Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carn.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Uh There we go. You hit the mute button off. All right, everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick.

You're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want, you can give me a call, the number. Is 877-2072276. And you can email me at info at CARM.org, info at carm.org. Today's date is January 14th, 2026.

We weren't live yesterday because I had phone problems. And uh that does happen so that the phones just weren't Calls weren't coming in. I go, okay, I got a million things to do. And uh got going and did a lot of stuff. Been working.

Been working, so you know, there you go. All right, I've got a sneeze manifesting here in a minute, so I hope, I hope they go away. Oh, I hope it goes away. Oh, no, don't sneeze. And what we'll do here.

Oh, good, I think it's going away. Like I said, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-2072276. You can watch the show, watch me do the thing here in the radio station or my office here at the home. That's easy. All you have to do is just go to Carm, I mean, excuse me, rumble.com.

Rumble.com forward slash Matt Slick Live. And you can watch it there. You can also watch it on Facebook. Match Look Live and YouTube. Matchlift Live.

It's not that big a deal watching it, but the good thing is that In Rumble, we have a lot of people who chat and text, and they're good, good people. uh make good jokes, crack me up sometimes, we have a good time. All right, I think that is it. Why don't we just jump on the line? Let's just see and get to.

Hayden from Ohio. Hey Aiden, welcome. You're on the air. Hello? Hello.

You're on your butter? How are you doing? I'm hanging in there, man. Hanging in there. Yep.

Yeah, I get it. Hey, Messley.

Well, thank you for taking my call. Thank you so much. I just had some questions.

So I'm an evangelical. I got saved my sophomore year of high school. It um I don't even know how to describe it. Like, just my whole like. life changed and everything.

And I started desiring uh what I want said and and started like not well, started hating what I once loved and everything. And but recently, so that was about two or three years ago, But recently I've been having like a lot of doubts with uh Looking looking into and researching Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. And I just wanted your. kind of your thoughts on those sects or even other religions. I've just been watching a lot of debates with that because I really love apologetics a lot.

And But it definitely has definitely hindered me, I think, a little bit in my faith. What would you say to that? Um hmm, I do. A lot of things you've said there.

So let me ask you, um, are we saved by grace through faith? Yes, I believe that. I believe that in Romans, like almost everywhere, Romans three.

Okay, so yes or yes, okay.

So are we justified by faith alone in Christ alone? Yes. From reading the Bible, I would say yes, that's what the Bible says.

Alright, well, I'm going to read you a quote from Confessions of Disithia, 1672. I'm going to read you two quotes. This is the official creed of the Eastern Orthodox Church. All right? And it says, We believe a man to be not simply justified through faith alone, but.

Through faith, which works through love, that is to say, through faith. and works.

Okay, and it goes on in the same paragraph, it's or the same decree, it's decree 13. It goes on a little bit later, not the same decree, same paragraph. We rather believe that it is not the correlative of faith, but the faith which is in us justifies. through works. Decree 3 says, For thus the Scripture would be opposed to itself, since it promises the believer salvation through works.

Okay, that's what it says. That's definitely eye-opening. I haven't read a lot of that, but I don't know if you know some of the people like I've been watching debates with James White and Trent Horn and Gavin Ortland. That's more on the Catholicism side. That's Catholic.

Let's still get on that just a bit. Yeah, and I've also been watching Jay Dyer and his debates and different things of that sort. Yeah, Jay Dyer's, he's good, but he's not as good as he thinks he is in the EO thing. I've had encounters with him, and they always claim that he slaughtered me and destroyed me. But what it is, is he's not really able to deal with the difficult issues.

What he's good at is just kind of getting around them without really addressing things. That's what he's good at. And so he can't answer multiple questions, and neither can Trent Horne.

Now, these are serious things. These are serious issues. Both of the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic churches are not Christian. Their doctrines of salvation are false. Because I just read the decree 3 and 13, which says that you're justified by your faith and your works.

And we know that's not true. You know that for a fact from Bibli Bible Revelation, right? Of course. Yeah. I mean, I totally agree with that.

I mean, sorry.

So it's okay.

So you know the Bible teaches justification by faith.

Now, what do you do with a group that says justification is by faith and works? Is it true?

Well, no. I mean, I no, I would definitely say it's not. I mean, what some of the things that they'll say is like The sacraments are a means of grace, for example. I've heard. One thing at a time, one thing at a time, you're going to focus.

