Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network Podcast.

Listen to people talk. I'm going to be on tomorrow. Next week, I just give you a heads up. Luke Wayne's going to be running the show for a week. Luke Wayne works with us. He's a full-time guy, writer, researcher with KARM. And he's been with us for about five years.

He's in Salt Lake City area. Great guy. And so, he will be running the show. He's going to be taking calls just like I do. And you can call up and ask him stuff. He's really good with the King James stuff. And he's a lot of things. He knows a lot of stuff. He's been writing and researching for a while and loves the Lord good man. And so, that's going on.

We're going to be training him up. And I know we just had a couple weeks off, but I worked. I worked through it all. Anyway, just letting you know. All right, all right, all right.

So, I think that's about it. Why don't we just get on the phones with Anthony from Virginia? Anthony, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. You may remember I called yesterday and we were talking about free will, but I kind of had to leave at the end of the conversation.

But I wanted to continue our course of discussion. And one question I thought about since yesterday is, we were talking about how unbelievers and believers can do the same things and yet God judges differently. And I guess what I'm wondering is, can unbelievers act from a position of pure altruism in your mind?

Can they actually... No. Because they're totally depraved. They're touched by sin in all areas that they are. No Christian can act from a place of complete pure altruism.

You've got to understand, Jesus is the level. So, are we acting in a manner that's consistent and on the same level of purity as Jesus himself, even as Christians? The answer is no. And much more or much less can an unbeliever do that. So, can any person do anything that's actually righteous at any time? No.

This is why. So, not even a believer. Can any action whatsoever? Well, you see, when you say any action whatsoever, you've got to understand that through Christ, we can do things that are right and good because it's filtered through what Jesus has done. People get this idea that their sincerity, their ability, is good enough for God. And it's not. You've got to understand that the Bible says that Kirsten is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the law to perform them. Now, Jesus talks about from the heart you are to obey, from the heart down deep.

So let me give you an example of something here. So years ago, and I've used this illustration many times, years ago I was on my knees and I was praying. It was no one home.

I was just at home alone. And I was praying. And 20 minutes, I couldn't even think of anything more to pray about. I was confessing my sins to my Lord. And just dealing with issues.

And 20 minutes of on my knees. And I could not think of one more thing to say without just being repetitive. And I went on to pray and I said, Lord, thank you for not making me like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Now, if you're familiar with Luke 18, 9-14, the Pharisees said thank you, Lord, for not making me like that tax gatherer. And the point is that even in my humility before my Lord, I was prideful. The standard of perfection is Christ's character, not ours.

Unfortunately, humanistic philosophy has crept into the church and people think this lie. I'll do my best, Jesus will do the rest. God understands my heart, so therefore he will work with me because of my heart, because of my sincerity, because of my goodness.

In other words, they're saying, look how good I am in this area. Now the Bible says, Galatians 2 16, nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ. So the works of the law include loving your neighbor, loving God, being honest with people, being sincere in your heart before people. These are all Old Testament works of the law and many of them are reiterated in the New Testament. And the Bible says we're not justified by any of that.

You and I are the same. We have nothing we can offer God. Nothing. Okay. I guess my concern is not so much the ultimate judgment, but just the ability to do it on a human level. Let's say there's a scenario which someone drops a wallet and the two people come to this area where this wallet is dropped, an unbeliever and a believer. Can they both think the same thoughts about helping the person? Can they both think to themselves, I want to help this person? Not that God will judge their deeds righteous, but can they both at least think that thought process of wanting to help another person when it doesn't benefit them? Sure, both could think it. Yeah.

Okay, now what? Okay, well I just wanted to establish that there's this ability to engage in a free will act on the part of non-believers and believers and they can both do the same things and think the same thoughts. Of course they can. I never said they couldn't.

Of course. Okay, well it seemed to me like yesterday you were saying that unbelievers are incapable on a human level of acting in an altruistic manner. They cannot do any good works.

They cannot. But they can act from a position of wanting to do something that's good in their mind. Yeah, in their minds is their subjective preferences.

So let me ask you, what makes a work a good work? It depends on how God defines the action. In my mind there are good acts, there are bad acts, and there are neutral acts. No act is neutral. Any good act does. No, no, no, no.

Stop, stop, stop. Nothing is neutral. Nothing is neutral. What if I look like a pork in the road and I want to go right or left? Is that not a neutral decision?

