Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live on today's show. Today's date is 5-8, May 8th, 2026. If you want to give me a call, it's easy.

All you got to do. Is dial eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. All right, now usually At the beginning of the show, a lot of times what I'll do is I'll try and recount something that's happened in the past 24 hours or some discussion I got into in the last day or two, and I don't have any. And the reason I don't have any right now is because I have been doing so much work on karm stuff, you know, just the things that you do with the a ministry that you have to constantly, just constantly do. And uh a lot of um Just a lot of uh little problems.

And You know, there's just ministry work. And so I learned something today about how certain programs work and Yeah. Just a lot of work. Just a lot of work. However, I did have a conversation with our Friday meeting.

We have a regular Friday meeting with the staff. I mean, they'll get online from different places. Moses wasn't in today, from Nigeria. Often that's the case because he's fleeing. He's fleeing from the false teachers.

that are out there. And uh the Muslims who are trying to kill them and stuff like that. out of Nigeria.

So So there's that. We We got a discussion uh With Found. in Brazil One of our guys in Brazil is saying That um That a lot of people are joining the Roman Catholic Church. And There's been something on my mind here for quite a while. On why is it that people are joining the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches?

And it bothers me that they do. Because they're false religions or not Christian. But people don't know that. They don't know why those religions are not true. And uh So, a while back, I wrote an article, Why Are Protestant Youth Turning to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy?

And I want to go through some of the things here. I've gone over this before, I want to go over it again. about some of the the issues that um That I think are problematic in Protestantism. And that might explain why part of the reason is that we have people going over into the false religions of Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy. And yes, absolutely.

They are false religions. They're not Christian religions. They teach false doctrines, a false gospel. A false priesthood, promote idolatry. I mean, he does deal, and I'll always say that.

I just will because the Bible is the word of truth, the Bible is the standard of truth, and these false religions twist a lot of God's word in order to make it appear that they are doing well. But at any rate, We got a call coming in a little bit.

So I had this article, this article I wrote on Carm, and I'm going to go through some of the stuff. The problem here we're having is that a lot of the young Protestants are leaving Protestantism for Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. And while some leave because of theological ignorance, many leave because Protestant churches have.

Well, this genuinely failed them. And I think that's the case. And I want to talk about this a little bit. I'm not knocking all of Protestantism. No, I mean, you know, Protestantism is better than Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy by far.

But we're not perfect. You know, we've got issues. And we're full of just. people who are sinners and And I want to go over some of the things that I think are worth discussing in the idea of um Of why Protestants, you know, these churches aren't as doing as well as they should be. And we're going to leave it at that for now.

Because, well, we have uh We have a caller coming in. Mr. Mills. Hello? Hello, Mr.

Mims. Hello. North Carolina. I'm doing all right. I'm doing okay.

What do you got? Oh. Oh, right. I I backed the question. Um Yeah, I actually heard a lot of the churches now talking about these um UFOs and these reptilians.

That are in the White House.

Now, how was your feeling, your thoughts on that? The Reptillions in the White House. The only Reptillions in the White House would be Democrats. Oh, you mean USO? UFOs and reptilians.

Yeah, that uh you know, it's a thing going on, but what your what's your thought behind that? Yeah, th I I've studied UFOs and stuff for a long, long time, and let me just tell you that they're real. Um I'm absolutely convinced they're real. There's real flying saucers of different kinds and different shapes. Uh they have different propulsion system and I've heard one of the theories about how it works.

But um I I just think they're connected with demonic forces. That's what I think.

Okay. That's what I think.

Do you think a in a government system? I don't know. It could be. It could not be. I don't know.

I have no information. They are they are in our government system. We have always been there.

Okay. And so do you have any individuals that you know about that were actually aliens?

Well, I've seen them I've seen them uh at my home uh here in in Durham. I've seen one. I feel them.

Well I seen a fine sauce or not dope. and I've seen one in the south service.