Okay. East Orthodox Church preaches the false gospel. The Roman Catholic Church preaches a false gospel. It says in paragraph 2068 that you attain salvation through faith, baptism, and the observance of the commandments. That's what it says.

In paragraph 2070, it says: The law is best represented, the natural law is represented in the Ten Commandments. An expression of the natural law is the Ten Commandments. And then paragraph 2036 says that you attain, it's necessary to keep the natural law in order to be saved. You have to keep the Ten Commandments to be saved.

Now, right there. Those two churches are teaching the false gospel, aren't they? Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, from just reading the Bible, yeah, I agree.

Okay. Now let's do the sacraments, but we'll tie it into the priesthood. Because both of them have a priesthood.

Now, think about this. Imagine I don't know if you've been to either church or seen their ceremonies. You have a guy. up there at an altar. in front of the church.

And he has special garments on, he has special authority. He presents the Eucharist. as a means of grace, that you if you participate then you're going to become more righteous. And this means of grace, this Eucharistic sacrifice, they call it, is represented at the altar. on a regular basis, right?

Yeah. Okay. It's not in the Bible. It's not in the New Testament. It's in the Old Testament.

There is no New Testament priesthood of men at a church with an altar at a church service where he has special authority, special garments, and offers and represents a sacrifice over and over. And that representation is propitiatory. It removes sin. Because it's Blasphemous. And the reason that is because Colossians 2.14 says Jesus canceled the sin debt.

at the cross. Having therefore Cancel the sin at at the cross. It cannot be that it's canceled again, over and over again, propitiatorily speaking, by the sacrifice at the altar of a church when there is no altar at the church. There is no priesthood like that. There's two priesthoods mentioned in the Bible, in the New Testament.

After the death of Christ, the priesthood of Christ, Hebrews 6.20, 7.25, the Molecathetic priesthood, and the priesthood of the of all believers. In first Peter chapter two, verses five and eight, I believe it is, or nine. That's it. They have a false priesthood. You have to go up.

And get the Eucharistics up with our sacraments to get grace put upon you so that you can become more like God. Who's in charge of your salvation? I think about this. Jesus is the way. Yeah, they're churches.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to God but by them. The EO and the RC both say they are the true church and the only way to go to God is through them. They say they are the way to God. They're the ones who have the truth of who God is.

They're the ones who present the life in the Eucharistic supper that gives you the eternal life with their baptism and their structures. They have functionally replaced Christ with themselves. You know, I'm I want to debate Jay Dyer again, and I want to just come off like a monkey in a cupcake, rip him up. And this time I'm not going to let him get away with, and this time I'm not letting him get away with not being able to address serious issues. I had someone watch that discussion, that debate, and he said, he talked to me, he goes, man, I watched that.

He goes, that guy can't answer anything. I said, I know. Because his theology is so bad. He got personal and doesn't do well.

Now, let me tell you. The Eastern Orthodox, the Roman Catholic Church. Each of them is not a Christian church. It is not true Christianity. Go on if you want.

Yeah, I definitely I think I definitely agree with you. Yeah, that's definitely really helped me what what you've what all you said. Do you have anything like that's um I don't know. Like I definitely agree with you that a lot of these things are historical accretions, and it would be accurate to say That they're anachronisms, like definitely the easiest one to go after Marian dogmas, um, but also like. the papacy and different things of that sort.

But Would you have like any arguments? I know with the research I've had is the main things that defend our beliefs is Sola scripture uh Which is authority and justification by faith alone.

Sola fide. Would you have any like Anything to say on defending those? Of course. No, Sola Scriptura, we can talk about. I've got them on Carm.

You can just look up Sola Scriptura and Justification by Faith. There's articles. It's right there. But what they're going to do, here's a tactic. All right, awesome.

Here's a tactic.

Okay? You have to tell me where the Bible came from and who authenticated it in order for you to use it. It's a l it's a it's a claim they make, right? Yeah. Have you heard this?

Sure. Have you heard this claim that they'll both make, that we're not allowed as Protestants, we're not allowed to use the Word of God, the Bible, because we can't justify where it came from and how it got here? Yes. Yeah. They'll say they'll say the they'll use the canon argument, for example, and saying like, therefore, the church has to be infallible in order to see infallible scripture.

