Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and your list of Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, as usual, on this lovely day, today's date is June 2nd, 2026. June 2nd, 2026. All right.

If you want to give me a call, the number is 8772072276. And you can also send me an email. That is easy. Just send an email to info. At carm.org.

Info at CARM.org and put a shout out line: radio comment or radio question. And we can get to The stuff wouldn't get to it. And sometimes we do it, and sometimes we don't, because we have calls coming in a lot. And uh right now we have one coming in. We're going to see how that goes.

And if you want to join us, join the The video a room that we have where people come in and chat. You can do that by going to Rumble. It's really easy too. Just go to Rumble and just type in Matt Slick Live. And rubble.com, Matt Slick Live, and you can jump in to the live feed.

And we've got people in there. There's seven right now. It comes up like usually twenty or thirty. And uh people just start chatting. And they're all friendly.

It's really good. And friends have been made in there.

So that's one thing. And you can also go on YouTube. We're having it on YouTube as well. Carm Videos. Just type in Matt Slick Live in YouTube, and you'll see it there too.

You can type in and chat and stuff like that. Not a big deal, but there you go. All right. Now, let's get on the air with Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome.

You're on the air, buddy. Yes, good evening, Masli. What do you think about pastors they be gaslighting their church members? Bye. making them feel they're never going to be good enough.

to enter heaven because basically Their body of sin, or they make them feel they never could never earn their way into heaven.

So it basically keeps them perpetually. Feeling that they're not going to make it to heaven, so they be gas out in them, so they say hello mentally over.

Well, I'm a little confused because no one's good enough or worthy to go to heaven. And the only way we can go to heaven is by the grace of God, and by faith we trust in what Christ has done, and that's the only way.

So I'm not sure.

Well, for example, like I've mentioned in the past, Like the pastors say that, you know, like God told them that seventy percent will stay behind because that leaving rational keeps him gaslighting. I can't understand I can't understand you. You you kind of mumbled for me a little bit.

Okay, okay, okay. Make him feel like they're never Make them feel Like they're never good enough to enter heaven by their own by their only living.

So they have to be kind enough to strive to reach it. I don't know, but that That's not gaslighting, that's informing them of the truth, that they're not worthy and can never be good enough, even though the Mormons think they can, and the Eastern Orthodox think they can, and the Roman Catholics think they can. Uh biblically, no, we're not good enough and can't do enough to get there and Even with God's grace, we can't do enough.

So that's that's okay. He just needs to give them the gospel at that point. You give you, but I'm I'm not talking about somebody who's giving it to a lost person.

Some of people who stuff Saved by grace through faith. But then down the road, they're teaching a church members, you have to Keep yourself Holy enough to earn it. But basically, they try to add works to the grace of God. That's my whole point. They try to make them feel like, well, you're not going to make it in because you've committed a sin or you're not living right.

So basically, I get what you're saying.

So they're Christians, but then they blow it, and he says, because of it, you're not going to make it, implying that salvation is by works. Yeah, those passwords. What needs to happen is there needs to be a ministry that goes around where people are trained. uh to do horizontal tackling. And they get off, you know, they go to service.

You could have it as a service at the church. Where they stand at the the edges of the pew and or the the pulpit area, and when the pastor says something stupid, then these guys just run and like you know, football tackle. I just tapped on right out of the pulpit. That's what I think. I think it'd be a disservice.

But I think the problem is without my own experience, A lot of church members are biblical illiterate about the doctrine of social security because they pay some millionaire attend to.

So they're gonna make them feel What? You know, they're not going to be good enough to enter into that grace or faith, but to make them feel like you're not going to make it in.

So, because, like, I said mentioned in the past. You know, like the men says, well, God told them that 70% will stay behind if they're not living right.

So those things, well, I'm going to make it in. The other thing is that they're just. They're just preaching out of the book of 2. X lax the dist. That's all.

Okay. You've heard of the book Nick's Lax and Disney? What's that? The people that church don't have no discernment to know that it's false. That's the whole problem.

