Falling Away From The Faith Part 1

Hey, this is Mike Zwick from If Not For God Podcast, our show.

Stories of hopelessness turned into hope. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it, share it. But most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMN, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy. Welcome once again to Man Talk Radio.

I'm Will Hardy. I'm Roy Jones Jr. And Roy, today we are going to be talking about people who are falling away from the faith. And you know, the thing about this particular topic is that the way Satan presents things to people, it's never obvious. Very subtle. So yeah, he just don't come and say, hey, you know, I want to deceive you today.

I'm going to use your child to do it, or I'm going to use your spouse to do it. He doesn't come this way. The way he comes, he comes so subtly and he comes in a way that presents him as helping you.

Right. And he's setting up the stage for the fall, right? So these different steps, it's actually the falls coming at the end of it. And it may look all fine and good and like it's going to have a big reward on the front side of it, but there's something bad on the other end of this process. And see, and that's how doctrines, doctrines are the same way. See, so they take the word of God and the word of God is not presented in the sense of the way it was intended it to be. So what they do is they mix their doctrine with the word of God. And when you listen to it, and there's several religions and or denominations that are out there, I'm not going to name them, not going to put anybody on the spot, but you probably know who most of them are.

We don't have enough phone lines or bandwidth to cover those responses. Exactly. And the way that they come, it's so, they're so inviting. And I recall this one young man, he had approached this one young man from a different denomination, and he was asking him some questions and the things that he was saying to him wasn't lined up with the scripture. But after a while, he was almost convinced that what this individual was telling him was true. Well, you know, Will, that's a big problem right now, right? I mean, we could take this conversation and span it across everything on social media today.

We're having to be talking about why people are walking away from the church or they're watering down the gospel as we're moving into this conversation. But that's the problem with today's society. They take something and they don't verify. It's okay to trust what you hear, but you need to verify. We've seen that so many time and time and times again, right, that people have listened to something and they've taken off and ran with it and never did their due diligence to verify that the facts were there. And I think another thing that they attempt to do is use logic.

Or don't. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. I would say there's many times they're not using logic.

They say, well, you know, I mean, we could give many examples. Right. Yeah.

Because because sometime logic, that's the way the enemy plays on his field. Right. You know, he comes in there and it's, it sounds good because it's logical. Right. And it's easy to rationalize if it sounds good. Right. You can convince yourself of just about anything. And the human mind has that power. Right. And that's why it's so important to renew it every day. Like we've talked about many times in our meetings. Exactly.

Romans 12, two. Yes. Amen. Renewing of the mind. So it's a continuous thing. A continuous thing. It seems like we've heard that before.

I think we did somewhere along the way. But, but we, we want to talk about this article and this is an article that you brought to our attention from the Christian post. And it talks about people who believe and really follow after in understanding within themselves, because they've been deceived, that there's other ways to make it to heaven. There's other ways other than going through Jesus Christ to go to heaven. And they don't really talk about salvation.

They talk about heaven. Right. Which means they most likely don't talk about the consequences of not making it there either. Which means they probably don't understand the process, what the process is in order to be safe.

Right. So in this particular article, it talks about, it says that 68%, well, as part of the ongoing release of the Arizona Christian university based cultural research center, exploring perceptions of sin and salvation from George Barna in these ways. You know, he's a, he's a noted Christian statistician, if you will. The group's directors show that nearly two thirds of Americans believe that having some kind of faith is more important than the particular faith with which someone aligns.

So this is saying that the followers of Christ, I Buddhism, Hinduism, all the different things, all the different faiths of the world. They're saying that two thirds of the people think as long as you've got something, you're okay. Exactly. And see that, that in and of itself, I think it, well, it could say that they have some notion that there is a life beyond the life that they're living. That could say that. Right. Right. But again, it's the way in which you get there.

Right. See, I think that they're confused because when you're talking about, you're talking about Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism, Taoism, all of these other isms that are out there and people are embracing them because of this of this inclusiveness, you know, you're including everybody. It's almost like universalism. You know, everybody's going to heaven.

All you got to do is just be a good person. And so that's, that's basically what some of this article says. So it goes on to say 68% who embrace that notion, the notion that some faith is better than none at all, identifies Christians, including 56% of self-described evangelicals and 62% of those who identify as Pentecostals. 67% of mainline Protestants and 77% of Catholics also embrace that ideal.

