Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick Show.

Matt Slick Show with Matt Slick. And then I get a little text on my phone from one of my friends. He goes, Hey, you want to debate an Eastern Orthodox guy?

Right now. A whole bunch of people in a room. And on Discord. And I said, yeah, okay, sure, why not? And I go in there. I don't know who, what. I don't know what's going on. But I'll just debate. I felt like it.

So, two and a half hours of mayhem. Oh, man. Oh, man. Oh, man.

And this guy, oh, man. This guy couldn't argue his way out of a wet paper bag. And he said he had a Ph.D. in philosophy, which I strongly doubt because he made so many mistakes in just critical thinking. He wasn't able to articulate problems, logic issues very well. I actually started wondering. I think he's conning me.

And the other thing, he had a Ph.D. I just don't see it. I can't see it. And he would get this. And this is what I bring this up for. I wanted to go to the Scripture. Let's go to the Scripture. Let's see what the Scripture says. And he kept saying, No, we can't go to the Bible until you tell me how we got it and how we know it's true.

I don't accept that. I don't have to tell you why the Bible is what it is. But I answered him how I, you know, the witness of the Spirit and how God worked through the Christians, through church history and councils and things like to recognize the word of God. I told him.

He didn't like the answer. But that's what he said. He said the same thing.

That's what he said. And he said that the Holy Spirit would bear witness. I said, Well, that's what I said. And yet I was the one who was wrong for saying the same thing he was saying. And then we had this guy come in.

I'll just give his first name, Jay. Oh, man. Now, I'm going to tell you something. The group of people that have treated me the worst is the Satanists.

OK, that goes without saying. Satanist groups, you know, killing my family and stuff like that. The next worst group was the Universalists. They are, you know, teach about God's love for everybody. Oh, man, are they full of vitriol, hatred and condemnation. And then I would say that, you know, some atheists fall just underneath the Universalists. But for the most part, the atheists have been pretty good. You know, I don't agree with them. There's some jerks there.

But for the most part, they've been pretty decent. OK, now, aside from the Universalists, guess which group has treated me the absolute worst? It's the people from Eastern Orthodox.

It's not the only time they've encountered them. I'm telling you, I don't know what their problem is. They're full of accusation, rudeness, insults, condemnation, mockery. They show no love of Christ whatsoever.

It was really shameful. And I concluded, finally I concluded last night after debating this guy and having people interrupt and be rude and saying, you know, I'm from the devil and things like that. I've concluded that what the Eastern Orthodox people do is replace Jesus with their church. Because their church is the way, the truth and the life. And nobody can come to God except through their church, their church councils, their church scriptures, their church tradition. The Bible itself has to be submitted to whatever their church tells you. You can't just go straight to the Word of God. And even though I brought up scriptures where they did exactly that, the guy ignored the scriptures, it took me an hour, maybe an hour and 20 minutes to get him to finally go to the Word of God and look at scripture to see. Let's see if what you teach, you know, agrees with scripture. And he'd say, no, you can't go to scripture until you can tell me your hermeneutic principles are true and blah, blah, blah, through the historical. I'm just like, can we just read it? You know, I said, you know, John 11, 35, Jesus wept. And I, you know, I just, I brought it up. I said, I'm going to interpret that.

I'm going to interpret to mean that Jesus wept, that he was crying. Am I right? It took 10 minutes for him to say yes. Well, was that, did I need a church council for that?

No. Let's just go read the Word. And we finally, after about an hour and 20 minutes, got to Colossians 2, 13 and 14.

And when I read it, he wouldn't even look at it and explain anything. Oh, man. I'm just telling you. This is my weekend. For me, this is a good day.

This is a good time for me. I don't know what it is, what's wrong with me. You know, I have a friend named Dave and he has, there's a condition. He gives me the name of the condition.

And if he's listening, he can call me and tell me what it is or someone knows. When he gets, when something happens to him, he laughs. When it's painful, he laughs.