That's why they need to listen to this radio show. That's why they need to listen to this radio show, go to Carm, read up, and go to other good websites that teach good biblical theology and not the stupidity that's taught from a lot of pulpits, which is the case. It does happen.

Okay. So you can't tell you a whole bunch. I mean, that's why I shared your program with people to my friends and my contact list to help them out, but a lot of people. are being bamboozled by a lot of these preachers. Yes.

You got me thinking, that'd be another good book name for the heretical book list, First Bamboozle. That'd be a good book. Second bamboozle.

So I like that. I think I'm going to use that one too. This is bamboozle. You know, I have I say to people, I say, Yeah, that's that's from the book of second hysterectomy or a first colostomy or third moronicals. That would be first bamboozle.

So I think those are pretty good. When I say them to people, they don't get it. I say it. They'll say me tell me something stupid, you know. I'll be it's so, so unbiblical.

They go, Yeah, that's for in the book of 2 Moronicles. They don't they just keep going. They just keep talking like they didn't hear me. But some people in the background, you hear them in the chat room, you hear them laughing. You know, I think second colosh to me is pretty good.

What? I even said once, that's from first colonoscopy. And some people started cracking up. Anyway, I like that. I like that.

That second bamboozle.

Okay, so there you go. All right. All right. All right. You're right.

Look, Alberto, you're right. You call it one of these interesting questions on a regular basis, but. Let me just say that I I'm with you and Look, one of the things we try and do here at Carm is get people to believe biblical theology. You know, I get, in fact, when I get off the air, when you get off, I'll tell what happened last night when I'm talking to people in different venues and the idiocy that goes on. From Christians.

It's just, they're just carrying the book of Moronicals around with them and quoting out of it. You know, it's dumb.

So at any rate. But you're right, Blue. You're right. Okay? I appreciate it.

Okay. All right. Okay, go. God bless. You know, so last night I got on uh TikTok.

And so I walk around the block, and I have this, my phone, I have a headset with a Microphone goes down by the mouth. It has a wind blocker, so I can walk around and uh. And people say, why are you out of breath while I'm talking to them? Because I'm old. I'm 69.

I'm walking around the block while I'm talking to you. And so some people go, well, okay, well, I guess that's okay then. Anyway, so I had these discussions for about an hour and a half. I walk I walked three or four miles. I forgot which it was.

At any rate. And um And so We got these discussions, and I've noticed some really interesting stuff when. When, for example, I just give A straight scripture. A straight scripture. Like this one guy last night.

He was telling me. That uh Mm-hmm. You know, her form theology was bad. And uh I said, Okay, why? And he says, because Jesus died for the whole world.

And I said, okay. What does the word world mean? And he said, well, there's every individual. And I said, and how do you know that?

Well, what else would it mean? I said, you're just saying it. How do you know that's what it means? And uh And he actually quoted 1 John 2.2. Oh man.

And this really happened.

So he quoted 1 John 2:2, which is: He's the propitiation not only for our sins, but the sins of the whole world. And he says, you see, the word world there means The world. And I said, we got to talk and he then said it means all the unbelievers. Which I could ask.

Well, so he didn't die for believers, but anyway, so he died for all the unbelievers. He's a propitiation. I said, Do you know what the word propitiation means? And this is where it really got interesting. I said the word propitiation means the sacrifice that turns away wrath.

It doesn't make it possible. That's what it is. And I read him the quotes from. Bible commentaries, encyclopedias. I read two of them.

on what this means. I'm gonna do that right now, okay? What it means, propitiation. And So, for example, propitiation means the turning away of anger. by the offering of a gift.

That's the Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible. And I said, the other one I have here is the removal of wrath by an offering of a gift. And that's the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, revised. And I said, so the definition Of this, of propitiation, is a sacrifice that removes the wrath of God. It removes it, it's gone.

And I said, Do you understand? He goes, I'll grant that to you for now, not that I agree with it. And I said, Well, do you have any. Counter definitions. I mean, I read em read one to you from Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible and also from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

A lot of scholars in there. That's what they say it means. And uh he said, Well, let's go on. Yeah. And so I said So you're saying that Jesus bore the sin of everybody, right?

