Living a Dual Life

This is Andy Thomas from the Masculine Journey Podcast where we discover what it means to be a wholehearted man. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMN, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination and challenging men to take their God-assigned role.

Here's our hosts Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Well, here we are once again, Man Talk Radio. I'm glad to be back. I was, you know, we were out for a while, Roy, you know, uh, corning, teaming ourselves and things like that. And, and then we had the weather come through, but God have blessed us to be back again.

He has, brother Will. It's good to see you. And it's been, uh, goodness, uh, what, three weeks, three weeks or more longer. Yes.

Yeah. So it's, uh, it is good to be back. So welcome to Man Talk Radio folks. Uh, we're going to have just a very open conversation about some of the stuff that we're seeing in today's environment, mostly as it relates to the body of Christ, uh, at least on this first show that we're doing together and, uh, talk about some of the failures that have happened out there in the, in the marketplace with some of our brothers in Christ. And, but, uh, we're just going to just, but Will, how have you been before we even get into the show? I've been, I've been great. God has been so good to me, you know, uh, bounced back from all of the weather and, and the, uh, quarantining and, and just all of that.

And God is good. Well, you got touched pretty close. Didn't your son had COVID didn't he? Yeah, he did. And he was actually working beside of you, working beside me.

And, uh, God kept you safe and kept him, got him healthy quick. Yep. That's a good thing. Uh, I think everybody at this point has someone in their life or knows somebody who has had it at this point, you know, with the saturation across the country.

And, uh, there's not many people you talk to anymore that doesn't need to know someone or weren't family member wasn't involved with catching this virus. Exactly. Exactly. So we're hopeful now with the new Johnson and Johnson vaccine coming out, that that's going to make things, uh, at least get the herd immunity developing quicker. Right.

And we hope, we hope. Yes. Did you realize with the, you and I are in the critical mass group of the absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. And that's not by age or health condition folks. But today we want to talk about, you know, individuals who have been in the body of Christ just for a long time. And we've seen things recently in the news. I think Roy, you talked about bill, uh, and, uh, and of course everybody know about, uh, Ravi Zacharias. And we just mentioned the names. We're not targeting anybody specifically, uh, you know, these individuals have been in the news.

And so we want to ask ourselves the question today. When you have a person who has been in the body of Christ and being used by the Lord to bring forth the gospel message, and then all of a sudden they lead this secret life, you know, what, what does that say about an individual? What are people saying about individuals who do this and individuals? Where, where do you think in a person who commits such acts against the Lord, you know, w w where is their, their future?

Yeah. And in the, the newsworthy, if you will, are those people that are in key positions, right? And we, we know that, uh, of some of the ones we just mentioned, then there's Hillsong church is going through some things as we speak as, and most, and unfortunately it seems to be the larger populations that get the notoriety, right?

The larger bodies of Christ, the big churches, like we're just talking about Griffin, the organizations like Robbie Zacharias and different ones. But what's, what this whole point is, is there shouldn't be a different look to the man Monday through Saturday than there is on Sunday. And we've talked about this quite often on our show that your face and your attitude and your approach to life and the way you treat others and the way you live your life out as a Christ follower should not look any different Monday through Saturday than it does on Sunday. And this is a prime example, these situations, meaning that they're upfront, they're in front of people, they're giving one face to the crowd, one face to the congregation or one face to their membership group, and then they're living their life differently.

And why is that? Well, and it's really, it's really not, they're living their life different as they are living a dual life. So it's a dual life. So you have, you have a hidden secret life, you know, apart from you presenting yourself to the public.

So this, this hidden life. So now we, we asked ourselves the question, okay, all of the people that a person who is in the body of Christ, they're proclaiming the gospel, they're preaching to millions of people around the world, bringing souls into the body of Christ. And then all of a sudden they're, they're leading this dual life. What does that say about the people or to the people who have heard the messages that has been proclaimed through those individuals? Yeah. And I, and I'll agree with you and partly on this, will the, my point about differently is that in the following of Christ, you can't live a dual life.

You either in or you're out. So my point was living their life differently. The face that they're showing on Sunday and their indication is that I am a follower of Christ. This is the way I live my life, but they're not living their life that way.

You're the, the dual face would be a good description from my standpoint. The different is the fact that they can't live the dual life. You know, Christ has told us that you can't be on the fence. You can't be Luke going on the either for me or against me. So if I'm living a life that is against the will of God, then that is a different life, right? You could, you could pose, you could be a poser, right?

