Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome. Oh, there we go, everybody. Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. If you want, you can give me a call as usual.

The number is 877-207-2276. Now, I'm using a new headset right now. I'm going to make sure everything's okay because people have complained about the noise level or the sound level.

So it's a brand new set and it's hooked up. Hopefully, everything's good. Everything sounds good, I'm hoping.

They can give me some feedback and that'll be that. All right, now, if you want to give me a call as usual, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call.

And if you are interested in emailing me, you can do that as well. It's easy. Just dial that number. I mean, dial that number.

Just put the email address in as info at CARM.org and put in the subject line radio comment or radio question and everything should be fine. All right, so making sure... I'm not sure what's going on there. It should have worked.

The COMREX, I mean, that COMREX is fine. All right, so I released an article today and I'm prepping for another article, which is why I'm researching metaphor of all things, believe it or not. So I went and did this research.

So it's really interesting. Let's see. And I wanted to know what kind of metaphors are used by Jesus himself and what he says about himself. A metaphor is a figure of speech that's used as a term or a phrase like Jesus is called the door. It's a metaphor. He's the door. Okay.

He's the way. Things like this. This is a metaphoric language.

And I found quite a few. I put in 12 that Jesus used of himself. He said he's the Alpha Omega, the bread of life, bridegroom, the door, the good shepherd, light of the world, living water, the rock, things like that. And then I did research on what the apostles called Jesus metaphorically, what metaphors that they use. And so advocate, cornerstone, firstfruits of the resurrection, firstborn of all creation, foundation, King of Kings, the rock, things like this. And then, just to really kind of round it off, I did some research on Old Testament examination or Old Testament metaphoric use of Christ. So anointed King. And I found this in Isaiah 42 and fulfillment in John 8 and things like this.

He's the bronze serpent, the Passover lamb, the prophet like Moses, just various things, the rock that gives water. And so I found, I think, let's see, 12, 12, 24, and then seven. So I found quite a few. All right.

Found 31. Now, why am I talking about this? Because in John chapter six, in John chapter six, there's the issue of, okay, that explains it that way, rumble. In John chapter six, Jesus says that he's the bread. What does it mean when he says he's the bread?

How is he referencing that? And so I'm going through this looking at the issue of the bread, because the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox will say that the bread is his body, which is literal. And the wine is literally his blood. And so what I did was I went through it.

I haven't finished it yet, but I'm going through looking and arriving at a contextual analysis. And it's really interesting because he is speaking symbolically. It is so clear that he's doing that symbolically. It's not literal bread that came out of heaven, of course, but he's referring to himself as the bread that came out of heaven. And it's in reference to something that the Jews had said earlier about him, about Jesus talking about the food that they came to eat and that you can eat.

He gives true food. So I'm going to do some more research on it, and I think I've got a good argument that Jesus was just speaking metaphorically and not literally, as they like to say. Now, why is that important? Because when they worship the bread after it's been consecrated, metaphor is not literal. They then are committing adultery.

I mean, idolatry, excuse me. So there you go. There's that information. And let's get to Patrick from North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You are on the air. Oh, hi, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. So what do you got, man?

What's up? OK, now, it takes two people to do a water baptism, correct? The one doing it, the one being baptized, yes. OK, so which person is following the Matthew 28, 19 command? Which one of the people? What do you mean, which one is following the command?

They both are. Well, no, because the command is, therefore, go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them. So one person is making a disciple, the other person is becoming a disciple, so would it be true that the one giving the baptism is following the command? Yeah, yeah, in that sense, yes.

OK, what about it? Well, a lot of people think that water baptism is when you go down in the water, you know, you die and then you come up out of the water. But that wouldn't make sense if the person giving the baptism is doing that, not the person getting baptized. In Acts chapter 8, at the end of the chapter, the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip both go down into the water. They both come up out of the water.