No it's not. Every decision you make is moral because every decision you make ultimately has God's involvement in it. He has given you the ability to make a free will choice. He's given you the ability to drive a car. He's given you the ability to be saved. And whether you go left and right, not that you have to contemplate left and right and the glory of God and which verse am I going to go for left and right. I'm not talking like that. But everything that you do has a moral value because to say that it does not is to say that God is not the Lord over everything. He's Lord and sovereign over what direction you choose. You go down the wrong street.

Well, everything. Let me ask you a question. Two plus two is four, right? Correct. Ought you believe that two plus two is four? Yes.

Why? Is it logical necessity or is there and or is there a moral necessity? We would know logically we ought to believe it, but is it moral also?

And the answer is yes, because the only way to justify the universality, the laws of the transcendental nature of logic and mathematics is because God is the necessary precondition for all of these things. And we ought to believe what is true because all truth comes from God. Therefore, you morally ought to believe that two plus two is four.

Everything. Okay, I can agree with that. I can agree with that. But I think where we're diverging is how does a person arrive at the conclusion that two plus two is four? Is it their own wisdom or is it God implanting the thoughts or beliefs in the mind for them? That's another topic about transcendentals and universals and things like that.

We can't get into that right now because this is a deep topic. But the thing about being good or bad, the Bible says in Romans 3, 10, 11, 12, no one does good. Well, I'm going to believe it. No one does good. Of course, that's the exception is Christ himself.

But we know what's going on. Jews and Greeks are all under sin. For no one does good, no one seeks for God. So that's what the Bible says.

I've heard interpretations that that's a poetic expression that's hyperbolic and used to create a sense of... So then can unbelievers do good works from the perspective that's going to matter to God, not you, and not your neighbor? Because that's subjective.

Subjective morality, who cares? Before God doesn't do good work. I believe God sees their good works as good.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You said he sees their good works as good. You automatically said they're good works. You just presuppose that, but you haven't defended that it's the case. How do you justify biblically that an unbeliever can do a good work? Well, if God says love your neighbor because it's good, do that. And an unbeliever loves his neighbor, then the unbeliever has done a good thing.

Now, I'm not saying that they're saying that they're... Then we have to ask more questions. What is the standard of what is good when it comes to loving your neighbor? What is the standard of that love? Is it your neighbor, is it you, or is it Christ? It's God. Okay, it's Christ. So the standard is Christ, so do you love your neighbor as Christ did? Maybe not as deeply as...

The answer is no. You can't tell me that you behave in a manner in this one particular instance on an equal level with purity on the level of Jesus himself. You can't say that. We're talking the ultimate here.

We're not talking about, you know, if I drop my wallet and eat it back, hey, dude, thanks, man, I really appreciate that, it's a good thing, man, thanks. We get that. We're not talking about that, we're talking about what ultimately is good. And a lot of times Christians fail to understand what's the ultimate standard.

And they don't want to go to God, they want to go to themselves. I'm trying to break you from that and have others listen and be broken from this as well. Well, what I originally called it, and I'm not sure if you're going to be taking a break soon, but I would like a little more time to ask... Hey, perfect, there's a break. There's a break perfect time again. Hold on, we'll get back to you, all right? We'll get back after the break. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. I hope that that is an interesting conversation so far.

It's really important, people need to listen to it. But we'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back, everybody. Let's get right back on here with Anthony from Virginia. Anthony, welcome.

Hey, Matt, all right. I'm understanding your position about the moral to it, but what I want to get down to is, let's just say you come to a fork in the road, right or left. Do I, as a human being, just neglecting any moral repercussions, can I at that moment actually choose between right or left? Like, do humans have just that basic level of freedom at that moment? Yeah, you can choose, yeah. Okay, so it appears to me that doesn't that violate God's ultimate sovereignty?

No. If he doesn't control that decision? Who says he doesn't control the decision?

Where'd you get that? What do you think God is? Do you think he's sitting on the sidelines hoping things work out? Well, I do believe that with human free will, if humans are actually able to choose between multiple competing options at a moment in time, then ultimately it does require that humans have, you know, God has given us this capacity to deviate from his prescribed course of events. Of course, that's correct. It's called the prescriptive will of God, and his permissive will, he allows us to do things contrary to what he wants us to do in a moral sense. So, you know, you could, I could lie. Not that we would.

