Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is April 21st, 2026. For the podcasters. And if you want to give me a call, All you got to do is dial 877-2072276, just like normal.

And I want to hear from you, so give me a call. You can also email me, info at carm.org, info at carm.org. And we have nobody waiting right now.

So, yesterday, I released an article, and I'm going to see if I can get to it here and talk about a little bit. Because there's so many things working on. In fact, get this. I'm actually working on the newsletter for the first time this year. It just, uh, I, yeah.

So I'm working on that, and um, hopefully, I'll send it out tonight. I gotta learn, teach myself how to do it on a new system.

So, you know, you know me, I'm always learning new things and trying to do this and trying to do that differently.

So that's what I'm up to. And if you sign up for the newsletter, then you'll get it probably tonight or tomorrow. And if you haven't signed up, it's easy. Just go to the Carm homepage. And uh and where is it when it says sign up for the newsletter?

Oh, it's at the top it says newsletter up there, so you can go there and sign up there. And you can get it. It's not a big deal. But it is going to be available, all right.

Now, this article that I worked on. Um And I I field tested it too. Oh man, I oh, I love this stuff.

So I wrote an article in Mormonism. According to Mormonism, is the fall a good thing?

Now the title is meant to catch your attention. And I did some quotes, I found quotes and various things. And so I was in a room last night, and a particular Mormon. Oh man, did he hate? He did not like what I was saying.

And he always calls my research really bad, and no one takes me seriously. He's always denigrating me. And he called me an idiot three times. It's just really, you know, good Mormonism. And so, um And so what I did was, thanks to him.

This is so awful. I actually polished and made this the article even better. Because he would raise this objection.

Okay, I'll talk about that in there. And so I'm going to read to you a quote from Joseph Fielding Smith. Who's the 10th president of the LDS Church? And this is what he said. Check this out.

Most Christian churches teach that the fall was a tragedy. that if Adam and Eve had not partaken of the forbidden fruit, they and all their first p uh posterity could now be living in immortal bliss in the Garden of Eden. But truth revealed to Latter day Prophets teaches that the fall was not a tragedy. Without it, Adam and Eve would not have had a posterity. Thus the fall was a necessary step in the Heavenly Father's plan to bring about the eternal happiness of his children.

Now, the quote goes on.

Now, does Mormonism say the fall itself was good? No, they don't say it's good. But here's the thing. And I get a couple of questions, right? Was the fall of tragedy.

And I asked this Mormon guy who was challenged, he always challenges me. He's got SDS, slick derangement syndrome. Doesn't matter what I say or do, I'm just wrong. And so I like to go into these rooms, raise these LDS issues up because he'll come up like a monkey in a cupcake and try to rip it up. And I'm like, hey, it's a good point.

And I'll add this, I'll refute that. And so he helps me improve these articles. And such is the case with this one last night.

So I wrote, and there's a lot more quotes on the article than just from LDS prophets, so to speak, prophet. The book of Moses, Eve was glad for her transgression. And the book of Mormon, Adam's transgression led to the ability to do good. And this goes on. I mean, this just j yeah, just jo So I had to ask this guy, is the fall a tragedy?

And it took a good 10 minutes. for him to find his sake. No, it w it was a tragedy. He finally, you know, got to say it was. Because he'd be all he would do is I'm just going to read to you what a certain hymn says, you know, in a church in your own Presbyterian church reads it.

I'm like, just answer the question. And people are saying to him, answer the question. And this is pretty typical.

So the summary here is: I'm not going through everything, but in 2 Nephi 2, 22 and 23, without the fall, Adam and Eve would have had no joy because they knew no misery, and without the fall, they could not do good because they knew no sin. And in Moses 10, or excuse me, Moses 5, 10 through 11, Adam considered the fall a blessing since it opened his eyes. Eve can express gladness for the fall that brought them joy. And the LDS prophet Joseph Philip Smith said, It's not a tragedy. it was necessary to bring him happiness.

Now In my conclusion, I say only the ungodly celebrate sin. You see, the fall of Adam and Eve was a devastating moral departure from God's command not to eat of the fruit of the tree. It was, it was a tragedy. And their prophet says it was not a tragedy.

So, you know, I had to dialogue with some people afterwards and say, look, was the fall of Adam and Eve, their actual sinful rebellion against God? Was that act a tragedy or not? Was it sinful or not?

