Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls, and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, as usual, All you gotta do is dilate 772. 072276. And you can also email me info at carm.org info at CARM.org.

You can put the subject line there, but just put radio comment or radio question. Either one of those. We can get one. All right, all right, all right.

Now we have nobody waiting online. And I didn't have anything exciting happen this weekend. Usually I get some. Uh interesting discussions uh online. Um And nothing major this time, you know, because I like to report and it kind of motivates me to talk about different things and stuff, but.

Oh, nothing happened really of of any import. We have our forums are permanently down, just to let you guys know. We are focusing on our energies and our finances in other directions. And I'm working on videos uh that uh let's see, how do I put Videos where after I write an article, I do a video on it and go through and kind of summarize it and talk. We're gonna be adding those kind of things in, doing that kind of stuff.

Just, you know, gener general stuff. Hope you all had a good weekend. And uh I went fishing recently and didn't catch anything. I saw one fish. One fish, that's how good a fisherman I am.

And uh other than that that's it. Um But uh One of the things, you know, I do when I walk, I'll listen to different chat rooms, go to different chat rooms. And it's not my goal to go in and take over a room. My goal is to go in and listen. Um Check on things.

Sometimes people ask me questions and stuff like that, and we get going. And that's fine. You're not gonna mind that. And um I was in a room just listening today, as a matter of fact, and A uh a Muslim was Trying to, I could tell what he was trying to do, he was trying to find a problem with the incarnation, with the two natures of Christ, which one died. And how God died.

He's trying to find a problem in there, and I knew where he was going, and I jumped in with the conversation, you know, when it was inappropriate. And said, Well, here's the answer, etc., etc. And then, when I was given the answer, he would interrupt. And cut me off. You know, it's really, it's so sad that Muslims don't want truth.

As far as I'm concerned, they don't want truth. They want what they want in reference to what they think is true, not what the Bible says. And, you know, and the thing is.

Now I grant that uh they're not going to want to understand the truth. But at least at least they should understand what our position is. and the Muslims and the Atheists to me are the same in that neither one. Really group really wants to understand what our Bible lecture teaches and what Christian theology is. I cannot tell you how many times I've offered to both groups.

Let me teach you biblical theology on what we teach on certain doctrines and um So you can know. And just let's get together and talk. I'll teach you. And they say, no, I'm not interested. And they think they know what the truth is already, and they're not even interested in.

And what the Bible has to say, what the Christian doctrines are, and things like that. Anyway, it's just pretty typical. Not a big deal, it's what happens. And uh but I am interested in the topic um which actually the caller It's kind of related to the issue of a coming apostasy. Which I think is really interesting.

And I was discussing some of this stuff last week, and maybe I'll continue with that because I think it's going to be interesting. Let's get to Nick from Virginia. Nick, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how you doing, man?

Doing alright, man. Hanging in, everybody. I hear you.

So, yeah, my question is, I just wanted to know if you believe in the rapture, and if you do or you don't, I just wanted to hear what you had to say about it. Yeah, I definitely, most definitely affirm the doctrine of the rapture. I believe we're going to go through the tribulation. I think that the rapture is concomitant with the return of Christ, and that the first ones taken are the wicked before us, they're not going to be raptured. They're going to be taken to a place of destruction.

And it's a very unusual view to hold, but that's my view. But I definitely believe in the rapture. Uh-huh. I gotcha. Um, yeah, I mean, that was it.

I just wanted to hear your view on it.

Well, what's your view? I mean, I believe that there will be. I'm kind of a. I'm like a, I would say I'm a mid-tribulation kind of rapture person.

Okay, that's good. It's alright. Yeah, well, you know, I hope uh I hope you're I hope you're right. And I hope I'm wrong. In all seriousness, because I do not like my position, what it implies, what it necessitates.

I'm not happy with it, but that's what I think the scriptures teach.

So that's why I believe it. But I hope you're right. You hope.

Well, yeah, I I hear you. But why don't you go into detail about why you believe what you believe about it?

Well, because of what Jesus says in Matthew twenty four, for one thing, uh You know, you've heard of this, two men in the field, one is taken, one is left thing. That the ones who are taken are the wicked, not the good. And that's the context. And so when you go to Matthew 24, there's that, but there's also stuff. And at the beginning of Matthew 24, But don't forget your shoes.

