Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carn.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want, you can give me a call. All I have to do is dial 8772. 072276 And Lots of stuff.

All right, so I want to hear from you. Give me a call, and uh you can also email me. That's easy to do as well. Just send an email to info at carm.org. Info at carm.org.

Put the subject line, rate, or comment. or radio question and we can get to you. All right, we have nobody waiting right now. And um So, I had an interesting conversation last night. As I let people know on the radio, I frequently go to chat rooms.

And um Interesting. I fre frequently go to chat rooms and uh I I opened them up and and people have been telling me that I'm very patient. Uh For the most part, I am very patient. That's just a side note. And I went into this, I opened up a live page.

in uh tick tock uh Last night was about two hours there. I do about. An hour. Hour and a half average. a night, just going in, answering questions, having dialogues.

And um You already talked about the obstreperous Mormon from yesterday. or the day before. But uh we had a really interesting conversation with a guy from Eastern Orthodoxy. And So he was challenging me at first at a, you know, that. I get it.

And uh I didn't you know, I didn't get mad at him or anything. We just started talking and I told him I was reformed and That's when uh He made a derogatory comment about: well, no one do you have all these problems, you don't understand this or that. And I said, Well, maybe, you know, maybe I I do or don't. I said, Can I then ask you questions out of Scripture? about uh the various things that deal with um You know, with the issue of Reformed theology and whether or not it's in the Bible.

And uh He said, sure, you know, it's a challenge. And so what I did was And it was really interesting what happened. What I did was, I went to, I started quoting the verses, 1 John 3:4. Sin is lawlessness. I said, Do you believe that sin is breaking the law of God?

He said, Well, yes. This is okay. Is sin illegal debt and uh you know I showed where Jesus said, Our Father who art in heaven. Forgive us our debts, forgive us our sins. he relates debt and sin and he would pause, he goes, Huh.

He goes, Okay, yeah, he did. I said, Okay. And um You know, I ended up at Colossians 2.14 where he canceled the sin debt. You know, the certificate of debt. And I said, What is that certificate of debt?

And he says, the sin debt. And I said, When's it canceled? And he paused and he looked at the text. And you could tell he was starting to think. And you know, he says we'll have the cross.

And I said, okay.

So It's not dependent on What you do is it. Because what I'd already done was read some quotes from Docithias. Article 3 and Article 13. or uh number tw uh three and thirteen are the the uh Confession of Dosethius. Which I might read.

I'll probably read them, I think I will. And we got discussing the issue of what salvation is according to the scriptures.

Now I'll tell you what happened, but I'm gonna It isn't. regress a little bit and and mention that um That he and other EO and RC, you know, Roman Catholics, they will say. That their church is a true church. Their church gives us the Bible. Their church has the authority.

Their church has tradition. Their church has. Councils and stuff like that. And I said this point. I said, Alright, let's say that that's true.

Can any of your church councils or your church traditions contradict whatever God's already revealed in the Bible? Candy positive.

Well, no. It says, okay. Then let's go to the Bible. circumvented all of that stuff. Right to the Bible, and that's where I was showing him the things.

And um This conversation went on for a while. And I you know, I tried to be patient and I was. And Then he stopped being competitive. And we're getting into the issue of what salvation is. got into the issue of regeneration, of the things that God.

talks to uh talks about. In scripture. And He started crying. A little bit. He said he was getting emotional.

This is after a half hour. And he He started singing what the Word of God said. And he was realizing That the Eastern Orthodox Church was not being consistent. Scripture. And it was really interesting.

You know, and we just kept talking. We talked for about an hour and a half. And a lot of people were in the room listening. forty, fifty people listening. Which was good.

Always want more. And He had a, you know, he had started having a humble attitude before the Lord. We got talking about sin. and forgiveness. And I kept pointing him to Jesus.

It says, go to Jesus. And I said, um, would you say that your church Uh Is the way to God. Your church is a true church. He says, Yes, it is. I said.

So it's it's that's how you get to God is through your church. That's the best way, right? He goes, Yes. And it contains the truth from God, yes, right? And so you can't get to really God without your church, all the truth and the ultimate stuff, right?

He says, that's right. I said So your church is now the way, the truth. in the life, isn't it? Because you get it you get life through your church. There you go, Cal.