I hope neither of us would ever do that. But we could do that, right, because his prescriptive will is don't lie, but we have the possibility of being able to do that. He would permit it. But that decision is within God's sovereignty. Don't think that God is like a Mormon God who's learning, limited. You know, people don't have a good understanding of who God really is, the God of Scripture. Okay, I think there is a conflict between the idea that humans can choose different options and God being absolutely sovereign over all aspects of the universe at all times. Well, I guess you don't know who the Christian God is. What do you think God is?

A good guesser? Do you think that human free will is something that God has to wait on to see? Look, Jesus bore our sins in his body. Yes, I did, because... You what? Okay, I'm going to show you something.

Hold on. Does, um, did Jesus bear our sin in his body on the cross? Uh, in a manner of speaking.

I'm sorry, what? In a manner of speaking. There is no, in a manner of speaking, I just quoted, listen, I just quoted 1 Peter 2.24. He himself bore our sin in his body on the cross. Now, did he bear our sin in his body on the cross? Did he bear it? He, he was on the cross and he was, you know, physically punished, yes. Okay, I'm asking you a question.

Did Jesus, did Jesus bear our sin in his body on the cross? The answer is yes or no. Okay, yes.

Yes. Now, does God know all of our free will choices in the future? Uh, I think that's an open question. Okay, so it's either... It's difficult philosophically.

We have, no it's not. It is difficult if you don't have a proper understanding of who God is. But look, so if Jesus bore our sin 2,000 years ago is when he died, what sins did he bear for you and I? If he didn't know what choices we're going to make and what sins we're going to commit.

So explain that one. Well, he could have, you know, made a general sacrifice for any sins that they or me not commit. A general? A general? What's general sin?

What is that? General sin? It could be knowing that humans may sin in their free will. Okay, buddy look, Anthony, you're moving into heresy. You're an open theist, aren't you?

Aren't you? I don't describe that theory... An open theist says that the future's open because God can't know what our free will choices were going to be. Because if he does, then that means that we can't be free to choose them. And so therefore, they lower the majesty and knowledge and presence of God in order to elevate their own freedom. That's called open theism. The God of open theism can make mistakes. The God of open theism doesn't know all things exhaustively. The God of open theism doesn't know which sins to impute to Christ. Because your view of God is so low, this is...

I'm not being mad at you, I'm just informing you. Because your view of God is so low, you're running into these errors. Well, I don't think saying that God gave humans libertarian free will as lowering God is just... Yes it is.

Because of what you're doing with it. You just said it may or may not be that God knows the future, what our free will choices are going to be. And yes it is, that's a heresy.

I'm going to read something to you, okay? Now, I believe that man has free will, the ability to make a choice what they want to do when they want to do it. I believe that. You do too. I believe it.

This is Acts 4, 27, 28, for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to occur. So he predestined these people to do those bad things. That's what a text says. You with me?

I am. So, did they have free will choices to be able to do it? Well, I think that that translation in some different, like I read the NIV and I think it does read a little bit differently. It's very ambiguous, it's somewhat ambiguous as to exactly what's taking place there in my opinion. Okay, so now, what you're saying is, well, the text doesn't really say that. But yes it does. Alright?

That's what it says. Now, let me ask you a question. Did Jesus have free will?

Yes. Did you know that Jesus... All human beings have free will. Jesus has free will and yet Jesus says he could do nothing unless it's what his Father has ordained for him to do.

Right? I think it's in a sense of he always chooses to do the Father's will by his holy perfection. He says he can do nothing of himself. John 5.19. The Son could do nothing of himself. So, he has free will. Is it not true that God the Father sent the Son to do what the Father had ordained for him to do?

Well, in an ultimate sense, no human being can do anything without God because God created the universe. Anthony, I'm just trying to warn you, man. You're in bed with heresy. And what's probably going to happen to you if you don't repent of this is you're going to go further and further down the line of false teaching and you'll end up denying the true and living God.

I'm warning you. I don't believe that a believing in libertarian free will is denying God in any way or... You're not listening. You don't listen to me.

You don't listen to what I'm saying. You have already stated that Jesus may or may not have bore our sin in his body. When I talk about and quote you the Scriptures from a very accurate translation of Acts 4, 27, 28, you say, Well, it's not necessarily going to mean that. In other words, now the Scriptures don't really mean what they actually say because you want to elevate your human freedom up above God's sovereignty. That's what you're doing.

