Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created in about the issue of baptism and maybe that person will call and we can discuss the issue of baptism. Is it necessary for salvation? And the answer, of course, is no, it's not. A lot of false teachers out there say that it is, but it is not necessary for salvation.

You should be baptized, but it is not the thing that makes us right before God. It's our faith in Christ and what he has done. So that's a topic worth discussing. We had a meeting today also in CARM on social media stuff, and I'll tell you, there's a lot to learn.

Oh, you can't hear, I gotta fix that in the audio. There's a lot to cover in the issue of social media. Like I said, we had a big meeting today and it went a lot longer than I thought it was gonna go, which is fine. But what we're gonna be doing in CARM is trying to, trying to relate to people on different levels, different ways. You know, the Bible says make disciples of all nations. And to do that, what we have to do is reach out in all cultures and times in different ways. And a lot of people get stuck in their ways and they say, no, I'm only gonna witness this way or I'm only gonna teach this way or I'm only gonna do something this way or that way.

I think it's unfortunate. I think that what we should be doing as Christians is adapting to the best that we can without compromising the word of God. And so we're gonna be getting into avenues like TikTok and LinkedIn and Instagram and others.

Twitch, we're gonna be trying to make inroads in there, to try and get the gospel presented. You know, it's one thing to become an expert at something. You know, I was watching TV a little bit today, took a break, relaxed, and I was watching some guy play the piano, and I'm not knocking playing the piano.

I think it's great, you know. But I started thinking, would it be something I'd wanna do, just learn how to master the piano? And to me, the answer is no. Because in my view, just me, I wanna do whatever I can to further the kingdom of God. And so I'd rather personally spend time learning apologetics, learning theology, learning various things to learn how to answer questions and find ways to spread that gospel message out there. Now that's just me, you know, that's not everybody.

I'm not saying mine's the right one, yours isn't. Sometimes people playing the piano can glorify God a very great way, and they can minister to people with that. And that's fine, no problem, praise God. It's just that some of us have different callings and different things, and that's what was on my mind. I was thinking about that and going, you know, just more and more, I wanna serve God and I want to do what he wants. And as I'm, you know, in my 60s now, pushing 70 here in a few years, I want to be able to just do more and more for him. And that's all, you know, it's simple. But maybe you could, you know, lift up calm in this ministry, in prayer.

And so we're talking about what kind of things to do today, as a matter of fact. But let me give you the number out again. I want you to give me a call, okay, 877-207-2276.

We have five calls, five open lines, so no one's waiting right now. I want you to call me. And so we're talking about different things to reach out.

One of them is to do short videos, answering questions, and put them up on Instagram and use hashtags and try and reach out and use any and every venue that I can. In fact, for Christmas, my wife, knowing that her husband is a tech nerd, got me an Oculus, you know, that's the O-C-U-L-U-S. For those who don't know what that is, it's a big headset with a big thing in front of the eyes. And you can enter into these virtual worlds. And so I got it hooked up to my computer. And so I went in, and first time that was yesterday, I went into some Christian chat rooms that there are out there in the virtual realm.

And that was great. I went into a room where a lot of unbelievers were. And so tried to witness to them, you know, appropriately and stuff. It's just, there is just a way to witness, in my opinion, anywhere and everywhere, under the right circumstances.

I mean, you're doing open heart surgery on somebody you don't want to witness to the nurse next to you, generally speaking. You want to do whatever you can to do your job, and you should. But I think as Christians, we're obligated to reach out. You know, as I'm reminded of Matthew, the commission of Jesus. You know, go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you.

And lo, I'm with you always, even to the end of the age. You know, that commission, the great commission in Matthew 28, 19, and 20, that thing has echoed in my heart a lot more lately than the past few years. What's the purpose of our living? Is there an ultimate purpose? Are there multiple purposes? Well, you know, we can desire to have a family and raise godly children and be productive in society, and these are all good godly things to do.

They are. But ultimately, we're to make disciples of all nations. This is what Jesus said at the last thing. He says, but the 11 disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.