Well, of course it was a tragedy. was bad. That's not to say that good things didn't come out of it, of course. The redemptive work of Christ came out of it, but is the fall itself good or bad?

Well, it's bad.

Okay, but yet the LDS asserts that such a defiance of God's command was ultimately.

Something that brought good, it was good. But how can that be if it's a direct contradiction of God's word?

Now, to the LDS The fall was not a catastrophe, it was a necessary part of God's plan to bring about happiness and wisdom.

So Afterwards, you know, I've got some questions here. Do you believe this is for the Mormons, if you're listening, do you believe that the fall of Adam and Eve was a tragedy? or something else. If it's not a tragedy, what was it? Yeah.

Number two, what does your scripture say that would happen if Adam had not transgressed?

Well, he would have stayed in his his uh con his uh condition, right?

Now here's a really, in my opinion, a devastating question. Would you say that the initial state of Adam and Eve would have been worse? Then the state after the fall. This is a serious question, okay. Would you say that the Um Initial state of Adam and Eve would have been worse.

Then uh after the fault.

Okay. And why would Adam bless God because of his fall into sin? Why would he do that? Why would he bless God? Say, he blesses God because he fell into sin.

And does Eve sound like someone mourning a tragedy or celebrating a necessary good. These are questions to ask of Mormons. And just so you know, the LDS concept turns sin into wisdom, rebellion into goodness, and disobedience into a virtue.

Now Is Mormonism a Christian church? No, it's not a Christian church. It has so many difficulties and problems. But if you're interested in checking out the article, you can go to the Carm home site. According to Mormonism, is the fall a good thing?

And now just so you know In the beginning of the thing, I say in the article, I forgot to mention this. It says that uh Though Mormonism says that sin is bad and the fall is bad too, it presents the fall as beneficial.

So I say that in the article, okay? But uh People sometimes say, Well, I'm misrepresenting them and things like that. And that's what, you know, a lot of people do that automatically.

Well, you're just misrepresenting us.

Well, how do you know? You're Reddit? Have you read it?

Well, I scan through it at lightning speed. And so that's how I know you're representing us. Oh, a Mr.

Okay, good. Yeah, that's all it always is. Hey, there you go. All right.

So let's. Let's get to the next longest waiting is Buskman from Ohio. Hey, brother, welcome, Buskman, man. You're on the air, buddy. Hey, always great to listen to your messages, Scott or Scott and Matt.

I was talking to a friend of mine who's also a scholar in Mormonism. I wanted to run this by you, Matt. It's amazing the serendipitous timing that I'm having with you, brother, on today's program's topic that you started out So in Mason, Ohio, Matt. Uh they have just broken ground. In Mason, Ohio, of a actual temple, not a church man.

A temple, a Mormon temple being erected and constructed. In Mason, Ohio, which is just outside of Cincinnati, would be your large city here in. Yeah. And I got this sense, I believe it was from the Lord, to go down and pray against the building because the. Thank you, Matt.

Thank you. Because the deception that it would provide. Here in Ohio, that it's going to be beautiful. I mean, apparently, Matt, it's going to look just like the one there in Utah. Um I'm assuming anyway.

No, they have different no they have like well over a hundred of them and they look different. Exactly.

Okay, but other Go ahead.

Well, if you would, Matt, and I would love to hear this as a listener of Matt Supply. What are the commonalities that this structure must have and what will take place within it? And I'll listen. I'm going to mute my phone so I can not hear the wind out here. And I would love to hear that.

And then I have another comment, sir, before I leave the air. All right, so you want to know what the combinalities are and what makes them, I guess you could just say, LDS temples. Yeah, the structures. Like, do they have Holy of Holies? What is common through the building that they'll build here in Cincinnati that like they have in Utah?

Let's just say what. What what are the common Things that this building has to have in order to properly conduct the rituals of Mormonism. And then what streams will take place? Yeah, they have a baptistery, uh front and back twelve ox oxen. Uh they have uh what's called the endowment uh room or the endowment ceremonies.

performed and Um Have depictions in film of creation, the fall, laws, things like this. It was called a celestial room, ceiling rooms. things like this. And these are the things that are Are part of the temples and they have rituals that they go in there.

Sometimes, you know, I've heard people say that some kinky, weird stuff goes on in there. No, it doesn't. But there are some very serious demonic activities that go on in the LDS temple. and we can get into them if you want, but uh th I don't know if that answers the question, but but uh That's what the commonalities are, okay?

