Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

There we go, all right, buddy. Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. Hope you're all having a good time. And I'm trying to find something here on the web.

I can't find an idle verse I was going to go to and talk about something. Hey, look, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 8772072276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. Um.

And you can send me an email. That's easy to do also. I just send an email to info at carm.org. Info at carm.org and put the subject line radio comment or radio question. And we can get to them.

All right, let's talk to Keith from California. Keith, welcome. You're on the air. Oh, hello, you there? Keith.

Oh, hey Matt, it's uh Jermaine, actually. Oh, okay.

Okay. There we go. Hey, a little bit odd there.

Okay, well no big deal.

So what do you got, buddy? What's up, man? Yeah, I just wanted to take a stab at your question from yesterday about. rebuking, I believe it was the Mormons and Some of these other cults. for for me, from what I've seen from people I know, It seems to be a situational thing.

where some people need a strong Rebuke. Like immediately, but I found that a lot of people I've seen who I've known who come out It starts with a conversation and like just a healthy. you know, just it might get a little bit tense, but I know you've been through this for many, many decades, but I think we're a lot of folks who are kind of on fire and want to get out there and. hold the Christian flag, that they seem to do more attacking And then it justifies a lot of stereotypes that the cultists are fed versus having conversations with people. who are open to it and just having you know reason kind of went out because I've seen a lot of folks who are just They're just brainwashed.

to the point where they're looking at you as if You have no idea what you're talking about, but the only thing that seemed to reach some people I know is. using the same techniques, having them question what they believe. Like, okay, well, this Is from the scripture does not conflict with The Book of Mormon, and then starting to go over things that I found a lot of them just were not aware of. You know, and I've met some people who are very nice, genuine, and they've They believe that they're out there for Jesus Christ, but they have no idea. that they're under a false gospel.

It's true. And um It's difficult to deal with people in cults, and I'm not trying to say it in a whiny kind of a way, difficult to deal with them, but it's difficult because of the spiritual blindness that's occurring, like in Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, Eastern Orthodox Roman Catholics. I find it fascinating that people will just refuse to believe God's word. Uh you give them evidence, you give them truth, but they don't care. And uh Anyway, but this deception thing and rebuking them and things like that, I always just tell people, you know, be as gentle as possible, long-suffering as possible, and just try and witness.

Be patient, be kind, and try and plant seeds. And it's in the context I was talking the other day about rebuking, sharply rebuking, as Titus 1.13 says, that's to those who aren't the religious leaders and so who are working against the true gospel. And they are openly working against it. They think they're telling the truth, but they're just openly working against it. And so then you're rebuking them, but yeah.

Uh-huh. Yep. That's right. Yeah, no, it's I agree. I think there are some people who are Well, leadership.

Who are aware of the truth, but they don't want to leave the culture.

Now they deserve a very strong rebuke because that's That's a different category. You know, that's like people in Nazi Germany saying, well, yeah, I know they're killing a few million people, but we're good. Yeah, that's bad, but I think that when it comes to the lot of the youngsters I've I've met, Most of them genuinely think they're doing good. And they're generally shocked. Same thing with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

which I was going to call back on another show. I I've seen people negatively affected by these blood rules these bands and then all of a sudden they have another miraculous revelation or new light and They just wiped out eighty years of their own doctrine.

So the millions of people who were affected previously are kind of left hanging in the wind and some some to their depth Because they refuse a simple blood transfusion and that those people deserve strong rebuke because that's That's in a category of just openly just wickedness in my opinion. Oh yeah. Yeah, the Jehovah's Witness cult, you know, and and the Mormon cult. Um Same kind of thing. They have these.

Mm. Brainwashing methodologies of getting people to believe things that are just simply not biblical. But you're right about that, the, you know, Jay Debbs with the. Um Transfusion stuff, the blood stuff, you know, they take things out of context. It it's just it's sad.

But um Yeah, I'm with you. I get it. And when do you rebuke strongly? When do you just correct politely? Is it's uh it's tough.

Especially when those people think that they are serving God when they're not. They're not serving the true living God. They're serving their false prophets and false stuff. We are. It got me thinking about a lot of different things we were to talk about, actually.

But yeah, there's just a lot of stuff. Lots. This Yeah. Yeah, and finally, my my uh good childhood friend who's Sons are playing a BYU right now. They're uh I think they're starting, but I think I told you about them before.

