Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome to this show. It's me, Matt Slick. And you're listening to Matt Slick Live. Today's date is.

April 14th, 2026, if you want to give me a call, it's easy. Eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. And you can email me at info at carm.org, info at carm.org. Put in the subject line radio comments, radio question, and we can get to your stuff there. That's just another way to do things.

If you want to do that, you can. And uh easy peasy. All right, all right, guys, plenty to talk about. And we've got a caller waiting.

So let's jump into the caller. Alex from Florida. Hey, buddy. How you doing, man? Hey, what's going on?

I I said I'd call in today. I'm a man of my word. Yes, that's true. That's true.

So Yeah, no.

So I got on Discord yesterday. I was looking for you. But did you just have the thing on and like you weren't in any rooms? Yeah, I go into rooms. Yeah, I was in um the Calvinism room.

I was trying to find the Calvinism room. I couldn't find it. I'll tell you what, uh what I can do let's see You know, get me thinking here. Let me do this. If I go to Carm and look up the word discord, I think I've already put stuff, the links and stuff like that in there.

PAL talk, no, I no, no, I guess not. Huh.

So maybe I'll throw social media. I know I did something so that people can find it. Maybe this is what I did: social media, car social media. Clubhouse Discord, yeah. There it is.

Um Oh, it's on the website? Yeah. Yes, it is.

So if you go in and type in social media and go to Discord, We can see if that works. You can try it and give it a go.

So I was on last night discussing. Uh Well, varying topics. What happens a lot is I'll go into these rooms and it turns into a dog pile where everybody tries to tackle me all at once and then they overtalk and then they, you know, it's pretty bad. And uh so I I always say, Look, one at a time, one at a time. I can't do five at a time.

Yeah, I would no, it was uh it was crazy 'cause like, you know, I haven't I'm usually on the streets or we go to campus or the beach evangelizing.

So I was like, Let me go into one of these rooms last minute. I had about an hour.

So I'm listening, listening, and then I'm in this room and I start. This girl says something about being Muslim. I said, Oh, are you Muslim? Why do you believe in Islam? And then she's like, Oh, this isn't the right channel.

You know, go into a debate channel.

So. We go into the debate channel and then the Muslims just come in. And they just come in. And like you said, they're rude, they're interruptive. They're vile.

They swear. They cuss. The guy said he couldn't wait to get to paradise because he's going to be a martyr. He's going to kill. uh Jewish people and and fight against IDF and stuff.

I mean they were saying wild stuff. And then when I said they're bringing up quote unquote Bible contradictions, which which there are none, and they're bringing them up, and then I go, Well, no, let's let's go through this, you know, let's go through that. Oh, it's a contradiction. Yeah, yeah, you didn't do anything. You know, they just they just claim defeat without even listening to what you're saying.

It's pretty typical. Yeah, it is pretty typical because they don't have regeneration. They have rules and regulations that are external. The work of God is internal. The work of man is external.

And their stuff is all external. There is no change of heart with them. And I've encountered this so many times with Muslims. They're arrogant, prideful, stubborn. They don't listen.

They don't stand to any correction. You're the fool. They're the bright ones. You're the idiot. They're the ones who are knowledgeable.

And that's her attitude. I've come across this so many times.

Okay, it's seriously.

Well, yeah, and then I was gonna say, is there was one, you know, young, she sounded like a young Muslim woman. And I want to talk to her. And then the other Muslims come in and they're they're defending Islam. The one guy said that we believe in the same God. I said, No, we do not.

So he didn't really even know what he believed. And then the other guy came in and he said, I have the Holy Spirit just like you. I see. No, they say the Holy Spirit. Here's one of the things I will say to them.

I'll go to Surah 283. And it says in the middle of the verse, speak fairly to people. Are you lame? Are you being sort of 283? Are you obeying it?

Okay. And they they don't. And I've got notes and stuff like that on it, the good and righteous to people and fairly and it's shut them up. I'm surprised at how often I've had to cite it. And how well it works before them, because they'll shut up.

And I'll say, is this what your your Quran teaches you? And some of them say, Are you going to practice takiyah, which is deceit? Are you going to do a jihad on me? Are you going to do a suranine on me? I mean, I say things to some of them.

