You Can Be Orthodox But Backslidden

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You know, you can be Orthodox in the faith, following the word, faithfully following God, and yet lose your first love. How's that happen? It's time for the line of fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the line of fire.

And now here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. My joy to be with you here today, the infusion with faith and truth and courage.

You can stand strong on the front lines where God has called you and your family in your home and your community, the place of business on your campus, in your church. As our light shines, the darkness will be dispelled. Here's the number to call 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. We'll open the phone lines to anything you want to talk to me about. If you want to pursue yesterday's topic about revival at Asbury, revival in general, criticism of revival or something else, you want to talk to me about 866-348-7884 is the number to call. A little later in the broadcast, I just want to bring a tribute to Dr. Michael Heiser, who went to be with the Lord this week. Sadly, tragically went to be with the Lord.

Want to do that briefly to honor him. Want to play a couple of video clips that will be really eye opening for you and just a whole lot more to share with you. But first, let's start here. Revelation, the second chapter. This is the first of seven messages that Jesus gives to different churches in Asia.

Mine is starting with Ephesus and ending with Laodicea. And each one is prefaced by the Lord's self description. Revelation two, verse one to the angel of the church in Ephesus. Right. These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands.

So the seven stars represent the church leaders or the angelic leaders over each city and region and the seven golden lampstands, the seven churches. I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles, but are not. And I found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name. And I've not grown weary.

Let's stop there. That's some kind of congregation. Those are the people of God.

That's the place I want to be. And if I'm one of the leaders there or the senior leader and I'm hearing that, I'm encouraged. Jesus, you know, you know that we've been faithful. You know that we've been loyal. You know that we haven't backed down. You know that we've been through tests and haven't denied your name. You know, we hold to true doctrine, Lord. And yeah, those people, they claim to be apostles. They weren't. We found them out. We found them out and exposed them.

And Lord, I'm so glad we are so glad that you know that we are orthodox, solid believers, working hard, not denying your name. That's I'd be feeling pretty encouraged at this point. And he says this, yet I hold this against you. You have forsaken the love you had at first. You have left your first love. Consider how far you have fallen. Repent and do the things you did at first.

If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. And then goes on with further words of encouragement and promise. So here's the big question. So we step back from the text. Here's the big question. How could they do all that, but have left their first love? How could they remain orthodox? How could they persevere under pressure? How could they not deny his name? How could they test and expose the false apostles?

How could they do all that? And yet they've left their first love. And it's so severe that Jesus says, you need to repent and go back to doing what you did before. And if you don't, I'll remove its lamp, your lampstand from its place. In other words, there won't even be a church.

There won't be a church of Ephesus anymore. That's how deep this is to God. Now, the fact that people leave their first love, we can understand how that can happen. You can get busy with life. You can fall into spiritual pride. You can compromise with the world. You can be seduced by sin. You can just get so busy with ministry.

It's easy to understand that I don't happen in my own life. Late 70s, early 80s, as I was pursuing my PhD and just getting more and more into intellectual studies in less and less time alone with God and quality prayer and fellowship and reading the word intellectually more than spiritually, as opposed to reading it both ways together. I left my first love. I became spiritually proud. We were working hard. I was active in church and ministry. Our family was taking in refugees to live in our home over a period of years.

Over a period of years, we did this in May. I was known, my testimony was known in university. I was a strong believer, and yet I had left my first love. But how is it that a congregation can do this?

This is the thing that has to sober us up. Yeah, you may be orthodox in doctrine. You may be right about the things you believe. You may be writing your criticism of false teachers and false leaders. And yet God's saying, but you have forsaken, you have left the intimacy we once had.

You have left the relationship we once had. Years ago, Nancy and I were in Israel, and Israelis can be really tough with each other. A native born Israeli is called a Sabra, which is a type of cactus.

It's prickly on the outside, but soft on the inside. And you'll have Israelis yelling at each other on the street over some dispute, but they'll also die for each other. I remember our very first trip there in 86, we're waiting to get luggage. And one guy tries to reach in to this lady to get his luggage.

She shoves him out of the way. I thought, yeah, I think we're in Israel. I think we're here. And you'll get a taxi driver. He realizes that you're new there and don't know what's going on.

He'll try to shaft you with the fare and so on. You got to fight, you got to fight. So we're with a friend of ours, godly woman we had known for years. She's been living in Israel for some years and and somebody cuts her off and she starts yelling. And that's what happened to you. And she just put her head in the air and started crying that she had become something other. She'd been in a certain environment and become something other than than who she was.