So that necessitates, I'm not sure, I mean, I'm trying to follow you here. But Philip did not baptize him in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yeah, he did. That's how it's done, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, yeah. But it doesn't say that in Scripture in Acts 8, it just says they both went down and he got baptized, but my main point is, I don't believe in water baptism, I believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the question I asked you makes sense. It takes two people to do a water baptism, and only one person is following the command. Wow.

Wow. Look, Patrick, you've failed to see what the Scriptures teach about the issue of baptism in the water and the application of it, and so it says in Acts 10, 44-48, the Holy Spirit fell upon the people, et cetera, the gift of the Holy Spirit was there, and Peter says no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized. So that is the water baptism that's taught in Acts chapter 10.

That's what's going on. And the formula is in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that's how you do it. No, because at Cornelius' house with Peter, when he said what stops these men from getting water, he was acting like a Jew, so he was bringing back the old custom ceremonial washing. No, he wasn't. He gave them a ceremonial washing, not a believer's bathroom. Patrick, Patrick, no, he wasn't. No, he wasn't. You apparently have the inability to be able to read the text and believe the text is clearly teaching.

That's what it says. They got water to be baptized. But in Galatians 2, 14, Paul opposes Peter for that reason, because Peter was wrong when he water baptized them, and that's why Paul opposed Peter. Okay, we're just going to move along, Patrick. We've had so many conversations over the years, and I'm sorry, but ladies and gentlemen, for those of you who don't know, we've talked, I can't tell you how many times, countless times, in different venues, on radio, in different chat rooms, and things like this, and Patrick refuses to submit to the Word of God in this issue, and we're not going to get anywhere. All right, so the next longest waiting person is Samuel from Kentucky. Samuel, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how you doing? We spoke a few times in the past. I really like your content, what you do.

Good, thanks. Yeah, so my question is, and you've talked about this a few times on your website, you know, it's kind of a common topic when it comes down to atheists, and it's more so figuring out the best way to approach the audience, and I'm very bold like you as well, you know, which they don't like, and that's fine. I really don't care, but the truth is true. So my whole thing is when you come across the common argument of God being all-powerful, all-knowing, you know, the common thing, and then when it comes up to the concept of free will, is the idea of free will based on, and it could be both, is it based on the fact that God knows all, and he knows what we're going to do every second of the day based on our choices, or is it more so God knows all because he knows our nature, and what we choose is still free will because we chose to do it. That doesn't mean God chose to do it because he didn't choose anything. He just, we have the ability to choose. So is it more so, is it all-knowing based on precision and absolute what we're going to do, or is it more so based on our nature and him knowing our nature that we have the ability to choose left or right or wherever we want to go?

All right, so this is a difficult question to answer without kind of slowly getting into stuff, okay? Right. So, okay, so we're talking about the issue of God's foreknowledge and why he knows things, and theologians have discussed this. What's the reason that God knows all things? Now, it's not that they are saying that they have it all figured out, but let's just work, and here's an illustration I'd give. So you take a piece of paper, and the paper is white. There's nothing on it, no lines. The whiteness represents nothing. There's nothingness.

There's nothing there. In the middle, though, however, is a dot. That dot represents God, and so God is the only thing existing.

This is before the universe is made. You take a pencil, and you just do a squiggly line out from the dot, do 50 squiggly lines outwards to the edge of the paper in different directions. Each one of those squiggly lines is something God knows about how the universe is going to behave in every detail.

Now, there could be a million squiggly lines, but we'll just use 50. So these squiggly lines just represent a potentiality of a universe with how God interacts, makes things work and not work, and he knows everything that will occur on that line because it can't exist at this point. It only exists in the mind of God. Each one of these potentialities exists only in the mind of God.

They're not actualized. So let's just say we have 50. We could have 100.

We have 1,000. It doesn't matter. So then if we were to take any line that's a potential, and we're to say, okay, in this line, we're just focused down, and there's this guy making choices. The only reason he could make choices on that line, which isn't even existing yet, is just a potentiality of what God would know. The only way he could make any choice is if God actualized that line, that particular event, series of events.

