Ooh, ooh, ooh Ooh, la da da da da da da da da Hallelujah God ruler of the universe, you are. There is no one. Like you, God giver of the deepest dreams you are. There is no one like you God thinker of tremendous thoughts you are Thinking Friendly towards me, God ruled. How holy true you are, and there is no one like you.
Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah. Welcome to Love Never Fails. In these last days, revival will come, but begins with our individual walk and personal relationship with Jesus. Let's join Brother John now. Angels proclaim well, good morning, good afternoon.
Who knows where you are listening to this? Maybe you're flying down the highway at 100 miles an hour. We're glad you're listening. Just be careful. This is Brother John, and you're listening to Love Never Fails.
And this is the Spotify version of our radio show that's been on the air for about 12 years down in Central and South America. And we do that in English and Spanish. And uh, these episodes we are uploading on Spotify. Um I'll just be straight up with you. I'm not a big.
Preaching the United States type of person. And so these Spotifies are for that reason. And we get a lot of opportunity to preach around the world, doing crusades, doing radio, teaching in the Bible school. But we don't do a whole lot. We don't really do much itinerating or anything in the United States, just our preferences, the missions world.
But we do believe that God is changing that.
So, anyway, these shows are a hope of answering questions and helping people realize. How easy it is, how, and I don't mean easy tongue-in-cheek, but how much easier it is than religion would let you believe. And so today I have with me my eldest son, and we're just going to have a conversation about God. We've got one sentence, and we're going to see where it goes. And we hope and pray that as we talk this out, and we...
We have a Bible, so we're known for jumping from one verse to another. And hey, that triggers this thought and that thought. And so we may quote a lot, we may read a lot, and we may paraphrase. But our hope is that as you listen to this show, It spurns something on the inside of you because we're not interested in the letter of the law. We're interested in the spirit, the spirit man that lives in you.
Paul said, All creation waits within your expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. Who you are is yet to be revealed, but that is a prophecy as much as it is a promise that's supposed to take place in this realm, in this earth, in your life. And so we want to encourage you towards that and motivate you towards that. And so, Joel, you, you, I'm going to have a sugar-free peanut butter cup here and drink some water. You.
Get started. Ask the question, whatever it is. Go for it.
Well, to quote Paul again. As we just did, I've been stuck on 1 Timothy 1.12.
Now, what do you mean by stuck? This is something you've been meditating on or you've been sometimes, sometimes, I can't really explain it, but sometimes I'm reading the word and then all of a sudden I'll read a scripture. And my body will go, you better read that again. And I'll read it again, and my body will go, you need to read that again. And I'll read it over and over and over.
And there's something in my brain that won't let me leave it because there's something there that I haven't put together. Obviously, it's so if I got to move on from it until I get an answer.
So. When I say stuck, I mean the Lord. The Lord keeps highlighting this verse to me. It's like it's jumping off the page. Jumping off the page.
So I want to read it real quick. It's 1 Timothy 1:12. I thank Jesus Christ our Lord, who has given me strength that He considers me trustworthy, appointing me to His service. And I don't know, man.
Something about that is just so beautiful. Paul talks about it a lot in Timothy, him being the chiefest of sinners and the worst of sinners. The next verse actually says: Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly along with the faith and love that are in Jesus Christ.
So I don't know.
Something about it just keeps hitting me: this idea and this concept of the worst sinner of all time. The chiefest of sinners, the guy who who Was literally murdering Christians. The guy, when I did my first fast, and first time I read through the Bible. Before I got filled with the Holy Spirit, I said, I want to live a life like Paul. Does that mean I'm chief sinner number two?
I tell you what, you better be ready to get beat by some whips. But I understand what he means by the chief sinner because. You know, Joel, you and I were here on the job site.
Well A month and a half ago? Mm-hmm. And we just stopped what we were doing. You grabbed that Bible, you dropped it on the picnic table. And just read what opened it opened up to Solomon.
And in it, Solomon. This man that we all go, the wisdom guy, the king, he built the temple. But literally, As you're reading it, it's talking about him chasing strange women. Meaning, in the same scripture verse, it says. Yeah, and then it says, and he was worshiping in high places, which is altars, not to God.
But then it still says that he loved God with all of his heart, all of his soul, and all of his strength. And then the next chapter begins, which we put chapter and verse in there.
So the next sentence really begins with. Hey Solomon, this is God. What do you want? I want wisdom, God. Wait, wait, Solomon, you're chasing women, you whore.
Yeah. You're worshiping idols, you and your cell phone and your TV and Zachariah chapter 10, verse 1. And God's still coming to you? Yeah. So, you and I were blown away.
Blown. We texted that to everybody in the family, and everybody in the family was like, oh my gosh. And it started. This concept in us of wait a second. Even with sin, he loves us.
And I went to a men's ministry a few days after that. And literally asked him, I said, And I I need to preface what I'm about to say. With a little bit of wisdom here in that please don't take what I'm saying or we're talking about here and go run with it and think you're gonna go out get drunk tonight and whore around and then tomorrow you're gonna do an open air crusade. That's not what we're promoting. But literally, what I said to the men, and these are mature men, and I said to them: we meet at six in the morning, said, Hey, So many of you are stuck.
In a sinful mindset Not realizing God can still use you. That's not exactly what I said, but that's the best way I said it so that people out there don't take advantage of it and misconstrue my words. Right. We are so used to I have It's a mindset that we teach each other. In the church, outside of the church, and that's why the media and everyone laughs at us.
You have to be perfect. You have to obey all the rules. And by golly, you need to obey all the rules for a certain amount of time. Nobody knows how much time that is, but it's a certain amount of time. And if you don't obey all the rules and walk according to all those rules and on that narrow road for a certain amount of time, you cannot, you do not qualify for miracles, signs, and wonders.
But that's absolutely not. Nope. I mean, Adam, when he sinned, he hid from God. That's what sin does to us, drives us away from God. Create shame and guilt.
But then, yet, God walked through. Still looking to walk with him. God came into the garden already knowing what happened and was still looking to have a walk with Adam. And what did Adam do? He made up excuses.
He got religious. And he started, and he blamed it on his wife. And his wife blamed it on the serpent. And probably the serpent blames it on God. And yet, that's exactly what we do on a regular basis.
Absolutely. I mean, we run through life. I mean, I remember, here's the thing. I remember being 15, 16 years old, and I've. Thank the Lord.
I've seen miracles and signs and wonders my entire life. There will never be a question in my brain whether or not God is real. But I remember growing up and And it's like you were saying, in the church and the way we talk and the way we grow, we're so concerned about sin. Our brains are full of, all right, I better not sin. I better not mess up.
I remember being so nervous every time something wrong would happen that I'm gonna like get to heaven and God's gonna be like, Depart from me. I never knew you. And I'm gonna say exactly what it says in this Bible, but Lord, didn't I do all these things in your name? And He's gonna be like, Get away from me. That's the mindset that we have: this thing of, oh my gosh, I've sinned.
I'm so screwed, the Lord's gonna hate me forever. I'm basically the devil's now. The Bible talks about it, how people have been handed off to the devil before. That's me now. Yeah, you know, this thing.
And we're so stuck on the dwelling of sin that we're forgetting that that's been forgiven thousands of years ago. He took your sin as far as the east is from the west, before you were in your mother's womb. And replaced it with love. Because if you study that scripture. About as far as the east is from the west, his love abounds, has no length, breadth, or depth.
So, what happens when we get saved? It's almost like, not almost like, but if you compare those scriptures. Romans says he deposits in you. A measure. of himself.
A seed. He turns your heart from stone to flesh, meaning you have an emotional open. Heart. That's sensitive to him. And then love comes in.
And it begins pushing that sin out. That's, and we were talking about this last night after dinner. The sanctification process begins when that love enters in, and bit by bit by bit, it grows. We become mature, attaining to the fullness of God. That's what Paul says in the Ephesians prayers.
