Domestic Abuse Crisis Part 2

Woodrow Crowell here. When you train one pastor in Ecuador, some donor friends are standing by to train a second pastor. Call 833-443-5467 or go online at trainapaster.com.

Every gift counts and now every gift is doubled. trainapaster.com. Share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and choosing the Truth Podcast Network. I'm Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Well, we are so glad you joined us this afternoon. We are getting ready to do part two of Domestic Violence Abuse and Crisis, if you look at the title. Will's a roll of his eyes. Will, you came up with the title, so hey, the important subject is that we want to get more information out to you as our listening audience and also to help you identify some of the signals.

And then oftentimes we wonder, what do we do to help someone when they're in the middle of this type of situation? So Patty, it's good to have you back with us. Well, thanks for inviting me back. You let me come back and talk some more. I appreciate that. We realized the last show you had a lot left to say. Absolutely.

We got to get it in. Always good to see your smiling face. Likewise, sir.

Likewise, likewise. So this in this show, listener, we want to concentrate on the abuser. And so when we left last week's show, we were talking about those who were abused. Now we're going to turn the tables a bit and talk about the abuser. So Patty is going to share some not only experiences and maybe some testimonials, but also what what does a abuser what do they think about what leads up to the abuse when you listen to some of the women who are coming into the center or sharing their story with you over the crisis line?

You know, what are some of those things? And because we might have a listener out there who might be going through this. And so we at the end of the show, we're going to tell you where you can go perhaps to get some assistance and or if you want to call the crisis hotline.

So share with us a bit, Patty, if you will. And then we'll go to what do people have about what an abuser is like. So we all of course, I think we talked last time about we think it's somebody who's, you know, already a criminal who's just a violent person.

A lot of people think, oh, he's fine, as long he's not drinking or doing drugs. Well, what we've learned through the years is that the alcohol or the substance abuse, if that's involved, okay, or seems to be involved, really isn't the problem. It's just like with our, you know, in the past, that have others, you know, they get loose and they decide they have no filter.

And so what's already inside comes out. So it's never because they're drug users or alcohol users, that just makes it worse. It exactly exacerbates the situation. And we think that they don't come from, you know, middle class or upper class places, but they do, you know, everybody thinks, oh, it's, you know, people who are on the other side of the tracks or something, you know, that was years ago. And we've, we've, we know, it crosses all socio economic levels, all ethnicities, exactly, it really comes down to it's a pattern of behavior. It's, and we see it also as a spiritual issue. So I've also heard people say, Well, it's a it's a condition of their heart, if they would just give their heart to the Lord.

No, it just doesn't work that way either. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the issues for some. So really, what it boils down to is where, where do they come from in their mind.

And so always, we have to look back to childhood to see where things may be started there. Not all abusers do come from abusive homes. However, they have a need and it's an unmet need. They have a very, very low self esteem, yet you would not know that with some of them. They're so cocky and confident sometimes and you think, Oh, man, they got it together or, you know, they're so strong, no, no, no. And so they're looking for that object to make them feel better. And the only way they feel better is if they control it. And so it starts to escalate from from that that point on. And so people who feel like they have to control other human beings is where that, you know, comes from. And they oftentimes struggle with I don't know how to stop this.

So I worked with abusers for a while and did abuser treatment programs. And so it's very interesting where they came from. And, you know, how they believe that it was all okay, what they were doing, really. So I will tell you this, even if they were not active Christians, people profess to be Christians. Yeah, we know that.

And aren't actually walking. That's right, right. And, and, you know, if you've lived in the south, it's the Bible belts, everybody knew who God and Jesus was, you know, they just didn't want to live it thinking, you know, right before the days they die, they're gonna go get saved, right? Yeah, that's kind of how it worked in the south here. And so oftentimes, they would use that as I'm the king of my castle.

My family is my property. And God said that it is so. And we heard that from a lot of men.

Wow. Because that was their way to justify their entitlement. And that is the mentality.

And the entitlement was to treat their wives any or their children in any way they wanted to. Yeah, so there's children in the home, they will sometimes abuse children, but not always. Right. Okay. So I have a really interesting story about abuser treatment. Okay, please do.

Yes. So we were trying to figure out what some of the best ways because of getting to these guys, because there's not a lot of, there's some curriculums out there. But you know, these guys were court ordered.

And I didn't want to come to see us, you know, and it was a male and a female co facilitator, both had a mental health counseling background. And so I love a whiteboard. Everything's about a process.

If you can get people to journey with you in a process, you can get them to point B. And so I thought, well, we'll do this. So I put up on the board. How many of you have children, they raise their hands, how many of you have boys, they raise their hands, give me their names, and I wrote their names down. And you guys have girls, and I wrote their names down. Now, and abuse a treatment program, they use very graphic language. And so I had to learn how to repeat that language, I go home and want to wash my mouth.

