A previously recorded Matt Slick Show. It's Friday the 13th, the scary part of it. So it's been really productive. We're doing a lot of stuff. We're getting closer to the site being released. We've got a lot of stuff we've got to do, though. And now it has details. A lot of details.
So praise God for that. All right. Five open lines. 8772072276. We have different people from all over. I'm going to ask that it will go into the chat to tell me what state, country you are in.
We've got a guy named Robert from Slovenia that he's in. I like to see where people are from sometimes. It's kind of fun to do that. So if that sounds like something you want to do and you want to get in and enjoy a little bit of company in the chatroom, all you have to do is go to karmcarm.org.
In the right-hand side you will find the links for watching the show, participating, getting in the chat area. It's not a big deal. I'm just sitting here doing this. Okay, we've got somebody from Poland. We've got someone from Scotland. How about that? So keep putting in where you're from.
I'm in Idaho. Over the years we've had from every single country, and we've had island groups and things like that. So the only thing we haven't had is a call from the astronauts out there. So who knows? It would be great if you had a question.
That would be awesome. All right, so someone from Missouri. There you go. Loved yesterday's lecture on socialism.
I have never heard anything. Anyone do it as well? Wow, glad you're out there, Mr. Slick. Good. Hannah, thank you for that. Someone's in Cowanee, Illinois. Another one in San Francisco, California. FEMA Region 10, the Great Northwest.
Friday the 13th. You want to know about it? Well, it probably really is.
I've got a little bit of a background on a couple of things. Now, in Hebrew and in Greek, in the New Testament and the Old Testament, the languages have one set of characters that are for both numbers and letters. We have numbers and letters. I mean, we have A, B, C, and 1, 2, 3, different character sets. But in Greek and in Hebrew that the Bible was written in, they only have one set. So one set of characters is also numbers as well as letters.
It just depends. So when they would write certain topics, it turns out that a pericope, which is a section of Scripture, and so a pericope on, say, discussing Satan, I've never verified this, but I've heard it from different sources over the years. It seems to say the same thing. People who know the Hebrew and the Greek, they go, yeah, it works this way, it works that way. That when you have a pericope on, say, the devil, you take all the words in that pericope and you add up the letters, they're always divisible by 13.
So 13 is said to be the number of sin. Friday the 13th, why is Friday the 13th spooky? Well, it turns out that on the Jewish calendar that the day would switch at sundown. So it gets dark. So let's just say for illustration purposes that sundown on Friday the 13th back then was at 6 p.m. local time.
Let's just say that. It could be a little bit before, a little bit after, but let's just say 6 p.m. Well, for the Egyptians, that was still Friday the 13th when it became the 14th for the Jews. So the 13th switched at sundown to the 14th for the Jews, but it stayed the 13th for the Egyptians until midnight when they would switch.
What happened then? Well, the 14th of Nisan is the day that the angel of death went through Egypt and killed the firstborn. So it was the 14th of Nisan for the Jews. It was the 13th, Friday the 13th, for the Egyptians. Now, one more thing. The 14th is the Sabbath on that day.
So it's interesting that it happened, I believe if I remember correctly, on that Sabbath day for the Jews, but the Hebrews had no rest, and so they paid the penalty and suffered, and hence down through the years it became Friday the 13th. That's what I understand. That's one of the sources of that issue that I've been told and read over the years. Hey, guess what? We have four open lines. Why don't you give me a call?
877-207-2276. More people from different countries, whatever. Tell me where you're from. You're from Utah. That's a different country right there. So, San Francisco, that's its own little country. I've got some issues there.
Yeah, Friday, that's a bad day for Egypt. That's right. All right, let's get to Carrie from Boise, Idaho, right here in Boise, Idaho. Carrie, welcome. You're on the air.
Hi. I get a little confused with terms in the Bible, and I'm wondering if you can explain, are God's sovereignty and providence interchangeable terms, or are those different things? Sovereignty is his right to administer providence. All right. So, let me practice this note here. I've got to keep up with the things here. Let's see, 09, sovereignty and providence.
Okay. So, sovereignty means that God has the right to do with his creation as he desires. He is sovereign.
