Matt Slick Live

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877-207-2276. So last night I was on a chat system and I met a Unitarian and we had an interesting discussion. And Unitarianism is the view that there is no Trinity and Jesus Christ is not God in flesh, of course. So that makes it a cult. And I told this guy, he's in a non-Christian cult and he wasn't a true believer.

He thought I was very judgmental. And I said, no, Jesus says in John 824, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins. And he said, all I was doing was just repeating what Christ was saying and telling you. Last, yes, your interpretation. No, it's not.

It's what he said. And I showed him various things. And one of the things we talked about was the idea of what is personhood. And personhood is really necessary when we talk about the doctrine of the Trinity. You know, three persons, right?

Persons means that you have self-awareness, awareness of others, can think, contemplate, communicate, fellowship, love, you know, just various things of what personhood is, all these attributes. And I said, so if God is one person from all eternity, I said, how does he have fellowship? How does your God have intimacy? How does your God love?

The attributes of personhood, if there's no one around to be a person with. And he didn't know what to do with that. It was an interesting discussion because it kind of floored him. The idea, the thought of contemplating eternity from that perspective, from his perspective, didn't really make sense to him. And rightfully so, because Unitarianism is false. And a lot of people, a lot of groups hold to it. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses will hold to Unitarianism. And it can't work. Unitarianism doesn't work.

It's a non-Christian perspective. And so we have these discussions. And also, some other things we've been talking about recently. Look, folks, we've got five open lines. Give me a call here. 877-207-2276. Want to hear from you?

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Almost everybody uses Amazon. So if that sounds like something you want to do, you want to help us out, that'd be fine, too. 877-207-2276. Would love to hear from you. Okay. And let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's wait a little bit.

Get some more information in there. There we go. All right. It looks good. Looks good. Looks good.

All right. Let's get to Susan from Salt Lake City. Susan. Susan, you're on the air.

Welcome. That's a good question. You know, I've never been asked that question. Will all the children be raptured? I don't know.

There's no necessity. Oh, sorry. Anyway, I have been witnessing to some people. And then when we get into the book of Revelation, and they inquire about the rapture, then I had a gentleman 38 years old that worked out at the Air Force base here. He asked me last night. He said, Well, what will happen to all the children at the rapture? And if a woman is pregnant, and she's not a believer, but she's pregnant, will her child be raptured? Good questions.

I've actually wondered about the latter one before and just don't have an answer for you. So God will sort it out. We don't know how it's going to work. But I would think... Well, I can't imagine that children would be left to... You know what I mean? Yeah, to suffer?

Here? Well, it's a question we just don't have an answer to. Okay. We can't say that children will be raptured, like infants, or not be raptured. The Bible just doesn't tell us. So what we can do is be hopeful and say, Well, you know, probably will be and taken care of and things like that.

It'd be nice. But we just don't know. And I don't want to speculate too much. So it is a good question. Well, I thought I would call because I couldn't find anything. So I thought you would give me a fair answer. Well, I hope I did.

I just don't have a good one. Thank you so much. But if you ever read anything or hear of someone, you know, another you know, minister or teacher, I'll keep my ears tuned.

You know, and if I hear anything, I'll let you know. Sounds good. Appreciate that. All right. Thank you so much. God bless you, man.

God bless you. All right. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Okay.

On the line. I get a very simple, vague explanation and then the brush off. Yeah, if that's happened, that's really a concern. I would just keep bugging them. Or you can just go to this church service once and then say, Who's the youth pastor? And then go ambush him. Just ambush him.

Yeah, you need to tackle him if you have to get him into it. And then to do and they don't like that. Well, too bad.

Die away from it. Too bad. I live in a more rural community. There's not a whole lot of churches around here. And like the church that we belong to, it doesn't actually have a youth group because we're so small.

Yeah. And yeah, they just they won't. They won't really they don't really want to talk to you.

They don't really want to explain it. They want to be vague and, and I'm not going to accept that when I was a kid. I had bad experiences in youth group that pushed me away from the church. And when I would when I went to the elders and told them, Hey, this stuff is going on in the youth group.

These people are behaving, you know, in a very unchristian way. I was the one that got ostracized. That's unfortunate. And sometimes the one who, you know, who points things out gets ostracized.