They're a family of 10. And I believe Eight, seven, or eight of them came out. of Mormonism that was by reading the Bible. And the Bible exclusively without the influence of Stuff they knew they were conflicted about. And I think we can encourage people just to do that.

and accept that as God's real revelation, then you know, that's where we're starting to win some souls here. Amen. I mean, I'm not winning anything. Yeah, I know what you mean. But it's the power of God's word.

You're right. A lot of Mormons have come out by just reading the Bible. Jehovah's Witnesses also, when they get away from the overarching A filter that the watchtower puts upon them. You have to look at things this way. When they get away from that, people start, hey, wait a minute, that's not what the Bible teaches, you know, their group.

And the same thing with the Roman Catholics. There's a book I used to have it. I don't know if I've still got it packed away or whatever. But it was 50 priests, 50 Catholic priests, who left Catholicism and became Protestants. And it was because they started reading the Bible.

Or it is believing what the Bible said. And that's always the motif of the enemy of the gospel is to get you to believe that the Bible is just not really trustworthy. Or if it is trustworthy, it can only be understood by a certain group of people who will then tell you what it means. And either way, the method is to prevent people from just reading God's Word as though they don't have the ability to understand it. Of course, you can understand it.

God can make you understand it. It says His Word. And just read it. But a lot of people don't want to do that because they get very uncomfortable. They think they might find something that disagrees with their false religion.

You know, for example, 1 Timothy 6:16, it's talking about God the Father who dwells in an unapproachable light, who no man has seen or can see. You say this of the Mormons, and it proves Joseph Smith lied because Joseph Smith said that he saw God the Father. The Bible says you can't. And they just they don't they don't b want to believe the word. They don't want to believe it.

They b want to believe what their heart tells them, what their senses tell them, what their their church tells them, what their people tell them, not God's word. And so they are they're deceived and they're self-deceived because they deny the truth of the clarity of God's word. Uh but this is uh Regular. It's something I've experienced thousands of times talking to different people for 46 years of doing this. It's been just thousands of times encounters.

Like that. But yeah. 50. Brian Beacon has that book. What's the name of that book, A-R-I-D, Aaron?

What's the name of that book about the priests leaving? I I could visualize it in my head, um but I can't remember The title. I have so many books. I gave away a lot. I gave away like 3,000 books.

I just gave away too many to carry, too many in the pack. Anyway, I'm rambling now.

So there you go, Germaine. Yep. All right.

Well, thanks a lot, Matt. Appreciate the. Time for the conversation. God bless you. All right, you too, man.

God bless. God bless. All right.

So, okay, so I've got one of the board of directors here. and uh here at the house Dave and um You know, he comes up from California every now and then. We just spend a couple of a week or two just working around the house here. It's kind of fun, just guy stuff. And um he was doing his devotions this morning and he He puts two and two together.

He said, Hey, Matt, look at this. He says, Remember, Matt, when you talk about Islam and how Islam does not. Have the word of Yahweh, the word Yahweh in it. Because in the NASB, at least the text I'm looking at, the word Yahweh occurs 6,517 times. That's the name of God in the Old Testament.

And I've used this many times with Muslims, saying why is it that if the Quran is true, representing the true God of the Old Testament as well, how come his name never occurs in the Quran? And I've used this many times.

So Yahweh occurs 6,517 times, and it's the verb to be, and it's just I am.

Okay, so I said to the Muslims, why can't you just have, why couldn't Allah have simply have said his name is I am, which would have been the same as. as what uh the Bible says. It's the same God. 6,517 times it occurred in the New Testament, it's going to be in the Old Testament. And not once in the Quran.

So he was reading his devotions, and he says, Hey, look at this. And I get up this morning, he was already up before me. And let's check this out. This is Deuteronomy 23, starting at verse 26. How long is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehoods, even those prophets of the deception of their own heart, who intend to make my people forget my name?

by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot my name because of Baal. Fruit. And uh The issue of forgetting their name. And I think there's other verses here. I did a research.

I forgot the exact verse. At least I thought I had memorized it when he showed it to me this morning. And. I couldn't repeat it, couldn't find it again, so I had to do a search.

So. It's really interesting. And uh let's see, I'm gonna do this. Let's see, forget. Bye.