Whatever he wants to do, he does. Providence is his means of providing. So, providentially, he provides the rain. Like, outside my house right now, it's raining. I love rain.
Love it. So, it's raining. That's God providing for the land with rain. So, he provides, during the day, sunshine. So, that's providence. Also, water for us to drink, and animals for us to eat, and plants for us to eat.
So, that's God's providence to provide. Okay. Sovereignty is his right and ability within that right to do with creation as he desires, because he is sovereign. Okay. Okay. So, him being the potter and we're the clay, that's a picture of his being sovereign.
Yeah. He's the potter, his sovereign, where the clay is, in a broad sense, where the clay is the result of his sovereign act. But he providentially provides for those that he sovereignly creates.
You can find this in Matthew 5, 43 through 48. God does the rain fall on the good and the bad, the sun on the good and the bad. That's the providence that God has for the people. His sovereignty is, he sends the rain when he wants to. And he can block the sun out if he wants. He can do whatever he wants, good clouds, but there's no sunlight coming in. He can do whatever he wants. That's his sovereign right.
But providence is his action of providing, one way or another. Okay. Alrighty. Thank you.
You're welcome. Alright. Okay. Hey, folks.
Have a good day. Okay, Carrie. I think I know Carrie.
That's right. We've talked before. All these people I know, they know me. And then when I go to church, they go, hey, Matt. I go, hi. I really are, because I can't remember. When you preach and teach and things like that, that happens.
We have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, give me a call. Sorry. I just read someone. Someone said rain equals pain. No. No, Ernie. No, it's good.
Okay. So, I love rain. I love it so much, I wouldn't marry it, you know. To me, rain is just a refreshing, just a blessing. My wife doesn't like rain. She likes all the heat, sunshine all the time. I'm like, yes, but I like rain. And snow.
She goes, no, I don't want snow. So we differ. We differ on several things. And you know, it's just tough for her to be wrong on so many things. Oh, wow.
That's just how it is. Hey, look. We have four open lines. Give me a call. 877-207-2276.
We're better, though, from Dallas, Texas. Welcome. You're on the air. How you doing, Matt? I am doing all right, man. What do you got, buddy?
Hey, how you doing? Sorry. It's a question about the training. Okay. Yeah, my question is, how do you view your guys' perspective on it?
I'm sorry, what? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I hear a lot of people say they're distinctive. Some people say they're separate. And I even heard people say they have their own body.
Okay, they don't have their own body. That's flat out heresy. That's Mormonism. And we don't want to say separate. The proper word is distinct. A lot of people will say things about the Trinity that's inaccurate and they don't really have a good understanding.
Just so you know, I've been defending it for 40 years. So I know what a Trinity is. Three is one God, one God, one being eternal. One being, one God, who has eternally existed, who has eternally existed in three distinct and simultaneous persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
So distinct means that they have their own identity. Then we get into the doctrine of the ontological Trinity, which is the teaching that each of the members of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each share in the same divine essence. That's the ontological Trinity. Into the ontological Trinity is what's called the perichoresis, and that is where the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each indwell one another in their essence. Also we would not say that God is comprised of parts. This gets into what's called divine simplicity. God is only one thing. He's not parts. Anyone who says God's three parts is actually speaking heresy. It doesn't mean they're going to hell, it just means they don't know the right words. So they don't say a few parts.
Now I have used that phrase to five-year-olds, six-year-olds, and seven-year-olds because they don't understand much more than that, but it's age appropriate. And so the perichoresis deals with the inter-indwelling of each member of the Godhead within each other inside the ontological essence of the Trinity. Yet their distinction is manifested in what we call the economic Trinity. The economic Trinity we get from the Greek oikonomia, and it has to do with an interrelationship.
We get the economy from that. And what this is, is that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have different functions. So the Father and the Son send the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit does not send the Father or the Son. Only the Son became incarnate, but not the Holy Spirit or the Father. So we see that there's a differentiation within the members, so hence their distinction. So we would not say separate because that implies three gods.
Distinct and persons is the proper definition, the proper words to use theologically. Hey, we've got a break, so hold on, okay, and if you have more questions, we can talk about it afterwards. Folks, we have three open lines if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, we'll be right back after this message. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick.