I said that would uh Jesus said about himself, why is your church replacing Jesus? And I'm gonna tell you. It was quite a conversation. And it's true because both the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox churches, what they do is their church is the way, the truth, the life, but you can't come to God but through their church. That's official teachings.

and I started pointing him more and more to Christ. And we got into the issue of um the priesthood. And I showed him priesthood issues and He didn't know what to do. talked about the failure of the Eucharistic doctrine. Biblically and logically.

I've gone through this many times here in the air and with others. And um And it was just, you know, then my wife came in, it was getting late, and it was time for me to go, and I ended up going. He was very grateful for our conversation. And um Oh, and one more thing. He said He goes, wait a minute.

Because he brought up Colossians 1:20, that God reconciles all things to himself. And I said, Well, does that mean then the demonic realm as well? Because what does all things mean? You have to restrict it. But what does it mean?

You have to interpret it. And he goes, wait a minute. Are you the guy who debated Sam Shimone on that? I said, yeah. He goes, dude, man.

He goes, he goes, I can't believe it's you. It's so And so we had this this stuff because, you know, He goes, wow, a lot of people have commented about that occurrence in that debate. that Sam didn't know what to do. and made a mistake and he did, he made a big mistake, a logic error. But anyway, no that's neither here nor there.

And it was a really good conversation last night. And I've always I usually succeed Ho ho ho. Uh usually, not always. succeed at being polite and gentle throughout a conversation.

However, I have told the people, I said, when a Muslim comes in, If they get demanding, I'm going to meet them with their demands. I'm going to say, no, you can't talk like that. I'm not going to let them do it because they always want to dominate. They don't listen. They're very, in my opinion, the ones that I've encountered are exceedingly arrogant, very prideful.

They can't even realize how prideful they are because they have the truth and the Bible's all wrong, just whatever. And they come off with that attitude. They won't even have a discussion, generally speaking.

So, not always though, but a lot of them Muslims are quite polite, but most of them are by definition are just not.

So anyway, this is the conversation I had last night. And It's not a big deal. I mean, I don't have any callers coming in right now.

So, what I thought I would do is just deal with the issue of what the Cath the Eastern Orthodox Church says. And I'm going to go to the issue of salvation. and read you some of their quotes, okay?

So this is from Dosithius. From 1672. This is a an official Um the official uh document. From the East Orthodox Church. Check out what it says.

This is Decree 3. For thus Scripture would be opposed to itself. since it promises the believer. through a believer's salvation. works.

It promises salvation through works. Uh Confession 13, the same uh conf I mean uh confession des Ithius. Decree 13, we believe that a man to be not simply justified through faith alone, but through faith which works through love, that is to say, through faith and works. Wow, isn't that interesting? Or, uh Confession of Mogilla, uh, part one, question one hundred one.

if we persevere with constancy in faith and good works, we shall finally become partakers of salvation. Faith in good works.

Alright. And um So Let's see, what are some other ones? This is Docithius Decree 9. We believe that no one can be saved without faith. By faith, we mean the right notion that is.

That is in us concerning God and divine things, which, working by love, that is to say, by the divine commandments, justifies us with Christ. love with the Divine Commandments, justifies us.

So You see, what I'm trying to say is The East Orthodox Church is a false church. It teaches the false gospel. It's just simple. And I talked about Mormonism two days ago when I was with this other guy. I talked about it yesterday.

He went over 1 Timothy 6:13 through. Uh sixteen, seventeen. And showed how it proves that Joseph Smith lied about. Mm-hmm. Um sing by the Father.

In fact, I'm just reminded about something here. That Jesus said, And uh I'm going to go to Matthew 24. I'll make you twenty-four, okay. And uh We've got a guy Colin Jacob. Hold on, Jacob.

You get to you after the break because we've got a break in about a minute and a half. I'm gonna finish up with Matthew 24 here. Jesus was talking to the disciples and they asked him, What is the sign of your coming at the end of the age? And he Jesus says something interesting. He says, Many will say, I am the Christ.

There'll be wars and rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes. They'll deliver you to tribulation. They'll kill you. You'll be hated by all nations. Many will fall away.

In verse 11, many false prophets will arise. It will deceive many.

Now it doesn't say and there will be false councils and false traditions. But the idea here is that false prophets will arise and mislead many, lawlessness will increase. He who endures the thirst at the end shall be saved. That's dealing with that tribulation period. And So as I was going through this stuff, Um Looking through, see if we got my letter.

more notes in there. Um The signs of the end times are really important because. in them. In them, what we have to understand is there's going to be a great apostasy. And I brought this up, and I was reading through 2 Thessalonians 2, that the Eastern Orthodoxy claims to be the true church.