And everything on that line in every area is known by God because God knows all things actual as well as potential. And so when we get back to the break, we'll talk a little more about this. Okay, so hold on.

Okay, buddy. And we'll talk about this. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want, give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Let's get back on with Sam from Kentucky.

You still there? Okay, so let me continue with this analogy. We're almost done. The point I'm trying to make is that no matter how many lines are drawn, each one represents what God knows and could happen in any set of circumstances in the universe. He brings into existence one of them. One of the theories is that's how he knows, because he knows everything, because he relates to time differently than we do. And since he relates it now differently than we do, then he's able to, well, let's just say know exactly whatever different potentialities and combinations of things would exist in his own mind, and he would just choose which one's going to be. And in that line, we can have free will, because the sovereignty of God is such that we can't have free will that's independent of God.

Now, let me explain something else. So, there's a doctrine called aseity, so God is ase, ase. He's ase because he has aseity. What that means is that God by nature is non-contingent. He is not dependent on anything at all. Everything that he knows is what he knows because he's God. He has all knowledge about himself. His, his aseity means that he doesn't depend on anything, and the characteristics of his nature don't depend on anything, except for him. I mean, there's part of what he is. One of his attributes is omniscience, that he knows all things. So, we can't say that omniscience is not part of God. It's part of his nature. He just knows all things.

Now, here's a, I'm going to see if I can word this right. If God, I'll exaggerate, if God looks into the future to learn something, then his knowledge depends on something outside of himself, and that would violate the consistency between his omniscience and his aseity. If, on the other hand, his melanists, and the issue of logical progression and logical and temporal knowledge and things like this, we'll get into all that, if they say that he just knows what free will choices are going to be in all potentialities, and that that knowledge is eternal, then he's, they're still saying to some degree that the knowledge that he has of them is of what they would do counterfactually in different situations. Then that would still mean his knowledge is dependent in some part upon the foreseen events and choices, and that would also risk the issue of his aseity related to his omniscience. So, it makes more sense to say that his knowledge is part of his eternal knowledge of himself and all potentialities that he can imagine and think of, and it's not dependent on anything foreseen because he doesn't have to create anything, and the actuality of a situation doesn't depend, excuse me, the actuality of something does depend on him, but the knowledge doesn't depend on externals. This is hard to explain, but I hope that makes sense.

No, it does. I mean, because I have the conversations with a lot of folks, and their whole idea is, you know, they create like the simplistic argument of, well, God's all knowing, and he understands what I'm going to do, then I've been condemned since birth, and I'm like, well, there wouldn't be an option for you to refute condemnation if that was the case. So, it's more so me understanding, like, you know, it seems more like, well, you know, God's is not in the center, and he's kind of making this spider web of all these potentialities, you know, it's more so because he knows of all its will, one of those you're going to do, you know, what it means, you're going into picking this while we're asking, like, is it more so precise, like it's just one line, and you're going to absolutely do this one thing, or is it the plethora of ideas that exist, and because of the nature of human beings and how we are, there's nothing that God is missing within these scribbles, you know, one of these is going to fit, there's nothing outside of that, that's, you know, that's going to be new under the sun for God, like one of these, you're going to do, because I know how you operate, you know, that's why I was asked, is it more so precise, or is it more so optional, you know, because he knows everything that's there. John Defterios Yes, and hold on, I'm going to cough, I'm dealing with a little bit of chest congestion, so you see this, you're on the right track, and I hope I am too, and this is a tough one, this is what I've been thinking about for years, and this dot in the middle illustration, swiggly line, I like what you say, you know, the spider web of potentialities that God just knows, and then there's questions about those things, so I like to think about these things, I like to think and wonder about them and see if I can think how God works, and one time I got close, I think I got close, but then I heard a pssst sound in my head and I woke up three days later, you know, trying to figure out God, it didn't quite work out for me, but you know, this is tough stuff. Yeah, and that's why I juggle, and FYI, this doesn't have me juggle away from God whatsoever, I ask questions because, as we should, and it's just more so to understand, because it's like, well, does God know I'm having this conversation? People dig that deep, you know, like, well, I'm talking to you, not you, but I'm talking to like the atheist, and I'm like, well, does God know that you're dismissing him right now?

