Matt Slick Live (Guest Host Luke Wayne)

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to Matt Slick Live. I am Luke Wayne, filling in for Matt today, who had to be at a memorial service. So be in prayer for him and the family that he is serving there today. And meanwhile, I will be here with you guys taking your calls answering your questions.

So call us in at 877-207-2276. For those of you who are new to the show, we are a Christian apologetics program. Apologetics is the field in theology that concerns itself with the defense of the Christian faith. So we attempt to offer a reasoned response to objections to the Christian faith, to dive into difficult Bible passages, to analyze cults and false religions. You have questions about any of those things or some other relevant biblical topic, by all means call us in again at 877-207-2276. Before we go to the phones, if you guys could also be praying. Matt and I this morning were meeting with some of the missionaries over in Africa who partner with CARM and spreading the gospel and training believers, strengthening churches over in Africa, and were discussing, particularly in our brother in Malawi, there has been some serious floods there, villages whose homes, church buildings destroyed, washed away, lives have been lost, livelihoods destroyed, people who are currently living in tents and camps. Just be in prayer for the people of Malawi, our brothers and sisters in Christ, and their friends and neighbors and community.

Be in prayer for Malawi right now, we certainly are, and pray that you would be as well. During those conversations, we also, as is often the case, talking to our missionaries in Nigeria and other places, get onto the subject of Islam and what are the crucial differences between Islam and Christianity as Christians in Africa and other places of the Muslim-dominant world have to wrestle with those things and figure out the best way to share the gospel with Muslim neighbors and deal with Islamic objections to the Christian faith. And so we've been discussing those things, and one of the crucial points that I think every Christian anywhere in the world should know, so that you are ready to have a focused conversation if there's just one thing you're going to get the chance to talk about. There's a handful of things that you would want to make that point, and one of those crucial, crucial differences at the very heart of what makes Christianity true and Islam false is the cross of Christ. In the Qur'an, in Surah 4, verse 157 and 8, it says that—oh, my screen went down there, hold on just a second—it says that they said, "...we killed Christ Jesus, the Son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him. But it was made to appear to them so.

And those who differ therein are full of doubts, and no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow. For of surety they killed him not, nay, Allah raised him up unto himself, and Allah is exalted in power and wise." So again, that's in the Qur'an, Surah 4, 157, 158, denies not only that Jesus rose from the dead, but that Jesus died for our sins, indeed that he died at all on the cross. Instead, that he was caught up into heaven, and it was made to appear that he died on the cross. This, of course, undermines the entire Gospel. A Muslim cannot believe this and still accept that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried and that he rose again according to the Scriptures, as the Apostle Paul defines the Gospel in 1 Corinthians 15.

And so what is a Christian to say in response to this? Well, of course, we turn first and foremost to the Scriptures. We show how all of the first century documents, the books of the New Testament, all affirm the crucifixion, the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross, and his subsequent resurrection, that he did that for our sins, that this is the good news. And of course a Muslim is going to claim that the New Testament books, or some of them are not Scriptures, or that they've been corrupted, but we begin by letting the Word of God speak, turn there and show the consistent message, and that these are not only the Word of God, but that these are the first century documents, the eyewitnesses who knew these things. Beyond that, we could show, beyond having 27 unified first century documents, more than we have on pretty much anyone from the first century, that all tell us from all of these ancient writers that Jesus did die on the cross.

But we have others, other ancient sources. The Jewish non-Christian historian Josephus testifies that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as does the Roman historian Tacitus, a pagan who had no interest in Israel or their god, but still records this truth. We have early Christian writers outside the New Testament, such as Ignatius in the Epistle of Smyrnaens, chapter 1, which testifies plainly that Jesus was crucified, nailed to a cross, under Pontius Pilate. Clement of Rome, in chapter 7 of his letter, does the same. So, historically, it is undeniable that Jesus died on the cross.

These are only a few of even more sources we could turn to. But what's more, Muslims claim to believe that the Old Testament prophets were genuine prophets. And so, when we go and look, not only did Jesus die on the cross, but God said through his prophets that he would die on the cross. Isaiah 53 is my favorite place to demonstrate this. Surely, our grief was he himself bore, and our sorrows he carried, yet we ourselves esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities. The chastening of our well-being fell on him, and by his wounds we are healed. Well, it goes on to explain, and later in the chapter, verse 8 through 10, by oppression and judgment he was taken away. And as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?