I pray that you would come into, that your eyes of understanding would be light, that you may know the hope. To which he's called you, which is maturity. No longer swayed back and forth by the cunning teachings of men, but rather attaining the fullness of Christ. That fullness of Christ begins the minute we give our heart to Jesus. Our heart goes from stone, goes to flesh.
Love enters in and it begins to push out sin. And the thing about the East is from the West. And you go east. When do you reach rest? You never do.
If you go west, when do you reach the east? You never do. If you go up, when do you reach the bottom? Never. You never.
So the length, the breadth, the depth, and the height, it's ever expanding. You're never going to make it. Kind of like the universe. Ever expanding. He spoke and it's still expanding.
So. All right, go back to that verse. We talked about the sin part. The first part of that, the chief sinner. I thank Jesus Christ our Lord, who has given me strength that He considers me trustworthy, appointing me.
The give me strength part. When I hear that part of the sentence, I think about All right, I'm going to do two parts here. I remember I was in Ah, India. Years ago, this couple decades ago. Um matter of fact It was 25 years ago because your mom was pregnant with you at the time, and she was in the U.S., and I was in India by myself.
And I and I heard a preacher An American preach. And he gave an example of grace. But he made it an acronym.
Okay. I don't know why we do this. I even got in the habit one time of everything had to be three names, and they all had to begin with an S or all with a P. That was popular a while back. But he said this: he goes, Grace is God's riches at Christ's expense.
And the whole sermon I was confused. I was just befuddled. Nothing was making sense. And I got up. And I went into a back room.
And I remember I laid on that con, it was a concrete building. I laid on the concrete floor, and I'm looking up at the ceiling. And the ceiling fan is doing one of these loop and spin, loop and spin things because we're having a brownout. And so there was very little electricity coming through.
So, one second because it was out of balance, it'd go fast, then it loop barely crawled in to spin. And I'm staring up at that, and I'm crying out to God. I said, God, I don't understand. I said, there must be something wrong with me because I don't understand grace. I'm actually more confused now after hearing that message than I was before.
I said, it used to be nothing I ever thought about. But now, after hearing that message, it's consuming my mind. I'm going, what am I missing? What am I doing wrong? What's wrong with me?
And the Lord spoke to me and He said, My definition of grace for you. Is total dependency upon me for all that you are and all that you do. And he gave me a scripture because I've always told God: if you're going to say something or want me to do something, give me a scripture, please, sir. And It's the scripture in which Jesus says. And I preach it now.
It goes all the way back to Isaiah 11. Where it's speaking of Emmanuel says he will do what he sees his father do, speak as he hears his father speak and save judgment for him. Him alone, he will be obedient to the cross. Then Jesus and John comes along and goes, I do only as I hear the Father do, I speak only as I hear the Father speak, and I say judgment for him alone. But Jesus said this about us: He goes, The day will come when I'll send the Comforter.
He'll tell you what to say, tell you what to do. I tell you, don't judge. You know, worry about the plank in your own eye.
So, Jesus is saying. It was prophesied about him, he fulfilled it. And now we're supposed to do it. And that's what grace is: total dependency upon God.
So when I hear Paul say that. His strength is not in his own strength. Paul was a strong man. He was a murderous man. He was very good at what he did before God got a hold of him.
And then, uh, Then he disappears for a while and he comes back, and now he's just totally dependent on God for everything he does. And that's what he's referring to there when he says that he gives me the strength. It's the Spirit of God that gives him strength. To do what he does.
Well, what do you think about Samson? The Spirit of God, it literally says in certain instances, right before battles, it says, the Spirit of God came upon him and he was endowed with strength. After they cut his hair off and they had him tied to the pillars, he literally said, Lord, give me strength. And then the Lord endowed him with strength and he pushed the pillars over and killed, what was it, 2,000 people? It was, yeah.
And that's, I mean, that's, that's our, that's our key. That's our, you know, we, we, we live our lives in this almost sense of we know we're not perfect and we know we're not the savior of the world. But the problem is we take almost like a false pride in our sinfulness as Christians. It's the false humility of that that keeps us from growing into maturity. Yeah.
I'll have to meditate on that one a little more.
So, all right, read that sentence again. I thank Jesus Christ our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. We've been appointed. The fact that if. Paul, our chiefest sinner, all right, if he's our top guy for bad things done.
And he has been considered trustworthy. and appointed by God for service. I don't see what any excuse we have is. Yeah, if we've been called. then that calling demands from us An obedience of service.
That You know, you've heard me say this: it's an itch that I cannot contain, I cannot control. Um when I met your mom.
Somebody, we were with somebody last night who was saying, Hey, he said, I love to hunt and fish. We're good. You know, this is before they got married. He said, if you're good with that, if you don't mind me going to hunt and fish once in a while, that's my love. That's my hobby.
And she was like, I'm good with that. I told your mom. I said Unless you're willing to go to the mission field. This ain't going to work. Yeah.
Because I will lose everything. I will give up everything to go to the mission field to go preach the gospel. And we have. We've lost everything three times. And, but God always restores it.
I don't can't explain it, not my place. I'm just being obedient, you know, and I can't stop other people from doing us what they want to do. I can only be obedient to what God has said to do. And For me, and she was the same way, we both knew before we met each other that we were called to that, appointed to that.
So that was our number one. thing when I was looking For a wife. Not that I was like, oh. I make that sound like I went to Walmart with your wife. That's not what happened.
Aisle 13. Yeah. Tall wives, aisle 13.
So. But It was, it literally was. I wanted a mature Christian who was at least as mature as I was. And who had a desire to go to the mission field? I didn't care about anything else.
I've still to this day. You know, early on, I said, I don't care about the house being spotless. I don't want to live in a museum. Yeah, I go to people's houses all the time and I see museums. I'm like, I don't want that.
I don't care about having a lot of stuff, not having a lot of stuff. I don't care about the house being this or that. I don't care about any of that. And people are like, you know, one of your sister-in-laws hired a maid. I know.
And I'm like, I don't care. Thank you. Praise God. But I've never put that demand on your mom. Yeah.
Because I'm like, the only thing I've ever asked of her, besides being a good wife and obviously a great mom and all that, is the mission field. Is that. you know, and we've sacrificed a lot to do that. But If we hadn't talked about it before we got married, it never would have happened. And then one of us, and I think that's really the whole equally yoked thing, too.
If How can you be equally yoked with somebody if you're called to go and they're not? Yeah. Even within Christianity, people want to think that being unequally yoked is a sinner and a Christian. No.
Well, sorry, you're all sinners. Yeah. You know, and there's a lot of people who one spouse is a Christian, the other isn't, and they have great marriages.
So that can't be the only. That is the religious answer, but it's not the real answer. I mean, think about how difficult it might have been for Peter. He was the only one of the disciples who was married. He had a wife who stayed at home the whole time.
And, you know, it wasn't exactly, it wasn't her call to walk with Jesus. Yeah. You know, and so we have, you know. Like you're saying, the equally yoked, you know, if we're looking for a person, and this is for the single people, including myself, you know, if we're looking for that person, and that you have to have those certain core values that you know, I'm not going to argue with this, with you on this. This is important, or we're not right for each other.
Right. You know, and that, so finding out who we are supposed to be is the first step in going, okay, great, this is who I am. This is what I'm going to be. And let's say we've, we've dedicated our life to this. Yeah.
We're going to, until Jesus calls us back, we're going to go and we're going to tell people about him.
So that's great.
So then, so me, I'm the, I'm the single one. If I'm out here looking for a wife and I have someone who doesn't like to travel and can't handle spicy food and is shy. That's going to be a problem. Or can't sleep in a hotel room that has tarantulas or lizards or scorpions in it because we've experienced all those. That's going to be a problem.
Because. It's gonna I can't pick a wife who's going to interfere with my greater call. Because you're you're a husband and a father, but before that, you're a son. Yeah. And that's your first responsibility.
I remember one time I got in trouble. I was, I had a big attitude as a kid. Big attitude. I love it. I love the last word.