It's a disorder and there's a name for it. So when something really painful happens, he laughs, which I've seen him. I've got some funny stories. When I saw him once get smacked in the fingertips by something, it was pretty hysterical. And he was laughing.

He was in so much pain. At any rate, so it's the same kind of thing for me when I encounter heresy. I enjoy it. I don't know what is wrong with me, but I enjoy it. And anyway, that was my day. That was my, I should say, evening.

And I enjoyed it. So if by any chance any of you heard that, you can comment three or two cents in. And in the meantime, why don't we just jump on the lines and get to Kent from North Carolina. Kent, welcome. You are on the line. What do you got, man? Hey, man. How you doing, buddy?

I'm doing all right, man. What do you got, buddy? Well, I wanted to ask you, where is Jesus Christ from and what's his origin?

It's you again. Okay, here we go. What's his origin? The human nature or divine nature?

Divine. What was he? Where he's from, where he was born.

I got you. Where he was born? He was born in Bethlehem. Okay. So, yeah. So that makes him, he's a Hebrew, right? A Nazarene, right? Yeah.

Okay. Next question is, if he was born in Nazarene, a Hebrew, how could his name, which is a Latin Greek name, how can that be his name? Well, I don't know, because God ordained it that way. Did God ordain that? Okay, let me ask you a question. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on a sec. Do you believe that God's in control of all things?

Yes, I do. What God are you talking about? Okay, so God's in control of all things.

Hold on, hold on. So God's in control of all things. Is he in control of the New Testament documents? He's in control of all. Is he in control of the New Testament documents? Yes, he's in control. Okay, good.

Okay. So he's in control of the New Testament documents. I'm glad you agree with that. So do you agree then that God in his sovereignty ordained the New Testament to be written in Greek? I can't go there. I disagree with that. You mean God did not ordain what we have?

You said he's in control of all things, and so you said he's not in control of how the New Testament was written? Is that what you're saying? Well, let me ask you a question. Where are you from?

Well, it's a hard question for me. I've moved 40 times in my life, literally 4-0. Okay, so I'm born in one state and lived in a bunch of others. Okay, how can this be, if your mother gave you a name from China, how can it be your name from China, you're not from there? Okay, so just having a name. My name's Matthew, which means gift of God. That's what it is.

Matthew. So what? And slick comes from the German schlichting. That's shortened.

So it goes from the German. So what? So what? So Jesus, the name, guess how many times the Greek word Iesous, which is Jesus, occurs in the New Testament? Guess how many times? 10,000.

No, no, not 10,000. 914 times, okay? So, did God ordain that the word Jesus, the name of Jesus, be recorded 914 times in New Testament documents? No, sir, I don't think he did.

He didn't? I think that was from the Catholic Church, Constantine, and the Catholic Church. Yes, sir.

Okay, but let me ask you this question. The name, the J just came out 400 years ago. What was the name 2,000 years ago? Iesous. The name just came out for... Iesous.

The name... I'm telling you, I'm pronouncing it for you. Iesous. Okay, it's Iota, Eta, Sigma, Omicron, Upsilon, Sigma. Iesous.

Okay? Well, the part we pronounce Iesous is Yahusha Hamashiach. That's not what it says. That's not what it says. Why are you changing the word of God? Cults do that. Cults change the word of God to make it fit their theology. Cults alter God's word. So why do you alter God's word? Why are you changing it to make it fit?

Why are you doing that? Sir, are you a philosopher or a Gnostic? I'm a Christian. And why are you changing God's word?

What cults would... You're changing God's word. This Hebrew Israelite idiocy, you are nothing more than a cultist deceived by these people. You don't know what your truth is. I've given you the evidence 914 times that the word Iesous, Jesus, occurs in the New Testament.

And many of the documents are recorded way before the time of Constantine. So you're not informed and you're ignorant about the truth. So what we're going to do, folks, because it's like arguing against a wall. Sometimes when I practice arguing with people like this, I go up to a wall and have an argument with it. Okay, no, listen to me.