When they saw him, they worshiped him, but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you, and lo, I'm with you always, even to the end of the age. And so, that's what Jesus told us to do.

He did not tell us, not that he doesn't want to, but he did not tell us, raise big families, build skyscrapers, go to the moon. He didn't say that, but he did say, make disciples of all nations. And when he said this, he was saying this to those disciples, and of course, it's a commission to all of us Christians who are all over the world in all times and in all cultures. And so, in the situation that we find ourselves to be, we are to make disciples of everybody, everybody that we can. A disciple is not someone who's just aware, but someone who's following, and we want them to follow Jesus. And that's what we want to do as Christians, to have people follow him. We should be praying for that, and we should ask God to use us for that as well. We need to follow him in that great commission.

Again, I'm not knocking doing other things. Of course we are, because sometimes making disciples of all nations means to build farms, irrigation systems, et cetera, in order to give to those people the things they need along with the spiritual needs that they have. But that's been on my mind a lot, and particularly as I get older, and just recently turned 65, and the things that associate that with that and come with that. You know, my death is approaching, and I'll enter into the Lord's presence, and I want to serve him as much as I can now, be in shape and think clearly and expand the opportunities to witness and to teach. This is something that God wants us to do.

Now here's something about that I want to tell you. If you look at those verses, the last three verses of the book of Matthew, the last three verses in the book of Matthew, and you look at that, and you take them seriously. It doesn't mean you have to drop everything and go to the corner and start yelling at people to drive by about Jesus.

You don't want to do that. But the idea of implementing this in the way that God would want you to, I firmly believe that if you seek to do exactly what God has told you to do, that he'll bless you. Now I'm not saying that blessing's gonna be with lots of money flowing out of the heavens, as some positive confession wackos will teach.

You know, God wants you healthy and wealthy. Not always, because making disciples of all nations can mean adopting poverty and living with people who don't know the gospel, who don't have much. And there have been many missionaries all over the world throughout history who've done that, who've gone to foreign nations, risked life and limb and safety and health.

Many have died in the process, and many have been successful in the process. But to make disciples is something that we are called to do. We can do it in our homes, in our work. We can do it in different ways, and we ought to do it. We ought to gear our hearts, our minds, for the ultimate purpose of glorifying the Lord God, but to carry out the great commission that Christ has given to us as followers. And how we do that, that's gonna be tough.

But anyway, it's just something. So we're reaching out in different ways. We're gonna maybe try and get a seminar going in Salt Lake City here in the next few months. We're gonna be trying to do online seminars as well. We're gonna try to reach out in different social media outlets and do what we can in order to reach out.

All right, just thinking out loud. Now look, we've got some callers here, and I'm gonna take those calls, but I wanna let you know that next week we're gonna have one of the CARM employees, one of the CARM staffers, Luke Wayne. He's gonna be doing the radio show, and he'll be doing it for all next week.

And this is for the purpose of discipling and increasing CARM's ability to reach. We don't want everybody to be dependent upon me for all kinds of stuff. Luke is a great guy, and you'll enjoy him. He's got good answers, and he answers things differently in a different way than I do. We see almost eye-to-eye on almost everything, and that he's fine, he disagrees with me on things.

That's fine. But he's got a lot of good information, and so I want you to save your questions for him as well, or ask me now here today. But also, be patient with him, and next week call him up and say, hey, Luke, read some of your articles on CARM, and like what you're doing and appreciate you, and things like that. I'm sure he's a little nervous about doing this. I remember the first day when I sat down to do radio 17 years ago in a radio studio, and sat down with a mic in front of me, and I had to do an hour. It was not exactly the easiest thing, especially since the calls didn't come in, because it was the first day, and people were like, who is this guy, what's going on? It was tough, but that's how it is.

Yeah, I was nervous, but it took about 20 minutes, and then I just felt at home, I just felt comfortable. It's not that big a deal doing radio. I try to get my wife on radio to do things and talk. She has a great radio voice and a good radio presence. She's quite gifted at it, actually, and she just refuses.