At the beginning of it, they asked Jesus when will these things happen? That is the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple. When will these things happen? What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age? And so they asked three things.

And So he goes on and he talks about various things. There's going to be uh wars. Rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes. Etc. Bad stuff.

If those days be not cut short, no life will be left, false Christ will arise, etc. And he says, immediately after the tribulation of those days, The sun will be darkened, and he'll gather his elect.

So I see him saying it's after the tribulation when it's really bad, and that's out of Matthew 24.

Okay. You get a lot of background noise, but uh anyway.

Okay. Sorry, man. Um Yeah, I have some issues going on, man. I uh I just wanted to ask that. I guess I can I can hang up now and you can continue to talk about it.

No, it's okay. A lot of people listening know there's a if someone they're in the car, they know that the the noise coming from the radio is fine. But um And have you looked at this age and the age to come model? Have you looked at that? Uh no, I have not.

It's really worth looking at. I was introduced to it, I don't know, 40 years ago, and it shook me up. Because I'd never heard of it before. And long story short, it's the biblical model. It's the model that Jesus and Paul the Apostle taught.

That's what they taught this age and age to come. And when you map out what happens at the end of this age, you'll find out that, in my opinion, you find out that the rapture, pre-shrib rapture, just is impossible. It cannot occur. And it's and I presented it in Bible studies and things like that over years. In all honesty, not a single person's been able to refute it.

I'm not like boasting around like a chicken, you know, and strutting and everything. It's just. You know, I say to people, Here, let's check this out. See if you've got uh something you think can deal with it. It's not like a challenge.

It's I'm open, you know, and then we just go through and and And people go, man, that's a good argument. I say, I know. I just, no one's really come up with anything yet. And like I said, it's not a challenge, it's not an arrogant stand, it's just: hey, poke holes in it. You know, and no one has so far.

It's this age and age to come. And if you map out things out like that, From what it happens, oh my goodness, things really change. Yeah.

So is it uh is it a book? No, it it's uh in in the Bible. It's it's in the Bible. Yeah, the phrase, the phrase is, you know, in this age, you'll have sickness and death and things like that. In the age to come, eternal life, etc.

And so it's called this age and the age to come. Paul talks about it, Jesus talks about it, uses the phraseology. And so when you Then you realize there's two ages: this age and the age to come.

Okay. Well, then what you do is you just look at the things. You go, okay, at the end of the age, like, for example, let me let me. Just as an example of something here. Go to Matthew 13, all right?

Matthew 13, 30, the parable of the wheat and the tares, right? And Jesus says, Allow both to go together until the harvest. At the time of the harvest, I'll say to the reapers, first gather up the tears and bind them in bundles to burn them up. But gather the wheat into my barn.

Okay, so the first ones at the harvest, the first ones gathered on the wicket, the tares.

Now he interprets this parable later, ten verses later. And he says, verse 40: just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. See, the Son of Man will send forth his angels, they'll gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness. And so you go, oh, the end of the age. That's interesting.

So if I were to do this and of the age and do a search for it. In the Bible, it comes up at least right there in Matthew 13:39. And then verse 40. The next verse, just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. And then 49.

So it'll be at the end of the age, the angels will send forth and take the wicked out among the righteous. And like 24-3. Yeah, because they asked him, what will be the sign of your coming in the end of the age? Uh So people ask that's what they're the Jews are thinking And so when I was shown this years ago, I was like. I've never heard that before.

Never heard. In fact, Mexico. Yeah, nobody's ever pointed that out to me before. It's interesting. Yeah.

And that and I know it was it was like and check this out. in Matthew 12, 32. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come. Uh Okay.

Oh, okay.

So there's this age and the age to come. And so what I've done with people is just say, hey, let's get a piece of paper or whatever. And in fact, I'll be teaching on this in a couple of weeks at my house. We have a Bible study here. And people want to know about it.

And so I've taught it, I don't know, five or ten times over the last few years in depth. And every time, every single time. People have said, man, that's really interesting. It's challenging. I had one guy say, Oh, it doesn't convince me at all.

And I'm like, Okay, all right. Do you have any response? Go, well, I've got to think about it. Yeah, I've heard some callers on your show, and they're pretty funny.

Sometimes they are. Yeah, they're some good people, and I enjoy them. In fact, people, what I do, I make facial expressions sometimes, you know, and you can see them on Rumble and sometimes on Facebook when I'm doing a live show like I am right now, and I'll raise one eyebrow and make an eye big. People love that, it's for fun. But uh So, because I have a good sense of humor, people just don't know it, but I do.