And in the same way, you can be around someone, you haven't seen them in years. Someone came up to me some years ago and they said, Mike, what happened? Your mustache went gray. I thought, what do you mean it went gray? You say you don't know that the mustache on on your face, under your big nose, you don't know that your own mustache went gray. What you see it every day, you get used to it and it gets gray little by little. And and my mustache used to be like a red, dark reddish brown. My hair was dark brown, so my mustache was lighter than my hair, the hair on my head. So I just thought, well, everything's getting lighter. I literally walked away after we were done talking, went to the bathroom in the building where we were and looked in the mirror. It's like, wow, I am gray. So this can happen and you don't know it. This can happen and you're not aware of it. And just the fact you're Orthodox, some of the nastiest people I know in the world are Orthodox in their faith and their church is right.

They're just this right, this this right, this this right. And yet there's no intimacy with God. There's no deep fellowship with God. There's no passion to reach a lost and dying world.

There are no prayers with tears. I was talking to someone once, a theologian, and he was emphasizing to me the importance, teaches at a seminary, emphasizing to me the importance of believing in eternal, conscious torment, that the lost will be eternally conscious and eternally tormented in the flames of hell. And it's so important that we hold to that doctrine and and not move from that at all, not not talk about annihilation or anything.

So we're just going back and forth having this conversation. And I said to him, you must have several prayer meetings a week at your seminary in tears, weeping, because if you're consciously carrying that, then you you can't just sit around with your family and have a nice, relaxed night because of that reality. You carry this unending pain, grief, burden in your heart for the lost.

Him was more of a doctrine. You know, I remember reading one guy's book and it was about eternal hell, and he said I was I was talking to this man with cancer and he was in terrible pain. And I thought to myself, this is something like the pain you're going to experience in hell.

And I thought, I hope you said that with brokenness. I hope you said that with tears of that matter, because we just hold it up or hold to the Orthodox doctrine of eternal punishment. Well, do you weep for the lost, do you agonize for the lost? Do you sacrifice for the lost? Do you risk your own life to reach the lost? Do you give sacrificially reach them?

Are you involved in missions around the world that consume you day and night? If not, it's head knowledge. It's not it's not heart reality. So just because we are Orthodox in our faith, just because we work hard, just because we don't deny God's name, just because we successfully test and expose false apostles and false prophets and false teachers doesn't mean that God is pleased with us, always pleased with that aspect. But if we've left our first love, the early intimacy that we had with him, the the love relationship that we had with him, the hours spent in his presence, just enjoying his goodness, the emotion we'd experience when when we sing hymns that glorify his name and hymns about the cross. And we just want to pour out our heart with love to God. If we've left that, we've left the most important thing.

You know what it's like? It's like a couple gets married. They have nothing. And the husband really wants to provide for the wife and really wants to do right and do right for the kids. He grew up with very little. He wants the kids to have a lot. He wants his wife not to have any stress. She wants to get a new car. She can get a new car. She wants to re-carpet the house. She can re-carpet the house. So he works 60 hour weeks to to make ends meet and then get extra money in and bring prosperity to the family. And now to really the doors open, he now goes to 70, 75 hours a week and and the family they're living now. And for them, it's a mansion.

It's gorgeous. It's an amazing place and they've got everything they need. There's nothing that they need that they don't have. There's nothing that they want that they don't have, except they don't have a husband and father anymore. Where's this the dad when we just would hang out?

We'd rather that we were playing and ball in the backyard or that you could go to my recital and we just have a nice dinner together. Then we have all these nice things. And the wife's like, I didn't marry you for riches. I didn't marry you for this. I married you for you. And where that's what I want. I miss you. I don't care about the other stuff.

I'd rather live in a shack and have you. That's God's heart. It can happen to any of us. That's why revival often comes to bring us back to our first love.

What's the solution? The solution is do what you did at first. Repent, recognize, wow, I have fallen from where I was in God. It's hard to swallow, especially pastor leader.

I have left my first love, but I'm going to go back to what I did at first. Go back to the simplicity. Go back to meeting with God. Go back to enjoying God.