Yeah. And and all so this is all fallacious thinking on their part, okay?

So let me ask you a question. Do I have to know where medicine came from and how it was developed in order to use it? Yeah, no, not at all. I agree.

So their argument that It's a basic logic flaw on their part. The logic is: you can't justify how the Bible's gotten here, so we're the ones who will tell you what it is. It's faulty thinking, it's faulty logic. And I'm calling them on the carpet. See, that's just fallacious thinking.

People say, Well, how do you know the Bible is true?

Well, the Spirit of God bears witness with my Spirit that it's true. Because Jesus says, My sheep are healed my voice. And the true Christians recognize the word of God. They didn't have the authority to declare what is true. They only recognized the sheep don't declare the authority to say that's the shepherd.

They recognize the voice of the shepherd. The false religious systems, what they do is they want to put themselves as the place and authority. that you submit to them, their ecclesiologists. They're church worshippers. They're idolatry.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. They affirm sola ecclesia instead of sola scriptura. And would you. How do you know the church is true?

I just did this a couple nights ago, a few nights ago. How do you know the church is true to an EO guy? You know, we got a break coming up. How the other church is true, and he goes through the scriptures.

So, use the scriptures to authenticate your church, right? That's authentic against the scripture, it's circularity. If you're out you can't do that. Hold on, we got a break. I'm very familiar with all this stupidity from them.

It's a lot. It'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll be back on with Hayden from Ohio. Right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Hayden from Ohio. You still her buddy?

Yes, sir, thank you.

Okay. Alright, so um I forgot where you were actually. I was working on something in the break. What were what what did we leave off with? Try to remember.

Uh well, we left off with you were talking about how the church how do you know the church is true? And basically then they have to tell you that they're true. It's the circularity. And I was going to touch on that too. Real quick, because I tried to formulate an argument once that if you have to interpret an ecumenical council or a church council or a pope yourself, Ultimately, it comes down to your interpretation yourself And ultimately that's why the presuppositions that I believe that you have to have that are necessary for identifying scripture.

is you just have to have faith in God first. You have to have faith that God has made you, that you can recognize scripture, that you've been born, or sorry, made in the image of God. and the Holy Spirit to guide you. That's right. That's right, you don't need their church.

You don't need their church. You need Jesus. Want me to show you one of the ways I prove to them that they are church worshipers? Yeah. It's really easy.

I ask him questions. I say, Look, Let me ask you, is Jesus God in flesh? And they'll say yes. Did Jesus say in John 14, 14, Ask me anything in my name and I will do it? Yes.

Does Jesus forgive sins? Yes. If you were to sincerely pray and ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins, Will he? That puts them at a problem. If they say yes, I'm going to say You don't need your priesthood and go to the priests, do you?

You can go straight to Jesus, right?

Well, you see, Jesus gave us the church, blah, blah, blah. And I tell them after they're done talking about how great their church is. I say, Jesus says, Matthew 12:34, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. What's in you? is what you speak about and what you speak about is your church.

far more than Jesus. We know who's Lord in your life, and who's the king on the throne of your heart? It's your church.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean I still like, yeah, I'm not saying it wrong at all. I'm not saying that, but yeah, church, God, or yeah, God gave us a church.

And but I believe that they equivocate that with an institutional church and not the church of the universal body of Christ. That's right. And they do the equivocation to justify submission to the true church. It's always about our true church. Our church is the true church.

You need to belong to our church because salvation is found in our church. That's a cult. See, Joseph Smith founded, rediscovered, he re-founded true Christianity and the true church as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And Jehovah's Witnesses, their true prophet Charles Taze Rossall, and now it became the Watchtower Bible and Track Society, they're the ones, and they had to belong to God's true organization. It belonged to the organization.

Always demonic forces want you to get close to Christ and take your eyes off of Him, put Him onto a prophet, a prophetess, a system, or a church. Instead of just coming to Jesus and saying, Jesus. Uh you're the only one I need.

Well, God gave us the church, the pillar and foundation of truth. I say, yeah, good. What church? The fine church in the Bible. Because the word ecclesia is used in at least five different ways in the Bible.

Which ones are you talking about? The church at Corinth, the church at Thessalonica, where it's a local body, you're talking of the church at large. Where is it in the New Testament that you find an overarching ecclesiastical authority with a single patriarch or pope who oversaw everything? You don't. It's because these idolaters Not only the idolaters in that respect, but also with Mary, which I can get into very easily.