I love it. But I remember I was arguing with mom, and she walked away and came back. And dad came up to me, and we talked for a few minutes, and I got in a little bit of trouble. It was fine. But then he said to me, He said, 'Listen to me.' It is God.
Your mom And then you guys. There is nobody. in between on that. That is the order, and that is the order it will stay in forever. And that's how it has to be.
You can't find somebody who's. Because if you marry somebody who's not equally yoked for you. And they're not living the same life you're in. I bet you get distracted faster than they do. Yeah, because it's a lot easier to live in Sin and in the world than it is to live this life.
It's a lot easier. I mean, you know how easy it is. We make mistakes every day. All you have to do to live that Easy life. It's just wake up on tomorrow.
Mm-hmm. To live A purposed life. I don't like that. Anyway, somebody made millions of dollars off that word. And I'm not referring to that.
What I'm referring to is to live the God kind of life. Um It's a battle. Yeah. You enter into the battle. You enter into...
I used to describe it like this as... And maybe it's 'cause I heard her from somebody else when I was younger. Is that the devil was looking across Christianity. And every once in a while, somebody tries to climb up above the rest of them, and he sees it, and he comes running at you with the fiery darts and everything, trying to scare you back into the fold. Yeah.
But when you make that choice, you get that call, and you begin to crawl out. From among the rest of the sheep. Which sounds bad. Um He notices. And he comes after you.
And so I've always, I have a, we have a good, some friends that, if we were, if your mom and I were to see them right now. today or tomorrow, we'd have a great time hanging out with them. But years ago I realized we were on a different plane. Which I'm that way with even my best friend and you know, some of those people. But He was pretty much of the mindset of if you are a tribulator, if you're experiencing trials and tribulations, it's just because you're in sin.
I'm of the mindset that anybody who's doing what they're supposed to be doing for God is going to experience trials and tribulations. Paul said, consider it all joy when the world hates you. That's right. And even Jesus said, they're going to treat you worse than they treated me. It's a promise.
And so, and trials and tribulations come for what? The perfection of the saints. That's right. For me I want people around me. who struggle and failed.
and struggled and won. We've already won. But We still have to walk it out. And when there's a gentleman And I'm just going to be frank. In this, there's a gentleman that.
If I were to meet him, well, I did meet him in church. And uh I was like, not interested in being friends with a guy like that. Just not. He's not my kind of guy. Mm-hmm.
There's nothing wrong with that. Then a few weeks later. I realize he's hearing from the Holy Ghost. I'm like.
Okay, God. That's good. Then a few weeks after that, he says something along, and I got to watch him more and I realized he's hearing from the Holy Ghost. And the best way I can say it is this is that en route over a period of time to these meetings where he was going, He was the leader. And I would pray.
And as I would pray. I would know what the topic of the conversation was going to be, and I would start to meditate and pray on those things. I used to do that with different pastors. We've even done it with Pastor Josh, where I don't know if I'm hearing from the Holy Ghost. I know you're hearing from the Goliath.
Why? Because I'm writing your sermon out on Saturday nights. Yeah. You're hearing from the Holy Ghost. Yeah.
You know, so and they go, Well, you're hearing from the Holy Ghost. Yes, but if I'm hearing it, you're hearing it. We're both hearing from the Holy Ghost. Two or more gathered. Yes.
And I've even written them out before and handed them to them and just a few word changes, you know. And it's an amazing testimony, but I realized it about this man. And I was like, and I, and he one day goes, well, I don't know if I hear from the Holy Ghost. I'm like, oh boy, here we go. And I said, yes, you do.
And I said it a little belligerently. Yeah. Because I'm going, you dummy. Yes, you do. And I'm the one who's not so happy about it.
Let's be honest. We want God to move through us and not other people. But I'm learning to love that when I see Him moving through other people. And I said to him, I know you're hearing from the Holy Ghost. What do you mean?
I said, Because every time on the way here, I pray, I know what you're going to talk about before you do it. What? I said So then the next one, I told somebody ahead of time. Me and you, I'm talking about this. Or he's talking about that.
And he got on. And then somebody goes.
Well, did you hear it? And I didn't have to say anything. The other guy goes, he did. And they're like, what? He told me what he was going to say before he said it.
And people go, How do you do that? It's not you who does it, it's the Holy Spirit in you. But now that guy has come to me and goes, I had an encounter with the devil. Yeah. Awesome.
Now you got my attention. Awesome.
And he tells me. And it's very similar to ones I've had. And I'm going, okay, this guy's into spiritual warfare. He's truly in spiritual warfare. You know, a lot of people go, spiritual warfare.
You know, I got drunk last night and couldn't control myself. That's not spiritual warfare. Yeah. That's, I mean, there's a few odd instances where it can, but a lot of people are just stupid and then they blame the devil for it. Yeah.
And then, but in this instance, the devil's coming, had come at me and made an offer. But Something similar happened to him. He didn't get an offer, but he was starting to have these experiences going. What do I do? And I'm going, one, you rejoice.
Yeah, you get fired up. You are now getting confirmation from your enemy that he's terrified of you and that you're on the right track.
So now I'm going, okay, God, here's a guy. That I need to help. And He's not really my kind of guy. Yeah. I'm a hillbilly, but he's...
A redneck. I mean, I'm a hat field, he's a McCoy. You know what I mean? It's that kind of difference. Right.
So, but it's like, oh. And so I think When we talk about How did we get on this? Uh We're talking God, man. I know. So, the amazing thing, though, is that we want people in the foxhole who've been through battles.
Yeah. We want wisdom from people who've been in the foxholes. When I was in the military, they tried to put a guy with me. I said, no way. No way.
I was a corporal. In the war. I was like, that guy is not getting in my foxhole. And they looked at me and said, why? I said, because he'll run.
He's either going to run or he's going to pee his pants. I don't want either of those in my foxhole. I was arrogant, you know, and I was soldier the year, so I thought I knew something.
So they put a Vietnam vet. There were still a few of those in the military. And this guy, Stephen Gray, was a Vietnam vet. And he comes up, he goes, I'm getting in your foxhole. I was like, absolutely.
Because I knew he'd been in the war before. I knew he knew what he was doing. And I had the best foxhole. I mean, we had a big foxhole. I mean, we, we, I had it, and I had.
access stuff stuff. Take care of it. Yeah, I had, so he's like. And we got in the foxhole one night. He goes, There's just a lot of dummies I don't want to be around.
I'm like, yeah. You know, and there's people freaking out and doing all that. But he and I remained calm, did our job. You know what I mean? You do your job, you remain calm.
It's the same way in Christianity and prayer and all that. I, I. I don't want to be. You know, somebody asked me, Hey, you want to get together for prayer? I said, No.
Yeah. What? How could you not get together for prayer? I'm like.
You really want me? I keep my mouth shut, but in my mind, I'm going, You really want me to tell you? I know what's going to happen. You guys are going to get together for an hour. You're gonna pray For ten minutes.
And we're going to talk. And then we're going to talk about all your problems for 50 minutes. I'm not interested in doing that. If you want to get together for prayer, let's get together for prayer. You go on that side of the building, I go on this side of the building.
In an hour, let's get together and see what God told us. And we'll shake hands and walk out of the door. Yeah, I don't need to talk. I don't need to talk. If He needs to reveal something to me, He's going to reveal it to me.
That to me is a prayer session. And so, you know, I'm just like, I'm. I'm not interested in going to your prayer session because I don't want to talk for 45 minutes. I'm not a girl. Right.
Sorry, ladies, but you know, I'm just, I'm not that way. I can do it on the radio, I can do it on a stage, I can do it when the anointing comes on me, but I don't want to do it in a prayer group. It's not prayer. Right. Well, and you know, I mean, so many times those things just turn into these woe is me's.
Yeah. It's, it's like, it's like as soon as we start. I don't know why, but everything about the church and religion, and oh, we're going to have a prayer night. And then the prayer night is suddenly becoming this thing of, oh, I'm really not looking for God to move. I'm really just, everybody, this is what's going on with me.