And so if I want more sandwiches and smooching, I can't push that with her. Man, life is tough. All right, hey, give me a call.

Three open lines, 877-207-2276. Claudio, welcome, you're on the air. Yes, sir, good evening. Happy New Year to you, and I'm a blessing to your wife. You too, thank you.

I have a friend who feels that. Oh, man, really great. Can you hold on, Claudio? Sorry about that, we've got a break, all right? I'll get right back to you after these messages. So folks, please stay tuned, we'll be right back. And give us a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Welcome back, everyone, we have three open lines.

Why don't you give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get back to Claudio. All right, Claudio, welcome back. We have three open lines.

Why don't you give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get back to Claudio. All right, Claudio, welcome. You're back on the air. Yes, sir, good evening.

My name is Claudio Swilson. Okay. I have a discussion with a friend who believes that the world today, you have to enjoy yourself and them after you died. It's nothing after that. And I said, then the Bible is absolutely wrong because the Bible talks about eternal life and eternal punishment. And I told him, I said, how much can you enjoy yourself here?

What can you do if even you have like $100 million, what would you do with it? I said, there is nothing much you can do. I said, because it's all about time.

It's time you're going to die. It's already marked by God and you're going to die and whatever you have done for the world or for Jesus, that's what's going on in there. You've got to believe in Jesus, that Jesus died for you and it's the only way to eternal life. But he just didn't believe about that. He just believed that you need to enjoy yourself, have a good time and drink and do stuff.

So I don't want to have your opinion on what you think. So when I encounter people who say that kind of a thing, I say, so you're selfish. So you just enjoy yourself because it's about yourself because there's no real consequences in the afterlife. It's about what you want and so that's your opinion. That's your attitude, right? Now try to get the understanding of being selfish and stuff like that. Enjoy yourself.

You might as well do by yourself. And sometimes you might say, well, you help others. And I'll say, well, why? Why help others if you're just going to die?

It doesn't really make any difference. Why don't you just do something that we would agree is wrong and then you just go have one way? So just work with them in that and show that their position, really, you know, has some problems. But one of the things I'll also say to them is, I'll say, well, how do you know that there's nothing after death? You just believe it. What do you base this? Your own experience but you've not experienced the afterlife. So you have no idea what it is.

You just think it is and say it is probably so you can enjoy yourself and do what you want yourself because you're selfish. That's another way. Another something I'll say is, there's only two possibilities for you after death, existence or non-existence. There's only two possibilities. You'll continue to exist or it's not the case that you'll continue to exist. If you stop continuing existing, you'll never know it. But the only thing you could know is continuation of existence. You would never know anything else. So you don't know if that's the case.

So what you've got to worry about is continuing, not not continuing, because that's a real possibility, especially since Jesus Christ rose from the dead and he warned us about what's in the afterlife when we move into the gospel, that kind of stuff, okay? Thank you, sir. Does that help?

Absolutely. I told him, I said, the real joy in your life here is to do something good for somebody who cannot be turned back to you. I said, that's what you're going to enjoy. By putting on expensive clothes and buying nice cars and everything, I said, you're not going to have any more fun about it.

You have some day or two that you drive the car, but you look at me, it's already an old car anyway. Right. Well, a lot of times people who deny God's existence, not always, but a lot of people who deny God's existence in an afterlife do so because they want to serve themselves, their own flesh, their own desires, their own wants, their own sins.

They don't want to be accountable, and an afterlife would mean there's a consequence. So we say, oh, okay, you just want to do what you want to do now, right? All right.

And then we talk about the morality of what to do. Thank you very much, sir. Have a blessed day. You're welcome. Well, God bless, Gladio. God bless. All right. If you want to give me a call, folks, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276.

Four open lines. I'm dragging a little bit because I'm fighting something. Get a bit of a chest cold. And, you know, it happens.

I get this about once a year, so I think I'm due. And it coincidentally works out because next week, Luke Wayne will be filling in for me. He's on the CARM staff, and he'll be doing the radio show for five whole days. Oh, wow, Luke Wayne. And he'll do a good job.