Okay, a lot of people around the world have had claims like that all over the world, and we should take that seriously because, well, there's a lot there.

Okay. So uh Arriving.

Alright now Yeah, but yeah.

So now, so you know that this, all this is collaborating with the government system. We know that that's been going on for. They make a deal with the government here, and they collaborate with our government our politics here. People don't realize that.

Well, I You know, if you have documentation for that, that would be something I'd be interested in hearing. But you know, a lot of conspiracy theories go out from all kinds of people. Um And they're entertaining, but I always like. Documentation of some sort. I don't know, have you got any?

Uh well no, I don't have any documentations on it, but um You know, they're saying that pastors are coming out with it now, telling the congregation about it now. One of them was I can't think of the pastor's name, just came out with it told his congregation with um talking to his congregation about this is going to come out.

Okay, um Yeah, I just prefer documentation. I've listened to lots of eyewitness accounts, people who said things. I can't verify that what they're saying is true. I've heard hundreds and hundreds of hours of discussions on this over the years and um On UFOs, on aliens, on technology, on inner government infiltration. I've heard all kinds of stuff because I just listen to it sometimes when I'm driving long distances.

I've done that many, many, many, many times.

So, you know, I just want to listen for commonalities. I think it's interesting. But I don't have any proof or any evidence, so I can't You know Make any comments down there. Right. The I think it goes back to Ephesians 6 and 12.

We're talking about. What we're doing was it we've always been dealing with it. People don't know. what we're facing, but we're not fighting against flesh and blood, we're fighting against Placed by rules of the dark spiritual wickednesses in high places. And this is what we're dealing with.

A lot of people don't realize what we're dealing with here. I agree.

Now k house dot org, letter k, the word house. Dot org, k house dot org. That's Chuck Missler's, the late Chuck Missler's ministry. And there's some documentation apparently there on some of the resources that they have of varying people, varying interviews, varying thises and that's about people who've encountered UFOs and stuff. in order to um make comments and stuff.

So you can go there and take a look. Other than that, I really can't tell you much. Right. Okay, buddy. I app I appreciate your sister's buddy.

Do you have a good day? You too. Thanks a lot. All right. Scared.

That's interesting stuff. Um So You know, as it says, Jita says it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be the day of the coming of the sons of man. That's Matthew uh twenty-four, Luke seventeen. And um He says it was the days of Noah and The early church fathers, actually, I'm doing research on the early church fathers' view of the anaphyleme, and the quotes I found so far all say the same thing. that they were uh fallen angels having relations with women.

And I got more to research on that among my many, many, many, many projects. And so um That's what I've seen there, and I've understood that the Jews always taught that as well. Why is that important? It's because in Daniel 2:43, when it talks about the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, you know, the gold, silver, bronze, and then iron mixed with clay at the feet, these are times, periods of time. The latter days is supposed to be the clay with feet.

Mixed with iron, and in Daniel 2, and in Daniel 2:43, it says, They will combine with one another in the seed of men. But they will not adhere to one another. And so there's an interesting Hebraic construction. Apparently, the they is not people. And so if that's the case, then What's going on as it was in the days of Noah?

It'll be again, if it was that angelic interference. uh then it would seem as though that it would happen again. What is that?

Well, some people think it's aliens. The aliens are the offspring. They've been around for hundreds of years and are highly intelligent and have increased in technology.

Now, you could laugh at that, you can scoff at that, but it's just one of the theories that are out there. And the only reason I would lend a little credence to that is because apparently the aliens teach theology. And I learned this from Chuck Missler. Who I respected, and the theology is Jesus is not God, where all divine reincarnation is true. And apparently, Christians don't get abducted.