I have a great sense of humor. I've written humor fiction and even a humor book. Yeah.

Yeah, it just seems like a lot of your callers just for some reason are looking for a fight. Yes, uh you know, I g I gather that. Um Uh people They want a piece of me. In fact, I got something in Facebook or something. I'm looking at it, and the guy goes.

He says, Will you debate me on the Bible?

Well who are you? What do you want to debate about the Bible? You know, and uh. And then if I say I'm not interested, oh, you're a chicken, you're afraid. Look, yeah, whatever, dude, you know, go away.

So I'll get that. Trying to beat you. Oh yeah, people do it all the time. The only one who could do it successfully was my wife. She could do it.

That makes sense. Yeah.

So I guess um so your stance you're believing that we're going to go through the tribulation then? In fact Let me Would I can you eschatology? Yes, the whole thing. You know what eschatology is, right? Yes.

Okay, well, hold on. Hold on. Get back to the break. If you want to hold, and I'll give you a little bit of something to think about and what I teach and stuff like that. I'll be right back.

Okay? Hold on, buddy. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Then we'll get to Nick again, then to Cole from Georgia on the rapture also. Hey.

write back after these messages please Give me a call. I mean, yeah, give me a call. We'll come right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. I'm smiling because of text during the break. Oh about how I would Fix my wife's computer problems. All right, let's get back on with Nick from.

from Virginia. All right, you still there, buddy? Still am. Yes, sir. I was able to fix this audio issue so you shouldn't hear anything now.

Yeah, it sounds really good. It sounds really good.

Now, I was going to really profoundly and say something really good, but But I forgot what it was. Oh no. Because of those dumb people in the room, we get these great chats going on, and sometimes they're just fun. And so I get distracted. It's my own fault.

But we were talking about. Oh, yeah, I remember now. I remember. Yeah, eschatology. Yes, I remember.

Eschatology is the study of end times, right? You know that.

Okay, I teach depresscatology. That's what I call it. That it's going to get bad. It's just going to get bad. It's going to get worse.

And so in Genesis 2:17, God said to Adam, In the day that you eat of the fruit, you're going to die. I believe he was talking not only to Adam. But also to mankind. The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23.

Well, when I was reading through Matthew 24, I think it was about verse 22. Jesus says something very, very interesting. He says, unless those days had been cut short, no life would be saved. And I'm like, whoa.

Okay. So Now, I'm just going to have fun with this, okay?

So, two men are in the field. One is taken, one is left. Matthew 24 and Luke 17, that's the wicked who are taken. That's the cont context. And they ask, where are they taken?

Where the body is the vultures gather.

Now It says In Matthew thirteen, that Jesus says that taking that The wicked are taken out of his kingdom.

Now that can't be. The thousand year reign. It cannot be people say it's a thousand year rain. It doesn't work. And there's other reasons for that.

And so that I don't really have time to get into it. And so But he says, you know, false Christ will arise, earthquakes, famines, you know, plagues. Unless those days be cut short, no fl of us will be saved. I can't help but wonder, and this is where this is totally guessing now.

Okay. And uh But it's it's a good guess for fun. Let's see, Armageddon. Armageddon. Where is it?

Oh, slangle! Oh, hold on, I get to Revelation. I think it's f Why is it fourteen? Let's see. Um Gather them.

I gotta find that verse. It's been a long time since I've done this, but it's fun. This is fun stuff to do. And uh it's not Revelation 14. It's um Oh, you slime ball.

I talk to my computers that they don't do what I want. I call them slime balls. Um Yeah. Anyway, it says, oh, yeah, here it is. Yeah, it is.

Matthew 16. I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits, like four. Frogs.

Now remember, I'm just having fun, okay? For there are spirits of demons performing signs that go out to the kings of the whole world to gather them together. for the war of the great day of God Almighty. for Armageddon. Whoa.

Now, what do frogs do?

Okay. Hop. One taken, one left, one taken, one left. I don't know if it means anything. And.

At the end of the age, Is when the wicked are taken out of the kingdom. And then They ask him in Luke 17, they asked, well, where are they taken? He says, where the body is the vultures gather. Maybe. Maybe.