And he said, yes. I said, well, and he said he grants the definition for now. I said, okay. You grant the definition of Propitiation for now, so let's work with it. That means that Jesus removed the wrath of God from every unbeliever.

right from your interpretation. if you think the word world means every individual. And This is where it really got interesting because he said, Well, I'm not interpreting it, you are. I said, no, I'm going with what you've agreed to and what you've stated. You said that this definition works, and you said the word world is for every individual.

And I said, Therefore, from your logic, what that means is he removed the wrath from every individual, every unbeliever. How then can they be judged for damnation if the wrath of God is removed from them? And he said, I'm not there to answer that kind of question. Yeah. This is the kind of stuff that goes on.

the stupidity. And it is, it's stupid. It is just it's just Dumb. that when you make a statement, and you affirm a definition and then you apply it And it means exactly what their application is, the consequence of it. And then they just refuse to see what they've admitted to.

That's stupidity. It's dumb. Because it means then that what you're doing is you're acting in a manner that is purposely illogical. To hold a position that you believe instead of submitting to the scriptures. Don't we call that intelligent?

No, we don't. call it sinful. It's dumb. Don't do that. And so I didn't say that to him, but I said, you're being illogical here.

And I said You have stated that the definition is sufficient and it applies to everybody, so therefore British wrath is removed, right? I don't have to answer that kind of question. This is the kind of stuff I come up against on a regular basis. Why is it even Christians will not submit to the Word of God. Very interesting.

Hey, we have Wide Open Line. If you want to give me a call, 8772. 072276. We're right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Just want to remind you that we stay on the air by your support. Please consider supporting us.

I do not like asking, but just... It's needed. And just want to remind you that the only way we can stay on the air is if you support us. And the way to do that is to go to carm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and you can see the word donate at the top of the page. And you can go there, and whatever you support us with is very helpful.

It goes to the ministry in general and helps pay for the radio, helps pay for the salaries of the missionaries, even myself, a little bit, which I'll probably not take pretty soon here so we can get the missionaries going. But I'm just letting you know that we do need that support. And um Just consider supporting us, Carm Denorker. Let's get to Jump.

Well, let's try it again. Jermaine. Hey, Jermaine, welcome, buddy. You're on the air. Hey, Mad just uh Yeah, I'm overseas over here in Japan and I can get my my daily doses.

Yeah, yeah. It's uh something brought me out up here that It was my wife's work, but I was blessed enough to not have to pay, so I had to go. Of course.

So you walking around? Are you towering over everybody? I think they think I'm an anime character, but uh it's um How how tall are you? I'm just curious. I'm about six three, six, three and a half, I guess.

Okay. That would be crazy. I've s I've seen some some large people out here.

Well, I've got a friend who goes to he loved Japan. He's about six six at about three hundred pounds. And uh, you know, I see do they say Godzilla when you when you walk around or what, you know. Anyway, all right, buddy. I'm sorry, man.

Had a little bit of fun.

Okay, so what's up, man? What do you got?

Well, um, I wanted to ask about James five eight, where You know, you keep hearing the phrase of Jesus coming soon. And I know a lot of churches that preach that, and I believe that, but I wonder is the phrase Not fully capturing what's actually going on because for me, Seems like Jesus' coming started. after the resurrection. I don't know if I'm framing that right, but some people I guess like the left behind type folks have when I was a kid, they would preach that as if it was happening like tomorrow and all the signs are there and that I just I I kind of felt like it was in doing all I'll call the logical Study on what is actually being said. Like, I do believe in the second coming of Christ, I just don't.

I don't think a lot of people should be giving times and dates because it really just does a disservice. You're right. And it kind of drives people away, people thinking you're out of your mind.

So. I just wanted to kind of hear you develop that a little bit. Yes, I agree. It's one of the issues of difficulty that a lot of Christians and theologians have had. Because there are more than one place in the scripture where the implication is soon.

So One of the ways to answer it is the issue of the soon is dealing with the next. Uh theological event that's to occur. He's ascended into heaven. And soon Uh he will return. The soon is not like in 20 minutes.