It's called idolatry. You need to repent. But we've got to go. We've got callers waiting. But you've got to repent, buddy. Call back tomorrow and we'll talk about it some more, okay?

Seriously, this is an important issue. All right. Hey, folks, there's a break. May the Lord bless you.

So much heresy. So little time. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Please stay tuned.

Three open lines. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back, everybody. Let's get on the phone with Rudolph from Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Yes, I was wondering, I'm glad you had the time to enjoy your family.

And I'm glad you came back. I'm having trouble, Rudolph, sorry. I'm having trouble understanding you.

Could you repeat that, please? What about now? Can you hear me now?

I guess so. Let's see how it goes. I've got this thing now. Okay. Can you hear me now?

Hello? Yes. Can you say communion?

Yeah. I was wondering, can't any person that's by themselves have communion at home? Because I've never done it. Can they take communion by themselves?

At home, just you? I don't see anything in Scripture that says you can't. Normally how it's done biblically is in the context of a church service with other people. Our tradition is that we have an official clergy person who administers communion. And I don't see that as a necessity in Scripture as well. So since I like to judge everything by Scripture, I don't see anything in Scripture that says only clergy can give communion. I don't see anything in Scripture that says you have to have two or more people there. So let's just say that someone's on a deserted island and has been stuck for a while for whatever reason. And he wants to take communion, he or she.

I don't see any problem in that context of taking what we'd call the best elements he could arrive at and go through some sort of a ceremony and then take it as an act of adoration before God in an attempt to minister in that way by himself. I don't see a problem with that. And if I can not see a problem with that there, what about a person stuck in the home? People with disabilities who can't go anywhere, can they do that then?

I don't think that they could. I think it's best to do it in a church context. That's why I'm asking because I'm sorry. Yeah, it's okay.

It's all right. So that's why I was asking because I actually have a disability and I was kind of a little concerned about not getting to a church. Well, it was convenient. I know they have online services where people will say, you know, get your elements ready because you take it in a joint effort, you do it yourself in that sense.

I don't have a problem with that either. The best way, of course, is in a church context where we take it together. That's the best way. But that just doesn't work sometimes. Sometimes people are stuck in a hospital for months or in home for a month and they watch a sermon on TV or wherever on their phone on Sundays and they want to take communion.

What can they do? I would say go get some wine if you can or grape juice and a little bit of bread and set it aside and then when it's time you take it and that's communion. I don't have a problem with that. Okay, okay. I hate to hear that you're leaving.

You what? I hate that you say you're leaving because Luke Wayne is going to take over for you. No, for one week. He's only going to do one week. I'm going to schedule that he does it every three months because it's just good to disciple people and raise them up and things like that. Wayne's a great guy. He really is. And you'll enjoy him.

He's full of knowledge and wisdom and I don't let him know that I said that, but you think you'll like him. All right? Okay. Thank you. All right, man. God bless. Okay. All right.

That was Rudolph. Let's get to Wayne. Wayne, the thing you wanted to talk about, where in the scripture does it say that Jesus was sprinkled? Because that's my opinion and I'll answer the question.

We'll get to Clay next. I believe that Jesus was sprinkled, not immersed, when he was baptized. And people say, what are you? I thought you were smart.

How could you? What? Okay. Doesn't baptism always mean immersion? No, it doesn't.

Not always. For example, I'm going to give you a little bit of a lesson here. Just a little bit and I'll explain and I'll end up with the stuff.

Okay. So this is Hebrews 9, 10, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation. And the context, when you go before and after, the context is this. And this is just in verse 13. I just read verse 10 and I'm going to read verse 13. For if the blood of goats and bulls and ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctified, cleansing of the flesh.

Now you need to read these things on your own and check these out. But you'll notice that the things that the writer of Hebrews is talking about, various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of redemption. But when Christ appeared as a high priest for the good things to come, he entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle. And not through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood he entered. For if the blood of goats and calves and ashes of heifer sprinkled those who have been defiled, sanctified, cleansing. It goes on. And if you read before and after, in the context of Romans 9, you'll see it's referencing Old Testament sprinklings.

That's what it's doing. Old Testament sprinklings of blood and things like that. Well, the reason I focus on Hebrews 9-10 is because it says they relate only to food and drink and various washings. The word washings is baptismos. It is the Greek baptismos. Baptismos. Baptism is used here as washings. And the context has to do with Old Testament sprinklings. People say, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that. Well, here, look at this.