Okay, so that will be.

So, what will happen in Cincinnati if this edifice is? Built. And I was talking to a local one of their missionaries, Matt. They said, they said, Busman, it should take about three years. And if you go and look at it right now, Matt, and I just left it a couple hours ago, and I did.

I prayed over it and asked God to Not curse the people, Matt, but curse the construction of this edifice. Because it will, I mean, even just the common Cincinnatian, let's just say, might be drawn to go there to find Christ. And we know what will happen, Matt. Yes. Because of the aesthetics of it, the beauty of it, you know, how it's alluring to the eyes.

But we know that no temple God will reside in. that was built by hands. Any structure now Well not Will be abhorrible to God because that structure is made by human hands. And we know that from scripture. If you would like to elaborate, and then that was my last comment, brother.

I can take the rest of your commentary off the air.

So, can you repeat the last question, though? Go ahead. Yes, yes. The allurement that this building will have because it's so beautiful. I mean, I even looked at the pond.

There's a, I don't know if there's a natural body of water that's inside the construction plants, but there's a body of water. And I've wondered, because I know everything has like a ritual symbol. Is that true, Matt? Yeah, there's lots of symbols there. Yes, they are.

And I've been in various temples when they have dedications. When they open them up before they consecrate them, that's open up to the public so Gentiles can go in. People can just go in and walk through them. And I've been in several. And uh, but we got a break, so hold on.

I'll tell you more when we get back, okay?

So hold on, okay. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll talk a bit more about this Mormon Temple stuff. We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Oh, Robin, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Buskman from Ohio. You know, I forgot where you were.

I was doing some research on something and where were we? We were talking about the rituals that go on inside the edifice. Right. And how just, how, how, what, you, you mentioned the word demonic. Could you elaborate on that, Matt?

Yes, it's definitely demonic. One of the things that occurs in there is that Satan does a great deal of teaching. You can go to different websites, Institute for Religious Studies. Wait, where is that? Um And uh it's at mit.irr.org.

Anyway, the Institute for Religious Research. And you can get, you can read through, and it's really worth reading through, the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony. And this was published in 2011.

Now, I've been out there and met the guys who did that years ago. I met them. They're good folks, and the Mormon Temple ceremony is supposed to be a sacred ceremony. Sacred, sacred, sacred, but it's been altered. It's been changed throughout the decades.

And so one of the points is this: that Adam and Eve are there and a preacher and stuff like this. But anyway, when the Mormons go in, they're given a fig leaf apron. This, it's a set. I think it's satin. I think it's satin.

I don't know. It doesn't matter. And I have one. I've got a someone gave me a set of everything. And it's picture a square about 10 inches by 10 inches, and it's got a strap, and you put it over your groin.

And you put it over the temple garments that you wear.

So when you go in there, you're supposed to have temple garments and this apron stuff, and I'm skipping a lot of stuff. You go into a room, and there's a film. And now you don't have the apron on yet, but The the devil Let me see if I can find this. Where exactly is it? The devil says uh uh see you are naked, take some leaves and make you aprons father will see your nakedness quick hide So Lucifer instructs Adam and Eve to make aprons made of fig leaves.

S Satan tells them Make an apron of fig leaves. And the film, so then it goes on. He says, come let us hide, Adam says. The narrator says, Brethren and sisters, put on your aprons.

Now, Satan says, You are naked, take some leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Lucifer says this. Adam says, 'Let's hide' the narrator says, 'Brother and sisters, put on your aprons.

Now The the this is This just blows me away. You're sitting there. And watching Satan in the the the film See Put make some aprons. Put him on. Then the film stopped and says, Folks, you put your aprons on now.

Okay. The film pauses temporarily and the lights are turned up while the patrons are removed Yes, it is. They remove their fig leaf aprons from the bundles. All patrons tie the aprons around their waists. The lights are turned on and the film resumes.

The camera pans down, etcetera.

Now Mm-hmm. Then he comes up and it says, Let's see, where's the priesthood? Hold on a sec. Yeah. So, uh I gotta find this, the Askum.

I had it just a little bit ago. And I was looking, let me see if I can find this.

So um quick hide And Lucifer's okay, here we go.

So What is the apron you have on? Let me go find definitely. What is the ape come on? Oh, you slimball. Maybe they changed it.

