Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carn.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and your list of Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, as usual, number's 877-20. 72276.

And I want to hear from you. You can call me there. You can also send an email. That's easy. Just send an email to info at carm.org.

Info at CARM.org. And you can put the subject line, radio comment, or rate of questions. And we can get to them. Easy peasy. We have nobody waiting right now.

And so... Oh, look at that, that failed.

Something. Oh, there we go. And so.

Alright, so I got looking at cars. I'm gonna decide what to I'm gonna Break that link right there. I'm always working on stuff, you know. Released an article a little bit ago. I've been working.

Working with something. Um Let's see. The article is uh The article is answers. No, no, no. What miracles did the disciples and apostles do?

The reason I wrote that article is because. I've developed an argument. against the entire Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. Seriously. And Hmm.

And I've been field testing it now for a few weeks and It really is effective. The I'll tell you what it is. It's really simple. But I'll just preface it by saying: man, are the EEO and the RC not able to deal with it. Eastern Orthodox Roman Catholics.

It's really simple. The argument goes like this Um Damn. Jesus gave authority, or Jesus in Luke 5:24 said that so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. He says, say to the people, get up and walk. And he did.

He then, in Matthew 10, he gives the authority. the same authority to the disciples and who are called the apostles. And that is to raise the dead, to heal every kind of sickness, among other things. And then in the book of Acts, they do it all over the place. Paul, Peter, they're just performing miracles left and right, and crowds are following them.

And I say to the EO and the R C, I say, Okay, so what are the miracles that uh your your priests are doing on command, like the Apostles, and with the result of, just like it is in the Bible, where great crowds are following them? Not an occasional miracle once every 200 years something happens. See, we have apostolic authority. No, no, no. Where is it like it is in the Bible?

And they can't answer. The the responses that they have given um are pretty bad. And So I wrote this article today as a is an analysis Simply, what miracles did the disciples and the apostles do? And so I wrote this. And broke it up into varying areas: the twelve, the seventy, the apostles, Peter, Paul.

John, and he did something up with Peter, Stephen. Philip and Ananias of Damascus. I tried to find Any miraculous things, healings. Oh, you know, anything that was done where it's recorded in the New Testament. And so I listed them out, you know, and and for example, Ananias of Damascus, he lays hands on Paul and who regained his sight in Acts 9, 17 through 18.

All right.

Well, he wasn't an apostle. And but miracles occurred. But yeah, it's true. But as far as the apostolic authority goes, they were constant. Crowds followed them in Acts 3, 4, 5, 8, and 9.

And I mean crowds. This is the manifestation of this.

Okay. Real simple.

So if their church is true with the with their claimed apostolic authority, Then let's see it. They don't have it because they're not doing it. They're not doing it. Therefore, they don't have apostolic authority. Therefore, their entire churches are false.

And the reason is because they claim that their churches have apostolic succession and authority from the disciples themselves, and that's why they're true churches. And then, in their heresies, They had a priesthood where a bunch of guys and special garments and special Authority. What they do is they go to an altar in their church services, an altar that doesn't even exist in the New Testament. And they go there and they offer sacrifices or representation of the sacrifice. I mean very generic when I say that.

And uh that's their true church. And well, that means that if their so-called priesthood, which is not in the New Testament, their priesthood's not there. Um It's manufactured it. I don't know where to get it. I did research on that, when it started coming in, because it's just not in the Bible.

But uh It means their churches are false.

Okay. And there you go. There you go. And that's the argument I've been working on, and I've released an article related to that today. Let's get to Jermaine from California.

Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, yeah, I wanted to ask about I guess biker clubs or biker gangs. Can it this was a little weird for me, but can people actually be a part of some of these organizations still Be believers, you know, most prominent would be the Hell's Angels and. you know, groups that have names that seem to suggest Demons.

Well, okay, there's different kinds of biker games and groups. There are I've seen I've seen Hell's Angels no, I've seen There's another one that's equal to them, or about as bad. I've seen one of those guys. Uh and um I used to know a guy who was involved with background gangs.