They are idolaters in that they promote the church above Christ. Because if they can go straight to Jesus, they don't need their priesthood. But they're tied up to their priesthood. They want their priesthood. Got to go get stuff from the guy with the garments, the special authority.

Go get the sacraments that are going to infuse grace into you, make you more like Jesus, so you can get to become like him enough to become saved. Just it's It's from the pit of hell. It's it's It's just false doctrine. Yeah, I definitely I definitely agree. Yeah, I think that's definitely really great insight.

I mean, Um yeah. Here. We show you something else. Mm.

So they can pretty marry.

Okay, and the saints. When I say okay. I did some mathematics. 1.925 billion Catholics and Eastern Orthodox in the world. Let's pick a number.

One in 500. Let's say one in 500 persons. is praying to marry at any particular time. I think that's Awfully low. What if 500?

Let's just say that. That would mean then, hold on. That would mean then that thirty-four million people are praying to marry at the same time.

Now, that means it's going to be happening where this person stops, another person starts.

So we have an average of 500 million people. Or it should be 34 million people praying simultaneously. 24 hours a day all over the world, just as a mathematical average. Which means then that Mary has to hear all the prayers. Simultaneously.

Spoken in thought in different languages all over the world. And she has to know the intentions of their hearts because sometimes you can pray with wrong motives. We can't answer those. And she has to know the context of the prayer because sometimes you might be confused about something until she can know how to answer it better. Also, she has to know the will of God exhaustively for each person so that she can properly apply.

Each answer, and she has to be able to simultaneously instruct all kinds of angels to go do stuff to answer prayers. No, I see it in them. Yeah, it's a goddess.

So you're basically. It's a goddess. Yeah, so basically, yeah, you're making her omniscient, like giving her basically godly attributes. And I've definitely seen that in the prayer books and different things of that sort. Like, just blatantly saying, like, the co-redemptorics and all this, like, I agree with you, that's definitely blasphemous.

And, like, I would never. pray a prayer like that. That's right. And so it's just ridiculous. And then their view of the Eucharist, let me just show you this, okay?

When Jesus was crucified, That's when the new covenant was instituted. That's per Hebrews 9:15 through 16. With the death of Christ, a new covenant's instituted, which means before that time, he's under the old covenant. The old covenant in Hebrews, excuse me, in Leviticus 17:14 says, Do not drink or eat the blood of any flesh. was Jesus then telling the disciples to eat blood?

his own blood. Tabid Yeah, no. A problem. No, and uh Yeah, 'cause they'll the one of the things they'll say is like, oh, well, Jesus, well, it's in, I mean, I don't even know how they would argue if it's just spirit, because in the creeds, isn't it body?

Soul, spirit, and divinity, something of that sort. Yeah, but I don't see how. Let me work through this, okay? 'Cause there there's problems with it. I want to show you there's problems, okay?

So, what they'll then say is, it's the sacrificed body and blood when he instituted it, though he hadn't yet been sacrificed.

Well, how'd that work? Also, there's what's called essential and accidental properties of something.

So let me give you an example of something. And this works out for logic, and logic exists because it reflects the mind of God. And so God could only do that which is consistent with his nature. The laws of logic are emanations of his universal essence.

So that's why I will use logic.

Now we do that. I'll get back from the break. I'll show you the stuff about the logic of The accidentals in their Eucharistic supper, and it'll explain what's a problem, and they got other callers.

So hold on, buddy. I know a lot going fast. Hey, thank you so much.

Okay, hold on, folks. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back with Hayden.

Are you still there, buddy? Yes, sir.

Okay, let me show you one more thing and then we've got to go because I've got callers waiting and uh thi this is a big topic for me, the lies and the false teachings of the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches.

So that's why I spend time on it.

So here's here's a uh a problem, okay.

Now I have to teach you a little concept though. There's what's called an essential property of something.

So in order for something to be what it is, it has to have that property, otherwise it doesn't exist.