Like, we already know the outcome based on what you're doing, or is it based on the potential that we have, because there isn't anything outside of choice that God is not familiar with, because of the choices that exist overall, God knows that, you know, I don't, it would be hard for me to, it would be hard for me to accept the idea that, understand, you understand this from the womb, but it'll be hard for me to understand and be like, well, God knows this baby was born is going to be 100% condemned, and there's not going to be any outcome or option that this person can choose, where it's like, well, well, because God already knows the choices, or there's no, there's no option for them not to do it, I'm confused on that, and that would be kind of strange, I'm like, I don't see God operating that way, you know, Well, we could throw, let's throw some more monkey wrenches into this, okay? Okay, so, God moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go, Proverbs 21, 1. He can do that. 20, verse 1 or 21? I've got to remember, I've got a lot of verses in my head, I've got it mixed up sometime, let me go and check, I always want to remember, these things, right?

And, yeah, 21, 1. And so, he does that, but here's another thing, here's another thing, Paul the Apostle is a good example, in Acts chapter 9, does God know how to bring people to faith? Yeah, he does. He knows what's necessary, because he knows all things, he knows how to bring anybody to the faith, I mean, he can, he knocked Paul the Apostle off his horse with a bright light and a voice out of the sky, and that's what it took for Paul. Well, what about you, what about me, what about the neighbor next door, what about the hardcore atheist, can God reach him? Of course he can't, all God's got to do is show his glory to him, and then, you know, the guy's on the ground, say, be God for me, Lord, you know, and all this stuff. So, here's the question, why doesn't he? Why doesn't he do it?

And, because he can. So, then we've got this question of, okay, so, in Adam, everybody dies, and that means they're all on the way to hell, and, you know, what God does is choose people out of that group to save, and he interacts with those, and does so for them. Oh, it gets hard. Hey, man, hold on, I've got another break, okay? Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Okay, sorry, we're having fun, like I say, sometimes we talk in the chat room, and, so, I was joking around, and I was saying to some people, I cleaned out my pantry, I started three days ago, it took me three days to do it, and some cupboard work, and, I mean, just, you know, you've been in the house 20 years. I found a cannon that was nine years past, just past exploration, just one, I mean, I found a few that were a few years, but one that was nine, and I was saying that I got a friend named Bill, so I was gonna have him give it to Bill and see, watch him eat it, see what happens. Anyway, we're having fun in the chat, and to get back on with Sam from Kentucky. All right, Sam, you still there, buddy?

Yes, sir. All right, so, I know we talked a lot about this. This is a topic I've had discussions with atheists and others and Christians and stuff a lot, and people, they want to say that it's not compatible with human free will and God's sovereignty.

We, if God knows what we're going to do, then we don't have free will, because we can't change our choices when it comes time to make a choice, because God knows we're going to choose it, so it's set because he knows we're going to do it, but they make the mistake of thinking that his knowledge is what causes it, but that's not the case, so they make a category error and they mess up. So, we had this kind of discussion many times, many, many times. So, anyway, you know, yeah. Anyway, I think it helps out a lot.

It helps out a whole lot. I mean, it's just more so for me. It's always the approach, right? It's always, you know, like, how do we present these ideas or these arguments, because part of my mind is like, well, you know, like, you know, me seeing within the scripture, you know, God teaches that, you know, it shows that God doesn't change, but it's like, at the same time, it's like, well, are his plans, are the plans that God made, are they always fixed in the midst of knowing that free will choices has to determine the flexibility of the future at some point, based on what we do? Right. And it's just more so, okay, and it's going back to the original, like, okay, does God know that precise choice from the beginning? Or is it again, like we said, is it this plethora of spider web or this, right, you know, these probabilities and possibilities that nothing outside of these exists is just these, which is why God knows everything.