Maybe there's a supernatural something that happens where the wicked are taken to Armageddo, the valley. And are destroyed by their own stuff. Yeah, I hear you. You hear me?

Okay. So I don't know if you can hear me though. Can you hear me? Yeah.

Okay. Alright, let's see. We put them on hold. We'll get back in. Can you hear me, Nick?

No.

Alright, we lost him.

So he can uh he can call back if he wants. Isn't that interesting, folks? Interesting. I'm not saying it's true, but it's just fun. And going, man, that makes me think, makes me wonder.

And so there you go. Let's get to Cole from Georgia. Cole, welcome. You're on the air. Ah, you bad uh Right.

Yeah.

I'm still I'm still not completely sold on that, on their theory with um with the with with what the uh the wicked being take for taking first. I'm I'm not convinced of that.

Well, just read Matthew thirteen about fifteen times till you believe what it says. because he says, First gather the wicked, and gather the wheat into the barn. He says first of all. He said as it, but he also said as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be again? Yes, and the ones who are taken there are the wicked.

The ones who were taken were the wicked. No, no, no, that's not, that's just the way you're putting it. The wicked were destroyed in the earth. They were destroyed in the earth. No, they were destroyed in the flood.

In the flood. Yeah, but it was in the. you can't make it say what you want that Well, hold on. It says in Matthew, I mean Luke 17, 26. As it was in the days of Noah, socially the days of the coming of the Son of Man, they were eating, they were marrying, they were being given marriage till the flood came in.

destroyed them all.

So that's that's who the day is. Right. Right. But it happened in the earth. You say that happened in some mysterious place, some mysterious place.

No, it happened in the earth. I didn't say it in some mysterious place. I said you just said that the wicked, the whole the wicked are gonna be taken away to some fabulous place or some mysterious land and destroyed. No, no, no, I did not say there's some fabulous place. No, they're going to be taken to a place of destruction.

And when they ask Jesus in Luke 17, when they ask him, Where's it taken? He answers: Where the body is, the vultures gather. They're taken to a place of destruction, death. That's what they're taking. That's what they're wicked.

Yeah, but it doesn't line up because in the days of Noah, all of the wicked were destroyed right on the earth. That's correct. You can't argue that one. You can't argue that one. That's correct.

They were. And I suspect. And the vultures. I suspicious where the vultures gather. That has to be on earth.

Yes.

Right. But you're saying that it's not. No, I never said it. I never said it. No, wait a minute.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

So if they're being taken like you said. And um that they're not gonna be on the earth. No, I didn't say that. Yeah.

They're taken to a place of destruction. It doesn't say they're taken to heaven or some celestial world. It just says they're taken. That's all it says. It doesn't say where, and then except Jesus answers and says, Where the body is the vultures gather.

That's where they're taken. And then for fun. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The raptures, that the ones taking it are the good, Matt, the ones taking it. No, that's not true.

In Matthew 24, Luke 17, it's absolutely not the case that when it says two men are field, one is taken, one is left. It's not the good who are taken, it's the wicked. Everybody's mixed, not everybody, but too many people have just not read the context and just ignore it.

Okay? It's the wicked who are taken. Most biblical teachers, scholars, on radio. Adrian Rogers, all these guys, they believe like me. And I'm pretty sure most of your audience agrees with me.

Look, if they're they say that the ones who are taken, you know, two men in the field, one is taken, one is left, if they say it's the good, they're simply wrong. That's not what the text is teaching. Flat out, they're wrong.

Okay. So, what messes up your theory is the voting soul. That messes up your theory. It's not. What?

What are you talking about? I'm using it as part of my theory that the wicked are the ones who are taking it. You said the wicks are going to be taken.

So, if they're taken, where are the roaches? The votes are going to be taken also? No, they're taking. Yeah.

They're taken to where the body is. The vultures gather. Hey, there's the break. Hold on, buddy. Right back.

Hold on. Wow. He's entertaining. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

Mm-hmm. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Hope you're enjoying the show.

Let's get back with Cole from Georgia. Cole, welcome. Have you collected your thoughts yet? Oh, you know what I mean? I'm still thinking the way it is.

You know, I mean, everything adds up to itself. You know, it's not that hard. You're putting too much education into it. What? Just take it large, man.

You know what I mean? Come on. But this is what it says. He says. The two men in the field, one is taken, one is left.

The ones who were taken in the context are the wicked. No, that's what you're making it say.