The findings show. So then you have to ask yourself the question, do they really believe the word of God? Indeed.

And if so, are they taking the word of God as the word of God and not, as we talked about earlier, mixing, mixing things up in it and not creating their own theology. Exactly. And their own doctrine, which say, you know, this is, this is the way that I, I accept and I believe you believe the way you want to believe. Right. Right. So this, this relativism, if you will, this belief that what's good for you may not be good for me, but what's good for you might be good enough to get you there.

And what's good for me might be good enough to get me there. And that's not the case at all. Not at all. And this is very obvious that we were seeing the church instead of being in the world and not of the world, the church is becoming part of the world. That's correct. Because with the numbers you mentioned and the folks that should be typically Christ followers have adopted this theology, if you will, or this mindset or belief that, that something's better than nothing. And you, I think also there are people who have changed in the way that they think in reference to theology and the scripture and Bible, they have changed. And there's a, there's a number of people who I can mention that I'm not going to mention who are famous people who, who started out Bible believing church following sound doctrinal teaching people. And now it's, they're believing in all of this mind over matter and things like this.

And I think once a born again believer get themselves caught up in this type of atmosphere and this type of doctrine, this is what begins to pull them in. Right. And what's causing that, right?

We need to talk about the elements that are contributing to that. So if we've talked about this before, the, this right here has got more direction over people's lives than for the most part than this does. Cause they're spending eight or nine hours a day looking at this thing, playing on it, talking on it, Facebook and check and see what George down the street's doing.

And George, we're not talking about you personally, but check, see what George down the street's doing instead of spending time here. Cause this is, this is the vehicle for closeness, intimacy, understanding, knowledge, wisdom, all those things. And, and knowing what to do in the worst of times and then the good of the best of times. So if we're not studying this, then everything else is going to start taking precedent. So it's kind of like the trash in trash out concept, right? If we're being inundated by all the world's mindsets and beliefs and systems through media, Facebook, all these different vehicles, we're spending no time in the word, what's going to be the natural consequence. Well, the natural consequences, we're going to depend on what we know and what we know is as about as bad sometimes because, because what we're looking for, we're looking for comfort. We're looking for an out, right?

Right. You know, so it's like, if I'm in pain, I want relief and I don't care how I get relief. I just need relief.

I need relief now. So this desperation move, if you will, is when people start reaching out to all of these other doctrines and these other beliefs that the enemy is coming in to deceive them, right? To say that there's more than one way to get to heaven. Well, we know that no growth comes without pain, right? Those of us who played sports, been in service, anything, you know that you are at your best when you've gone through the season of pain, because you know, on the other side, you're going to be that much stronger for it.

So if you're looking for an immediate answer or immediate solution with no pain, they'll say no pain, no gain. There's so much truth to that. And God seasons us, tempers us and grows us through some of these most difficult times.

That's right. Pain and suffering is part of the Christian life. Well, who suffered the most?

Amen. But Jesus Christ took the burden of all the world, all the sins of the world on his back on that day when he was crucified. So the pain, however, and see, there's two types to physical and emotional.

I'm referring to like righteousness versus unrighteousness, you know, so, so if I'm going through pain as a result of something that I have done outside of the will of God, now I'm bringing undue and unnecessary pain on myself, which is not going to be credited as being persecution for righteousness. Right, right. So disobedience equals consequence. Obedience equals rewards. Exactly. And see, we have to be able to differentiate between the two. So the article goes on and I know we're coming up on a break here, but the article goes on to say that slightly half over half of the Christian respondents said that they believe someone, and here it is now, listen, folks, someone can attain salvation by being or doing good. Come on, Roy.

Well, we've talked about that, right? Because with this whole argument about works doesn't get you into heaven, but works is important to prove out your faith. So being good doesn't do it, folks. Even the best of people aren't good enough. Christ told us that there is no one that was sinless except for him.

And he had to be crucified in order to carry it on to make it home. Amen. Amen.

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Call 336-885-1987. Welcome back to ManTalk Radio and Roy, Being or Doing Good. Now, over half of the Christian respondents believe that someone can attain salvation. So earlier, we were talking about getting to heaven. So this 50% or half of the respondents is basically saying that if I do good or if I be good, I can attain salvation that way, thereby I can enter heaven. But as you so cordially stated, inherently, we aren't good. I mean, we're born into this world sinners.