But they ask Satan, what's the apron you have on? He has on a fig leaf apron, but it's very, very, very dark. Even to the place of being dark. Satan has an apron on. Did I get that right, Matt?

Satan has an apron on? It's a fig leaf apron. Wow. The Mormons are told Put on the fiddle paper, and there's his green. His is exceedingly dark.

I think even some have said it's black. It's made of fig leaves. And he says, so that the Mormons put on their fig leaf aprons. This is demonic. It's occultic.

It's it what it sounds like to me, just a common thinker, Matt, is To those two, Adam and Eve. Satan is now in the place of God directing the actions and the belief systems of the two. Uh humans. Am I getting that right, Matt? Yes.

In fact, if you read yes, if you read through the ceremony, you'll see how much he does the teaching. In fact, He says, Eve, I know thee now. You art Lucifer, he who has cast out the Father's presence for rebellion. Lucifer says, Yes. You're beginning to see already.

Adam says, What is the apron you have on? Lucifer draws his cloak up to reveal a black apron. Lucifer, it's an emblem of my power in priesthood. I'm looking for father to come down to give us further instructions. Yeah.

And that's when he goes on, and then he instructs them to put on their figly favorance. It's just this ceremony map, this ceremony, when does that place? When does that take place, sir? It's they run through it on a daily basis in the Mormon Temple ceremony.

Okay, and Mormons have to pay a 10% Yeah, they have to pay a 10% tithe of their income before and then they get a temple recommend.

Now, think about this. You have to have 10% of your income for a year documented that you gave to the church. Then you're worthy to go to the temple. After you've paid your money, who keeps that ledger? The pilot does while it's a professor, that's Catholic.

The church. The church eldership does. The church authorities do. Yeah, the church authorities do.

So once you do that, you get your temple recommend. And then you can go to the temple, you get your garments and stuff like that, and you go in there and you go through the ceremony. And you learn handshakes and hugs. Because it's part of the endowment ceremony in order to become a god of your own planet. For the men.

And so uh and all it's just so many things that go on in there. Let me ask you this, Matt. Who who come up with with the rituals? Was that Joseph Smith proper, or was it one of his underlings like Brigham Young? No, Smith.

Smith. Smith did it.

Now, just so you know, Joseph Smith did this.

Now, before 1991, in the Mormon Temple Ceremony, there was something, Peleel, Pelel, Peleel. And you took your right arm and you brought it to the square, which meant your arm is straight out to your right. level to the ground and you bend your elbow up.

So that's called a square. And then while you're doing that, You take your left thumb and put it across your throat. And you say it, do it three times, Peleel, Peleel, Pele. And what it meant was that you would have your blood shed if You revealed what was going on in the temple ceremony.

So you swore a blood oath. Wow. It's kind of like a Harry Carey. Vowel? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, okay.

Now, hold on. Let me explain some stuff because this is important. because Joseph Smith was a mason. And he's a founder of Mormonism, and he was a mason. And most people that I've I know who knows a lot about Mormonism a lot more than I do.

They will say that it looks like he took it from the Masons. The Supporting information from that is that it is similar to the Masons. and they have that blood oath in their ceremony. And when Joseph Smith was in jail and he was murdered. He was murdered.

He shouldn't have been killed, but he was. And he a lot of people don't know this, but his brother Hiram smuggled a gun into the jail. I think it was Hiram. And anyway, Joseph Smith shot in self-defense. I don't blame him.

And he killed two people. and then was killed. But after the break I'll tell you what he said which is why We think it's from the well, I'll tell you what he said. Hold on, we'll get you right back. Hey folks, please stay tuned.

Right back, folks. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, you can.

877-207-2276. Buskman, you're back on. You still there? Yes, sir. Still here, sir.

All right.

So I was researching some more stuff during the break on legality of commentary on the LDS temple ceremony, which is something I think I'm going to do. But uh so that means I forgot what we were talking about. I need to confess it, but it's true. What were we talking about right before the break? Yeah, once again, you were elaborating on the film that you see inside that fig leaf ceremony, and we basically concluded that Satan was teaching Adam and Eve at that point for an extensive amount of information, it sounded like.

And so, what went through my head, Matt, is. I doubt I don't know if there was pirates. You know, I don't know. Oh, I remember now. Thank you.

Is it possible to see that film without going into the temple? I'm just wondering if it's on the internet or something. If somebody makes a pirate bootlegged it, I'm just wondering. Go ahead, sir. Yes, I knew about it before it was released.