The soon is in relationship to the cosmic events. He's coming back, and that's the next major thing to occur. And that's how I look at it. But you're right, people should not set dates. Unless you're, you know, you went on a date and you get a cup of coffee or something.

But don't set dates. And. I just don't do it. Back in the seventies and eighties it was a big deal that uh Jesus was coming back at a certain time, and prominent pastors were talking about it. They were all wrong.

So yeah. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. you know, just dealing with the passage of time.

from what and maybe you can critique this, but I've always as I've learned more to studying about time as a concept as we know it, When the Lord says soon, or I see soon in God's word. I now take that to be it might be a period of years to us, but for him it's soon because I mean, now you look at it. I think I've been calling you for almost a year or so now. And that seems like it was yesterday. And it just time just flew by.

I I know because I keep track and I have I think I've you've answered over three hundred questions I've had. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I I got a list. No, that that's good, man.

You just send me that list 'cause I could use those to uh to write articles out of. 'Cause I that's what I do. Uh, my list increased because of that. I already have Why don't I'm at 1073 now? It keeps going up.

So well the thing is for me That time just flew right by. And I know as you get older, you look at time. Differently from when you're young, you know, and it's. the passage of time now. To me, it's just if someone says next year, it seems like it's only a few months.

So, in light of eternity, if I hear soon, and then people are. kind of saying, hey, well, it's been a few hundred years, like, well, If you don't look at time the way human beings will look at time, then it's relative. It is so.

So I don't see I don't see those passages Discounting, you know, what Jesus says, like, you know, I come soon. Right. Yeah, and there's different views we could look at about time: prophetic time, God's relationship to time, how he treats it. Um And so Yeah, it'd be an interesting research article, actually, to see how the Bible relates to time. And speaks about it in the events we can draw conclusions out of it.

I think it'd be an interesting study. But but yeah, and and you're right things go quickly You know, my wife passed away six months ago already. I'm like, how'd that happen? It just feels like it was a couple, three weeks and it just flies by.

So Yeah, yeah. It's what it is, you know? And it but you know it's gonna be cool when we get to heaven. And that's not even going to be an issue. We're always going to be present with him.

Why worry about tomorrow? There isn't one. It's just a forever now of bliss. Looking forward to it. Right, yeah, yeah, appreciate that, man.

Thank you.

Okay. Well, all right, brother. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm uh d just just to kind of give you a view of time.

So for me, it's 7:30 in the morning tomorrow for you.

So the way we look at time is completely it almost seems like a man-made thing. Isn't it the third for you right now? June third? Yeah, we're right. I think we're like 15 hours ahead of you or something.

But yeah, it is the third. It is indeed the third. From talking to the future.

Okay, tell them what's gonna happen so I can, you know. you know, buy some stock or something, tell me what's gonna happen so in the future in the future.

So you didn't know.

Okay. Well, actually, politicians will lie, and you will be hungry. I can guarantee you. Wow. I never would have thought that one.

That's new. All right. All right. Okay, brother.

Sorry, brother. I appreciate it.

I'll try and connect with you tomorrow. But God bless you, man. Thank you.

You too, man. God bless. Appreciate it. All right, want to give me a call? We have two open lines: 877-2072277.

7-6, let's get on with John from Colorado. John, welcome. You're on the air. I So uh I I believe it's I'm okay. How are you doing?

Doing all right. Hanging in there. What'd you got, buddy? You are hanging in there. That's for sure.

Hope that there's a break. Yeah, it's true. Boom. My gun's great.

So hang on. We've got a break. All right. We'll be right back.

Okay, buddy. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. We have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, the number is 87720722. Seven circuitry right there.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. This Get Back on the Air with John from Colorado. John, welcome.

You're on again. Probably Um so about the past week I've been thinking on uh the topic of contentment. I believe it's one Timothy six.

Okay. Yeah. So, well, I'd just like to hear your thoughts on that.