Trust me, I know about this. Because I point things out, and it upsets people. So what I would suggest is... Yeah, it pushed me away from the church as a whole for a long time. Yeah, well, that's maybe because your church, your view is on the church instead of on Christ.

But the issue has to be on Christ. Now, if you don't have a good church to go to, I can understand some issues there. But you need to just go to the church and, and tackle them, find out what's going on, and then attend. So if you're gonna have a youth group, I want to I want to go, you know, a meeting with the youth, I want to go and see what's going to happen.

You just make them all uncomfortable. But, you know, if I were a pastor, we had a youth group going, and some parents said, I want to go check out the youth group. I'd say, please do love to have that.

Mom and dad being involved. Absolutely. Go for it. I'd be Yeah.

You know, it's a thirst if you're just shying away, brushing you off either because they're inept, or because you're so obstreperous, they have reputation in the entire county. So who knows? Well, the latter is not the case. I can assure you of that.

Because it would be with me, of course. But we live we live in an area where the word reformed is a is a is a four letter word. Yeah. That's because people don't understand it.

In fact, I was having this conversation with this Unitarian last night, he started snotting on me about Reformed theology. And I said, Well, do you know what it is? He didn't even know what it was.

You know, and I always ask him, Well, what's so bad about it? Tell me. And they don't know. They just hear stuff.

And I say, Wait a minute. Are you gossiping now? That's what gossip is. You just hear things. You don't know what's going on.

You just repeat stuff. You don't know it's true or not. That's gossip. Come on, stop gossiping.

And, you know, I wish I could take a bunch of Christians and sit them down in a big, big room and lecture them. Okay, stop this and stop this and stop this. Men, you sit over here. Women, sit over there. All right, ma'am, talk to you first. Stop it, stop it, you know, and, you know, big boy pants.

Act like men, you know, Bible tells us to I don't I just make too much enemies. I think a lot of people don't think enough. I think you're right.

I don't think enough. And the problem is that that when you stand on the truth, let me tell you, I've got a lot of experience with this. It doesn't mean that everything I believe and do is right. But when you stand for what you believe and you have a lot of scriptures to back it up, it intimidates people. And they generally don't want to deal with a problem. The problem is a challenge to their worldview. And they don't want that because a worldview is a nice constructed little world that they have of theological things as interconnected. And, you know, me, I can gently walk into that worldview and crash into a few things and knock a few things over without really trying just by speaking truth. So people shy away from that a lot. But that's just the nature of what truth is.

It doesn't care about your feelings. Okay. Everybody, we got to go. All right. All right, man. Thanks a lot. Hey, folks, we have four open lines.

What do you give me? Call 877-207-2276. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right.

Welcome back to the show, everyone. We have four open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276. Give me a ring. Let's get to, let's see. I guess I can't read the name right.

Shelda or Sheila from Raleigh, North Carolina. Hello. Are you there?

Yes. Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm okay. Thanks for asking. Good.

So what do you got? My question is, I listen to you all the time. And I think this is, I learned a lot by listening. And I just want to thank you for your show.

Well, thank you for saying that. I want to know about Masons and Eastern Stars. I had a conversation with a childhood friend and classmate, and he's a Mason, clearly from the conversation. And just want to know, how is that compared to the Bible? Because I know they get a lot of their information from the Book of Kings. Well... Or at least that's where they found it.

Yeah. It goes back to the Middle Ages. Some say it goes back to the Crusades when the Knights of the Templar were guarding certain passages. And then when the wars ended, they became Masons. They became a group of people that started extorting people.

That's one theory. Some say the Masons were just a bunch of stone Masons who had certain skill sets, and it became very powerful because they would not share their information with anybody except someone who was inside as an apprentice. And so the three levels inside of, mainly, the three levels in Masonry are apprentice, fellow of the craft, and then master Mason. But no true Christian should be a Mason. And the reason is because they have oaths that they take in secrecy that are not to be divulged. And the Bible speaks against that. Now, it's one thing to take an oath, for example, you join the service and you, in public, you swear to defend the Constitution from foreign enemies as well as domestic ones.