And it's just whatever one we choose to do. And that's what makes the all knowing part true. Not necessarily, you know, this is one line, every one line is the exact answer every single time.

And that's what I think. That's why I think it I think it is the plethora feels like it's a plethora wouldn't make it wouldn't make any sense for it to be anything outside of that, to me simply because it doesn't take away the free will of choice, but it would make me question the overall will, you know, why condemn? Or, you know, it's more so an idea of why I condemn the individual that, you know, God understands it's only option, but yet we have everyone has the option to redeem themselves as all men have sinned and fall short of God. So it's like, okay, well, we should all have the option to repent and be better. And there's more is more so like, well, God knows this person is not going to repent. So they, I know what's gonna happen with them.

So next next person, it's going to be next next person. I don't, I don't really see it being that way, particularly when I see it being the options and what you brought up. So yeah, that's, it seems to be it.

And that's, I think it's gonna be like a forever conversation. But I think, yeah, I think you could be down the head. But I think it's more so that way. I don't think it's, it would seem like it would seem like God has a lot more control outside of the free will around even though he's not making that choice, but he already knows it. And it's like, well, that that would be a little different.

I don't think that with me personally, I don't think it seems like you don't even forget. Well, now think about this. Okay, we had nobody waiting. So this is a good conversation. Now think about this, the word ordination, God ordained.

So in one of these lines, and we take a super good microscope, we look down that line, and we can see a guy walking. And he comes to a sidewalk, left or right, you make a choice. And so we can watch that choice. It's a free will choice, right?

And he does that. But it can only be made if God is the ultimate cause of all things, and that he made the universe, the galaxy, the planet, etc. And that's why he's there. And so the choice that he makes is a part of the sovereign plan of God. So every choice we make is worked after the counsel of God's will Ephesians 111. This is how we we say he ordains everything even our free will choices. Well, people sometimes say, well, then you're saying he causes them.

Well, if he can, if he wants, he can do what he wants. He can work into our heart and mind. He can, he can do things and cause us to believe something. He opened the mind to, of Lydia, to believe the word spoken by Paul in Acts 16, 14, and Luke 24, 45.

Jesus opened the mind of the people to believe the things that he was teaching and speaking on as scripture. So he can do this stuff to us. He moves the heart of the king where he wishes to go, Proverbs 21, 1. So he's in control. And the thing that gets me is, well, then why doesn't he work this into everybody? And that's a question that I have been wrestling with a long time because he can bring anybody to the faith that he desires. Why doesn't he?

In fact, if he wants all to be saved in 1 Timothy 2, 4 and 2 Peter 3, 9, why is it that he speaks in parables according to Mark 4, 10-12, which he says is so it'll not be forgiven. Well, why? Well, here's another illustration to throw something out. There's a prison with a thousand men in it. And every one of these prisoners is guilty and every one of them belongs condemned, no doubt. And so a really powerful guy who can satisfy the law and pay the penalty and the price for their crimes goes in to the prison and picks, let's just say a hundred people. He picks them because whatever reason.

So is he not good for not picking more or is he good for picking those? He didn't have to do anything because they all belong where they're going. That's the condemnation representation at Adam that we all die at Adam, 1 Corinthians 15, 22 and Romans 5, 18 and Romans 5, 19. And so for God, like this guy to go into the prison and then does what's necessary to redeem just those, that's his business. And that's the action of his grace. And he can, you know, he can do what he wants. So this is an illustration, but he grants that we have faith, Philippians 1, 29, grants us repentance, 2 Timothy 2, 25.

And so he's, and it says, as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed, Acts 13, 48 and 2 Thessalonians 2, 13 says he has chosen us from the beginning for salvation. All right. Well, here's a question. Oh, why doesn't he choose more? I don't know. And all these questions bugged me. And these are the questions I can't answer.