The people should have died. He died instead. His grave was assigned with wicked men, yet he was with the rich man in his death, because he had done no violence, nor was there any deceit in his mouth. But the Lord was pleased to crush him, putting him to grief, if he would render himself a guilt offering, dying for our sins. This is what the prophets said would happen, what God said would happen through his prophets. And Isaiah 53, 12, says, Therefore I will allot him a portion with the great, and I will be able to bide booty with the spoiled, because he poured himself out to death, and was numbered with the transgressors, yet he himself bore the sin of many, and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors. What did Jesus do? He died, he died for sin, and afterward received an inheritance implying resurrection, death, burial, and resurrection, all in the prophets before it happened.

This was God's plan. So not only is it historically undeniable, it's prophetically undeniable. Beyond that, Jesus himself said that he would die. Mark 8, 31, And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. Or Mark 9, 31, For he was teaching his disciples, and telling them, The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he has been killed, he will rise three days later.

I could go on and on, example after example. Jesus prophesied his own death. So where does that put Islam? Islam claims, while they deny Jesus is the Son of God, they deny he is divine, they deny his death and resurrection, they claim he's a true prophet. Well, he prophesied repeatedly in every way possible over and over again, that he would die on the cross, be crucified, and rise again. Did he really mean crucifixion?

Yeah, Matthew 26, 1-2. When Jesus had finished all these words, he said to his disciples, You know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of Man is to be handed over for crucifixion. Jesus' repeated testimony was that he would die and rise again. If that did not happen, Jesus would have been a false prophet, in which case Islam would be false, because Islam says that Jesus is a true prophet. So Islam puts itself in this impossible position. If Jesus was crucified, the Qur'an is wrong, and therefore Islam is false. But if Jesus was not crucified, then Jesus is a false prophet, and therefore Islam is false. So whether Jesus was crucified or not crucified, Islam is false.

But the only reason that anyone would have to doubt that Jesus was crucified was because they're putting their trust in the Qur'an, because beyond that, all historical evidence, prophetic evidence, the evidence from Jesus himself, from Scripture, from history, everything tells us Jesus died for our sins, and conquered sin and death by rising again. And so this is something you can take to your Muslim friends and neighbors. Share with them and call on them to repent of idolatry and turn to the true and living God. Trust in the true Jesus and his sacrifice, the only redemption from sin that has ever been available, to call on the only name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Jesus. And so, as Islam's presence continues to rise, even here in the United States and the West, Christians should not meet that with fear, but instead as an opportunity to share the gospel, to reach this mission field with the message of Jesus' death and resurrection for his people. The gospel of grace alone, through faith alone, in the perfect sacrifice of Christ alone. And so this is something, again, that we are talking about with missionaries in Africa, to help train Christians to share their faith with their Muslim friends and neighbors there, and I hope you'll do the same here. And if you want to know more about these things, go to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and dive in.

We have a large number of articles on this and many other things you can share with your Muslim friends and neighbors to share the gospel. Okay, well that said, let's go to the phone. It looks like we've got Winfield from North Carolina. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show!

This is not Matt Slick, this is Luke Wayne again, filling in for Matt, who had to be out on the ministry need today. Be in prayer for him, but in the meantime, I'll be here taking your calls at 877-207-2276. So if you have any calls on Christian apologetics, on understanding the Scriptures, biblical interpretation, hermeneutics, church history, or cults and false religions, call in with your questions. We would love to talk. Speaking of which, we are going back to the phone now with Winfield from North Carolina.

Well, okay, and let's see, let's see, we've got a lot of stuff going on here. We had our Friday meeting last week, and as I asked before, I'm asking again if you'd be so kind as to consider praying for the missionaries that we have in Africa. We'd really appreciate that if you would.

They definitely need that prayer, and we'd value that if you would. By the way, just to let you know, we have open lines. Give me a call, 877-207-2276. And let's see, let's see, so I'm on a 90-day ban from YouTube on my Karm videos. I think I had a second infraction because I mentioned COVID stuff over the radio.