And uh And there's ways to get to them. There's ways to witness to them and stuff like that. But when they're difficult, You have to meet their difficulty because, in that culture, they believe the ones who are louder are the more correct ones. And so you have to be loud back. I was taught this by a guy who was raised in Islamic Arabic culture.

And this is what you do. If you show weakness, it means you're not correct. They are. It's really interesting.

So maybe, yeah, maybe I can be a little loud back. I guess I would be like, um you know, when the Apostle Paul says, Be all things to all men, maybe that that's just how you get through though. Yeah, it's it's a cultural thing. And I've been told this by more than one person who knows Islamic culture. uh that uh you have to confront them.

and what I'll try and do, depending on the situation. I'll say, is this what your Islam teaches you? to be rude like you are. And I was trying to shame them. And I've even said you shame your prophet.

And I've said things like that. And then Surah 283, you know, it says, worship none, but Allah treat with kindness your parents and kindred and orphans and those in need. Speak fair to people, be steadfast in prayer. And I ask him, Are you being fair? Are you speaking fairly to me?

Yeah, that's the I like this yeah, I like the Surah 283. I'll use that next time. And then they they claim you know, they start you know, they're trying to c talk about the Bible, but I say, Have you ever read it?

Well, no. It's like... Yeah. How are you trying to act like you understand it if you've never even read it? When they real contradictions, by the way, one of the things you can do is say, All right, can you please explain to me what a contradiction is in logic?

And that's what I'll ask them. And they don't know. That's what I was getting at yesterday. They couldn't define contradiction logically, they couldn't define it. Damn it.

And so I'll tell them: if you can't define it, then you don't know what it is, and so you can easily misplace it when you're trying to go against the Word of God, which the Quran says isn't corrupted. And I say, you know, the scriptures, the Bible, can you show me a verse in the Quran that says the Bible's corrupted? Yeah. Oh, that's good. That's a good one too.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And so, you know, there are verses that. Uh That speaks of the Bible being trustworthy.

Okay, so. They're there, like Surah Six, I think Surah 1094 is one of them. And uh Surah 546 is another. Then we sent following the root their footsteps of Jesus, son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah. And uh There's 1094.

So if you're in doubt, Muhammad, about what we've revealed to you. He says, Then go ask the people the book that came before you. The scriptures. Oh, that's good. See, that's what that guy was bringing up, bless Nathan.

Oh, we had to, you know, he's bringing up the crown. He said, that had to be revealed because everything was corrupted before it, and that's the true revelation. You know, everything, that's what he was talking about last night. One of the things I've said to them is this: I've said, look, okay, so the Bible's corrupted, right? And he says, yeah.

So you're telling me that God. The true God couldn't keep his word pure. Couldn't guarantee it right. And they have to say yes. But yet somehow your word is pure.

So the same God could only keep one set Correct and not the other? How's that work? Yeah, that that's that's that's pretty good. And I I thought it was funny too, because they brought up they're like, Oh, you know, your brothers, uh, Eastern Orthodox, Roman I said, Those aren't those preach false gospels. And then they bring up the church fathers.

And it's funny how all the false religions they all band together. you know, to try to attack Christianity. It's the spirit of Antichrist. in Mormonism, in Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism. Absolutely.

And I experience it on a regular basis going on Discord, where I see those three groups work together to preach a gospel of works. faith and works in order to be saved. And we get in, you know, I'm not the only one, we go in and preach the true gospel, and they hate it. They hate the gospel. Oh, oh, oh, yeah.

When I tried I started I said, you know, I had to go. I was like, let me I I have to go, but let me say one more thing. I started to say the gospel and then they all just started talking like crazy. Uhhuh. It's uh so common.

Yeah, not only among Muslims, but when I do that with the Roman Catholics and East Orthodox, same thing. Same thing. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yep.

There's so many times when it's just so obvious that it's like the enemy knows you're going to speak the word of God, the gospel itself, which saves, and all of a sudden, as people start becoming. Very rude, interruptive. They are mocking, condemning. It's just bad. Oh, yeah.