So there's different kinds. And I've seen uh bikers for Jesus uh type gangs or movements also.

So it just depends on which one it is. And yeah, they can uh they can easily be a a group of bikers who uh love Jesus and and ride for him.

So that's not a problem. It just depends what kind of biker gang you're talking about. Yeah, and to clarify, I guess I mean, I have seen some good. biker clubs. I I guess the ones who specifically have names like Tails, Angels, and I think the one you were thinking was probably like the mongrels and mongrels, that's things that.

Yeah, things that um you know where they have patches that declare that they're if they have the one percenters like they're they've actually committed Crying to earn that patch. But I've actually, it's contradictory because when I was a kid, I've known some. Who actually were very helpful to me. when they shouldn't have been, but it was kind of a conflict. I was like, well You know, it says hell's angels.

Some had license places head from hell. But it was a It was just a little confusing how you know, a couple proclaimed to love the Lord, but they still love their their group. Yeah, there's inconsistencies everywhere between people who claim to follow Christ and what Christ actually requires of them.

So, hell's angels. No decent Christian should be involved with something like that.

Now It's not to say, though, that you can't have a group that was bad that retains its name as they move forward. and become Christian. I mean, there's technical things we could get into here. But for the most part, we want to make sure that we recognize there needs to be a differentiation. between the things of the world and the things of God.

And that the true True bikers, true Christians who hold to that, should not participate in those aspects that appear to be evil. They shouldn't do that.

Okay. Okay, yeah, I think that's good enough for me. Um Just I and I do I've seen some people where they seem to be in legit Conflict over what they should and should not be doing, like any other walk of life, I guess. Yeah, and you know, and here's the thing. You could be in a gang, you know, a guinea gang.

I've heard of Mexican gangs where the people get saved in there and they live for Jesus. And they're still tatted up and they're still having issues and stuff like that. Um and they live for the Lord. I think that's certainly possible. And so I would just say that God will work in them.

uh through time to bring them to that place of of the even avoiding the appearance of evil.

So it's it's possible. It's possible to do that. in a in a generic sense.

Okay, and and uh yeah, ironically, I I watched two guys get baptized who were. Former Mexican gang members and incarcerated for double-digit years each. and they're only in their forties and then Yeah, I'll tatted up with You know, we look at them as brethren because they, you know, they have. The fruit to bear that shows they do love the Lord. That was a part of their life and they were kids.

Now they're not, but they still have those markings. on their skin, but they, you know, they're trusted brothers now. Right. Yeah, in fact when I did prison ministry, uh uh I met many guys of all uh ethnicities, let's say, who were tatted, not tatted, uh skinheads, white supremacists uh blacks, uh Browns, Asian, whatever. Just all of them.

And they were still segregated and self-segregated in in various prisons that I would go to. But every now and then you would meet real Christians who it didn't matter. It didn't matter, I didn't care what ethnicity they were, I didn't care at all. They were just good brothers in the Lord. And they were still in prison, and when they get out, you knew they were going to walk with Christ.

And that's what they were living for there. And it's a wonderful thing to see. And it happens. Hey, I used to know a guy. who actually said the gra the best thing that ever happened to him was getting arrested and going to prison for 14 years.

And uh I I said, really? And he says, yeah, because it was in prison that he found Christ. He would not have found him. If it had not been for going to prison, and he got saved, and he was thankful. He was thankful.

for going to prison because it's what broke him. And it's what um Gave him his faith. Troll.

Okay. Yeah, Philip, that's good. I mean, I know there's brothers and sisters everywhere, so. Thanks for tackling the hard questions. Hey man, no problem.

And it's a pleasure, you know. Yeah, no sweat.

Okay, buddy. All right.

God bless you, Matt. Bye-bye.

Okay. God bless. You know, that reminds me. I did nine years of prison ministry and I learned a lot. I really did learn a lot.