Everyone, welcome back to the show. I want you to give me a call, three open lines, 877-207-2276, all right, I'm going to let you know that on the 20th, a week from today, we're going to have on the air for the first half of the show, Luke Wayne. He works with us, and we're going to be doing a show on King James only. That's a little bit of an esoteric topic, so if you have questions on King James, save them up, King James only stuff, he'll be on a week from today, we'll just let people know about that, and we're thinking about moving to, on Fridays, having interviews with stuff like that, so I'm going to be trying to get some other people in. I know all kinds of topics, but it's kind of cool when you have someone else in, and we can do that.
So, we'll be arranging that periodically on Fridays, and if you want to give me a call, three open lines, 877-207-2276, let's see, Roberto from Dallas, are you still there? Yeah. All right, man, I gave you a lot of info on the Trinity, is there a question, or did it answer it? Well, just another one, on John 17, brilliant, when Jesus identifies the Father, right? Yeah, the only true God, uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Yeah. How does that work in the Trinity? Can I ask, do you go to, what church do you go to, just so I can know how to cater my answers better? What church do you go to, are you a Oneness person? No, I'm not a Unitarian, I don't believe that Jesus, it's just a man. Are you a Trinitarian? Just curious. No, no. You're not?
I'm a used-to-be. Do you believe in Oneness theology? Yeah. All right, so in John 17, let me ask you a question, if you're Oneness, is Jesus... Let me tell you why, though, is that okay? No, let me answer the question first. In Oneness theology, Jesus is God in flesh, right? Yeah.
Right? Okay. And so you believe he's God in flesh, right? Uh-huh. Okay. Is Jesus God?
What would you say? Yes. Yes. So when Jesus says in John 17, 3, this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus, whom you have sent, who's he talking about, the only true God?
Can I say that one more time? Who's Jesus talking about when he says, this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent? So who's Jesus talking about?
Oh, yeah. Who's he talking about? Yeah, he's... He's talking about himself? He's identifying... No, no, no, no. He's identifying the Father and Jesus Christ. Okay. So, but you said your Oneness, which means that there's only one person in the Godhead, and that Jesus Christ, you said Jesus is God, but yet Jesus is speaking to someone, obviously the Father, who's not himself, who's the true God. How's that going to work in your Oneness theology? That's the question.
People... Go ahead. Yeah. Well, I see it because John, he writes in the commentary on that, on John 17, 5, 20.
Okay. I'm asking you, I'm just asking you, right there in the verse, because Oneness liked to bring it up and Jehovah's Witnesses and others, and I can respond to this in several ways. I'm just... Now that I know where you're coming from, because in your theology, there's only one person in the Godhead, not the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, three persons, but one person. So that would mean Jesus, in Oneness theology, is God the Father, the same person. There's only one being who's God, not three persons.
So Jesus says, this is eternal life, that they may know you. Who's Jesus praying to? Is he praying to himself? No, he's praying to the Father. So is Jesus God the Father?
Yes. So Jesus is praying to himself? Well, we can... Was Jesus praying to himself? Was Jesus praying to himself? No, I mean, he's making a high priestly prayer there. Was Jesus praying to himself? The answer is yes or no.
No, no. No, he's not. So then, when it says here, Jesus spoke these things, lifting his eyes to heaven, he said, Father, the hour has come, glorify your Son, and there's something to glorify you. Is he praying? Well, yeah, he's praying to himself. So who's he praying to?
The Father. So if Jesus is the Father, he's praying to the Father, is he praying to himself? No, because the Father, you have to recognize that the Father, as the Father, he's the Creator of all things. That's why he's praying to the Father. But you said Jesus is the Father. So he's praying to himself? Yeah, but he's the Father and the Son.
Well, wait a minute. If Jesus is the Father, then when Jesus is praying to the Father, he's praying to himself. No, because he's the mediator and the Father is the Creator of all things. He's praying as a mediator, not praying to God. So I'm asking you the question, is he praying to himself?
That's the question. The answer is yes or no. Is he praying to himself?
No. But he's the mediator. So then, you said he's no, he's not praying to himself. And if he's the Father and he's praying to the Father, then how's he not praying to himself if he is the Father and he's praying to the Father? Well, because he's a mediator. You're not listening. He's a mediator.
