Racial Tension-"Where do we go from here?" Part 1

This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMN, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination, and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Welcome to Man Talk Radio. You got one half of the duo here today.

You got the black guy, but the white guy, he's taking a little R&R today. So in the studio with me at this time, we have Pastor John McCoy. And you know, Pastor, we've been trying to get you on the air for a minute, you know.

We've been talking about trying to get you on the air. And Pastor McCoy, just tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're the pastor of and where you're located. Well, I'm actually from Greensboro, North Carolina, but I pastor Faith Fundamental Baptist Church in Reeseville, North Carolina. I've been doing that about 20 years. I'm a veteran from, I was in the Marine Corps for several years.

I have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and homeland security. And I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Well, you know, Pastor, you know, with that degree, so you could talk about some of these issues that we've been faced with because it is something that has been happening around the community and the world. We've been talking about this particular subject on the last five or six shows that we have done. And so we've entitled this one, Racial Tension, Where Do We Go From Here?

That's what we want to find out. Where do we go from here after we have experienced what we have experienced and seen in the news media and all of what is happening with the riots and things like this. So from your perspective, what have you seen, Pastor, as the issue and have you talked to this about with your congregation? Well, the biggest issue is for people to get an understanding exactly what is going on in this particular instance of some of the things that are happening now. People are getting confused.

Is it racial discrimination or is it police brutality? In these particular instances, we need to get an understanding exactly what we are dealing with. If I say it like this for those that are saved, they need to get an understanding of what God has called us to do and how God has called us to react. So it's not an easy answer regardless of how you look at it.

It's never going to be an easy answer. But by the same token, we should be able to come to some sort of agreement and understanding of what the Lord would want us to do in this case. Exactly. Because we were talking on the way over here and I had shared with you that when I have a conversation with my brothers and sisters who don't look like me, one of the first things sometime that they bring up in the conversation is they say, Pastor, why is it that you have the people burning down buildings in their own neighborhood?

Why do you see them looting stores? And, you know, we were talking about that. I share with you that when if you put your emphasis on the looting, on the hooligans, on the rowdies, on the disruptors, if you put your mind there, then you're missing the whole central focus that a man died needlessly and he didn't have to. Well, first you got to understand, you have to come to the point that you understand and get the correct information on the man that died.

It was needlessly because some other measurements or some other steps could be taken to prevent that. And these steps should not just be getting put in place now that it happened, but these steps should have been put in place years ago. I like to say, first of all, you know, it's a tragic thing that happened, but you have to look at the focus that what we're trying to do now. We're trying to get this thing that people can understand that we have a problem in the system and we got to work it out. We got to have a true conversation about color.

We have to have a true conversation about authority. You know, that's good because, you know, if and I think personally it shouldn't have been now since these conversations should have been enacted because when we were talking coming over here, you know, issues had happened for a long time and we've seen this repeatedly happen again and again and again. And, you know, we say when is enough enough?

And so, you know, both of us, we experienced that time period during the 60s when, you know, there was rioting with respect to the civil rights movement. And I share with people sometime I said, you know, that was another time. But some of the issues that we're confronted with are the same issues.

So it's like this repeated thing that's going over and over. And I believe that all churches, all churches need to have some focus groups established. I don't know what they're calling today. They may call it by another name, but a focus group to address issues that's happening in the church because you and our pastor, we know that they are happening. I see them in the church that God blessed me to pastor.

And I know you see it in church that you have pastored or places that you have visited. Well, the thing about it in this day and time, you've got multicultural churches and a lot of times we shy away from these types of conversations because we don't want to offend anyone. But I believe in today's churches pastors should take the front and begin to talk about these things because it's something that you can't hide. And even now with the things that are happening, it's something that questions are being asked. People come into the churches and they're afraid to even really talk to each other about it because no one wants to say it.

No one else. But in order for this thing to be cleared out, you need to have that type of conversation. You need to say this is what happened. You need to say this.

And don't don't you can't hold back. Sometimes it's not wrong to say a black man. I don't get offended because you call me a black man. Exactly.

I don't either. And you see, if I'm speaking to someone white, they're not going to get offended if I call them a white guy. But if I call them out of their name, you see, that's one thing you got to do. You don't call them out of their name because they don't like being called out of their name no more than we like to be called out of our name.

Exactly. So in the church, you have to have these types of conversations, even like you said, even if you have to implement a plan to have these types of discussions with the leaders. First of all, how do we address this thing? How do we talk to each other?

How should we teach the congregation to talk to each other? Because we're all God's children. We're all created in his image.

So therefore, nowhere in there did he put a color in it. He just said we was created in his image. So if I'm created in his image and my friend is created in his image, we shouldn't have a problem. And we are all created in this image, but we are not necessarily all brothers and sisters if they haven't received Jesus Christ. So we want to make sure we put that in there too.