I've experienced it countless times. Absolutely. I've even brought it up. I said, man, why is it you guys hate the gospel so much? When I start speaking the gospel that saves you from your sin, all of a sudden you go ballistic.

Why is that? What is with you guys? They don't like that, but it's true. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it is.

Well, um Yeah, those those uh verses are helpful and uh I'm gonna go, but um Uh, have the listeners uh be praying for us. We're gonna be going out to um campus at Florida Atlantic University on Thursday.

So I'm going to be preaching. Will they be evangelizing? In and out tracks, so. Good. Good.

Yeah. Well good for you, man. Good for you. All right, brother. God bless.

Alright brother, I'll I'll catch you later.

Okay, sounds good. Bye. All right, interesting, he's having the same experience I do, and a lot of Christians do. The enemy is alive and well. Let's get to Keith from Ohio.

Keith, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, mister Slick. I have kind of the same issue going on here. I'm getting ready to debate a uh Unitarian.

And um this heretic, uh she her her point is uh that God is only the Father. that God doesn't refer to The train got it. And in this debate, she's saying and she's W wanting to kind of set up the debate in the entire New Testament. He said include Amy. the gospels and and the epistles and the book revelation.

She sang the the word God. just means the father. And that obviously isn't true. I'm having problem I need help with versus. I need help with w verses that use the word God.

Mm-hmm. It's about the trying guy.

Well, here's the thing. It's more like the verses that show that Jesus is God.

Now, if you say God's a triune God, that's a problem because they can ask the question: where in the Bible the New Testament does it refer to God as a Trinity? And I don't know of any particular verse like that that specifically says, God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. but you will find where all three are mentioned together. But that is a proof. That the Trinity is true.

So, the question: where does the New Testament say that the word God is referenced to the Trinity, is a false question because it's not based on how we arrive with the Trinity. Oh, they got a break, so hold on.

Okay, brother, we'll talk about this some more. We'll give you some advice and some stuff on how to work with her. All right, hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages if you want. You can give me a call, 877-20-722-76. I'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207227277. Six.

All right. Let's see. Looking at that. Let's get over here to get back on with Keith. Are you still there, Bill?

Yeah, Mona. All right. So Um I've had this question asked of me. Show me a single verse in the New Testament where the word God refers to the Trinity. And I say, there is no single verse like that.

And I will often pause. to see what they say. And nine times out of ten, they'll say, see, that proves the Trinity is not true. And then I say, that just tells me you don't know how the Trinity is arrived at because it's arrived at systematically. It's not arrived at by a single curse.

It's arrived at by the model of scripture. And I'll say, do you know what that system is? And they invariably just no, they don't. And I say that if you don't even know how it's arrived at, how do you know if it's true or false? Because for you to say one verse has to teach it is demonstrating that you don't understand what it is or how it's arrived at biblically.

So you can't falsify it by saying, where's the one verse that says it? That's not a falsification for the doctrine of the Trinity. Makes sense so far. I totally agree with that. Yeah, I totally understand that.

Yeah, that's absolutely right. But what I'm grappling with. is is um I'm not looking for just one verse. What she's saying is there's there's none. Like Paul and John and Peter, they're talking about the triangle God, that when they use the word God, It There's no exam there's got to be an exam.

What they're talking about are God.

Well, look, you can go to Hebrews 1. Uh One eight, okay. This is one of the verses I'll go to. And there are ways to trick people to see things.

So if you go to Hebrews 1:8, it says, But of the Son, he, it's the Father speaking. The Son, he says, your throne, O God, is for ever and ever. And I'd say, what do you do with that? That's what I'll do. What do you do with this verse where it's calling, where God the Father is calling Jesus God?

And this is a strong verse. And so they'll get different answers.

Well, he's quoting the Old Testament. Let's go to the Old Testament. Look at the Old Testament. I say, let's go to the Old Testament. Psalm 45, verse 6.

And look at that. Think about David, great. But the writer of Hebrews. applies it to Jesus. Are you going to say that Psalm 40 45 is Is how we interpret it when the inspired writer applied it to Jesus in the New Testament.