To be a, from a posing standpoint, you're exactly right. I'm posing because of imposing this dual life or posing this life that I'm following Christ. In reality, you're not really following Christ because you're doing things that aren't of the will of God. And you're intentionally sinning against God, not the accidental. I slip up, makes it, but intentionally choosing to sin against God.

Right? So, you know, so again, we go back to that question. That question is, is what does that say about all of the individuals that this person proclaimed the gospel to millions of people, brought them to the Lord? What does that say to them in reference to what they heard being preached through that individual? Well, let's hope that the scripture was not tainted, right? Because I've listened to some of Robbie's stuff and some of the other pastor stuff. The scripture seems to be spot on by the references in the way the reading of the scriptures.

I can't speak to holistically. So what it says to those people is that this man or woman, whoever's failed is human, right? But they've led a different way. They've led a different life than what they put out in front of everyone, which is the whole problem. And that, as much as the people that were impacted inside the church, look at the people outside the church. Well, this goes back to the whole hypocrisy thing. You talk to the 20 somethings today. And that's one of their number one complaints is the hypocrisy of the people that they see in the churches today. And at least it's an excuse, maybe not a true basis, but that's some of the reason you hear you.

We even talked about that, what, several months back, right? About what's going on with the millennials and now the other generation, why they're not there. So what it says to them is that I'm not, I'm not, don't fear my Lord. I don't fear God. That's what it says to them as the person who's failed that they do not fear God because they're out there living this dual life, as you put it. That's what it says.

Well, collateral damage is immeasurable. Well, you know, when you have a, I think when you have a person who's proclaimed the gospel, brought millions of people to the Lord, we have to go back to the scripture because we don't want to use our, our knowledge base or some type of opinion. We have to let the word of God now speak through and for us.

Right. So when we look at Isaiah chapter 55 and verse 11, God makes a statement to the prophet. And he says that when my word goes out of my mouth, that it will, it will do two things. It will accomplish what it's, what he set it out to do.

And it will also number two, prosper the individuals who are hearing it. So those are the two things God says in reference to his word when his word is spoken. Now the question is, is does it matter how the individual is living or does it matter that the word of God is doing what Isaiah 55, 11 says, that it's fulfilling its purpose. And so I submit to the, to the listening audience that if you listen to the word of God on a secular radio station, it's still the word of God.

If, if a individual who is a Judas Iscariot can go out, perform miracles and yet deny Christ, what does that say to the individual and the individuals who walk with him? See where I'm going? So it's, it's, it's, it's deeper. It's, it's deeper, I think, than just when we talk about the word of God or when we look at a person.

So we can't look at the man. We have to look at the message. Well, the scripture also tells you not to cause a brother to stumble. So his behavior and his failure and with all the people that he was leading and speaking into, right, is, is, has an impact. So the collateral damage he's responsible for will well see, and I'm not, I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about, uh, the life that he lived. I'm talking about the word that was spoken through him. No, no, I don't disagree with that.

The word will land with the way it's supposed to land. And that's my point. So my, my point is nothing else other than that.

Yeah, no, I'm with you there. Yeah. Yeah.

So what I'm, but, but the point being that as listeners, because we've got people that are listening here, they're living dual lives. Absolutely. We know that.

So, and our hope is that through this conversation, we're going to challenge people to get off that path to, you know, because to start fearing God and get into the fold and start walking the way God intended for us to walk. Right. Absolutely.

Yeah. And see, God have, I mean, all of the things that, and I'm, we're not, again, going to go into any details about some of the things that we're talking about, but God says specifically in Hebrews chapter 13 and verse four, he says, marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled, the whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. So when, when, if you are a married individual and you are not honoring your marriage vows, then what that does is it says exactly what we talked about earlier, that you attempting to hide secrets. And I'm, I'm so glad we're talking about secrets because there is a really, really good book by Patrick Means.

And we tried to get Patrick on the show, in fact, last year. But, but he, he said he was going into another direction and he no longer gave interviews, but it's sort of like my, a good go-to book when it talks about men's secret lives. And so he talks about three stages in that book that man goes to, and I know we're coming up on a break cause I'm excited about this. This is a really, this, this is a really challenging subject and it should be for those listening and for us speaking about it. Well, Will, I'm glad you're excited cause it's always good to see you get excited and we're going to take a break here in just a second. Folks, thanks for joining us. We miss having time to be with you. We'll be back in just a moment. First time visitors eat for free.

Join your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr. A black guy and a white guy. Affordable chiropractic in High Point. As you might tell from their name, affordable chiropractic, even for the cash patient. Dr. Jeff Fricke has been caring for patients in High Point for 34 years. Physical therapy, such as ultrasound and spinal decompression for disc conditions, such as herniation. Comprehensive care for auto accident injury patients with no out of pocket expense. Remember affordable chiropractic on West Lexington Avenue in High Point.