But you're absolutely right. A person, when they come to a church and they don't feel welcome, you know, and I've been to places where it's, you know, a mixed congregation is there. And I've walked in and I have gone probably 30 or 40, 45 feet into the church until someone even acknowledged to say, hey, brother, how you doing? Welcome to such and such a fellowship or a tabernacle. So right then, I think we can easily start formulating defensive posture in that, I don't know why I came here to begin with.

Is nobody going to, you know, come up to me and give me a right hand, a fellowship extension, these type things. So and we know it goes on, but if we don't talk about it, like you said, what happens is it's held in. And now we're until you get at that powder keg moment and then all of a sudden things blow out of proportion.

And now we're trying to put building fire out with a fire extinguisher. Well, it's like you said in the beginning when I first get that feeling of you already see me as different. You change your attitude. You change the way you talk to me. See, that's not helping me be comfortable.

Exactly. What's helping me be comfortable is you be who you are. Just like quick, I remember on one occasion we were doing the church. A pastor came up to me, I won't call the name, and they said, OK, we're going to go out witness. I'm good with that. We go out witness.

But it was what came next. You talk to the black people and I'll talk to the white people. Why won't it just you talk and I'll talk? Exactly. You know, because we're supposed to be doing the same thing. And so that's where these barriers come up. That's where the barriers come up and the slight division start formulating when things like this is said. And we don't know what goes on into the mind of the hearer when he hears this, because, again, if we are people, then you minister to the people.

You just take that side of the street and I'll take this side of the street and whoever come out the front door, you know, whether they're black or white, we're just going to minister the gospel to them. And see, it's small issues like this, pastor, just like we're talking about, that starts that small flame burning, which eventually will go and blaze into a raging fire. It goes back to that one thing when I was talking about the leadership of the church. When your congregation sees you step outside and there's a black church beside you, that what we consider a black church beside you or a white church beside you, and the pastor walks out and don't even acknowledge his neighbor. Now, we're all children of God working for the same thing. So we're not even acknowledging each other as being in that same work. So, of course, the congregation is going to feel, you know, I'm not supposed to mix.

But is it really a thing of mixing or a thing of culture? Hmm. Wow. You're absolutely right there. So you hit you hit on something right there, pastor, because you're absolutely right.

We feel comfortable with the people who we are around. You know, wow. This this is good stuff here. We're coming up on a break right now, but come back and join us again as we continue this conversation of racial tension. Where do we go from here with Pastor John McCoy, who's sitting in the seat, because we thank God for him and we thank God for everything he's doing. We'll be right back.

On West Lexington Avenue in High Point Hall, three, three, six, eight, eight, five, one, nine, eight, seven. Welcome back to Man Talk Radio. I'm here with Pastor John McCoy of Faith Fundamental Baptist Church in Eden, North Carolina. And pastor, right before the break, you hit right on the nail on the head, as we say, when you talked about the leadership. And that's a very important thing, I think, is that the leadership, the people will see what the leader is doing and then they will tend to follow suit. So if the leader is open to objective discussion in reference to what we see that's going on around in the United States and in the world, then they will have a tendency to follow the lead. But if if he has that or she has that hands off approach, then the the people will again see things as you so eloquently stated.

You know, is it is it a culture thing or do I just don't supposed to be mixing with you at all? So what about some of these other things that we have seen in the news in reference to George Floyd and Trayvon Martin and Breonna Taylor? And I mean, the list goes on and on, Pastor. Well, you know, I guess I would be thinking more about George Floyd at this time. It's it's the one that sticks most in the mind.

Everyone would be in agreement that basically the man was murdered. I'm just going to say it. That's right. That's right.

But where we come to this, this is where we come from. Had to get the understanding. Was it actually racism or was it police brutality? Well, me personally, I think in this particular case, it might have just been a racist move by a police officer. But because if you look at the film and you see the things and me personally, I look at I deal with spirit. So I'm saying when I looked at it through my spirit, I saw a man with hate in his eyes.

And this hate took it so far to the point of just murder. I believe if anyone would be honest about the situation, there should be outrage and there should be a cry for justice. But we have to go a little deeper than just that cry. We have to understand exactly what was going on. There's going to be some things in this we never know. Regardless of what we saw on the films or regardless what people say, that's things that we don't know. But if I'm thinking of it right quick from the way that God sees that we're supposed to react, we supposed to seek that justice, but we supposed to seek it in a godly way.

Amen. You know, because the word of God in Proverbs, I believe it's chapter 16 and verse 2 says that, All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes, but God weighs the spirit. In other words, he weighs the motive of why you do what you're doing. So see, there's a lot of people out there who have a different motive than the motive of the individuals who are actually peacefully going out to protest, which they have the right to do, protest peacefully under the Constitution and to voice their disapproval of what the police did and how this man was arrested and ultimately murdered, you know, because of his unwillingness to take his knee off of the guy's neck. So how can a person who is, say, have all this hate?