I have confidence in him. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get to Winfield.

No, someone from Winfield, North Carolina, I guess. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how are you?

A little tired, to be honest, but I'm hanging in there. So what do you got? Yeah, my name is Winfield, actually. Okay, good. All right.

Family name. Okay. So what do you got, ma'am? So I'm struggling with Galatians 5, 4. Okay. When it basically says that, you know, you have been severed from Christ. Uh-huh. Or you have fallen from grace.

Right. So the way I interpreted it, and maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly, but to me, how do you fall from grace? How do you fall from something that you didn't have? So I understand that John, in John, says, you know, Jesus can't lose anybody. Wait, wait, wait.

You said, how can you fall from something you don't have? That's not what the text is saying. Grace is the unmerited favor of God, and God is gracious to everybody. He's gracious to the unbelievers, because they're allowed to enjoy the sun and the rain and families and safety and food and enjoyment, entertainment. And so God is gracious to them in that way.

Certainly. That's Matthew 5, 43 through 48. There's the kind of gracious movement that God has upon those whom are believers. And that's a saving grace, a saving movement of God. But what does it mean here to be fallen from grace?

Does it mean that they were saved? Is that what you're worried about? Well, I mean, that's what I'm looking at. I mean, that's when I read it. Well, let's look at the text. Okay, now notice what it says. If I read the text, you have been severed from Christ. You who are seeking to be justified by law, you have fallen from grace. Right. So I understand the point where you would say that, well, you know what, if you're trying to be justified by the law, and I think, correct. I comprehend that. But when I read it, it seems to me that you have fallen.

Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. If they're seeking to be justified by the law, are they Christians? No, but could they have been Christians? The way I read it, and again, I may be wrong. I'm reading it as they were Christians. They were part of the Galatian church. Maybe they were Jewish Christians. And now they're being deceived by someone else.

Let's do this. Let's look at the context in the text. So Galatians 5.1, it was for freedom that Christ set us free.

Therefore, keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. But he's writing to the Galatian church. Let me ask you a question. Is every person in the Galatian church born again Christian? What would you say? Not. Probably not. There are probably a lot of unbelievers mixed up in there.

People who are going through rituals and laws, a lot of them being Jewish people. We'll get back to this after the break. Hey folks, we have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show, one open line, 877-207-2276. We'll get to Winfield again. You still there?

Yes, I'm here. All right. So we're going through the text verse by verse. It was for freedom that Christ set us free.

Therefore, keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold, I, Paul, say that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. This means that in Galatia there were Jews who had heard the message of the truth and were saying, well, this is good, but you've got to be circumcised.

They're back under the law. They don't understand the Gospel yet because they want to do something in the law. It sounds to me like they're saying that to the Gentile priests. Yes, they want the Gentiles to become circumcised. They're called the Judaizers. And so the Judaizers are the ones saying this is why you need to be circumcised.

They're giving a defense. They're trying to convict people and convince people about getting circumcised. And Paul is trying to work with them because he says in Galatians 3, 1, You foolish Galatians, whose bewitched you before, whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.

This is the only thing I want to find out from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish having begun by the Spirit or are you now being perfected by the flesh? So Paul is trying to tell people, no, it's justification by faith, not justification by any ceremony that you do, even if it's a ceremony commanded by God in the Old Testament covenant, actually. He says, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision. Now you're under obligation to keep the whole law. They don't understand.

His teaching is correcting. You could have somebody who's received Christ back then and would get circumcised because they think they've got to do that to be right with God. It doesn't mean they're not saved. It means they're ignorant. It could mean they're not saved depending on a few things in their heart and awareness. But the idea here is, well, wait a minute.

I could hear them, well, I got circumcised because they said to. And then Paul comes along and says, no, no, no, you don't do that to get saved. And the guy goes, oh, that's right.