And so. When you have this kind of information, you go, Okay, if it's the case, that that is the case, then that would lend support to the idea that they are demonic. manifestations. And so, you know, you don't think it's true, not saying it's not true, I'm just saying it's interesting. And something worth looking into because if it is the case that that is what's going on.

then there might be, theoretically, it might be An increase in this kind of activity before the time of Christ, which would be interesting in relationship to the apostasy that's coming. Because if it isn't already here in 2 Thessalonians 2 and 1 Timothy 4:1, it talks about an apostasy, a falling away from the faith. And that is really interesting. That means, though, that. That um There's so many directions to go.

It would mean that for the majority of the world, the Christian faith. on the surface will go false. There are always going to be true believers. Damn. And this necessitates the distinction between what's called the visible and invisible church.

The visible church is the church doors, the church building, with the church people. The invisible church is comprised of those who are regenerate, who are true believers in Christ. And the visible church, I would assume, is the church that would go apostate. And I believe Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, are already apostate, and that Protestantism in some areas isn't too far behind. And there are some heresies inside of Protestantism that are just damnable, that are just so bad.

The name it and claim it, blab it and grab it stupidity, the health and wealth gospel is one of the things that's so bad. And there's some other aspects too. And I've just held reformation, it's got some service problems.

Well, anyway, just a conversation. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Alright, everyone, welcome back to the show. We have nobody waiting, that's okay. I want to um continue discussing this issue of why People are moving towards Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. It's happening a lot. I think one of the reasons is because of the presence on social media.

People are trying to make it sound like it's legit. And the people who are viewing this have no clue about what biblical theology is. They just don't know.

So I think one of the main reasons is theological ignorance. But also. Yeah. I think there's a Now this is I'm going to be careful here because There might be some pastors listening, and I don't know, I haven't heard your preaching. Uh but I can only say that in my very subjective opinion, That the preaching I've been exposed to in the past few years is pretty shallow.

And I've checked out different churches locally here in the Idaho area. And As I've grown, I've not been impressed. Not that I have to be impressed. you know, that's not while we're going to church. But I've gone to a few churches and a few times, man, I'm telling you, sermons were fantastic, really good.

And just, wow. And this it happens. There's some really good preachers out there. But for the most part, I just I just don't hear uh Okay. I go to churches, I listen to sermons, and And I'm bored.

you know, and and there's not much depth. And Uh And there's not much excitement. It just drives me crazy. And so maybe that's just me, you know, because I'm an odd person in that I did nine years of prison ministry. And I learned to appreciate the freedom of preaching in that setting.

the freedom Of being able to move and speak and not be tied to a pulpit with a single microphone. You've got to stand there and keep your head and your body still while you deliver a message. And I think that is just a formula for boredom. Because most people are not trained in order to use imagery. And imagery is something that is is like storytelling.

And one of the greatest imageries used was by Jonathan Edwards in Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God when he talked about that we, I'm not going to do this justice, but the basic imagery was a spider being held by a single thread over a flame. And he was saying, you know, we like the spider. Are kept only alive from falling into that flame by the mercy of God, that single thread. can be broken so easily. And you know, this kind of imagery, you go, woo.

And So I go to churches and Uh, this is me, and maybe you guys can call in and say yes, no to this. Maybe where you are, you got some really good preachers where they get down and it's not so boring. Not that we have to be entertained, but um. Yeah. I find that a lot of the preachers speak in a monotone.

And um don't use imagery. I think imagery is needed because so many of them just sit behind a a single place and then deliver a message. And here's a disadvantage, a disadvantage to doing that. This is just stylistic. That a lot of people don't know this when you're up in the pulpit.

That you hear the loudspeaker, you hear your own voice. Coming out of the speakers.

Now, if you were to. This happens a lot. If you were to pay attention to your own sound of your own voice in your own ears when you're speaking, there's a certain level you're just used to hearing. And so many times, when I used to work, have the radio show and have guests in when I was in Boise, going to the radio station there. I learned very quickly that the people who'd come in had put a microphone in front of them and a headset on top of them on their ears, they would drop their volume.