And so that's not a problem. But the Masons do it in secret. They also do not believe in the Trinitarian God, and they have allegiances to God, but the God is kind of an all-seeing presence. And so, basically, you could say it's a cult because it has theological perspectives. So, Eastern Star, I used to date a woman, girl, I should say, backgrounds of my late teens, she was a member of Eastern Star. And I don't know too much about them, but it was just, it's for the girls, and usually the younger girls, as an organization where they do things and special things and stuff. And I didn't do anything about it.

I haven't had to study it since. However, I will tell you the story, this is a true story, is that when she was doing one of her Eastern Star things, I was there, but I was not allowed to enter into the room because I'm a slimy guy, okay? No guys, no cooties. All ladies had to be in there. Okay, so I just, I walked around this facility, and I opened up a door and went into a Masonic hall.

And I remember it very clearly. It was maybe 150 by 200 feet, and red chairs everywhere. And towards the front was an elevated podium area. Not a podium, but an area like, you know, six feet or eight feet wide by, you know, maybe four, five feet deep, a foot high, that kind of a thing. And it had a couple chairs in there, and you could walk into it, and nice woodwork and everything.

It had a platform at an angle, you know, as you face, you put your books there, and you could teach from there. And there were these books there, and I remember this very clearly, because I was a Christian, and I opened these books, and I started scanning through, and I found a reference that said, Jesus is not God. And I went, what?

Because he's God in flesh, according to the scriptures. And I'm like, what the heck? You know, I'm scanning through, just looking for words, you know, just like Jesus, you know, God, whatever. You know, just scan through, and scan through.

You can do that pretty quickly. And I, you know, spent five minutes, and look at that. There's a quote, you know, about Jesus.

He's not God. So I closed that book, and I opened up another book, and started scanning through, and I'm not kidding. I actually read with my own eyes, I remember it, where they said that the Christians are a problem in the world, and they need to be gotten rid of.

And I was like, what? So they're denying the deity of Christ, and they want to get rid of Christians, at least in these two books that I saw. Now, I can't tell you if those books were official Masonic sources. I can't tell you if they were cult books that they were trying to get rid of.

I don't know. But that's what I read in that pulpit area, in a Masonic lodge. I know that they have secret handshakes. I know that they swear oaths to the Masonic system. I do know that as the, let's just say that as the Masons, in their varying forms throughout the centuries, went public and then went underground. And some people have stated that the 33 degrees are tracings of them going from here to there, different levels, and stuff like that. And when you finally get to the 33rd level, I've actually had people that I've researched who have stated that at that level, there are some new oaths that you must take, and they're to a new being. So it's a dangerous thing.

What happens with people... Yeah, my father was a 33rd. Yikes. Yeah.

Uh-huh. And he was part of the Shriners, too, as well. I don't know about any of the Shriners. I just always wondered if it was... I'm sorry? Yeah, I don't know about the Shriners.

Sorry. I always wondered if it was righteous, because they're very... they stand firm in what they believe and what they were taught as far as when it comes to the Masons. And they get upset when you come against them, when you go up with the word of God.

I always wondered. Well, they give themselves over to whatever Masonry is. Now, a lot of people don't know this, but Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, was a Mason. And he took a lot of their Masonic ceremony and just incorporated it into the LDS temple ceremony, the handshakes, the hugs, and things like this. And so he was a Mason.

So it has a lot of influence in our country. As a matter of fact, if you look at a dollar bill... I don't have a dollar bill on me. My wife doesn't let me carry money. Once I had $20 in my pocket, and I didn't want to tell her I had it.

I just wanted to see how long I could keep it. And literally within two days, she goes, have you got $20 on you? Just like that. So anyway, look at a dollar bill. Okay. And on the back, it has the pyramid. And it says Novus Ordo Seculorum, new secular order on our dollar bill under the pyramid with this all seeing eye, which is a Masonic symbol. Right.

Yeah. So the Masons have been heavily involved in the formation of our country. And there are secret societies.

There are all kinds of things going on in all kinds of levels of government. This has been known for a long time. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

There's a grove on the East Coast. People know what I'm talking about. I'm being vague.

A lot of stuff's going on. All right. Thank you.