I was exposed to a lot of things in those prison halls and yards. And You know, I really learned to appreciate what Jesus can do to people. It was really good. It was great to see The the love that so many people had for Jesus in there. And in a place that was difficult.

Because they could they were often risking their lives uh to be a Christian.

Okay. And I remember I remember once there was this, we were in Folsom prison. I won't give too many details. But It was just that the people there, what they would do is walk in groups, segregated groups, or walk the yard as called. And uh They they understood When someone had received Christ, I'm being very generic.

They understood when someone had received Christ. And they weren't Siding with any race or gang or group except for Jesus. And they would be tested. by these varying uh groups. And this one guy sat with me.

and told me about this and how he was tested by them. and varying Well, I'd be careful because I still have the habit of not giving too much information, even after all these years. You're just instructed. Don't give out information, don't take anything, don't receive anything, don't give anything. But you know, extreme generics we can do.

And he was talking about how he'd be tested by different groups. as he would live for Jesus. And some mental tests were difficult, but he stood strong. And once they made their point, they proved it. then they people respected them for what they were.

Hey, if you want to give me a call, 877-20722. 7-6, I'll be right back. Give me a call. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. 877207227. Six. I'm waiting for him to give me a call and um Let's see what to talk about.

We've got a couple of things we can get into.

So, if you want to email me a question, I'm going to get to some of the questions. We have nobody waiting right now online as far as calls go. I can get to your questions. Yes, email me at Info at carm.org info at carm.org.

Okay, now.

So, I've been thinking about doing something, and I'm interested to see if anybody would want to participate.

So, over the years, as you know, I've gained a lot of experience debating, teaching, arguing, defending. And things like that. In fact, I'll be in a debate in two weeks, a formal debate with an East Orthodox guy. I'll give more information on that later. And um More and more people now are telling me that they want me.

to uh just to hold classes and teach people. Teach on the basis of the Christian faith. And then how to apply that faith. what you know in defending and and promoting the Christian faith.

So Long story short, I'm thinking about doing something on what's called Patreon. Patreon is a paid service. You sign up and you have access to things. The reason I think about doing it there is because I've offered things for free. where you know I'll teach you about this or that and basically nobody shows up.

But lately Because people are expressing this interest, and I said, Well, you know, I'm thinking about going on Patreon. They said, No problem, we'd go. Yeah.

So There are different ways to get access to it, and I'm going to look into doing all this stuff and stuff.

So, I'm thinking about doing a 10-week course. Where it might be on like Tuesday nights, whatever it is. and where I will then develop Slides and or outline material and stuff for people to read. Articles on karma to study. I'll go through and teach, for example, first five weeks, just teach basic Christian theology and get a little more advanced here and there.

And then do one hour once a week. where for a half hour I teach. And in a half hour, we do questions. and you can only have access to it in Patreon. It'll be live, and I provide a link, a video link.

You can come in, and we can have discussions.

So I haven't committed to doing this yet because well, it's a commitment, which is fine. I mean, I can work all these lessons up. I could it'll take me a few days to do that, and I would do everything ahead of time so that it's all set and ready. And then what I would do is release uh the the option to sign up and have a start date We'd move forward and um then I'd put everybody in a an email list or some you know something like that. And then being able to communicate with them and saying, here we go, and we do this.

If that sounds interesting to you. If you would like something like that, it'd probably be like 25 bucks, I would charge, or maybe 50, I don't know. to participate in a 10-week course. course. where it will be online.

You'd participate, I would then teach. Probably have slides, probably have some presentation. I'm not sure exactly how I would do it yet because. It just depends. It's kind of one of those things, which comes first, the chicken or the egg.

And it develops together as I work on things. But it would have outline material, probably have slides and stuff that you take notes, maybe even pages you could download that you have areas to write notes in and things like this. I'm not sure exactly how, but it would be like that. And maybe just have a certificate at the end. I don't know.

If you've completed all ten lessons, just the honor system, if you've completed all ten, you know, you can download and print it up and sign it yourself. You know, it'll have a match like signature on it. It's really low, low level, low basic.