And it's the same effect. Hey, if you want to give me a call, 1-877-207-2276. Let's get to Phillip from Orlando.

Phillip, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, man, how you doing? I'm doing. How are you? Doing good. Good. God is good. Yes. Hey, I have a question. There's a preacher guy I listen to on YouTube.

And it's very interesting. He doesn't baptize people in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. He only baptizes people in the name of Jesus Christ. Is that biblical?

No. It's not, right? Yeah, I was thinking that. Where did he got that from?

Do you know where? Well, yeah, I do. Hold on. And we'll answer right after the break, okay? Please stay tuned, everybody. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Hey, guys. During the break, I had to run downstairs, and I had to put something outside for someone to pick up. Then I noticed a big package was there. We ordered a generator, and there it was. It was too heavy.

So I had to run around in the house, open the garage, run outside, move this heavy thing, probably 150, 200 pounds, and then close it and run back up here. That's my 63-year-old self trying to catch up with the breath. And get this, my wife is listening, and she's at out of state along with Barb. So hey, Anik, love you. And Barb, how are you? Nice saying hi to both of you. Hope you enjoy the show today. If you have questions, call up, and you can ask. All right, let's get back on the air with Phillip from Orlando, Florida.

Hey, Phillip, welcome. Let's get back on. Okay. So about the baptizing in Jesus' name. Yeah. Yeah, so he was like putting, he was showing me scriptures in the Book of Acts where they don't do that in the Book of Acts.

Uh-huh. There's not one recording where they baptize a quote in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Close quote. It's always recorded as they baptize in the name of Jesus.

That's what it always says, and he's quoting those, and he's saying that's the proper formula for baptism, right? Yeah. Okay. I mean. So here's the answer. No, no, I mean, I don't think it's right.

I mean, because in Matthew it says you baptize in the name of the Father and in the Holy Spirit. The Father, yeah. Right? Here, let me give you an answer, okay? Let me tell you what's going on. Yeah.

All right. So the phrase in the name of means by the authority of. We pray in the name of Jesus. It's by the name of Jesus that this person does this and that. So when you go to Acts chapter 4 verse 7, let it be known to all of you and all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ, the Nazarene whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead. So they're saying by this name.

That's what they're doing. They're saying, well, where have you gotten this? Now that's verse 9. Now verse 7 says when they had placed them in the center, they began to inquire by what power or in what name have you done this? Well, in the name of Jesus. In the name of Jesus means by the authority of. And that's why he goes on and he says it's in the name of Jesus that whom you crucified that this man is able to stand. It's by that authority. So when you baptize in the name of Jesus, what you do is you baptize this way. I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit because that's what Jesus specifically commanded in Matthew 28, 18 through 20.

Right, right. That's what's going on. So generally, people who do that are in oneness cult. The oneness people do that. They say it has to be in Jesus' name. And they don't understand and they couldn't execute their way out of a white paper heresy. So that's what's going on.

Okay. Like do you think that talk, when he baptized people in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit thing that's talking about the Trinity? Yes. Like the Trinity, right? Yeah, because the oneness people, the United Pentecostal, the United Apostolic, they deny the Trinity. So they try and find a way to get around it, even in baptism. So they'll baptize in the name of Jesus. And some of the groups will say, there's derivations of the group, some of them will say the name of God is actually Jesus. And Jesus is the one manifestation of the true and living God because there's only one person in the Godhead, not three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, so that they do this.

It's just a cult that does this and this guy's probably a cultist. Right, right. All right, Matt, thank you so much.

You're welcome so much. All right, man, God bless, buddy. All right, you too. All right.

Okay. All right, let's get to Tom from Raleigh, North Carolina. Tom, welcome. You are on the air.

Hi, Matt. I'm looking at Hebrews Chapter 8. And in Hebrews Chapter 8, the author quotes Jeremiah Chapter 31. And he refers to there being a new covenant. And let me frame this, let me quote this from Jeremiah 31, what he quotes. He says, See, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts.