You're welcome. Well, then God bless. Hey, folks, we have five open lines. Nobody's waiting. Why don't you be the first? Give me a call. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show, everyone. We have four open lines if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. Let's get to Aaron from Washington State.

Aaron, you're on the air. Thank you. I had a question about polytheism and how it's defined biblically as far as is polytheism leading in the existence of other gods or actually worshipping other gods. And if it's just leading in the existence of other gods, even though we don't worship them, if that's biblical or not.

No, it's not. The Bible says there's only one God in all existence, all place, all time. You go to Isaiah 43, 10, 44, 6, 44, 8, 45, 5. It says God doesn't even know the other gods. There'd be no God created before him, no God created after him, period.

That is it. So if anyone were to believe that there's at least two gods, then that person is automatically a polytheist and an idolater. Because they're giving attribution which belongs to the true and living God. They're giving it to something else other than the true and living God by saying that there's more than one God. Because the Christian perspective of God by necessity and definition is that he's the only one. He's always been God. He by definition is the only being who is, who has existed and forever will exist as God. That's the Christian definition. So polytheism automatically calls Christianity false just by the very fact of its definition, believing in more than one God. And it opposes the true God. And it is God who has revealed himself.

The only way to know God is if he reveals himself and he's done so. He did so in three ways. One in creation, that's general revelation. One is special revelation called the Bible. And the other one is in the incarnation in the person of Christ. So polytheism is a theoretical teaching. It's false.

And it's self refueling also. So if God appointed somebody such as, I'm going off the reasoning that God the Father and the Son are two separate beings. No they're not.

No they're not. They're not two separate beings. So how can the Son, it's the difference between personhood and Godhood, I guess. The Bible tells us that God exists as one being simultaneously as three persons. Not three gods, not three personalities, not three offices, not three modes. As one God exists as three simultaneous persons.

We don't know how that works. But that's the revelation of scripture. That's how God chooses to reveal himself. Well that's like the description of the Trinity. But the Trinity isn't in the Bible. I mean it doesn't actually speak of, it doesn't have the word Trinity in there. So it doesn't have the word atheist in there either, but the concept's there. So that's irrelevant whether the word is there. So, but I believe that the Trinity, the doctrine of the Trinity, is using false reasoning because I could say, well a fire truck is red and my car is red, therefore my car is a fire truck.

Yeah, that's not the logic we use and it's faulty logic to begin with. So let me ask you, do you believe that there's more than one God out there? I believe that the Father and the Son are two separate beings.

Okay. So which one is ultimate? The Father. Which one, the Father is ultimate? So the ultimate being alone has the attributes of all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-present, correct?

Would you agree? Correct, yeah. Okay. So Jesus is another God, right? Technically, yeah.

Okay. So if he's another God, what are his attributes as God, as a God? You know, he's literally a God, what are his attributes? Is he all-knowing?

The Son, are we talking about? Whatever this God is you're talking about, this other God. Is your other God all-knowing? Okay, so God has everything. He's all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-present.

The Son receives everything from his Father. Okay, so is the Son all-knowing? Yes. Either yes or no. Yes. Okay. Is the Son ever-present?

No. Okay. So how can you be all-knowing without being everywhere all the time? Okay, so, all right, then he would not be all-knowing. Okay, so you don't even know.

He does not know the day or the hour. You have no idea what that means. You have no idea what that means.

Okay. That has to do with the wedding feast. It's a wedding feast. When the bride and the groom were betrothed, it took a year. And then they would, before the wedding, then they would build, the Father would say to the groom, to the Son, go build a room addition onto the house. And in that year time, when it's ready, the Father will say, go get your bride. They had to know what day the wedding was because they had to arrange for the calf, the food, you know, the fatted calf, the food, you know, all that stuff, the wine. The people had to travel from out of town and things like that.

They'd come in. And so culturally it was a norm for the person to say, the friends of the groom say, well, what day or the hour? And he'd say, no man knows a day nor the hour, just the Father.

It was an idiomatic expression of the culture at that time. It did not mean they literally did not know. Furthermore, if you want to go with that logic, that in Revelation 19, 12, it says Jesus has a name on him, which no one else knows, just himself. Well, then that must mean that God the Father doesn't have knowledge of that name. You have to understand that the Jewish culture spoke in exaggerations in regard to things like this. Well, where did he get the name, though?