Now, here's the thing. I know my doctrine so well in different ways. I can see how it's interconnected. And what I can do is start on the topic of monotheism, biblical authority, scripture, what it means: inspiration, the doctrine of the Trinity, personal work of Christ, salvation. and really get down to the basics.

I could teach easily for a long period of time on each of those topics. But it would be designed to just make it so that people can learn the basics while getting smatterings of more advanced stuff. thrown in.

So they can hopefully see stuff. And then, once we get the theology down, so to speak, we jump into apologetics. And I would introduce different kinds of apologetics, presuppositional, classical, and evidential, and go through the advantages and disadvantages, if any, of all or what. With homework, with some assignments, and mild stuff, mild stuff, you know. And uh, Not like, okay, by next week, read these 300 pages in five books.

It's not like that. It would be, here, read these two articles on Carm, or go through, maybe memorize a verse or two, or analyze this section, and then during one of the lessons, I'm going to ask when we do the QA part, what did you learn? You know, and we can go through. Stuff like this. I want it to be interactive so people can learn.

If that all sounds interesting to you. Then please let me know by emailing me at Matt Slick. Oh, excuse me, matt at carm.org. Matt at CARM.org. Matt at Carlton.

Just say sounds interesting. The Patreon teaching thing sounds interesting. And How much do you think it'd be worth? Because I'm gonna uh charge for it. And one of the reasons, like I said, I do, is because I've done this before and offered for free.

And people just don't seem to care. And I've noticed and learned through research that when people pay for something, they take it more seriously. And that's what I want people to take it seriously.

So, uh, There you go, all right. Whew.

So again, if that sounds appealing, if you like that idea, if you would be interested in committing to it, matt at carm.org. Say, yeah, it sounds really good. even though it's from a reverend named slick.

So there you go. And what qualifies me to do that? You might be asking.

Some of you may not know my background.

Well, I'll just give a little bit of a plug for that. Not a big deal. And maybe well, there's no callers waiting, so I'll just waste a little bit of time talking. But I have a Master's of Divinity from Westminster Theological Seminary. We're doing radio.

This is my 23rd year of radio. I did 20 years, 21 years. Five days a week and two years, one day a week, and written about 5,000 articles on Carmen, had, I don't know, maybe 100 debates.

So, and then hundreds and hundreds of impromptu discussions where we go, they're debates, but not formal debates.

So, I bet I had about a hundred formal debates. and on radio, on TV, on online and things like that.

So there you go, all right. Uh Yeah yeah. Whooshoo. Again, matt at carm.org. If that sounds interesting, email me there.

Now, I'm going to go through some of the emails that I've received and go through some of the questions. This is a long one, and I think I'm going to get to it anyway, because it says I go to Calvary Chapel. which first learned about the rapture from the movie series Left Behind. which you're probably familiar with. Yes, I am.

Both my church and movie each preach trib pre trib rapture. Yeah.

So, I have an instinctual bias towards that view.

However, after listening to you teach on the age and the age to come, I've been struggling to adopt. The post-trip rapture view. I have many questions that I'm still balancing in my head over the issue. According to your view, In Luke 17, 26 through 37, you say the ones taken are the wicked, ones who are taken to a place of destruction. Yes, that's what I say, because that's what it says.

I think you would agree that the definition of the ones who were taken are the ones who are. physically removed from their location, not taken as in their lives. I said it were wiped out, they were taken or moved. Yes, we got a break, so hold on. We'll get back to this after the break.

If you want to give me a call, the number? It was 8772-07-2276. I'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All Reverend, welcome back to the show, Bottom of the Hour. If you want to give me a call, 877- 207-2276. We have nobody waiting, so I'm going to get back into this email. And he says, obviously, either the wicked were taken, as out of Luke 17, and the believers left behind, or the believers were taken, and the wicked left behind, in the comparison of the days of Lot. Lot was the one taken out of Sodom.

while the wicked were left behind to face the wrath. In the days of Noah, his family was taken into the ark, while the wicked were left behind to face the wrath. Based on the comparison verses, I would seem to it would seem to me that the ones taken would be. Taken out of the coming wrath rather than the wicked being taken to destruction.