We've got an atheist guy, and the guy's helping me. Okay, I apologize to everybody. We are back and having a few technical difficulties with our lines today. So let me see if Winfield is still on with us. Winfield, are you there?

Yeah, I'm here. Okay, I apologize for all of that. Thank you for sticking with us. What's your question, Winfield?

No problem. All right, so in my younger days, which was a long time ago, but I was in the Church of Christ for a few years. And so they stress very much baptism, and that baptism is needed to be saved.

So I'm gone from that a long time ago. But still periodically, because of the teaching that I went through there, I'll read scriptures such as like Romans 6.3 and after that. And those scriptures still bother me today if I read through them, because it seems like, you know, it says like, or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into his death? So if you haven't been baptized, have you not been baptized into his death?

How do you guys, how do we deal with that? Well, first of all, just from a standpoint of logic, to say that those who have been baptized into Christ have been baptized into his death does not exclude salvation from those who have not been baptized. It doesn't say only those who have been baptized participate in the death of Christ in any way or anything like that. That's not the kind of statement being made here, even just on a straightforward reading without context. So it is talking about the meaning of baptism, but it's by no means stating baptism is necessary for salvation.

So let's look at what it is saying. So it says, what shall we say then, beginning at verse 1, are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be? How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into his death? Therefore, we have been buried with him in baptism, so that Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so that we too might walk in newness of light. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, certainly we shall be in the likeness of his resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with him in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin. For he who has died is freed from sin.

And so it is looking to the image of our baptism because of what that baptism represents, what it means. But when we are baptized into Christ, we are identifying with his death and his resurrection. And in so doing, we are making a statement about who we are in Christ. And someone who is saying, I have died with Christ, is not going to say, I will live to sin. What Paul's pointing out is that it's ludicrous to make the statement in baptism that I am dead in Christ and my life is now his. As Paul would write elsewhere, I am crucified with Christ, therefore it is not I, but Christ who lives this life I live in the body, I live by faith in the one who gave himself for me. When we look at Paul's language, which by the way, there, he's not talking about baptism. And so here, baptism is this public statement we have made of who we are in Christ. And as such, if I'm saying I have died with Christ, it is absurd for me to say I will live as a slave to sin. What Christ has done for us is his death and resurrection, not me going into water, that redeems me and saves me.

I mean, I definitely agree with that. I just, when I read these verses, I don't know what it says, it just bothers me. Because I read into them, and maybe, I don't know, if you have been baptized into Christ, you've been baptized into his death. But if you haven't been baptized, then have you been baptized into his death? I mean, that's the way, maybe I'm reading it wrong.

I don't know. I look at it that way. Well, if you haven't been baptized, have you been baptized into his death? Well, no, because you haven't been baptized. But that doesn't mean that you're not saved by his death. Okay.

I gotcha, okay. So it is certainly looking to baptism, which, let's face it, in the first century context, as you read through the New Testament, in that first generation, as people are coming to Christ through the preaching of the Gospel, and then being baptized, they're being baptized as an immediate response to the reception of the Gospel. And so there is an intimate personal connection to the memory of when I was baptized and why I was baptized, especially for those first century believers. And so, when we look at a passage like this, we certainly see a connection between someone's faith in the resurrection of Jesus and the expression of that in baptism. And so that when I'm baptized, and I'm baptized into Christ, I'm being baptized into his sacrificial death. Absolutely.

But that doesn't mean, baptized into his death doesn't mean you weren't saved until that moment you got into the water. We could talk more about that right after this break. Stay with me, Wentfield. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show!

This is Luke Wayne, filling in for Matt Slick. But give us a call here at 877-207-2276. We want to take your calls and answer your questions here today on scripture, doctrine, Christian apologetics, difficult challenges and answers to the faith, or your questions about cults and false religions.

So please, call on in, we'd love to hear from you guys. Now before we went to the break, I was talking with Wentfield from North Carolina about the subject of baptism, and whether Romans 6.4 teaches us that baptism is necessary for salvation. So Wentfield, you still with me? Yep, I'm here.

Okay. So, just to summarize for people who might just be joining the show, so what Wentfield and I were talking about, so the verse says, Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead, through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of light. And verse 3 before says, Or do you not know that all who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into his death? And so, Wentfield, if I'm representing you correctly, what concerns you, what raises gentle alarms in your mind when you get this passage is that, does that mean baptized into his death? Is that a synonym for salvation?