They'd speak very softly because they were just automatically adjusting naturally to the loudness of the voice in their own ears. And it was just a natural occurrence. I'd say, you're doing that because you hear yourself in your ears with the headset, but you've got to continue to speak loudly, even though it sounds louder in your own ears. They go, oh, okay.

Well, it's just the nature of that. I think that maybe sometimes when preachers hear their own voice coming up out of the speakers, they tend not to want to be too loud because it might be a confusing thing for themselves. I don't know. I'm just thinking. And I think that this whole idea of a pulpit where you have a microphone that's stationary just lends itself to.

Um static. A static position, a static delivery. That is my opinion. And when I preach, I don't do that unless they don't have a lapel mic. I walk around.

And I step down a step or two. I get close to the congregation. I move back behind the pulpit, check a note or two, walk to the left, walk to the right, get involved. Uh, and I'm not saying I'm a great preacher, I'm just saying at least you know, people have told me they go, Man, you're not boring.

Okay, well, there you go.

So, and then the content of a lot of the preaching. Is not very theologically deep, and I've discovered that people want depth in the preaching. I think it's worth saying things like the hypostatic union during preaching and the communicatio idiomatum or justification and imputation. I think these things are necessary. I think they need to be proclaimed, not just delivered, but proclaimed.

from the pulpit and uh I think it's important. And so because I think there's a psychological, emotional, spiritual kind of void that's left there that a lot of times people just don't want to they don't get fed.

Now, that's not to say there aren't a lot of good congregations out there, big ones. I remember. Two instances that happened last year. I went to um Uh Two larger congregations in what we call the Treasure Valley here in Idaho. It's the southern western area of Idaho.

And uh there's, I don't know, two to three million people. I think we only have two point two two point two million people in the entire state.

So I think and the ma majority of them live in the Treasure Valley area.

So let's just say two million people. And uh And I forgot I was gonna say about that. Oh yeah. And so I went to these two different churches and they're large. You know, even by standards here, even by Southern California standards, they'd be large, where they have three services packed, you know, with a thousand uh people there or five hundred people.

And that happens here too. Largely because Californians moved here and they're used to that.

So, anyway, okay. Enough of that. I remember I went to two different churches within two weeks of each other, or was it uh one week after? And I remember this one uh pastor This delivering a Dull? Moralistic Sermon.

and it was just full of what you ought to do. And not for the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ, because he bought us with his blood, tying it to the redemptive work of the Lord Jesus, God in flesh. No. It was to honor God, you got to do good things. And uh And I remember looking at the congregation and thinking, man, they're getting ripped off.

They're getting ripped off because they don't realize. that this is not a quality sermon. Yeah. And I'm not the judge of what a great sermon is. I'm just telling you that there was no mention of the cross, no mention of the sacrifice of Christ.

Look, ladies and gentlemen, the sacrifice of Christ is everything. The whole Bible is about Jesus. Jesus says you search the scriptures because in them you think you have eternal life, but it's these that bear witness of me. John 5:39. And there's more scripture like this.

Maybe we'll get to it after the break and continue to talk about this. I think it's important, I think, that pastors need to up their game when it comes to preaching and teaching because. People are leaving Protestantism for these false religions. Hey folks, we write back after these messages, please. Stay tuned.

Yeah. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. I want to continue on the same vein here, talking about this issue that I think is important.

of uh of sermons um Now I'm going to tell you a story here. What taught me and who taught me? what I'm talking about with sermons. And I'm not again, I don't want anybody to think I'm a good preacher. No, no.

I I don't say that. No. But I remember when I was in seminary, this is a true story. I was assigned a preaching uh text in a preaching class. And David Dr.

David Scheringa was the one who was teaching. class and he assigned me Second Chronicles 20. And it's about a bunch of tribes and nations and people coming down to destroy Israel. And God says that don't worry about it, I'll take care of it. Yeah.

And my sermon basically was: don't worry, God will take care of your troubles, your trials. He's there for you, and to trust in him. And he gave me, you know, I thought it was a good sermon, and he gave me a be something. And I could tell, when he delivered it to me, I could tell, because we were becoming friends. I could tell that um do something more.