And we are. And there's only one way to achieve salvation. And we know, as we've mentioned, usually at the end of our show, we complete it right here now, that we have to acknowledge that Jesus Christ died for our sins, recognize that we're sinners and acknowledge we're sinners, acknowledge that He died for our sins and He rose on the third day and sits on the right hand of the Father. And if we start following Him and accept Him and recognize that, that's the only way to eternity.

And that's the only way for salvation. Good works doesn't do it being a good person, because we all know plenty of good people that don't believe in God, or that they don't believe in Christ, or they believe in some other higher being in their in their words. Moral, morally good. Morally good. Well, you know, when we had Jane on a few weeks ago, when six out of 10 couples experience infidelity, I would even question how many people are really morally good. I mean, just if you really want to get down to it with the pornography addiction, with the gaming addiction, because you know, that's taken away time from the family, as we talked many times, how many people really are morally good? And then who doesn't lie?

Who doesn't lie to their family, their co-workers or friends? So I would challenge in that wheel, great, great, great point, but I would challenge how many people really are morally good that aren't following Christ? And see, and that's, that's, again, that's a deception. Yeah. And not all Christ followers are morally good either. We know that.

That's right. Even nobody's perfect. We all fall short, but it's a conscious decision to do those things versus a mistake and falling short, right?

Yes. Because going back to what we, what we talked about when we had Jane on is that I had stated that there are more men who are unbelievers who basically lie about the position when they come in for counseling. So, and, and, and I typically don't, don't counsel, like, if both man and woman are unsaved, one have to be born again. So, so if they say that they don't know Christ, then that that's something for like a Jane. Exactly. Exactly. You know, you're not going to be able to relate to them in their world because they have no basis for your, your coaching.

Exactly. So, you know, we'll in Matthew seven here, it talks about true and false prophets in seven, 15 reading from the NIB version, you were talking about earlier about the different theologies, watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly, they are ferocious wolves, just like the Satan does and uses these folks. By their fruit, you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus by their fruit, you will recognize them. So folks, to Will's point earlier, what are you seeing? What is the real, is it just, is it just lip service? Is it, or is it really fruit that you're seeing?

As we always talked about, Uncle Dale used to say, we talked about last week, your actions are speaking so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying. What does the fruit production look like? You don't have fruit being produced, folks, you need to challenge it. And the fruit that you are producing, what quality of fruit is that? It is just like, and I want to use this natural example. If I go to the fruit stand, I'm going to look at an apple without a blemish.

I'm going to pick the orange that doesn't have any tears or breaks or anything like that in the skin. So we're going to inspect that fruit before we buy it and see the same way is with fellowship. Before you get into deep fellowship with someone, you need to inspect a lot of things that they're talking about.

That you're on common ground. Absolutely, because some of the things that they, they may be teaching, preaching, and dictating to you is, in fact, deceptive practices that they have inherited or things that they have heard that they have adopted. And now they're beginning to carry these things over into their lives.

And of course, now they're passing them on to other people. And so, am I really understanding the truth or not? So you have to have that spirit of discernment. And in order to have that spirit of discernment, you must be born again.

Which puts the Holy Spirit in your soul within you once you're born again. Amen. Yeah. So I've seen you buy fruit, by the way. So you are a very selective fruit buyer. And, you know, you have some funky looking fruit. Last year you were trying to get me introduced to, I can't remember what was the name of that stuff, by the way.

I forget what it is, but going on with this. It was all legal folks. That's right. That's right. That's right.

We weren't smuggling anything here. Okay. So we go on to this and it says in the next paragraph, in addition to the viewpoint that eternal salvation can be earned, listen at this, earned survey results show that 58% of Americans believe that no absolute moral truth exists. So by that very statement, you're saying that the word of God does not exist.

You're saying that the word of God does not exist or is not real. That's right. Because he is the author. He is the author and he is the absolute truth. That's right. He can't lie.

He can't tempt. There's no evil comes from him. So it has to be the absolute truth. And if a person, if a person believe that evil exists in the world, then inherently they have to believe that there is good that exists in the world. And we know from scripture that, which is our basis of which we walk, that Christ is the only one who is good.