I get it now. It doesn't mean he suddenly became saved. The idea is faith in Christ, but people can be saved at different levels of ignorance, not that it's okay to be ignorant, but God is very gracious.

You can have people in the mixture of the Galatian church, believers and unbelievers. And he's speaking generically. He's writing to them generically. He's got to speak generically. Everyone who receives circumcision is under obligation to keep the whole law. He's trying to convince them.

You can't do that. And he says, you've been severed from Christ. I noticed the word severed in relationship to circumcision. To get the pun, that's what he's talking about. Right, right.

Yeah. And he says, you are seeking to be justified by the law. Now, wait a minute. True Christians don't seek to be justified by the law. They're not true believers.

This is my problem. In verse 1, it was the freedom that Christ set us free. Therefore, keep standing firm and do not be subject again to the yoke of slavery. But to me, it seems like, again, maybe I'm reading it wrong. To me, it seems like some of them were doing the correct thing.

They believed in faith. And now they may be going back and saying, oh, wait a second. Maybe I need to get circumcised. That's what I was just saying. Maybe I need to get baptized or whatever.

That's what I was saying. They're ignorant and or confused thinking they've got to do something to be right with God. And Paul's saying, look, it's for freedom that Christ set us free. Keep standing in that.

Don't go back to old laws. He's counseling them. So is he saying in verse 4, you have been severed from Christ. You have fallen from grace. At that point, the question is, can you fall from grace?

Well, of course. Right there it says, you've fallen from grace. So why would you ask, is it possible to fall from grace? It says, you have fallen from grace.

So yeah. So then, so once they've always saved, it's not true. You can fall from. You can say fallen from grace means you're saved. Where does it mean that they're saved? So you're saying that grace here is not salvation's grace.

No, no, no. I'm not saying it's not. I'm saying, where does it say in the Bible that the phrase means what people are assuming it means? I'm just saying, show it to me in Scripture. Show me in the Scripture where the phrase fallen from grace means you're saved. It doesn't mean you are saved. It doesn't mean you're not saved.

I'm just saying, show it to me. Because we need Scripture to interpret Scripture. That's the principle. So someone may say, well, it means you've lost your salvation.

Where does it say that? That means that's what grace is, is salvation. Well, salvation is a gracious act, but so is the grace of God to let the unbeliever have a life of peace and love. That's also gracious because grace is unmerited favor.

That happens to everybody by God's sense. Now, what's He mean here? That's the question. You've fallen from grace. Does it mean that those who are seeking... What does grace mean here?

Is this grace the grace that saves, or is this a different type of grace? Exactly. That's the question, right?

That's the right question to ask. And because of this context, we can't know for sure. Because it says you've been severed from Christ. Well, does He mean you are in Christ? Because why would He use the word severed? Well, some people would say it's the severed from Christ that means you've lost your salvation. You're no longer in Christ. But it doesn't say you're severed from being in Christ because being in Christ has to do with federal headship.

Severed from Christ. Okay, what does that mean? And I'm not trying to be difficult. It's just, what does it mean? People read into things so quickly, and they, oh, it means you've done your salvation.

Where does it say that? What does it mean to be severed from Christ? I have to ask the question, and what I would do is look at that word in Greek, which is Greek 2673, and I would go do a word study on it and see how God uses it.

2673, and it occurs 27 times, which is three times three times three. And I'd say, how does it work? How does God use it? And I would have to look. Is there another word, I mean, is there a case where it's used in the same kind of context to see the similarity of thought? This is how we do hermeneutics, the interpretation. We don't just assume it means something, particularly when it says you're seeking to be justified by the law. Well, wait a minute.

Here's a serious question. Since when is any Christian ever seeking to be justified by his works? It just doesn't add up. So this is a tough verse. You've been severed from Christ. If he's speaking generally to a bunch of people, there's believers and non-believers, you've been severed from Christ. You're supposed to be walking with him. You're supposed to be enjoying his presence. Well, you've been severed because you've received circumcision, severed circumcision.

It's a direct pun. Seeking to be justified by the law, you've fallen from grace. Now look at verse 12. I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. That's what he says, mutilate themselves.