Okay, look, hold on. Let me ask you something here. Let me ask you something. Look. Look, let's go to Luke 17, okay?

It says this As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also the days of the Son of Man. They were eating, they were drinking, they were giving in marriage, they were being given in marriage until the day that Noah entered the ark. and the flood came and destroyed them all.

So the they is in reference to the wicked, right? Yeah, entering the ark is a type on the rapture. One thing at a time.

So they is in reference to the wicked.

Now, that's Luke 17. And answering, they said to him, Where, Lord? Where are they taken? Why do they ask that? Because he says when he says the vultures, he's saying it's on the ice back.

That's what I'm telling you. I keep telling you the same thing. They're taken to a place of destruction. It's most probably Armageddon. It's a place of destruction on the earth.

It says there'll be two, Jesus says, there'll be two women grinding at the same place, one will be taken, and the other will be left. Answering, where Lord he says, Where the body is, the vultures gather. The ones who are taken are the wicked. This is proof. No, no, no, no, no, no.

This doesn't stand here. You're. Wait, wait, wait. That's too smart, Mark. You're too smart.

You're too smart for this, man. You're too smart for this. I'm not. Come on, man. You're too smart.

You can't believe that. Come on. Come on, man, don't disappoint me. I mean, come on, dude, it's what it says. Look, he says, There will be two women grinding in the same place.

One will be taken and the other will be left. That's Matthew, that's Luke 17, 35. And then he said, they answered in verse 37. And where are they taken? They're asking Jesus because he says two minutes, two minutes are grinding.

One's taken, one's left. Where are they taken? And he says, Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered. Jesus said, That's where they're taken, where the body is, and vultures are. Destruction and death.

It's just like in the days of Noah. All of the people were destroyed in the earth. Just Adrian Rogers, Tom Stanley. Who cares about them? Who cares about them?

What does Jesus say? Right, Matt, they're they're they're only explaining what Jesus said. But Jesus, Jesus says, two women are grinding. One is taken, one is left. That's verse 35.

Verse 36: Two men will be in the field. One will be taken, the other will be left. And Andrew, they said, Where, Lord? And he said, Where the body is, the vultures will be gathered. That's where they're taken.

Where the body is, the vultures will be gathered. That's where they're taken to. Two men in the field, one is taken, one is left. The ones who were taken, Jesus said, They asked where? Where the body is of vultures gathered?

Read the last few verses of Luke 17. That's where it is. The only thing that messes that theory up. The only thing that messes that Siri up if if they're taken, then the vultures are going to have to be taken. He didn't say the vultures.

That's not logically necessary. They he a they ask him, where are these people taken? And he answers Where the body is There also the vultures will be gathered. That's where he answers. In fact, in Matthew twenty-four Jesus says, wherever the corpse is, the vultures will gather.

That's Matthew 24:28. And that occurs at the coming of the Son of Man, the return of Jesus. He then says, after those days, the tribulation is when a rapture will occur.

So it's going when he returns. But he says of that day mail.

Okay, let me actually just one last point here.

So when they're taking. The the the believers on the left So where's the rapture? The rapture happens after the tribulation, that's my opinion.

Well, if it's out, what what purpose would it le need to be for Iraq? If the tribulation is over? What need up when they're after dens? You see, this isn't making sense, Matt. If you really break it down.

Though though, then you're making the mistake of assuming that a rapture needs to exist because we need to get out of the tribulation. That's an inference that's not required in Scripture. It's a logical mistake. You can't argue that rationally. You can say, okay, tell me this.

Tell me your point.

So if the rapture happens. What's the purpose on the rafters? I want to hear this. The purpose of the rapture is to fulfill the prophecy that God has given that we're going to go up in the clouds and meet the Lord. That's what the purpose is.

For the conversion of those who are there. And probably, probably, probably because the new heavens and the new earth are going to be made. And I suspect That the rapture is there to get us out of the place where the new heavens and new earth are melting with extreme heat. The elements are burned up and the new heavens and earth are made because we can't be here when that's happening. I suspect the rapture is part of the reason is for that.

But you haven't heard that one before. I've never heard that word. I don't know about, you know, yeah, like I say, you got a lot of good points, but this one. Uh Man, I don't know if you got this one right, Mac. Maybe I do, man.

Maybe I do. You better really look into that, man. I'm telling you. Trust me, I've looked very deeply many times into this. I've looked for ways out.