So for example, a circle necessarily has to have roundness. It's roundness is essential to a circle. You can't separate circleness from roundness. It's just impossible to logically doesn't work. An accidental property would be the thickness of a line of a circle or the diameter, because the diameters can vary.

in a particular circle, but all circles will have the identical arc. No. If you have, for example, the body and the blood. These are by necessity physical because Jesus' body is physical. The essential properties of what is physical, in the blood and the wine, must exist.

along with the essence of something. If the essence is transferred, a blood is transferred to wine, and the body is transferred to the bread. then necessarily the essential properties of the physical objects must be transferred with them, otherwise they don't exist. Yet, what they'll do is they'll say the physical properties don't exist. But the essence does.

That's like saying we transferred the essence of a circle to a square, but there's no roundness in the square. That's how we can do that. It's foolishness, it's just illogical. But this is what they do. Yeah, I definitely understand that.

Okay, this is what they do to justify their error.

So, error always begets more error.

Okay. I can go on and on, but there you go. All right, buddy?

Okay. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Yes, I'll definitely I'll check out all those articles and I'll keep thinking through all of this. Thank you so much.

All righty man, you're good. God bless.

Okay. All right, thank you.

Okay. All right, let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome, buddy. You're back. On the air, what's up, buddy?

Hey, yeah, great conversation, Matt. Um It kind of leads me into my my question. I was I know you are you familiar with Scott Adams, the writer of the Dilbert series? Oh, uh, yeah, something about him. He's something.

Anyway, yeah, I read something about him, but can't remember. What's up? He so yeah, he's he's passed away from Battling cancer, and I was one of the people who've been praying for him. I know lots of Christians are reaching out to him. And he was pretty much an avowed atheist until the very end He made a statement that He was going to accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

And That sounded good on the surface, but his final statement read by his ex wife said he He didn't necessarily believe But it was almost like and insurance policy. And so he was going to confess the GI. He he was gonna go ahead and confess. Because the uh you know, the risk reward factor Being in favor of something good, and if he Opened his eyes in heaven after he died, then that would be all the proof he needs.

Now, I'm not trying to To bring anything negative on his statement, but I saw a lot of Christians running with this and. For me, I just reserve judgment. I leave that to God because I don't know what he actually believes.

Well, do people actually think that making a simple statement is concrete enough to get them into heaven.

Well We're not saved by statements. We're saved by the work of God upon us, opening our hearts to believe in Him. Could it have happened with this guy? It it surely could have.

Now here's a question. To what degree must we knowledgeably be sincere in order to receive Christ? We use one. It's a tough question because when I received Christ, and it's not that I make doctrine out of my own experience, but first-hand experience, my attitude was: I'll give him a try. And then, wham, the Holy Spirit was there.

Mm-hmm. And it was him. And then, you know, here I am, you know, 52 years later. But so people I believe people can be saved in different levels of knowledge and commitment and understanding.

So, I can't answer if he was or wasn't sincere. How much is sincerity? What do you need? 89.3284% sincerity? I don't know.

If he puts his faith in Christ, even a little, faith of a mustard seed, that's enough to justify him. But I can't say what he did or didn't do, and no one can. That's between him and God. Let's hope he did, even though on the surface we can certainly have our doubts, but You know? Right, and it's just something to kind of ponder.

I agree with you. At the end of the day, You know, we're going to the Lord willing to find out. And yeah, I pray that we do get to see another brother in. in heaven, but it's just the statement itself became really controversial and Yeah. I say, hey, you know, at the end of the day, only God knows.

But if you're in such a state to where you would make a statement like that, I guess you can make an argument that. Hey, it's possible he he maybe he did have a mustard seed worth of faith just to even say it because he could have Tried to go to Islam or the, you know, the Hindus or something, but right. you know, just something to contemplate. And you're you're probably one of the only guys in the world that would actually discuss this reasonably.

So Yeah. It's just something we can't answer. But here's, I'm going to throw something else into the mix a little bit: the story of the unrighteous steward. This is the guy who lied to find favor with the people that he represented from his boss. He says, How much do you owe $100?

Write it for $50. How much do you owe you oh, $50, write it for $25? This kind of thing. You remember the story in Luke 16. And the right unrighteous steward I mean the landowner praised him for that.

But what's interesting is that Jesus says, Make friends by way of mammon in order to enter into eternal dwellings. Jesus was saying, he invented this parable. He says, This is how serious this is, even though this guy's motives weren't pure. He took care of himself, and that's smart.