Now this corner is them at this point. that the writer of the Psalms Let's talk because there's Psalm or David? Psalms, yeah. But is that Solomon or is that David? I think that's David.

Well, there's different authors of the Psalms, but I think it was David. But um, I guess is is the is what But help me uh 'cause David said, Your throne, O God. That's Very good. Yes. Is that the Father or is that the Trinity or who is that?

Well, you don't want to do that. You want to just go look at what it says. And you talk about it in Psalms or are you talking about in Hebrews? Both, 'cause it's the Hebrews is quoting the Psalms.

Well, what it says in Hebrews uh s uh forty five six But uh back up one verse. You're Your arrows are sharp, your peo uh the people fall under you. Your arrows are in the heart of the king's enemies. Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter up.

Rightness of the supper of your kingdom.

Okay. Well, the psalmist takes it and says, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The psalmist, I mean, the Hebrews, the writer of Hebrews, is interpreting it and saying, This is what it belongs to.

So she can't deny that. And if she does, then she doesn't believe the Bible flat out. You just point it out. I'm sorry, but the writer of Hebrews, this is how the writer of Hebrews says: Are you more inspired than the writer of Hebrews? Do you know better than the writer of Hebrews, etc.?

So I think she's going to say that that the throne of God, the throne is that's the throne of the Father. And that King David of the Son. And that the Son is applying it to the Son because the Son sits on the Father's throne. But here, look, but it says. It says, but of the sun, in reference to the sun.

Your throne, O God.

So bring it up. The object. of your throne is the sun. Because it says, but of the Son, He, that's the Father, says about Jesus, about the Son, your throne, O God, is forever and ever.

So that's what you got to do. Gotcha.

Okay, it's about God's throne. All right, gotcha.

Now, this gives you a heads up about this. In the Greek, there's what's called the vocative and the nominative. Evocative is oh my. and the uh the nominative is the subject.

So the table. is uh the subject.

Now, in Greek, they're both spelt the same, the vocative and the. The nominative.

Now, what that means is I want to write this down. Vocative. The vocative. The nominative.

Nominative. Nominative. Nominative. Okay. So Legitimately You could translate this Greek.

Because Thronos and Thetos. because both of them take the form of the vocative and the nominative.

So, a legitimate Greek translation of Hebrews 1:8 is: God is your throne. is forever and ever. And it's also your God, oh your throne, O God, is forever and ever. But the reason why you're saying I shouldn't use that is you're saying that I shouldn't use that example of it. You let me finish, okay?

Let me finish the point, okay?

So you understand.

So you can translate it either way. She may be aware of this. The point is, it's a quote from Psalm 45, 6, and it's not like that in the Hebrew.

So you so if she were to say the vocative nominative, if by any chance she does, and says a literary translation in the Greek is God is your throne, you say, but it's a quote from Psalm 45, 6, and that's not valid from that quote. That's the answer to that one, okay. All right. Okay. So she says that okay, well, you but you but that's still The word God isn't about the the Trinity, it's about the Father.

Wh how do I respond to that?

Well, it's it's it's calling Jesus God. But not the Father. Jesus isn't the Father, right? The Father is addressing Jesus. It's a subject-object relationship of the Father.

Who's God? It's not it's not who's got okay, look. Subject object. I'm going to lose the bait, aren't I? No, you just got to understand a few concepts.

The okay. I threw the stone. The object is the stone. That's what was, you know. We can get into that.

I've got too much. pretty good nominative and all that stuff. Anyway, so the subject is I, performing the action on the on the uh the object.

So you have a subject, I, forming uh doing an action on the on the uh the object, you know, throwing the stone. It shows distinction.

So, what's happening here in Hebrews 1 is the Father speaking. God is speaking. You ask her, Who is that? They'll say it's the Father. They'll show some other things, too, that you can just nail her with.

So, you are my son.

So, who's the my? It has to be God the Father. That has to be got the Father, right? Today have begotten me. It has to be, yeah.

And I'll be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me. Who's the son? Jesus. But and then he brings the firstborn of the world, and let all the angels of God worship him. The a and since my siproskane, we'll skip all that.

And of the angels, he says, that's the father speaking, he says, mixes winds, etc. But of the son, he says, your throne, oh God.