Well, I'm content, okay? But I'm not actually doing anything. anybody yell. I'm fine with My sufferer at this But I'm not feeling anything. It seems like Well, then you ask God to help you.

make it better and to uh Work in your heart. A lot of times people think that prayer has to be answered in the next 20 minutes or two days. A lot of times God wants us to pray for long periods of time. and contentment is gained by being in his presence. And then you can ask that he could use you in the process.

So that whatever condition you are in, He can utilize you.

so that he is pleased with you.

Okay. Well I don't seem uh among the wise are very intelligent. I don't see what I can offer anybody. Yeah. Look.

You make the mistake of thinking that you have to be competent in order to be used by God.

Okay. I have a daughter. Right, right. I have three daughters, one of them is an absolute genius with a pencil. She can draw uh faces of people.

Uh you just can't believe how good they are. And I'm not joking. When I show people her drawings, their jaws drop. It's just one of those rarities of just sheer genius. I can pick up the same pencil that she has.

and that she uses. I can barely draw a stick figure. And so it's not the instrument. It's the hand that wields the instrument. And so don't look at yourself as a great instrument or not a great instrument.

That's not the issue, it's the hand. God's hand. that will move you.

So you need to trust in him.

Okay. Well, my point is uh uh complacency.

Okay. Yeah. What about that?

Well, it's just sitting here doing nothing. That's not good. Have you been asking God to be used? I've been wanting to be used to dark and terrible easily. But nothing happened.

I but let me ask you. Have you been asking God We've been asking him. to use you. That's the question. Not, I want to be used.

Have you been lifting it up to God and asking Him? God already knows what I want. I don't have to say anything, he knows me. Yes, you know. Yes, you do.

You'd ask him. I have to say something. The Bible says you have not because you ask not.

Okay. All right. But I I'm gonna ask for an ins insane thing, said I'm going to ask for whatever I want. You're gonna give it to me? I'm just saying, of course not.

Of course it is. Look. You have to ask according to his will, and to ask him to use you is according to his will, but you need to ask, okay? James 2. James chapter 4.

Do you not have because you do not ask? You ask and do not receive because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend it on your pleasures. Ask God, but make sure that your motives are right. And if you want to glorify God with what you have, that's a good motive. and ask him to use you in that, and he'll prep start to prepare you.

It takes a while, okay?

Well, it The way you respond you s you sort of sound like God. It sounds very frustrated This one's I'm asking for the wrong phase. And maybe I shouldn't ask at all because it's all the wrong motor. I was saying, if I'm the tenth, If I'm suggesting they go, look, fine, I don't get anything.

Okay, I didn't ask you If I got that, it'd be. End up the wrong way, and so I'm just going to sit here now and just do nothing. I've given you advice. That doesn't sound right. I've given you advice.

You can do what you want with it. You pray, you ask God to give you the right motives, and to use you and prepare you. And then he will. Because that's what's biblical.

Alright, it takes a while, and it means you have to be trained, means you have to be reshaped by God. That's all.

All right. It's not that hard. It's not fun, but it's not that hard, okay?

Okay, I know I'm very frustrated to talk to. I'm sorry to waste your time. I had the question about contentment. Yeah. And I'm trying to help you.

But sometimes, you know, it does help to Trust the one that You're asking and and I'm just telling you, you need to pray and ask God for the right motives. and then be prepared to be shaped by him, to be used by him.

Alright.

Okay, I'll do that. You are one of our leadership. I can't compete. You're all you you're all we have.

Well you won other people I might see. No, I'm not. No, you have the Lord Jesus. Don't look to me. You need to trust in Christ, all right?

You need to trust in Christ.

Okay? And asking. study them, you somehow understand And that's why we're talking to you.

So why I'll I'll ask God about that, like you said. Good. That sounds good. All right. Okay.

Okay. Thank you.

Good stuff.

Okay. Alright.

Well, there you go. And if you guys want to call me, we have three open lines: 877. 207-2276. Let's get the mark from California. Mark, welcome.

You're on the air. Hi, Matt. How are you doing? You're not right. All right.

So what do you got here if you remember me? Not sure you remember me, but uh, all the way back, um, Escondido.

