Frank Turek Fills in for Dr. Brown

Welcome to a lot of fire likes my guest host Dr. Frank Jurek stage for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire. Now, like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH your again is Dr. Michael Brown, it's Dr. Frank to work with you again ladies and gentlemen.

Dr. Brown is on assignment in Australia but he still putting out there's got to be more than one Michael Brown because the amount of information that Dr. Michael Brown puts out really good information is Legion anyways. He's got a couple of videos out today and a letter to a gay Christian today that you can all see it, ask Dr. Brown.org so check all those things out today. I was with you yesterday.

My name is Frank Turco, author of I don't have enough faith to be an atheist in a new book called stealing from God why atheists need God to make their case, and by the way, stealing from God's not about typing about the fact whatever atheist to try to argue that there is no God or actually stealing realities that would only exist if God existed. That's what the book stealing from God is about, but today I want to talk about the most important thinking skill that you need to learn and I need to learn in order to be not just an effective Christian ambassador and apologist, but somebody who can navigate life, and avoid error because the most important thing in life is truth if you don't have truth you're going to get into trouble. Jesus said the truth will set you free of the truth will set you free.

The implication is that if you don't have truth you're in bondage and there's a lot of falsehoods out there that can be.

I identified as falsehoods exposed as falsehoods by simply understanding this one important thinking skillet is the most important thinking skill I've ever learned and I think after you recognize it you go yes this is very important. Why, because you hear things in our culture that are anti-Christian things like there is no truth or no one has the truth or you can't know truth or all truth is relative. There are no absolutes. You think you have the truth, you're arrogant. It's true for you but not for me.

All truth depends on your perspective, they'll say, or all truths are subjective or that's just your opinion. They may say you ought not judge, or you should try and convert people or don't impose your morals on me horny. They have those that you should tolerate everything or they may say all of our truth comes from science to muscle through the Bible out.

That's not scientific or they'll say you can't know the real world or you shouldn't doubt everything that's the skeptical claim or they might say there is no supernatural realm because all causality is physical or they'll say only material things exist. So this supernatural or the material realm doesn't exist or they might say you you shouldn't believe anything you can't see here, touch, taste or smell or they might say the world is random or evil disproves God or look.

You can't go from the simple to the complex are saying God is simple, yet we have this complex universe, how can you go from the simple to the God complex or some of the new atheist now or even saying consciousness is an illusion or neuroscience experiments show that the mind is the brain and atheist materialism is true so we don't have any free will.

While there's a lot of objections there Frank in the first a couple minutes of the show every one of the objections I just brought up at least most of them can be refuted by this one simple thinking skill. What is the one thinking skill you need to master to be an effective apologist and effective case maker, a truth seeker. That is what were going to talk about today were to go through the statements I just mentioned and point out that they can't be true and if you apply this one thinking skill you will see why they can't be true.

So you not want to miss today's broadcast and in the second hour of those you do do get the both hours of the Dr. Michael Brown show you the line of fire were to have J Warner Wallace the cold case homicide detective on along with Rice Brooks.

The man behind the movies, God's not dead.

God's not dead to so you want to miss down Frank start filling in for Dr. Michael Brown were back in just two minutes with the most important thinking skill you need to know don't go away join Dr. Michael Brown, along with messianic Jewish pastor Scott Moulton for unique, behind the scenes tour of Israel. February 25 through March 6, 2017. Space is limited so accepting applications on a first-come first-served basis. For more information on the chip and to secure your spot, please visit our website@dr.brown.org and click on the Israel tour banner for color office at 704782370 line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution of your again is Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. Frank turned filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown is on assignment in Australia. Ministry down there. Hey, I just heard that spot for Dr. Brown's Israel trip. I just got back from Israel three days ago. Sorry my third time to Israel, and it is a life-changing experience especially with respect to how you view the Bible because you can first will see a lot of evidence for the Bible log while you're there and also see how geographically things things are, which is so critical to understanding some of the stories in the Bible so it's a life-changing experience or not want to miss that trip with Dr. Brown. I highly suggest that you look into going on that if you've never been to Israel before track on my radio broadcast later this week, talk about some of the archaeological discoveries we we saw for ourselves. We were in Israel just of this past couple weeks. You can listen to that program this weekend. Just get our app we have a cross exam adapt to words in the app store cross-examined two words and you can listen to all are we just a one hour radio a week. Dr. brass doing two hours a day.

We just one hour week so check that out off our cross-examined app.

It's going to be the Israeli archaeological discoveries. Our archaeological discoveries in Israel, and it should be loaded up this Saturday or certainly by Monday this coming Monday. It airs on Saturday and Sunday but anyway check it out. It's good to be an amazing trip with Dr. Brown so you not want to miss that Dr. Brown and Scott Volk. So check that out I were talking about the most important thinking skill today. Ladies and gentlemen, the most important thinking skill. What is the most important thinking skill that is being able to identify and refute self-defeating statements. A self-defeating statement violates the self-evident law of logic known as the law of non-contradiction. The law of non-contradiction says opposite ideas cannot be both true at the same time and in the same sense. For example, the earth can't be both round and not round at the same time and in the same sense it's either around or it's not Brown but it's not both right.

God can't exist and not exist at the same time and in the same sense. If he exists and what he says he doesn't exist is wrong if he doesn't exist.

Everyone says he does exist is wrong so the law of non-contradiction is essential if you can get good at identifying self-defeating statements. You're gonna be a fearless apologist and it will save you a lot of time going down the intellectual cul-de-sacs that our culture wants to take you down so what is a self-defeating statement a self-defeating statement doesn't meet its own standard. For example, if I were to say to you, I can't speak a word in English what would you say it's a hey Frank, you just said that in English, if I were to say you, my parents had no kids that lived you go away here here really mean that the self-defeating statement or hears from his account of a fun one. Only stupid people use insults.

I just called myself stupid did not write. So any bet that self-defeating statement doesn't meet its own standard.

I can't overstate how important it is to learn and apply this law of non-contradiction in your quest for truth. It will help you quickly detect error and we going to detail in this in our book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. In fact, in our book. I do not benefit communities.

We call this the roadrunner tactic. It just reminds us of Wiley Cody and roadrunner. You can get the book to figure out why, but the but the deal here is is that if you can identify a self-defeating statement then you can refute it and then move on to really searching for truth, and many of the statements that I mentioned at the top of the program, if not all of them are all logically self-defeating. They can't be true because they violate the law of non-contradiction. It's like saying I can't speak a word in English.

Let's go through some of these and then later in the broadcast.

If you want to throw some of them up on the air, but you can call Lynn at 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH 7884 866-34-TRUTH 7884 if you want me on the program on the line of fire today on Frank Turk filling in the great Dr. Michael Brown.

Our website cross-examined.org and Dr. Brown. As you know, asked Dr. Brown.org asked Dr. Brown.org if you like a listen to the previous programs. Good asked Dr. Brown.org direct the first statement I mentioned at the top of the program was the statement. There is no truth now. I hope you can see there's a problem with that statement because what you need to do to refute that statement.

If someone ever says you there is no truth you need to apply the claim to itself and other what you need to ask that person to question if somebody says there is no truth say hey. Is that true is it true that there is no truth because of it's true that there is no truth.

The claim there is no truth can't be true, but claims to be true.

Can you see this is a self-defeating statement. Of course, how about no one has the truth, what question would you asked somebody who says that again apply the claim to itself.

If somebody says no one has the truth you're asked them then how do you have the truth that no one has the truth you just said no one has the truth, but you apparently think you have the truth. The truth that no one has the truth. But if no one can have the truth. How can you have the truth that no one can have the truth. I know that give you intellectual constipation. If you think about it long enough. But that's because it self-defeating, it violates the law of non-contradiction. Don't buy into such nonsense that you might hear that on a college campus sometimes will no one has the truth if a professor ever says that you you're a Ranger handed Satan why am I here I want my money back.

Why my paying your tuition. I'm here to learn the truth in your say no one can know it. What you doing up here telling people they can't know the truth. You obviously have the truth you can't know the truth will that can't be true about all truth is relative. You've heard this, you might ask that person to question apply the claim to itself.

Is that a relative truth. Now he claims to be absolute. It defeats itself. It's like Santa can't speak a word in English about. There are no absolutes, you probably heard that there are no absolutes what you ask somebody who says that.

Are you absolutely sure there are no absolutes because that's an absolute truth claim itself.