You don't get it. He's praying to himself. There's a law of logic, the law of proper inference. If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C. So if A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C. If A equals B, if Jesus is the Father, right? And Jesus is praying to the Father, then he's praying to himself. The problem with... No, because I wouldn't have soared the whole mediation function. Mediation doesn't work from your perspective.
You don't have... Unless you want me to say he's God and he's praying to God. And he says, even as you've given him authority over all flesh, you've given him... So the Father gave authority over all flesh. Who did the Father give authority to?
Over all flesh. The Son. The Son. So is Jesus the Son? Yes. Is the Son the same as the Father? Yes. So then... So then...
This is so ridiculous. So you're telling me that Jesus is the Father and so when he's praying to the Father, he's not praying to himself, even though he is the Father, who he's praying to? Well, because if the training was true, then why did Jesus say all authority has been given to me by the Father? That's easy, because the Father and the Son are separate and distinct individuals, distinct persons in the Godhead, and Jesus was made lower than the angels, Hebrews 2.9, and made under the law, Galatians 4.4. So being under the law, he was required to obey the law and the requirements of the law. And as a man, he would have to pray to God according to the law, hence he prayed to the Father. He wasn't praying to himself.
And the authority would be given to him because he was under the law, but he was not the same as the Father. Please hold on. We'll be right back, folks, and hopefully this guy can see the illogic of his position.
That's what happens when you have aberrant wacko theology, you can't think straight. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show, bottom of the hour. If you want to give me a call, three open lines, 877-207-2276, Roberto, are you still there? Yes.
Hello? Yeah. Okay. So, Roberto, I'm showing you that your position doesn't work. It's illogical. If something's illogical, it cannot be true.
You can't have the trust. Let me ask you this. Go ahead. Would you say that you see the Father and the Son?
I'm sorry, what? Speak up. Would you say that you see the Father and the Son? Yeah, Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of God in Hebrews 1-3. Yes. Then you would say that Jesus is the one to die? No.
Look. You don't understand. You don't understand the issue that you're raising and the logic that you're failing to understand. Jesus is the representation of the nature of the Father. That's what the Bible talks about in Hebrews 1-3. In John 17-3, when Jesus is talking about the issue, He's only true God, it's because He's under the law. He has to pray to someone.
He calls God. You also have to understand that the Jews spoke often in exaggeration and things like that. For example, you go to Jude 4, for certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. That would mean the Father isn't our Lord or the Holy Spirit isn't our Lord, if only Jesus. The point I'm trying to make is in Jewish theology, Jewish thinking, they would often say the only true and the only Master and truly, truly, truly, and you go to Revelation 19-12, it says that Jesus has a name written on Him that no one knows, just Himself. That means the Father doesn't know and the Holy Spirit doesn't know, but that's not exactly what's going on.
They speak in exaggeration. When we're talking about this issue here, what you're failing to understand is that Jesus was made under the law, Galatians 4-4. He had to fulfill the requirements of the law. He prayed to the Father. He wasn't praying to Himself. He was not praying to Himself. If Jesus is the Father and He's praying to the Father, then He's praying to Himself. My whole thing is, what Jesus said, have I been so long with you, yet you don't know me.
Have you not seen the Father? So that's why we can say that Jesus is the one true God, because He's the Father. Got you.
Got you. I hear you saying your logic. If He's the Father, if He is the Father, then when He's praying to the Father, then He's praying to Himself. Hey, Guy, Guy, Robert, from your perspective, if Jesus is the Father, you say He's the Father, then if He's praying to the Father, then He's praying to Himself. Mark, if you give me a class where Jesus never says anything about the Father in Him or in the Old Town. Hey, Robert.
And I will agree, hey, if you're separate, hey. Espiriti momento. Espiriti momento. Espiriti.
Espiriti. Look, Robert, if Jesus is the Father and He's praying to the Father, then He's praying to Himself. That's the logic. If He is the Father, you're saying He's the Father. You're saying Jesus is also the Father. He's the same person as the Father. If He's praying to the Father, then He's praying to Himself, because He's the Father. This is what you're teaching.