So I'm just telling you, your logic is faulty. So if you're going to have the second God, what are the attributes of the second God? You call him a God.

He is given whatever power, whatever authority, that God the Father has given him. Okay, what is it? Tell us.

What is that? Give me. He was given power through the flesh. I mean, it's written in the New Testament. Is he everywhere? Read the book of John. Is he everywhere? Is he everywhere?

Yeah. Is he everywhere? All-knowing? All-powerful? No, not? Right? Yes, he's all-powerful.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. He's all-powerful, okay? So that means he can do whatever he desires?

Right? He works according to the will of the Father because they are one. Okay, I'm asking you about the nature and the essence of this all-powerfulness. So what can he do?

Can he go against the will of the Father, this other God? No, he... But he's not all-powerful, is he? No longer.

Okay, but that is a... I've got another question for you. Does Jesus, this lesser God, does he hear people's prayers?

Yes. Okay, so I don't know if you know, but let's say 1.2 billion people who claim to be Christians. I don't know how many really are Christians, but biblically speaking, you can pray to Jesus. So let's just say 5 million people are praying to Jesus at any particular hour. So is Jesus able to hear 5 million simultaneous prayers from all over the world, different languages, spoken and thought, even though he's not the true God, he's just a lesser God, can he hear all of them at the same time? I can't speak to that.

I would assume so. You assume, you don't know. So how do you get the revelation of this God that you don't... Where did you get the revelation of this God you don't know about? Well, I read the Bible.

The Bible? The Bible said there's only one God, and not more than one God, so you're going against the Bible. Well, Jesus said that he did not come in his own name.

Okay, you've got to focus. I said the Bible said there's only one God. Right. I'm thinking about 1 Corinthians 8, verses 5 and 6. Yes, because there's only one God, right?

Yes, there's one God, one Lord. Yeah. That's all I mean.

Okay. So you said you read the Bible. The Bible says, this is what God says, okay, in Isaiah 43, 10, God says this. Your witnesses declares you Jehovah or Yahweh, and my servant. Before me there was no God for him.

There'll be none after me. Correct. Because Jesus was Jehovah.

Because what? Jesus was Jehovah is the Old Testament. Oh, Jesus was Jehovah. So who's Elohim?

His father. So Jehovah is the Son and Elohim is the Father. Well, why does 1 Kings 8, 60 say Jehovah is Elohim?

Well, that gets into... It says Jehovah is Elohim. If you're saying they're separate, why does it say Jehovah is Elohim? Jehovah is the name of God, the name of Elohim.

Who is Elohim? We've got a break coming up. Hold on.

Okay. There's nobody waiting. Maybe they want to hear you and I continue to talk. So if you want to stay tuned, we've got a break. Hey folks, if you want, you can call for open lines 877-207-2276. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show.

Last segment of the show, we have four open lines. Give me a call, 877-207-2276. Aaron, are you still there? I am. What church do you go to, Aaron? I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Okay. So you believe that Jesus is a lesser god, that there's a goddess mother, the Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost is equal. We're not going there. And so you believe in many gods.

So is your god L-O-P? I believe in the existence. Well, okay. So I didn't want to bring up my religion because I would rather focus on what the truth is in the Bible versus, I mean, you can go anywhere with my belief, right? And I want to focus on what your belief is and what the truth is. My belief is the true belief, yours is not.

Okay. Your belief was invented by Joseph Smith, who's a con artist and who was involved in the occult, and he developed it. And his theology is self-refuting, it can't work. And there's plenty of facts to prove that Mormonism is false. That's the genetic fallacy though.

No, it's not. Because it came from Joseph Smith, it's false. Joseph Smith said he saw God the Father in the first vision. 1 Timothy 6 16 says the Father dwells in an unapproachable light who no man has seen nor can see.

Joseph Smith lied. And other scriptures say that people have seen God except those who are of God. He says, John 6 46, not anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God, he has seen the Father. That's talking about himself, Jesus. They see God in the Old Testament.

And in Genesis 3, Genesis 17 1, 18 1, Exodus 6, 2 and 3, Numbers 12, 6-8, Exodus 24, 9-11. They see God, but Jesus says it was never God the Father. That's what Jesus said. Right. And that's what he said. Yeah, Jesus was not God the Father.