Now I need to caveat this. It's not self-defeating to say there are no moral absolutes because the claim there are no moral absolutes is an immoral absolute itself, but it's practically self-defeating life because her somebody says there are no moral absolutes, just kick him in the shins and take their iPod and see if they think that that's not really wrong right don't really do that to me that's just you get the idea here is, if you do something wrong to them there immediately. Gonna believe in moral absolutes. That's the point. In other words, people don't always believe in right and wrong based upon what they do, but based upon their reactions to when somebody wrongs them coming out. I think stealing is wrong.

If I steal from you, but what why say the second you steal from me. Wait a minute that's wrong I mean is torturing babies for fun, really wrong or is that just a matter of opinion know everybody knows the torturing babies for fun is really wrong and they know it because there's a standard of rightness out there and that rightness is God's nature.

So God is the ultimate standard of rightness and any deviation from him is what's wrong this is why atheist have a big problem with the whole concept of morality. They talk of in moral terms, all the time, but if there is no God. Nothing is ultimately right or wrong.

It's just a matter of opinion. It's just your opinion against another person's opinion because of there is no standard beyond humanity, everything is just a matter of opinion. We all understand there are certain things that are really right, and other things are really wrong. If that's the case, God exists. How about a people who say if you think you have the truth you're arrogant what you say to that well are you arrogant because you think you have the truth that if you have the truth, you're arrogant. As I mentioned last letter yesterday on the program. Truth doesn't have attitude arrogance is an attitude. It doesn't determine truth or falsehood. You can be arrogant, but right about something, just like you can be humble and wrong about something so you obviously don't want to be arrogant, but you might be arrogant right just like somebody may be arrogant and and wrong for somebody might be humble and wrong. In other words, the attitude of the person doesn't necessarily affect the truth claim, so you need to keep that in mind, truth doesn't have attitude people might, but not truth about its true for you but not for me. You hear that a lot. What you say to somebody who says that apply the claim to itself. If somebody says it's true for you but not for me.

Say is that true for everybody is true for you but not for me. True for everybody because of true for you but not for me is true for everybody that true for you enough me can't be true because it's true for everybody that I say that right again that can give you intellectual constipation.

If you think about long enough, but that's because it self-defeating.

Actually, there's more fun way to deal with this. If somebody says it's true for you but not for me safe. Sure, go try that with your bank teller you go to your bank teller one day and say look a like $100,000 out of my account. The bank teller look your count system certainly have five $47.06 in your account. It's easy to get the money decently say that's true for you but not for me, give me the hundred grand to get the money now course not. But if it's true there's only 46,006 cents in your account. That's true for all people at all times and all places were referring your account at that time.

It's just true toilet so you're driving on the highway, which many are doing right now you're going 90 in a 55 don't do that cop sees you pulls you over walks up to the car knocked on the glass says you put the window down you're going 90 in a 55 it's easy to get out of a ticket. You simply say that's true for you but not for me and you speed away not to work, friends, if it's true you're going 90 that's true for all people at all times and all places. So don't try it now. There's many more.

These were to talk about here in a minute, Frank Jericho cross-examined.org cross-examined with the on the end of it.org voting for the great Dr. Michael Brown avast Dr. Brown.org on the line of fire radio were back in just two minutes with more self-defeating statements. Don't miss it seeking to the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Dr. Frank Jericho later for the great Dr. Michael Brown on assignment in Australia but will do in ministry.

As you know we do ministry down there is get some articles and videos new ones up but asked Dr. Brown.org so check him out there.

Our website cross-examined.org and were talking about self-defeating statements today were talking about were talking about the most important thinking skill you can have and that is to apply the claim to itself to identify self-defeating statements. As we mentioned at the top of the program that can really help you and prevent you from going down intellectual cul-de-sacs that the culture wants to take you down. You really want us concentrate on knowing the truth and living the truth rather than being diverted by the self-defeating statements that the culture tries to put in your way. And if you can identify the self-defeating statements can save you a lot of time and heartache because most important thing in the world is truth you don't have truth you're to be in bondage as Jesus said the truth will set you free. Which means if you don't have the truth you're in bondage so apply the claim to itself. Somebody says I can't speak a word in English or go to say you just said that in English. If somebody says there is no truth, you're gonna say is that true. Okay, let's go through some more. These all truth depends on your perspective of someone ever says that you just apply the claim to itself does that truth depend on your perspective.

Now you're claiming that that's perspective free, there are no objective truths would question should yes them then is that an objective truth that there are no objective truths.

If it is an objective truth. You just defeated yourself. If no, it's just in you the subject. In other words, it's just your subjective opinion.

It has no external reference and why should I believe it so you can't get away from objective truth like you can temporarily you can suppress them.

That's what people do. Paul talks about this in Romans chapter 1, we suppress the truth in unrighteousness to go our own way. We don't want there to be God. We can do our own moral things.

That's why ask people frequently, particularly on college campuses where I present I don't have enough faith to be an atheist question is if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian and on several occasions I've had atheist yell back at me know why because it's not a matter of the mind with them. It's a matter of the will. They don't want Christianity to be true, then I want there to be a God because they want to be God they're not on a true quest or unhappiness question. There gonna believe whatever they think to make them happy. Here's the problem. You can make yourself happy over the short term doing a lot of stupid sinful things, but over the long term. It is a disaster. Ask anybody over the age of 40 and they will tell you so.

By the way, the self-defeating statements and talk about most of them are in our app if you can't keep up with it. Get the cross-examined afterwards in the app store and click on quick answers is a quick answer section there and many of these are right there in the how about that's just your opinion.

You could say is that just your opinion that that's just your opinion, you're not judge here that quite a bit particular if you're Christian. Jesus said don't judge while you judging most forget what Jesus said for just a minute. Let's just talk about the claim you ought not judge. What's the problem with the claim apply the claim to itself. It's a judgment. If somebody says you're not judge rose, then why you judging me for judging say and by the way, Jesus did say don't judge Jesus said judge not lest you be judged by the same standard you judge others to be judge that by that standard. So before you try take this back at your brothers. I take the log of your own eye first and you be better able to help your brother, Jesus isn't telling us not to judge Jerry's telling us to take the speck out of our brother's eye that involves making a judgment. He simply saying get that problem out your life so you can better help your brother in other words, don't judge hypocritically. This is not a command not to judge its command on how to judge that Jesus was very firm with people who were judgmental and who were due the judgment. The ones in his day, while the Pharisees were the religious and political leaders of Israel, and Jesus went after them. Yet he did. In fact, if you think Jesus was a sweet guy who never said a bad word about anyone you've never read Matthew chapter 23 what is Jesus say in Matthew chapter 23 to the scribes and Pharisees the way for the religious and political leaders of Israel, Jesus got involved in politics. He went after the what he say what you scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites, you straight out a gnat and swallow a camel. You look great on the outside your whitewashed tombs, but on the inside you're full of dead men's bones you go a mile to make a convert that what you make him a convert, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are, how you will avoid being condemned to hell.

What sweet and gentle. Jesus said this. Yes, Jesus was not Garney okay dear will just get along, boys and girls no he was not Mr. Rogers.

Can you say kindness boys and got what I was kind most of the time, but he certainly didn't go around say in this sermon brought to you by the letter E note. Jesus was tough sometimes you need to be tough until people directly.

The problem you're beating around the bush too much, which means your enabling people by the way it is one of the thing about Jean you notice when you complement somebody is a judgment. Nobody gets upset like about is it Dr. Brown Dr. Brundage doing a great job.

This radio program and online manager put out so much great information you think is that you are judge and make no case to say that you see I noticed that people really don't have a problem with judging they just have a problem with judgments they don't like and if you tell something so are you tell someone something that's true, and they get annoyed with you.

You've just help convict them. As Augustine said, we love the truth when it enlightens us. We hate the truth when it convicts us or for you military guys out there.

You always get more flak when you're over the target. If you say something that's true, and people are upset your over the target.

They don't like it, but you're telling the truth. Don't buy into this idea you can't judge her to judge without being judgmental.

Someone said evangelism is just one beggar showing another beggar where the food is don't get judgmental, but you have to make judgments, you should try convert people what that person try to do the youth or try to convert you to the fact that you want not try to convert people there doing the same thing or claiming you ought not be doing or how about don't impose your morals on me.