And I'm just going to pose this question to you. How can a person who have hate in their heart, and let me use an example of that so we can get some clarity around it. You and I were talking about the incident that happened here in Greensboro and what these guys that were going through the Bojangles drive-through and one of them actually, or multiple of them, spit at the individual lady who was taking the orders. She was black and they were white.

And then they started yelling out slurs and things like this. So how do you, and then there's more to that story, how do you take an individual who has the mindset of the individuals that did this to this young lady or the police officer Chauvin who did the act against Joy Floyd? How do you start that conversation with a person like that? Well, the thing about it is what a person believes is what they believe. I would have to go from the standpoint of taking down monuments.

We take down flags. But that's not the real problem because the memory of it is already embedded in a person's heart. If you can't change their heart, you're not going to be able to change anything about him. No, you're preaching, haven't you? It's just like salvation. If our heart don't change, we can say that we know God. But if the change is not, therefore, if any man be in Christ, he's a new creature.

That new creature has not came out yet. So you take all this stuff away, the monuments, the flags, and you say, oh, we're doing such a great job, we're getting this stuff out the way. But see, if I teach you something as a child, you don't need that monument to pass it on to another child.

Oh, my. If you get Christ in your life, Christ will take all that stuff out, and you can pass on to your child what God expects out of a man. He said, be ye holy for I the Lord God am holy. So if you're not living a holy life, you're going to have that hatred in your heart, and you're going to react to the hatred that you have. Oh, pastor, you're preaching up in here now. I'm telling you.

That's all right. Because I think when a person starts reacting the way that they do, a lot of this, the hate that they have and attempting to start that conversation, that's years instilled in them as well. And when we talk about slavery and 400 or 600 years of oppression that the black man has been through in America, when we talk about that, we're not looking back as some individuals say. Well, don't look back. Don't go back there because what happened to your ancestors, I wasn't a part of that. But what you're seeing today is a result of those things. So when we constantly see what we're seeing in reference to just black men, women being shot and the shooting is not justifiable, you cannot forget about the 400 to 600 years of slavery that we've been in because that's going to come to the forefront. It's going to come back to our remembrance. You know, and we can kill people with our tongue.

I mean, Proverbs 18, 21 says death and life is in the power of the tongue and they who love it will eat of its fruit. So so so we're out here. We're out here killing people, not necessarily with guns, knives, brick sticks and things like that. But we're killing them with our words. And so when we see like these individuals come through the the Bojangles and Yale racial slurs and spit at this young lady and asked her for drinks that they really didn't pay for. You know, when when you start seeing this, I think it goes back to, again, the individuals and their standpoint on how they see themselves versus how they see the young lady who was waiting on them. Well, I understand what you're saying, and I'll be honest, which I think that a lot of this comes from fear.

We go back to the slavery time. It was not physically from I guess from the slave's point of view, physically you would be afraid of him because he was a big, strong, robust man. And that has carried out through the years fear. So what is the best way to keep that one you are in fear of in control? You got to bring along more fear.

So so you remember the children of Israel, they got always getting in that kind of standpoint. I got to make them afraid. Whatever the king was, I got to keep them in check. I got to keep them afraid.

Now, when we look at today's right quick. When we look at today's and we look at the way the people were doing, the people at Bojangles, these murders, you see that in the case of these people that was murdered, they were handcuffed. They were subdued. They was in a position where they couldn't fight back.

They were in a position where they could not say what was really happening. And and see, if you get a man in that position, if I tie you up or get four people to hold you and beat you up. I didn't beat you up because I was stronger than you. I beat you up because I was afraid of you.

I was afraid of you. So I got you in a position you can't fight me back. And sometimes that if we're talking about police brutality, that badge gives you power.

Like I was telling you, I'm a security guard. But when people see that badge still, they look at that as a symbol of authority. I got some type of authority and they will back away.

But if I misuse that authority, I'm already doing wrong. God's telling us we supposed to treat people as we do. We treat ourselves. We supposed to love them as we love ourselves.

So so if I mistreat you just because you're white, then evidently I don't love myself. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Wow. That's deep. Because love is the base on which all of what we do should be built on. But see, when we go out and we start judging individuals like Matthew Chapter seven talks about Judge not and be not judge for the same judgment you judge. You shall be judged. And with the same measure you meet, it shall be measured to you again.

So when we go out and we see things like this happening out here, let's not forget about the central focus of the issue on why the people are out there. And so we need to start bringing that back. We're coming to an end of man talk. But, Pastor, we're gonna pick this back up next week. Praise the Lord. And because this is something that people need to hear and it needs to be talked about in the church.

And if it's not talked about in the church, then where can it be talked about? So we thank God for you and we know that God is in control and he's the one who is able to do what we cannot do. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that TAWCMM talking and walking Christian men's ministry is building a community of men that are Christ followers with the desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on Man Talk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com. Men walking the talk.