You know, but I would have to repeat it back to them, right, you know. And so I said, so we're going to take Johnny over here. And he's now 1820. And we're going to marry him to Susie over here. And Susie is now 18 or 20. And he gets to beat her up.

And, and I just went through all the things. Well, the daddy of the daughter didn't think that was a really good idea. And he would get angry. And I'm like, No, but you said females are like this, I have a list over here of what you said females are. But now she is too. And they and there was always a light bulb, at least, you know, a portion of the room that would go off.

And they would get it. But, but that was that was something that they were raised to believe that women needed to be this, that or the other and in their place. And so when we started talking about the children changed a little bit, did you have a high percentage? Or do you experience a high percentage of these? We'll start with the ladies that are that are in your center? Did they grow up?

Do you measure this? Or do you ask these questions? Did they grow up without a father in the home? Or even if they did, that would say there's a vacancy there, right? So they had a void in their life that may have put them in a position to be the recipient or allow this type of treatment to be given to them and treated that way. And then on the other side, if they had a father home was the father abusive, and it just transcended into them as an adulthood look like we talked about the last show. That's just kind of what they expected marriage to be about, because that's what they they saw.

Mm hmm. Yeah, we don't track that percentage, because it's not a question that's beneficial to getting them through the trauma, right? That becomes what happens if you if they stay in a support group, or they go to a counselor.

And then you can kind of get to the core group when they come to us there. They're in an emergency and trauma state of mind. So we're not usually asking that question. But it does come up.

And I can tell you in my, my counseling years, that I would say probably either the father not in the home or the father participating in an abuser, you know, that that percentage is probably pretty high. Either one or the other. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So then it goes back to earlier conversations, the importance of the of a heavenly, godly man leading the family, not dictating the family, but leading the family and being present in the home will like we've talked on many of our shows.

Yeah. And it takes it takes a person who really wants to make change. But see, if you there is there is a point in which a individual go, you know, in in their abuse. And if if you speak to them biblical things, it just won't register.

It just simply will not register. It's it's like, they take a knob and they turn it off. So there are steps like Patty mentioned, that you have to take, but you have to understand where they are, because you don't want to give them anything above, because they won't, that won't be able to register with them, because that's not where they are, right? You have you have to bring it down to their level and understand. And I think this is where in Proverbs chapter 19, and I believe it's verse 2021. It speaks about an individual who wants to listen to wise counsel. If you do this, it's going to stay with you for latter days. Now, that's a promise. That's a godly promise. But again, in a in a crisis situation, you that that won't mean anything to them.

Yeah, of course not. You know, so yeah, I thought it was very interesting in the four years that I did abuser treatment programs. So talking about where they come from, there were two particular individuals, one, who and I had a lot of respect for them, I actually had to pray about doing that. You know, because I'd worked with victims for so long. And and as a female, you know, I had to be ready for whatever came my way, you gotta have, you gotta have some tough skin and strong back and, and be strong in your faith to be able to do that. So I had to pray about it beforehand. And anyway, turned out to be one of the best experiences I've ever had was working with the abusers, because it really confirmed what we already knew.

I just thought I wasn't sure what it would do. But there were two men in particular and one after I we'd been in his path of the treatment. He came to me and he said, I, I really don't need to be in here. I'm in the room.

I do not need to be in a group. And I said, Okay, how can I help you? Well, you know, I'm only five, four, and he's six, two, whatever, big guy. And he could have easily intimidated me, but he did not.

He was very, very respectful. And he said, I have gotten through the cracks of the court to get here. And he said, you need to know that I'm a homicidal person. And he said, if you guys don't have it, you need to get my records from my psychologist. He said, I have no business being in this treatment program, because it was just for people to try to change, you know, and sure enough, we got the records and he was a homicidal person. And then the second guy had gotten out of the penitentiary for several rapes for 15 years and landed in my group. So what do you do with a person like that? You just turn them back to the court. So you need to get a different program for this gentleman?

We try to help them find the right program. Because I guess that's the other piece of it, right? Is everybody's got the ability to be forgiven and everybody deserves a chance.

But these are two very bottom end of the barrel, if you will, and hit rock bottom. We'll come back to that here in just a moment. Thank you for joining us.

We'll be right back in just a few seconds. TAWCMM would love to have you join their community of men for breakfast every first and third Friday of every month. They have Bible discussions and fellowship after the best breakfast in town. The meeting location is at their gracious host church First Christian Church in Kernersville 1130 North Main Street in Kernersville.