Go to Acts 2. All right. Now think about this.

Let's do this. And all Judea was going out to John the Baptist. All Judea was going out to him to be baptized. And he had his ministry for a couple, three years or for a while. I did the math.

I forget what the numbers are. But all of Judea, I did the historical analysis of the populations at the time. It's like hundreds of thousands of people.

Now, they were all going out to be baptized by John the Baptist. Now, it doesn't mean every individual. But how many thousands of people are going out there because it says all of Judea, all of Israel is going out to be baptized by him. I mean, it's saying a lot of people. But what's a lot of people? Ten thousand? If he was doing 10,000 people, and I did the math, there's no way he could do all those baptisms by immersion in two, three, four years.

It just doesn't work. When you go to Acts 2 and it says 3,000 people were baptized, well, wait a minute. Who's doing the baptisms? Now, it doesn't say who's doing the baptisms. It doesn't say how many were doing the baptisms. Some people say 120 disciples were doing it. Some say just one.

Some say 12. I think 12 is a good number because the 12 disciples who represent Christ would be the ones doing the baptisms officially. It makes sense, but there's no proof of that.

But let's just work with that. Three thousand people were baptized. If that's the case, they're in the upper room when it's initiated. That means they had to leave. That means they had to go preach someplace else. And 3,000 people were baptized in one day. If you do a baptism, excuse me, if 3,000 people are baptized in eight hours of nonstop baptism, all 12 disciples would have to be immersing a person every two minutes, roughly every two minutes, 20 seconds.

That's just if. Twelve disciples are doing it nonstop for eight hours. That means they'd have to do each one, one baptism, every two minutes and 20 seconds. Now, where are they going to do this? In the public fountain?

That doesn't make sense. They can't do it in the public fountain. They get the water dirty, people drink out of it. They have to go to the river. Well, the Jordan River is cold. So you have the disciples standing up to their waist, their chest, in cold water. Think hypothermia. If they're only standing up to their knees, then they have the issue of back problems, lowering someone down in the water and raising them up every two minutes and 20 seconds for eight hours when they go down weighing 100 pounds, up weighing 105 pounds from water saturation in the clothing while they're there.

You start with the numbers, you go, wait a minute. Now, why do I say Jesus was sprinkled? I say he was because Jesus said in Matthew 3.15, he said that he was to be baptized in order to fulfill all righteousness. To fulfill means Old Testament. If you go to Leviticus chapter 8, numbers chapter 4 and Exodus 29, you'll see in those chapters that in order to enter into the priesthood, and Jesus was a high priest after the order of Melchizedek, Hebrews 6.20, Hebrews 7.25, in order to enter into that priesthood, he had to be 30 years of age, Jesus was 30, verbal blessing given, my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased, anointed with the Holy Spirit, anointed with oil, that's a typical type, and sprinkled with water. That's Levitical law.

You find that in, I believe, Numbers 8.6. So if Jesus was fulfilling the law, that's why I believe he was sprinkled. Do I believe in immersion through baptism? Sure!

But I think Jesus in this case fulfilled the law and was sprinkled. What do you think? Think I'm right?

Think I'm wrong? Give me a call if you talk. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, let's get on. I'm sorry I got to say it now. Sorry, in our chat room I made up a word. I just think I just flabbered, gas door irritated a bunch of people. What I said to her, crack it up.

So I put it on Carm in the slick scenario just now. A lot of fun. All right, sorry, Clay, you there, buddy? Yes, sir. Hey, brother, well, God bless you, man.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you. It's nice to be able to come in and talk to you because of, I know you took some time off and it was well deserved. I'm thankful to the Lord for that. You know, I find it interesting that when you have callers that call in and you are coming with the biblical knowledge and insight that you have and then that one caller was questioning certain things.

And, you know, I know what I can share with you. I know I came from a Methodist background and I was sprinkled. But from when I got baptized and I was fully immersed, it was shared with me what that was meaning.

And it's knowing that there is a cleansing inside your heart that is guiding you and renewing you and regenerating you towards where you are in your walk with Jesus. You know, I find it because I've heard so many people talk about certain things over the years. I'm so thankful for Truth Radio and you being in the time slot that you are because the Lord created that to happen. You know, it's not about what works. I should tell you, you should call up or email the Truth Network and just email them and let them know that you appreciate, not just me, but the fact that they are concerned with truth. And I could tell you stories I know from behind the scenes dealing with the owner of the system of the network, Stu, great guy. He is more concerned with the truth than making money.

