Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey everybody, welcome. There we go. Welcome to the show. If you want to give me a call, as usual, it's easy. Just dial 87720-72276.

You can give me a call. I want to hear from you. And. If you want to email me, that's also very easy to do. Just direct an email to info at carm.org.

Info at CARM.org. Put the subject line radio comment or radio question, and we can get to we often do on on Fridays and things like that. When we're slow, sometimes we get slow. Hey, there we go. Let's just jump on the air.

Let's get to Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how's it going? It's gone, ma'am.

It's gone.

So what do you got?

Okay.

So this actually isn't for me. I'm calling for someone else who wants to discuss whether the Trinity is true or not. Is he there listening? No, no.

Well, they're probably sleeping right now, but what I want to do they're probably going to email you too. But what I want to do is if God's if God wills it, that we can I can give you their um their scripture and what they say stuff means and what not. And then what I can do is after the show is over, I can send the VOD to them and maybe they can take a look at it.

Okay.

Well, uh go ahead then. Uh what would uh what's give me something. Let me All right, let me let me kind of go and go into a little bit of what I know about their theology and whatnot. Um I don't know too much though, but I n I I knew the plane. Do you know if it's a group or not?

I'm not sure. I was thinking maybe their oneness. But it to be honest, it kind of seemed like lukewarm spirituality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With More of a focus on literalness and not too much context.

So a lot of their thinking I thinking I think is like broken up. But I know that they claim that Jesus Isn't God? but they believe a higher power exists. And only does it dislike predators Products to ten of them. Uh say they aren't super super biblical or religious, so I'm assuming some kind of agnosticism.

Um, but they believe in the teachings of the Bible. They also say that you don't need to worship God, and that if you believe in the Word, then And you believe in then then you also believe in God more or less, something like that. Yeah, it'd be interesting to find out some information to see if it's a new cult. I'm working on, or I think I just released an article, let's see, today, was it today or yesterday? Maybe tomorrow, on World's Last Chance.

Someone called up on it, and I did an analysis of it. It's a non-Christian cult.

So sometimes getting in early can help stop them and really deter them. But this group has already started. But anyway, if you find information, send it to me. Maybe I can do an expose on them.

Okay, but anyway, go ahead.

Okay.

Yeah, so so let's start with the first verse. Deuteronomy Six four. They say that Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah, here, the Lord our God is one, and they'll say he's one, not three. And the question you ought to ask at that point is: one, what? The word in Hebrew there is echad, not yaheed. Yaqid means a single unit, a single thing, but echad can mean a composite unit, like a a group of or one one cluster of grapes like that. And so, when it says, but basically, you don't want to get into that, they generally don't.

So, when they say that, just say, yeah, the Bible says God is one, and the Trinity is the teaching that God is one, there's only one God. We believe that. That's what the Trinity is.

Okay? That's what you do with that one.

Okay.

And they also say with that, that they believe the foundation of biblical monotheism is oneness and not a tripersonal being. Yeah, oneness theology, okay, when you say oneness, Then they have logical problems, and I can get into some of them. For example, if God is one person. then we have these questions. What was he doing for eternity?

Well, if he's one person, can he think? Because if he thinks, he already knows all things he'll be thinking about. And if he knows all things he'll be thinking about, how can he consider what he might know? Because he'd already know all considerations. I call this a static mind problem.

That in the singularity of of God just being one person, then there is this implication of staticness within his mind. The Trinity solves a problem because there's an interaction between the persons. Then there's the issue of the nature of God as love, 1 John 4:8.

Well, God is love, all right. Jesus says in John 15:13, the greatest act of love is to lay your life down for your friend. John 3:16, you know, God's loved the world He gave.

So I ask him: if God is one person from eternity past, who was he loving? How is the expression of love manifested? Because they can't say it's just, well, the future idea. He was loving.

Now, you don't love an idea. You love individuals, you love people. And so then I say, from what it necessitates, then is that your view of God means that when the true expression of love is to be exemplified, it can only be there when there's something other than himself. A created order that he can then love, and therefore it implies an insufficiency in that view of God. Make sense?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, that's one thing. Yeah. We get into other issues too. There's more s philosophical, logical ones I can get into, but Yeah. Anyway, go ahead.