So I just wanted to You know, say hi to you and uh Thank you. You want to tell me your last name? Maybe I'll remember. Thank you.

Yeah, it's uh it's Mark Marquez. Oh man, that rings a bell. Escondido, I think there was a period of time where we worked at Sony together. Um Seminary, I think, you know. Anyways, back in the day.

Were you in the lab when I was doing all the Excel work at Sony? Is that where were you in there? I might have been in a different group, but we already knew each other. But anyway, that's. That's beside the point.

I just wanted to call him. Sure. Go ahead. Did you go to seminary there? As you mentioned, Sam, right?

No, I I didn't. I didn't. I was just a young kid. I was probably in my young eighteen, nineteen But you were kind. You took me under your wing.

We spent some time together and Okay. Name rings a bell. Oh, it really does. I'll talk to so many people over the years, you know. And, you know, I've been up here in Idaho now for 23 years, moved from Escondido to here.

And, you know, for those who don't know, Escondido, California is in northern San Diego County.

So it's just, but. But yeah. What how you doing? Are you doing all right? I'm good.

I'm good, thankfully. All is well. I just again, I wanted to call and just Reach out and just say, you know, say thank you to you. I appreciate your ministry. It's awesome.

From time to time, I reference the material, and so. It's good. It's good to have that there as a resource. Uh Praise God, man. I appreciate that.

I appreciate that, I really do. He's still walking with the Lord? Yeah, yeah. I've had a bit of um had some some troubles uh roads, but I'm thankful Um to be back on p track and You know Good. Are you still in Escalido?

Yeah, yeah, I'm in San Marcos. Oh, San Margos, okay. Yep, right off the 78 there. That's right. I missed it.

I just miss it. I miss getting down there and going out to the beach and bodyboarding and. And uh, you know, and all that. You remember my wife at all, Anique? Remember her?

I do, I do remember your wife, yeah. Yeah, yeah, she passed away, passed away six months ago. Oh, but um, is that just recent? Was it just recent, Matt? I, I, I'm, yeah, six months ago.

And yeah, she had a genetic uh deformity problem in her body that manifested as she got older and and uh it it ended up taking her. But we've been up here for a long time and you know and I miss San Diego. San Diego is always the home. It was always my home. Even though I grew up in Orange County, San Diego was it.

Just love we loved San Diego. We hated leaving it, but we had to because we couldn't afford a home down there. You know, ministry. No, it's crazy. I tell people I went into ministry for two things: women and money, and I got one woman, and she got my money.

And uh So, you know, I mean, my sincerest condolences, that really is. That's tough. That's really tough. But um I I yeah, I'm I'm that's a shock to know. At some point, if we ever get to chat offline, I'd love to share.

But Sure. Yeah, that's tough. That's really tough. By God's grace, we're okay. I'm okay, though.

There's a break. If you want, man, you can email me, info at Carm.org, your contact info. I'll give you a call sometime.

Okay, brother.

Will do, brother. Will do. Thank you.

God bless you. All right. God bless. Hey folks, we write back after these messages, please, if you want. Stay tuned, we'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking our calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hello, live and welcome back to the show. I just want to remind you that we stay on the air by your support, and we have three schools that you can sign up for. And it's easy to get to.

Just go to learn.carm.org, learn.carm.org, or just go to carm.org, top of the page is the word schools, and you can get in there and We use those to help support the ministry. But you know what? There's a lot of stuff in there. The many, many, many years of experience and debates and teachings and radio and everything put a lot of it right into those schools. And it took me months and months to write.

And you get a great deal of systematic information, very easily accessible, very simple. And I hope that you want to check it out. Just go to carm.org forward slash, well, just top of it. Page. You'll see the word schools.

You can click on that. Let's get to. Elijah from Pennsylvania. Elijah, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. Uh w uh w wanted to talk to you about uh The the f the uh false gospel of uh Faith in keeping the commandments in order to be saved.

So. Uh I don't know if you're like aware of this.