Okay, now he's got more to say, but this is a good example. I mean this politely. Of exegetical fallacy, where you take the word taken and the concept in other places and import it to here. into a particular place. like Luke 17.

And the primary thing you have to do first is not look at other places to see where something is said. You take a meaning out of that and then move it over to here and say, see, this is what it means here. That's not how we do biblical exegesis.

So let me read this. Because what we want to do in Luke 17 is read what it actually says right here and right now. It says, and just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating.

Now who is the they? They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being in marriage, being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them all. That they is referring to the ones who were destroyed. They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage until the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them all.

So, the ones who were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage are the ones who were destroyed. It's that simple.

Okay. It was the same as at the days in the L of Lot. They were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planning, they were building. On the day that Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

So even the text that he was referring to says that the ones who were destroyed were the wicked. It will be in the same day that the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out. And likewise, the one who's in the field must not turn back. Remember Lot's wife.

Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it. Whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night, there will be two in one bed. One will be taken, and the other will be left. There'll be two men grinding in the same place, one will be taken, the other'll be left.

And answering, they said to him, Where? And he says, Where the body is the vultures are gathered.

So the ones who are taken are the wicked, and they're taken to a place of destruction.

So, if you were to say, well, in Noah's Ark, the ones who were taken were Noah and his family. because they were taken out of the flood. And so that's what it means to be taken over here. But that's not what's going on. It's a completely different context.

Now, since I'm on this, let me go to the parallel of Matthew 24, 26. Or Matthew 24, 36. Let me get in there, right? there. No, come on.

Uh 36. Verse 37, actually. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For in those days before the flood, they were eating and drinking.

Now, here we go again. Who's the they? We know from Luke 17. It's the wicked. Because they were the ones destroyed.

In those days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark. And they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away.

so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then there will be two men in the field. One will be taken, one will be left. Two men will be grinding at the mill. One will be taken, one will be left.

Therefore be on the alert. Who's the one taken? The context is once we're taken. In the flood, were the wicked. excuse me, Noah was in the ark.

He wasn't the one taken. Because we know from Luke 17 We know from Luke 17. in here again. Put another window up. Luke 17, 26.

And 27, they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being married, given in marriage, until the flood came and destroyed them all. That's who the topic is in reference to who was drinking and marrying and given marriage. That's what it is in Luke 17, in Matthew 24, the same wording, the same context. They were eating and drinking, marrying and giving marriage till the day that they entered the ark. They did not understand.

The they is in reference. To the they who are eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. They did not understand until the flood came and took them away. The flood didn't take Noah away. The arc.

prevented them from being destroyed by that flood.

So that's what's going on there. And then, when it says in Luke 17, where are they taken? He says, where the body is the vultures gather. And uh And let's see, I'm looking for the parallel. I won't get into it right now.

And then when we go to Matthew 13. And this is really, I think, this is very interesting. And I've done this so many times on the radio here: the parable of the wheat and the tares. And uh the wicked are the The tares and the good are the the wheat. Shall we The workers say, Shall we uh tear up the w the tares?

He says, No. allow both both to go together until the harvest. At the time of the harvest I'll say the reapers first gather up the tares. and buy them in bundles.

So the time of the harvest The first ones taken are the tares. That's the wicked. And then you go to down where Jesus explains, he interprets his own parable. He says, The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world.

The enemy sowed them as a devil. Verse 40: Just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth his angels to take out of his kingdom. all stumbling blocks. And he throws me into the furnace of fire in that place, there'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So at the return of Christ the harvest The first ones taken are the wicked.

So there you go. Let's get to Cole from Georgia. Cole, welcome. You're on the air. Got him.

How you doing, man? I'm doing okay, hanging in there, brother.