Gotcha. He m or I don't I actually I don't sh actually know that the guy right outside is used they. Um they mention Matthew 3, 17 and John 14, 28. And comment on that. I heard a voice out of heaven, my beloved Son, whom I'm well pleased.

Now, I'm not sure if they're Unitarian or if they're oneness, because sometimes Unitarians will say the oneness of God. What they mean is God is one person. Where oneness theology is sometimes defined as modal monarchianism or Sabellianism, or Unitarianism is simply one person. They might go to verse like this, there's my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased, to say that Jesus is a separate person, therefore he's not divine, he's not God. Where oneness would say they would adopt what's called Nestorianism.

That Jesus has two natures and the natures speak at different times.

So, this is one of the things we have to clarify: is the guy Unitarian or is he oneness? As in when it's Pentecostal. But generally, when they say this, if it's Unitarian, my beloved Son, whom I will please, I say, yeah, so. And what I'll often do is not give too much information. I'll say, yeah, well, what's the problem there?

And they might say, well, it shows that Jesus is not God. I'll say, where does it say that in the scripture there? What calls him his son, Jahan?

So if he's his son Well, how does it mean he's not divine? Because the Son of God means he's not God. Oh, so the term son of God means he's not God? Yes. Then what does the term son of man mean?

You're not a man? I say, what does it mean? And I go to John 5, 18. He was calling God his own father, making himself equal with God. And there's ways, you know, you know, me, I do all this stuff all the time.

So there's different ways of getting around this and dealing with that.

So that was Matthew 3:17. What's the other verse? John 14, 28. Uh John 14, 28. Uh The father is greater than I.

Yeah, just generally uh this is uh He doesn't sound like a oneness person, but a Unitarian. And Jehovah's Witnesses will use this verse too: he's greater than I, and say, Jesus was made under the law, Galatians 4:4. And in what's called the Carmen Christi of Philippians 2:5 through 8, have this attitude in yourselves, which also was in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being the founder of the likeness of flesh. He humbled himself to the point of death, even death on a cross.

So I say, Jesus is the one who was made under the law, Galatians 4:4, for a little while than the angels, Hebrews 2:9.

So being under the law, the Father then was in a greater position of authority than was Jesus. It does not mean that Jesus is not God because I'm greater in authority than my wife is in the family. I'm the head of the family. It doesn't so I'm greater than my wife in that responsibility. It doesn't mean she's not human because of that relationship.

Okay.

Yeah. Next up. Um mark thirteen thirty two. Mark 13:32, but the day of the hour no one knows, but the angels in heaven.

Okay, so. In the wedding feast, when the two different families would arrange a A wedding, there was a year-long engagement, and the Husband to be was to build a room onto the father's house. And then When the father finally said you can go get your bride, do you go get the bride? But it wasn't just that simple. They would have to arrange the wine, the feast, have people come in from different parts of the country on a certain day.

Well, this is usually a year in advance. It took a while to arrange all this party festivities and this great thing called a marriage.

Well, about that time when the wedding was to occur, the bridegroom's friends would be there with him because they're going to help him out. And do various things. And they would say. When will the father tell you to go get the bride? And the response was: No man knows the day nor the hour but the father alone.

It was an idiomatic expression related to the wedding feast. We are called the bride of Christ in the wedding feast. It doesn't mean they didn't know what was going on or know when the wedding feast was going to occur. It was just an idiomatic expression.

Now, few people know this, and it is true. I've taught this at different conferences. I've had two Jewish people who became Christians come up to me a few years apart, and two of them said, Where did you learn that? Nobody knows that. They say, We're impressed you knew that.

I don't know where I got it. I just know it. And they said it's true.

So, I needed to find the documentation to verify that, but I was researching it once, was finding it, and I got sidetracked.

Now, that's one thing. If they want to say that Jesus is not God because he doesn't know anything, then you go to Revelation 19:12. Revelation, hold on. Revelation 19, 12. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on his heads are many diadems, and he has a name written on him which no one knows except himself.

He is clothed with a drow dripped in blood. His name is called the Word of God.

Well, that means Jesus is the Word. He has a name that no one knows except Himself. That means the Father doesn't know. Therefore, the Father can't be God. by his own logic.

Okay.

Hmm.

Okay.

Right. There's additions I could say to this, but that's good. Quick and slick. Go to the next one. I love doing this kind of stuff.

Go ahead. All right.

Okay.