So you follow the subject-object relationship, do that, and you'll do fine. Hold on, we've got more to tell you after the break. Vote you right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Bottom of the hour. Let's see Keith. Are you still there, brother?

Yes, sir. All right. Now, did you get that po the point about Hebrews one?

Well, I d I did, but I gotta confess that. I'm not as learned as you and I'm not sure that I could repeat it. It's all right. Let me break it down for you. Just do this.

Just read it. I mean, we don't have to go through it for all night. I'm saying first. No, I'm sorry. But I see that it totally means that Jesus is God.

But what I'm but the that's not the point of the debate. The point of the debate is is God. three persons is God, a shrining being. That's the point of the debate. And I think you said earlier.

Um No, the word God is not Used for the Trinity So let me ask you. Nope. Let's say that. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Look, you're just asking the wrong question.

You've got to hold on. And we shouldn't ask whether or not the word God is used for the trying God because that's not the point of Scripture. That's not what they're teaching.

Okay, now hold on.

Okay. So the question originally was: does the New Testament have a verse? Where it says, that's what I thought the question was, where it says that the word God refers to the Trinity.

Now, there are other ways we can address this, and one of them is simply: well, yes, of course. And you could say Well, you could let me show you.

Now, this takes a little bit more thought, okay, but not much.

Okay, you go to John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word, Word was with God, and the Word was God.

So, yeah, He was both with and was. that God which is Trinitarian theology. And I say, there you go.

So Jesus was with the Trinity? The Trinity is the teaching. That there's one being God is the Father there. There's okay, okay. Um I'm not sure I'm I'm I'm I'm not sure the I'm just trying to play devil's advocate on what she's gonna say.

She's gonna say that. proves her point that Jesus was With The Father, that's what I believe.

Okay. John 11 is saying Jesus was with the Father. Jesus wasn't with.

Okay, if you hold on, try you got it. If you hold on, I can work on it. How does that help me?

Okay, I'm trying. Trying to help you here. All right. John 1.1, you can say the word God there is a reference to the Trinity. Then she might respond in different ways.

One of them, she might say, is that God there is in reference only to the Father. then you can say, Well, then the Word was the Father. Is that what you're saying? You ask her. Because it's the word that kills flesh.

Let's let's go over this again.

So how do I answer that?

Okay, hold on. If she says that the word God is a reference to the Father, then in John 1 you say that the word was with God and the word was God.

So then you're saying the Word was the Father. from from what she has said. Right? No, no, I think she would say that the word is not the father. The word.

Okay, let's try it again. John one one In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.

Now you can say the word God there is in reference to the Trinity. You just say it. and see what she says. I didn't say it right.

Okay, because you want it, you don't want to prove everything. You can ask her questions, you can say things, and she's going to respond.

So when she says no, the word God there is in reference to the Father. not the Trinity. because she's a Unitarian, so God has to be the the Father.

So then you say, okay, then the word was with God, that's Jesus. Yeah, but the word was God.

So how is it that you as a Unitarian Say that the word God there is only a reference to the Father, but it's the word. That was God. Are you saying? that the Word is the Father. Yeah.

Then you go to John 4.14. John 1.14 says, The word became flesh. Did the Father become flesh? Yeah. Okay, so this is where the sun makes me flash.

Yes, I understand that. You've got to focus. The sun is the word. You're not focusing on the logic. The sun is the word, right?

Do we believe? Three eight.

Okay, listen listen but okay, hold on. you're working from her perspective. From here.

Okay, hold on. I've done this about a thousand times. I've done it about a thousand times, so hold on.

Okay. From her perspective, if she says the word was God and God is the Father, then it says the word was God, then the word is the father. That's logically necessary from her perspective. But verse 14 says the word became flesh. Who became flesh?

Is she saying the Father became flesh? She can't say that, because that's not Unitarian thought. We know it's the sun. You don't say that yet. Oh, you don't say that yet.

No, you've got to follow the logic. I've done this a million times. Gotcha.

Okay?

So, from her logic, you're.

Well, I haven't heard it a million times.

Sorry. That's okay.