And he says, That's correct. And I said, Well, 2 Thessalonians 2 says that There's going to be a great apostasy. Does that not mean your church has to go be apostate? And you hear the crickets just going, you know. Because so well, if they're the true church, it's got to go apostate, doesn't it?

This is what the Word of God says. The word of God is powerful. You're going to use it. You gotta know it.

Alright, there's the music. We'll be right back after these messages, and we'll get to Jacob. from Virginia right after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. All you got to do? Is dial eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

I want to hear from you. Give me a call. All right, let's get to Jacob from Virginia. Jacob, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Mr. Slick, how are you doing? Doing all right by God's grace, man. Hanging in there. Hanging in there.

What do you got? Can you hear me? Is the background noise messing with you? No, I don't hear any background noise. If I hear it's not that good, sometimes it's just a little bit of a sound.

Okay. All right.

So the other day you said something about Muhammad. Um Maybe not existing. Right. Uh-huh. There's some problems.

There's some uh I'm starting to study it more. Um Uh Yeah.

Okay. Okay, um I've been I think I've been telling my kids the wrong thing. I thought Ishmael I mean, I thought uh Mohammed came from Asia Maya. That's the theory. That's just the theory, but we don't know for sure.

Um I forgot the name of the guy who I first heard this from. He did a fantastic job. Uh, Jay Smith, Dr. Jay Smith, I think it is. I heard him in person present this information last year when I was at a conference at uh.

and I'm California. working with uh Ministry to Muslims, George Saig's ministry. And he was there and he presented this information, and it was just, I was like, oh my goodness.

Now, the first time I hear something like this. I have to really think about it, you know, that's okay. And there and I listened to him present something else on a on a on a um on a video and Yeah, to um It was very interesting.

So, I'm going to do more research. But there's a growing. There's growing problems. That's what I can say. Is the earliest Islamic biographies written well over a century after Muhammad?

and there's nothing really contemporary. And Contemporary time don't have coins, don't have uh mentions of him. Stuff like this. They didn't mention them like, what, was it two or I want to say two to six hundred years? I know that's a big gap, but it was one of them, right?

Right, two to six hundred years is when the support starts coming in there. for him. Yeah. Yeah. So I I was w in an apologetics class And um The guy is very knowledgeable.

And it's created an awesome thing. within churches. But anyway, um He likes talking. Yeah, yeah. you know, um, the Cala you know, the Christian people have to uh meet the caliphates and stop them.

That's kind of how the Christian Crusader Right. not came along, but they met him Head on. when he was doing all that stuff, um What milk? Yeah, I mean I always thought he was real, you know. Yeah, I'm not saying is or isn't right now.

I'm just saying that. That this is very interesting. And if I can provide a list of documents, you know, documentation, let's just say that the earliest mention of Muhammad that can be discovered. Is let's just say an extant manuscript or whatever, it's 150 years after he was born, allegedly. That's interesting.

Because we have the gospel documents which are from the first century by the eyewitnesses of Christ. But a hundred and fifty years later.

So what the what Muslims do, one of their attacks on the Bible is they want to say, well, you can't trust the b the eyewitnesses because they don't know who wrote it and it was written 100, 200, 300 years later.

Well, that's going to bite them now. Because now the evidence is looking like it applies to their own so-called prophet. No, and so I'm going to be using this. I mean, I think it's the devil. I mean, we all know it's the the most one I think.

Brotherhood or whatever you want to call it, cult. Oh, it's from the devil, obviously. Because it's Scripture, you know, Ishmael was promised. People are designed. Yeah.

Well Correct. Yes, uh now here's the thing. I mean not like not like not like uh Isaac.

Now, there's a 13-year gap between Ishmael and Isaac. 13 in the Bible is a number of sin. In Hebrew and Greek, the letters are also numbers.

So when you're writing about a topic or writing words, you're also writing a set of numbers.

Now I haven't been able to verify this, but I've seen websites that talk about it and I've seen them add things up. I can just trust that they've done it right. But uh like Pericopes dealing with Satan in the Old Testament. When you have that start, a pricope is a section of scripture dealing with Satan in the Old Testament. that when you add up all the letters they're they're exactly divisible by thirteen.