Go back to spending hours in his presence. And before you know it, the first love is there burning even brighter. All right, friends, we'll be right back. But first, we've got an important word from our sponsor helping us spread the line of fire around the nation. So as you take advantage of these special offers, know also that you're helping us get this message out, our message together to speak to the nation. We'll be right back. For joining us, I'm going to go to the phones in a few minutes. Got some video clips I want to play for you and the tribute to Dr. Heiser as well.

So my friend Rui, a prayer warrior who gave that personal testimony, I checked with him a couple of days ago. He says, Dr. Brown, he's 50 years old. I said, Dr. Brown, he said, I'm doing dumbbell flies with 80 pounds.

I mean, he's amazed at what's happening with his weight. So these these are products that I use regularly myself every day and really thriving, doing great with it. So again, 100 percent of your first order goes to support the line of fire nationally as we expand on new stations. So you can call this number. Just gave me another one, but you can call 800-771-5584 800-771-5584. Say, hey, I want to find out about getting a free sample and 25 percent off the order. Go ahead. Call 800-771-5584 or Trivita.com.

Use the code Brown25. Again, with each order, you're helping more people hear the line of fire around America every single day. OK, Dr. Michael Heiser passed away this week, went to be with the Lord. So be praying for his wife and family.

That's a terrible blow. And I think he's some years younger than me. So, you know, in the prime of life and Michael, I have similar backgrounds in terms of academic training.

We both have Ph.D.s in Near Eastern language, literature, similar degrees, both studied in secular universities for Ph.D.s. And he suddenly became prominent with his book, The Unseen Realm, absolute to his shock, became a bestseller. And then the books he wrote after bestsellers. So we would have some differences on certain points. But so much of what he learned, it's like, yeah, we learned this in Near Eastern studies, the world we lived in and now applying it to biblical studies and so on. But just a great guy to be with and such a solid scholar and just honest, willing to honestly pursue things, pursue the text, see where things went and just be himself.

So I thought just as a way to honor him, we did something last year and actually a year and a half ago, I was down in Jacksonville, Florida, to record a series of shows. That's debatable. We did eight debates in two days with a wide range of people and to set it up and to publicize that Michael and I were given the topic of whether Frankfurter is a sandwich to have this debate. So as a tribute to my friend and to bring a smile to your face, let's watch this debate between Dr. Michael Heiser and I on the critically important subject is whether Frankfurter a sandwich or not.

Hey, friends, this is Michael Brown, Dr. Michael Brown. I am the host of a brand new show on The Awakening TV network called That's Debatable with Dr. Brown, where we take on all kinds of controversial subjects. And today we have a very hot subject. It's one that is super relevant, one we hear about all the people. This is like the topic people want to talk about. So we had to figure out who would be the guest, the perfect person.

So, Dr. Michael Heiser, if you don't know Dr. Heiser, the man is is brilliant. That's that's why we asked him to come on. The question I probably the question we're typically on board with each other, but not on this, not on this. The question that's dividing us right now, not our friendship, but is a hot dog a sandwich or not? Are you arguing? No, I yeah, I can't believe arguing. No, Dr. Michael Heiser, you've got 30 seconds to state your case.

Go ahead. Anything you can eat in a tube is not a sandwich. How can a hot dog be a sandwich? I mean, it violates the canonical shape of sandwiches.

OK, it's either square around, not a tube. There are other things wrong with it, but I can't believe that you actually think a hot dog is a sandwich. Have you ever have you ever seen Nathan's hot dog eating contest? Anything that you can take it apart and eat it? That's not a sandwich. That's not how we eat sandwiches. So I think it's just ridiculous. Anything you can take apart, eat is not a sandwich.

Are you kidding me? So you got a turkey sandwich. You can't take the turkey out. Oh, oh, wait, wait.

I didn't interrupt you, brother. So look, here's the deal. What's the sandwich? Could be a turkey sandwich. It could be a peanut butter sandwich.

What are the ingredients? You have two pieces of bread and you've got some food in the middle. What is a hot dog? You have two pieces of bread and you have the food in the middle. I don't care if it looks like a tube.

You can cut that thing up into quarters. Canonical shape. Where is the canonical shape of sandwich?

Show me, where's the text? OK, let's talk about how it's served. You order a sandwich, right? It comes to you. It's got two buns, whatever is in the middle.

They hand it to you. This is your sandwich, right? Do you add anything to it?

No, with a hot dog, they hand it to you. And now you've got to add all these things to the top of it. Again, it's not a sandwich. A sandwich is a self-contained entity. Since when can you not add anything? So the thing comes, you can't put salt on it, you can't put pepper on it. And where are we saying, can you add something to it? The issue is, what is a sandwich? Let me state it again.