So what you do it's okay. You get get through it though to get to the point.

So the thing is, then you ask her from her perspective, you're showing problems with her interpretation. You're showing she doesn't have a valid interpretation. She's going to interpret it. The word became flesh. That's the father that became flesh.

Is that what you're saying? to her. What's she gonna say? No, because you're right, the the unitarian perspective is not that the father became flesh. What what if she says no?

What if she says the word? refers to God's spoken word. And God refers to the Father. And God's spoken word was made flesh. What if she says that?

How do I answer that? But it says the word was Yeah, I know.

So here we go. The word wasn't.

Okay, you ready? Are you ready?

Okay. The word was God. Dude, you gotta hold on, man, okay?

So of course. trying to help you here. It says the word was God. If she's saying it's the spoken, just the speech of God. Then you're saying the speech of God is God?

Yeah, she I think I think that's what you need, Terry's boring others. But it's illogical. You are, you, yeah, you are your words. Your words define you, and that's what they would say. Yeah, I think so.

So I'm not sure. I'm not sure what she'll say. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

So, if she says the word is the spoken aspect, which some Unitarians do, then in the beginning was a spoken aspect. The spoken aspect was with God. But wait a minute. How can the speech of God be with God and also be God? See, what you're doing if you do this is you're using what they say against them.

A lot of times, what Christians want to do is prove their point always from the very beginning. And it's sometimes a mistake to do that. because you have two options you're working with, Unitarianism and Trinitarianism.

So these are the like two viable options that we are on the table here and now. And if you can demonstrate that her Unitarianism has inherent problems with it, you can then say more and more frequently, you're incoherent in your analysis of Scripture. This is why the Trinity is true. This is why the Trinity is true. You can't present a coherent argument.

but the Trinity can't. I'm getting some very sophisticated arguments. But you're not ready for those. This is one of the basic ones, okay? What are the basic ones?

All right. Yeah. There's ways you can do something. Are you ready for something else? Did you hear my question?

No, I didn't. I'm sorry, I may have cut out.

Okay, what what what's what question? In sticking to w to to John 1. How do how would I answer her if if she says then if This John is teaching the Trinity, why would he just completely eval the third person of the Trinity?

Okay, so here we go. You have to understand a principle. Questions have assumptions in them. Why are you still beating your wife? The assumption is that you've been doing this.

So When your question comes forward and says, If the question comes forward, and in that she says, Well, you're saying John is teaching the Trinity. Where is he teaching the Trinity? And your response is: I didn't say he's teaching the Trinity. I didn't say he was. I didn't say he wasn't.

You're the one. You're the one who said I was I said it, but I didn't say that. And this is the way you know about the community. Yes, it is, but it's also about what you say. Because a lot of times what they'll do is they will read into what you've said, things you didn't say, then attack what you didn't say.

And I'll point out, I didn't say that. And they'll say, well, you believe in the Trinity. Yes, I do believe in the Trinity. But I didn't say what you just said, I said. And I said, I didn't say that John is or isn't teaching it.

I just said what John 1:1 says from your perspective, and this is why your perspective is a problem. And you can say, I can show you even more.

So hold on. After the break, I'll show you something even more powerful, okay?

Okay, all right.

Okay, folks. We'll be right back after these messages and uh Keith's got some information from Mohile. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Keith. Keith is still there, brother. Yes, sir.

Okay. She's going to constantly refer to, and Unitarians do, show me a single verse for this or that. Whenever she does this, you have to have something written that you're going to repeat to her. The Bible does not teach the Trinity by a single verse. It's by the whole of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

So, you're asking this question shows you don't understand who the Trinity is.

Sometimes what I'll do is I'll ask them, do you know where the Trinity is? And they'll say, well, it's just a false teaching.

Well, perhaps it is, but do you know what it is? And they'll say, Well, I don't have to know. Yes, you do if you can debate it. If you don't know what it is, you can't argue against it.

Well, one God and three distinct, simultaneous, co-eternal persons who exist in a divine, simple being who that means the single God is triune in nature.

Now, I can give you so many different arguments.

Okay, okay.