And things were sad, and I'm really struggling right now. But the Lord is faithful. They don't mean that. You can't complain for 45 minutes about something and then go, well, you know, God's got it.
Well, your mind doesn't tell me He has it. Yeah, I will say this in defense of them. David starts many of his Psalms. with the problem. But he always jumps into rejoicing and celebration and the God mindset.
And the problem with a lot of people is they dwell on the negative, they dwell on the bad, they dwell on the sin mindset. That's all fallen nature mindset. They haven't encouraged themselves in the word. They haven't. You were doing something for a while, and I used to do it when I was younger.
I still do it sometimes, but really, this whole show, you did it. And what did you do? You read the word this morning. You read more than one sentence, right? Yeah.
But that one sentence got you.
So now you're meditating.
Now we're having a conversation about that sentence. What's going to happen with that sentence? It's going to go down into your spirit. It's going to go down into your heart. You'll think about it tomorrow.
You'll think about it for the next week. Then that sentence gets in your spirit and it becomes part of who you are. And that's how you learn the word. That's also the process of sanctification. It is.
How can we go from that next level up? You were just talking about trials and tribulations. And if trials and tribulations are for the perfecting of the saints, that means you just passed a trial and a tribulation. Boom, you just leveled up. You have a higher access to God.
Because. God is not, it's not one level to God. Newborn Christians do not have the same relationship with God as someone, as, as, as, as Boo-Boo and Lulu's mom in India, who's been, who's been praising the Lord for 65 years. I tell you right now, you better be right with the Lord if you go see her. But newborn Christians don't have that because they don't know.
They don't have this experience of walking and talking with God. And, you know, and then we get into church and then our religion starts picking up and we start building these laws around us when really the only law was love. And then, and then we're still sucking this, oh my gosh, I messed up again. I'm going to hell tomorrow. And well, I screwed up.
Guess that means the devil can do whatever he wants to me today. When in reality, Cut that out. Go, actually, no, I don't need to think about sin at all. I need to think about Jesus. And then, from a byproduct of thinking about Jesus, I'm going to have the mind of Christ.
I'll give you an example of the mind of Christ in a mistake of my own. You were a baby. And we had some people come after us for jealousy. Miracle, signs, and wonders were the. Sake of the gospel.
And there were miracles, signs, and wonders. There were words being delivered, accurate words. I remember at one instance, I was sitting in a room, and this couple's pouring their heart out. And my chest is burning because all I can think about is God's not a band-aid God, He's a healer. And they had heard.
That sometimes Brother John gets a word.
Okay. So they would keep, they were sharing what was going on in their lives, and they're crying a little bit. And other people in the room gave good answers. Good answers. Out of their soul.
Mm-hmm. And as they were getting the answers, none of them were right. and this couple starts glancing at me. And my chest is on fire. And I finally just blurted out.
I remember the first sentence. I blurted it out. They start crying because once I took that step to say the first sentence, then the revelation came. And God spoke directly to them about things that they had not revealed to people. And everybody else in the room is going, oh boy.
But it led to jealousy. This couple praising God, thanking God that they heard from God. I'm like scared now because I usually get scared when that happens because I'm like, oh, did I do it right, God? Yeah. And.
But there were other people in the room who were jealous and they came after us. That was in another country. They came after us in the United States. And I was on the crusade field, and I got a call. from uh your mom saying hey Our support's drying up.
And what it was is this person had somebody who was in the mailroom and they were sending our Monthly support back to the churches and the pastors and everyone, which had after that happened, I was like, never again, never again will I be dependent on finicky pastors and churches. But That man that did that. Another preacher. About three months later, I'm in another count another state. Getting ready, I'm attending a missions conference, the same missions group we're part of.
And We got there on fumes. And your mom is with our friends and all of our friends and family out there. And I'm out there every day mowing grass. In order to make money to get home on. Go to the services at night.
Yeah. And then, so every morning, there were three services a day.
So I'd go to each service and then I'd go Mo. Go to each service, and then I'd go mow. And I'd change in the bathroom at the church. And at the end of the service, there would be grass all on the carpet from where I'd been. Yeah.
And I did this all week long. At the end of the week, the guy paid me a hundred bucks. And I was like, no. Oh no! You know, like, and so, I mean, back then, you can get cross-country for $100.
Not now. You can get out of the state for $100, but you ain't getting cross-country.
Well, Here's the thing is that whole week I'm on that Tractor. complaining. Moaning and groaning about what's happened to us. On Thursday, After five days of moaning, groaning, and complaining, I just said, I'm done with this God. And I just started blessing the guy.
I just started. I said, every blessing I've ever wanted, everything I've ever asked you for, God, give it to him. Give him every miracle, sign, and wonder, anything you've ever wanted. And I just laid it all out. I said, bless him, multiply him, blah, blah, blah.
You know, I'm. And then God spoke. Mm. Moaning and groaning and complaining. Mm.
to praise in and blessing. A man who had done you evil. A man who had done me evil. Who you had every right to cry out to God against. Oh, yeah.
And who I wanted to expose because I knew what he had done and I figured it out and was about to, let's go root this ministry, this evil out of the ministry, right? And this is what God said to me. After all that happened. And I knew I was in the right. God said this to me, and He said, my love for him outweighs your opinion of him.
Then on Sunday after that, I mean, it blew me away. I shared that with everyone, they're all like, whoa. And my friend. You know him. John Smithwick literally looked at me and goes, bro.
Every time I look at him he's staring at you with tears in his eyes. I'm like, cause he knows what he did. or whatever it is.
Well, at the end of the Conference. Sunday afternoon, we're walking up towards each other because he said Smithwick says, Hey, bro, look. And I see him, so I just start walking towards him. I'm forgiving him now. It's all off my chest.
I'm done. Yeah. As I start walking to him, he begins to cry. My chest begins to burn. I'm like, God, you're giving him a word?
And I get up to him and I hug him. I step back and blah. It comes out. He starts bawling. It was all right on what God wanted to say.
And he looked at me, he goes. There's one thing I know. You hear from God. And that was absolutely spot on. Thank you.
And then, of course, he invited me to preach in his church years later, which I never did because I don't itinerate, really. But it was such a lesson for me because you've been around, other people have done dumb stuff. You and your brother growing up saw dumb stuff happen. Yeah. And it, for a while, almost turned you guys off to Christianity.
Because here we are. Doing miracle signs and wonders, and I'm being facetious here. Doing miracle signs and wonders, preaching crusades, seeing, you know, I've preached easily. I'm just going to say a million. It's way more than that, but I don't ever count.
We've been doing radio for years, so how many people do we reach through that? You know, every week we get comments about the Spotify or the radio show, right? And. And it's just.
So we've had ministry. We've had plenty of ministry. We've never made any money off ministry. We still work secular jobs. We own companies.
We work our hand. We're doing this episode because it's raining today. And you've seen us fight. You've seen us struggle. And I remember praying when you were a younger man, going, God, don't let their hearts.
Be destroyed because of what's happening to us. Because our trial is our trial, not yours. And yet, at the same time, you've seen God take those trials five, six, seven, eight years later. And turn them into incredible things. Yeah.
Where you go, and I mean, where we've had to forgive people and walk in love, going, I wonder if that'll ever, and then. Two years later, God brings those people and he has you restore them. Yeah. Even though they did evil to you, he now has you in a place of restoring them. You know, they still have everything you don't have.
But they just need to be restored. And so we're opening doors. We're doing things. And I don't hold a grudge of any kind about that. Praise God.
Because I'm going, if God trusts me enough, fix enemies. People who thought they were my enemy. But for us to reach out and bless them, and now they're part of what we do. And nobody knows who they are, but they're making an impact now. And yet, 15 or 20 years ago, they tried to destroy us.
And now they've come around. You know what I mean? And you go, wow. I mean, it's like. That's only God.
Yeah. But Those are the kinds of people I want to hang around with. Yeah. I want to hang around people who. I would not have said this 20 years ago that tried to destroy me.