Right. Well, so to say there's no absolute moral truth, then you say Adam and Eve really didn't matter that they ate from the forbidden tree, right? They ate forbidden fruit. So that really shouldn't have mattered if there was no absolute truth because they were in perfect fellowship, right?

Yes. Perfect fellowship with God, knew no sin. But when they broke the law, when they broke the rule that God had given, do not eat from this one tree, it all came crashing down. So they had absolute moral truth.

Don't do this. You have a sin free life, perfect fellowship, and you broke it. And now we all don't have it because it started back then. Absolutely. You know, and so when a person talks about that truth doesn't exist. See, that's how you actually break down and you do away with the Bible.

Yeah, yeah. So you see, so if you can, if you can through some, you know, logical reasoning or some type of doctrine that someone has come up with, if you could break down the fact that there is no moral truth and there is no absolute truth in the word of God, then the whole Bible come crashing down. So now that opens up the gateway for people, well, for people to just say, hmm, I'll just come up with my truth and you come up with yours. You know, what's good for you is good for you and what's good for me is good for me. Right.

Amen. So let's look at what it continuously says here and that the basis of truth are factors or sources other than God. Well, then that goes back to self rationalization, right?

If I'm doing something wrong, I can rationalize in my mind for whatever reason, every how I want to do it, that it's OK to do it. So this goes back to the thing we talked about earlier. So the reason there's this opinion that there's no absolute moral truth, I would offer up to you and submit that I believe it's because those folks that have taken this survey have got some underlying issues that they're trying to rationalize, whether it be the things we talked about, infidelity, pornography, alcoholism, all those different things that are sinning against the will of God.

I would submit to you that that's why that is what it is. And, you know, a lot of individuals who take this particular survey, if they're with people and they really don't want them to hear their answer, they're not going to tell the interviewer or surveyor. They're not going to tell them the answer they really want to tell them, if you know what I mean. So what they do is they say, well, you know, I got Jamie and Mike here with me. And so all of a sudden now this guy comes up to me and he starts saying, you know, throwing a microphone in my face, asking me these particular questions about Christianity.

You know, how are my answers are going to look in front of Jamie and Mike? Yeah, exactly. You know, so they'll just say something and it's like, you guys agree? You know, it's like there's a scripture about that. If you deny me before man, I'll deny you before the Father. That's exactly what it says. That's exactly what it says. To be in denial, you know, that there isn't any absolute truth, I think is being deceived in and of itself.

So let's continue. So factors or sources other than God. So 77% said that right and wrong is determined by factors other than the Bible.

Come on. 77%. 77%. So, okay, what determines it? I mean, if it's not, if we go back and say in our world, in our world, which is the right walk, that we know this is the truth. So if 77% of the people say that right and wrong is determined by something other than the Bible. That's right. So again, it goes back to whatever they say is truth. It's truth to them. Then I go back to say, there's an underlying issue that's rationalizing that concept and that mindset and that theory.

That's right. Because, you know, when you grew up, most people's parents, there is a right and wrong. Well, you know. There's a right and wrong, right?

Well, yeah. Well, you know, when Cain murdered Abel, there wasn't any written law at that time. And God told him, if you do what you're about to do, sin is crouching at your door. So to say that you are going to start to venture now into this area that is very dangerous for you, even though the law wasn't written down at that time.

So the law still resided in the mind of God, you know, and it hadn't been written down because it hadn't been given to Moses at Mount Sinai yet. So, but God said, you are about to sin. So what was God basically appealing to Cain for? He was appealing to him through his conscience. Yep. He was appealing to his conscience. But he didn't listen.

No. So we know what happened there. Folks, next week, join us again. We're going to continue this conversation. We thank you so much for being a part of ManTalk Radio broadcast. We are so excited to be able to share the Word of God with you and just how God is working in our lives and how we want God to work in your lives. Men and women, seek him out and let him be your guiding force.

Because this is good stuff. Amen. As we wrap up today's show, be assured that TAWCMM, Talking and Walking Christian Men's Ministry, is building a community of men that are Christ followers with a desire to be servant leaders in their homes, communities, churches, and work environments. Check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings. Drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future. Thank you for joining us on ManTalk today. Visit us at www.tawcmm.com. Men walking the talk.