Let's see if I can find it different ways. Different. Yeah, that's Deuteronomy 23-27. You intend to make my people free. Forget my name.

Wow That's r so interesting to me. Because um The false prophets will not want to promote the true and living God. Yeah. And uh And I'm looking through more texts that have things like this in it. But I'm going to do a study on this.

And this idea of forgetting the name of God, that's what Satan wants you to do. He wants you to forget his name. And it's just interesting. That's what Islam does. They don't use the name of God.

They don't use Yahweh. They don't use the I am, I think. Very interesting. Very interesting. Very interesting stuff.

So, anyway, hey, look, if you want to give me a call, the number is 8772-07-2276. And, hey, Aaron, thank you. He found the name of the book, Far From Rome, Near to God. Testimonies of 50 Converted Catholic Priests. That is correct.

See, now he said that.

Now I remember it. And good stuff. I'm going to have to see if I can. Because I had it in Hardbound. Yeah, hard copy.

But I have too many books. Hard copy. Yeah, Far from God Rome, Near to God. Yeah, it's on Amazon. I was looking.

I like books and, um Uh I like books in in Kindle or whatever, you know, I can get stuff like that. Look at that, man. That's really good stuff. Far from by Richard Bennett and Martin Buckingham. and it's only in paperback.

And I'm trying to look see if I have it in um in digital forms because that's where I like to go through and read them. There's the music. If you want to give me a call, 8772-07-2276. You can also, if you want, email me info at carm.orginfo. at CARM.org.

We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, it is so easy to do. Just dial 877207-2276. You can also email me, info at carm.org, info at carm.org, put in a subject line, radio comment or radio question, and you can get. Maybe get yourself read on the air. Like, I'm going to go through some stuff right now.

We have nobody waiting, so I'm going to go through some of the. Um Okay, where are you going through that? Order and decency in the church and uh Let's see, reading through scanning as I'm talking here. Being 66 ministry, find myself mostly in the Psalms. Curious, what it is.

What I said as I'm curious as to what you do, as that might give me some motivation. Oh, okay.

to do what? Uh Curious about your way, you have personal devotions. Oh, okay, okay. People have asked that, you know, personal devotions that I do, and um. It's really kind of odd.

I don't really do personal devotions because I'm studying the Word of God a lot. And so my devotions are kind of blended in with just doing apologetics. Occasionally, what I'll do is I just read the Word just to read the Word. There's nothing going on in my mind, nothing, just reading what it says. And I probably should do that more often, but sometimes I just read just to read.

Read the word. But my mind has got so many attachments to concepts and ideas that I'll read just to read. Hey, wait a minute, I could use that for this. It's so. It becomes difficult sometimes.

And uh You know, and a lot of people have any problem, they just read devotionally and they're apologists, and they can do that. I'm like, well, how do you know? I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about that.

So that's just what I do. That's just what I do. All right, now let's get to another one. Oh. Let's see.

Audiobook version of the courses. We don't have those yet. That's one thing we want to do. And. We're going to be working on some stuff here.

We've got some ideas. I don't know if I talked about this one before.

Someone says they have Tourette's syndrome. I don't know why he struggles so with his faith, he says. And it's difficult to trust that he's saved, even though I know very clearly he is. Typical to trust God who bear the burden of sin. You know, he was, you know, that's interesting.

I have a friend who also contacted me and was saying the same thing. And this is not that uncommon where people struggle about their own faith and their own assurance. And it never concerns me. in a in a bad way, you know. I'm concerned in a pastorally way, pastoral way.

But uh I'm not really concerned ultimately because people who are worried about their salvation are usually the ones who are saved.

Okay. And if they're worrying or doing enough or not doing enough right or wh whatever, I put you know, put their pieces in the proper place. You know, it's not an issue of doing right. And you know, they'll say, well, they they have these these thoughts or these ideas or they don't feel saved sometimes. And I and that's what I'll talk about with them.

You don't have to feel saved. To be saved, that's not the issue. Don't trust your heart, trust the word of God. I always point people to the word. What does it say?

Do you believe the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? And they say, Well, yeah. I said, Do you sure really believe that? Yeah. Do you feel saved?

No, I don't feel saved.