You probably heard that my question is why not with Appia moral and why you imposing your morals on me because that's what you're doing your say in your moral as I ought not impose my morals on you, but you apparently compose your morals on me. I would say this, by the way, these are my morals. I didn't make this stuff up. I did make up the fact that murders wrong, that rape is wrong. The theft is wrong that abortion is wrong that made men were made for women and women were made for men, and the only way to perpetuate stabilize society is to recognize and promote one sexual relationship that between a man and a woman. If you're to stabilize society.

I didn't make any of this stuff up. This is my morality not impose my morality will not oppose your erotic order impose the morality, the one Thomas Jefferson said was self-evident. The one the apostle Paul says even the Gentiles know this is written on their hearts.

The natural law of morality on which our country was founded.

Of course I worked. We should impose that it's impossible not to oppose morality all laws legislate morality. The only question is who's morality that was the subject of her first book. Legislating morality try to oppose morality only question is who's morality will be imposed, you have but you should tolerate everything you probably heard that motion. I tolerate that, by the way, Christians are not commanded to be tolerant were commanded to be loving and if you tolerate things that are harmful your unloving every parent knows this kid knows this. If your parent tolerates everything you want to do or they loving no there unloving and the many people in our society wants to tolerate everything, yet you can't tolerate evil if you tolerate evil your unloving and they don't tolerate everything by way of notice. A lot of the people who say their fight for tolerance of the most intolerant people out there anyway.

Frank Turek cross-examined.org cross-examined with a D on Emmett.org for the great Dr. Michael Brown is back next Tuesday.

He dry yet but were back in just a couple minutes and don't go away if you're listening it's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker, Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. The line of fire now by calling 664 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown Dr. Frank Churchill and the great Dr. Michael Brown, who just been in.

We already had 1/2 hour on the air and what I try to say at the end is your locality doesn't broadcast all two hours of Dr. Michael Brown.

You can listen live it that asked Dr. Brown.org asked Dr. Brown.org so if it didn't catch the first half hour the program and one of want to catch it. You can just go to asked Dr. Brown.org and the listen to the podcast once it's up there today were talking about the most important people are the most important thinking skill that you need to have. And as I said earlier at the top of the program that this particular thinking skill is the most important skill I've ever learned and it will help you avoid going down, down the intellectual cul-de-sacs that our culture wants to take us down.

In other words, there are a lot of self-defeating statements out there.

We been through many of them in the first half hour. The program there is no truth what yes somebody says that is that true summary says there are no absolutes ONLY.

Sure, you want not judge, then why you judging me for judging okay these are self-defeating statements. What's to a few more. These and then maybe later get your phone calls at 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH if you've heard a self-defeating statement or want to bring one or just want to ask a question related to theology, ethics, that kind of thing you can calls it 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884, you hear this or would you go to college are probably going here this at some point all truth comes from science sounds real good, doesn't it.

The problem is its faults and it it self-defeating as well. Why because the very statement all truth comes from science doesn't come from science can't prove that in a laboratory. That's a philosophical claim, and what so often misunderstood, you can't do science without philosophy, science is built on philosophy.

What's philosophy. Well, it's the love of wisdom but in my in the sense I'm using it right thinking about reality and in order to think you've got to use these laws of logic. These laws of reason and when you think about the statement, all truth comes from science to realize itself, that statement itself doesn't come from science or can't be true. And science is built on philosophy, science is built on the law of causality.

Science is built on the laws of logic, science is built on the idea that our senses can ascertain truth about the real world and then we can draw rational conclusions from those senses. You can't prove that by science you have to assume that in order to do science. Science is also built on the orderly laws of nature of the laws of nature changed every 10 minutes. You couldn't do science. Science is built on cause-and-effect science is built on the principle of uniformity that causes in the pastor, like those in the present. If the laws of nature work differently 10,000 years ago than they do now. There's no way to know what happened 10,000 years ago you have to assume a uniform nature in order to get at the past. These are all assumptions of science and by the way science doesn't say a thing. Scientists do I unpack this in the book stealing from God.

If you want to go deeper on that whatever you hear someone say science says this or science is that you're to stop them. No, size doesn't say a word. There would be no science if it wasn't for people scientists say things and quite frequently, scientists interpret data based on their philosophical worldview based on what they've already decided is true about God they've already decided. There is no God, so it doesn't matter how much evidence points to an intelligent being there always going to interpret the data in a naturalistic atheistic way that that's one of the problems in modern science today people are imposing their atheistic worldview on the data. See data doesn't interpret itself. Data must be interpreted and theistic scientists are open to the two types of causes. One of the two types of causes a natural cause or an intelligent cause, whereas atheistic scientists are not open to an intelligent cause they rule out intelligent causes before they look at the evidence, so it doesn't matter how much the evidence points toward some site, some kind of intelligence. They always assume it has to be a natural cause for my assessment as well.

That philosophy is causing you to come to wrong conclusions. In some cases about the scientific evidence you have to have a more open mind to be open to both types of causes will talk more about the self-defeating statements right after the break, Frank Turek, filling in for Dr. Michael Brown. Our website cross-examined.org cross-examined with the on the end of it.org and Dr. Brown's website asked Dr. Brown.org back in two minutes is that the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear again is Dr. Michael Brown Dr. Frank Turek. Dr. Brown is on his back on Tuesday. Today were talking about the most important thinking skill that you need to have in order to be not just an effective Christian thinker apologist, but just an American or a human being because there's so much for so many self-defeating statements out there that if you can identify them by simply applying the claim to itself.

It's good to save you a lot of time. Particular college students, high school students listen up if you learn how to identify self-defeating statements. It's going to save you a lot of heartache we been talking about self-defeating statements like people say there is no truth, you asked them is that true, you apply the claim to itself, you can't know the real world effect. Immanuel Kant put it manual, that was cut his theory, a philosopher from the 1800s. So we put it this way, Kant said you can't know the real world outside you that's I remember what con said, what would you say to Kant who says you can't know the real world will how can you know that about the real world, then, why can can't know about the real world, but we can't mean it's a self-defeating statement he is exempting himself from his own theory.

He says nobody else can know the real world, but I can wait a minute that self-defeating. If nobody can know the real world. How can you know how, but you should doubt everything that's the skeptical claim you should doubt everything. What's the problem with it well should I doubt that I wire skeptics skeptical of everything but skepticism. Notice that by the way is still Johnson famously put it, he said he is he who is a skeptic, and one set of beliefs is a true believer and another set of beliefs you hear atheist talking about. Well III just lack of belief in God know you don't you you have positive beliefs about about the real world you're trying to explain the real world by evolution and you're trying to explain the real world about five multiple universes are called the quantum vacuum brought the universe into existence atheist have positive beliefs about the real world effect atheists, many of them today are materialist that all that exists, or materials, that's a positive belief about the way the world really is.

So you just lack of belief in God you have positive beliefs. If you're an atheist about about the way the world really is and so when Philip Johnson says he who doubts one set of beliefs is a true believer and another set of beliefs.

Atheists are true believers in the doctrine of materialism. The problem is materialism is self-defeating. Why because it were just molecules and motion for just molecular machines that were nothing but moist robots that were not really reasoning were just reacting.

Therefore, not really reasoning, then why should we believe anything we think, including the idea that materialism stroke, including the idea that atheism is true or evolution is true or quantum vacuums are real or the multi versus real, why should you believe anything different just molecular machines are for just moist robots.

You shouldn't that's the point.

It's a self-defeating proposition to say only material things exist because of only material things exist in the very thought that only material things exist is just materially derogative adjust materially derived if it's just a result of the laws of physics, then why should we believe it's true. Now if you want to go further in that I know we covered a lot there that's rude. Get the book stealing from God why atheist meet God to make their case because I go into much detail as to why that's a self-defeating proposition and what what are atheist stealing from godmother claiming that there are reasonable, but there is no reason unless there's an immaterial realm, a source of reason, but they've denied the immaterial source of reason by claiming everything's material. So in order to use reason they have to steal it from God to argue against them.

So atheists are literally stealing from God while claiming he doesn't exist.

They have to sit in God's lap to slap his face so every time they open their mouths there really showing that God does exist, not doesn't mean the God of the Bible.

It turns out to be the God of the Bible, but you need more evidence to see if the God of the Bible is the true God. The grounds of all of their material reality and that's what we do in the book stealing from God. I'm simply saying that sickly saying that the very existence of an immaterial realm.