That's exactly what he's saying. He says they're troubling you. He's saying there are Judaizers who are troubling you trying to get you to go back under the law. You've been severed from Christ.

You who are seeking to be justified by the law. That's not the Christians, that's the Jews. They've fallen from that gracious movement of God upon them to reveal to them who the Messiah really was. That they have abandoned the truth of the Messiah and justification by faith and have gone back to the law. Demonstrating that they were never saved to begin with.

1 John 2.19. They went out from us because they never were of us. If they had been of us, they would have remained. Okay? There's more. You see what's going on? So do you think that if someone is a Christian who believes that they could lose their salvation, is that something that would make them lose? No. The thing is when people tell me that they can lose their salvation and they say they're Christians, I say, okay, well, can you give me a list of the things you've got to do to keep yourself right with God?

And I have my hands on my laptop or my keyboard, please tell me. Well, you know, you've got to do this, this. I say, give me three or four things. You've got to believe, you've got to do good, you can't do bad.

You know, whatever it is. So, oh, you're saved by your works. No, but by my faith that works. Faith that works.

I want you to play this game. Well, the Bible says we're justified by faith without the works of the law. Romans 3.28. It does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly. His faith is credited as righteousness. So that's what a true Christian is. Romans 4.5 just said that. So that's what a true Christian is. These who are seeking to be justified by the law, they're not saved. They're Judaizers who are trying to influence the Galatians who don't know any better. Paul is, he's strong with them. Just as Jesus was strong, you whitewashed supplicers. You're vipers.

You're your father, the devil. Okay? Paul. Right. But if someone believed that, if someone believed that they could... We've got to break, man. We've got to break. Hold on. Sorry, buddy.

We've got to break. Hold on. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Hope this is interesting. We'll be right back.

All right, buddy, welcome back to the show, Winfield. Let's see if we can wrap this up on this segment here. Yes.

So, go ahead. Yeah, I don't want to take up any more time. So, I mean, my last question would just be that, as far as once saved, always saved, and salvation, if someone believes that they can rue their salvation, that doesn't mean that they're not saved. Right? It's not a... Not automatically. Right. But it would mean that if they thought that they achieve or maintain salvation through their goodness in cooperation with God.

So, a lot of people might be driving down the road thinking, wait a minute, what's he saying? Well, this is what I'm saying. If you believe you can lose your salvation, it doesn't mean you're not a Christian. But it would mean you're not a Christian or you're under incredible error if you teach that your goodness of doing what's right keeps you saved. If that's the case, then that's a false gospel. Yeah. Well, I know that, for me, there's no way. That's right.

I know the only way I'm getting to heaven is be with Jesus. That's it. That's what I've done. But, anyway, I was just curious. I'm just struggling with it. Well, we know that, for example, in John 6, 37 through 40, Jesus says he'll lose none of the will of the fathers. Of all that he's given him, he will lose none and raise him up from the last day. Jesus always has the will of the father in John 8, 30. So, Jesus can't lose any.

Simple. So, we know that Galatians 5, 4 is not talking about eternal security. It's talking about the Judaizers seeking to put people back under the law and Paul putting them in their place. You've been severed from Christ and you've fallen from grace. You, who are seeking to be saved by what you do, how good you are, et cetera.

And those are obviously false believers, okay? Gotcha. Okay, buddy. I appreciate it. Thank you. I really appreciate you. All right. Well, hey, God bless. All right. Let's get to Aaron from Washington.

Aaron, welcome. You're on the air. So, my question was… You're breaking up. What? Oh, sorry.

The discussion forum. You're breaking up. I can't understand you. I cannot understand you. Okay. Okay.

Let's try it one more time. Okay. Sorry.

Aaron, I can't understand you. Why don't you call back? Okay.

We'll get you right back on. Okay. Call back.

See if you've got any questions. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Aaron, why don't you call back?

See if you've got a better connection. All right. All right, buddy? Okay. You bet. All right. Bye.