So in the camp of Sean Griffin and other Hebrew roots movements. I've noticed that That quite a few people, famous people from that movement online. They fell away and became atheists because Because they, you know, you know, you know, they fell for this false gospel, and then after they realized they could no longer. Harmonize what Paul said in Galatians with their false gospel of you have to be circumcised, you have to follow the law to be saved. They realized that was a contradiction, so some of them start believing that.

Uh, Paul may have been a false apostle, so they turn away from Paul's letters and all that stuff, and then and then some of them even go as far as to start denying Jesus and they just go completely back to the law. And it it's just crazy, and like it just goes to show you that you know, you know, it's not a true gospel because a true gospel isn't gonna cause all of this confusion and turn people astray like this. You're right, and I've dealt with a lot of them. Um What I find interesting is the clarity of Scripture versus the fog of heresy.

So the Word of God says, for example, Romans 4:5, we mean it says to the one who does not work but believes. I mean, Paul's negating works. And I'll even ask them, these people, these groups, some of those, you know, I've talked to many of them. I say, for example, it says, what it does not work but believe, is Paul removing works? And they say, no.

See, but he says when it does not work, is that removing works? No, it's not. Those including works? Yes. So he says when it does not work, it means he's including works.

You're the good yeah. you get this kind of uh Cognitive dissonance, the cult mind. And that's what I call it, the cult mind. You can't see the truth of what God's word is. And I'm reminded of why Jesus speaks in parables, so people will not be forgiven out of Mark 4:10 through 12.

They don't have eyes to see or ears to hear. It's not been granted to them by God. And I think these instances and occurrences are real examples of that kind of a thing. And it occurs outside the body of Christ, but it also occurs to some degree inside the body of Christ. I'm just giving an example of it.

Earlier in the show, where I was talking to people, and they're Christians who deny the Reformed theology. Which is fine, but then they attack it and call it heresy. And then, when I defend it, they can't answer the difficult questions, and I get called names. I'm a heretic. It occurs everywhere, and it's really interesting to see this.

But back to what you're talking about, you're right, they're teaching a false gospel, they're doing damage. I've dealt with many of them, and it's just an issue of spiritual strength and God's desire to open their hearts and minds to understand the truth because. They can't on their own, and they certainly find ways to deny the truth. That's for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's um Qu n y no you know it's interesting 'cause um uh there's this uh die uh Who passed away a few years ago from COVID? He's a famous Nephilim researcher. His name was Rob Skiba. Have you ever heard of him before?

Oh, I don't know if I've heard the name or not, but it doesn't sound familiar. But go ahead. Yeah, so he also fell for the Hebrew roots movement as well back when he was alive.

So uh so Blood, black, blood, black, from from my understanding, he He understood it differently than like the Sean Griffins do. He understood it as. uh you're saved by faith through Jesus, but but but he believes that, you know, um well once once uh you receive regeneration, that you'll come to the truth of following Torah if if God opens your eyes up to to doing that.

So so he had a different view on it. Yeah, that's more horrible biblical theology, horrible theology. It's not biblical, excuse me. We've died to the law. We've died to the law.

That's Romans 7:1 through 4. We are not there to obligate it, to keep the law because Jesus did it. You know Sometimes I'm talking to people in line, I want to just say, I don't say it, but I want to say, I wish you amateur theologians would sit down and shut up and learn for a while and stop preaching false gospels. Because they do this. Of course, I can't say that, but that's what's in my heart sometimes.

I get upset with people internally when they're preaching a false gospel, and then they spread this to others, and they're causing pain and suffering. And the. They're sin against God and they're spreading it. Weekly, several times a week, as I'm in social media groups debating teaching and answering questions. It happens all over.

I'm with you on this, buddy. It it's it's sad, but it's true. Yeah, I remember a few years ago, I was. Like downtown in my city, on my way to the school district to visit one of the pastors at my Church because he used to work at the school district before he retired, and I got stopped by these people preaching on the corner. I assumed they were Christians, and so he started talking to me.

And I told him that I already have a church and all that. And I think he had asked me what the gospel was. I told him that we're saved by faith alone. And then the red flag came when he said this. He said, Yeah, uh e everybody likes to say faith alone, but uh look uh look what it says here in First Corinthians.