When people try to destroy you, you're like, I don't ever want to see them again. And then God's like, oh no, yes, you will, because you're going to be the one that puts them back in ministry. You're going to be the one that helps them back on their feet. And you're like, what are you doing, God? I mean, one of them happened a few years ago, and I called Pastor Josh and said, I think God wants me to restore this guy.
I mean, it's like within a two-week period, I ran into him like every other day. Hadn't seen him in 15 years, and now I'm seeing him every day. I'm going, God, what are you doing? Yeah. You know, and in our, you know, people like you said, going, hey, John, do you.
Um No, so-and-so, yeah. Do you think they should come here to the underground church? Absolutely. Yeah. And they're like, okay, if you trust him, we trust him.
And I'm going, if you guys are hearing about him from God. Why are you asking me? I'm not going to be the guy that is a stumbling block for him. If it's God, he's going. Because we've had other people who were knuckleheads like.
You know, people who, because everybody's a knucklehead sooner or later. And we've had knuckleheads come along and go, How could you able to get into that underground church? And we can't. I'm like, because you're a knucklehead. You're a professional Christian.
You're a professional preacher. And they can't afford that. They can't afford you coming over and destroying them and getting them all sent to jail.
Now, in that church, that underground church, the qualification for leadership is that you've spent time in jail for preaching the gospel.
So go figure. Yeah. But we still try to protect them so that our friends and family. Over there, don't end up in jail? Right.
You know, we don't want people being persecuted. Because who's to say that? you know I'm not going to name the mention of the leader of that country, but who's to say that guy's not going to turn around and go, all right, now as of today, we're crucifying Christians. Right. You know, because I know they're already crucifying Christians in India.
Yeah. You know, so anyway, how do we get on that topic? We didn't pick a topic, that's why. Oh, okay. We're just talking God.
We're talking God. Oh my goodness. I mean, it's it you're right though about the the restoration and and it was I mean I remember when that happened and I'm you know a lot younger and a lot less mature than you were in that moment and I was angry. I was angry, angry, angry. And I didn't like those people for a long time.
I wouldn't say anything negative about them, but in my heart, I did not like them. And. and when the Lord opened that door, For restoration? It I I mean It was like a flip. of a switch and I was like, oh my gosh, this is the most incredible thing that's ever happened.
This is cooler than miracles. I know. Because this is a miracle. It is a miracle. Oh, my gosh.
What on earth? And then, and then, you know. to see those people go out and be all that the Lord's called them to be. Came and spoke at our conference. Crushed.
And crushed it. Top five word I've ever heard in my life. That's right. And you're going. Wow.
Yeah. You know, and then when we get feedback from that conference, they're all like, please bring that guy back. Please bring him and his family back. And we're like, yes, yes. Absolutely.
I'm like fired up about it. I like, it literally was, it's a flip of a switch where I was like, my brain, I don't even see that anymore. Like, it's not, it's just like, it's like, oh my gosh, like, I'm not really good at forgetting things. Yeah. But, like, East is from the West.
That's right. And it's just like, oh my gosh, now, Lord, what do you want to do with this? That's right. Oh, my gosh. This is so much better than hating them for the rest of our lives.
It's just way better. You know what I mean? So, I mean, it's it's. It's hard. It's hard.
It took a long time. It's worth it, though. It took a long time. A long time and then Suddenly you see 15 years between What the devil tried to use for destruction and God turned into good. Fifteen years.
I saw a thing. said. The demonic attacks persist. But so does God. Yeah.
And I mean that's The the attacks are a good thing. Yeah. There's still a good thing. I can't we every time we get a flat tire I I kind of get a little fired up. I know flat tires, not really spiritual warfare, but it's flat tires suck.
And when it happens, it's, oh my gosh, what is this? We get flat tires. I'm like, well, we must be doing something right. Think about what happened in Florence. Yeah.
And we were coming back from. You and I were coming back from working in Houston, and we were pulling the little RV and we. We had our someone we're mentoring with us. And we get to Perry, Georgia, to meet your wife, your wife, and your sister. There we go.
And her horse. And we have to hook that trailer up.
So now we're driving the truck and the suburban, both towing a horse trailer and an RV. And you guys called me in Augusta and said, Truck won't start or the suburban won't start. And some guy beat it. I said, beat the starter. Broke the starter on me.
And he did, got it started, but in doing so, he frayed a wire, which caused a short. And even though the engine was running, when you got to the next place, the battery was blown, the starter was totally gone, and it wouldn't start again. And so we pulled up.
Okay, we got to roll the SUV and the RV away from the gas pump. And we rolled it down to the edge, said, okay. Your mom and your sister and my nephew. Take the horse trailer, take the truck, and go. Right?
Get everybody home. Joel and I will stay here with the SUV, get it fixed. And then a guy who actually did us wrong years ago, where my people are like, there are people who have said, you should have no contact with that guy. Yeah. And I've said, no, no, there's a reason that guy's in my life.
And I called him. I said, You know anybody in this town? He goes, Yeah. I'll be there in five minutes. And he got there faster than that.
We sat down, ordered our food, sat down. He walked through the door and brought a mechanic. And he introduces me to the, he introduces us to the mechanic by saying, You know that guy I told you about that changed my life? Mechanic just doesn't go, that's him? And mechanic goes, This guy?
That's who you were talking about he knew instantly. Yeah, I'm like That's odd. How did your friend instantly know who I am? Because he'd been bragging about what we had done for him, teaching him a whole new career, getting him started, helping him, mentoring him, all that, right? And I'm not a great mentor because I do a lot of fly-by-to-city your pants stuff.
But. It changed his life, right? Right. And that guy, even when we were under, he was under the car, throwing a starter out, taking the battery out. He'd stick us out, fiery darts, brother John, fiery darts.
You know, he kept talking about the whole thing. We're talking God. He's talking God and just going, fiery darts, brother John, fiery darts. Yeah. Um Then we find out.
20 miles up the road. While we're waiting for our starter, and the starter was what, three hours? He was fixed in three hours. 30 minutes after he got there, we get a phone call that a tire blew on the truck on the trailer on the trailer, and they didn't have a jack. Yep.
So we got there three hours later. 20 miles up the road, we get there three hours later, and we're all just like going, What is going on? And then my hand? Your hand got crushed. But there was nothing and not a dent.
They took the jack out while my hand was still under the tire, and the ground and the tire and my hand were in between that. And I mean, it took us 20 seconds to get it off. Yeah. We finally lifted it off. There wasn't a scratch on my hand.
I should have lost fingers. Yeah. And the neat thing is, is that whole situation. We were like, what's going on? We were praising God.
Nobody was complaining. Nobody was crying. I remember we were coming up I-95, just praising God, going, What is about to happen? What are we trying to be held back from? You know, that's how we saw.
That series of events versus, but here's one of the things that happened: that's also the day. We were broke down. That couple pulled up to the gas pump. Pulling that U-Haul trailer. Yep.
They had two kids with them. Honestly, not a couple that I would. If I'm near him, I would be nice, say hi, how are you doing? But not the kind of people I'd want to have a conversation with. Not not my kind of people, right?
But I saw them sitting there for a long time.
So I went over and talked to him. out of gas, trying to get to Atlanta. And I was like, I'll help you. And I filled up their credit, their tank on my credit card. I said, by the way, you know, most people get upset if you rock the car to put as much gas in as you can.
I said, rock it. Rock the truck and put as much gas in it as you can. And the guy goes, Really? I said, Yeah. And I said, By the way, have you guys eaten dinner?
No, we're out of money. We don't have money. I said, whoa. I said, two things. One, you're not getting Atlanta from here with the gas that you're getting, even if we rock that car.
And two, you need to feed your kids. Mm-hmm. Here's money. And I gave them like 120, 100, somewhere around that. Yeah.
I said, make sure you get enough gas, get some food. And they were just freaking out. Who are you? And I was able to say, hey, I'm just here I am, but I got a Spotify account. Listen to that as you drive.