Repeatedly. Also, a lot of people don't know this, but Saturday. Is the Sabbath for the Jews And the fourteenth of Nisan. Is when the angel of death came over uh Egypt.

Now that meant on the 14th of Nisan which most probably was Friday the thirteenth for Egypt. Because in Egypt No, no, no, no. Nope. Up this way.

Okay, okay, I got it. I'm airhead. I'm sorry.

Alright, so when was it back in Egypt? When the Jews were in Egypt, came over. On the 14th of Nisan.

Now, the day for the Jew changes when the sun sets. Then you have the new day.

So let's just say it's set at six o'clock. Let's just use it as a number. In Egypt at that time, I don't know what time it really did. Let's just say 6 p.m.

Well, the day didn't shift for Egypt until you know midnight. Whatever that was for them, how they worked it. That was. Uh their their uh their f their day.

So It was the 14th of Nisan, that's from sundown, and the angel of death came over. Shortly after sundown, in the darkness, it went through, and it was the 13th for Egypt, and it was a Friday. And it was the Judgment Day.

So some people think that Friday the thirteenth comes way back down to Egypt. That's why it's an unlucky day. Anyway, it's just not a big deal. The reason I bring this up is because Ishmael was born 13 years before Isaac, and Isaac is said to be Abraham's only begotten son, because God calls him his only begotten son, even though. Ishmael was his legitimate son.

So yeah, didn't he promise it to Sarah though, or did he promise to Abraham? He promised that Abraham he would have a son. Sarah waited and she became impatient, and she gave the handmaiden Hagar to Abraham.

So in the Jewish state. He said through Abraham and Sarah, though, correct. Yes, I I believe so. But in the Jewish Yes, but you see, you gotta understand the Jewish understanding. A seed, you could take a seed out of a bag.

You know, seeds for fig trees, and you can put it anywhere in the land and water it, and basically it'll grow.

Now, you want good land and stuff, of course, but. The seed was the important thing, not as much as the location. The man's seed. was thought of similarly.

So when Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham. then it was just simply a uh his seed would be there, but would be her child. But it would be Sarah's child. because she's the one married to him. she and Hagar would just be the place where the seed was grown.

This is the mentality. This is how it was back then.

So anyway. Just trivia. And so, but the difference between them is 13 years because a decree. Of of God for Isaac, was on a certain day but Thirteen years had passed. And so that's the number of sin.

It was it was uh sinful. for what Sarah did. Yeah. Makes sense. I mean You know, they wrote about it, Isaac, immediately, and they waited thirteen years to write about Yeah.

Let us stop.

Alright, buddy. Hey, there's a break. We gotta go.

Okay, men? I got one other question about the sticks.

Okay, then hold on. Hold on, hold on. We got a break. We got a break. Hold on after the break, okay?

Alright, hey folks, we read that Capitalist Messages with Jacob and then Mike from Illinois. Be right back, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. All you have to do is dial 877-207. Two two seven six. Let's get back on with uh Jacob from Virginia.

Jacob, welcome. You're back on.

Okay, thank you, Matt. Hey, do you have uh anybody waiting? Yes, we got somebody waiting.

So what do you got? What's up? I'll hurry up then.

So, I believe one time you might have told me that. The anti-crisis name would be six hundred sixty six.

Well, what that means is, most probably, is that when you write his name in Greek. and or Hebrew. Since Hebrew and Greek letters are also numbers, that the total of his name will be 666.

So like the for example, the word for fish Has a mathematical value of 1224, and Yesuchristos, or Jesus, I think it is, is 888. There's lots of interesting things like that in the Bible, but okay? I wonder what artificial intelligence Well, no, no, no. It doesn't work like that. It's the original words that are actually in the Bible.

I want to learn more about that. Yeah. Yeah, you can't take artificial intelligence and put it into uh ancient Greek term because it's not used. artificial intelligence is going to have a big Play with Antichrist and how he takes his wound and stuff. Could, yeah.

Yeah, it could. Uh yep.

Alright, I'll call back tomorrow. I know you got people waiting.

Alright, brother. God bless. Thanks a lot, man. Thanks, sir.

Okay. All right, good sorry. Talk to you later. Perfect. Yep.

All right.

Hey, folks, if you want to give me a call, the number is easy: 877-207-2276. Let's get to Mike from Illinois. Mike, welcome. You're on the air. Matt, how you doing?

Mike the Realtor here, Chicago. been a long time student of yours for Probably as long as I've been married 15 years, I've needed it. Wow. Good.