I can't figure out. That's why I said, you know, a while back, I got close and my brain went, you know, and it's like, is it not working? So these are questions I think about. Yeah.

Yeah. I appreciate it, man. I think, again, I know I'm gonna come back on. I have, I have a lot of deep questions typically, um, you know, like people with a mind like yours, I feel like it's, you know, so I would have definitely take up everybody at the time, but I wouldn't definitely get this question out the way today, but that was, that was, that was how I was looking at things. I was talking to have a five-year-old daughter and, uh, and it was interesting.

Thank you. My wife gave her the option of a hundred dollars or big bowl of ice cream. And I told her that she's going to get the ice cream.

But that, but that, but that concept is similar to what my question is and what we're talking about. I'm like, why would we know that you would pick the ice cream over the a hundred dollars? And, and it goes back to like, well, did I know overall because of the nature of this child, what she was going to pick or was it for certain and absolute, you know, and absolute entirety that, that was the, I am so glad you brought that up. Okay.

Now I got to talk about this. Okay. Um, so I ask people what's free will and they'll give me different answers and I'll say, well, free will is the ability to make a choice consistent with your nature because that definition includes God. So if God gets me an adjustment there on the audio, if, uh, if because it's with your nature, because see that your daughter, she, the reason she chose, uh, ice cream over a hundred dollars is in her nature. She doesn't, she's not mature enough, wise enough, understanding enough to know the relationship. She's going to ice cream, you know, and that's it.

That's good. And then that's fine because it's consistent with a five-year-old understanding of things. So free will, she made a free will choice is consistent with her nature and just like God, the same thing. He can't choose to do evil. He can only choose that which is consistent with his nature and he's holy. And so here's a question then in light of that, what does the Bible say is the nature of the unbeliever because his choices can only be consistent with the unbelievable with his nature. And the Bible says, I can quote the addresses, but I'll just skip them for now. He's a slave of sin.

Doesn't do any good. Doesn't seek for God hearts, desperately wicked, deceitful, cannot receive spiritual things. So this is why the Bible says he has to be granted faith and granted repentance. Well, my question is, and this is what bugs me and I've asked God and I prayed about it. Well, God, um, how can we not saving more? And that's just the question I ask and when I ask it, I'm careful to ask it. I'm not complaining.

Why not more Lord than my place. You know, I like to say, as my friend Bill McKeever said, we are in sales, not production. So that's good.

That's good. And you know, we've got to go. There's a break.

There's a break, buddy. We get another call or two. Why don't you call back in a few minutes? Okay.

We'll get, get back in line. We'll talk again. Okay.

Do a lot of good stuff. All right, man. Hey, God bless. Call back. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right.

And welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy. 877-207-2276. You can also send me an email.

That's easy to do as well. And that's, uh, info at karm.org info at C A R M dot O R G and put a subject line radio comment or radio question, something like that. All right. Let's get on the air with John from Ohio. Hey, John, welcome, man.

You're on the air. John. Hello. Hello. How are you doing, ma'am? I'm sorry.

I just want to see you. I was, uh, my name's Tom, not John. I'm sorry about that. That's okay. Sorry.

Um, while I was, uh, listening to you and the gentleman previous, I didn't get everything because I just came in from work. Uh, but my, uh, my point of view, what I've seen in this is that, uh, that, you know, he uses everybody good and bad, you know, and to, to, to, for his, for his good, for his, you know, it's for his glory. Yep.

So that's why I think he just uses and, you know, you're, you're, even though you're reaching out there, you know, as a Christian, reaching out to these people, that's, that's what you're supposed to do is you want you to grow like that and build you like a, what do you call a, he says, uh, like some kind of perfect, uh, gym. Yeah. So I just, that's my perspective on it.

I, I cut in, I came in in the middle of this, so I don't know. It's a really good conversation. And I love having this convo because for one, it helps me get practiced in articulating ideas.