Those with no known as the laws of logic and the existence of minds, not just brains shows that materialist faults and theism better explains the immaterial realm and by the way, if you're Christian, I'm sure you have doubts. I doubts effect atheists of doubts everyone has doubts you know what what I have doubts I start analyzing these doubts and I realize that most of my doubts are emotional. They're not intellectual. In other words, the evidence for Christianity is very good and when I doubt it's because I'm having some sort of emotional reaction to something not because I think the evidence is bad for my friend Greg Coco who wrote a fabulous book called tactics says before I have my 1st cup of coffee in the morning, and atheist after my 1st cup about Jehovah's Witness and after my 2nd cup back to being a Christian right. What's changed is the evidence changed, though the evidence hasn't changed at all. He's changed emotionally he's changed these down before he has his 1st cup of coffee after as his 1st cup of coffee then suddenly he's feeling a little bit better after 2nd cup. He's a Christian you, I mean that just points out that the emotions change, but the evidence doesn't change so if you start doubting your doubts then you're back to knowing something for sure. So realize that when you're having doubts most of the time they're not intellectual their volitional or emotional about how about you, you shouldn't believe anything you can't see here, taste, touch or smell right, this is what the atheist will sometimes say that very statement you can't see here, taste, touch or smell.

So why should you believe that you never seen your mind, you can never touched your mind you've never heard your mind or smelled your mind or tasted your mind yet you believe you have a mind that a lot of things you can't see here, taste, touch or smell. You believe in you believe in gravity what you can feel the effect of gravity which can't feel gravity directly. Why because you're feeling the effect of gravity when it's pulling you to the ground, never seen gravity evilly seen what it does give never seen George Washington using paintings of George Washington never seen them you can't see here, taste, touch or smell, but you can get. There is evidence for as many things that you can't ascertain with your senses affect the very laws of logic were using here to point out self-defeating statement you can't see here, taste, touch or smell them either. There immaterial their self-evident there just grounded in the furniture of the universe. You believe them. But you've never seen them because you don't you don't learn everything by your senses.

Some things are just self-evident. Like the very laws of logic were using right now effect. Atheists believe a lot of things they've never seen. They believe that life came from nonlife without intelligence they've never seen that but they believe it happened. They believe in macro evolutionary transitions they've never seen many of them believe in a multi-verse and others.

Other universes out there.

They've never seen them but they believe them.

All of history you've never seen, but you believe it provide to this idea. He could only believe things you can see here, taste, touch or smell snotty suck.

True, the world is random atheist will sometimes say that you know the only way you can know random is if there was order and the only way you could know order if there's an order, were so when atheists are claiming the world is random there actually assuming there's order, but that would only be order. If there was an order or how about evil disproves God, you may hear that. Turns out that's faults as well.

Why, because it would be no such thing as evil and Lester was good and there be no such thing as good unless God existed because God is the very standard of good, by definition, his nature is the standard of good evil doesn't disprove God. Evil may prove there is a devil out there. But evil can't disprove God because there would be no such thing as evil and Lester was good and there be no such thing as good unless God existed sexy as Lewis famously said as an atheist. My argument was that the world seemed to unjust. He said but how I got this idea of just and unjust. That man is not call line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line.

What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust. You see something can't be unjust unless something is just something can't be not right.

Unless something is right.

Something can't be it moral unless something is moral so evil doesn't disprove God.

Evil may prove there is a devil out there, but it doesn't disprove God.

In fact, Lewis. I think in another context. Put it this way, the shadows prove the sunshine in order to have shadows you have to have sunshine.

In other words, in order to have evil you have to have good you can have sunshine without shadows you can have good without evil, but you can have evil without good can of shadows without sunshine.

So if evil exists.

I know this sounds counterintuitive, but if evil exists then God exists, not because God is doing evil, but because God is a very standard of good by which evil can even be known.

Evil is a private nation or a lack in good so there's a lot of self-defeating statements out there that can be refuted by simply applying the claims to itself and if you get good at applying the claim to itself, you're going to be effective. Apologists want to join the program 866-34-TRUTH on fracturing of cross examine the data were cross-examined.org cross-examine with the DNA of her daughter working on filling in for Dr. Michael Brown asked Dr. Brown.and were back in just a couple of minutes. I don't go the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Dr. Frank Church filling in for the great Dr. Michael diamond in Australia but he still writing articles, putting out videos you can see them@askeddr.brown.org that's asked Dr. Brown.org.

Our website cross-examined.org and today were talking about self-defeating statements in your most important thinking skill as a Christian and I think it's a human being as well as to be able to identify self-defeating statements have a can't be true.

We talked about many of these on this program here today limit Lumia give another one and I will get your phone calls and in the phone numbers 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH, Daniel Dennett, the new atheist says consciousness is an illusion. One wonders if he was conscious when he wrote that, I mean come on, Koch is a solution in order to know your consciousness is an illusion. You would have to have some sort of super consciousness in order to determine that the consciousness you have is really not true consciousness. In other words, it's a self-defeating statement to say that. In other words, let's put it this way. The only way to know you're having a dream is to get the more than knowledge of waking up yet to wake up to go. That was just a dream, right well in order to know your consciousness is just kind of a dream. It's just an illusion. You have to wake up and so Dennett, who is supposed to be a philosopher can't seem to recognize that his own position is self-defeating and there are so many other self-defeating statements. Atheists put out and up many them.

I go through the book stealing from God why atheist knee God to make their case. But let's go to the phone lines if you want to join the conversation. You can 866-34-TRUTH will run at a time here this hour in the next hour, Guy J. Warner Wallace, the cold case homicide detective who wrote the book old case, Christianity and God's crime scene and then also in the second half of that hour to have Rice Brooks the real author behind the gods, not dead movies. So let's go to the phones and will start with John in Tampa Florida. John euro with Frank Turk filling in for Michael Brown. The redheads are not one to make use God uses different people ways that she used Saul and you know there's a possibility that God is using trunk, but because we know that the direction of the other will take a student is not direction your that we should go in and there's a possibility that God is using trunk and is changing from start as he changed all his heart to try to really help you out.

You know we've all been thinking about the art aren't good and were not proud of, and we all change our minds from day-to-day. So you know yeah you might be right about that John and I personally think that an election is always the choice between the lesser of two evils. Even if Billy Graham, a red run against Hitler, Billy Graham is still evil as MIS. We all are. He's just a lot less evil than Hitler.

So I'm going with Billy Graham and the same to the same thing is true here.

You got trump against Clinton and I think if you take an honest look at both of their platforms both what do you know what they stand for. I think of Donald.

Donald Trump is the least worst choice. You will have to hold my nose devote form yeah but everybody in politics is flawed onslaught. Everyone else is flawed. Donald Trump is flawed. Here we Clinton certain literal flaw. The question is who's going to do the least amount of damage right and as you know, the Supreme Court is hanging in the balance right now and according to what I've read. Donald Trump has a good list of some very good Supreme Court of possibilities that I know you won't get with Hillary Clinton and while the Supreme Court shouldn't have the power it does for some reason in our society. We've acquiesced to the Supreme Court when in fact the most powerful of the branches is supposed to be the legislative branch.

You say how so because the legislative branch. The latest legislative branch can remove members of the executive and judicial branches. They can impeach them and so there's poet supposed to be the more powerful branch because it's most responsive to the people. But of course we kinda lost that in our culture today were allowed to dictate the law, yet were were were were allowing judges to be legislators is that's that's that's what were doing and then we should do that that that the judges should apply the law as written, otherwise the people no longer are governing ourselves. When I govern ourselves. Look look of a judge can make up law than what what what what what we vote about how what are we here for. What's the legislature here for an unfortunately when you put judges on the court that are liberal in their orientation they decide they're going to make laws rather than apply the law as written, and that's a big big problem because then we no longer govern ourselves now exactly in the because the church is not been involved enough John, that's exactly right. When you're in Florida you're a swing states you have to convince many other Christians to get involved and not just at the presidential level, but at every level prayer and prayer, and a lot of hard work. So you gotta do both thought I thanks hope thanks much the call John yeah I mean politics. You know it's it's such a difficult venue and people are really up in arms about it. They're not quite sure what to do. But, again, for me it's always the least worst choice anyway. Somebody put it this way. Friend, my mentor, Dr. Geiser said looking election is always a choice between a known witch and a suspected devil so you never gonna find a perfect candidate and was Jesus comes back so you might as well just pick the least worst choice and go with that fact. My friend Richard Landers. The presidents of evangelical seminary, said out of the 17 people run on the Republican side. Trump was number 17 in his view, but he still got a vote for him because he is the least worst choice and some good things about trump in my view is certainly the idea that he is against political correctness. It seems that it seems like you will just say what he thinks is true even if he's off-base he's knocking to be silenced by political correctness so and and he realizes we have a national security issue that needs to be dealt with. Whereas our current president seems to think that we don't have a national security issue and he can't even call Islamic terrorism what it is. I mean it's it's it's ridiculous people out there running around yelling our walk bar and he's trying to say it's workplace violence on the income and this is by the way, this is not new.