That's right. Jesus says no one has ever seen God the Father. And Paul the Apostle says the Father dwells in an unapproachable light who no man has seen nor can see.

So he cannot be seen. So that's what the scripture says. Do you believe the scriptures? Or do you believe Joseph Smith, that he saw the Father?

I believe that it takes more depth than a scripture chain to truly understand what's being said. I mean, I don't I don't do this full time. I do. I'm a little nervous. It's okay. It's okay. I'm not I'm not mad at you or anything like that. All right.

Okay. But I just want you to know I believe that that no man can see the Father, except it be through the Son. And God is unchanging. And that's always been the case.

That's not been the case. We worship the Father in the name of Christ. Correct? No, no, no, no, you're saying things that aren't true. God in Mormonism We do not worship the Father in the name of Christ? I said in Mormonism God changes.

He's not always been God. Okay. You know that, right? Based on what?

What is that? Where are you getting that from? From the Mormon sources. From the King Paul discourse that is not canonized?

It doesn't make any difference. The issue is that you know that you're in Mormonism, you know that your God Elohim was an exalted man, right? Okay, that came from the King Paul discourse that is not canonized. Do you believe it? No, I don't. You don't believe it? You don't believe that God was a man in another world? A man in another world became a God? No, and can you find it in their standard works?

No, you cannot. Okay, so you deny Mormonism. No, I understand Mormonism.

You do not. I will give you one of the keys in the mysteries of the kingdom. It is an eternal principle that has existed with God from all eternity. The teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. Do you believe that? That is the one source that is constantly quoted and it is not canonized. Okay, so we know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being, but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity. Book of Mormon, Moroni 8.18, right?

Correct. Okay, teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil. Gospel Principles, 1997, page 305, teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith.

Again, that is referring back to the king who followed this course. Okay, so Joseph Smith said this. Are you saying Joseph Smith was wrong?

Yes. So you are a prophet, you disagree with, and Mormons are teaching. Okay, go back. So you deny that.

Go back and read the king who followed this course. And he said, I am going to teach you from the scriptures and if I don't, then you can call me Paul the prophet and whatever. And what happened? Two months later, he was dead. Yeah, because he boasted that he had more than even Jesus to keep a church together.

Pride goes before a fall. So Joseph Smith was wrong. Okay, you are judging your prophet. And so do you believe that there are many, many, many, many gods out there?

I don't personally know. How many gods have there been? I believe that the god of the father is the most high god.

Okay, the most high god. And has he existed from all eternity? Yes. Did he reveal himself to Joseph Smith? Yes. Is the Bible the revealed word of God?

Yes. The Bible says that you cannot see the father. So Joseph Smith lied. Okay, well I'd love to sit through and have a conversation about John 15. But we don't have that amount of time. John what?

It's more in depth. I'm sorry? John what? What verse? John what?

What do you want to go to? John chapter 15. John 15? Where he talks about sending the comforter. And then by receiving the comforter, will you receive him? Yeah, that's the Holy Spirit. Okay. And then when you receive the Holy Spirit, then you endure. And then he will make himself manifest to you. And he will bring his father.

Okay. So John 14. 26 and 15. 26 about the Holy Spirit, the parakletos, the comforter who's coming. That's not about the issue of seeing the father at 1 Timothy 6.

16. So Paul the apostle says that, speaking of the father to context. He dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen nor can see. Do you believe the text of God's word?

God's self-revealed, God-breathed word. Do you believe that? Yes. Then you do not believe Joseph Smith saw the father, do you? No, I believe that he did.

Yeah. No, you either believe the word or you don't believe the word. The word says that no man has seen or can see.

Cannot see. So it says Joseph Smith could not have seen the father. I believe that there had been a transfiguration taking place, which is recorded in his own record. A transfiguration. It wasn't his, a transfiguration. In his own record. Because after his experience, he was laying on his back.

He was not still standing up. Wait, wait. You mean Joseph Smith? Yes. So Joseph Smith said it was a transfiguration? Yes.

Okay. According to his record, he didn't say it explicitly, but that's what he described. So he was, was he transfigured? Yes. Okay, so did he see God the father? Yes. Okay, so you don't believe the word of God.