And the other is it shows people I don't have all the answers and I certainly don't. And that there are theologians out there and they, they wonder about it and they ask questions and, uh, yet the scriptures are what teaches us these things. And, uh, the scriptures teach about the sovereignty of God, and I've got lots of verses about it. And yet at the same time, we're free. You know, it just blows me away.

How does it all work? And I don't know, but I know that God is beyond us. God makes sense of it.

God's one who knows. And so though I try it with my feeble mind to figure it out, he's already got it all worked out. Even my feeble attempt to figure out what he wants, what he's doing was already figured out by him a long time ago about me, you know, or dating that I would think about it. It's like, well, Kate getting a headache now, you know? Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

That's why you're there. I mean, do you have the, do you have the minute? Sure. If not, there was a, uh, at church, I've been trying to, it's been going through my head too, is did Christ, um, did Christ, the flesh, knowing the generations all the way back to fix the problem of sin at the point where, uh, uh, um, the dog, um, the, the third son, um, Jim, am I right? Okay.

Uh, Adam and Eve, Eve had, uh, they, it was a Jim was the third. Okay. Oh, Adam. Oh, okay. Yeah. Quick. I'm sorry.

I must've got the line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was next. Cause you know, Kane was gone.

He was, yeah. He ain't going to have no more, you know, he's not gonna, his seed is. So what I'm saying is, did he correct everything by putting it, was it possible that he had put a, um, the start of Jesus Christ, the flesh of Jesus Christ to come? Cause eventually Christ comes, you know, with Mary, you see where I'm going, where you've got, you follow all this generation of people all the way down. Did he keep that in line?

Cause he had, remember, and I don't know if you've seen it on the, and I don't know how important, if I was right or wrong this, but the, the KJ's version against the new KJ's, they took even out of, uh, I think it was, uh, Exodus four, three, or where, uh, he says, even my only son, remember that? Yeah. I don't know about that verse throw to the ground, um, access four, three, but, uh, anyway, yeah. So this, uh, this topic is a, is a, it's an interesting one and I try and find ways to illustrate it for people so that it can make more sense to them.

Not that I've, I've got the only way and the only way to understand it, but I do try. That makes sense. Yeah.

I'm going through it right now. That's the same thing. Cause it looks like it's there, but that you don't, you know, until you really break it down and you follow it all the way back. I mean, what's that generation was he did? Did he do it there at that point? Remember he said, he says, he says something and, uh, began, uh, to correct, uh, correct sin. Was it started there or was it started at the way Christ was born or, you know, uh, was conceived not conceived. Okay.

I'm not quite following you at this point, but, um, yeah, this, this, that's okay. This issue of ordination, predestination, causation, different levels. It's something that Christians have wrestled with and the ability to understand concepts can have a varying reasons they can or can't, uh, IQ training, uh, education, combination of all of those things. Uh, and some people get greater concepts than others can get.

And it doesn't mean to right or wrong. It's just this discussion goes on and on and on throughout the years. And it's, it's not done yet. It's going to continue to go. It's just the way it is. It's going to continue. And, and I try and figure it out because people ask me questions. Yeah. So many millions of people have been through this probably already.

And it just hasn't come out to prove it hasn't come out yet. Well, yeah, the answer, you know, well, it rests in the mind of God. And he has told us certain things in, in scripture about stuff and his sovereignty and that's it. So a lot there. All right. I thank you for your help. All right, buddy. God bless.

All right. So in light of that conversation, we have nobody waiting right now. Um, there's some interesting verses in Job 37, 13, it says whatever for whether for creation, excuse me, correction or for his world or for loving kindness, he causes it to happen. Proverbs, excuse me, oh man, Psalm 130, five, six, whatever the Lord pleases, he doesn't have it on earth. Proverbs 16, one, the plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord. Uh, Proverbs 16, 33, the lot is cast into the lap, but it's every decision is from the Lord. Daniel 4, 35, uh, all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but he does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth. Jeremiah 10, 23, I know, oh Lord, that a man's way is not in himself, nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.