Okay. So here's something to work with, and you can go on my website, carm.org. And you can look up what I call the plurality study. This study I have used So many times. I have these verses memorized.

And There's a trap for her. What you do is you can go to, for example, Exodus 6, 2 and 3. God spoke further to Moses, said to him, I am Yahweh, and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As God Almighty. And I ask him.

Who's talking in Exodus 6? 'Cause God spoke for Moses. She has to say God. Right. This is God.

And he identifies himself as Yahweh. Is that correct? Yes. That's the tutorial, that's the father.

Okay, you say, fine, that's the father. And you say, and he appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, right? And else you saw, yes.

Now there's a bunch of other verses I can use. And it to show this in the Old Testament. But then, what you can do is you go to John 6:46, where Jesus says, not that any man has seen the Father. except the one who's from God that's talking about himself there. He has seen the Father.

So I asked her: who was God Almighty in the Old Testament who's not God the Father?

Okay, wait, that that last that verse was No one has seen God, but what was it? What verse? John 6:46. It's all in the article, The Plurality Study. Gotcha.

I wrote it back in 2008, but I've been using this since. I'm sorry, I just can't create it again. The plurality study. Go to Carm, look up the plurality. I'm sorry.

John six forty six. And you can cross-reference it. with first Timothy six sixteen. Which is speaking of the Father who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.

So you ask. See Who was God Almighty in the Old Testament, but not God the Father? This is a devastating question for them. I don't understand how it's devastating for her. Because she would say that the father is Invisible.

The Father refers to God who is Spirit. And has not been seen, but Jesus Christ, on the other hand, it has been seen. Right. Who I understand how that's devastating to her. You don't?

I'm not c I'm not okay. I'm I'm just a regular guy. That's okay.

I'm just trying to understand how is that devastating to her position? She's going to say only God Almighty is the Father. Father is alone as God Almighty, right? It's God Almighty who's seen in the Old Testament. Who is that?

That's the Father. Jesus says it can't be. But Jesus says it wasn't the Father. In John 6:46, no man has seen the Father. Jesus says in John 6:46, not that any man has seen the Father.

He's saying no one's seen the father. He's invisible. He's spirit.

Okay. No one's seen the Father. She just said that the Father was seen. Jesus says no one's seen the Father. She says the Father seen.

Jesus says it's not the Father. The question then is So then you have So you ask the question: who is God Almighty in the Old Testament who's seen, but it's not the Father?

So so if she if she asked me who wasn't seen, who what's the answer to that? Do you know that you know it's safe? The question is No, if she asked me that, w how do I answer that? Who was not seen? The Father, John six forty six.

Because Jesus says so. The Father was not saint. Jesus says not to need to be a point. Jesus says no one's seen the Father. She says the father was seated.

And it's useful.

Okay. Our point is Jesus assuming that Jesus that the Father was He I'm not tracking. I'm sorry. Okay. I'm not tracking.

Okay, hold on. Okay. She will if you go to Exodus 6, 2 and 3, and you read it to her, you ask who was seen, God Almighty, she'll say it's God the Father. God Almighty is God the Father. Jesus says no one's ever seen the Father, John six forty six.

So They weren't seeing God the Father in the Old Testament, were they?

So, who were they saying? Who's God Almighty? Who's not God the Father? That's the question.

Okay. And she says they were saying God's representatives, but they weren't literally saints. God is a spirit. This is what is invisible.

Okay. How well how do I answer that? Go back to the text and read what it actually says. John said read the article, Plurality Study. There's lots of verses that you can see.

Okay. All right. So, just to finish out, I mean, I don't want to spend the whole the whole your whole show. But just just uh Should I start? the debate with You're asking me...

about a verse in the entire New Testament where the writers are talking gone. God and using the word God. Where they're talking about the trying God. Should I tell her that's. you're asking the wrong question, start from there and then go into where the Trinity Doctrine comes from.

But it it doesn't come from The writers talking about the trying God on the other side of the city. The Trinity is not taught in a single verse. It's revealed through the entire Bible. Right. Right.

I didn't say it was. But since I can't come up with any versus any, none, should I say that. that she's asking the wrong question. And the Trinity is taught in Scripture, and we have to combine. And understand the panophyle of scripture, all of it to come like.