This is been going on for 1400 years, these loans been around since about 632 A.D. and if you look at its history.

It's experienced or it's it's committed G hod against unbelievers for 1400 years.

It's not a new thing.

It's not caused by US policy, it's been going on a very very long time. The question is how do you deal with it and that's a difficult question.

But to ignore the problem is not to deal with it anyway week I got off topic there little bit but were talking today about self-defeating statements and the fact that that's the most important thinking skill you can have to identify self-defeating statements and refute them. So when people say things that are self-defeating or they say anything see if the claim meets its own standard. If they say there's no truth say is that true somebody says there are no absolute say absolutely sure of some. He says you're not judge said that while you judging me for judging someone he says you can't know truth. You say that how can you know that's true. So he says all truth depends on your perspective, you should say does that truth depend on your perspective, somebody says you should tolerate everything. Should I tolerate that I tolerate now. You can't tolerate everything into evil. You can't tolerate evil and I were back with another hour don't go away on Frank Turk filling in for cross-examined or compelling for Dr. Michael Brown, cross-examined.org and check out@dr.brown.org welcome to the line of fire likes my guest host Dr. Frank Zürich stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown knowledge… Dr. Michael Brown's Dr. Frank Turk but I'm filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown is on assignment in Australia. He'll be back next Tuesday and I just did an hour with you if you're just tuning and you can listen to that hour that you missed that aspect. Brown.org and then yesterday did a couple hours as well. It's a privilege to be on the line of fire filling in our websites, cross-examined.org that's cross-examined with a D on the end of it.org to question have you ever spoken to a nonbeliever and maybe maybe you're doing it right now. Or maybe you spoke to somebody this morning was a nonbeliever and it seems like they are just so resistant to everything you say every argument you bring up her every fact you try and you try and show them. It doesn't matter what you do. They are resistant to what's going on. They don't want to acquiesce to anything you say about Christianity. In fact, you probably had conversations with people and you bring up an objection and or they bring up objection, you begin to answer the objection and before you're done answering the objection thereon to another objection then it's like then you try to answer that one another onto another objection answer that Iran would not go well. It doesn't even appear like you are interested in what's going on and by whim took my producer right now that that were not important.

When I have Alex Davis on the program were having. J.

Warner Wallace I sent you guys the phone number so check out your email for that Jim Wallace Delaware can talk to my producers over the air sorry sorry about that folks anyway have Jim Wallace on here just a second. He's the guy that wrote cold case, Christianity and he also wrote God's crime scene is got a new book coming out and he said to give us some insights and easily give some insights into how to how to interact with people and how to identify the people you ought to be interacting with about Jesus and if you figure out who you're dealing with. You won't waste a lot of time with people who are never going to accept what you say, no matter how much evidence you have and so this is to be a very insightful conversation we can have in the next half hour with the with the Jim Wallace, by the way, he is a cold case homicide detective who has solved cold case homicides in the state of California for the past several years, you probably seen a month datelined fact, he was just on dateline the other night in front of my just I just saw Jim the other night on dateline and and it was that it was a case that was just solved about a year and 1/2 ago two years ago and so they're rebroadcasting some of these cases are 30-year-old murders that Jim gets involved with, and he he solves them somehow and so much of getting a proper conviction is getting a jury that's open to the evidence and the same is true when you talk to somebody who is a non-Christian of a really open to the evidence or they adamant against you.

No matter what you say that's what were going to investigate in this half hour on the line of fire and you can check out Jim a cold case, Christianity.com check out his website there and I will get them on the line right after the break and check out our website@cross-examined.org that's cross-examined with a D on the end of it.org and you can now see some of the evidence that were putting up on our website will be very helpful to you and also on her Facebook page and I'll give you the best question you should ask somebody who's not a Christian right if the brakes don't go away on Frank Turk filling for Dr. Michael Brownback with Jay Warner Wallace the cold case homicide detective don't go away your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown, it's Dr. Frank Turk filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown is on assignment in Australia but he'll be back next to stay. I am from cross-examined.org cross-examined with a D on the end of it.

My guest today in this half hour is the great Dr. now he's not a doctor but he should be. Jim Wallace Jay Warner Wallace you know him because he's written the book cold case Christianity a fabulous book is also written God's crime scene another another Jim and cold case. Christianity is a book that really looks at the evidence from a forensic perspective for Jesus's resurrection in the Gospels and in God's crime scene does the same thing for God. God's fingerprints here in the universe and Jim will explain that a little bit as we go and you can check out again. His website at cold case, Christianity.com, Jim. It's great having you on the program my form. I am glad to be here for Dr. yeah tell me Jim you I just was talking to Buddy my the other day because I just saw Jim again on dateline. I think they played the wire episode again let you know I think you're on dateline you might be on for years because there on dateline repeatedly and then there on ID channel and in their on Oprah Winfrey Network, you name it. They're all over the place, what they like it quite a lot. So we've got four episodes out there that right now I think they're still in rotations. We'll see those occasionally you now just to give our audience a little bit of perspective. Just tell us a little bit about that case that was on dateline four times that the case that was on dateline.

Just the other night a wire incident. Just give us a two minute overview of that case so people will know your qualifications and what you been doing in your vocation.

Prior to getting involved in in Christian apologetics. Well I for me a lot of my own.

Coming out of yard with no apparent or not Christians not knowing when my family was a Christian and a model pointed to me and and I ended up using my skill set that I had a detective to look at the gospel for the first time at the age of 35 that's that's when I became a Christian was using those same skills is that we see on those shows, you know, this idea that you got an event in the pasture, trying to figure out what what the eyewitnesses really saw when you have no access to those eyewitnesses sometimes because there dad and you have access to the authors of the subliminal reports because sometimes the detectives also passed away so you you really are doing a skill set in examining these documents very similar to examining the gospel and that's just how wide I did that that case with the liar was another one of these typical you know. 19 1979 case reports were really no call to work with but not a lot of loving forensic evidence. Very similar skill set. You might want going realize that we nationally most cases we make with this circumstance, circumstantial evidence, don't you have witnesses who can say they saw what happened.

That's very rare in don't have direct evidence cases. So if you learn how to together a cumulative circumstantial case that the skills that you can use a lot of different places we've used it with the Gospels as well. Was this girl that was murdered in Torrance, California 1979 and you just you just latched onto some picture wire that was found at the scene and you traced this wire back to one man, Doug Bradford, New Mexico conviction over this how he could do that one is not unusual. Writing and drawing. I mean, it is not not impossible for us to do to together. What actually happened a long time ago. Even when you have not great evidence that this is a case where he was using a garage you know it's one of those is this regulation of eyes made wooden handles and water between the two handles and in the kind of wire used was unusual not very common at the time not common today, but he and his mom happened have access to it because she was a painter and was using this wire to hang her paintings and he was still living at home so you know that's that's really what were the whole thing began with trying to figure out how rare is this wider end and how reasonable would it be that somebody else would have all the elements necessary to build this garage at his disposal. We set up if you and I were asked to go around the garage and build a garrotte so we could do some harm to somebody all grew up look a lot different than the kind of grout that was used in my case, because the kind brought you to my case had unusual materials that just happen to be available to my killer you were able to get a conviction was on dateline.

There were three other episode you're on dateline for that you taken these these skills that you've learned through the police department and applied them to Christianity and one of the skills that you've spoken to me about. I want to tell her audience about is the skill of selecting a jewelry that's at least open to your position and yet you you categorize people in for possible quadrants. Can you explain that because this is application to evangelism, you have to meet again tomorrow to make the kind of case to the jury that can come to you Nazarene Church of Visalia California for real estate conference right we do these four, five, six times a year and that audience were all in one of these categories to jurors.

The entire pool of yours are typically people who were either inclined toward the prosecution or inclined toward the defense doesn't mean there necessarily in the interview in the bag for one of those two sides but the people just are inclined toward the like the police to like the prosecution that had a good experience in law enforcement.