And is that saying that anyone who has not yet been baptized does not have the benefits of Christ's death? Is that correct? That's exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Perfect, perfect. And so, yeah, but, okay, okay, so again, what we're looking at here, to be baptized into Christ, to be baptized into his death, for us to assume baptized into Christ means you don't have the benefits of Christ until you've been baptized, or baptized into his death means you don't have, that's bringing an assumption, an assumed meaning, that the text doesn't give us. The text uses those phrases, baptized into Christ and baptized into his death, and if we take those and interpret baptized into to mean saved by, then sure, this verse would give us some problems there. But Paul's given us clear indication that that isn't what he's talking about, because even earlier in Romans, he's walked out for the chapters leading up to this, that we are saved, not, we are justified by faith, justified by grace through faith. So as Romans 3, 28-30 says, "...for we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of the Jews only?

Is he not the God of the Gentiles also? Yes, the Gentiles also, since God is one, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith." And so we see the argument when we start at chapter 1 and work our way through. Chapter 1 proves, all the way through the beginning of chapter 3, proves that everyone is equally guilty in sin.

Whether Jew or Gentile, whether you ever knew the law or didn't know the law circumcised or uncircumcised, were equally guilty in sin. And then he walks out through the rest of 3 on through 4 and 5, this truth that we are justified by grace alone through faith alone, not by works or rights or rituals or laws. And so for us to reach chapter 6 and to say that when he points to baptism, he's pointing it as a law that must be fulfilled to be saved, would undermine literally everything he's said up until this point. But instead if we just let it speak for itself, and look at what the whole of Scripture treats baptism as, and so we see that it is this outward expression of an inward reality that's already occurred. You know, in Acts 10, when Peter's preaching to Cornelius and the people believe his gospel, and God fills them with the Holy Spirit already without baptism, Peter recognizes that that's a sign that God has already accepted them, granted them repentance and faith unto eternal life, and then says after that, who can refuse water, that these would be baptized? He's recognizing that baptism is an outward expression that follows the salvation that has already occurred. And we see that consistently through Acts, through the way that Paul communicates the gospel in all of his letters, even through Jesus, when people ask, what work must I do in eternal life? And he says, this is the work that you believe. God loved the world in this way, that he sent his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life, not the ones that believe who go on to be baptized, but all who believe in him.

Whoever believes will have eternal life. And of course, this is illustrated in the most popular example that people turn to, when you see the man who was executed next to Jesus, who expressed his faith in Jesus, and that he would come into his kingdom, he expressed his trust in Jesus as the Messiah and the Son of God. And what did Jesus say to that man who did not get off that cross and go get baptized?

This day you will be with me in paradise. And so we do see the consistent teaching of the New Testament is that baptism is important. Every believer should get baptized. But that's not because you need to do that in addition to Christ to save yourself. But it is, baptism is, an expression of our identification with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And as such, if I am in his death, if I am in his resurrected life, that as Paul argues here, I ought not, it would be inconsistent, foolish, to live as if I'm still a slave to sin.

For a free man whose chains have been knocked off to stay out there working his old master's field under his old master's whip, and to not go and live out his freedom that he's been given, would be ludicrous. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, it doesn't make sense. I think periodically I have to rehash this in my mind just because of the teaching I had when I was younger. Oh, I understand.

Chapter 6 is, so chapter 5 of Romans, you have to read chapter 6 under the relationship of chapter 5, 1. Oh, went to you, are you still there? Yeah, can you hear me?

You're coming through real quiet at the moment. Can you hear me now? Okay, yes, yes. Yes, no, no, that's fine. So sorry, please continue. Yeah, I think that, I think when you said, you know, we have to read chapter 6 in the light of chapter 5, so chapter 5, 1, therefore I've been justified by faith, that helps.

But periodically I have to rehash this in my mind because of what I've been taught. I completely understand, and so call back any time, would love to chat with you more on any of those other passages you hit that stir this back up, and we're always here to chat with you. Cool. Appreciate it. Have a good weekend. God bless. Yeah, you too.