I will be their God and they will be my people. And each person will teach his fellow citizen and each his brother or sister saying, know the Lord, or they will not teach you, because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. So this definitely applies to Israel and the house of Judah, probably in the Millennium, or I know you're on Millennial, but when Jesus returns. But do you think that the author here is applying this quotation from Jeremiah also to the church that Jesus and his new covenant, which he refers to in Luke 22, 20.

Well, here's the problem we've got. And the problem is with my understanding, and I'll explain what I mean. In Luke 22, 20, he talks about the new covenant, and the sign of the new covenant is the communion. But when we go through Hebrews, and I did this a while back, and it was one of those where you look and you stare and you tap your forefinger and your chin and you kind of go, hmm, because I noticed, maybe you did, that the new covenant here in the context of Hebrews seems to be applied only to the house of Israel. So now what I have to do is go through and look at any and every instance of the new covenant spoken of, in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament, which I have not done yet. And I need to do this, and maybe your phone call will remind me and get me motivated tonight or tomorrow to kind of do a study on it, because the issue of the covenant, we know there's a new covenant, and most people take this out of Jeremiah and say, write my laws on your heart, but I think he's talking to Israel. And I believe, because I'm not a replacement theologian, I believe God's not done with Israel per Romans 11, 25, 26, I think the new covenant is related to that. Now, we're grafted in because the Jews rejected Jesus, and also we the Gentiles are grafted in because they broke the covenant of faithfulness, but God is still faithful in this covenant. So I have to take a look at it, because it says in Hebrews 8, 8, Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with the forefathers. Well, I'm not the covenant, I'm a Gentile, I'm not from the house of Israel or the house of Judah. So I'm a little perplexed so far by how people will take this new covenant and say, it belongs to us, and I just don't see it yet.

So that's where I'm at, I haven't studied it in depth enough, and now maybe I'm going to have to because you asked me and I don't want to sound like I don't know anything. Yeah, it would just seem that if we're grafted into the house of Israel and there's no distinction between Jew and Gentile now, it would just seem from the reading of this that we are ahead of Israel, we the Gentiles are grafted in, and we have God's laws written on our minds and our hearts through Jesus Christ, and then when Jesus returns, then the Jews will believe. It just seems like we're ahead of the Jews, but it's all the new covenant in Jesus.

What do you think of that? There's a lot of truth in what you said, because, see, Jesus was sent not to the whole world. He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, per Matthew 11-24.

That's what he said. So it's a covenant faithfulness requirement that Christ had to come for the nation of Israel. He did not come, he was not sent to redeem the whole world, but only to redeem Israel to be their king. They rejected him, and so we the Gentiles are grafted in. Of course, this is prophesied in Genesis 12-3, and Paul quotes that in Galatians 3-8, calling it the Gospel. In you all the nations shall be blessed.

So God was certainly aware of the rejection of the Jews of the true Messiah. So we are, in a sense, replacing Israel for a time, but not covenantally completely. Hold on a little bit more after this. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned. My Bible program, I did a search for the phrase, New Covenant. It appears eight times in the entire Bible, at least in the New American Standard, and that's really interesting. And the reason it's interesting is because in Greek and in Hebrew, the letters are also numbers. And so when you write letters, you're also writing a set of numbers.

It's called gematria, and there are really interesting relationships in that, but nevertheless. The gematria for Jesucristas, Jesus Christ, is 888, which is really interesting. And 153 fish that he caught is eight times 17, I believe that's what it was. And there were eight people on Noah's ark, and you're circumcised on the eighth day. And there's eight people. So eight is the number of new beginnings, and it's interesting.

It says it's the new covenant that occurs eight times. I just think it's interesting. But nevertheless, you've kind of motivated me to do a study on the new covenant and see how it's used and then go through it. I think I need to do that. All right. Well, I'll keep listening and see what you come up with. Yeah, and if you study it too, let me know what you find.