So, which is it you're going to appeal to? Your feelings or what you know to be true about the resurrection of Christ? Because 1 Corinthians 2:14 says the natural man cannot or does not, I should say, receive the things of God for their foolishness to him. He does not receive them. If it doesn't receive them, then if you have received and believe and affirm that Jesus Christ is God in flesh, it's because you're saved.

The unbelievers don't do that. Mm. So I try and get people to focus on who and what Jesus is, what he's done. Don't ever trust your feelings about your salvation. Don't trust your feelings.

This is what Satan wants. He wants you to develop truth based on a testimony. a feeling. That's what Satan wants. The Bible never says be transformed by the renewing of your feelings, it says be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

And that's what we're to do. Transformed by God's word, transformed by the renewing of our mind of what God's word has says in His Scripture. And uh What I would do if I were, you know, if any of you are out there, you're struggling, is understand that. Faith is granted by God, Philippians 1:29, and God grants that you come to Christ, John 6:65. Trust in what God has done, be the transformed by the renewing of your mind, as Romans 29.

12:2 says, I'm going to go to that really quickly and just talk about it just quickly. Um He says in verse one of Romans twelve, he says, Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. Notice in here that Paul is not saying you have to make yourself feel right or feel confident or have good feelings about it. He doesn't do that. He says, I urge you to present your bodies as living holy sacrifice, acceptable to God.

This is your work of service. You think it's always comfortable? Of course not. You think it makes you feel good all the time? Of course not.

He says in verse Romans twelve two, And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good, acceptable, and perfect. Yeah. And uh When we look at this, the transformation of our souls is not by feelings, as Mormonism says, you know. You got a testimony of Jesus. You got a testimony of the Holy Spirit.

Testimony, I testify to you that Joseph Smith is a true prophet. I testify to you, the Book of Mormon is true. They have a feeling, a spiritual feeling that they know. How do you know it's from God? I asked Mormons.

How do you know it's from God? Because God wouldn't let me be deceived like that. How do you know? How do you know? He's had a deluding influence on people.

2 Thessalonians 2 talks about it. Jesus speaks in parables, so people will not be saved. Mark 4:10 through 12. And so, what makes you think you're not being deceived? You know, and it's letting up your mind.

No, that's not what cults do. They don't want your mind, they want your hearts and your feelings because that's what they will use to control you.

So, anyway, that's what uh that's what goes on there. Let's get to Stephen from Scotland or Stephan. Hey, man, how are you doing, brother? God bless. Hey, brother, and greetings from Scotland, the land of.

Where men were killed, they're not scars, they're kills. The lad of kills. Yeah. Uh the land of Haggart, and last but not means least, the land where John Knox was born. That's right.

He was a mighty man of God, that's for sure. Absolutely. You sure was. I'm going to I've got a question, but I want to go a little bit off topic first, just listening to to what you were talking about there as I was waiting on and waiting for you to pick up a call. Um about feelings.

and about people doubting the salvation I think you were talking about. Yeah. There was a there was his brother is a a guy They go to the church that I go to. And he was telling me, um, one on one that You sometimes don't have salvation. And he went into some details and I went straight to the Param website.

I don't have really I'm not a teacher, so I don't have really I love things, you know, to tell him, but I went to Carmen website. And just what you were I found a great article o on your website where you talk about do you believe Jesus was God in the flesh? Do you believe that he was crucified and risen again? But if you believe all of that, Your faith's in Him, your faith's not in your feelings and what you think. If your faith is completely in Jesus and what He's done, then your salvation is there with Jesus.

Amen. Yeah. It was a great article. Yeah. Well, thanks.

Praise God. Great articles. Many, great, many great articles on COMS website. I think so, too. Since I've only written about 5,000 of them.

All right.

Hey, hold on, brother. We got a break, okay? Can you hold on? All right.

Okay. Hey, folks, we write back after these messages. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We write back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. As I was saying, if you want to give me a call, you can: 8772-07-2276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. Let's get back on with Scott from Scotland. I mean, Stephen from Scotland. Welcome, brother. Back on.

Hey, maybe I should change my name to stop.

Okay. So my question, Matt, is basically I just want to touch base on your warning track that's on the current website. Uh it's a really great um track. I find it out many of them. I think they're great in exposing all these concert teaching and what they're not telling people.