Their people had a bad experience in law enforcement are inclined against them inclined against the prosecutor. Those two groups can be divided again into you know to others smaller groups total of four and you have people who are so inclined toward the prosecution don't care what defense is there going to vote for the prosecution there on the edge of group one group to go. People who are inclined for the prosecution, but their fair don't vote based on the evidence in group. You have people going client for the defense. But there also fair. Don't vote based on what the evidence suggests and people who are so inclined toward the defense that he'll never ever vote with the prosecution attorneys both defense attorneys and prosecutors are trying to remove the edges when they select a jury to link the choices we have a certain number of of exemptions we can use we can exclude certain potential jurors and keep the ones that we like and both sides get to do this so we tried to exclude on the prosecution side all those jurors will never vote with us in the defense does the same thing in resource from their sight words were trying to get one for the people were so entrenched and committed to their positions they will never move.

We want people in the middle. People might be inclined one where the other but their fair what turns out that's very similar to looking at people we truly gospel, how would you categorize people you're sharing the gospel with one of those four categories. I would you categorize large groups or people who are either Christians or non-Christians right and break into two smaller groups one would be those were so committed to their Christian believes that no matter what you would what would happen. You get the body of Jesus he could find the bones of Jesus because about this and it wouldn't matter that they are committed to their worldview, regardless of the evidence that you got Christians who are starting a questions that you group to group 3, you got atheists that are starting to have questions in a group you have atheist or so committed to the atheist view that they are inflexibly unmoved.

They will never ever ever bend the knee in this direction. So were doing it again you have the edges.

One in four people who are entrenched into three or people who work you have questions.

Anyone know what the answers will turns out that when we speak about the gospel to the world around us. Only the people in groups 1 to 3 are going to be paying attention to group forms are entrenched in the atheist position against us are not hearing what we have to say. And now I always ask the question how I treat these four groups differently will group one, you might wonder why you make a case to group one they don't care about your case, there is a need in the evidence.

I just believe this lie we tell that group that you need to learn the case for Christianity because you got kids probably who are in group to Christians who are starting to have questions and they don't need answers by our books. Frank me. I wish they would. But the most part if they do, that's rare, but their parents who are believers could master the material in our books and materials out there all over the Internet in support of the Christian worldview so they could share with them their own kids were in group to group through your course are the atheist return to question one reach them for what you do with the group for I can to members of my own family who are entrenched in group. For we do with that group.

As we pray for that group. We pray like crazy and we model Christ for that group because until God moves people from group 4 into group 3 were knocking to be able to penetrate that the once God does move them from group 400 group 3, I think we've got a great opportunity to share the case for Christ Jesus had a pretty colorful way of explaining probably the people in group, for that would be. Don't cast your pearls before swine. The question is how do you know their swine run right me I level my own father's in group 4, you know this because you had conversations you you probably if you had to make a list of everyone you know in your life, you had these four categories in which to place them you right now can make a list of whether there are one, two, three or four.

And so we can only know just based on you got Facebook and your posting you posted something about Christianity on Facebook and you might've gotten positive response from her family members or silence or negative response.

You already know, kind of.

When that range where people fall, let's let's talk about some strategies right after the break Jim on how we can break through these groups identify these groups I give you question you can ask friends of people who you think may be in group for a fracture. Excellent for the great Dr. Michael Brown, my guest is Jay Warner Wallace of cold case, Christianity.com line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown Dr. Frank to cross examine.org with my guess Jay Warner Wallace the cold case homicide active who is been on dateline for time solving 2030-year-old murders and is written to fabulous books, cold case, Christianity and God's crime scene in today for this half-hour were talking about people who seem very resistant to Christianity doesn't matter what what you say to them, they are objecting and the questions I like to ask people and and Jim Jim's can give us some of his insights to the couple questions I asked people who are I think I might be in this category. First question is if I ask you a serious question. Will you give me a brutally honest answer was people say yes then I asked them if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian. Now if the person hesitates or says no you know they're in group for and as Jim said the idea there. That is just pray for them and love them and maybe God will move in their hearts. At some point and they can at least move into group 3 or hopefully two or one after that, Jim.

What are some other ways offer so how did you do this in in in the courtroom with juries help help you to identify the people in the extremes. Would you ask them how we got a great question we can ask yours and the board are processed and I hope never impaneled a jury for a Coke's homicide trial which we didn't use a survey we actually have surveys that we give the jurors are usually pretty lengthy and they fill them out and we got a short period of time to redo all the surveys to see where people fall in certain categories of service are quite simple.

They'll talk about their prior experience with law enforcement. They'd had a good or a bad experience with law enforcement will also talk and spend time and questioning each juror as they come up for consideration and talk about. You asked them the questions about you know what they believe about certain things and sometimes were doing is really helping them to understand the nature of evidence before we begin and we talk about what people think about circumstantial evidence, where they know about him, to hear that name.

It sounds bad, something pejorative like you could be a very good case if it's just a circumstantial case and as we discussed this and other jurors are in the room listening to what were saying to each juror the time we get done we got a set of juries and jurors in place that not only are the requirements and bodily both sides do this. The defense is trying to eliminate anybody that might get a favorable jury to if you watched God's not dead to the movies. There's a section in there which both attorneys are trying to get the right jurors is very common and and we don't do. Sometimes though, as Christians don't spend a lot of time in a more dire process right over talking and listening and kind of being intuitive about an ending careful about what we are hearing from our friends and family members so we can figure out where they fall in the spectrum right before we even begin. We just almost have a template that we use in the most the time is based on our own personal testimony that we just want John Pete without even knowing where they fall on the spectrum and we wonder why sometimes it doesn't mean over doesn't have much impact as part of the problem and slept.

That's what we want to do it. You asked me where do you have success in jury trials where you have success in making the case. Is it in the opening statement. Is it in the jury presentation is it in the closing argument acknowledged in jury selection, you win cases in jury selection.

You have to take the right jury. Remember you saying this to your you're pretty good at picking up on verbal clues that can indicate whether somebody is lying you did that in the case of the wire.

Doug Bradford was lying because he would qualify things he said and I remember the deflate gate thing with the New England Patriots and Tom Brady and I remember you saying when Tom Brady was asked the question, are you a cheater.

He said I don't think I'm a cheater say I'm not a cheater. He said I don't think I'm at year end and you said that's an indication of what Ron is a response to the one art and a science can have a number of reasons why my qualified statement. So what I have to do is look at large a large body of work right. I usually hard to make it a judgment based on, you know, the 32nd statement, but I had a three hour interview.

Now I've got the ability to see is he always doing this. Is there some patterns of this. That's we want to do.

We want to know are other things or people are qualified because he just can't say yes or no.

No. Why would I do that this kind of response I get a lot from people were guilty of something.

Can't say no I didn't do it. They want a single one of you just say no and if the answer I'm looking for is yes or no, people don't give me a yes or no, but I think it's fair for me not to ask the question another way, and after about three hour interview. I can look at the 20 ways. I asked the question and see if every time I asked it from different angles in a different manner than the always qualify will that's usually a good indication there's something there.

They don't want me to know how can you apply that to conversation you're having with friends. You think a resistant to Christianity.

I mean, again, I without asking them directly which is what I tried to say look, if it were true. Did you become a Christian and I see how they react to that question yet you are there other ways of getting them just it just by picking up certain cues to see how open they are.

Yeah, I think what I think you would, no doubt, you have to ask questions and listen carefully for the answer and you sometimes it's a matter of real reason why someone would ever deny a treatment right rational resistance, emotional resistance or volitional resistance sees the ways that people push back and try to deny a truth claim and sometimes people tell you how to get enough evidence that you asked the question, you can find out if it really is that the category is just a minute that the category I can help you with that.

But I'm talking and they're saying things like what you know my dad was a Christian. He was a jerk and whatnot since this is not about reasons and about evidence. This is about results, this will response emotional response to your dad left a very different category.

I can't approach that category by lobbing more evidence that you will find find out that you know you been in you got some sin in your life that you you you live with your girlfriend got you like that you're doing that you just don't want to give up when I know I can make a case for this, but the reality for this person is that they like the simple life they're living I don't want to hear about my worldview that is going to confine their behavior very different approach toward people like that. Now my wife is better at picking up on the subtleties sometimes than I am right because she's a hearing and she's listening to standing on the sideline sometimes and I'm taking the approach that this is all about other nonsense all about rationality and afterward shall say to me you didn't hear a thing.

He said legally listed evidence for the sky. It was about this and I realize okay I'm not even this amount they might revise Ravi Zacharias famously said when you're answering the question you not just answer the question.