Apparently, this is not getting across. A sandwich is two pieces of bread with some food in the middle. What is a hot dog? Two pieces of bread with some food in the middle. Oh, it's a two piece. Two pieces of bread with some food in the middle. So if I took two pieces of bread with some food in the middle, if I took two pieces of bread and put spaghetti in the middle, that's a sandwich. That is just not a coherent criterion for sandwich. A hot dog is not a sandwich.

Sorry. Obviously, didn't have enough to say to fill the seconds there because there's nothing behind the argument. Yeah, you can make a spaghetti sandwich if you want. The thing that would make it a sandwich is what? The two pieces of bread with the food in the middle, just like a hot dog, which is a sandwich.

You still haven't refuted the main argument here. How it served a canonical shape. Yes, there is a canonical shape. What other thing besides the hot dog do we want to call a sandwich? A hot dog is not a sandwich.

It doesn't conform to a sandwich. Okay, I didn't want to get dogmatic here, but I'm going to quote scripture. 2 Corinthians 13 says, you can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth. I have been speaking the truth. Therefore, the word of God backs me that the hot dog is a sandwich.

Case closed. No, I can't. Time is up.

I know you want more time on this, but listen, friends, maybe we'll develop this. Maybe we can put it into a book form because there's going to be a lot of controversy about the hot dog, but this is going to be on social media. We want you to vote. Who won the debate?

Is a hot dog a sandwich or not? Dr. Heiser or Dr. Brown? You decide. And be sure to join me on Instagram.

That's debatable. You'll find out about all the latest. So yeah, Dr. Heiser will be missed and was a unique man with a unique contribution to the body at this time, but may his legacy and work live on. May his family receive supernatural grace at a time like this. And hey, maybe in the world to come, Dr. Heiser and I can really finish that debate because it's probably going to be a big issue in the world to come as well, but just my way of honoring him and bring a smile to your face in the midst of the mourning and the loss.

So a grace to his family. By the way, the Awakening TV network was just on for a year, but we have all of those. That's debatable series, all the videos on our website. So they're all there at Ask Dr. Brown on YouTube, Ask Dear Brown on YouTube or on our website, askdr.brown.org. And their debates, I have with a professing gay Christian, with a professing transgender Christian, with a former evangelical turned atheist, former evangelical turned agnostic, with a Muslim, with another Christian leader about replacement theology, with another sister about the Charismatics emphasized healing too much, and with, how would you describe her?

Feminist who says she's pro-life but supports abortion. Anyway, they're all there for free. You can view them on our website. So we come back. I'm going to take some calls relative to revival as well.

And I want to play a couple of clips through. One is my friend, Pastor Shane Idleman in California speaking at the local city council, the school board, addressing stuff that's happening in the schools. He does it gently. He does it gracefully. He just emailed me and said that there are incredible responses and people are standing up together. You know, Billy Graham said, when a brave man takes a stand, the spines of others are stiffened. Sometimes it just takes one person. He's not the only one, but as a local pastor with five kids, he's addressing some issues of what's happening in the schools and calling things out plainly. Then I want to play a clip from a person everyone knows as Scott Nugent. The one I know as Kelly Nugent. She's crying over victories they're getting in different states where laws are being passed that you cannot do transgender surgery on children.

You cannot put them on hormone blockers. So we've got some clips for you and we'll take a bunch of calls when we come back. Stay right here.

We'll be right back. I believe it's Monday, March 20th. We don't have a location locked in yet, either a university in London or a mosque on whether Muhammad is prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. And then three days after that on Thursday, March 23rd, back here in the States, this will be just online only. The debate in England will be live streamed as well, God willing, but we'll have an audience in person and we'll be in the same place. The one March 23rd will just be live streamed, we'll be in different locations, but that's when I'll be debating the Saqqari leader, Hebrew Israelite leader Ahazar on the question of who the real Jews are, Ashkenazi Jews or the Hebrew Israelite 12 tribe chart. So this is gonna be very important debates and just getting ready for the minute. Hopefully we can set up a debate with Rabbi Shmuley.