Call up sometime and go, hey, I found this and that because I don't have all the answers, but I always want to find out what other people are teaching and discovering so that we can work together. Iron, sharp, and iron. You okay, buddy? Appreciate it, Matt. Thanks. Have a good day. You too, man. God bless.

All right. Let's get on the air with Randall from West Virginia. Randall, you're on the air. Hey, Matt. I just listened to your debate with Kent Hovind from three years ago. I loved it.

It was great. But there was a topic you guys were talking about, and I don't want to be, I know this is G-rated, so I'm going to try to, you know, G-rate it. All right. But there's a passage in Leviticus, and I just came upon this as I was reading yesterday, chapter 15, verses 16 through 18. Okay, let me read it then. And I have been approached about that one topic, probably by young men more than just about any other topic, because I've worked in the church and everything for years and years.

But I never thought there was anything in the Bible about this, but it seems that this is what this is covering, the 16th and 17th. Okay, go ahead. Let me describe what it is because of the nature of it. I'll be very vague, and so people will understand.

Often young males at certain ages as they're maturing develop certain things that develop because of their maleness. And so in the Bible what it's talking about is being certain emissions and becoming unclean until evening. And it's talking about that specific thing. All right, so I hope I got the cross without being too, because I know our children. Right. Why is that? Okay, now are you asking in light of that, are you asking are they then unclean?

Is that what you're asking? Well, I was saying verses 16 and 17, it seems to separate the man and then the 18, the man and the woman. And neither one of them seems to say that they're sinning. It just says they're unclean until evening. Right, and the reason about the unclean is... I didn't want to read the passage.

Right. Yeah, the reason they had these kind of laws about cleanliness is one, it actually was health-related, and the other, it was spiritually related. Now, the issue ultimately, I'll go reverse it, the spiritual issue is that in Deuteronomy 17, 1, we cannot offer a sacrifice with a blemish, the idea of purity and cleanliness before God. And so God called the Israelites to be separate from other nations, and so these cleanliness laws were there in part to demonstrate their separateness from other groups of people. And it ultimately would point to the cross of Christ because the perfect, clean person of Christ who never sinned, 1 Peter 2.22, is the one who offered the sacrifice of purity to God the Father.

So this is why this ultimately is like that. Also, these things actually possess certain health benefits, and the idea of being strict in certain areas, particularly in a culture like that where they don't have a lot of running water, antiseptics, et cetera, is to remain clean so that germs, et cetera, don't spread. They didn't understand the germ stuff. Now, incidentally, the Black Plague, which I think started in Vienna in the 1500s, I used to have it all memorized all the days, 1544, 1644 I think it was, was abated when the powers that be started implementing Levitical cleanliness laws. Believe it or not, I don't talk about this in history because it validates the Bible and the secularists don't want to do that.

They hate God. But this is what happened, and so the Bible does know about these things, and between the two, the spiritual and the physical, that's why it was written that way. Okay, well, I've just run on with that, and I had never studied that out, and I thought, should I write and ask you, or should I call in?

Sure. But I thought, you know, I'm not going to read it to you. But anyway, I just didn't understand. Right, and that's why. That's what's going on.

Here's a general idea to help. If you read something in the Old Testament, it doesn't make sense, not every time. But put Jesus in it and see if it makes sense. Why would the issue of these bodily fluid emissions stuff be such an important thing? Well, what's Christ got to do with it? Well, everything, in the sense of its representative of purity.

This is why these things are to be unclean and tell things you're taking care of, because ultimately it's a demonstration of cleanliness before God. And the reason for that ultimately is because of who Christ was, and his perfection, and his sinlessness, and his representative through the people of God. And in the Old Testament, it manifested in the law. And in the New Testament with us, it manifests in our hearts.

We follow God, love God, and love our neighbor. Okay? Well, I'm glad you explained that. I just, sometimes people bring that to me, a lot of young people, not this passage particularly, but that question. And I was telling my wife, she said you should write in and tell him instead of talk to him. But I just wanted to call you and talk to you. And thanks for that explanation, Matt. Well, I hope it helps. All right? All right. Okay. Well, God bless.