Okay. Let's get to Doreen from San Marcos, California. Hey, guess what, Doreen?

I used to live in Escondido right there off the 78. I know, Matt. We know each other personally. I attended your cult class. Okay.

Matt, hi. I know. I attended your cult class at New Life Presbyterian. Oh, really?

We went to the Mormon service together. Yeah. I'm trying to remember. Wow. You're still down there in San Marcos. It was a long time ago. Yeah, it was.

I've been up here in Idaho for 17 years. Wow. Yeah. That's nice.

A long time ago. San Marcos is nice. I like it. Say hi to your beautiful wife for me. Oh, yeah.

She's still beautiful. I'm not. Okay. I know. I know your children, too.

I have a quick question about... Sure. I'm witnessing to a gal right now online about... she denies being in the United Pentecostals. She denies the deity of Christ, speaks in tongues.

Okay. And I've given her all the Scriptures. You taught me well in your cult class, Matt. Wow.

Thanks, Matt. But what I'm looking for, she claims that Scripture has been translated improperly in regards to the deity of Christ. If there's any resources that I can send her that would deny the resources that she's obviously looking at. You know, off the top of my head, I don't know any resources that deal with this issue of translation.

Now, Westminster's Theological Seminary right there in Escondido is a place you can go to and ask one of the professors if they would have information and books in the library and people who teach Greek. So translation is different. So a lot of times what people do is they think that... well, let me put it this way.

They have a hobby horse they're on they don't want to get off, they don't care about facts. It's often the case when it comes with the Bible and so they'll say it's translated incorrectly. To translate means from one language to another language. So yo tengo hombre in Spanish is I have hunger. That's a literal translation but we just say I'm hungry. And so that's a... actually, literally that's what's called an interpretation because it's spoken. Translation is written to one written language to another. And so, for example, the Greek New Testament is in Greek and it's translated directly from those documents into English. And those documents are highly repetitive and thousands of copies all around so that they match. So it's not an issue of are they reliable, because they are, it's not an issue of are they accurate, they are, and it's not an issue of translation because we can translate.

I mean I had four and a half years of Greek in college and in some... Right. And so I can tell you that's what it says.

She's not going to be mean but she's speaking out of incredible ignorance. I agree. Okay alright, thank you. What church are you going to now? God bless. What church? I am actually going to a Reformed Baptist church, Grace.

Okay. Yeah, I missed San Diego for so long, you know, when I got here to Idaho and my wife and I would just, you know, we'd see something about San Diego or Corona, you know, the bridge and, you know, I've been back to seminary a few times looking and it just, you know, memories. I went to San Marcos a lot and had some friends out there and stuff. So you know, it's good. Yeah, we're here. We're still hanging in here. There are still some strong churches here so... Yeah, yeah, and you knew life was good too. Anyway, God bless Matt. Alright, well did that help at all? Thank you, free ministry.

You're welcome. But did that help? Yes, I think so, yeah. Because it... Yeah, thank you.

It had to fix it with facts and they don't understand, okay? Mm-hmm, right. Thanks, Matt. Alright, Doreen.

God bless. Alright, let's get back to Aaron. Let's see if Aaron's still there. Aaron, are you there? I am.

Can you hear me? Oh, much better. Much better. Alright.

Okay, good. So my question is, is the term gods, even in the Bible, can that be referring to judges and earthly authorities? Yes.

The word Elohim is used in different senses and Jesus quotes Psalm 82, 6, Ye are gods, when you're speaking to the Pharisees, and addresses them with that phrase in John 10, 30, 34. So, yeah, and it could be used of different beings, I mean, it could be of different people in power and various things. It has a wide variety of meanings in its usages, yep. Okay. Alright, that's really the question that I had. Okay. So, yeah, that's it.

Thank you so much. Well, let me ask you, what prompted the question? I'm just curious.

Well, I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Okay. Okay. Well, let me ask you, can I ask you some questions then? Sure. What is your ultimate source of truth and authority?

It's a serious question. Your ultimate source of truth and authority. Ultimate.