So you got James one thirteen. Change. 113, yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, let's see. Yeah, you can't be tempted because nobody can be tempted by God, right?

And Jesus was tempted. You go to Psalms. He also is Matthew 4, 1 through 11 after the tempted part. Yes. And uh so then you go to Psalm 10614.

Okay.

And it's at the context is this, and I think teach them this, okay? It says, This is Psalm 106: Israel's rebellious, etc. And What you do is you go to verse 14. Uh I'll go to verse 13. They quickly forgot his works.

They did not wait for his counsel, but craved intensely in the wilderness and tempted God in the desert.

So the Jewish people on the Exodus tempted God.

Well wait a minute, God can't be tempted, but yet he's tempted.

So I have to explain to them, there's two kinds of temptation.

So I'll use myself as an example. I have no interest in sports.

So if I was having a dinner with my wife all set up and someone said, hey, man, oh, we got a break coming up. I'll talk about temptation, different kinds of temptation. We'll continue, okay?

So hold on, buddy. All right?

Okay, folks, be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Okay, everybody, welcome back to the show.

Let's get back on with. Alan, you still there, buddy?

Okay.

Yep, can you hear me?

Okay, so there's two kinds of temptation.

So, if I'm going out to dinner with my wife and it's been set up for a month, and someone offers me dinner. Tickets to a baseball game. I'm not tempted. They're tempting me, but I'm not tempted internally. No thanks.

You're offering a temptation. But if someone were to say, hey, there's a new alien sci-fi movie out, you want to go see it?

Now I'm tempted because I'm able to be tempted. Yeah, that w that would do it, definitely do it.

Okay, so I mean I'd say to my wife, I'm sorry, hon, but uh you know, she'd give me that look and I'd have to just think about the movie while I was eating and trying to pretend I was having a good time 'cause I'd be waiting for that movie.

So You know, that's me. I got issues, I know.

So, uh, the idea is that uh. That you can be offered a temptation as a tempted God in Psalm 106:14. And Jesus could have been tempted. To say that God can't be tempted is not true, because that's what the Bible says happened, but it doesn't mean he's tempted internally. It's an external temptation, not an internal.

Gotcha. The person was doing the tempting, but Jesus wasn't internally tempted. There was no wavering in his. you know, his mindset, I guess. Right.

Yep. That's right.

Okay.

Gotcha. All right.

Let's go to Luke 22:42. Where he is. Not my will, but your will. Yeah, and this is consistent with the doctor literature.

Sorry, I do this all the time. Just in my head. Fuck it. Yeah, not my will, but your will be done. And they will say, what they're doing is.

Misunderstanding the nature of the Trinity when it comes to wills. Let me give you some of the doctrine here. God exists as one being, and as one being, He has one will. But we s discover The manifestation of the persons when they interact with each other and when they interact with us.

So the Father sends the Son. for example, that shows distinction. But at the same time, Jesus says he can do whatever he sees the Father doing. John 5:19, John 5:30 talks about this. But what we have is a doctrine for you.

Jesus is the word that became flesh. This means 2,000 years ago. is when Jesus came into existence.

Now when I say that, I want people to understand that what I'm saying is when Jesus came into existence, it means the union of the divine nature and the human nature. That union began 2,000 years ago. That's what that means. That 2,000 years ago is when the union of the divine nature and the human nature occurred.

Now, the reason this is important is because Jesus is, I'm going to use the word composite. Because I want to get this idea across. But I don't like, I never use the word composite normally. but a composite of two natures.

So that the attributes of two natures are ascribed to the single person.

So Jesus will say, I am thirsty. He will say, I'll be with you always. He's claiming the attributes of humanity and divinity.

Now. Within each nature is a will, And this is called dithelatism from the Greek theleo, to will, di to, two wills, one of the human nature, one of the divine nature, dithelatism.

So what this means then is that uh by definition a person has one will because it's one person.

So there's a mystery to this. We don't know how it works, but we know that the attributes of these two natures are ascribed to the one person. It's called the communicatio idiomatum. Or the communication of the properties.

So, what we can then say is that Jesus is a single person. He has one will as one person. Within him is uh two natures.

So when Jesus is praying in the garden to the Father, he's praying as the person of Jesus to the Father. He's obligated to pray to someone he would call God because he's under the law as a man. You're to worship God. You're to serve him and no one else. Exodus 20 verses 3, 4, and 5 and Leviticus 16, 1.