So that makes me wonder. Scott Adams, I'm not judging his heart, I don't know, but even if his motives weren't pure, he just didn't want to go to hell. That's a good enough reason. That's a good enough reason out of Luke sixteen. And that's good enough.

I don't want to go to hell, and it's a good reason. Oh, no, you're supposed to want to be with Jesus, but. I don't want to go to hell. And I want to be with Jesus.

Okay. And so it's both are legitimate reasons to come to faith. And then how much is it is a faith? And You never know what happens in the last minutes of one's death. It just That's right.

We'll get serious.

Well, real quick follow-up to that now. Would this be kind of similar to a thief on the cross. situation because You buy all the cows He pretty much did the same thing, except we don't know all the statements that were made, but He you know, in essence, he's pretty much saying, take me with you. And didn't say Justin Kayser, but he He had enough mustard seed worth if they just ask, because you're already dying, then why not? And he, you know, when he tells him, hey, you'll be with me today.

I I could just assume something was going on in that interaction that we're not pretty to, but Yeah, the same thing could happen in Scott Adams' case as well. Could have. We can't judge the sincerity of his heart with the statements read. And that's the thing. But We'll just leave it up to God.

He's the one who'll know. Let's hope that in the last minute or two or three before he perish, that he really did trust in Christ or however it works. You know, that in that one or two minutes, can you do that? You know, if he really did, well, let's hope we meet him in heaven. And if we don't, then we'll know that, oh no, he never really did trust in even that mustard seed faith level.

So, okay.

Okay. Yeah, I think God allows these situations at times to just kind of.

Well, for me, it just boggles my mind. And it's hilarious because. It gets you wondering and it makes you want to uh Getting to the pages of scripture.

So Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a fascinating thing. It is excuse me. It is a fascinating thing. It's a hard thing sometimes to figure out, but yep.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. All right, Matt, I appreciate you. Great discussion, as usual, and Lord Will, and we'll.

Well, I'm actually traveling out of the country, so we'll talk when that guy says. All right, buddy. Have a good time wherever you're going. All right, men. Yes.

God bless you now. Bye-bye.

Okay. Okay. God bless Mike. Let's see, so he's traveling out of the country. Maybe he's going to a Democrat-held area, you know, 'cause they're They're from a different planet.

Uh let's get to um Let's go to Alberto, then we'll get to Daniel. Alberto, welcome. You're on the air, buddy. We got a well, good evening, Maslick. How are you doing today, sir?

Okay, doing all right by God's grace.

So, before the break, what do you got?

Okay. Yeah, it was like Christians persecute other Christians.

So sh what about when Trump bombed the terrorists against the Nigerian crisis ship? We have an obligation to protect the innocent. How that's worked out in our government is another thing. And so I don't have personally have a problem logistically or biblically that he goes in and wipes out bad guys. It's okay.

Hey, buddy, we gotta go. There's a break. All right, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. Let's get on with Daniel from Ohio. Daniel, welcome. You're on the air, buddy.

Hey, how's it going, Matt? It's going. It's going, man. What do you got?

So I wanted to ask you a question about something I've heard you say before regarding prayers to Mary and all that stuff. It seems to me that you think it's a property only God could have and it's something close to omniscience, is that right? Close to, yeah, it's functional goddess stuff, yeah.

Okay. In my mind, when I think of omniscience, I just think of the universe and I think of like all the atoms in it and everything bouncing back and forth and everybody's thoughts there ever were and their intentions, past, present and future. And I just think God knows all that. He's sustaining everything in existence at every moment. And I just think how is a finite amount of prayers even if The idea that Mary hears them simultaneously, or whether she experiences it successively, whatever the case is.

How is that anywhere near the idea of omniscience, you know, to know those things? You could put them on a hard drive. Yeah, it's a lot of things, it's in different languages, but I want to add something else to that before I finish, I guess.

Well, hold on, hold on. Hold on, you're saying stuff. You're saying stuff, but are you a Catholic? I am indeed, yeah.

Okay. Do you pray to Mary? I do, yeah. Can she hear millions of prayers from all over the world, spoken in thought different languages, comprehend their intentions, know their history, know the context, and apply God's uh will to all of them simultaneously? Are you there?

I'm here, yeah. Can she do that? Um I don't see why not if God permits it. Oh, I guess it's also okay that I can have Venus in my back pocket if God wants it, right? Is that possible?

If God wants it.