Okay, it's okay if you're wrong. Yeah, I totally agree. You know, if you come back and say, hey, you know what? I think I was wrong on this. Because you know, the thing with the revolts, and then as it was in the days of Noah, the people were all destroyed in the earth.

I've seen it. That was a type of the rapture. Look, I said biblically I've been wrong before. I've never said to my wife before, but I've been wrong according to the scriptures. Hmm.

Okay, come on. I'm getting the feeling now. You're not even too sure. I'm getting that feeling. But anyway, look, I tell you what.

Hold back. I tell you what, if you really want to do something interesting, go to my website, carm.org. and do a search This age and the age to come.

Okay? Do a search for this age and the age to come. And it's an article.

Okay, this age and the age to come. You do a search. examination of this age and age to come in support of all millennialism. And I know a lot of people might just go, no, not going to do it, not going to support that view. Go see what the scriptures teach.

Because it's very it's very compelling. I've had people who don't agree with one. What's that? One last question. I'm going to have one last question.

I'm going to hang off. Is it a sin if I don't want to believe like you're like that? And I believe it's not a sin. It's not a sin to doubt a guy in the radio named Slick. It's definitely not a sin.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

Okay, anyway, well, we'll get to the bottom of this later. We'll call back later, maybe.

Alright, and then we can clean up the collateral damage. From the discussion, okay. All right, cool. All right, thank you. Yeah.

All right, God bless. All right. Man, he's awesome. Man, good stuff. Aha!

So, Nick from Virginia. Welcome, you're on the air. Over to you. Yeah, I'm back, man. Did you collect your thoughts?

Man, I have to hit the mute button because I don't want to laugh too loud. Yeah, because I was collecting them during the break. Yeah, he didn't catch that. I'm sorry.

Sorry, he was too busy trying to prove his point. That's right. Not considering the collateral damage that was occurring. I caught, yeah, he didn't catch that either. Oh man.

Oh, I need this good laugh. He's great. I really enjoy him. Seriously. Yeah, I enjoy him too.

He's great. People in the chat room that they love him. I bet. I bet. He can have his own show.

Yeah, uh I would I would I would watch it. That's true. But I can't help it, man. I'm totally cracking up. All right.

I'd watch it. Yeah.

I would watch it. See what he's saying? Yeah, that's right. All right. Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, so yeah, so to pick back up where we left off talking about Um There's the break music holding. The only other. We got a break.

Okay. Then we'll get back to you, okay?

Sorry about that. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after the messages. We'll get back with Nick and then Eric from Ohio on the rapture as well. I'll be right back, please. Stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. We're just doing puns off of Cole's name. We're having fun in the chat.

You know, he needs to collect his thoughts and he's giving the cold-hearted facts, and you're on a collision course with the facts. Oh man, just a lot of fun. And he's a great guy. I really, really enjoy him. All right, let's get on with Nick from Virginia.

Okay, buddy, we're back. All right, man.

So yeah, so back to eschatology. Uh I definitely want to hear your viewpoint on this.

So of course, there's a lot of bias when it comes to the rapture pertaining to in Revelation how the church isn't mentioned like after chapter three, and it doesn't like the church doesn't get brought back up until chapter twenty-two.

So there's a lot of Thought um That pertaining to us being raptured and then not going through the tribulation and so on. Yeah, that's not a very good argument. It's unarguable, it's not a very good argument. Just because something isn't mentioned doesn't mean it's not true.

So, for example, justification is not mentioned in, I don't believe it's in the book of Revelation, justification by faith or in the epistles of John.

So, it's like, oh, I guess it's not true anymore. I agree with you. Yeah, it's not the best.

Now, if they were to be able to say that Revelation was chronologically arranged. If they could do that. Then maybe they might have a case, but even then, it wouldn't be logically necessary. Because there's other views of Revelation.

Some say it's heptatic, that it's a cycle of seven that repeats. And so um It's not a good argument. It's just an argument, but it's not a very solid one. Yeah.

No, I got you. I just figured I just wanted to uh pick your brain and what you thought about it, basically. Yeah.

Yeah, so it implied yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so yeah, so yeah, so you basically believe that the rapture is going to happen after the whole Great Tribulation, everything. Yes, unfortunately, that's what I hold to. I don't want to believe it, I don't like it. But I think we're going to get through it. And I think the preacher rapture thing took root here.