So he's supposed to do that. Or is it 26, 1? He's supposed to do that. Or 24, 1. I'm trying to remember.

Now I've got to remember all these verses in my head.

Okay.

Challenging me here. Yeah, sometimes it is. I get all this stuff in my head, and then I, yeah, it's 26-1. And so, um, So now when he said, not my will, he's speaking as the single person with two distinct natures. And he's praying to the Father.

is addressing the Father. And this is because we know this. He says, Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Pray to the Father.

So he's not saying he's not God, but he's showing the distinction between the persons. And that's why he says, not my will.

Now, the my will is singular, which means Jesus, as a single person, has this one will. But within him is two natures, dithelatism, etcetera.

So that's all that is.

Now, I gave you a lot of information. But what I would say to them on a quick and slick version is: well, yeah, he said that because he's completely a man. But he has two natures, God and man. And so, as one person with those attributes of both divine and human, he has a will. He's talking to the Father.

Not my will, but yours be done. That's all that is.

Okay.

I think also sometimes people get confused, like with, I don't know, mythology and stuff like that, because Jesus isn't. A demigod, he is fully man and also fully god.

So it's different to how that's explained in other Literature. That's right.

That's who he is. Uh-huh. Yep. And his last one or their last one is Acts two hundred and thirty six. Where he says, Jesus is made Lord, not inherently God, he was granted authority, not born with it eternally.

Right. Now this is, let me tell you. One of the things I will teach people in these kinds of challenges, there's two verses you need to memorize: their address. and it's Galatians 4.4, Hebrews 2.9. If you understand, you memorize those locations, those addresses, and you go there, that'll answer 95% of all the problems.

Galatians 4.4 made for a little while, I mean, is made under the law. And Hebrews 2:9 made for a little while Lord and the angels. Made under the law, May Lord and the angels Under the law, Galatians four, Lord and the Angels, Hebrews two nine. Therefore, as someone who was under the law who's made lower than the angels, then he would be made Lord in Christ by God. Because of his position of humility.

Under the law. And we know this is confirmed in the Carmen Christi of Philippians 2:5-8. He emptied himself. This does not mean he's not God, but that under the requirements of the law, God then exalted him as the God-man and made him Lord and made him Christ. Because this is the work of the Father.

because Jesus says in John five nineteen Okay, John 5:19, he says the Son could do nothing of himself unless it is something he sees the Father doing. And I can go into verses to show the deity of Christ and answer these guys all these questions and stuff like that. But these are the kinds of things that. that they will ask. Hebrews I'm excited.

Galatians 4:4, Hebrews 2:9. Those are the things you've got to know. Those are the ones you have to understand. And that'll help out. Yep, and I guess we should end off.

Oh, another break. Hold on. One more. After the break, okay? They'll get a germane.

Hold on, folks. We'll be right back after these messages, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome. You're on the air, buddy. Hey Matt, can hear me?

Yes I can.

Okay.

So yeah, uh I don't wanna I don't wanna monopolize uh too much of your time. I already have the show, but It's okay. They need to know this. They need to know this. This is important.

This is what I do. This is it. Go ahead. Yep. Um but I think we should end off with what is the process God does to save someone and what is the faith that one has to be granted by God in order to be saved?

The faith is in Christ, John 6:29. Jesus says, This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent. God grants that we have faith. That's Philippians 1:29. The process of salvation is not a process.

God is the one who caused us to be born again, 1 Peter 1.3, and we are therefore justified by faith. Romans 5.1, Romans 3.28, Galatians 2.16, Romans 4.5. This justification is the imputation of God's righteousness to us by faith, Philippians 3.9.

So, it's not a process. What happens is God has elected us from the foundation of the world. For salvation. That's Ephesians 1, 4 and 2 Thessalonians 2.13. He says he chose us from the beginning for salvation and that he chose us in Christ.

And he predestined us. That's what Ephesians 1.5 says. And then Romans 8, 29. Those whom he foreknew, he also predestined.

So, whether people like it or not, I don't not teach this if they don't like it. I just tell what the Bible says, and God elects. God predestines. Then God grants that they have faith, Lippians 1.29, and that faith is in Christ, John 6.29. And then I I say the faith that comes from God that's in Jesus is true and real faith, and that's the faith that justifies us.