Well, Matt, think about this first. No, no, no, no. Think about logic. No, no, really. No, no, no, really, really.

Think. Listen, if God wants it, if God wants it, can He do it? I'm using what you said. If God wants it, can He do it?

Now, there's a problem here. You know why? It's a problem. Because by definition, Venus can't fit in a back pocket. By definition, it's a planet in an orbit.

By definition, it's what it is. Hold on. Why don't you hold on a sec? Hold on. I'm trying to show you the logic.

If you don't stop, I'm going to cut you off. You don't stop, I'll cut you off. I know you will.

Okay. He was on hold. This is pretty typical, folks, of how people can't think. and don't want to think and don't want to be challenged.

Now I use this analogy. Can God, if He wants, just put Venus in my back pocket? How could He, since it by definition has certain mass and size and location?

Now, what they're saying is, well, he can take it out of that location, condense it down.

Well, then would it be Venus anymore? This is simple logic, but I'll tell you: the people with a cult mind can't think critically and can't think logically.

So let's just say, now what they're saying is Mary can now do all these things if God wants.

Well, the question is. Is it what God wants? And can God even do that with a creature who, by definition, can't participate in those things? That's the question I want to ask, but you'll notice the guy doesn't want to answer. Are you still there?

I am there, Matt.

Okay, so I'm polite to off again. Just be polite, though. Yes, Matt, I was not rude to you. Yes, you were.

Okay, don't look. Don't tell me you weren't being rude when you were being rude. I was asking you not to interrupt. Let me finish. And you kept doing it.

Don't tell me that's not being rude. That's being rude.

Okay? Let's try it again. Do you agree that people that are going to go to heaven, the elect, the people that will be saved, will see God face to face in heaven? Not the Father. He dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen or can see.

1 Timothy 6:16.

So will we see God in any capacity? See him as he is. When you vagarize things, and any capacity can mean all kinds of things, then we have a problem trying to answer the. I mean that God is totally transcendent of nature, right? It's really nice to finish my statements.

I like that. Yeah, it's nice without being interrupted. God is totally transcendent of the world, right? Yet He created it and He sustains it at every moment, right? Yeah.

Okay. Now he's something far beyond anything we can really even comprehend, yet, he nevertheless. he's known through nature. We know that he's like the things that he creates. Because he's the one that creates and sustains them, right?

No, he's not like the things he creates. He's completely different than the things he creates.

Okay, so can we know from nature that God exists, as St. Paul says? Yeah. Can you am I allowed to answer questions on my own show when I'm asked a question? What do you think?

Is it okay with you? Is it okay? Is it a matter?

Okay, thank you. Yeah, Romans 1:18 through 22 actually talks about how.

Okay, what's your next thing we want to ask?

Okay. The question I have is if creatures that through God's grace are able to have this type of communion with this transcendent God in heaven. That's far beyond his nature. You say he's so far beyond his creation, obviously, right? It's something that is a power that You can't even comprehend that a creature, how a creature could do that.

Nevertheless, Scripture tells us that we will in heaven.

So, I don't really see how hearing a finite amount of prayers is really. Anything Can't amount or even close to the omniscience. It just doesn't make sense to me.

So, yeah, a lot of things don't make sense to you. You have to be regenerate and have the mind of God to do this.

Now, let me ask you, do you believe that Mary can hear like let's just say thirty-four million prayers simultaneously, all at the same time, in different languages, spoken and thought, comprehending them all? Equally? Do you believe a creature can know a transcendent God? I asked you a question. I asked you a question.

I know. Yes, I do believe that, and I think it's nowhere near what people say about it.

So then, let me ask you a question. Why is it Jesus says, come to me and not Mary?

Well, I don't know. I mean, I think we are going through to God through the saints. Jesus says, come to me. He didn't say go to anybody else. He says, come to me.

So, why are you not obeying your God?

Okay, look, we're done with you.

Okay? We're just done. The reason we're done, he keeps interrupting, and I just dropped him.

So, folks, I've had these kind of conversations before.

Now, if he wants to call back, that's fine. But he needs to agree to not constantly interrupt. He's behaving like just, well, you know, a bad interlocutor. And I don't want to get that going because we'll just get into arguments and yelling, and I want to do that.

So I've warned him several times about let me finish and let me answer questions. And he says he'll do it, then he doesn't do it.