They have a hard start at seven o'clock and a hard stop at eight o'clock. First time visitors eat for free. Join your hosts Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr. a black guy and a white guy. Affordable chiropractic in High Point as you might tell from their name affordable chiropractic even for the cash patient. Dr. Jeff Ricky has been caring for patients in High Point for 34 years physical therapy such as ultrasound and spinal decompression for disc conditions such as herniation comprehensive care for auto accident injury patients with no out of pocket expense.

Remember affordable chiropractic on West Lexington Avenue in High Point call 336-885-1987. Welcome back to man talk radio. We're here talking with Patti and she is giving us some extreme insight. I mean, I'm learning a lot here.

Well, I don't know about you. But I'm learning a lot here because this is a subject matter that's really, really sensitive to my heart. I know we've talked about, you know, women who like kidnapped and, you know, brought overseas and in the sexual slave trade and things like that. But this is sort of like nearer, if you will, to the heart because it's going on all of the time. It's going on every day, at every level, and at, you know, individuals who are white collar, blue collar, no collar at all, if you will, you know, and so we are talking about some of these issues, and we just want to get the listener, get them some help. But we're going to continue talking about the point Roy that you brought up right right at the break on what is it that an individual does?

What do they do? You know, once you you come into a situation with the an abuser, you know, and this abuser is wanting control. And I want to share a little story too. And I'm sure I'm sure Patty have heard this one. But I had an individual one time who came in, and he worked at a very low level position in his company. And people were always telling him what to do. And he come in, and he hear this all of the time, you can't do anything, right? You're going to remain in this position all of the time.

So when he went home, yeah, just transcended into his family, it transit into his family. So it was like, Okay, I may not have control here. And I may not be able to tell you what to do, because I'm at this level. But I'm going to tell this wife and these children what to do.

And if they don't do it, then I'm going to take that that step. So you know that that is something that occurs a lot because an individual again, they want to show that power and control. Absolutely. That's a good example. Yeah, that's an example of the masses.

You know, when we're not getting good care in our jobs, and we're not getting good care in our spiritual walk, and we don't have peace, and we have unrest, you know, any of us at stress levels that are just, you know, let's think about COVID. Exactly. Right. Exactly.

So there's been a question, has it gotten worse during COVID? Well, yes. But guess what, I can't get to us, because he's no longer employed. Or he's working remotely from home. And so we've had women, I was just talking with my victim advocate, she said, Yeah, this lady had to go hide in the bushes, just so she could make a call and hope that he didn't check her phone. Because they can't get to us, even though our numbers went up. We just know from a national perspective, and in our own state, that women can't can't get to us. So but going back to that, you know, thing about the question of, you know, where do these men come from?

And what puts them in that state? What I like to tell people, too, is they're people. So let's stop demonizing them. You know, we've got to come to a place that, as the body of Christ, we know how to help all of them.

You know, that's really what we should be doing. And the stories that I would hear from these men of where they came from, and the abuse that they experienced as children. My goodness, it's a no brainer where they end up. And they don't know how to love.

And women don't know how to receive love. And, you know, it's just just kind of a perpetual cycle just keeps going around and around. Yeah, yeah, Satan's done a number on everybody. And we know it's a spiritual battle.

Yes. Because we are we always talk about, you know, Ephesians 612, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness. This is what we're dealing, we're dealing with the unseen forces of evil. But but we see the results of what they're afflicting through the physical realm. So what what we've done is we've taken the super out of the natural. And we're operating simply from the natural standpoint. But we have to understand as believers, that that it's above that, you know, it's it's an unseen. And when the unseen starts working, it, it's manifested through the scene. Right?

Yeah. When I when I used to do some counseling, and even working with with the abusers, it wasn't hard to get it to manifest. When you when you know what you're talking to what you're talking with, it didn't take long for it to show itself because it's so confident that they're they're such a good deceiver. And once you figure it out, it's really interesting. When I teach people this, and then they start going out.

We're all like, don't go to the malls, don't go anywhere. Because then you start, you know, seeing things that you didn't recognize before, just how a man will hold her arm, or direct her into a room or direct her to sit down. And I mean, just do it. And it's terrible, but do it in church. It happens all the time. Oh, no, I've watched.

I've watched one one time. There was a hand around the neck. Oh, gosh, yes. Up over the back of the pew.

And just a, it was interesting, because there was always a sense of timidity with with the spouse with with the wife, but the husband's hand would always seem to be around her neck somewhere during the, during the service and often wondered if that was what if that was one of those signals, and how many times it was really in the front, not the back. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Different time of day or different day of the week. Absolutely. So Patty, I think I can't recall if it was on the last show, but we talked about once the abuse goes from verbal and emotional to physical, that there's a 75%. If I remember your probability that it could end in, if she leaves, if she leaves 75% probability that it's gonna murder could happen, I guess she could end up getting killed. So talk to us a little bit about that. Okay, because I know that maybe might have just withdrawn everybody that was listening that was thinking, I need to talk to somebody. I'm not gonna leave for sure now. But I think that's important, right?