Romans 4:5.

Okay.

And is everyone granted? Is everyone elected? No. He elects certain people in Christ.

Now, we can get into more theology here because the phrase in Christ is a term that falls under the title of. Federal headship. Federal headship is a teaching that the male represents a descendants. In Adam is a phrase a federal headship phrase. In Adam all die.

That's 1 Corinthians 15, 22.

So We died with Christ, Romans 6:8. And that's what it means. Romans 6:6, we died with Christ, we were crucified with Christ. This is all federal headship representation. The The fall of Adam means that everybody fell in him.

In Adam, all die. 1 Corinthians 15, 22. And Romans 5:19, through the transgression of the one, the many were made sinners. That's Romans 5:19. Through Adam's sin, the many, that's everybody, were made sinners.

by what he did. Yeah. So everybody then is naturally going to where they belong, which is hell. because they are by nature children of wrath, Ephesians two three. And we're obligated to Uh to follow God.

And he commands everyone everywhere to repent. Acts 17:30. He says, Be holy, for I am holy. He says that in 13 1 Peter 1:16. In Matthew 5:48, Jesus says, Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.

And he's talking about the context of love. And so the requirement of holiness and perfection and repentance is based on God's character, not our ability.

So people make the mistake of thinking God won't ask you to do anything you can't. Yes, he does. This is not humanist philosophy that we need to espouse, but biblical, God-centered theology, God's ascended of righteousness and holiness.

So. What God has done from all eternity past, knowing that all people fell in Christ. For whatever reason that He chose, and we don't know the criteria, we do not know it. But he elected people for salvation. And those are the ones that are granted faith.

As many as had been appointed to eternal life believed, Acts 13:48. He causes them to be born again, 1 Peter 1:3, and they're born again not of their own will, John 1:12 and 13.

So, election is the eternal decree of God. From all that he knows, and we can get into what that means, that he has chosen people for salvation, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. He grants them faith, Philippians 1:29, but that faith is in Christ, John 6:29. And everybody else is left to go the way they choose. in rebellion against God.

And they choose sin over God. That's their natural way, their natural choice.

So, therefore, they are responsible for their own sin. But God is the one responsible for the election, because it occurs in Him from the inter-Trinitarian communion from forever ago.

Okay.

All right.

Sounds good. I I appreciate it, Matt. All right, I'm just giving you Biblical theology, all right? Biblical theology, that's what it is. A lot of people don't like what I just taught, but that's why I teach it from the scriptures and show and actually quote the verses.

Because that's what it says. I'm gonna pray that I can uh Only my conversation and the second I was off of the call I mean, it was muted all the way up to the end of the call. I don't know what happened. I don't know if it was spiritual warfare or what.

So I was like, dang it.

Well, you know, have him call up, or if he wants, in all seriousness, I do a one-on-one conversation, or have you on, you do a three-week phone convo, or we could do something online, or something. We just go through it. I go through it slowly and patiently and answer all his objections. And then I can ask him questions that he won't be able. to answer.

Okay.

Yeah, sounds good. All right.

Okay.

All right.

God bless. Thank you, man. All right, man. God bless. All right.

Now let's get to.

Okay, here we go. Alberto From Georgia, Alberta, welcome. Yes, can I make a quick comment, some comment? What if I say if the the lesbians in the all the gays are the most loving, wonderful people, the most loving in all the world. And reach them, reach them, reach them with another gospel, but not the gospel of Christ.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay, are you I'm not sure, are you asking a question or what? What's a comment? I said, so should we reach the homosexual, the loving homosexual people? with another gospel, but not not but not the gospel of Christ. Uh yeah, I would never do that.

They need the true gospel like everybody else does.

So, do you have a question? Yeah, uh Yeah, I have a question too. Uh If Christians acc I don't want to put this in the back, if Christians accuse you, they're right. Not being a Christian, right? And then after you've after you commit and then after you've committed sin and fall, you've ruined your testimony, then suddenly now they wouldn't recognize you as a Christian, but not before.

So now your testimony is good. Oh, okay, now you're a Christian.

Okay, Alberto, you have a lot of comments, and I get that, but I would. You know, I'd just like it if you were to call up and ask a question about this.

Sometimes your questions are. You know, a half a paragraph long.