Okay, good, man. It just means you're good. It means you're smart. It means you're really smart. Yeah.

I I I hopefully hopefully I'm uh Getting close as you soon, soon, someday, someday.

Well, I don't know, man, because you probably would have passed me. I've got a lot to learn. No, man. We blessed over here with your ministry and Carmen and a lot of. lot of brothers here in the Chicagoland area, uh love the Lord and uh reformed and You've been part of our walk, and you've been part of our just leading us in just solid.

Sounds awesome.

So appreciate you, and that's why I called them. Invite me out. Thank you for that. Invite me out, let's do a little seminar, let's do a little a meet and greet. Let's do it.

Yeah. That was going to be my wrap-up at the end, so you beat me to it, but we're going to touch on it afterwards. Um question.

So I've been reformed for many years since I've been calling you, so many years, but As a local realtor, I'm also a youth mentor. I'm in the community here in Um taking the youth out, a lot of fatherless uh in in certain neighborhoods. We're big with giving back, right? And I met another realtor who's also an entrepreneur and That, hey, we do some similar things out of our office. I mean, out of our church.

And I was like, okay, great. church you from? Of course he tells me the church and then I'm like okay I don't know much of it, so just like you taught us, right, research, research, research.

So I go on a website and learn a little bit about it. But here's my question, I guess. They they come from here, I'll just tell you right now I had it pulled up. It's uh Uh B Lutheran Church of Missouri Senod. Don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but you did it right.

That's the LCMS. Lutheranism. Yeah, where does the Lutheranism break off? Where does it? Because I know a lot of their stuff was solid, and then you hear things with, well, watch it with Lutheranism.

It can be a little wacky. And so I guess I'm like, you know what? Let me call. I went on carm.org. I didn't really find much on Lutheranism.

So I figured, let me give it a shot. Call you up. Say hello and say thank you and then ask the questions. All right, well, coincidentally, I got a bachelor's degree from a Lutheran Missouri Synod College.

Okay. Really? Yes, I did.

Okay. And so I called the perfect person. I don't know about that, but. And so when I went there, I did not want to go really there, but let's just say the Lord orchestrated certain things. It's quite a story, actually, how I ended up there.

It's really a good story. Maybe I'll tell it just to do it over the air. Yeah. But um So I had the privilege of taking the theology courses under Dr. Rod Rosenblatt.

He's since passed away. And Rod was a very interesting guy.

So there were a few few of us we called ourselves Rod de Eitz, and we would just take whatever class he taught. Because he was more concerned in the dialogue teaching academics than just simply getting an A on a test. And we he I remember once he closed the door And on campus, there he closed the door in a class. He pulled up a seat and turned it around and sat on it. He goes, Now let's just talk.

And I loved it when he would do that because it wasn't going to be an exam, it was putting everything we're learning together. And Rod is the one who said, He goes, Matt, you've been here for a couple, three years now, and you need to go to a Presbyterian seminary. He he they w they offered me a free Tuition and everything to a Lutheran seminary, but I wouldn't go because I didn't agree with some of their doctors. We'll get into that. But I'm just saying that at that college, it was in Irvine, California, Concordia University, back in the day, it was called Christ College Irvine.

And it was a good idea. Yeah. Well, there you go. And my wife and I got married on that campus. And so I'm very familiar with it, and I learned a lot.

I'm going to say the good stuff first. I learned a great deal. I was very, very blessed. Rod had a profound influence on me theologically. He's the one who pushed me towards reform theology without knowing it, without intending it, but he didn't care.

Because he was more concerned with the fidelity of Scripture and our understanding of scripture.

So I'm giving a really positive thumbs up.

Okay. Having said all of that, There were some issues. Like at that place, at that college, they wouldn't let non-Lutherans take communion. And I went and talked to the dean. whose last name was Dean.

So he called him Dean Dean. And Yeah, it was great. And in the office up there, in the second story, there was an owl nest outside the building. All this is coming back to me. At any rate, so.

So uh We I talked to him, I said, Wait a minute, why is it that you won't let uh Christians Just because I'm not Lutheran. Is there anything in the Bible that says you can't Uh you can't That Lutherans only take communion? Doesn't it say all those who confess Christ and believe in Christ? And he said, That's a good point. And then they removed that requirement.

And so they were, it's a good school. I learned a lot there.