So what do you got?

Okay, now.

You know, I like a lot of your teaching, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one.

Okay. Oh okay. That's okay. Um The vultures. Gathering, they're not going to eat them in the sky.

So if they're if the bad are taken, the folks are there put there in the sky and eat them, they're going to say make any sense. It doesn't say they're taken into the sky. I didn't, yeah, and where they're taken is where the body is, the vultures gathered. That's what when they say, where are they taken? He says, where the body is, the vultures gathered.

That's what Jesus says. They're taken to a place of destruction. Doesn't say they're taken in the screen.

Well, wait a minute now. I mean, the rapture, I believe in the rapture. No. Before the ark, those guys were taken up in the flood. They were taken up, and the wicked were left.

No, they were not taken up in the flood. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't play. Hold on. Cole, hold on.

Cole, Cole, hold on, hold on. That's just playing with words to make their theology fit. They weren't taken up in the flood, they were in the ark. The flood is what killed people. the ark saved them from the destructive work.

So they were the ones giving marriage. It was still. filling the others so bad.

Okay, the ones who were destroyed and the ones who were taken are the wicked. Because Jesus says so in Luke 17. They were giving in marriage till the day that Unor ended. They didn't understand. And they were destroyed.

And they're taken, they says, they're taken. And they asked each other, where are they taken? Where the body is of vultures gather. That's the they who was taken. They're taken to destruction.

That can't refer to Noah. Because they weren't taken to destroy.

So where are these vultures gonna gather? With the body is the vultures gathered. That's what Jesus said.

Well, where where's this gonna be in the sky? Probably Burbank, you know, California.

Well, that's still in the earth, so the wicked, the saints are not gonna be down there when that happens. Dude, you gotta stop and you gotta think, okay? You gotta think, all right? I am. Holders don't eat eat things in the side, they eat them on the ground.

Dude, when did I say they're taken into the sky? I never said that. Never said that. You're insinuating. You're insinuating.

No, I'm not. No, no, you're insinuating. You're assuming the vultures are going to be in the sky. Nothing in the text says that. It says they're taken.

And when they ask Jesus where, he answers the question: where the vultures are, where the bodies are, the vultures gather.

So that means the death of human beings. Listen, the Browners are not gonna eat anything in this county, man. I agree with you. I agree with you. They're not.

That's right, they're not. I never said they were.

Okay. Hold on, we'll get back. We'll get back after the break. We'll get back after the break. Okay, brother.

Wow. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have three open lines: 877-207-2276. Let's get back on with Cole from Georgia. Cole, you still there, brother? Yeah, okay, I got a quick, I've got a quick question for you.

Okay. Now, one of the apostles in the epistle says, in the twinkling of an eye, we're going to be Christ in the sky. And well, what's that all about? And you're right. That's in 1 Corinthians 15.

And uh So it says in verse 52 of 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound, the dead in Christ will be raised imperishable and will be changed.

Okay?

So that's what that is. It's going to happen. Twinkling of an eye. They're going to meet him in the sky. It's going to meet him in the sky.

Yeah, that's for the Christians, not for the unbelievers. Right!

So, so that's the rapture that they're talking about, Matt. You can't ignore that, Matt. I'm not ignoring it, I agree with the rapture.

Okay, the rapture occurs. It's just that Jesus says that the ones who were taken. Were the wicked in Matthew 24 and Luke 17? Two men in the field, one is taken, one is left. It's the wicked who are taken.

That's all. And they're taken to a place of destruction. That's debatable. That's debatable. That's debatable.

There's no no evidence that says that the wicked will be taken. That's no sure evidence of that. Yes, there is. The evidence is right there in Matthew 17. I mean, Luke 17 and Matthew 24.

That's the evidence by reading it.

Okay. Well, he doesn't say that the wicked are taken. He doesn't say that. Where is he saying that? You're making it say that, man.

You're making it say that.

So check this out.

Okay, this is what it says.