Okay, so I'd like you to focus. And see if you can get a question down in one sentence. And then we can, you know, go in that direction.

Okay, okay.

Okay, we could ask you one then one quick question. Sure.

Okay.

I I hear preachers They'll say, uh Like, as a man thinking his heart, so is he.

Now, I hear our preachers say this all the time, but what is the proper context of that passage? As a man thinks, so is he.

Okay.

Uh Well, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, Jesus says in Matthew 12:34.

So, as a man speaks, that's what he is. That's Proverbs 23:6 and 7.

So we go there. Or think of or think us. What's that? As it entered for as it tentative speakers. I'm sorry, I didn't understand.

W repeat that? As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he as a man speaketh, which is he speaketh or thinketh?

Well, as man thinks within himself, that's what he is, okay?

So is that biblically correct in the corp in the whole context? Yeah, if I said an example. If I say I I'm the most handsomest man in all the world, the most Wisest men in all the world, and the most holiest men in the world. That's my whole point. No, no, no, no, no.

It's not that you think that's what makes it what it is. What the Proverbs is talking about is if you think of yourself in an arrogant way, you know, you think these things. That's what you are. You're arrogant. It's just a statement showing that the true truth of who you are is your innermost person, your innermost being.

And it's either good or bad, so to speak. It's just a proverb, it's a wisdom proverb, that's all it is.

Okay? Okay, one quick question. I was talking to that man yesterday. I wanted to call in, but remember that man talking about the Old Testament, you know, seeing God and all that. I know the Bible says somewhere in the Old Testament, I heard some preachers say that.

I know God draws an unapproachable light, like you said, and God's omnipresence, He's all aware at all times and presently.

So we're in the Old Testament when they say Moses saw the form of God. That means that God is in one spot.

Well, hold on, we got a break. Hold on. We got a break. We'll get back to that later after the break.

Okay, so hold on, folks. If you want to give me a call, the number is 8772-07-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Alright, and welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Alberto from Georgia Alberto.

Okay, I forgot where we were.

So. Did you have a question or a follow-up question? God is omnipresent and God does unapproachable light.

So, how can Moses saw the form of God. That means God in one little spot. He saw the shape of the form. And then that cannot be God. The Trinity solves the problem.

God says in Exodus 33, 20, You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live. In John 6:46, Jesus says, no man's ever seen the Father at any time. And in the context of speaking of the Father, 1 Timothy 6, 16 says, He dwells an unapproachable light who no man has seen or can see.

So who are they seeing in the Bible when Adam and Eve were walking in the garden, or in Exodus 6, 2, and 3, or Exodus 24, 9 through 11, or Numbers 12, 6 through 8, where God is seen? Genesis 17, 1, 18, 1. What this is, is simply a pre-incarnate Christ. It's a manifestation of the pre-incarnate Christ. They were seeing God Almighty, but not God the Father.

That's the answer.

Okay? So, okay, my question is to go okay.

Now, the pre-incarnated Christ in what form? An angelical form? No. It's just a human form. That's all it is.

When He manifests as a human form, that's all it is.

Okay? Okay, how come in the in the in the burning bush and say the angel of the Lord Wasn't a burning bush. That was a pre-incarnated Christ, right? The angel with a capital A. The word angel means messenger.

It does not necessitate that it's a created being. though there are a class of beings called angels that are created. The angel of the Lord has the name of God within.

So I would just conclude. that it is the pre-incarnate Christ in those forms.

Okay? Okay, now quick, quick, quick, quick question. Also, if I get into all this, Now, Jesus, I have two more. I got that. Jesus, God's a spirit, right?

It keeps all places a lot of time. The Bible says that Jesus sees the he doesn't do anything unless the father see what his father is doing. That Jesus He's God.

Okay, he see this Can you see that you'll see the face of the Father? Yes, Jesus can. Jesus says in John 6:46, no one has seen the Father except the one who's from God. He has seen the Father. He's talking about himself.

So, yes, he has.

Okay.

So he's the father, the second, the first person that got here.

So Jesus has a special. Oh, Attributes to see God, not we don't. Even though we're glorified body, we still cannot see God. But Jesus has the ability as God Himself to see the Father. The word, Jesus is the word made flesh.

The word's part of the trinity. I don't know where you've seen the Father.

Okay.