However, They could teach you could lose your salvation, which I don't agree with. They tea taught that there's this issue of the sacraments, which are a little bit too Catholic for my view. And that they are means of grace that actually works in you. They would baptize infants.

Now, I believe in infant baptism, but not for salvation. I just simply believe it's a covenant sign. That's all. You baby dedication, you should have a covenant sign. And I believe the consistency.

This is my position.

So, you're a good disciple.

So, mine too. There you go. And if people disagree, that's okay. It doesn't bother me. And so that was the attitude Rod had.

And I really love that attitude. He goes, well, okay. You got a good reason for that? And we, you know, if we disagreed, we argued, well, he gave us A's because that's what he wanted. It was good stuff.

I really learned it was a great time there. Anyway.

So it's a little bit too close to the sacraments, or a little bit too close to the Lutheran view, I mean, to the Catholic view, where there are means of grace, and that by the doing of them, you are made more right with him through that. And I go, I cannot agree to that. I will not agree with that. And so it was stuff like that. that stopped me from purs pursuing uh Lutheranism.

And I just said nope. can't do it and wouldn't do it. The LCMS Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is good.

However, Be wary about their doctrine of you can lose your salvation. Even though they said it was very hard, their sacramental system, which seems a little bit too Catholic-ish, but they have a twist in that you actually get saved by it and some other stuff. And I'm going, Rod, that's not biblical. He goes, Well, we have these we got talking.

So Okay. And I guess that's where my question was, whereas Like where does that draw the line where you hear Okay, they're solid. They believe in, you know. predestination, you know, election and whatnot. Yeah, but I I didn't know that they taught that you can actually lose your salvation.

So that was interesting. But that it's not easy. But it wasn't easy to do it. You had to openly reject Okay, a lot. And uh but they taught me and I'm going to tell you this okay before the break here.

My wife, if I got on the radio, would remember this. I was in college, we were married at that time. when I came home just blown away by the doctrine of grace. And it was because of Rod's teaching through the scriptures that I learned. How magnificent.

Magnificent. the grace of God. Wise. And it really had a profound effect on me. I was just talking about it for days.

And my wife was at one point rolling her eyes. Are you going to get over this? Not that she's being flippant about Grace, but you know. And so she still remembers that because it had a profound effect on me because I learned it at the Lutheran College.

So I had a good experience there. But you men. For the reasons there, I think there's issues.

Okay? All right.

Matt, thank you so much. How do you treat a sciatica? I'm going through it right now. It's killing me, brother. Oh man, hey, let's talk.

Stay on because I want to ask you. You said about getting out there. Because I don't know if you can hang on or not. Hold on, buddy, we've got a break. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

We have nobody waiting really, unless Mike's still there. Give me a call. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on and see if Mike's still hanging. Are you still there, buddy? Yes, sir, still here, guys. Thank you.

All right, man.

Okay, so I think that was it. I don't know. Anything else or lunch? Yeah, I think uh uh just because we I'm about to get to know them, and they're in my community. And I pass that church often, right?

And I see Lutheran, but. But they're I'm gonna meet with them for coffee and uh And they do this entrepreneurial thing with believers that own companies that are entrepreneurs in the Chicagoland area. And they get together, and they caught my attention right away because I love that, right? And I said, let's all get together. But since you graduated or you were part of that school for quite some time, right, Bringing you in to just make the introduction to Come in and speak there would be awesome considering you.

learned so much from someone uh that was profound in that school, I would be awesome. Yeah, I really did learn a lot and I really am thankful.

However, I'm definitely a Presbyterian. and reformed in five point. And so I reject some of the aspects of Lutheran. But, you know, I mean, they're brothers in Christ, and that's it. Right.

And is that secondary, Matt, like when it comes to those, like, cause for me, like, again, I'm you know, I I've been reformed for for a long time now and Secondary issues when it comes to Lutheranism, what would be those things? Obviously, eternal salvation, right? Eternity, right? Security, right? Yeah.

Faith. the reassurance every time knowing that we belong to him for all eternity. Where do I mean, yeah, like you did say earlier that has to be extremely hard. What other secondary issues that Uh would be uh Question Yeah.

Well, it's the issue of the of the sacraments. Yeah. Yeah, the sacrament. Yeah. They don't hold to what's called transubstantiation, which is unbiblical and illogical.