Okay, this is Luke 17. Just as it happened in the days of Noah, So it will also be the date of the Son of Man. They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying. They were being given in marriage until the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them all.

So who are the ones who were destroyed?

So I guess. Good. The wicked are the ones he's talking about who are eating and drinking and marrying and being given marriage. Those are the wicked people that were destroyed, right? Yeah.

Okay. So now when we go to Matthew 24. In those days before the flood, they were eating And drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage. That's the wicked, right? Yeah.

Okay, till the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand till the flood came and took them all away. Who the ones who were taken in the flood? The Wicked Yeah, but yeah. I'm not sure if I can do it. Dude.

I keep telling you. Yes. It's like you've got earmuffs on. I say, it's not in the sky. They're not raptured up into the sky.

And yet you keep implying that's what I'm saying. I keep telling you, no, that's not the rupture. It was taken up in the sky. God was taken up. That's the whole point of it, man.

No, the rapture is different. It says that the ones who were taken were the wicked. That's what it says in Matthew 24 and Luke 17. There'll be two men to feel along. They were destroyed.

They said they were taken. Yeah.

They were destroyed as it was when they were destroyed. Notice what he says, as it happened in the days of Noah. The ones who were wick or the wicked are the ones who were taken and destroyed.

So it will be the same way when Christ returns. The wicked ones are the ones who are taken to be destroyed. Where are they taken to be destroyed? Where the body is the vultures gather. That's where the destruction is going to occur.

In the flood, it was in the water. And in the last days, it's going to be a different place.

Okay. It's still gotta be on the earth. Because of the current. Yes, that's what I've been saying. It's going to be on the earth, not in the heavens.

They're taking where the body is. The vultures gather. Vultures are creatures on the earth. The body is there's going to be a place of death. That's what it says.

Well, why doesn't that mean that the rapture doesn't happen before all of that, Matt? That still doesn't neglect the fact that the the rapture might happen before that. It can't, because of what Jesus said in Matthew 13. In Matthew 13, In verse thirty, the wheat and the tares, he says, allow both to go together, the good and the bad. And at time of the harvest I'll say to the reapers, First gather up the tares.

Jesus says in Matthew thirteen thirty the first ones gathered at the harvest are the wicked. He says, First, gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up. But gather the wheat into the barn. That's Matthew 13:30. He then interprets.

is parable that he gave. And he says Okay. In verse 40, just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth his angels, they'll gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks and commit lawlessness, throw them in the furnace of fire. There'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The first ones taken at the harvest, or the wicked. Jesus says so, Matthew 13.

Okay, you now you got a you got a point there on that verse right there. I never thought about that one. But that that ain't that ain't a hundred percent sure, though.

Well, that's a good point. That's a good arguing point. I got to give it to you. But still, I'm not a hundred percent convinced I still believe in the rapture. I still believe in the rapture.

So do I. I believe in the rapture also. Yeah, but okay, so when do you think the rapture will take place? That's a question. After the tribulation, because of what Jesus said.

Jesus says Okay, he says in Matthew 24, 29, but immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, the heavens will be shaken, then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. This is the return of Christ. That's one of the days of the coming of the Son of Man will be. That's what we were just going through. And he says, the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky.

All the tribes in the earth will mourn, and they'll see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and great glory. And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet, and they'll gather together his elect from the four winds. That's the rapture. After. The tribulation.

He says it in Matthew 24, 29 through 31. Just go read it. Go read Matthew 24, starting at verse 8. All right.

29. All right, you got me thinking. You got me thinking. I got to do some more research.

Okay. Let me do some more research and I'll call back. I'll do some more research.

Okay. Sounds good. Matthew 24, Luke 17. Yeah, that's a good arguing point. I got to study that more.

Okay. And that's only half of the argument. That's only half of the argument I can present on this. That even makes it even more solid. Yeah, okay, yeah, okay.

Okay, well, let me, let me, all right, thank you. I'll call back later then. All right, Cole. God bless, brother.