I sort of confused this because I'm confused there because Jesus I know second six is the second person of the Godhead. And the Father is the person is the first person in the Godhead. But how can he still see the father as The word saw the Father, and the attributes of both natures are ascribed to the single person.

So Jesus says, Glorify me with the glory I had with you before the foundation of the world. That's John 17, 5. The communication of the properties of both natures to the single person of Christ. That's why he would say, Glorify me with the glory I had. That's why you could say, He has seen the Father.

Because the attributes of the divine aspect, nature, are attributed to the single person.

Okay.

Okay.

But I I heard a preacher one time said, I don't know if it was Chuck Swindler, he said that for all eternity the Father and the Son were facing each other. The face-to-face, all internet. Yeah. Look, when people tell me they say someone says something, I generally. I had to know the context, know what they're saying before I really make comments.

But you know, so I'm just telling you with the the biblical position here and and the logical issues.

Okay? Oh.

Okay, one more quick quick relation to all this, please. I'll let you ask one more question. I hear a lot of Muslims say. They say that they see the appearance of Jesus and all that, right?

Now, Jesus was born 2,000 years ago.

So and nobody's seen Jesus back then.

So when we go to the next one, we can't do it.

Okay.

No one saw Jesus. That's not true. The disciples. We saw him. No, no, no, no, but listen, and I talk about that.

They don't jump the gun. Jesus was on earth two thousand years ago as a man. All these Muslims claim they have pyramids of Jesus Christ.

Now the send that. No, no, they're not saying appearances. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. They're saying they're having visions and dreams of Jesus.

Now, so I know I actually met a guy in Jerusalem who said that Jesus physically appeared to him. I mean, I'm just, you know, so that's not a problem, okay? Not a problem theologically. But let me finish my mind. Since they've never seen Jesus, two thousand years ago a Muslim If Jesus appears to them, how do they recognize Jesus if that is Jesus if they've never seen Jesus two thousand years ago?

The hard and no bad use of their disappearance of them is Christians. I'll answer. I'll answer. You can put a lot of stuff in there. Look, they just know because Christ is able to reveal himself.

To them, they just know. This is what happened when I got saved when the Lord Jesus was there next to me. I couldn't see him or touch him, but I knew it was him. I don't know how I knew. I just did.

God is perfectly capable of revealing Himself to people and making Himself known to who they are. to who he is regarding them.

Okay? You can do it.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

Okay, sounds good. All right.

Okay.

Now let's get to Stephen from Missouri. Stephen, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how's it going, man? It's going, man.

It's going.

So, what do you got, buddy? It's been a while since I talked to you. But anyways, So, I need an. I would just like your thoughts on this.

So, hear me out. Right. I'm a You know, I'm a Protestant, right? There's not many good churches in my area. Um And so It's all superficial.

I mean, you know, you got these mega churches. You know, I'm in the Midwest, so there's a lot of mega churches and. It's got that whole atmosphere. American evangelicalism, I guess.

Okay.

That's just my opinion. Anyways. I was thinking about attending an Eastern Orthodox church. Why would that be wrong? Why don't you just go to it?

You know, East Orthodox is one thing. Why don't you go attend a Mormon church? They're nicer. Once you do that.

Well, I wouldn't because they don't accept the Trinity. Yeah. Oh.

Okay.

So doctrine is important.

Okay.

So well, why not go to a church that accepts the Trinity but denies the gospel and promotes worship of idols? What about that? Why don't you go to one of those?

Okay.

So why wouldn't I go to a church that accepts the Trinity but worships idols? You mean with all Gods, I wouldn't do that? Yeah, okay, but it's okay then to go to a church. Hold on. So you're saying it's okay.

Yeah. Hold on. You're saying it's okay to go to a church that believes in Trinity, but they promote idolatry and a false gospel. It's okay to do that. Um Well, let's see.

Do we believe that people can be saved outside of Protestantism?

Okay, you're answering my question. You want to go to the East Orthodox Church. I didn't hear your question. What's your question? Look, let me explain.

You want to go to the East Orthodox Church, but it teaches a false gospel and promotes idolatry. Why would you want to do that? No, I didn't say I want it. I was asking you what were your thoughts. Don't do it.

Why would it be wrong? Because they not both have anything to do with darkness.

Okay.

Okay, then hear me out. And then my response would be this. This would be my response, Matt.