But they hold to something called the kind of like, it's kind of like the real presence. Where he's there, and I can hear this back up and say, I could never understand exactly what it was they were teaching. I kept asking these questions because I was more inquisitive than most. And uh I knew a lot before I went in there. In fact, Rod actually said I knew more theology going into college than most of their pre-seminary degree.

guys did going out of college. Because I did so many apologetics things.

So I really had a good time. I could ask a lot of detailed questions, and he was very good. But um So I could never get that very well answered. It's all I can really say is I could just never get that. Yeah, that is true to swallow.

I mean, it's it's not even tough. It's it's if it's not in the scriptures, like you said, right, it's it's Something hard to You're going to defend that. It's hard to not. Right. I remember going back to what you said when you.

Uh, learned the doctrines of grace right when I when I was. exposed to it, whatnot, it was just blew my mind, right? It was the same thing going back. Oh man. being uh blown away and bringing it to my wife.

So it was It was like, are you going to get over it? I understand. It was the same. Yeah. Yeah, there's it was beautiful.

So you you were part of that 'cause I actually called you I actually called you. And uh And I was wrestling through Leaving that former church, and me and you talked about it on the radio, on the live. I remember that. Years ago. And did you leave?

I did, yeah, and I could. Wow, 15 years later, I'll tell you whatever happened. And, you know, we'll chop it up. I would love to send you an email and get on a call and. I'd love to have you come in in Chicago.

You know, tell you a little bit what I mean, we were part of a house church here in Chicago. We had, you know, up to nine, we were working on ten, we were doing a lot of. Um a lot of those uh um Those are legacy. um campus things at Moody. Every summer, we would have all the speakers come in.

And I remember one year I tried to get you in and I I went to one of the main elders, and I was like, Matt, let's get Matt in. Let's get Matt in to teach. And one of them was like, Yeah, I think it's too late already. And we're even trying to get John MacArthur. Johnny Mac didn't want to come because I guess the hip hop, we had Le Cray there one year, and that's when Johnny Mac was kind of like.

We want McRae there. But yeah, we go way back, man, Matt. You've been part of our circle. Uh, in Chicago for over 15 years, easily. Like you were one of my first websites that I went to when I.

When I got exposed to reformed theology, sweep me off my feet. Ever since Daniel was a bad, I'm a student. I actually am a student of your. Theology school. I paid for the Yeah.

So I'm grateful for you guys, Manchester Church. Yeah. And I I didn't even know there were any Christians. In Chicago. Let me tell you, it's uh it's crazy right now, the times we're living here, man.

Um we have uh the the lowest Yeah, it's getting worse. But let me tell you, the Lord is doing a lot of things through through brothers and sisters. One one brother was former homosexual and Big time had a restaurant and was flamboyant, was out there and everybody loved him, and he was making big money in his restaurant. And the Lord drew him, slammed him on his feet, opened his eyes, opened up his ears, opened up his heart. And It went from one day to day.

from you know crazy sinner to completely save frequency. over Jesus and that people completely turned on him, his restaurant closed. Today he's leading ministries in front of a Abortion clinics, preaching the gospel. I mean, there's a lot, the Lord is doing so much here, Matt. The thing is that it just gets overshadowed by darkness, man.

That's just the problem. And I have a podcast, and I do a lot of stuff in Chicago as a local realtor, and I get a lot of Chicago. People coming in, and I'd love to have you on it, man, because theology is my passion. Jesus is. You know, number one in our home, and we serve them and we serve our community.

You know problem is that just a lot of people don't They don't know solid teaching. They're just surrounded by a lot of. you know, American theology, unfortunately. Right, I hear you.

Well, yeah, man, it sounds good. I'm glad you're. I love your attitude. You just got a good zeal for the things of God, and I like that. I think it's awesome.

Praise God. When there's men like you guys, like Vaudi Bakam, and men that we've had that we've lost but actually didn't lose because. You know, they're they're going to be they're in a place where we're going to be Some day too, man.

So I'll you know, I I think that Uh, just being raised as a I'm I'm older now at this point, but as just being sharpened by the scriptures and teachers like you guys uh I'm telling you, you guys make a big difference here in Chicago. You may not know it. But let me tell you, you are. You're making a dent in darkness here in the city with solid sound doctrine.

Well Good. Praise God. I don't know, but good. Hallelujah. Praise God.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, He gives the glory. I'll shoot you an email with my link and my information and. And uh you know we'll we'll we'll chop it off up Top it up off the air and love to see if I introduce you to my pastor, and then we'll meet.

the other Lutheran people together and I don't know who they are, I'm meeting them as as we go to and Lord willing, if I can get you out here for a conference, that would be Amazing, man. Finally get to meet you and uh You get to eat some good pizza, man.