Well, it's because of the Schofield reference Bible in the early 1900s. Plus, in America, we are used to being comfortable. And so the rapture touches our ears. And yeah, God won't let me. But I've been in some debates with people on pre-chip rapture, and I asked them, show me a pre-chip rapture verse.

And There aren't any. There aren't any. I mean, I can go to Matthew 24 and say, where Jesus says, after the tribulation, he sends forth his angels to collect the people. That's the rapture. After.

And then they'll say, well, it's a second coming of Christ. What do you mean, second? You mean as in he came once, he's going to turn again? Second. A second second, yeah.

Yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, I've heard that. And that's ridiculous because it's never taught. And so when you start examining it, it just falls apart. At least that's my opinion.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, no. I I I uh yeah, I've heard that uh That I've heard that before. People are like saying that it's technically like a third-coming almost kind of thing, and that doesn't make any sense. Right.

And basically, also back to that argument for chapter 6 or whatever it is in Revelation, the word church doesn't occur. But God's people are all over there: the elect, the saints, they're there. All through that time. Yeah.

So you can't say the church isn't there. It's just, yeah, like I said, it's not a good argument. Yeah.

Okay, so yes, so I guess the only other thing so the main thing that what I heard you talk about with mister Cole is the scripture about they asked Jesus where do they go when they're getting taken? And it says, where the body is, so do the vultures gather. signifying death basically. Yeah, a place of death, destruction. That's what the body is of vultures.

It's very cryptic. And the only thing I can see with it. That might make sense is out of Revelation sixteen. When it says that the three unclean spirits went out to gather them for Armageddon. And Yeah, I'm not saying it is it.

I'm just saying, you know, what's going on? They're gathered where the vultures are in the bodies.

Well, we know from Armageddon there's going to be great battles and a lot of death there. Could it be, just asking the question, could it be that people are warring against the truth of God and they're gathered out into the valley of Armageddon? And I've seen it. It's a humongous. It's just a, it's really interesting.

It's really interesting to see in real life. And there's the armies of the worlds could be there and not even touching each other. Yeah.

And then they come down in the area and then they fight. There's supposed to be death and stuff there.

Okay. So. Could it be? Could it be? I'm just asking.

Could it be that the wicked That are in cahoots with those people there in Armageddon, all the battles against the true God. They're taking it. They get what they want. And the phrase is hoisted by their own. Very interesting perspective.

Yeah.

And I'm not saying I'm dying. Very interesting perspectives. It's just a question to throw out at. I forgot where I heard that from somebody, but that's a good point. And.

You know, three unclean spirits like frogs, one taken, one's left. Frogs hop. Could it be a pun? Could it be just a coincidence in Terminology, you might bring it too far. I don't know.

But it's fun to think about. You know, that's all. Yeah, 100%. And so what did you say again? Like the study of this age and the age that come, though he said.

Yeah, this age and the age to come. If you go to Carm and you look up an examination of this age and the age to come, it's in support of the amillennial view. And people are going to understand. I don't care if they are a-mill, pre-mill, post-mill. I really don't care.

Pre-trib, rapture, voter. Yeah.

I don't care. You know, I'm not going to die in that hill. I'm not going to divide over it. I just want people to do that. It's not worth something losing sleep over.

Right. But unlike a church I went to locally a few months ago where the pastor was talking about these positions and the way he delivered the Amill position caused people in the congregation to shake their heads like, oh, how could they believe that possible? And it made me mad because he was causing division in the body of Christ. Don't do that. You know, just they're like I say, there's really good people on all the sides, and they're intelligent.

Yeah.

And you know, and and make up your own mind, but don't look down your nose at others for a different position. That's well and that's like uh that's one of the main issues going on with the United States is just like it it it almost seems like there's you're not allowed to agree to disagree anymore. Right. It would seem that sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah, but that's a whole nother trail. All right, man.

I appreciate you.

Alright buddy, God bless.

Okay. Yeah, you do. All right, we'll talk to you later.

Okay. All right, a lively discussion.

Now let's get to Eric from Ohio. Eric, welcome. You're on the air. Well, hi, Matt. Hi.

This is a question about the rapture in regard to something Cole said.

Okay. Uh He said that the purpose of the rapture Or what would be the purpose of the rapture if we go through the tribulations? Yeah.