You know, and you're just like...
Okay. But that opened the door for us to talk to them and minister to them. Who are broken down, How Can We Be Jesus? And my whole thing with God was, I said, I don't want to be a preacher. I don't want to have a ministry.
I don't care about any of that. As far as and this when I got burned the first time, my first trip out of the country in the early nineties, After the Gulf War and Some people lied about me. And I came back and I said, God, you can take preachers and ministers and all of them, let them burn in hell for all I care. I don't want to do it. But do you have people in need?
Send me to them or send them to me. Hmm. And then when I end up in situations like that. Which now is like every other day, seems like it's like, okay, God. You know, and I only tell the stories at a few years old so that I don't.
Over I don't want people like I met a guy I mean, there's one particular guy. I'm not going to tell his story for a few months. You know, I can't. And just there's got to be some distance between them. But it's neat because.
You can meet people. and blessed them and loved them And and it's all and people say, How did you get to that place? I just believed. I started believing what the word said instead of what people were telling me. That's the best way to explain it.
And so then I did what you did today. I started meditating on the word. One word after another, one word after another. Every day I'd find a sentence and I'd meditate on that sentence. Right.
So. Mm, you know. I remember other missionaries one time, we were all getting a car. and they were arguing and fussing and fighting with each other. And I wouldn't get involved.
And I'd just look out the window and Repeat a scripture that I'd read. Um all day. It's like no. And um I was not going to get into their babble and their. gossip and all that and their arguments.
And then one day somebody said in the car, How come, Brother John, how come you see so many miracles, signs, and wonders? And before I can answer, because I didn't have an answer. One of the other person the girl one of the girls in the car says Because of what he's doing right now.
Okay. staring out the window, speaking a word. Memorizing a word. Meditating on the word, and it got really quiet in that car. And the other person was like, Yeah, he's never gotten involved in our gossip and our rumors and our arguments, has he?
I didn't say a word, just went on. But that proceeded to create some jealousy. Yeah. You know? And so it's it, but the thing is, is.
In that, people go, whoa. God is real. When they get a word from God, They go, God's real. And their life has changed because.
Somebody who's trying, I'm not perfect. You're not perfect. We're not perfect. Um, I probably feel like I live in Romans chapter 6 more than anyone else. And I I'm like, God, how do I live like this?
Because there's so many days that I just feel like a. The worst. You know? Yeah. And yet, right there in the midst of that sinful mindset.
Yeah. I'm like going I'm so far from sanctified. But yet God Continues to use me or my wife or my kids or whomever. I'm like.
Summs I don't know. It doesn't match up with what we see in the church. Only one perfect man. Only one. Our job is simply: how can we be Jesus to people?
That you may know the hope to which you have been called. no longer swayed back and forth by the cunning teachings of men, but rather attaining to maturity, and to the fulness of Christ. It begins with that you may be rooted and grounded in love. Hmm. Rooted and grounded in love.
when rooted and grounded in love. Oh. Psalm 1 says that you would be an oak of righteousness planted by the streams of living water. That's what it means to be rooted and grounded in love. And When you worship God, you celebrate God, you talk to God, you become that oak.
Living by the streams of water. And so the sap that flows through Jesus. John chapter 17. 13, 14, and 15, and 17. I am the vine, and you are the branch.
And he goes from there talking about the I am the vine to you are the branch and producing fruit to abiding in him. And when we remain in vital living contact with him, By reading and praying and talking his word. And inviting him into our daily lives. Mm-hmm. It changes our it changes us.
And then as a result, it changes those around us. even without a ministry. Even without a ministry. I'm going to say something, and I don't say this out of arrogance. And I don't say this as a blanket statement.
But when you look at the statistics Less than, I'm going to say it this way: less than 25% of the church. It's preaching. Scriptually. There's some recent studies that says it's lower than that.
So I would say this that Probably 75% of pastors out there. are preaching opinion, self-help. And All that good kind of junk. They're knuckleheads. Knuckleheads.
But... You have a percent of the church, which lines up with what Matthew says, Jesus said in Matthew.
Some word goes here, some word goes there, some falls on gravels, rocky, but 25%. But then you look at that 25% and compare that to the number of those who have been filled with the Holy Spirit, the 10 virgins, only half of them.
So you're talking 13.5% are probably. Operating the way they're supposed to.
So we can only hope and pray that there's one in every state and in every country. But I say this that I meet pastors all the time. who were scared of me. And I see it on their faces. Yet I'm not a pa I don't claim to any title.
I don't claim to be this. I don't claim to be that. I'm just Brother John. But they're scared of me. But then they're also like, how do you do what you do?
Uh At this point, it's just total dependency upon God. That's it. And I don't need 60 people showing up on Sunday morning to approve me. of what he's called me to do. If the king's already appointed you, why do you need validation anywhere else?
That's right. That's right. And, and, But it's sad because you have a whole church. That's what the public sees. That's what the media sees, and that's what the church or the public and the media makes fun of.
And those are the pastors that, when you get around them, you find out about the hypocrites and the pastor that did this and the pastor that did that. And you're just like, Are you serious? And that's why there's 242 verses talking about bad shepherds. You know, and so it boils down to when you're out there, if you're listening. Oh my gosh, I can't imagine.
I mean, I'm so thankful that 30 years ago, I got into a decent church. That said, study the word. How do you study the word? Like this. Yeah.
Because I could only imagine. You know, I mean. I hear it from people all the time. I had such a great and glorious experience with Jesus, and then I started going to church. And what happened?
Yeah. You know, how come my salvation experience was so amazing? And then I go to church, and it's almost like it was all wrong. You know, it's like because the church isn't preaching the gospel, they're not preaching the truth. Right.
Which is sad. Yeah. It's so sad. And I'm glad to see the church waking up to that. Yeah.
The real church. COVID exposed a lot of Fake sheep or fake shepherds. And Um They took the money. You know, they took the money. I've met so many pastors that took the money.
And then, as they get talking to me, they start confessing, and they're like, Yeah, we just don't understand why people aren't coming back. Because people realize you're a frog. I mean, I hate to say it any other way. First off, I'm standing right here next to you. I've listened to you for 30 minutes, and you haven't said anything that indicates to me that you're even called of God.
Okay. Let's start with that. You got into, most preachers get into, in America, not overseas, in America, get into ministry because it's a job. Our publisher even asked me about that. Hey, what do you know about this guy?
Is he a job, or is it a career guy, or is he a preacher? I'm like, I don't know who that is. Why are you asking me? Well, you wrote about it. You can tell.
I'm like, no, no, no, no. I can ask questions and determine if somebody is. But. They're not going to know I'm doing it. Right.
Because I'm not out to try to bust people. Right. So I Like on this show, I won't tell you the names of people I've met. Right. You know.
We'll close with this story. We've talked to God, right? Yeah. Sorry, Joel. Oh, I know you got so much in you, and I feel like I've dominated this, but.
Yeah. When you were younger. I went to a conference. And it was the preacher who looked perfect. Yeah.
That vision. And in that vision. The man in real life, I can see him, is walking this direction, but up above where he had been on the left side, the right side of the auditorium, he's lifted up. And uh God's showing me His perfect hair. His perfectly groomed eyebrows, his perfect skin.
It looked like he had one of those, you know, like tombstone 20 cent. Razor and cream shaves, showed me his collar and his tie, and his tie was perfect, had the little dimple in it, and his shirt was perfect. And I saw his coat, and I knew, you know, Spirit of God, I knew that it was a custom-made suit. And then I see his hands, and I see the cuff of his. Shirt sticking out from under there, and I can see his gold cuff link.
I see his beautiful watch and his perfectly manicured hands. I'm getting to his pants, and his pants have a perfect crease in them. And the thought occurs to me: man, his shoes are gonna be spit shine perfect. Former soldier, I'm thinking. If this guy's just perfect, his shoes are going to be Spitshine perfect, right?