I mean, that's what it's about. I mean, you know, I don't know if you were able to hear the call-in thing. Brother Steve, you know, does from four to five every day and he took time off and Brother Stu filled in for him, Steve Noble.

Okay. So Brother Stu filled in and I've gotten to meet and talk to, you know, I did some outreach stuff for, you know, Brother Stu when Pastor Jeremiah came to the PNC Arena in Raleigh several years ago. But, you know, it's not about being a good work person, about the fruits of your labor.

What do you feel good about inside yourself? If I can help that guy that called in just a little bit ago, I know that in the book of Hebrews it talks about that people have drifted away, fallen away or turned away from God the Father because think about this. Here's the interesting thing for me is that in the book of Romans and I've gone into that book a couple of times. The book of Romans 8, verse 29, it says that he foreknew, before you or I or anybody else were born, he foreknew what he was going to do. He foreknew everything and he's the creator each moment of every day.

Right. He's all knowing he's all in control. So, you know, I'm trying to figure out why that guy. I can tell you why. He does because he has a low view of God and a high view of himself. It's that simple. Well, I think he's also been misguided and misled.

Yes, that's right. He's been misguided, which is why he has a low view of God and a high view of himself. He's thinking, and I want to ask him, can anyone do anything good apart from God? If he says yes, then goodness is not dependent upon God. Then how can an atheist who's apart from God do anything good? It's real simple. But anyway, what question have you got? That's where the creation of God the Father comes in because he knows what he's going to do with the situation.

Well, I was trying to teach him, but he was not teachable. So what's your question? I've heard people talk about this thing regarding COVID. And I know that you have shared your viewpoint on it. And so I heard somebody talking today about it.

And there were a couple of other people that jumped in and I said, look, I don't look at anything else. I said, I only listen to a radio station called Truth Radio and they bring the truth about what's happening. And I feel that the COVID thing is just a small preamble as to what is getting ready to happen regarding God the Father sending his son back. Do you have a question?

Do you have a question, though? The other thing is, people are being deceived and lied to. Is that not part of the plan that Satan has for that situation? Yes, but God also sent a deluding influence upon people so they'll believe a lie, 2 Thessalonians 2.13.

So God is sovereign over all things. And do I think, personally, my opinion, is the COVID, so to speak, pandemic being used to control people? Absolutely.

Absolutely, absolutely. I had to go to a diabetes appointment yesterday and I had to wear a mask in the building. And everybody had to wear a mask in the building. And I know that the masks don't do anything. The cloth masks are only 3% effective, at best. And the surgical masks are roughly 50% effective. And if you touch them on the outside, they're now contaminated. In fact, I used the same mask I put in my pocket I've had for months when I'm required to enter a building. I just put it on. Satisfied, I want to say? Yeah, this thing's probably dirtier than the chair you're sitting in, you know? It's just insanity.

They want us to comply, the compliance markers. Well, that's where it's fallen in line as I've tried to share with a couple of people about part of the deceiving and the lying because I know that I listen to certain things. I feel that when I hear you share certain things, that's lining up with the truth. And you're right about Brother Stu. Just to be able to talk to that man, the book that he came out with that I got from him February of last year, to read it. Brother, I'll be honest with you, it just makes so much sense to me. And I hope and pray that people will listen to what you're saying and other pastors, what they're saying on Truth Radio because it makes heartfelt sense.

It gives you the insight and the knowledge because you can grow where the Lord needs you to grow. And here's something else. Do you have another question, though?

Because we have people waiting. No, sir. Do you have another question? No, I'm fine. Okay. Because I'm with you. I agree with you.

No, I'm good. We have to stand up. Christians need to stand up. They need to be united. And the pastors now need to start preaching and teaching about our obligation before God, not before our government.

But we have both, but God is supreme. And yeah. Yes, sir. I agree with you. That's right, buddy.

I'm going to stand up for what I believe in and that's Jesus Christ. Amen. Well, thank you, brother. God bless you, man.

I'm looking forward to when you have another column on and bring forth some truth and let people hear it. That's right. That's right. Praise God. All right. Well, have a wonderful night. Thank you for doing the job you do. I'm very thankful for you. Thanks, Clay. Appreciate it. All right. Well, God bless.