So I asked him, I said, Look, I got a question for you. Why? And, you know, why didn't I get a better grade? He said, have you and your wife go over for dinner? We did.

We went to his office after dinner. And I've told this story so many times, and it's just so true. I still remember it. Sitting there in his office at his house behind his desk. And I said, look, just just be straight with me.

Just be straight. What should I have preached? And he said, that's not the issue. The issue here isn't What I'm going to tell you you should preach. You have to find it by the Spirit.

uh through the text. And I and we got talking, and after about twenty minutes he asked me a question. He says Can your sermon be preached unchanged? And an In a Mormon church. And they would accept it.

And I thought about it for a full minute. It was no talking, neither one of us. And I said Yes, it could. And that's a problem. And he said, that's right.

You have to preach in such a way. In the Word of God, that the cults won't accept it. Because if they can accept what you're preaching so easily, then there's a problem in your preaching, isn't there? And I said, you are right, there is. And he was correct.

And that changed me. It really changed my attitude. And uh So I went back and I found looked at the text. And he had been preaching that Christ Jesus is the reason for everything. And so as I went back to the text, I discovered something.

When God says, the battle's not yours, it's mine. It was in the context of so many the Jebizites, the Gizuntites, the whoever writes. were coming down to destroy Israel. And they were greatly outnumbered. Israel was outnumbered.

And God said, don't worry, it's. It's my battle. I'll take care of it. And he did. and Israel was saved.

And I preach the same text again to the class. It's nervous in front of your peers. And In the sermon I said the reason, God took over. is because if the enemy If the enemy of God's people had come through and destroyed Israel, the Messianic line could have been destroyed. and we would have no redeemer.

And without that redemption we all go to hell. That's why, Jeep, God says, the battle's not yours, this is mine. He was securing and insuring. The truth of who we are, and In Christ and the history of Christ's work. And I pre you know, that's a short version of what I was preaching.

And he, you know, when he ga graded my that sermon, he just gave me an A plus. He says, Mad, now you understand. And he didn't give me the answer. but he gave me the tool. crystal centricity.

Christ-centeredness. And that everything in the scriptures points to the Lord Jesus one way or another. That was the lesson. And then After seminary, Um I graduated and a friend of mine, Tim Spikestra, And uh he's a good man. He put up with me for a lot of stuff.

But we did many years of prison ministry together. And I took what I knew, what I learned from. from there and uh I I did a lot of that work and preaching there. In prisons, in different prisons. And it's a different world when you preach in a prison.

Because They listen. And they will challenge you.

sometimes even during a sermon. And at first it caught me off guard. But very quickly I learned to appreciate it and value it. And these were guys who, a lot of times, they got saved in prison, and they would just sit in their cells and read the Bible for hours and ask difficult questions sometimes. And even after a sermon, they would come up and say, You said this, you said that.

And I was never challenged in a negative way. It was always these men, they were good men. And they would ask really good questions. And it really honed what I think my preaching. for the better.

I'm gonna just say that generically. Because you need to get that feedback. It was good feedback.

Alright.

So The Bible is about him. What is the your pastor preaching? Is he preaching moralistic sermons? Or is he preaching? the issue of Whatever it is you've got to do and believe and repent of because you have been purchased, because you're no longer your own.

You check this out. 1 Corinthians 2.2, I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Galatians six fourteen May it never be that I would boast except in the cross. of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hebrews 9.22, without the shedding of blood.

Christ's blood it is. There's no forgiveness. In Hebrews 9.26. He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Romans 8 through 10 says, While we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly.

In 1 Peter 2:24, He bore our sins in His body on the cross. In Ephesians 1:7, in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses. One of the problems that we have sometimes in our Protestant worldview. is the familiarity With the person and work of Jesus to such a degree that we're used to hearing these things so much that.