Um and in light of the recent uh Jehovah's Witness uh blood transfusion changes. Do you think it warrants a slight heavy change or or or or another look at the wanted track because And the one in track is this year for the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. Blood transfusions are sinful. But that's slightly changed now their beliefs, right? Do you think it warrants maybe a re-look at this warning track?

Yeah, it's probably worth looking at'cause I wrote it like forty years ago.

So um I actually kind of forgot about it. But it's we've passed it out and uh for a while there I was keeping track of where it was being passed out over the United States. Hundreds and hundreds of places you can print it up and stuff like that.

So maybe I should go back in there and. Um and update it a little bit. And I'm thinking out loud, update it a little bit and then uh encourage people to to print it up because it's free. I print it up and you can you know, eight and a half by eleven and landscape mode and you can get three tracks. Yes, yes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I I ha I hand them out in the st I hand them out in the streets here. I met well, I was handing them out one time. Um I'm I met a gentleman who When I handed him this This one in trial said to me, He says, I used to do something similar. Uh, so you maybe have not heard of this TV.

There was a TV show over here, you maybe haven't heard of it. But it was called uh Watch Out Beetle's about and it was Sheremy Beadle. It was like uh oh It's uh Com comediac. Uh, kind of a TV show, it was called What Shout Beatles About, and I asked him, I was Uh She says to hand out some s something similar and I says, What did you publish your chat called? And he done uh a funny pun on What Shout Beatles about.

And he had his his title was Watch Out Mormons about So we kind of laughed. And they asked why he stopped doing it. I can't remember what he said, they asked him why he stopped handing out, you know, exposing this religion. Come every come every side which did Yeah. Yeah, it's a very effective track.

Actually, I don't know if you ever heard of Walter Martin. Um but he was the Bible answer man for many years and he wanted to order a hundred thousand of them and uh have advertise on his radio show to be distributed. And then uh he passed away before that happened. But um Yeah, so there you go. That's right.

I I remember calling on one time before and you told me that story. Yeah, I remember it. Yeah. Yeah, and uh it's a it's great. It's a very good track to uh inoculate uh inoculate uh people from joining Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses.

You just they go what they teach what yeah. Yeah, it's like you said, I think maybe on your website you said that the fact it's easier to It's less to stop people going into a cult than it is getting them out of a cult. That's right. That's right. And that warning track is very effective.

In fact, one of the stories we I've got is we printed it up and I was in San Diego County and they had a a mall Uh called North County Fair. off the 15 freeway. And um so I got a bunch of guys together and we so imagine the mall is like a circle, you know, just of looking in the mall, the buildings are in the middle and the parking lots all the way around it. Not an exact circle, but that you know, that works. And uh So I said, okay, you go over to 1 o'clock, you go to 3 o'clock, positions, 5 o'clock, 7 o'clock.

Don't take your phones. And I did research and I found out that you can pass literature out on private property that's open to the public. A mall is private property open to the public.

So because it's Like that, you can then pass out literature. It's legal to do that. And uh but when a representative asks you to leave, you've got to leave. And so um We did this, and I said, when we're all done in about an hour or so, just we'll meet across the street at a certain restaurant. And we did.

So we're passing stuff out, and one guard came to me after about a half hour. What we did was we put these tracks on windshield wipers. I said to people, don't talk to anybody. Just put them on windshield wipers. And just go to the next person, the next car, next car, next car.

Because if the cars go in, then you can get, we got, I don't think it was. We get six hundred out an hour. And there was like ten of us.

So we're talking a lot of stuff. And the people got upset. They were asked to leave, and he said, You call your friends and you tell them to. to stop it and I said I don't have my phone on me. Which is true.

So anyway, so We then met at the place a couple hours later. We got out, I think, five or six thousand tracks. Six months later, I'm talking to Mormons, and they go. Long story short, they said, You're the guy who did that track? I said, Yeah.

And one guy looks at the one Mormon missionary looks at the other guy and said, That's the one that started all this trouble that we've had. Yeah. Said, well, there you go. You know, so it works. It was an effective track.

And, uh, Yeah, it was very effective. It's really great, man. What I really like about the track as well is it's not just about the the what will it cost uh the moms and the JWs or teachers. You also touch a base on the gospel for the Bible teaches and the sources. kind of laughed.