Okay. Hey, folks, we have three open lines if you want to give me a call. Nick or Barb can both call too.

877-207-2276. Let's get to Dustin from Pennsylvania. Dustin, you're on the air. Hey, Matt.

How's it going? So I've been watching your little, I wouldn't call them debating. I would call it more like apologetic. It is what it is, you know? And so it's not for the point of winning the conversation.

It's more for winning the person's soul, which I can relate to with Jeff Durbin and such. And so I'm a learning Calvinist, and I've pretty much come to this conclusion, which I just need you to either nay or yay it, okay? Okay.

All right. So Ezekiel 36, 26 through 27 says that he gives the new heart, which is like a surgery on his behalf that causes us to do things. And then it's confirmed again in Hebrews 10, 15 through 17.

And then in 1 John 2, 19, it pretty much gives me the impression that once a person is saved, they are saved, and if a person turns away and is not saved, they've never been saved. Is that correct? Yes. All right.

That's pretty much all I need to know, according to John 15, 16. So he definitely chooses us, and that opens the door for him to get all the glory. Oh, now look, hold on a sec before you go. You just said something, I don't even know if you realized it, but you just said something that is critical. You said, and he gets all the glory. That's a sign of understanding. It's a sign of maturity spiritually, that God is the one who deserves the glory, not us. And so the fact that you said that, really, that to me was the most important part, and you are correct.

But also, let me add to this. When I study the Word, I always... Good. I'm glad you do.

What's that? I was going to say, also... No, when I study the... I'm sorry, go ahead. No, it's okay. Go ahead. You're the guest.

Go ahead. So, yeah, when I study the Word of God, I always have this presupposition of, am I getting a little bit of the glory? Because if I am, I'm wrong.

So I'm like, God must get all the glory in this presupposition, and that's how I've come to the conclusion of becoming a Calvinist myself. How old are you? I'm 31. Okay. You're a light years... I guess... I don't know.

You're way ahead of a lot of people, okay? That is exactly the right thing to approach the Word of God with. It's with a state of humility. God receives the glory. We're saved by grace. We're called by grace. We're justified by grace. We're glorified by grace. We're kept by grace.

We're loved by grace. He didn't pick us because of what we could do. He didn't pick us because he saw what we could do if he were to do something with us a certain way.

It wasn't because of anything in us. It was because of everything in him. So, therefore, he gets all the glory. He even grants that we believe.

We've been to 129. He gets it all. Amen.

Good stuff, brother. We've got a break. We've got to go. Okay. We've got to go because there's a break, okay? All right.

God bless, buddy. All right. Talk to you later. Hey, folks.

You have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show.

Let's get to Diane from Massachusetts. Welcome. You're on the air.

Hi, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

We've talked once or twice before, but not in depth. Okay. And, for me, the biggest stumbling block in Calvinism is limited atonement.

Okay. It's hard to comprehend why God, who's infinitely powerful and infinitely merciful, would choose to send his son for only a limited number of the people he created and let the rest suffer forever. And it's more than just a theological debate. It's really a pressing question for a lot of people and one that has a lot of ramification.

I think it's worth digging into. Do you realize that the statement – and I'm saying this very delicately, trying to be very gentle here – the statement you're giving is emotional. It's an emotional thing. And I'm not invalidating emotions.

People will say, well, wait a minute. Why would God do this? Because it doesn't feel right. It doesn't seem right. And what they're doing inadvertently – and I'm trying to be very gentle here – what they're inadvertently doing is saying, I have a standard of righteousness that I think the word of God and God himself must adhere to. And people don't realize that they're doing that when they ask that kind of a question.

Am I accusing you of being bad or nothing like that? It's just, you know, I did the same thing. I'm like, well, wait a minute.

This doesn't sound right until I went to the word. Well, wait a minute. God says, who are you, oh man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, why did you make me like this?