And someone went in and had a camera. and went into the temple ceremony and and you I believe you can find it on YouTube.

So, you can go check it out. But there are transcripts. How long is the film? How long is it a few minutes? Oh, no, it's like a half hour, 45 minutes, or something like that.

But.

So I was going to say, when Joseph Smith was being murdered, and he was murdered, fair's fair accuracy. But the reason he was in jail is because he had damaged a printing Press area. And so he got jailed for that because that printing press was putting information out harmful to the Mormon church.

So he silenced it. He was arrested. And people are very upset because it's one of the basic rights in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is also cancel culture. He was early cancel culture. Wow.

Yeah, that's what it was. And so, while he was being mobbed. He said Is there no help for the widow's son? That is a Masonic distress call. And according to Mason lore, you're supposed to, if you're a Mason, someone says that you're obligated to help them.

But it looks like Joseph Smith had he had been a Mason, that he took the Mason ceremony and incorporated it into the LDS ceremony, which included the blood oath, Paleel, Paleel, Paleel. Where you slit your own throat with your left thumb symbolically. Since he had taken that oath in the eld in the Uh Masons uh ceremony. They came to execute him. And so, this is the theory.

It's got good support. We can't prove it's true. Because he said that statement, seeing. that there were uh masons in the crowd. He was appealing to help, but it looks like they were there to get him.

And they did. He got shot in the face and and he he was killed.

So yep. Yeah. Now do they learn does does your basic say you convert to Mormonism or you you engage. Do you when do you learn that as a Mormon, as an LDS member? You have to be a from what I understand, you have to be a good a member of good standing for a year.

And then you can't do that. Tire thing and everything else.

Now, think about this. Think about this, because you you have to pay money. make sure it's paid up to go into a temple and what's at the top of the temple. and an image of an angel.

Okay. Of Moroni, yeah, with the trumpet, the golden image of Moroni with the trumpet, yes, sir. and what they do in the temple under the overarching Uh Image Of the Moronite angel is that they kneel down inside the temple in the ceremony, in varying places in their ceremony. And I've done t it's called temple work. We call it, you know, when you go to the openings of Mormon temples, I've done them, I've done several.

And you just hold up signs, and I guess good stories. I got stories of Mormons coming unglued, threatening me, things like this. And some Mormons are really nice. But anyway, I got stories. And so um This is how being lost a lot of our train of thought.

So oh yeah, so I asked the Mormons, I was like, why do you pay money? Why do they pay tithing to go into the temple of God and be made worthy to be in his presence? What happened to the blood of Christ doing that? Great point. That's an awesome point, sir.

and I'll also ask em um because it says that the veil was torn. The Bailey Temple was torn from top to bottom in Matthew 27:51. Yeah, yep. Yeah, so it was torn from the top to the bottom, and I'll ask them. And say, why does your temple put back what God destroyed?

The temple veil. They put a representation on it. Nothing.

So what they do with the um So, I say this to the crowd. I'll explain what I mean by saying it to the crowd here in a little bit. But in the Mormon temple ceremony they have a veil It's reminiscent of the temple veil. And it has a slit in it, and you shake hands with a guy on the other side of the veil, symbolizing handshakes and tokens and things like this. And so I asked him.

Why do you have to pay money? Get 10% of your tithe income. paid up. before you're made worthy to go to a temple where you bow down under a golden image And you have a veil, you have a veil that God destroyed, and the LDS church puts back.

Now, I say this when I'm outside holding up signs. I have a sign, I've got to make sure my website's back up, is MormonismChristian.com. And I will just stand there with the sign. I haven't used it for a while, so I don't know if it's still working. and I'll stand out on the on public property Let me give the setting here.

So you open up a temple. They open up a temple. And they canvass the area, they try and get people to come in, they want everybody to see the beauty, the majesty of the temple, blah, blah, blah. And they invite people, they invite everybody.

So I'll go, I'll go into the temple ceremony, and I don't cause any problems. I mean, temple ceremony, excuse me. I go into the temple. I don't cause any problems. I'm on their property.

I'm not there to cause any problems. I just go to just to listen to see how things are going. And once I made some temple workers, people who are working there, I made them laugh. because we were going uh there was a a staircase and uh And one of the guys was missing. I guess he went to the bathroom.

So, nothing nefarious. And one of the guys who worked at the temple goes. This is during the the openings, you know, when the before they use it for official business. He said, Where did that guy go? and I and I I just nodded.