I believe that it's the Word of God, which is constructed of three sources, which is the Scriptures, obviously, the Holy Ghost, and the Church. Okay, so you have three ultimates. You can't have three ultimates.

Yeah. It's logically impossible. Well, they all have to be in alignment.

Well, hold on, hold on, you don't understand. They can't all be ultimate. There's only one ultimate thing.

If you have multiple ultimates, you don't have any ultimate, you don't have any final authority. You see, this is the problem. What's your ultimate authority? Is it your church? Is it Scripture? Is it God?

What is it? Can't I, to get my bearings, I can have three sources, right? Yes, but getting bearings and directions are not the same thing as an ultimate source of authority in the spiritual sense that we're talking about.

So it's different categories. The issue here is truth. Is the Mormon Church true? Is Joseph Smith a true prophet? Well, you know, the eighth article of the Mormon Church says the Bible is correct insofar as correctly translated.

Well, translation means one written language and another written language. And Joseph Smith said that the Book of Mormon was the most quick book of any on earth. You know, it's through the church volume for page 461.

Well, he said that. So he's casting data on the word of God. So in other words, the scriptures, the Bible, is not your ultimate authority, is it? So what is your ultimate authority is what Joseph Smith said and the LDS Church and the prophet.

Right? No, I disagree with that. And I'm not your typical Mormon, either, as many will attribute. Well, then what's your ultimate authority? What is your ultimate authority, then? Well, I think when it comes down to it, it's personal revelation. I mean, ultimately, what Mormonism introduces, well, in alignment with the scriptures and the Mormons are not trusted, can't be trusted, can't be corrected. So do you go with the Joseph Smith translation?

I think you're making it more technical than it used to be. No, I'm not. So you can identify, you can recognize truth. How do you recognize truth? How do you recognize truth? Fruits of the Spirit, Galatians 5.22.

It's actually fruit in the singular carposis, so you know it's not fruits, plural. The fruit of the Spirit, the Spirit is only recognized if Jesus Christ gives him to you. That's John 14.26.

Yes. John 15.26. But you have to have the right Jesus.

Would you agree? Well, I would question on what the right Jesus is. Oh, now that's a good question.

That's a good issue. Well, the Jesus of the Bible is prayed to, directly to. Do you pray to Jesus? Do you pray to Jesus? No, but why did Jesus say pray to your Father in Heaven? John 6 and Luke 11, because he was under the law, Galatians 4.4, made for a little while lower than the angels, Hebrews 2.9.

So he had to follow the law, and that's why he did that. But he's also prayed to in John 14.14, and you can also go to 1 Corinthians 1.2, when you call upon the name of the Lord Jesus, it's a phrase from the Old Testament, call upon the name of Yahweh, which is attributed to Christ. And they're praying, so they're praying to Christ. So in plus... Well, like, can I pray to the Father in the name of Christ? Is that...

Yes, you can. But I ask... I mean, is there a difference here?

We're almost out of time, which is why I'm going so quickly, and unfortunately we're out of time. But the thing is, Jesus in the Bible is prayed to. The true Jesus is prayed to, but you can't do that in your theology, and it's because you don't have the true Christ. And because you don't have the true Christ, the true Christ is not revealing the true spirit to you.

That's why you bear witness of things that are false, because you don't have the true Christ. Well, I... That seems to be slippery slope breathing based on a promise, but I'd be happy to further discuss, but I know you're out of time, so... Yeah, we are. We'll call back next week. Luke knows Mormonism really well, and I know it really well.

In two weeks, call back. We can have a little discussion. We're not so rushed, if you want. Okay, buddy? Appreciate it, man. Okay. Thank you. All right. Okay. Hey, sorry about that. Samantha from Wisconsin. We have time to get to you about John 12.

Have a good discussion, though. May the Lord bless you. Everybody, next week, Luke will be filling in for me. Luke Wayne.

He's on staff here at CARM. And be gentle with him. Have a great weekend, everybody. God bless. Bye-bye.