The knowledge of the Trinity.

Okay. But so she's asking the wrong question. When Uh John and Paul. And Okay, all the guys in the news. Hold on, hold on.

Can you hold on? Hold on, they're not talking about the triangle God. They aren't.

Okay. To the understanding. Keith, Keith, take a breath. Keith start. Keith.

Take a breath, okay? You're going on, you're missing a lot of points. I'm trying to help you here, all right? What I want you to do is reduce the route. You said that about a half hour ago.

You said that she's asking the wrong question. I know, I got that. Keith, you need to. That's what I just repeated. Keith, Keith, I'm trying to talk to you about something, okay?

I want you to also go to Carm and look up the Trinity table. You need to know how the Trinity is arrived at. You need to have the foundation. I got it. You need to have the foundational principles.

that the Trinity is arrived at systematically, you can see how it's arrived at. then you can say that you're asking the wrong question, but that's not how the Trinity is arrived at. Then you can show her these trick verses that show her that it's God Almighty who's seen but not the Father. Who is it seeing? Is God Almighty is Jesus?

And I say this is one of the ways we support and establish the doctrine of the Trinity, and you're on your way. That's the that's the point, okay?

So study the Trinity table and the plurality study.

So I'm still waiting for verses that say that Jesus is God Almighty, He was saved. Here's another one then for Jesus I'm going to right now. You haven't presented him yet. I'm going to show you where Jesus is God Almighty right now, okay? With the scriptures.

All right? Cool.

Now you need to write these down.

Okay. Right, I got my pen. Psalm one sixteen four Okay. Psalm 116.4 says that Jesus is God. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Just write these verses down and I'll explain them.

So the first one is Psalm one sixteen four All right. The second one is first Corinthians one verse two.

Okay. 1 Corinthians 1:2 says that Jesus is God. Dude, dude, look, you're going to focus on one thing at a time. It's sequential.

Okay, I am. I need to explain them to you. First is write them down, the addresses.

Next, I'll explain how to use them.

So you write them down, then I'll explain them.

Okay. The f the phrase in Psalm 116.4 says Call upon the name of Yahweh. Call upon the name of the Lord. It's a phrase it's in reference only to God Almighty. Call upon the name of Yahweh.

That phrase is translated by the Jews into the Greek in the Septuagint. which is a Greek translation of the Old Testament done about two hundred years BC. They translate the Hebrew phrase into the Greek phrase call upon the name of the Lord. The phrase, call upon the name of the Lord, is used of Jesus. in 1 Corinthians 1.2.

everyone everywhere who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus. The phrase call upon the name of the Lord is in reference to God Almighty only. Paul applies it to Jesus.

Now Go on my website. And look up the the article, Call on the Name of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 1.2, it's a long article, but you don't have to read the whole thing. But that's what'll help you.

Okay. So my my pastor has has teachers that Um That that that it's not biblically accurate to uh say that Moses believed in the Trinity or the the Old Testament. Right, or they were teaching the Trinity. No, no, no. That's not correct.

I think he's wrong. Do you think he's wrong?

Okay, here's the thing. You don't say what Moses thought or not thought or believed or not believed unless it's specifically said.

So, when someone says to me, Well, Moses didn't teach the Trinity or understand it, I'd say, How do you know what Moses thought? I don't know what he thought. Are you saying you know what he thought? And I just say to them, there's no evidence that Moses was teaching the Trinity. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I think he's wrong. I agree with you. I think he's wrong. Okay. I've given you a lot of points.

Obviously all the Old Testament prophets believed in the Trinity. Because the trendy curve obviously they did.

Okay. Um I'm trying to teach you logic. You need logic. You can't say they're not. Obviously all the Old Testament prophets.

Keith. All the Old Testament prophets believed in God, we don't know to what extent they understood what the Trinity was. That's all I've got. I actually not know what they glue. We gotta go there.

Here's the break, okay?

Alright folks. Oh, alright.

So there you go. Wow. May the Lord bless you by his grace. I'll be back on here tomorrow. It's won't talk to you then.

Have a good one, everybody. God bless.

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