Will it? Does not God have the right to say from the same lump to make one vessel for honorable use, another for dishonorable use? That's Romans 9, 22, 23. God has the right to do that, and he does it. God's answer to those kinds of questions is – and this is the slick version – God's answer is, you're not God. Shut up and sit down.

That's the slick, you know, summarized version. But on the other hand, it's not exactly the most satisfying answer because we do have emotions and we want to be able to answer those kinds of questions. Well, the answer lies in Scripture.

God has the right to do with his creation as he desires, and his ways are not our ways. And think about this. When people say that Jesus paid for their sins, what do you think that means? What do you think that means? Do you want me to answer that? Yeah.

Okay. I have some thoughts in response to what you're saying, and I agree that we have to go to Scripture to get the answers, and I agree that God has the right to do what he wants. But I think that he does give answers in Scripture, and that's what I wanted to look at.

Good. So I'm not an Arminian myself, but it does seem to me that Arminians can make a pretty decent case from Scripture for the idea that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Like, God so loved the world, he doesn't wish that he should perish. He desires all people to be saved. Jesus is the Savior of the world.

We can answer those very easily. Gave himself as a ransom for all. Let me show you something. For the sins of the whole world.

Let me show you something. Okay. Would you agree that whenever it says that Jesus died, or excuse me, that when it says a Christian has died, it only means the believer? The Christian has died to sin, died to the world, died to self.

Would you agree? That it only refers to a believer? Yes. Is that the question?

Well, what I'm talking about is Jesus died. I understand. Would you repeat that for me? I understand. I'm asking a question.

Trust me, I've been doing this for about 30 years, okay? So I'm not saying I get all the answers, but when I ask the question, there's a reason, okay? Because we see in Scripture where it says that we have died to sin, Romans 6, 1 and 2. We died with Christ, Romans 6, 6. We're crucified with Christ, Romans 6, 8. And Colossians 3, 1 through 4 talks about us having died. So it's not the unbelievers who have died with Christ who have died to sin. We don't see any place in Scripture where it says that the unbelievers have died to sin, died to the world, died to themselves. We only see that referencing believers, okay? I don't know if you're aware of that, but do you understand that?

Okay. Now here's a verse. 2 Corinthians 5, 14, for the love of Christ controls us, having included this, that one died for all, therefore all died. Who's the all who died? So who's the all who died? Well, I think if you take that with many other verses in Scripture, I think you could make a case that one, well, and there are others that include that.

But I ask you a question. In light of the Scriptures that teach us that only the believers died with Christ, died to sin, died to the world, and it says he died for all, therefore all died. Who's the all who died?

That's the question. I think believers. Okay, so is it the unbelievers? Is it the unbelievers?

No. He died for everybody who ever lived, therefore everybody who ever lived died. That wouldn't make sense. You see, when he says that God's lived the world, I don't know if you know this, but the word world there, some people say it means every individual who ever lived. Well, how do you know that? Because in Matthew 15, 24, it says that Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was not sent to the whole world.

Did you know that? He was not sent. I think there are other verses that say that he was. Okay, I just quoted you a verse where Jesus says, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15, 24, I just quoted that to you. That's what Jesus said. So you cannot say that he was sent to the whole world, because he said he wasn't. That's what it says. But are there verses then that say that he was?

No, there is not. You don't understand. Jesus said this, and the reason he said this is because of covenant. A covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties. God covenanted with a nation of Israel to send the Messiah.

The Ten Commandments are covenant documents of ten and ten, and I go into that some other time, because the suzerain and the vassal, the big king, the little king, got copies of the covenants, the party making it, the party receiving it. God covenanted with Israel. The covenant required that Israel follow the words and the law of God and to recognize the Messiah. But because the Messiah was rejected by Israel, they broke the covenant.

Therefore, we Gentiles were then grafted in. And that's the theological understanding. Most Christians don't know this. Most pastors don't teach this, because they don't study covenant theology. But that's what the scriptures teach.

In Matthew 15 and 24, Jesus says, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That's a restrictive statement. You cannot say he was sent also to the Gentiles.