Now we're talking.

Okay, now you just made it worthwhile going out there.

Okay, I get it now.

Okay. Absolutely. It would be. Matt, thank you so much. God bless you and your ministry.

I watch you guys as much as I can in the car and at the house.

So, praying for you guys all the time, and I'll shoot you an email, okay? Or I'd better God bless. Bless your guys. Grace and peace. Bye-bye.

You too. God bless. Yeah, I like that. That's awesome stuff. Carmen from Florida.

Carmen, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, how are you? Wow, I didn't know it was this late already. Uh I'm doing fine.

I'm doing fine. What do you got? Okay. Oh, very good. I've got a question about, like, when you get married, if it's a sin to not be married on paper.

Um My wife and I got married Uh I'm not real big in the the handing in the uh the uh marriage license I I feel like Marriage is something that should just be between the husband and the wife, and God, the promise in front of God. But my family's kind of getting on me about turning it in. My Mom said I should obey the laws of the land. And my argument is that it's Not a law. It's you know, I I don't know, so I just wanted to see what you had to say about that.

Well, Jesus said, Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.

So if you're in America, And you're Excuse me, the city you're in. Oh, I got a hiccup, sorry. And the state says that they want a marriage certificate. There's nothing unbiblical about that. And it puts in a legal status.

My wife and I got married. We submitted a marriage certificate. When I do marriages, I tell them. I tell the couple, you need to go get a document from the state. And we'll sign it.

That's not what makes you married, I tell them. That's not what it is. It's just a filing legally because we're to obey the laws of the land. And give this Caesar that which is Caesar's. And unless it votes.

Violates God's law, then it won't do it.

So Yeah, I think it's a good idea to do that.

Okay? Maybe not what you wanted to hear, but. There you go. But is that the law of the land? I believe it is.

Just do some research because. You want to submit with humility to the to the governmental authorities above you. that are over you. And find out if they require a uh a certificate. If they do.

will then just go through and take care of it. If they don't, and it says it's not legally required, well, then you're not obligated to do it. It's up to you.

Okay. Okay. The idea is not to be recalcitrant, but. When I do marriages, I tell people, when I go through the document, and we have a You know, I do premarital counseling and stuff, and I say, here's the area when we go through the ceremony. This is what makes you married.

These this one little area here where you covenant with each other. That's what makes you married. And he said, If a preacher is doing this and you agree, yes, yes, yes, yes, and you give the rings, at that point you're married. If he were to have a heart attack and fall right there and he's done, You're still married. It's not dependent on him saying, I now pronounce you man and wife.

He's just recognizing what is already done in the covenant bound. the covenant bond that's made, that's what that is. But that document certificate is simply a formal recognition by the government. that it has been filed and it has legal standing. And so there you go.

and sometimes people will ask for marriage certificates for various things. When you're buying a house or whatever it is, you have joint this or that.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I don't know. So I would just look at the laws of land. And and submit, okay?

Well, it's not unbiblical.

Okay. Okay. It's not it's not unbiblical.

So it's You're saying it's not Unbiblical.

Okay. Well, what I'm saying is Jesus says, render to Caesar what is Caesar's. and two, God was God.

So he's saying give to the government what the governments do.

Okay, they require taxes, you pay taxes. The driver's license, you d have a driver's license. If they say you need to file a certificate of marriage, Files are deputy of marriage.

Okay. Okay, yeah, I'll look up in my state what the law is, I guess. Yeah. There you go. All right?

Okay. Yeah, okay. Thank you. You're welcome. No problem.

All right, brother.

Okay. Alright, thanks for that door. Oh, you two. Yep, folks, that's right. You know, we are to be in submission, subjection to the governing authorities.

Romans 13 talks about that. Jesus says good to Caesar. What is Caesar's, and what is to God, what belongs to God.

So, just follow through the best you can. Do what's right biblically, legally, and do it. before God. And but you're not obligated. to follow those things the government says to do that are against scripture.

That's That's it. They had a law. You must live together before you get married. We'd say, nope, not doing that. you know Next like that.

Hey folks, there is the music, which means I got to get out of here. May the Lord bless you and by His grace. But back on here tomorrow, Lord Wellen, and we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, everyone. God bless.

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