Because it would be part of the decision process. So the person's well prepared, if they're getting ready, if they're going to leave that they know that they've really got to leave, right. So this is where the church can be such a big help. And we will and do come out to churches and and teach, especially staff or security teams, those kind of things. But you know, what, what, how can we help people? First of all, if she feels like she's going to need to leave, she needs to have a plan. And there needs and we've got it all laid out. You know, what are the things you need to make sure that you have so you know, I know there's a lot of people listening to this and, and I would just say you can go on our website and look at that plan.

I don't want to give our secrets. But they have to have a safety plan. And they need to know and be prepared for what they're going to do. Because typically, again, their support systems not available to them.

And then people in the body of Christ just don't believe them. And all you know, it's a heart matter. And y'all just need to reconcile good counseling, those kind of things. So she needs to do that. And then if, if she's going to leave, and she's got a good safety plan, she, her chances of him not stalking or coming back or, you know, getting the help that she's, she'll do so much better at being able to recover and and successfully leave, it takes a woman about an average of seven times leaving before she's actually either able to successfully leave, or she becomes a homicide victim. And what I mean by that, too, is the fact that, you know, she goes through all the things she should do a 50 B order, which is a civil protective order, which, you know, oftentimes still violate, but it's a paper trail, just all the things that she needs to be able to do to safely leave. And we as the body of Christ need to believe that what she's telling us is true. And err on the side of safety, you know, keep your personal opinions out of it, because he's a nice guy.

And, you know, he's a deacon, and he, you know, runs his own business. I don't know, you know, we have weird things that we think about people like, Oh, yeah, surely to goodness, he's, he's such a nice guy, you know, or she, I mean, we can do the opposite of that. And so Christian, so you know, to prevent that is just really about being educated, having a great support system, and having a good safety plan, and know where she, you know, to plot her course, because he's going to stalker, you know, what we know for him, and this, again, for me, it's a very spiritual thing. But when an abuser starts to lose his grip, well, he tightens it, you know, if you're if you're repelling off of a wall, and you go a little faster than you want to, you feel like you're losing control, you're gonna tighten the grip just a little bit. It's the same concept. It's the very same concept.

And so tightening the grip can mean around someone's throat, you know, or ramming your car into them, or, you know, going to the doors and screaming and breaking down doors, you know, can just be all kinds of things, but they're tightening the grip, because they're losing the grip. And that's their world. That's how that's where they function.

And that's what they feel like they have to do. You know, I went out in in Roy, you remember when I went out and did the poll, and I told you how cold it was, you know, when we did that show. And I actually saw that there, there was a couple who was going into the going into the supermarket. And I noticed when I started to approach them, he grabbed her really quick and pulled her away like no, you're not, you're not going to participate or say anything in reference to this.

And and they were an older couple, I would say in their 50s, maybe early 50s. And again, being the person who recognized little signs like this, that that was the first thing that kind of popped into my head. You know that this this individual has some type.

I don't know what level but some type of control over her. Mm hmm. Wow.

And if I can't have you know, nobody will. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. And they really try to pull in the pastors, you know, to go to court.

Just all kinds of things that they try to do. Oh, I'm in a I'm in a men's Bible study. Mm hmm.

Okay. And obviously not being taught about not how to treat your wife versus not how not to treat your wife. If you're in your Bible study, you're beating on her. So I had one very sad it is it is I had one couple that was working on the book, his needs and her needs. It's a great book, but guess what? He used it.

meet my needs. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that goes that's counterintuitive to fall in Christ, right? Because Christ was about serving everyone else loving everyone's never about self. And if we will make that our mantra about everyone else, especially as husbands, it should be about our spouse. It should be all about her. And if you'll do that, it'll be remarkable how things change.

That's right. So Patty, where can the listeners go if they want to go and understand how to get that safety plan? We got about 30 seconds left. You can go to next step dv.org our website, there's a safety plan on there. There's a crisis line number that they can call 24 seven. If you just have questions you want to know, am I a victim, you just not sure what you want to do? We can talk to you about that and help you figure out what's next for you. You provide counseling for co radio hosts that feel like they get picked on all the time.

Sure. It's been a pleasure having you. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to be here.

Appreciate it so much. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that ta w CMM talking and walking Christian men's ministry is building a community of men that are Christ followers with a desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on man talk today. Visit us at www tawcmm.com men walking the talk. This is the Truth Network.