So he's bearing false witness against himself. He's not keeping his word. He's just getting out of control. I'm not going to have that happen.

So look, this is the logical problem. It's a category error. I'm trying to deal with this with the Catholics, with the East Orthodox, but they just don't want to see. Because they're idolaters. And the reason is because they give attributes to Mary that belong to God alone.

Only God is said in Scripture to be able to dwell in the hearts and have the access to the hearts and minds of people, as Mary would have to do. But some Catholics and Eastern Orthodox will say, No, God conveys all of the prayers. to her. What the stinkin' heck I think that's found in the book, the biblical book, called Second Hysterectomy. Because it's just ridiculous.

Okay? So there are what's called essential and accidental properties in things. an essential property of a human being. is limited. A human being, by definition of what we see, is only one place at one time.

Even Jesus, as a human being, could only be at one place at a time. This is by definition, it's called an essential property of humanity. Omniscience is an essential property of God, not of man. If Mary is a human being, her essence is by necessity finite. For a finite being to possess an infinite capacity, or close to, well we could say close to to hear a uh an infinite like capacity of healing millions of prayers would require her to take the to absorb and or participate at least partially in the essential attributes of God himself.

Having superabundant knowledge of thirty-four million people all the time. different languages spoken. thought with intention. and context, and know how to answer them. And know God's will for each one, and be able to direct the angels to answer, all instantaneously come.

constantly, all the time. That's what this is saying. This is goddesshood. If the creature possesses even partially the essential attributes of God, The distinction between creator and creator, that's going to be creature and God, collapses.

Now what they're functionally doing is saying that she is like a goddess. This is a problem it's logically impossible. We have philosophically and logically the issue of a finite nature. And the only way we can recognize a finite nature is through what's called the accidentals. Accidentals are things like how tall a person is.

how heavy a person is. They can vary between individuals. And those can change without the essence of something being changed.

Now, if someone is essentially, essence, a human being on earth, and they cannot hear all these prayers. Simultaneous, you know, 34 million all at the same time. And then the statement is: well, when they get to heaven, then they can. If God wants him to, that means that God would have this change their essential nature. If the n essential nature's changed, they're no longer what they were.

Essential nature The essential properties of something is necessary to what the something is. If the nature of something changes, the properties change, and the essential nature changes as well. It's no longer what it is. has to do with continuity, logic, and issues. Even a glorified human being remains human.

human mind by definition is localized under a set consciousness that is not capable of understanding cabillions all at the same time. Not only this with the number, but with all the attributions and fragmented requirements that associate with it.

So what they're doing is they are What the EO and the RC are doing what they are doing. is giving attributes to God. From God, excuse me. To the created thing and committing idolatry. They're assigning certain values that belong to the essential properties of God.

ability to indwell us. People can't do that. His ability to know all things and the intentions of our hearts, we can't do that. And they're then saying, Mary can do it.

Well, then that means they're moving and giving some of the essential attributes of God to her. And that's by definition idolatry. The way to get out of this is what they'll say is: well, she's not participating in the essential properties, but he's enabling her to hear them all the same time, which is just saying the same thing a different way. Or what they'll say is, well, he can give her all these packaged prayers, deliver them to her.

Well, that begs the question: why do that if he's God? I mean, can you imagine this? God is now saying, okay, excuse me. I got Mary down here, and Joseph, and Bob, and Frank, and all the other ones out there. And I need to give all of these prayers simultaneously to millions of people.

so they can all hear millions of prayers simultaneously. all at the same time.

So if we were to hypothetically say 34 million people.

Okay. I'm going to do this really quickly. 34 million people. Or let's say, how many people can do this? How many saints are there in heaven that can do this?

Let's just say. There's 10,000 believers because they're the Catholics, and you can pray to your Aunt Mary and your Uncle Martha.

Okay, so 34 million times, let's say 10,000 of these people who could do this. How many events is that happening? At the same time, How many is that?

Well, mathematically speaking, it's 34 million times 10,000, which is 3.4 times 10 to the 11th, or 340 billion. It's just dumb. It's just dumb. But that's what happens when you're an idolater. Because heresy breeds heresy.

And you just get worse and worse. And you fall further and further into the pit of darkness. There's the music. I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you by His grace on the air tomorrow.

Lord Dwelling, we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, everyone. God bless you. Five. Yeah.

Another program powered by the Truth Network.