You too. Okay, that was Winfield in North Carolina. We'll be going back to the phones in just a moment, but first, if you want to get in line and have your question answered, call us in at 877-207-2276. Let's go back to the lines with Mark in Virginia. Mark, you are on the air. Oh, we lost Mark.

Okay. Well, then we are going to Carl in South Carolina. Carl, you are on the air.

Hi, Luke. Luke, I got a question in regards to the children of Israel returning back to Israel from all over the world. Are these people who are saved, do they have salvation or not?

I'm sorry? Please repeat your question. I'm not sure I understood it. The question is, would the return of when they say the children of Israel are returning back all around the world, from the east, from the north, south, to the west, are these people, these Jews, are they believers of Christ? Do they have salvation? What passage are you talking about? Well, it's in multiple passages when the Jews return.

When they talk about the large influx of the children of Israel returning back... Oh, we're coming up on a break. If you can hold for me for just a bit, Carl, I will get right back with that, and you guys get in line. We've got some open lines at 87072276, and we will be back with you after this break. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 8772072276. This is Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show.

This is Luke Wayne again, filling in for Matt Slick here on this Friday of February 4th. Happy to be here with you guys. We do have an open line.

You guys can call in at 8772072276. We would love to answer your questions. We are jumping back on with Carl from South Carolina, who had a question about passages related to the return of Israel. Carl, are you still with me? Yeah, Luke, I am.

Okay, so we were just starting to talk before the break hit, and so if you could just... I apologize, I know you had to repeat it, but just restate your question so I can try to zero in there with you. The question was, it's in a lot of passages, in Revelation, I believe Isaiah, and even more, but it has to do with the return of the children of Israel back to Israel. And they were talking about returning back from the north, the south, the east and the west. Are these people who are returning, do they have salvation? Are they faith, are they believers in Christ, or are they of the old Jewish faith and Hebrew faith? Well, without having a specific reference to look at, I wouldn't be able to give a blanket statement that every passage that mentions north, south, east and west is definitely talking about this group of people or that group of people.

But I can pull up a couple examples that we can look at that will show us some of the ways that this language is used, because it is used in more than one way. So in Psalm 107, for example, says, "'O give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, for his lovingkindness is everlasting. Let the redeemed of the Lord say so, whom he has redeemed from the hand of the adversary, and gathered from the lands, from the east and from the west, from the north and from the south. They wandered in the wilderness in a desert region.

They did not find a way to an inhabited city. They were hungry and thirsty, their soul fainted within them. Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble, and he delivered them out of their distress." In this case, the literal, historic meaning of this has to do with the people being in the past, people being literally physically delivered from their adversaries and brought back to the safety of their land. And so there have been times, obviously the Babylonian exile and God brought the people back to the land, but even before that, portions of Israel were briefly given over to enemies and brought back, and so there is prophecy and fulfillment and celebration of those literal times where the physical people were driven from the physical land and then brought back to that land and were protected by God and his faithfulness shown through that. Now that language is used to look forward to the ultimate redemption, and so I don't think it's completely divorced from salvation. But it doesn't mean that literally every person that God brought physically out of exile is also eternally saved. But to give it a New Testament example of where that language is used as a picture of our future hope to come, in Luke 13, we read, picking up in part of verse 28, where it talks first about the fate of those in judgment, in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth that says, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God, but you yourself being thrown out, and they will come from east and west and from north and south and will recline at the table in the Kingdom of God, and behold, some who are last will be first and some who are first will be left. And so there is this rebuke on the Pharisees saying that God is bringing a people into the eternal Kingdom who will dwell forever with him and with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and the prophets and all the redeemed of old, and that you false-teaching Pharisees will be cast out of all of that. And you will look on and see those who you think you are more righteous and better than you, that they, because they received Christ, will be saved, and because you rejected Christ, you will be cast out of that. So in this context, the gathering in of those from east and west and north and south absolutely is, it's salvifically, into the Kingdom. So it varies based on the passage that you're talking about and its individual context, but that language of bringing people back from physical exile is often used to point forward to the ultimate redemption, when we will be brought back from sin and death itself to live forever in the Kingdom of God, if we have put our trust and our faith in Christ. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, that does. Does it answer your question, or am I kind of missing what you were hoping for?