Some s some epistle he brought up. And as as soon as he said that, uh that raised red flags for me right there 'cause 'cause it sounded like he had a problem with People preaching faith alone. And after he said that, I was like, I got to go. I'm on the way to meet my pastor around the corner.

So I guess I'll talk to you later. And then let me go after that. But yeah. Yeah, I'm uh affiliate with this kind of stuff and um I've discussed it thousands of times over forty years. You know, it's just.

It's bad. And all you can do is Teach them the truth. Romans 4:5, Romans 3, I've got to memorize. I mean, Romans 3:28, Romans 4.5, Romans 5.1, Galatians 2.16, 2.21, Philippians 3.9. These are the verses I go to to prove things.

Then I go to James 2, you know, and I go to, let's start, you know, starting in verse 14. I've been to it so many times, just so many times, that it's just ridiculous. How many times I've had to go through and correct them? And uh they don't care. According from Scripture.

And then they just call me names, you know. Then, when I get tired of talking to them, I say, I'm out of here. And they go, Are you running? Cause you're afraid. It's like, what are you at schoolyard?

Anyway, yeah, there's a lot of people like that.

So Yeah, I'd say I'd say I'd say one of their favorite verses is uh uh Matthew nineteen when uh the Jesus I think I think uh um th they think that Jesus was teaching uh uh salvation by works. in that chapter. Right. I think yeah, the the rich I mean the uh The scribe came up, the lawyer, and yeah, and they'll talk about that, and I'll say, Okay, he answered him according to his arrogance, his pride. What good thing do I have to do to go to heaven?

And then he boasted, Oh, I do all these things. Yeah, look how good I am. And Jesus just pointed out that he wasn't good. Point it out, and he says, No, no, no, you know, you sell everything, follow me. That's the standard of righteousness.

What they do is they say the standard of righteousness is their own level. And I asked him, Are you keeping the the law according to Jesus, the level of Jesus? No.

Well then You're falling short, aren't you?

Well, he understands my intention and my heart. Your heart's wicked and deceitful. Look, I've gone through this so many times, I could do both sides of the dialogues. And uh It just They're sad. It's sad, sad, sad.

It is. It's just sad. Yep. Yep. Well well, all right, uh I guess I'll I'll talk to you soon, but uh but but uh it was a good it was nice talking to you.

Amen. Nice talking to you. Keep us a good work, brother. All right? All right.

Okay. Have a good one.

Sounds good. All right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Let's get to Kevin from New York.

Kevin, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, quick question for you. I was wondering, how many mines are in the hands of Trinity? I'm a personally anti-Trinitarian.

But I don't understand.

Well that was a heads on uh Hold on, you're breaking up. There's a lot of noise, it's like you're doing something in the background, you're on a speakerphone or something, it's hard to hear you.

So Are you there? What we lost them? Hey, we had two callers and all of a sudden both of them went down. I wonder if something just happened to uh Anyway, his question, at least what was typed out by the producer, was something to do with how many minds are in the Godhead. But I want to make sure I understood his question.

Um So, the Trinity is, just so you know, the Trinity is one God in three persons, one divine essence, not three. The divine mind is of one essence. And so, what we recognize is the distinction between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by their relationship to each other.

Now, the Bible does talk about the mind of Christ and the mind of the Holy Spirit. But it doesn't mean that there's their minds as in the idea of three separate beings or three separate deities. And so then the question becomes, how is it that they can say this in relationship to the single being of the divine simplicity of where God is one mind? We can say that they share in that mind and then reflect it in their individual individuation of relationship and distinguishing in that.

So they're not distinguished by separate minds or wills. but in how they relate to and exhibit that one mind that is God.

So, that's what I would say is going on there. We don't want to get into three minds, lest it be tritheism or social Trinitarianism. And I hope that helps a little. All right. I wonder what happened to the phones there because I was, you know, really couldn't understand them that much.

But I think that's what it was. I think that's what was going on. All right, so. Oh, there we go.

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