There's one more question that's there, okay? How do you guys see when Jesus said, the Father is in me, you've seen the Father? The perichoresis, the Father is in Him, He's in the Father, perichoresis doctrine, which I already answered. And when He says, you've seen me, you've seen the Father, because He represented the Father. He's the exact representation of the Father. That's why. Now, here's the thing.
You don't understand. Robert, let me answer your questions. The Son is speaking to you, the Father is speaking to you. Robert, who was Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane? Who was He praying to? Was He praying to Himself?
Nevertheless, not my will, but Your will be done? No, no, no, He's praying to the Father. Is He the Father? Is Jesus the Father? Yes, because He just said... Then Jesus is praying to Himself, right?
If Jesus is praying to the Father, and He's the Father, then He's praying to Himself. Okay. No. If you say no, you contradict your own theology. No, sirs.
You've got to give me a text where I don't... Okay, Robert. You cannot think clearly, because you're not regenerate. You believe in a false god. You don't understand the truth. You don't understand the truth.
You don't understand what's going on. When I show you that you say the Father, when I say that I show you that you say Jesus is the Father, He's the same person as the Father, He is the Father. If Jesus is praying to the Father, then logically He's praying to Himself. You can't see this, you won't admit it, because your logic doesn't work, because your theology doesn't work, so you can't answer the question. All you can do is bounce around it and never get to the question.
This is what happens with people who have bad theology, who serve false gods. This is what you're doing. Okay. So, folks, we're going to move along. We've got four open lines, 877-207-2276.
Give me a call. Now, Oneness Pentecostal theology is false, it's Antichrist. Oneness Pentecostal people are not Christians. The reason they're not Christians is because they believe in a false god. The true god of Scripture is Trinitarian. The false god is not Trinitarian.
Oneness is the second person of the Trinity who became one of us, the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus is both divine and human. At the same time, when He would pray to the Father, He wasn't praying to Himself.
This is where people just stub their toes on logic, they can't handle logic, they have to go to other directions and make nonsensical statements. Now, what normally what they'll do is that they will say that Jesus, when He was praying to the Father, was actually the flesh praying to the Spirit. This is the majority of the answer that I've received from Oneness Pentecostal people.
And I'll ask them, then where was the Spirit, and they'll say in heaven. Then what they are doing is denying the incarnation. Because if they want to say that Jesus is God, and God in flesh has to be the one who dies on the cross, but they're saying that the flesh is praying to the Spirit and the Spirit's in heaven, then they're denying the incarnation. And they deny the incarnation, they're denying the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice. Furthermore, they teach that you can lose your salvation on a daily basis, in and out, if you don't do things right, keep things right.
And that's just works of righteousness. And they teach that in order to be saved, you have to be baptized in Jesus' name, not in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, but in Jesus' name. And if you're not baptized in Jesus' name, then you can't be saved. So they add a work, or they add works of salvation and a formula of words that have to be said the right way in order to be saved. The oneness Pentecostal theology is anti-Christ, and those who adhere to official oneness theology are not Christians.
And when they die, they're going to face eternal judgment because they're believing in a false God and a false Christ and a false gospel. Let's get to Jim from Raleigh, North Carolina. Jim, welcome.
You're on the air. Hey, Brother Matt. How you doing, sir? Good evening. I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right, hanging in there.
What do you got, buddy? Thanks for waiting so long. Oh, you're welcome.
My pleasure. So, number one, I'm just thrilled and excited that next Friday you're going to dedicate a show to James, to me. That's a little joke there. To James? No.
You lost me. You know, Jim, James. You said earlier that next Friday you're going to have a show about James. King James. Gotcha. King James Bible.
King James. Are you a king? All right. No. I hope. Oh, okay.
I hope you're not the one. Yeah. Okay. So what's your question? All right. Anyway, I'll ask my question.
Actually, I have two of them. The first one, do you think that with the government shutting down churches due to COVID, right? Yeah, but not abortion clinics. Do you think that's part of... No. Or the bars.
Because you have to have your beer. That's right. If you have alcohol and killing babies is okay, but you can't go to the church and praise God. Absolutely, but you can't go to church. Yeah.
It just tells you where the hearts of these evil people are. Oh, we had a break. Well, you can if you want to watch it on TV. That's right.