He wasn't. He negates that. But it's prophesied. In Genesis 12-3, God says to Abraham and you, all the nations shall be blessed. And Paul quotes that in Galatians 3-8 and calls it the gospel, because God knows that the covenant will be broken, and we'll be grafted in. But when the Jews were walking around, the Messiah was never to be for the Egyptians. They would never have thought that. The Messiah was coming for Israel.

That's always how it was. So, in fact, Jesus even says, and I think it's Matthew, get this, Matthew 10, 5 and 6, These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them, Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans, but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus even instructed the Jews, his own disciples, not to go to the Gentiles and not to go to the Samaritans, but only the Jews.

Because Jesus was under the law, Galatians 4-4, and had to fulfill the law, which was covenantally required. So, that's what it means. So when it says God's love of the world is talking about all the nations, that's what it is. And when you quoted 1 John 2, 2, where he's a propitiation known for the sins of the whole world, the word worlder means all the nation groups, all the ethnics, all the people. And also I'm going to assume you don't understand or don't know that the word propitiation does not mean that it has the potential of satisfying God.

It doesn't. It means it's the sacrifice that actually removes the wrath. The propitiatory sacrifice actually removes it by the act of the sacrifice. It's a propitiation from the Greek holosmos. That's what it means. So if he is the propitiation that removes, not makes it potentially remove depending upon if they trust or not, that's not what it means. It's actually removed. Yom Kippur, the high priest would go in and offer a propitiatory sacrifice in the holy of holies, sprinkling the blood on the mercy seat, and in so doing the wrath of God was removed from Israel by that offering right there.

It occurred. He's the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. That means he removed the sins of all the whole world. Does that mean every individual? It can't because then people would have to go to heaven, everybody.

They can't have that. See, the thing is people don't study what these words mean. They just say, well, he means all. Well, I can show you in Romans 5, 18, where it says through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men. So also through one act of righteousness, that's Jesus' sacrifice, there resulted justification of life to all men. Justification means you're saved. But what does the all mean there? It can't mean every individual ever lived, can it?

I would say that it does. So everybody's justified? So everybody's justified, right? Yeah, I mean, if you look at the parallelism in Romans 5, there is a parallel between the first Adam and the second Adam, that as in Adam all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive. That's 1 Corinthians 15, 22.

So who's the all who are made alive? I think the all who fell in Adam, that the extent of the redemption in Jesus is every bit as great as the extent of the death in Adam. And in fact, Paul says that even more so, even more, it's greater the redemption that Jesus... Let me ask you. Romans 5, 18, there resulted justification of life to all men. Justification means a declaration of legal righteousness, which is accomplished by faith in God.

Romans 3, 28, Romans 4, 5, that only occurs to believers. It says resulted justification of life to all men. Who's the all?

I think it's all men. So you're saying all people are justified. That means all people go to heaven.

Is that what you're saying? That is the conclusion. So you're a universalist. Well, Romans, excuse me, Matthew 3, 29, Matthew 25, 46, Revelation 14, 11, and 20, 10, says people go to hell. So how can they go to hell if their sins are forgiven and they're all justified? Well, because you're taking the verses that indicate that the atonement is limited or that the salvation is limited. Oh, so you are a universalist.

Okay. Look, universalism is a Christian heresy. It's a Christian heresy, and what you're doing is failing to understand what the Word of God says. You deny the fact of that.

In fact, I've got a little homework for you. 1 Samuel 3, 14, where God says that he swears that the iniquities of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. So they cannot be saved because God said their iniquities would never be atoned for. So your universalism has just proven false. Okay? You're believing a heresy.

You're believing a heresy. Hey, folks, we're out of time. Clay from North Carolina called back about the LDS stuff.

Tom, let's talk about the loss you put on of Israel. Call back tomorrow. Okay, sorry for waiting so long, buddy. Missed you. May the Lord bless you all, and by his grace, back on there tomorrow, we'll talk to you then. God bless you all.