But I was under the impression that the purpose of the rapture was to spare us the wrath of God that comes after the tribulation. Yeah, could be could be.

Okay. So I was just wondering, is this uh A correct view or something along these lines? Yeah, that's what I would say. It's along those lines. It's within exegetical possibility.

What's the right one? I don't know. So the rapture occurs. Why do we need to be caught up together to meet him in the air?

Well, it might be that God just wants to do that. It could also be that if it's the case that the new heavens and new earth are are made at that time because Then the rapture would be there to prevent us having to go through this destruction of the world. Because in 1 Thessalonians 4, 16 through 5, verse 2, it talks about the rapture. It talks about the voice of the archangel, the dead in Christ, to rise first. And he says, Now, as to the times and the epic, brethren, you have no need of anyone to tell you anything, for the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.

So the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night is the rapture, the return of Christ. But when you go to 2 Peter 3:10, I think it is, it says, The day of the Lord comes like a thief, in which the new heavens and new earth are made.

So it seems to be the case that the return of Christ, the new heavens and the new earth are made, maybe. I don't know. Maybe the rapture is there to get us out of that where the the elements themselves are destroyed, the new heavens and new earth are made. Maybe that's part of it. I'm the only one I've known who has stated that might be a possibility.

And that which makes me concerned because You know, I'd even trust myself. I mean, a guy named Slick. I say, people, don't trust a guy named Slick, and I'm Slick, and tell you how you can't trust myself, you see?

So I got a real problem now.

Okay. Okay. Um Also Very quickly, you talk about the vultures in Luke seventeen. Is there a correlation with Revelation nineteen about that? Is that saying something similar?

Uh I don't know. Let's see, Revelation nineteen. Let's see, vultures. I don't see anything there. What verse in Revelation 19?

Um boy. I think somewhere around seventeen, where it talks about come the come to the Great Feast.

Well you're based on kings and Yeah. All the birds which fly in the mid-heaven come assemble the Great Supper of God, may eat the flesh of kings and flesh of commanders, flesh of the mighty men. Ooh, I don't know. That's a good question. Both free and stuff.

So the beasts, the kings of the earth, and their armies assembled to make war against him who sat on the horse and against his army. Maybe. You know? I don't have all the answers on this stuff. I think it's tough to come up with an absolute.

But that may be. Maybe you got a point there. Yeah.

Okay, well, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. All right. Hope this was an interesting conversation. All right, brother.

God bless, man. Great.

Okay. You know, folks, I know that a lot of people got nobody waiting. I know a lot of people are raising one eyebrow, staring at the radio side-eye, you know, like, why? I don't know. And that's okay.

Um My attitude about all this is study. And Listen to other views, even if you don't agree with them. and just don't dismiss 'em. Outright, automatically dismiss them. Just go, well, let's look what they've got.

This is what I learned a long time ago. You know, I'm absolutely convinced about certain things.

Now, I'm not going to disagree with it or change my view on the Trinity or who Jesus is and salvation by grace through faith alone. That's never going to happen. But. and all kinds of other things. When someone says, Well, I got a different position on that, I'm like, Okay, let's hear it.

And I'm open. in all kinds of stuff because well I'm not loyal to denomination I don't have a denominational job in pulpit. I have to preach, make sure I don't say anything that's outside of the norm and the instructions and the position of a particular denomination. That's one of the privileges I have. I don't have to do that.

And so I'm free to just go, that's a good point. Maybe you got something there. Like the guy who just now called up. In Revelation 19 with the birds eating the flesh of the kings. Ooh, I wonder.

You know, go look at it and see. Maybe he's got something there, maybe not. I don't know. But it's good to be challenged. It's good to have people come up and say, what about this?

And I like that because I'm firmly convinced I do not have all the answers. I know, I've earned a lot of stuff. And over the years I've learned man, there is so much more to learn. I hope I'm wrong about my eschatological position. I don't want to go through the tribulation.

I want the preacher of rapture to be true. I do not like the idea of going through it. I don't. That's a fact. But I think we are.

I don't want it to be true, but I think we're going to go through it. And I think the Christian church is going to be in for a big awakening when we go through the tribulation. Hey, there's a music. We're out of time. May the Lord bless you by His grace.

We'll back on here tomorrow, hopefully. Lord Welland, unless somebody gets raptured. We'll be right back. I mean, we'll be back tomorrow.

So have a great evening, everyone. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.