When I first read the track, I kinda smiled because You know, for the Mormons, you've got the sources and the journal of discourses and whatnot. For the JWs, you've got sources.

sources like you can live forever in paradise on Forever magazine. And for the Bible stuff, it's like, well, uh, you'll find it in the Bible basically. The sources is on the Bible, which is just great. Yeah. That's right.

It's there, and everybody can get to it. It's very easy. Just on car and just look up a warning track. Warning tract. And it just warns people.

It's great. because because you can hand these out in a subtle way. And it's got the gospel on it as well. Yeah. Yeah, I I forgot about it actually.

Thousands upon thousands and thousands have been distributed across America. And and also uh I've heard other people in in Europe have done the same thing.

So praise God.

Well, it's just me that's hand'em out in my little part of Scotland, so we're not talking thousands. Maybe I should get more people and get printed out more. There you go. Yeah, just just to like uh I should write something up on Islam, you know, do an Islam track, a warning track on Islam. Yeah.

Should be good. Yeah. Anyway, that was all, but I just want to touch base on the GW bit about the book transcriptions and whether you thought it wanted a relick at your warning track. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think it warrants updating because it's been 40 years.

Literally 40 years. I got stories about it. And one more time, really fascinating calling long distance. We were in Orange County, which is near Los Angeles, and I lived in San Diego, and people came down and they were passing out the warning. We were going to a Jehovah's Witness convention.

This guy comes up to me and he says to me, Hey, have you ever seen this? And he's showing me my warning tract. And I said, Yeah, I've seen that. He goes, This thing is great. He says, I blah, blah, blah, blah.

We've been passing it out. He says, I want to know who wrote it. Yeah. I said, well, you're talking to him. And he was so blown away.

What?

So it was fun. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's right. It was. It was good. Praise God, eh?

Praise God. That's all we can say. All right.

Absolutely. Absolutely, brother. All right, brother. Nice speaking to you. Take care and God bless.

Thanks for taking my call.

Okay. God bless. All right, all right. I enjoyed that. That was fun.

All right, let's get to Sam from Ohio. Hey, Sam, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, thanks a lot. My first time on the show.

Well, good. Good, good, good.

So, good. Yeah. My question has to do with music.

So I'm just curious if you're familiar with a view within like the Independent Baptist movement. That is very against like contemporary worship styles. And if you would, uh, you know, been familiar with that. You and what your thoughts were on it. Yeah, to be against contemporary worship styles, there's nothing wrong with being against it, there's nothing wrong with loving it.

because the Bible doesn't say that don't have anything contemporary. In Psalms it tell it tells us to use uh stringed instruments, timbrels, uh percussion, uh horns. And it says to use these in worship.

So, okay, does it say that we're only supposed to use syncopation? A lot of people, a syncopation basically is one note per syllable. And you know, a mighty fortress is our God, like that. And so contemporary they break that pattern. And so some old styles of syncopation, and where a lot of hymns are done, they say that's the way, that's the godly way.

Well, how do you know? And so They can have that view. They just can't impose it on anybody else if they don't like it, like contemporary worship. That's them. But they can't say it's good or bad.

Yeah, yeah, because I've I've been familiar with a lot of people that like would say that it's you know outright sin'cause you're dabbling in in sensuality is what they would say. Oh, well, you know, I would say show it to me in scripture. Show it to me in Scripture, not from the book of second hysterectomy. Not opinions show me scripture. Hey, hold on, brother.

We got a break, okay? Hold on. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. That'd be worth talking about, is that very issue of contemporary worship. We'll be right back.

Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276.

Sam, are you still there? Yep, I sure am. All right.

Yeah. So, um You know, some people like contemporary worship and some like hymns. I don't do well in a church that sings hymns. For some reason, they bore me and they sap the spiritual strength right out of me. There you go.

Am I in sin for that? No. But different people have different styles and those who impose a style on somebody else say, You can't have contemporary worship because it's sensual and they say, Well, what do you you know, what are you getting that? Yeah. Yeah.

I guess one of the way and for the record, like, I don't agree with them. I come to you know learn that scripture teaches otherwise, but basically the way that their reasoning goes is like Yeah, when you look at like certain rhythm patterns in like rock music, for example. they would say that it it evokes like a Central movement of the body, which they would. equificate with centrality. Um but you know, when you look at usical response Uh, how people within different cultures respond to music, which is different.