Okay.

If you're asking you know, I'm asking you why you tell me why. And I say, Hey, Matt, The the Christian churches are no better because they deny the doctrines themselves.

Okay, hold on.

So the Christian ones don't don't affirm it, so you want to go to one that that you say doesn't affirm it. It doesn't make any sense. Hear what you're saying. The Christian didn't affirm it. You said that.

I didn't. You said that. You just said they don't. You said the Christian churches aren't affirming that doctrine. No, Matt, I said the Christian churches don't affirm the doctrines.

Which doctrines? The Eastern Orthodox Church affirms the Trinity. I know, but you're talking about churches around you. Are you saying there's no churches around you that are Protestant that affirm the Trinity? There are, Matt, but what I'm again, like I said, they're very superficial.

Okay.

So, okay.

Okay, okay, gotcha. They're superficial. Yeah. So you're saying they're superficial. You're saying they're superficial, and so now you're entertaining the idea of going to a false religion that preaches a false gospel and promotes idolatry, even though they teach a Trinity.

I have a question. I have a question. Okay.

Because you made some statements about the church, the Eastern Orthodox Church. Yeah, it's a false church.

Okay, well, hold on. You're saying, right, you're saying you want to go to a church that teaches that. And I'm saying, I don't know that. You said you did. I thought you said you.

Okay, okay, let's get back on Trinity. I know they affirm the Trinity. I know they affirm the Trinity. I got you. I got you.

We're past that. Do you want to attend a church? Like the Eastern Orthodox, you want to go there. That denies the gospel. and promotes idolatry.

Is that what you're saying you want to do? How does it deny the gospel? Because it adds works to salvation. It denies flat out that justification is by faith alone in Christ alone. What Eastern Orthodoxy teaches.

But that's not, Matt, believing in that doctrine isn't what makes you saved. You know this.

Okay, you're just looking for an excuse. Look, hold on. You're not listening, and you're just looking for an excuse. But you hold on a sec before I mute you. Yeah, I'm not according to what you're saying.

Hold on, hold on.

Okay, hold on, hold on. Hold on. You're just looking for an excuse to go to a false church. That's all you're doing.

Okay.

You're looking for an excuse. And so, do you believe the true gospel that you're justified by faith alone in Christ alone? Do you? That's not the gospel. The gospel is God's God came as a man and died lost the gospel.

Hold on. What you just said was a. Would you hold on a second? Collee The Bible tells us that we are justified by faith alone in Christ alone. That's what it says.

We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. The Eastern Orthodox violates that and requires keeping of the law in order to be saved.

So it's violating the part of the gospel that deals with justification by faith alone in Christ alone. That's what it's doing. Can I respond real quick? Can I just say something real quick now? Go ahead.

All right.

If I'm born again, right? I'm born again. Oh, wait a second, Mac. We only have a minute. Go ahead.

Just hear me out. I just sat here and listened to you. I'm just responding to what you're doing because I'm being genuine. We're done. Look, I'm going to tell you something.

You got one minute, you're being confronted with the idea that you're going to justify going to a false church, and I'm not going to grant that to you. And you want to justify it in different ways.

So I suggest you call back tomorrow, we have more time, and we can get through this. And we'll go through what the Eastern Orthodox Church actually teaches. And I'll show you why it's a false religion. And all who attend it, well, not attend it, but all who believe official Eastern Orthodox theology cannot be Christians. They're going to go to hell.

They're going to be in judgment. And that's what we can talk about tomorrow. But we're out of time. And the fact, Stephen, that you're so obstreperous about this, so difficult about this, tells me in your mind, you've already committed you want to go to them and you don't even know what the true gospel really is.

Now, if you think I'm wrong, call back tomorrow and let's talk about it. You can correct me, but let's see because I want you to call back tomorrow. But you have to be a little bit calm. A little bit calmer than that, okay? All right, folks, there's the music.

And just like in a second or two, may the Lord bless you by his grace, Lord willing, back on tomorrow. Maybe this guy will call and we'll get into it. And maybe I'll just do a, if you want to call and remind me, I'll do an expose of why the East Orthodox Church is a false religion. It is a false religion. It's a false church with a false priesthood, a false gospel, and it promotes idolatry.

I will die on that hill. We'll be back tomorrow by God's grace. Talk to them. Another program powered by the Truth Network.