Well, maybe we're not shaken up by the blood, not shaken up by the sacrifice. This is why I believe that the gospel needs to ultimately be what needs to be uh taught uh I just got a r got a link here. What makes this sermon good or bad? There's a link on that from 2024. Anyway, so When a preacher is preaching, if he just preaches be good, don't be bad, whatever it is.

And he doesn't mention the person and work of Jesus, the reason we are redeemed, the reason our sins are cleansed, the reason that our mind is to change, the reason that we're to grow closer to him is because of what he did on that cross. The place of of of terror, the place of pain, the place of suffering. when his arms were thrust outward, nailed through the wrists, causing pain and suffering in his body before he was even lifted up. upon that that tree. And he was hurled up into the air with nails in his very body.

And this would cause his heart to race, the blood to bleed from his wounds. is breathing to become desperate. The agony. in order to buy us out of hell. We need to hear things like this.

We need, as Christians, particularly as Protestants, we need to be involved in understanding it, and the preachers need to present this.

Now if you present it every single week the same way, people become inoculated. This is why I think it's necessary that they find ways before the Lord on their knees to present that gospel message to the Christian, because the Christian needs it as well as the unbeliever. We who are redeemed need that redemptive cross speech, presentation, sermon, pleading. We need it on a regular basis. Because so many of us who are redeemed struggle with our sins, struggle with the acceptance of ourselves before God.

How can He still love me? Look at what I am. It's that blood. That guarantees that he will never leave you or forsake you. We need to have that confidence because of what God did on the cross.

This is what needs to be preached. regularly. And we need to hear the word of truth. Through all of Scripture, the Old Testament pointing ahead to the cross and the New Testament pointing back to the cross. And the truths that are revealed therein need to be delivered with confidence, with power, not couched with a warm anecdote or a nice fun story to get you ready to hear prep something in the Word of God so that the congregation feels comfortable, coochie, coochie, coo.

And that reminds me of the second church I went to when I was first starting to talk about this. the second church I went to where I had a problem. and I've mentioned this before, and I can still remember where I was sitting. And the worship was good. And then the pastor got up to speak.

I didn't know he was a pastor. I mean, it hadn't been there before. And I'll tell you what happened. right after the break. I'll be right back.

Please stay tuned. If you want to give me a call, 877-8777-7777777 207-2276. But if you don't want me to, if you want me to continue, then don't call because it's somebody to talk about. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright, everybody, welcome back to the show. And Hope you're enjoying what we're talking about here.

So Um And I mentioned this uh this again or before And it haunts me to a low degree, but it does when I think about it. Um I went to this one church that the second week or third week in a row, I don't know. And I went to a church where it was local here, and The place was crowded, and I mean crowded, it was difficult to find a parking place. I went into the church. And the worship was good.

And then the pastor, who I didn't know was a pastor, because I hadn't been here before, and he got up and I didn't know who he was. I'm waiting, okay, let's go give announcements or something. And he kind of made an announcement about something. Oh, okay, whatever. And I thought, oh, he's going to introduce the pastor here in a second.

And he was doing a s uh a little bit of an anecdote, a story.

Okay, what's this about? And then I realized, oh, he's the pastor. This is up for 10 minutes, 10 minutes, maybe 5, 5 or 10, I don't know, in there between. And I went, this is the guy, he's the pastor? He's preaching?

This is preaching? There was no text. There was no go to the Bible, let's look at God's word. Let's look what it says. And after, I think it was seven, I think, I remember now, about seven or eight minutes because I looked at my watch.

Um finally he mentioned scripture. And that's when I looked around the congregation and thought, these guys are getting ripped off. And they're they don't even know it. And It really just appalled me. I think this is I'm gonna give you my opinion.

Take it for what it's worth. The pastor, when he gets up, is to preach the word of God. The preaching of the Word of God is the Word of God. He gets up there.

Soon, quickly, he needs to point to the Word of God. and have his congregation be involved in the word of God.