You can see how evil you are on TV as well. Hey, we've got a break. Hold on, buddy. We'll be right back after these messages. Folks, please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show, everyone. Jim, are you still there? Yes, I am, sir. All right, so go ahead.
All right. All right, do you think, with them shutting churches down in the synagogue that's out in New York, this is certainly persecuting us Christians and the Jews. Yes. Do you think that this is a prelude to the end times? Well, everything's a prelude to the end times. Everything is leading up to the end times. Now, technically, we're in the end times.
We've been there since Pentecost, but you talk about the end of the end times, and everything's leading up to it. So we have a government that is becoming far more liberal, and with that will come more persecution of the faithful. That's just what's going to happen. That's what history tells us.
There's no pre-trib rapture that we're going to get out from it. That's not going to happen like that. We're going to go through it.
And so this is what happens when oppression's coming. Okay. Okay. And I answered my question.
My other question, it's been on my mind for quite some time, and I've gotten to many debates about it. Okay. Forgiveness of sins, okay? Yeah. When Jesus was hanging up on a cross with the two criminals, the one criminal mocked him, and the second one asked for forgiveness, said, I believe in you. Correct?
He said, remember me when you come into your kingdom is what he said. Yeah. Correct. Which is essentially, to me, he forgave him his sins.
Correct? It doesn't say that. Here's the thing.
What the man said was, remember me when you come into your kingdom, and Jesus says, today you'll be with me in paradise. We deduce that forgiveness was offered. Okay.
The man had faith in who he was. Okay. All right.
Okay. And that probably answered my second part of that question. If Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin, and all the other bad people who did bad, horrible things to people, right, asked Jesus for forgiveness before they died, you know, a deathbed confession. Do you think Jesus would have, you know, forgiven him? If anybody would have trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, truly and honestly done that, they would have been forgiven.
The blood of Christ is greater than a holocaust. Okay. Gotcha.
Okay. Now, people say, well, that's not fair. Yeah, you're right. Saving one person is not fair. Jesus dying on the cross to save anybody is not fair, but it's a loving sacrificial act. And because Christ is God in flesh, his blood is of infinite value, that we cannot weigh the infinitely valuable blood of Christ to people of the holocaust or the murderous actions of Stalin if they had repented and come to Christ, they would have been forgiven. And that repentance would have been granted by God, 2 Timothy 2.25, and their belief would have been granted by God, Philippians 1.29. But it doesn't appear that that was the case. So they're probably, unless they repented, which I don't believe, but they did, they're suffering in hell.
They're going to be damned. Okay. Okay. I understand that. Okay.
Well, look, we've got callers waiting, so we've got three callers. Okay. Really, really quick. All right. Really, really quick.
I'm sorry. This is probably no to this, but if Satan were to ask for forgiveness, what would God do? He can't. He can't. It's too hard on him.
If squares are round. That is nonsensical. He can't. He's given over to evil. He can never repent. He never will want to repent. And there is no sacrifice for him.
So there, he's just not going to happen. Okay. I just want to say your encouragement. Thank you for what you do, brother. Okay, Jim. All right, man. God bless, buddy. Take care.
All right. Let's get to Matt from Fort Worth, Texas. Matt, welcome. You're on the air.
Hey, Matt. Thank you for taking my call. I just had a comment on that two callers ago, the oneness guy. So I was saved out of oneness teachings, and I think you really kind of hit the nail on the head there when you presented, was that in John, when Jesus was praying to the Father? Yeah, John 17, the high priestly prayer. He's praying to the Father. Yeah.
Right. And I was going to say that that's pretty much where a lot of oneness folks are at their weakest is you look throughout the whole Gospel of John, I mean, John 14 and onward, it's just clear as day, the distinction between Jesus and the Father. And when I was growing up in that movement, I almost never heard any kind of preaching on those passages at all, or any talk about it. So it's like, you know, it wasn't surprising.
He seemed like shocked almost when you presented, he didn't know how to answer it at all. No, they don't. And I think the only place they really go in John is like John 3, 5, where Jesus says you must be born of water, and they, of course, interpret that to mean baptism. But yeah, it's just, I really believe oneness teaching is extremely deadly.
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