Call 336-885-1987. Welcome back to Man Talk Radio and folks again, we miss having an opportunity to chat with you. Will and I are sitting here going through, uh, living the dual life and living a different life than what you portraying to the Christ followers around you. So, and we were just talking, we'll just let into the Hebrews verse.

I think it was verse 13 and four. Yeah. And for talking about that, about keeping the bed clean and pure and just, so let's talk about that. You know, Will that's yeah, we have, we have shared so many times on the show about the various components and this is man talk, right? So, I mean, that's, we know we got some ladies that are, and we're so thankful for their listing out there and nudging their husbands along the way and poking them in the side. But you know, we never need, we should never miss an opportunity to talk about purity.

And right now we were right dead on it. Exactly. And, and, but I want to go back to, to the book Men's Secret Wars by Patrick Means, really good book folks. And, and of course, I'm not one to, uh, attempt to advertise anything, but I've had that book now for probably about three or four years.

And it's a really good resource for me. But in that book, Patrick Means talks about the three stages that lead an individual up to and over the point of collapsing. The first stage is direct violation of your conscience, direct violation of your conscience. And what he says there is that when, when you do something that is outside of the will of God, you're going to get a conviction, not condemnation, but you're going to be convicted because the closer your walk is to the Lord, the more God is going to show himself real to you.

And so if you're drawing closer, see, it's just like, it's just like the sun, the closer you get, the warmer it becomes, the further away you get from the sun, the colder you becomes. It's the same way when it comes to the body of Christ. And then the second thing is, he says that there is a misdirection or compartmentalizing your sin. And, and I mean, and he goes into a lot of detail there.

That's, I mean, that's a really good, good chapter too. And then of course, uh, third, the third stage is basically falling over the edge or a complete submitting to the seed that's been planted, you know, and, and of course, you know, James talk about that, you know, uh, the book of James, you know, every man sin when he is drawn away by his own lust, not the lust of another, but his own lust and he's enticed. And once that seed is planted and it starts to germinate, look out. So Will, how do people prevent that seed from getting planted?

And then how do they, if the seed has gotten planted, how do they basically put the weed control in? Well, you know, uh, when a person, if a person is not living a steadfast and steady life, you know, and, and drawing closer, it's just like, for example, uh, I wouldn't say that I have a habitual, uh, need to read the Bible because it will become a habit. I read the Bible because I love God. Amen. I'm not going to make something a habit because in, in the world, you have a habit of doing this. You have a habit of doing that. So if you have a habit of doing it and it is unfruitful to your life, you know, because it's, it's not one of the fruits of the spirit, Galatians 5, 22 and 23.

If, if it's not doing that for the body of Christ, if it's not advancing the gospel and building up. So what is it that I need to be doing? I need to have a steady life that draws me closer to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, how do I do that? You make time listener to eat. You make time to do all of the chores that you need to do.

Go to the places you need to do, go to the restaurant, go for your phone, all of that stuff. You know, you make time for it. So if you don't make time for Christ, then you are automatically putting a distance between you, a obstacle, a road obstacle in front of you and everybody else.

So, so that's what I would say, Roy. You have to have a steady drive. I'm not going to say compulsion, but you got to have a steady drive to want to draw closer to Christ. Because if you draw closer to Him, it's just like sin in James chapter one. It's just like the sin factor.

The sin factor says that you are drawn away by your own lusts, but yet Christ wants you to draw closer to Him. So that drawing in turn gives you an opportunity to open up the pipeline. It's just like water flowing through a pipe. You open up that pipeline.

You don't have a valve closing in on you. You open it up with that pipeline and all of a sudden the word of God is going to flow. That's right.

That's right. And I, what comes to my wheels, steady diet, steady diet of the word and chasing God. Because, you know, if we think about it, people I think equate pursuing God through the Bible is just a chore to your point.

And sometimes it can seem that way if you've just made it just a routine or trying to make it a routine. But if you think of that, it's a face-to-face meeting with God and an opportunity to spend some very special time. I mean, He literally is in your presence already with the Holy Spirit. If you've accepted Christ, He's sitting there with you and you open up the word of God and it gets unveiled in the greater and deeper level. And just think of, and I mean, just over the last several weeks, through some of the seminars we've had and held, I mean, just the unveiling of some of the stuff that some of the pastors have opened up in the scriptures because they, God anointed them through the interpretation of the scriptures, incredible stuff.