Now, maybe sometimes there's a story that's necessary to introduce something, and I certainly get it. Oh yeah, no, not a problem. But there needs to be, at least I believe, a clear declaration of look at the Word of God now. Go to Scripture, look at what He says. That's what preaching is about.

preaching the word of God. Not your story, not your desire to comfort people and fill the pews and think that the number of people that come in and how many services you get means that you're doing a proper job. It doesn't mean that. And I remember, I still can see Me Looking around at the congregation, thinking they're getting ripped off, and they don't even know it. But I re never went back.

Um And Which you know, I don't know. I remember I stayed there for the whole service. And uh I've just Yeah. Let's just say I was impressed negatively. in that I don't recall the cross of Christ being wait a minute, no, I do.

Uh He did in passing mention Jesus was crucified. In passing, a passing comment, and we know that Jesus was crucified for our sins, etc., etc., and he went on. And And I remember that little bit. I remember thinking, okay, at least he mentioned that. And that was it.

And it wasn't even the grounding of everything.

Now this is the thing, what I mean about what's called grounding. Grounding is a procedure. for finding the ultimate reason for.

Something. As Christians, our grounding is in God Himself. He grounds reality. He grounds actuality. He grounds truth.

He grounds morality. In other words, we find the grounding in it. in him. the ultimate source, the ultimate reason is God. That's what we mean by the grounding in Christian thought.

So a sermon should be grounded in Jesus It should be Jesus did this or that. And Uh Sometimes it takes more time to get to that point, sometimes it takes less time, and sometimes sometimes a sermon might require more time on that point or less time on that point. There's no set formula. But the centrality of the cross is the grounding for why ABC You want to repent of your sins? Because Jesus died for your sins.

You're no longer your own. You want to grow closer to Christ? You should, because. The cross is what makes it possible. You want to learn more about how to help your neighbor?

Then listen to what Jesus says and how He was. and it led him to that crucifixion. The issue here is, we need to understand that the cross is a difficult thing for us. It is Yeah. where truth met death.

Because the truth of Christ is what killed him. In the context of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, the religious leaders and their traditions. And His truth was costly. And if you speak truth, it'll it can cost you. I know I got stories about that as well.

But as don't you think a pastor should be preaching that truth? To such a degree that the cross of Christ is the issue, ultimately the grounding for whatever lesson that we have. I get sick and tired of seeing sermons reduced to three-point bulletin points. This is the one point you want to learn. This is the second point, that's the third point.

And I'm thinking, well, I've seen it before in pulpits, they use uh the technology, that's fine, as long as they can they can uh tie it to the coherent system of historical redemptive work. through exegesis. This is what I'm always looking for in a sermon. I'm looking for the coherent content. Of the reasons that we are to repent or the reasons we're to affirm and/or deny, whatever it is, and change our lives, whatever it is, is because of the coherentness of God's work throughout space, time, and matter that results in Christ crucified and His indwelling us in our future redemptive work in the resurrection of the body.

And so, all of this, I think, needs to be. uh be focussed on in different forms at different times at different focuses of different parts of that. And this is an art, and that's part of what sermons are. I don't know about you. They bore the begebras out of me.

Most sermons, I just get so tired of them, I just don't hear anything.

So, having said all of that, and that's just on the shallow preaching thing, and I'm going to. Get to Germaine here in a second. I want to say something else that's related to this that I already mentioned. When churches prioritize attendance over discipline or discipleship. the per the perceptive young person or anybody will sense this, that they're being managed rather than nourished.

I want to know. I don't know the hearts of pastors. Are they concerned about how many people? Come to their church service. And I'm going to just tell you, I'm vulnerable to that, very much so.

Because, like, right now, I'm looking, and I can see roughly 75 people who are paying attention to this broadcast that we see. uh that I can see by the numbers on different venues. Should I be concerned with that? Let me just tell you something. I brought this up once recently.

and a friend of mine made a good point. And he rebuked me politely and properly. He says, Matt, you know. That numbers are not what measures success, it's your faithfulness to God. He's telling you what I already know.