That was good. Okay, let's get to Ann from North Carolina. Ann?

Yeah. Hi there. It's always a pleasure. I listen to you in my car. Fortunately, I'm off the freeway now.

But on the way home, you know, when I'm getting off work. But the point is, we were talking very quickly about the baptism. And I was baptized, more or less, in the Jordan River in 1978, my first trip to Israel.

And it wasn't in one of those little, they now have very organized, you know, baptism places. But this is like just right in the middle there, you know, or whatever. And I remember the little fishies swimming between my legs. And then, but it was about waist, you know, right above the waist, high a little bit. So it's just like they, you know, they dug me in there.

It was not that hard for them, you know. And the thing that, I thought there was a verse, and maybe I'm wrong, let me, you know, let me know if I'm wrong. But I thought there was a verse about he came out of the, you know, being drunk. The water.

The water. And he came out, and how can you come out when you've been sprinkled? You know what I'm saying? So I think he, I think he... Well, hold on.

Hold on. When it says they came out of the water, for example, if you go to Acts chapter 8, where the Ethiopian eunuch baptized him, it says they both came up out of the water. Right. So does that mean that Philip was also baptized? That they both came up out of the water?

Well, I would say that he might have, he might have dumped down with him, you know, type thing. But the point is that they came out of the water just indicates to me, I always thought that, that I would think that it would be, because that's like they do that. Not necessarily. Don't they do those nikvahs where they, you know, I mean... Well, hold on. Hold on. Let's go, let's go for one thing at a time. So coming up out of the water does not mean they were immersed.

It might mean it, but it doesn't necessitate that. When we lived in Southern California, our daughters would be at the beach. They'd be up there, up to their knees, I'd say, come up out of the water, get out of the water. Get out of the water. They weren't immersed. And they'd say, get out of the water.

Get out of the water. Well, it's a terrible opinion, I guess. You know, to me it would seem like it would be a full-on thing. But how can they baptize 3,000 people in one day? Well, the Lord, you know, enables you to do pretty miraculous things, doesn't he? But that doesn't... But anyway, it's not that... Wait, wait, wait, wait. You can't just say that.

You can't just say it. He'd elaborate miraculous things as you go on. But there's no indication that that was a miraculous anything. It just says they were baptized.

So you can't just dismiss it and say, oh, it's miraculous even what the Bible doesn't say it was. You see? Okay. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. All right. I always challenge people to think critically.

Well, I am. That's why I was calling to just say that, first of all, that I was baptized in the Jordan, which was a lovely experience, but also to just say that it seemed to me that... I know today, even today, Jewish people have... What is it when they dunk themselves seven times or something? But it's like sort of a carryover of that sort of thought. And so to me, it would just make sense. I personally don't see how they could just throw water at them and make that about it. It's not throwing water at them.

It's not what it is. See, when you say things like that, that tells me you have a disrespect for that whole idea because in the Old Testament, the priest was sprinkled with water. That was the command. Jesus entered into the priesthood at his baptism. Therefore, if he fulfilled the requirements in the Old Testament law, he had to be sprinkled. That's a part of the law.

So I challenge people to find anything contrary to that scripture. So we've got another caller, which we're going to get going, okay? All right, one more caller.

Monique from North Carolina. Welcome. We've got about a minute. So what do you got? Okay, I'm going to say it real fast. Hopefully this is in a question form that you've been clear.

My question, I'm sorry I can't give you the address, but you'll know the scripture. When he says some say with compassion, others like with fear as those escape the fire, something like that. Oh, yeah.

I'm sure you've made it. Yeah. Yes, and so I wanted to ask, and hopefully this will make sense, obviously you talk to people all the time and have a lot of people that come with the intent to oppose you.

So particularly with those people. Best I can ask you this, what is your message, and just to qualify that, mine, of course I'm not an apologist, but I do know the word of God. But because I'm so prone to just wanting to, oh, let me answer that because I have all the scripture for that.

I learned over the years from me anyway. This is like, okay, Holy Spirit, where all do you want to take this? We're out of time. Can you call back tomorrow and listen? We've got more time because we didn't talk about that, okay? No, that's okay. All right.

Sorry about that. Man at a time. Hey, folks. Well, there you go. I hope I challenge some people to do some critical thinking. Don't just assume.

Study God's word. All right. Hey, folks. By His grace, back on there tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. See you. God bless. Bye. This is another program powered by the Truth Network.