It's not like this unilateral black and white thing that that. You know, they they they have a desire for holiness, which is good, but I think it it's overly zealous and it can actually you know, tendon to legalism when you make it where you're enforcing your particular standards as you know, normative and appropriate for all Christians and anyone who doing so is you know dabbling in descent.

So, yeah, another line of reasoning that they'll use is, you know, association, like because contemporary worship music but have a style that's similar to like rock music is they would say, you know, because of the negative associations from rock music, especially back in like the sixties and seventies and eighties. Um we should and we shouldn't Mex, you know Christian lyrics with ungodly music styles. That's not true. That's bunk. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Sorry. It's a genetic fallacy at the end of the day. And it's also, you know, when you look at. the origins of the instruments that are mentioned in the Old Testament, like all the ones that I've ever looked up, they actually have their their roots actually in, um, like idolatrous worship that was in the Near Eastern area.

So it's not that the music corrupts the musical style or instruments corrupts the words more the vice versa. Right, like when Jesus It was wholly touched. unclean things that made The unclean clean, not vice versa. Very good. Very good.

That's true. It's a good point. I've used it many times and You're right, and you've also brought up the issue of legalism. We don't want to be legalistic, but people are often very legalistic. That's right.

It's good for you. Mm-hmm. Cool.

Well, good. Thanks for the thoughts on that. I was just curious if you had dealt with that very much.

So thank you. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, I have. All right, brother.

God bless. All right.

Hey, you want to give a shout out, thanks to Un Schieepler. in the ten ten dollar rant inside of um Of uh Oh. Oh my goodness, what's a rumble? My mind just hiccuped there for a sec. And by the way, folks, we do stay on the air by your support.

Please consider supporting us. We do need it. We really do. And if you'd be so kind as to consider $10 a month, all you got to do is go to carm.org. And at the top of the page, you'll find the word donate.

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So that we can then support the missionaries and not have to skip like we did this month with some of them. All right, let's get to Scott from Washington. Scott, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, good day to you, my friend.

I uh I just sort of had a question, kind of a question about Christian counseling versus secular counseling. you know, the church I go to and my pastor, he's a chaplain. He does funerals. Point being, he's very busy on top of being the pastor of our church. And so he doesn't have a whole lot of time for that.

And that's okay.

So, you know, a few months back, I was fired from a really deep Job where I got to serve people. It was a kind of wrecked me a little bit for a while.

So my wife wanted me to do counseling and I said, okay. And so today was my second. session with this guy and You know, that's a field where there's a lot of wokeness and stuff like that.

So I was pretty sketched out at first. But we had a session today that went just amazingly. And I got to see that he's actually a Christian. And I was talking about just some stuff about how I don't really allow myself to feel emotions or at least sorrow because I don't find any benefit in sorrow. There's benefit in shame.

And if you use it right, there's even some benefit in controlled anger to kind of propel you towards. Getting things right, perhaps. But I told him there's no, I don't see any benefit in just pure sorrow. And he asked me, What do I think about Matthew 5:4? And uh I looked at it and we talked about mourning and losing my daughter when she was born and things like that.

And so, you know, before I would have just Said, I don't think secular counseling is that great, but it turns out for me, and God happened to pair me up with a Christian guy who knows the Bible pretty well, as far as I can tell. And it's just It's just awesome. And I I just didn't think that could be the case. But But uh my question generally is do you You know, would you recommend Christian counseling above secular counseling in all areas?

Now, that's the qualifier in all areas. And I don't know all areas, so I can't say yes or no. What I could say is that you don't want to have a counselor who would speak things that are against the Word of God. There can be very talented counselors dealing with loss, with various things, and they can help through issues. And my wife, for example, went and saw a counselor for depression because of her health issues that were just horrible.

And rightly so. And I would go and drop her off, and I didn't have any problem with it. And I think, I don't know if he was a Christian or not. but he uh was able to help her. by just simply being there and talking about normal grieving things.

She already knew the theology, married to me, and you know, we've had many conversations. She already knew God was in control. She already knew. And um And so it was helpful to her.

So, you know, it just depends on the situation. That's what I would say. You know, and who and what. But normally, yeah, try and go for a Christian. That's what I would say.

No. Okay, yeah, that's more or less what I think too. Um but you know I always like to double check with someone else to see what they might think. Um So that's basically the only question I had. I did have one more.