Yeah. And I get to his shoes. and their hooves. As dirty as our shoes are right now from walking in all that mud out there from the rain, that's what they looked like: muddy, dirty. dirty, sloppy, slimy quotes.
I can go. like a goat. And I recoil. And when I did, the Holy Spirit said, How beautiful are the feet of those who carry my gospel. Yeah.
I jumped up. I wanted to throw up. I smelled it too. I wanted to throw up and I ran out of the auditorium. There was.
700 people in there. And I ran out. I go in the lobby and from one end of the lobby to the other are merchandise tables with white sheets over them until service is over. Just from one end of the lobby to another. Probably I'm going to say twenty tables of merchandise to buy.
I couldn't go back. He was going to preach again. I was like, I'm not listening to that guy. Yeah. But it was shocking because He was not a top-tier famous preacher, but he was B-grade.
And if I said his name, many of people who. are listening Would know who he was, and you can find him on the internet. And he died. A year or two later, in a very unusual way, in a way that it's like. How did that happen?
Well, it was judgment, is what it was. Yeah. But who was I at that age? I was your age. Who was I at that age to tell people that?
Yeah. I couldn't tell people that. I mean, I told your mom. I shared a couple other people, but I and I couldn't reveal to people what his name was, you know, because it was like, um, yeah. That's not why it was given to you.
No, it wasn't given to me to bust the guy. Yeah. It was given to me to teach me a truth. And. It's just, it's one of those things that you just go.
Okay, God, why? Did you reveal that to me? You know, and I understand why. And I mean, even now, at my age, I'm probably about the age he was. I'm like.
I don't want to become that guy. Right. I don't want. To be that scary, scary, yeah, it's so scary, yeah, and that's not something most people experience, yeah, you know, but I have. And uh you know I have to share it.
I have to reveal it. People need to know God's still in control, you know, and that reveals it. Yeah. But at the same time Scripture says that they preach to tickle your ears. They tell you what you want to hear.
They preach a message that makes you feel good. Doesn't mean it's God. You know, because. I'm telling you, Job's God. And Job, so many people out there have the wrong idea of Job, and Job's idea was one thing.
If I could just have my heart's desire. My heart's desire. And his heart's desire was not his, wasn't his wife, his kids, his home, his money, his popularity, his stature, the king bowing to him, the judges standing up for him. It was none of that. He had one desire.
And the neat thing is, the book of Job reveals. the hypocrisy of his so-called friends. Is really what it does. And I say they're not his friends, they're his bad friends. They're his fair-weathered friends who come now that he's having trouble.
Yeah. And now they're trying to give him advice. And at the end, God says, stand up and brace yourself like a man. I'm going to question you like a man. And you will take it.
You're going to take it. And yet, Job's whole thing was: if I could just have my heart's one desire: the presence of God. Hmm. That's it. And I mean How how Even now.
How do we develop the presence of God? I mean, I can teach it. But I still have to get up and do it in the morning. Yeah. I still have to.
I still have to Practice it. You know, I've not arrived. The gifts and the callings come without repentance.
So I could probably still, you know, if I were to quit praying and talking to God. I don't know for a few years or forever until I pass. I probably could still operate in miracle signs and wonders. But. Doesn't mean that I'm walking with Jesus.
Yeah. Which is terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. Then you become that goat.
Yeah. Oh, it's a fine line. There's a highway to hell and a. Stairway to heaven. It's a tightrope.
Tightrope. But the tightrope's not created by rules and regulations. The tightrope. Is the is love. And you have to stay on that.
That's why Paul said, make this the greatest quest of your life. The greatest achievement of your life should be to become love. That was what Paul considered it. He said, Make this the greatest accomplishment, the greatest journey, the greatest quest of your life to follow after love, to become love. Because he used the word agape, to become love.
All the rest of it just happens. And then what happens? Men come along. Here's a good example. William Seymour Yeah.
William Seymour resisted the organization, resisted the plots and popularity. He resisted turning it into a church. But then after a couple of years, he yielded. And Frank Bartleman came along. the day after they put the sign up in front.
And put a lock on the chur on the barn doors. and turned it into a church. And at that moment when he saw the sign, the Spirit of the Lord said to him, This is the beginning of the end. And then if It wasn't long after that that rules and regulations became the norm. The rules and, oh, we have to do this.
Other people got involved and they screwed it up. Frank Baltiman comes here to North Carolina and starts preaching the gospel here and then prophesied about a revival happening in the last days here. In Eastern North Carolina. In Eastern North Carolina. And one of the things I find so amazing about that.
Is out of that Azusa Parnham experience. Yeah, out of that's a zoos and parnum experience. that traveled From Wichita, Kansas, Topeka, Kansas, to Houston, where it got on to Seymour to Azusa. was birth the assemblies of God. Yeah.
And there were men who decided Let's turn it into a denomination. We'll call it the assemblies of God. And they invited Parnham. They invited John G. Lake.
They invited all these other famous, what we call God's generals, and none of them would join. And they said, why? Because none of this happened because of rules and regulations. This happened by the Spirit of God. And they didn't agree with the whole baptism of the Holy Spirit is proven by speaking in tongues, which is not scriptural.
Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, but it is not the only evidence of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, You receive power. And if you receive the Holy Spirit, you're going to receive love because the Holy Spirit is love.
So, this business of if you speak in tongues, you're filled with the Holy Spirit.
Well, then let me take you to Iraq and introduce you to some Muslims who speak in tongues. Let me take you to Utah and introduce you to some Mormons who speak in tongues. Let me take you to India and teach you to introduce you to a Hindu spiritualist who heals people and speaks in tongues, but he's not following Jesus. You know, people speak in tongues in religions all around the world. Speaking in tongues is not the evidence that you're filled with the Holy Spirit.
Love and power is. Yeah. That's a good word. That's a word that a lot of people would want to argue with me about. But here's the problem: if you're listening to this, you heard that.
Go prove me wrong. You can't find a scripture that supports that theory that they propagate. You can't. Not unless you twist the scripture. And that's not the way it works.
Some tongues has become slightly performative. You know, I mean, slightly? A lot performative. When I had a guy come up to me and goes, I was like, I want to get baptized with the Holy Spirit. He goes, just babble, just copy what I do.
Start babbling. I was a drill instructor at the time. I wanted to punch the guy. I've heard that. I was in Bible school in California, and this person wanted to.
Start speaking, be filled with the Holy Spirit and start speaking in tongues. And the person praying for them said, Okay, here's what we're going to do: I'm going to pray, and then I'm just going to start speaking in tongues. And you start doing it whenever you feel it. Just start, just start the babble, and the Holy Spirit will take over. And.
I walked away. I was like, I'm out. This isn't me. Because if you have to create it, It's not from God. That's right.
It's not from God. Most of the times when I pray in the Holy Spirit, it's when I'm by myself. Yeah. I don't praying in tongues is not for I'm at a party and there's 30 people around. Let me start praying and screaming in tongues.
Oh, yeah. That's not it. That bothers me.
Well, you might remember this incident. We had somebody come to our house. And at the time. My birth mom was living in the house. She was not a believer at all.
As a matter of fact, up until the time I got saved, she used to go to seances to. find out what was going on with me every year on my birthday and in the year i turned 18 The next year, when I turned 19, I got saved when I was 18. The next year, when I was 19, She went to the salance and they said, you got to leave. And they start screaming and yelling at her. She goes, what's wrong?
And they said, he's under the blood. We can't tell you anymore. Because I was under the blood. And she was living with us, and these folks came. and stay visit one night and they said, let's pray.
Is it okay? and start screaming in tongues.
Okay. About her and speaking about her and screaming in tongues. And I'm like, going, I'm about to kick you out of my house. Yeah. You might have just kicked, you might have just, we might have just kissed goodbye any chance at my mom meeting Jesus.
That's right. Because you're so. whatever that is. What is that that your prayer Can override somebody else's will? No, the only thing that's going to bring that woman to salvation is the love of God.