I need to hear it. And he says, remember the one. They had the Shepherd left, left a ninety nine to go after the One. It's not the numbers. It's the sheep.

You know, and you know, I just needed to hear that. I needed to hear it. And it's true. Thanks, Pete. He's the one who said that.

And it's been echoing in my heart and mind now for a few weeks as he said that. And um And it's good, because it's a truth. we should not be so concerned with the numbers that watch, that follow, that attend. As we are concerned and should be concerned. With preaching the truth to people, and let the seats be filled or not filled accordingly.

Because our job as preachers is to preach to equip the elect. the Christians not to fill the seats. And that's a whole other topic. For a whole nother time. Maybe I'll go through this again if you guys want.

I don't know if you've been interested in this discussion or not. Let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, brother, welcome, man. You're on the air. Hey, Madea, great, great discussion.

I enjoyed that.

Okay. Yeah, well thanks man. Praise God.

Well, yeah, the question about corporal punishment. I know we always hear the old spare the rod, spoil the child, but not going into abuse would where is that where is there a line drawn between spanking, whippings or whatever you will call it, because I I see everyone seems to have a different interpretation Of that passage. I mean, I got the belt when I was coming up, and most of my generation did, and I think we're better for it. Yeah. However, my my wife, uh she's Polynesian, and their culture, what we called the the whooping was a joke.

To them, they had like beyond whoopings and that was fine for them, but is this like a subjective thing? Yeah, it is very subjective. And you made me remember. I remember an instance my mom and dad were driving, and the three boys, my two brothers and I, were in the back seat being. Just being boys, you know.

And he said, Don't do that. We're kicking each other. And my mom, she had this back scratcher bamboo sliver of pain. And she just turned around and just raked it across our legs evenly. We're all scree, but ah, and I remember that because it was funny, because we all deserved it.

We all got it. It shut us up.

So it was good. At any rate, I actually look back at that with fondness. All right, so different kids are different. And I knew someone who said that all he had to do to his daughter was just give her a look, and she was undone. That was it.

Never had to do anything past that. And then there's others where you velcrome to the ceiling, and it doesn't stop them. You know, so it's just there's just variabilities there so much. But different kinds of punishment are warranted from corporeal to nothing much. It just depends on the child, the situation, the parents, how it all works.

The dynamics is so.

So varied that we can't give a general rule, okay?

Okay, that's good, John. I think, me personally, I have no problem with the good whooping. I haven't had to do it really more than a few times to my kids, but I'd I think it kind of softens the generation up that that gets no whooping, no punching, no anything. And they see a belt and they they pass out before you touch them.

So it's like, okay, well clearly some there's a difference in how people are brought up, but Yeah. Yeah, I I always wanted to ask that one. Yeah, it's worth a discussion and um You know, we make mistakes. All our parents, we make mistakes. You always have regrets.

I know every parent I've ever talked to about would you do things differently? Oh, yes, I do this differently. Because you just don't know until after the fact. And you can't read the heart and mind of a child to know what's effective, what's not. You can try and do what's right and make mistakes and do what's right anyway and do successful stuff.

So there's no guarantee. But we are charged to. To not exasperate them, but to discipline them. And yes, the Bible does talk about corporeal punishment being okay. And uh I certainly got Oh yeah.

I certainly got it when I was growing up. Boy, I'll tell you. We'd get it by the three boys. We'd get it. We deserved it.

So he did right.

So that's what happened. All right. So All right. Thanks a lot, man. Have a good weekend.

You too, brother. God bless.

Okay, hi, little one. All right. Hey, folks, we're out of time. We're just going to start here. And I hope you had a good time, good listening.

Hope it was helpful. And may the Lord bless you. And by His grace, Lord Williams back on here on Monday. You have a great weekend, everyone. God bless.

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