Who alone possesses immortality, dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen nor can see. You're calling God a liar to believe your Mormonism. Okay.

Well, Matt, I didn't prepare for that argument. I just wanted to know on the existence. I want to know any scripture in the Bible that says if you simply believe in the existence of other gods, then you are not saved. In Exodus 20, in Exodus 20, Ten Commandments, ready? It says this. I am Jehovah your Elohim.

That's what it says. 1 Kings 8 says Jehovah is Elohim, because you don't understand what it means. He says you shall have known of gods before me. You shall not make yourself an idol, any likeness of what's heaven and earth, above the water, above the earth, no likeness. You shall not worship them or serve them. You shall not bow down before them. Even though Moroni is an image in Mormonism, that you go in and bow down underneath that image inside the temple.

But that's another thing. You shall not make for yourself an idol, any likeness of heaven and earth. You shall not worship them.

You shall not serve them or anything. Because if you do, they punish you. So if Jehovah is Jesus Christ, and we worship the Father through the Son. Why does it say Jehovah is Elohim? Why does it say Jehovah is Elohim?

1 Kings 8, 60. Because we go with the assumption that the Son speaks with divine investiture. That all things have been given to him, and he has been given power over all things. And he can speak on behalf of the Father. So you're not believing the word of God. You don't believe what it says, that the Father cannot be seen. Joseph Smith said he saw the Father, the Bible says he can't. So you deny the word of God. The Bible says there's no God created before, none created after.

He doesn't even know of any other gods. You deny that as well. When it says Jehovah is Elohim, you give me some explanation to try and get around that. See, the problem is, and I'm not trying to be offensive. You're not a Christian.

Sure. You're a false convert. And if you were to die right now, and I don't want that of course, you'd go to eternal damnation. Because you serve a false God, and a false Christ, and a false gospel. Can you tell me what the gospel is, incidentally? Do you know what the gospel is? The gospel is power unto salvation. What is the gospel? Jesus Christ. Repentance?

I'm sorry, what? Tell me the gospel again really fast. The gospel is power unto salvation by having faith in his son, and the Father's son, Jesus Christ. Okay. So that's what the gospel is, right? Yes. Okay.

Well, I'm going to read something to you I think might be important. And even if, because the Bible says the gospel is, not what you said, but the gospel is the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's what the gospel is defined in 1 Corinthians 15, 1 through 4.

So you got that wrong. 2 Corinthians 4, verses 3 and 4 says this. If our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In whose case the God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, so that they might not see the light of the gospel, the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. So you got the gospel wrong because you don't know the gospel.

And the Bible says why. I was quoting Romans, so I don't know, is Paul wrong? Is the gospel not the power unto salvation? That's Romans 1 16, the gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes. I ask you, what is the gospel? You didn't define what the gospel was. So you didn't know what the gospel is.

And you don't because in Mormonism, Jesus... The gospel, okay. So what is, you asked me what the gospel is. And I quoted Romans 1 16, the gospel is the power unto salvation for anyone that believes. And you didn't know what the gospel was. I didn't know what the gospel was before I went off there. And I don't understand what the gospel is because... Why? The gospel is the euengealia, which is described and defined in 1 Corinthians 15 1-4.

It's the death, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, it's that we don't have to keep any laws in order to be saved because Christ did that. But in the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25 23, you're saved by grace through faith after all you can do. In Moroni 10 32, if you deny yourself of all ungodliness, then it's God's grace sufficient for you. So if it works right, righteousness... That's talking about sanctification.

You're confusing sanctification with justification. That's not what it is. That's not what it says.

And also in D&C 82 7... But you don't have the authority to define faith. That's what it says.

That's what it doesn't say. You don't need authority. You don't need authority. The Roman Catholic... I mean, excuse me.

The LDS Church has no authority. It's not restored anything. Hey, we're out of time. Why don't you call back tomorrow? Why don't you call back tomorrow, Aaron, because we could talk some more.

People would love to hear it. All right. Hope you have it too. All right.

Thanks. Hey, folks, pray for Aaron. May the Lord bless you all. And by his grace, we're back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. See you, everybody.