Or I shook my head and I made a diving sound over the stairs and I pointed to the stairs and he chuckled. But but uh I'm not there to cause you a problem, but outside on public property, I'll hold up the signs. And the way these things are constructed is there's always access visually and verbally to be able to, almost always, to be able to say things and hold up signs that they can see.

So, I will stand there like the one I did here in Boyce, in Meridian, Idaho, a few years ago. I would stand out there, I'd be fifteen, twenty feet away from people, and the fence would be between, I'd be Raising my voice, not in a yelling, but you got to raise your voice, you know. Why is it? You know, Matthew 27:51, God destroyed the veil. Why does your church put it back in your temple?

Just ask the same question. I don't do too many complicated questions. I just ask the same one over and over and over. Then I'll switch up and ask a different question over and over and over. What is their response generally, Matt, when they hear you?

Just a nod, a disgust. Do they not pay attention? What do the people do? They stare at me and then chuckle, scoff, and and turn their backs to me, usually. That's usually what happens.

And I was out in front of one church. I'll just tell you stories. I was out in front of one. where uh one uh temple here in Meridian and I was on the sidewalk which is legal I can do that. They called the cops on me, and the cops said there's nothing they could do because I was holding a sign-up.

I was not obstructing traffic. pedestrian or vehicular, I would just Just hold the asylum. This Mormon guy comes out, and long story short, he tried to get me to take a swing at him. He got in my face within just eight inches of my face. and was posturing.

Aggressively. Wow. And I kept backing up, and I just said, You're putting me in a state of apprehension. That is assault. Please stop assaulting me.

And he kept doing it. Got backed up, and I could have taken him out. I did martial arts. I could have laid them out flat, but I wasn't going to do anything. And I just kept backing up and finally his wife stepped in.

and told him to stop. And he did. After he left, a Mormon guy who was working there. He came up to me and he said, Look, That doesn't represent Mormonism. And I said, I know, I agree.

He's just being a jerk. And he says, The Mormon guy said to me, Look, if this happens again, just Cross the yard, come into the building, we'll protect you. I said, thank you very much. Wow, Matt, that's incredible. That's coming from a fellow morrow, sir.

Absolutely. They're not bad people. Wow. I've been at Mormon churches where they've given me bottles of water. And so I'm not saying the local church did with me.

How can we help you, bossman, on your travels? Is what Mr. Jolie said. He went by bishop here in Dayton, Ohio. Yeah.

Hello, Mr. Jolie, if you're listening, by the way.

So, Drink, that's incredible, man. Yeah, they're nice people for the most part, okay? It's a false religion.

Okay, buddy, we've got to go, and maybe I'll tell one more story after the break because that was a good story.

So we've got to go, buddy. God bless.

Alright, hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show.

We'll get to Cole here in just a minute. Let me tell you a quick story that happened to me while I was kind of a funny story a little bit. I was out passing out literature in front of a Mormon ward years and years ago. I had eggs thrown at me. I've been threatened with arrest.

I've been threatened to be beat up, various things. This one time I was just passing out literature, and I always try and be respectful. And I always try and not get people's way and not do anything bad. I'm just exercising my right to be able to, you know. Uh Do what we do.

freedom of religious expression.

So I was passing out this tract that I'd written. And people were getting upset by it because I documented Mormon teachings, and they were getting upset.

So, okay, they can get upset. I'm on the sidewalk, which is public property. And walking back and forth and stepping out of the way onto the public grass when people would be on the sidewalk, I was being very careful. And um Just one Mormon comes up and he He he's upset. Yeah.

Yeah. No. And because apparently Yeah. Apparently he um I'd read the track, and I remember he came out of the Mormon ward with his straight beeline across the grass straight to me with an aggressive, kind of determined, strong gait, just very quick. And he heads straight for me, and he gets onto the sidewalk with me, and I'm like, oh boy, here we go.

And he says, Are you the guy passing this out? Obviously, I am passing this out. And I said yes, and uh He um He goes, Well, I see one of those and I got a Hand him, you know, reach forward, he grabs the entire hand, the stack of my papers. In my hand, which is like two inches thick, and he grabs the whole thing and he's pulling at him. And so now we're having a tug of war.

And he got, I don't know, fifty or sixty of them, I don't know fifty, seventy, I don't know. He got a few and tried to rip them and threw him on the ground and he took a step towards me. And I had backed up. I always back up because I'm not going to do anything. If he strikes me, I'll still back up.