Your answer in a person's somebody gets up to the microphone. It says if there's a good God, why is there evil in the world that may be an academic question. But if the person gets up there and asked the same question because they just lost their baby two weeks ago. There's a different answer resolutely apologist and we learned we write books about doing is really giving you the one thing Frank knows is true.

I have the academic answer in my head prior to suffering the loss of priority.

Like the pain that gives me the foundation that helps me through. If I don't have the academic answer in my head and then I go to that loss of that experience. It's much harder to reach me now with the academics.

It's much harder to reach me now with the evidential basis, but that's why it's so important for all of us as Christians to work through the issues rationally before we encounter, do that will be a better place. Jim and I am I guess Jim Wallace and Mike Adams Rogan at the Inn near the Fresno area this weekend at Visalia California doing our fearless faith conference, so if you're anywhere near central California and you want to hear about more about this. Come to that conference. Jim, thanks for being on the show so appreciative yet.

That's Jim Wallace, cold case, Christianity.com price drops is up next easy author of God's not dead back in just a couple minutes on Frank Turk don't go away. Hey this is Michael Brown. I want to invite you to join me for our second ever trip to Israel. February 25 through March 6, 2017 this is a great opportunity. I get to interact with you are radio listening audience. Our ministry partners as we experience the land of Israel together and it will be a life-changing.

We've got great price on the trip. And if you're one of our monthly supporters or torchbearers are eligible to receive a special discount for this once-in-a-lifetime experience.

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Accepting applications on first-come first-served basis. For more information on the trip to secure your spot, go to asked Dr. Brown.org. Click on the Israel manner or call our office at seven 047-8237 it's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker, Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution.

The line of fire now by calling 664 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. Frank Turek filling in for the great Dr. Michael Brown of cross examined.org, co-author of. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist and stealing from God why atheist need God to make their case, but were talking about even a bigger book that you've heard of today. In this segment.

In this half hour written by my friend Rice Brooks you probably heard the book, God's not dead yet was turned into a movie and Rice is the man behind the movie so I thought I'd have him on to talk about that because were trying to go ladies and gentlemen from a movie to ferment. So Rice is very accomplished.

In fact, he's written another book that's in God's not dead due to called man myth Messiah will maybe get into that a little bit. Risa started thousands of church churches around the world and it's a great privilege to call my friend Rice thanks for being on the show right how you doing brother where you back home yet. Are you still and in I'm in the great looking out over over a over a rancher so it could be the most most quickly essential that a mere five barbecue meal and now now our audience wants to know. Dr. Brown's audience wants to know about this, God's not dead phenomenon which is in its second movie already and I know there are more coming. How did this whole thing begin. You wrote a book called God's not dead and then before you know it was a movie how this happened. Well, good question. Of course, right. Like you I work on campus and so we we have campus ministries and churches it's called every nation is the name of our organization. After three decades of campus ministry in dealing with skepticism on a day in day out basis. Actually, the newsboys had a song called God not dead, and so we began to talking. I wrote some things for them to, transitioning from a song to where people would know more evidence of why… So locked out of fuel perimeter look like it's singing this, but we also want them to know how to defend that God is indeed alive because as you know, studies are showing that there's a majority view this on unthinkable majority good, getting college after high school and they get there and they lose their faith.

So I began to write some things for them to use in her concerts and I began to write this book to lay out you know what what is it mean when you say God not dead.

What is the evidence for God so just from the beginning of the universe look at life's origins and how the origin of life point the God morale at the resurrection. All the things that you've done for many years and what your I don't have the faith to be an atheist but feels with itself as well so I was actually in a car telling a friend at a couple of interactions with the businessman and he said that needs to be a movie we call the movie company and they came to Nashville and sat with us all in.

I just described to them.

This is what goes on on the campus all the time and this is what you do to defend the faith. They ended up introduced me to some screenwriters and so I spent some time with them. Just explaining the stories and anyway so they came back with the script and so I was privileged to be there in the beginning of the idea and watch this drama of a young man having to say there is pricing on when I come back and talk about that were talking to the author, God's not dead. The man behind the movie and more movies are coming. Rice Brooks don't go away on fracture packages to the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. Frank great Dr. Michael Brown assignment in Australia. He back Tuesday on the co-author about having the faith to be an atheist and stealing from God why atheist need God to make their case. Our websites cross examined.org but my guest today is rice Brooks who is the man behind the God's not dead movies and of course the book called God's not dead and were trying to go from a movie to a movement. Our culture is is eroding away in the church is eroding away in this country anyway because we are given up on the mind and were all about emotion and we can't really find our moorings. We can't throw down an anchor anymore and really figure out if what we believe is true because were not interested in evidence and were trying to move people took to really trust what the Scriptures say about always ready to give an answer and love the Lord your God with all your heart, so strengthen mind and demolish arguments that are contrary to the Christian worldview were supposed to do this and Rice is trying to do it at the entertainment level, which is so critical because many people are are are swayed by what they see in the movies. And so this is a fabulous way of doing it in God's not dead. Want to now God's not dead to rights you were saying before the break that you are. You were sitting in Nashville with some movie producer. Some screenwriters pick the story up right there. Go ahead. After explaining to my friend businessman about the need of young people leaving high school to college no evidence or put their faith give a reason for the hope is referred to you the one you moving so they came to town talk to me and I just I explained that there were professors like Bart Ehrman of North Carolina that both of us know about it. Bart known first day of class sitting there in Hamilton 100 that room where I've been before. Basically challenges people from the beginning that you know are you sure the Bible is true in the and then maybe the parents get that fateful call that you reference when they call up and think that I don't believe in God anymore because somebody talked about her faith. Anyway I my role in the whole thing was just telling a friend that I was writing a book about that was my total focus was to write the book, my friend, have the idea that that needed to be a movie and brought everyone to talk to Billy, and I could see the influence of stories and then really need to present evidence and I think that's why around the world. God's not dead.

Whether you like them or not. One thing that was undeniable was it was a drama that showcased young man a young freshman giving evidence for his faith, and I think that's what resonated so no matter where I'm here or any other country that had the privilege of going to the kind of talk about this message. I think that is the common denominators no matter where you are or what age group is to the country. Whatever people are searching to be able to get those reasons to believe that as you said that faith that God is not only real, but that he is communicated through Christ is the greatest question in history because when Jesus said who do you say that I am you answer that the son of God, and that means his authority. His words are given preeminent, and it gives us that rhetoric gives us that compass. It gives the foundation that we need to without that foundation, it's just, you know whoever speaks allow the store know you. Note that the mob rule, so to speak, but God is the one that has the right that has given us his word and and so it's everything about what were facing of the culture comes back to you who are you going to trust that we make the case that because of the resurrection trusting the yes we are. And in fact your book goes into that.

The book is called God's not dead. Evidence for God in an age of uncertainty. And then there's a follow-on book called man myth, Messiah, and for those you that if seen the movies God's not dead one God selected to in the second movie you'll see this book man Miss Messiah and Mabel get that here in a minute but rice in the first book, God's not dead yet of a chapter called real faith isn't aligned. A lot of people have the misunderstanding that faith is is just trusting in something without any evidence and you say that's not the case. Explained that we will give you a little bit of a motivational story behind that.

I went down 2012 global eight convention. It was a was billed as the largest indoor gathering of a history in Melbourne Australia and you had Richard Dawkins and had been dented and Lawrence Krauss. Krista Richards was scheduled to be there obviously get passed away so that it is a tribute to him, but the caricature of what state laws was that they did this thing is if they were cattle up equipment of faith is believing what you know is a true cut of the old Mark Twain little line there that somehow that what we as Christians are advocating it there in any other religion that abdicates faith, as it were just a kind of except to accept things without any evidence and so that's just the opposite of what difficult case on making the book under that chapter, you referenced real faith of the blind, but really it's the evidence is overwhelming. We don't come to God against reason become the God and it's not don't have enough evidence for God that we don't like what we see as Romans says we suppress it like it doesn't want the evidence that kind of jeopardizes this case that my note change the jury to try to get that evidence to be thrown out. And so that's what's happening with skepticism, is that the evidence is overwhelming. In fact, if you ask the average skeptic who loves that refrain will you have no evidence for God's will. What evidence would accept.