It's more of a question of permission. You know, I heard. Uh Jermaine yesterday talking about apologetics and how he's learned so much from debates. And I was like, yeah, me too. Like God used debates in my life like crazy and blessed me with that.

And that's what sort of led me to I just started, I've told you this, but I've started a new debate channel and I'm trying to get it up and running. And I was just wondering i if you would mind if I sort of plugged my my new channel. If not, I understand. I just want your permission on that. Yeah, I know you're you're a good guy, so go ahead.

I appreciate that.

So, you know, my new channel, and this is more or less a germane, but anyone who's listening, it's called Epic or Epoch Apologetics. And, you know, if you want to come on and debate, my goal is to set up debates and find opponents on good theology to let that be aired out. And, you know, my email is gospelgrace22 at gmail.

So if anybody listening would like to come on and practice that and just get to know each other, feel free to email me, gospelgrace22 at gmail.com.

Okay, well there you go.

Alright.

Well good stuff, brother.

Okay. Well, thank you very much. I will uh let you get to the next caller.

Well, we don't have any, but good. I'll just fill in. We'll be talking about something here. About debates, probably.

Okay. You know what? I do have another question for you if you want. Sure. Um and it's a little personal, but You know, I I was wondering if, you know, maybe you could share some of the things you've experienced or learned.

Thing where God's come alongside you when you were dealing with your own mourning with your late life.

Okay. Yeah, um It's that's kind of a mixed bag because her health was deteriorating for 10 years, and uh, the last two years were bad. You know, you could see it was a decrease in her health, and then a month, and then six months, and then two months. It really ratcheted, and so I was more or less prepared. Uh, as much, I don't want to say hey, it was easy, but for For those who know what that means, you're not surprised by it.

And I was surprised, however, at the suddenness of her passing. Because I was ready and I thought she's going to have another year or two. And anyway.

So the way to deal with it uh for a lot of people i is different. Uh I was more prepped because I I could see her deteriorating and I could Tell, and there's lots of stuff I don't haven't told people. But I showed a friend of mine recently some videos of her. Within two weeks before she passed, and he just says, Oh my goodness, it's just she was in such pain.

So. When you know that someone's in pain and now with the Lord, It's so much easier to be rejoicing in that reality. And so To then grieve is a matter of adjustment, for me at least, adjustment of she was here, now she's not here. The house is emptier because she's gone. And I find myself looking at her pictures.

And then when I start really missing her, wishing she was back, I review those videos and then I'm instantly I just say, I'm glad she's gone. And I don't mean it in a get get rid of her way, but I'm glad this is part of her life is over with. And um And that's it, you know, and that's how I handle it. People handle things differently. And uh I don't say there's a right way or wrong way well, there are right right ways, right or wrong ways.

But for the most part, people disagree differently. They process it differently, they deal with it differently, and as long as you're processing it, and that's one of the things that I've been doing, is I face it and process it. And I talked about it with my friends who've known my wife for years, and I talked to them. In fact, uh her brothers, two of her brothers are still alive and have been thinking about going down there to uh Southern California to see them. Because it'll be therapeutic as well for them as well as me.

You know, you face things, you move forward. And you just do what you can. Yeah that's all you can do. you know Yeah. Yeah, you know, I When when I when my daughter died, I I numbed myself to it.

And I realized today a bit that. I don't know if I've ever really allowed myself to truly mourn. I'm really good at compartmentalizing and just. moving on quickly, but it it is buried and You know, I don't know if I ever did that or not, but after that session I had today, I talked about that a little bit, and my counselor experienced the exact same thing, which is amazing. You know, when I was done, it forced me to just, I just felt this need to drop to my knees and.

Thank God for Everything and I don't know, it felt like maybe I'm moving towards processing that in a good way, and I I hope that's the case.

So I was just wondering, you know, that's all. We got like 30 seconds. Let me tell you this. I believe we have 100 units of grief we've got to go through. Go through them quickly.

Or space them out over a long period of time. Different people are different. I go through them quickly. I face it head-on, and others they can't. That's between them and God.

That's how you do it. And then what if you do this?

Okay, we're out of time.

So there you go. Amen. God bless, brother. All right? Appreciate it, brother.

You too. Hey folks, there you go. May the Lord bless you and by his grace, look back on your tomorrow and we'll talk to you then. Have a great winning win. God bless.

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