These are these verses like this and I go, okay, that's what it says. I'm gonna try and figure it out. Oh, and so I have these discussions with people and what I try and do is develop illustrations like the piece of paper, white, you know, piece of paper, little screen lines to break things down in such a way that people can, they can get these concepts. And sometimes it works really well and sometimes it doesn't work really well. And so I field test these concepts to see if it, if it makes sense to me, but does it make sense to others?

Because maybe I'm missing something. Uh, so anyway, it's just what I'm trying, you know, and, um, and how it works in free will, because when I think of this, this topic, I think of ordination, predestination and levels of causation, ultimate proximate and efficient. Then I think of the nature of human free will in, inside of fallenness and outside of fallenness. And I think of also, I'm relating all this all at once to the issue of God granting faith and granting repentance and granting the become to Christ. Well, how does all of this work?

And then it's just to throw a little bit of, uh, of, uh, fuel on the fire. Jesus, God in flesh, he had free will. And yet everything he did was ordained from the foundation of the world, because we know Ephesians one 11 says, God works all things after the council of his will. And yet it also says, Jesus says, I'm gonna read it to you, John five 19. Okay.

This is interesting. John five 19. Jesus says, uh, truly I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself unless it is something he sees the father doing now he can do nothing of himself except what he sees the father doing.

I think I'll address that in a second. And then in John five 30, I could do nothing of my own initiative. And when you go to John six 37, excuse me, John six, uh, 30, nine, 38, I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of who sent me. So Jesus came to do the will of the father. He could do nothing of his own initiative, except that what he saw as a father to yet he has free will. Now, this is an example of absolute perfect submission of the son to the father.

How much more are we to subject our wills to the father as well? You know, if my Lord came to me and if he said, Matt, I'm going to give you one wish. What do you want?

You know, you can have any desire, whatever it is. I've, I've thought about this over the years and there, and I finally came up with an answer while back. There's only one answer I would give.

My wish would be that you Lord decide what you want for me, not me. That's it. I just don't have the wisdom. I don't have the scope of knowledge. I don't know. And I would just maybe throw in a hint as long as I'm with you.

That's it. That's what I want, but it doesn't matter to me because I don't have all that knowledge, but God does. And I want to be able to do what God wants me to do. And I want to live for him.

And I don't even know what the best way to do that is. So my freedom of will, I want to submit to him. If I could, so to speak, not have any free will, if I could resign it to God and where it was completely, God just says, do this. Yes, sir. Yes, my Lord. Just do it. Even though I could choose not to, I wish I had that ability all the time, just to serve him and just to do what he desires and to relinquish my own freedom in that sense.

That's what I want to do. As I study all these things, I find it very interesting that all of these topics come together about foreknowledge and free will. I'm just going to throw some things out at you guys. Think about this. Now look, here's the concept. If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C. Let me say it again.

If A equals B and B equals C, well then A equals C. That's called the law of proper inference, or I'll leave it at that. So here's a question. It says in Ephesians 1.4 that he chose us in Christ and he predestined us. So the chosen ones are predestined.

So that's A. The chosen ones are predestined. Then you go to Romans 8.29 where it says, those whom he foreknew, he also predestined. So the foreknown ones are the predestined ones, but it's also the chosen ones are also the predestined ones. Therefore the chosen ones are also the foreknown ones. It's not everybody who's predestined in this sense or foreknown in this sense. So I look at this and I think, okay, that makes sense.

It says he chose us from the beginning for salvation. I'm thinking, wow, how does it all work? I try and come up with the answers sometimes.

I hope I didn't hurt you guys' brains too much thinking about this. But hey, that's what we do. May the Lord bless you.

There's the music. I'm out of here. And by His grace, we're back on there tomorrow. And Lord willing, we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, everyone. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.