And it's just amazing how exciting it gets when you start seeing it in a different view and in a deeper level. So, but you can't do that if you're not in the word. Amen. And the other piece of that too, which we talk about quite often is the prayer time, you know, and I think it's a pastor Ken shared that with us, I think a couple of months ago, but it's important that you pray ahead of getting in the word, right? Well, if you really pray before you even start into the word, so just to open up the conversation with God and just ask God to cleanse your mind and heart and just unveil to it what it is He wants you to see through the word. You know, because we can justify anything and see Proverbs, Proverbs 14, 12 says, all the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes, but the end thereof is the ways of death. And that's where the old soul is surfacing that, you know, but we got to have the new spirit leading the way and not the old soul. Well, and we're not, we, and we're not crucifying the old man every day, just like the word of God says that we need to crucify the old man. Of course, we, we quote Romans 12 too often, you know, and, and if you don't renew the mind, then all of a sudden the old man is, he's going to want to resurrect himself.

He rises up and the new spirit gets squashed. And, and see, and, and, and when we, whoever you give attention to, that's who you're going to serve. And see, that's, that's Romans 6, 16 says, whoever you, who, you know, whoever you give your attention to, whoever you thrive towards, you either going to have the spirit of righteousness or you're going to have the old man waiting right there to consume you. So let's talk, Will, you know, tempering of steel, you know, has to be go through the fire, right? So we as men, iron sharpens iron. We know that we use that verse quite a bit out of Proverbs 27, 17. So, so one man sharpens another, but people think about temptation coming through the temptation is so important and it's important to be tempted because it strengthens your, your following of Christ, right? Because then you have to lean heavier on him when you're tempted. If you succumb to the temptation, you're not growing and you're not tempering.

Follow me. Oh yeah. So folks, just because temptation is coming to your life, that's not necessarily a bad thing. How you handle it makes it a good thing or a bad thing.

You know, it's like the old adage. It's not what someone do to you. It's what you do to them, right? So if you, if you render an evil act or thought for an evil act or thought, then you're not, you're not displaying what, Matthew chapter five, when Jesus is talking about in the beatitudes, we're not displaying that at all. We're, we're not, uh, you know, turning the other cheek.

We're, we're, we never render evil for evil. Uh, if you're a follower of Christ, you just don't do it. And you know, I love James. That's absolutely the man James one to talk about this.

Consider it pure joy. My brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance, perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. That's James one, two through four. And then in that same chapter, verse 12, blessed is the man who perseveres under trial because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. And see, that's only if you stay in the test. And so, so when we see, uh, individuals who we, we held up in a high standard, you know, and then all of a sudden they fall and then it's like, wow.

So if this individual fail or if they, uh, leading this dual life, then what about the individual who, who has only talked to two or three people in their life? And I think what, what it goes back to say is the word of God is going to stand, you know, uh, Jesus said in, uh, Mark, uh, chapter 11 and verse 22, he said, have faith in God. Now that was when, right before that event happened, Jesus had cursed the fig tree because he went there and, you know, figs was supposed to be on the tree and they were only had leaves and there was nothing on there. Jesus cursed it. And then it came out the next day and Peter was like, whoa, Lord, you know, this tree that you curse, it's, it's dead.

It basically dried up from the roots. And of course, when Jesus said, have faith in God, then he went on to say, if you, uh, can say anything to, to this mountain be thou cast into the sea, then you can do it. So, so he was, he was saying, Jesus was saying, you must have a God sized faith. So if you put your faith in the man, then that's the wrong thing.

If you hold that man up in highest thing, you, you, you're going in the wrong direction. Well, which is basically putting your faith in the world, right? Because man is, is in the world, right? And, and the old man is of the world, right? So, I mean, you're basically putting your faith in the world. Yes.

Yep. So, you know, back to James, will James four, four says, you adulterous people don't, don't, you know, that friendship with the world is hatred toward God. Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God, or do you think scripture says without reason that the spirit he calls to live in us in these intensely, but he gives us more grace. That is why scripture says God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. And it is that humble man. It is the man who recognized that everything that goes on in, in my life. And if I claim to be what I say, I am, then I'm a child of God. And, and, but we, we got to continue this Roy.

Yeah. We'll pick this back up next week. So folks, we are so happy to be back with you. And if you're listening today and having, having accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior, just know that he died for you rose on the third day, stands in eternal life beside the father. All you have to do is accept being a sinner, admit being a sinner, repent and turn to follow Jesus. Get in the body of fellowship in God's name. God bless you all.

Amen. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that T A W C M M talking and walking Christian men's ministry is building a community of men that are Christ followers with a desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches, and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on Man Talk today. Visit us at www.tawcm.com. Men walking the talk. This is the truth network.