I understand what you're saying. I was just under the impression of, in a sense of prophecy in the future, to be fulfilled about how the people of, you know, the Jews themselves, are brought back, you know, in this migration, and we always think of, you know, the north being Europe and east being maybe, you know, Russia and south, they always talk about Africa and a lot of people who are of Jewish faith coming back, actually physically coming back to Israel, and these are signs of, you know, the closer return of Christ and setting up his Kingdom. And that was the question, like, okay, are these people who are practicing Jewish faith, are they also receiving Christ before they return or have this faith that, okay, their salvation is through Christ alone, and they have become part of the brethren? Or are they still just lost, you know, the Jews that are lost but have not received Christ, and they'll receive Christ when they return physically on this prophecy? And I think this prophecy is mentioned in Revelation, but I've seen it in Isaiah also, and I'm sure it's in other ones in the Old Testament too.

Yeah, if you had a specific passage that I could look at the context of, I would be in a much better position to answer your question. I am of the position, personally, that Romans 11, for example, does foretell a time before the end when there will be a great harvest among ethnic Israel, and the people, the covenant people of God according to the flesh, will be drawn back in to the new and better covenant in Christ. But they will be saved because they are coming in faith to Christ. So anyone who is saved, whether Jew or Gentile, is saved only, only because they have turned and put their trust in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. And so whatever one might see in prophecy about a future for Jews and what view you might take on the literal, physical land of Israel or anything like that, anyone who will be saved, they will be saved because, not because they've returned to a zealous commitment to an old covenant faith that does not include trusting in the fulfillment of that faith in Christ. If they are saved, they are saved because they are coming in genuine faith and repentance, trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, and trusting that he is the Messiah and Lord, the Son of God. And I personally believe that we are, maybe not we, I'm not predicting what time period this will happen at, but that the day will come that there will be a great turn among ethnic Israel to Christ, and that I think, as I understand Romans 11, that it is laid out there that the branches have been cut off, the Gentiles grafted in, but part of the purpose in that is to provoke the Jews, the people of ethnic Israel, to jealousy for their God that ultimately, in the end, they would be drawn back in. And so that doesn't mean every Israelite who's ever lived will be saved, of course, but it does mean, I think, before the end that there will be a great turning of Israel in the physical, ethnic sense back to a God through Christ, through the only way one can come to God, the way and truth and the life that no one can come to the Father except for him. So again, I can't point to the specific passages you're talking about without having them open in front of me, but I do think that ultimately there will be a great salvation among the Jews, if that in any way helps answer your question.

Yeah, that does, and that's how I kind of believe, and when I read Scripture and through Scripture and the Holy Spirit, that's what my heart believes, too. So I appreciate your input. And no problem. No problem. Do you have any other questions?

Anything else? No, no, that's good. Thank you. God bless you. Okay. Thank you, too.

You have a wonderful day, Carl. Bye-bye. Okay.

All right. And you know, that's... The interpretation of prophecy can sometimes lead us into divided camps, and that's good.

We should dive deeper into those things. We should strive together as believers to dig into the Scriptures and understand every word that God has spoken, everything that the prophets and the apostles have written down and preserved for us. And yet as we do that, as we journey in the Scriptures together and do the labor of learning the word of the Lord through it all, that core truth will see over and over again. Whatever book you're in, whatever you're reading, it's going to draw you back to that fact that Jew or Gentile, slave or free, man or woman, rich or poor, ancient or modern, whatever your background, wherever you're coming from, you have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Sin is the breaking of God's law. We are cosmic criminals before our Creator, and we deserve His punishment, which is torment forever in hell. That is just, that is right, and that is the judgment that God has laid out for all who die and remain in their sin. And yet God is a loving God, and He has not left us to the inevitable fate that we deserve because of our sin, but has provided a way of escape.

God sent His very eternal Word, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, God in flesh, who came and did what we cannot do, lived a perfect life, fulfilled the law, fulfilled all righteousness, deserved nothing, no pain, no death, and yet stood in our place and took upon Himself for all who will repent and believe, took the just punishment on Himself and suffered death, even death on a cross. We began this show talking about the cross as it relates to Islam, and we end here back on the cross, the only way of salvation. Put your trust in Jesus today. Have a great weekend, and we look forward to having Matt back on and talking with you guys again come Monday. God bless. God bless.