Because one of your uncles even said to her, What about all the videos of miracles, signs, and wonders? And she goes, Videos can be fake. You know, so she was staunch. She was staunch. But.
You know, and I'd laid the rule down: don't anybody talk to her about Jesus. She's gonna see it. I said, We're going to demonstrate it for her. And then here comes that couple. And that couple, they ended up proving to be flakes anyway later on.
But they did the damage they were sent there to do. Yeah. Thinking they did it all. We talked about this last night at dinner. We got to stop soon.
Yeah. Last night at dinner, we were talking about evangelism. Yeah. And I could sit here and quote you, Romans Road. I could sit here and teach you on evangelism.
Yeah. I quit doing it. I'm done with all the systematic evangelism. Because as soon as somebody comes out with a great system of evangelism, the devil. Comes along.
I'm like, you know what the best type of evangelism is? Hey, what's your name? Yes, and a smile. And then let God speak to you through to them through you. That's the best evangelism, right?
Just like when Jesus was at the well and he spoke to the Samaritan woman, what did she do? She ran into town and said, Hey, everybody, come see this man who told me everything I ever did.
Well, first off, that's not what Jesus did, but she's running through town going. And so then he told her one thing about her husband's, right? Yeah. Read her mail. She runs into town and becomes the best advertisement Jesus had at that time.
And then Jesus taught his disciples come back. Right, she's in town screaming, yeah. And he his disciples come back and go, and he says to them, listen. The harvest plentiful. But the laborers are few.
And you have to imagine: if I'm looking at you and you're Jesus saying that to me, and I'm looking over your shoulder, what do I see? I see people streaming out of town towards Jesus. And he's saying, the harvest is plentiful. And here it comes. Because of one word.
One word. We were, Jaime shared this at our conference when we were, I think it was Bolivia, where one miracle caused all these people to come down out of the, we were in a ravine in a ridge, and it was surrounded by a U-shaped hill, and we were at the water fountain. One miracle up in the market on the left side happened. Word spread. We're down there drinking, resting, catching up.
People start streaming down towards us, and Jaime goes, Brother John, what do we do? And I looked up and went, Eat your orange, drink some water, and when they get here, just start praying. And the first guy that got to us, I turned around, I reached down. I couldn't even touch him, he hit the ground. He gets up twenty minutes later saying I came here for prayer and God tells me my mom's healed.
He brings her to the crusade that night. She had been washing dishes at the same time. Washing dishes in her house. She said something like the finger of God came through the roof, touched me on the forehead. I fell down, hit the ground for 20 minutes.
And I'm healed. Wow. Blew the crusade up, right? And you go, wow. So the best form of evangelism is not.
The Romans Road or Or, what happened in this instance, and I've seen this happen a couple times. I was at an airport, I'd missed my flight to leave the country. And all of a sudden, I'm talking to the, not all of a sudden, but I'm talking to the. The lady behind the counter. Oh, yes, I can help you.
I can help you. You know, another couple comes up, running up, interrupts, rude, crude, whatever. She's like, I can't help you. Y'all need them. You know, and she sent them away, and they were trying to argue and everything.
Five-minute argument. She just kept saying, I can't help you, and sent them away. They were mean. Yeah. Then she looks at me after they leave.
She goes, Now let's take care of you. I had the exact same problem. I had the exact same issue that they had, but they were rude and crude. And she sent them on her way.
So we're talking Jesus. And then here comes a co-worker. And he's like. And he does one of these things.
So, are you baptized? Yeah. Well, did you do it in the name of Jesus or in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
Now, do you use a King James or do you use an EIB? Do you go to church on Saturday or do you go to church on Sunday? Do you go to Wednesday night church?
Now, how do you dress at your church? Are you guys allowed to do this and that? Do you drink? Do you, and all these things? And then the guy's like, Yeah, you're not a Christian.
And the whole time, the lady, you can see her scooping mortar, putting a brick, scooping mortar. Spiritually, she's building a wall. Yeah. Finally that guy gets called away. And I'm like, I was so mad.
I wanted to You know, again the Soldier side of me wanted to jump across that counter and beat the snot out of that dude. Right? Because the lady I was talking to needed help. Mm-hmm. And he built the wall, he destroyed it.
But that guy will get up, and I've seen people do this. He'll get up the next night. Hey, I did some evangelism yesterday. Put a notch in his belt. And he feels good.
And what he doesn't realize he did is he turned somebody off. And if I hadn't been there to redeem it. Who knows what could have happened? But I felt for her. I told her, I said, I'm so sorry.
You got to work with that. You know, but I've seen that happen so many times, and it turns people off. Yeah. You know, because they don't care. There's no love there.
There's no spirit there. It's just a notch in the belt. You know, because that's what they're taught to do in their church, you know, which is like when we did evangelism in the streets on Fridays, we had somebody whose name we won't mention come with us. What are you?
Now, are you doing Romans Road? Are you doing this method? You doing the, who's the guy that was family ties or whatever? He runs around with another guy. I don't have a problem with either of these guys, but they're.
Kind of famous, and I don't follow anyone, so I don't really know, but I know this guy, curly-headed guy, was on a TV show growing up. Yeah. And he went full fridge. Christian and got kicked out of Hollywood, basically. He's done some Christian movies and whatever.
People out there may know who he is. And he ministers with this other guy. And they're always evangelizing. And they're really using apologetics to reach people. I don't have a problem with that.
But they also go do this, do that, do this, you know, and they have a system. I don't like systems because. The systems, the rules, and the regulations. Are there to show us why we need Jesus and all those systems, rules, and regulations get in the way of the Spirit. The law.
killeth but the spirit gives life you know and so i i just I'm not a fan of the system. Religion. of evangelism anymore. I just don't. I mean, we even have changed our crusades and even the way we do church service.
Why were we doing this in crusades? Why are we doing that in crusades? Let's get rid of that. Why do we even have to do that? You know, and and I mean, you were with me in India.
Well, we may have to delete that. You were with me at a crusade where Jesus showed up, and we put the microphones down and walked off the stage. And there are most people, many people go, where are they going? Because the boss is here. Why do you need to hear from me?
The big man's here. And many people over there were getting saved and healed. And we weren't even there. We didn't even know. 45 feet away.
Yeah, 45 feet away. And Jesus is doing what he wants to do on that corner of the field. We just go to the opposite corner, kneel down and pray because we don't see anything. But the crowd sees Jesus and we don't see nothing. But we knew by the Spirit that he was there.
And that's why we put the microphones down. You know, Pastor Lulu and I. And so, anyway, listen, we've been at this for an hour and 17 minutes just talking God. And we hope that it's encouraging because let me tell you something. There's nothing special about Joel and I.
We are just like you. I mean, right now, we need a shower, we need haircuts, we need a shave. We've been living in our RV out here on the job site. It's raining, we're covered in mud. And we walked into we went to a game the other night after working all day, and a baseball game, Durham Bulls game covered in dirt and mud.
And nobody knew you know, people just look at us and go, oh, whatever. We're regular people. We're regular people, is what I'm trying to get across to you. And yet, God chooses to work with us. Not through us or even Us for him, but he says with you.
And so, I want to encourage you: if you're listening to this, he wants to work with you. He wants to work in you. Yes, he wants to help transform you that you can become all that you were created to be. And we hope that this conversation gives you a spurning and gives you a wow. I mean If you met me, you would not be impressed.
So, you know, if I'm in a, if you walk into a room and there's a hundred other preachers, you would not, I would not stick out. You know, I'm probably in the back corner being a nobody.
So. I say that to you is because we do want to tell you the truth. We want to tell you what's right, and we want you to grow. We want you to become all that God created you to be in this earth. And we want you to be free.
We pray that the eyes of your understanding would be enlightened, that you may know the hope to which He has called you, so you would no longer be swayed back and forth by the cunning teachings of men, but rather attaining to maturity and the fullness of Christ, because that's what He has for you.
So, we love you. We appreciate you for listening. Remember, Jesus loves people. And love never fails. God bless.
God bless you.