They will tell me okay let's talk about evidence. What would you accept them really thought about the Globe notes Michael Richard Dawkins is maybe I could see a 900 foot Jesus like wait a minute. If you're looking looking for Steve Jobs. You wouldn't of found about breaking down an iPhone doesn't live a note in an Apple product you know that when he was lodged with the found the beetle find Bill Gates in the software so you're looking for the intelligent mind behind the universe. So the question is, is there evidence of intelligence and what we can look at scientifically and that is where the rich life universe, and I think overwhelming resounding yes.

This does not look like from our DNA with complex information. 3 billion letters long for information in a fine-tuning of the universe. All the things that are good but probably better. The thing that litany of evidences but I think the average person needs to know that you can understand this may be a little over your head. It's not out of your reach.

You can grasp the basic concepts and hopefully we can have the average believer being able to take on any skeptic holder Ronan and not only keep their faith, but actually make it make a difference in the life of the skeptic, and I think this chapter in the book is very good. I got highlighted outside of the book is God's not dead. My guest here is rice Brooks is the author the book and the man behind the two movies. This a difference between belief that in belief in the lease that is evidence that God exists that Jesus rose from the dead, that the Bible is true and that's what the book like God's not dead gives you gives you that kind of evidence the police then is what you do with the belief that evidence belief in his trusting in Jesus after you know that he is the Savior and that's it.

That's a step of the heart, not just the mind where is that the the for the first belief that is intellectual belief.

It is not just intellectual, it's also volitional a lot of people, as you pointed out, rice don't want to do that. In fact, Jim Wallace and I were just talking about this in the last segment that there's a lot of people out there who are just so resistant because they don't want there to be a God. They want to be God they want to do their own thing. It doesn't matter how much evidence you give them they're never going to believe in because they want they don't want the moral restraints or the accountability that they think comes with Christianity and so they're going to resistant that's that's why again friends. The question asked people is this if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian and then just be quiet and see what they say.

Now rice the second movie God's not dead. Two deals with man Miss Messiah what what is that book about will write when you get beyond what God is establishing." Oh, what is God like and how do we know which religion is true and so you have a lot of misinformation out there that somehow Jesus was. Some people try to say that he never lived.

So if you Google something on the Internet skeptic saying Jesus really live in so history is replete full of evidence that Jesus not only live but that the other notion out there on the bed lives on the Internet is that somehow he was the story of Jesus was borrowed from ancient pagan captions with the Persians of the Greeks of the Roman enemy. That's kind of like the intellectual equivalent of going to the grocery store, you see that Maggie thing that the Bigfoot stole my baby on the sources you so there's not a lot of substance or should behind that claim. So so anyway you know it today. The end of the day parts of man, Jesus exists Smith you know what about the notion of being a myth. And so we deal with that of the book and in the final part of the trilemma I guess is Messiah and how did you know that Jesus is the Savior of the Christ that Christians and people referred to when they say Jesus Christ so the plot of that again… Through my influence was basically to say my influence was basically to say we need to deal with this in this movie so plot line of a court case where a high school teacher quotes Jesus in class and she suspended and then sued and then the question in the defense of the of this high school teacher there trying to deliver it. How do we live know how this authorizer can come back to right after the break and give you a couple of tools you can use to evangelize people from God's not dead so don't go away on Frank Turk with rice Brooks you got back in just two minutes. It's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael it's Dr. Frank's are exhilarating and inadequately I might Dr. Michael Brown but will be back on Tuesday were talking to my friend rice Brooks who is the author behind God's not dead, not only the book but the movies as well.

God's not dead one. God's not dead too and that Dr. Brooks is started. Many churches around the world not only the United States but in the Philippines and South Africa in Europe.

Every nation, churches, and that he actually pastored a church there, near Nashville.

No Nashville, Tennessee, and rice. You.

You also have something out there which is an app that can be downloaded in 155 countries. It is an evangelism app called but God tests tell us about the God test. What's that about really, really, what the original thing that I think I was more excited about even in the… Project but basically this is a started as a paper tool you note something you can hold in your hand in this office is apps become more more part of an outdoor mall that has been downloaded in 155 countries but if they track is basically a survey where you ask people to simple question.

You believe in God and if they say yes there are 10 questions and if they say no there's 10 different question.

And as you go through the question each time someone answers and they touch the screen for their they have multiple choice answers we actually record that data so we we got hundreds of thousands of responses and were able to understand. We know where they took the test within about 10 feet working another country. 10 m but it's been a phenomenal tool to just as we say is simply to start a conversation you asked questions, listen and then you tell the story so you can see that spell something that spells salt so God helps the average person start a conversation and then the questions are so important. So instead of evangelism being about just you know quoting scriptures and kind of taking notice of talking and giving all the answers first to ask questions and listen. And what's amazing is that as skeptic good thing is there, ask these questions and you really listen to them. They always give you a chance to respond.

In fact, on campuses. This is so popular that the AP is directly thanking us because number one it's a very simple thing when you have listen to them first. And you're not playing ping-pong. You're not saying that's not true that's not true that's not this is the spirit of this is the month of the month that it is that you ask these questions you listen and then as you listen to people. First of all, you will find that most people haven't really thought that deeply they have a few things that are there standard objections are made to their favorite skeptical insults that they've learned. When you begin to ask them a broad set of questions about everything from notes explain to me why you're an atheist. One of the main reasons how do you account for life were not what you think about evolution of the word of life come from believe you will exist as evil really real. If you're an atheist thing consistently. Can you say evil is real or are you not, as you say, borrowing or stealing from God. The very concepts of good and evil to make sense of the world. But as you listen first to the answers to these questions. The menu talk then you have the makings of a real dialogue, not just a shouting match and so that's why I think it's become so popular and it's a free download. Just go to the app store android or iPhone got to and you'll see it. It also has the training videos there. I was an adjunct professor of apologetics at Fuller seminary. I think back in the day probably tendered more people that I helped was to train people to be able to share their faith in under an hour. So instead of a 12 week three canal six month. If you go to download the you'll see the test part in the training part and all the five training videos. The total running time is under an hour. So again, you can be in a conversation with somebody by this evening and being comfortable having that dialogue about these questions of faith, skepticism, and the meaning of life. So this is very helpful to ladies and gentlemen, if you just try to figure out how you can use this thing.

You can have this on your iPhone thickly ghost college students, high school students. Everybody likes taking surveys you have taken a survey.

Can you take a survey on this call to God test here and they can fill this out right there on their iPhone. All that data goes to a central data point, but then you as a result of going through the God test on your iPhone or your droid. You can then have a conversation with somebody based on the answers that they've given and are people using this quite a bit on college campuses rice to do this kind of thing you know what was going on that day. It is a phenomenon right now because again I think what my research when I went back and did a doctoral degree. My focus was what is the condition of the North American church. I think the most evangelism evangelism is, in essence, missing only 3% of churches in America are actually growing through evangelism.

So think about 80% of churches are plateaued and declining in the 17% of churches that do grow, it's just through migration of believers. You know, looking for a better church experience only 3% of churches are growing through evangelism so you can wonder if you asked the question what's happening to our country will we get there was ever any whatever spiritual greatness we had it was because the gospel change the hearts of people in these great awakenings in history. So if we stop preaching the gospel and we just go into maintenance. Are we going to install. Imagine the basketball team never tried to score but just pass the ball around and that we have to have a plan.

We have to end in the gospel is meant to be shared and once the gospel is shared, it has the power to change hearts and I got started because maybe his brother in law school in his third year at SMU week and became on the talking out of the faith we baptized.

And so my brother went from this very skeptical opponent of the Christian faith to a person that's now the finger of the faith. Still, an attorney, so we we have the power to change hearts and minds because the gospel is true. So much rice sleep and then they therefore don't share it with confidence that it becomes a self fulfilling cycle of defeat would not only pull out of yet. Not only that rice. I think it's in our culture it socially awkward to share the gospel to talk about these things. But the God test makes it a lot easier. That's the beauty of it, because when you say look on taken a survey and I'd love to get your insights in on this and see what you think about this, then it's nonthreatening and you got it right there on your phone which always have with you because you're an American, right, you always have the phone with your friends. So download the God test and use this thing with your friends with your relatives with the people on campus or at your workplace. It's it's very easy to use the God test the rice run at a time as any website they are to go to or just go to the app store right rice Brooks.com and Bolingbrook BR 00 CKS rice Brooks.com you see the books you'll see all of that bear soaked a one-stop place rice Brooks.com and several other websites I say screen on the show and forget that just got asked Dr. Brown.org or Laura light a fire.com links will be there on Frank Turek great being with you cross-examined.org is our website. Check that out as well. Dr. Brown to be back next week unless