If he keeps coming at me, then it's on. But he came at me towards me, stepped toward me, and some of the Mormon guys grabbed him. to their credit. They grabbed him and stopped them. I said, You can't do that.

Right. So, what he had done was, it's called Assault and Battery. He tried to stop my rights of. Re religious expression.

So he really blew it. We could have had him arrested and sued him. And I could do that, but this is how many he blew it.

So they ushered him off. They ushered him off into the ward. And uh And the other Mormons, they're really nice. They helped pick up the papers and gave them back to me and they apologized. And I said, Look, I understand.

I said, I'm not mad at you guys, and I thank you for being so polite to me. I appreciate it. I know this is not what you want to see, but this is just an expression. I believe you guys have got some issues. And I was very polite, and they were too.

And I'm going to just tell it flat out, they were nice, okay? About 10 minutes or so later, this guy comes walking out again, but he's got two suits. Walking next to him, left and right. And his approach is a lot more sedated. And he walked up to me and I could see the strain on his face.

Board guy? I'm not laughing at him. It's just, I get it. And um And so he walks up, and you can tell they were instructing him what to do. And he came up to me and he says, Good.

I need to apologize for my behavior. You got a strained face that he's forcing these words out. And, you know, I'm not laughing at him, but I just said, look, I understand. I apologize. I mean, I said, I apologize.

I said, I understand. And I accept your apology. And I understand this is difficult. I said, but I really believe in what I'm doing, and I just thank you for your apology. And I took a track, I gave it, I motioned to Torres.

I said, so do you want one? His eyes bugged out and he just, he's like Frankenstein. He just turned to the right and he started walking back across the grass back into the okay. Thanks.

So anyway, that was it. And you know, you take risks when you do this kind of stuff. You do. Let's get to, whoops, I just hit the wrong button. Let's get to Cole from Georgia.

Cole, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah. Yeah. THE Okay.

Yeah. Now, now he's what? I got going on today, man. Um No. 1 Corinthians 15.

Okay. House. First 20 minutes. Uh-huh. Baptizing to the dead, yes.

Verse verse 29 to 34. That's the effects of denying the resurrection. I want you to read 2019. I want your take on verse 29. Yeah, otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead?

If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? Yeah. The Mormons will use this verse, and I'm very familiar with it. They'll use it to justify their their doctrine of and practice of baptizing people for the dead. The idea is in Mormon theology there's three levels of heaven.

The upper top one is celestial, and the next one is is uh terrestrial, and celestial is the the bottom. And so you can uh move, uh so to speak, uh In the kingdom, if someone has baptized for you in proxy, because you need to be baptized.

So you died without being baptized, so someone baptizes in your stead in the Mormon temple. All right.

So they use this as a justification, but notice what it says. It says, what we. Uh What will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? It doesn't say we.

Paul's not saying that he's doing it, nor is he advocating to do it. He's in the context of the resurrection chapter of 1 Corinthians 15. If the resurrection is not true, why do they even baptize for the dead? Because they believe in the resurrection. And this is in the context of others who are doing it, not the Christian church, okay?

Camera Whitewood. Why wouldn't he uh rebuke it? If it was wrong, if it wasn't true, why would he even, you know, reference it? The purpose wasn't to rebuke it. The purpose was saying, even they believe in the resurrection.

That's why they're doing that. They, not us.

Okay. Yeah, but he never denied it. Yeah, he didn't. You gotta deal with that, Matt. You can't avoid it.

I was just gonna say that you're right. He did not rebuke it. but he didn't affirm it. The context of its usage is in the context of the resurrection. That is coming.

That's what he was doing, okay?

So It's insane that. I don't know about the Morm Mormons. That's not even what I was calling about the Mormons. Because I believe that they're a false religion. But I was just calling you about that particular verse.

I didn't even know that the Mormons had anything to do with that. Oh, okay. Yeah, but I was just I read that's my chapter of the day, and I read across that. And I and I and it I looked, I said, Wow, this is crazy, because Playwood Paul even referenced that. If it wasn't, you know, it had to be some kind of legitimacy choice.

Why would he reference it? Uh Well Um it's not legitimate. Um So The anyway, early church leadings hint towards the issue that it was practiced, baptism for was for the dead was practiced by the Marcionites, which is a heretical group.