Alright, I enjoy. I enjoy this call. Let's get to Jane from. Nevada, Jane, welcome on here. Hi, Matt.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. My call is about the previous call. The gentleman got me thinking, I had heard exactly what you said. Um oh gosh, four or five years ago was the first time that I'd actually heard that it was the the evil ones that were taken and and the Christians were were left.

Yeah.

And I think you kind of answered this as the conversation went on with the other gentlemen. That's before the rapture. Yes. Those events happen before the rapture. Is that correct?

Yes?

Okay. So when when we're left, when the Christians are laughed, and the evil ones are gone. What are we doing? Like, you know, how are we assisting?

Okay, so I'll. They are taken to the place of destruction. The rapture occurs. The new heavens and new earth are made right away. Also it all kinda happens at the same time.

So let me throw something out at you and see what you think of this, okay? This isn't proof, but it's good supporting evidence, okay? And I've taught this for years and years, and each time I've taught it, people have said, Man, that's good, it's interesting. I have to think about that, and that's fine, okay?

So, this is what it says.

Now, remember, by the way, when Matthew 24 says, after the tribulation, He says, He'll send his angels with a great trumpet, and they'll gather together his elect from the four winds.

So, a great trumpet is when the angels go forth to gather the people. At Matthew twenty four it's what Jesus says. All right.

when we go to what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4. The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. This is the angels? The trumpet? The dead in Christ will rise first.

That means those who have died in faith, like my wife passed away.

So if the rapture were to happen tomorrow, She will precede me in the resurrection. The dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we always be with the Lord. That's the rapture. No problem, right?

No problem.

Now, Paul then says Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

Now, as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you, for you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.

So the day of the Lord comes to Kathiev in the night that's the rapture. Return of Christ. Right? Yeah.

Okay, now.

We go to 2 Peter 3.10. But the day of the Lord cometh a thief, In which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and his works will be burned up. The day of the Lord come like a thief in the night. Is the rapture that the day of the Lord comes like a thief? Is the new heavens a new earth?

The only difference between that is in the night. I did a search through all the Bible. This phraseology doesn't occur any place else except for these two places. That's it. The day of the Lord comes like a thief.

There's one the day of the Lord that comes like a thief. That's it. It's when the rapture occurs. It's when the new heavens and the new earth are made.

So Here's what I affirm.

So has the abomination of desolation already have happened? By that time, yes. Yeah, with the temporal Jerusalem that's being rebuilt. That's what the teaching that we've been studying, that's where that's going that. And then there's no exact time frame when it'll happen after that, but it's believed or thought to believe that it would be relatively swift after that happens, after the Antichrist goes into the temple.

That's correct, and it's out of 2 Thessalonians 2. Because he says, I'm going to hurry up because we've only got one minute. We request you, brethren, about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering to him.

Now we're on the same topic. And he says, this will not occur until the apostasy comes first, and the one who exalts himself in the temple.

So, what you're talking about, that's 2 Thessalonians 2.

So, Jesus can't return until all of this occurs, and the rapture happens concomitantly with his return, so therefore, there's no pre-trib rapture. We have to go through it all, and there you go. I call it depresscatology.

Now I know you're pressed for time, but I'm going to throw this question out. You know, we're hearing a lot, you know, in a lot of the teachings. We're in the last days. Yes, we are. How well?

Call back tomorrow.

Sorry, the music is going to start right now. 7th and the 8th. You'll know what I'm talking about. I'll call you back tomorrow.

Okay, call back tomorrow.

Okay. Appreciate it. All right.

Bye.

Okay. That the music's supposed to start right about now, I think it is. There it is. Yep, that's right.

Okay, so there you go. Hey, I hope that was interesting for you guys out there. And I hope a lot of you are squinting your eyebrows because I don't know about this. And that's good. Don't trust a guy in the radio name Slick.

Always check with scripture. May the Lord bless you. And by His grace, we'll be back on here tomorrow. Lord Welling, we'll talk. Another program powered by the Truth Network.