Okay. Work. You know what, though, man? That would be nice if it was true. I would love that.

If you could baptize somebody who was dead, that would be sweet. Because there are a lot of people I I know that probably didn't, you know, Make it or whatever. I could be baptized for him.

Somebody could be baptized for him. That would be nice. I'm not saying it's true or not true, but I'm just saying that would be nice. It depends on what the purpose of it would be. In Mormon theology, it is to help them progress and understand in the afterlife.

But the Marcionites They uh They were heretical.

Okay, they said that the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament were different. Among other things. Yeah, that's that yeah.

Okay, well Paul Paul said a lot of stuff that was kind of um You know, opinionated. He even said that himself. He said, My opinion on some stuff.

So a lot of people is opinionated by Paul. Yes, but he also quoted pagan philosophers. He says, you know, he calls Erastus and Epimenides, but it doesn't mean that they're true. He would use them as illustrations of various things. And that's what he would do.

Yeah, I understand that.

Okay, all right, man. I didn't think I was gonna get in because you took almost A half an hour. I thought you were avoiding me on the Mormon subject. He's going to take up a half hour on the Mormon subject. No, the reason I took a long time is because The reason I took a long time on that is because there are two stations in the Salt Lake City area.

that carries the shell and I want Mormons to hear. Oh Oh yeah.

Okay, thanks. I understand that. But yeah, I don't want that's why it's good not to judge people.

So yeah, thank you. Thank you for doing that.

Okay. Yeah. All right.

Okay. All right, man. I'll call you next time. I got another question, but I'm going to let somebody else get in.

Well, there's nobody waiting right now, so if you want to ask that question, you're welcome to. We've got about four minutes left of the show. Oh yeah, okay, this one's on the next chapter. The next chapter of sixteen, verse eight.

Okay, it says I will remain at Ephesus until Pentecost. Yes, my question is. Pentecost.

Now, I tried to look that up and I still couldn't get an understanding of it. How is that? The Pentecost, I know it's Acts 2:38, right? That's the Pentecost, you know, when the Holy Spirit comes down. But how is that celebrated in that context of that verse?

Can you explain that? 'Cause I I tried to research it and I still couldn't get in. I'm not sure I understand the question. Pentecost.

So, okay, I'm sure. Is it a celebration for today? Because because Paul's reference is I I I see it that the Catholics and uh one other religion, they do they do uh observe that after Christmas. They do observe it after uh Easter. They really do forty nine days after Easter, I believe, forty six or forty nine days.

I tried to do some research on him, but I still wasn't clear. Yeah, Penta, it has to do with 15 after the days of the Sabbath of the Passover.

So they would celebrate this, Pentecost, Penta, you know, five. And so it has to do with. after the Passover. That's when the Holy Spirit came down in Acts 2 on Pentecost. Uh so that's it.

Mm-hmm.

So he was just I never hear Christians uh celebrating that.

Okay, okay, oh, okay, I think I'm understanding now. Why don't we celebrate Pentecost as Christians? The 50 day after, oh. Oh, well, we don't have to. It was a Jewish custom.

That's all. And we can, if we want, we don't have to. It's not necessary to do that. He says he'll remain in Ephesus until Pentecost. And by the way, I've been to Ephesus, so I love when I see the word Ephesus.

I can remember walking the streets. It's really nice. And thanks, Eric Johnson. And so it's all it is, just an Old Testament thing, and it was still being done in lots of areas around the Mediterranean. And he just did that to Pentecost, a Jewish holiday.

He just was remaining in Ephesus until Pentecost because there were Jews there. Throw it to a top. It's optional really, what you're saying. Yeah, it's optional. That's all.

Okay, okay.

Now, uh, what about communion? Is that optional? No, we're commanded to do that. We're commanded to take the communion word. Christ institutes it, so we're supposed to do that.

But Pentecost is not commanded anywhere, it's a Jewish holiday. It didn't begin, Pentecost didn't begin in Acts 2. It continued. It's simply the 50th day. after the Sabbath of the Passover.

It's a Jewish thing. and they still practiced it. And if you want to celebrate it, fine, you're free to, okay?

Alright but we better go home. Oh, okay. Alright, got you.

Okay, hey everybody, hope you enjoyed that show. It was interesting. May the Lord bless you and by His grace, we'll be back on here tomorrow, and we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, everyone. God bless.

Another program powered by the Truth Network.