Looks like we're gonna do that in June and that'll be physical in person at a certain location, but more to come on that. But one of the things I love to do, just talking about debates. When I've been asked to speak on college campuses on controversial issues, most campuses don't even try to get me in or I'm too controversial for them, they won't bother. But when I have been asked to come in, I'll say, could you get someone from the other side to debate me? Because I want the students to hear both sides presented as clearly as possible. Can you get someone qualified from the other side to debate me? And this way they'll hear everything clearly and then from there, from there, they can make their decisions.

And if they can't find anyone, which is often the case, they can't find anyone. So I do appreciate these gentlemen, one challenging me to debate the other, accepting an invitation to debate. I really appreciate them stepping forward to do this. I take these very seriously.

But if we can't do that, then on the campus, I say, okay, then let's have open mic Q&A after so people can challenge my views. Because I want people to hear everything. Those who have the truth, bring it to the light. We've got nothing to hide. So pray for God's anointing clarity and grace. And again, those who stand with us, who pray for us, who partner with us, thank you. You hold our hands up as we touch people around America and around the world. But let's go to the phones. We'll start with James in Massachusetts.

In Massachusetts, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, how are you doing, Mr. Brown? Doing very well, thank you. Good, I just wanted to touch on the idea of revival with everything that's going on in, I think it's in Kentucky. Asbury, am I saying it right?

Yeah, Asbury, yeah, in Wilmore, Kentucky, yep. Okay, okay, great, great. So I'm not there, I'm not in person. So I reserve judgment for anything I can't be physically a part of, you know?

And I've seen a lot of stuff both ways, this and that. But I can tell you this, I've been hearing you, brothers, talk about revival for some time. And I wanna tell you that I'm 47 years old, became this faith when I was 30, didn't grow up with any religion or anything like that.

I studied on my own, reading the scriptures day and night for hours a day. And what I came to was a messianic Jewish faith. I'm a Gentile, and, excuse me for a second, guys, can you go into the living room, please? I'm on the phone, thank you, thank you.

My kids, anyway. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so, and of course at the time, I didn't know anything about messianic Judaism, right? I was ignorant, I was like, oh, I thought it was Christianity or Judaism. But I saw what I saw, and I went to this one pastor that I did know, and he actually encouraged the faith of this and that, so that's kinda my origin. And then I got strong in it.

I did find a messianic temple, a synagogue in Worcester that I attended for like four years with mostly believing Jews who were great brothers of mine and stuff like that. But then, you know, about maybe six years in or so, seven years into the faith, I was really doing strong. I had gotten into a mentorship program. I had to go to jail, working with guys up there because I'm an ex-con myself, you know, so I felt that was an appropriate place for me to be. And the Lord was really working there, okay? But in personal prayer, the Lord spoke to me, he said, listen, you're gonna unpack some from my past.

You know, I grew up mostly in residential programs, you know, from my early age. Yeah, just hang on one second. Just so we can be more focused on the question, is it revival-related? Because I wanna make sure we get to the... It is revival, it is revival-related.

It is revival-related, it's not a question, it's a testimony about the revival. If that's okay. And that's where my story's coming in, I'm building context. Got it. Okay?

Got it. So, okay, so, where was I? Okay, okay, grew up hard, da-da-da. And so the Lord said, you're gonna unpack something that by the time now I'm 37 years old, I had never told anybody, and I'm not gonna put it on the air because it's too personal, but the point is, is it took me down the road of, you know, a fancy word that you'll understand is theodicy, right? I started to really get deep into that, and started to, I had to ask the question, okay, Lord, well, you know, all this happened, where were you, right?

Where were you in all that, right? And that really disrupted my faith, brother. This really disrupted my faith to the point where I stopped practicing. I never gave up on God, I never stopped believing.

I was always wrestling, always wrestling. You know, but I can tell you that I definitely stepped backwards. I definitely stepped backwards in some ways, okay? So in some old-nature stuff, and I was really feeling lost, but still just, like, Jacob, man, I got the Lord by the heel. You know, I was like, let's let you go, man. We gonna work this out. You know, and we worked it out. We worked it out, and for about a year and a half now, I've been slowly kinda coming back, getting my faith, kinda getting my feet back up under me.

You know what I mean? And, well, over the last, like, maybe six months, brother, over the last, even the fifth last couple of months, there has been this move in me of revival that is powerful. It's like I'm being born again, again. Yeah, I mean, James, that's what we constantly hear in times of revival. Pastors, leaders, would come to Brownsville in Pensacola, and James, the pastors would say, I brought my people because they needed a fresh touch from God.

He said, I found out I needed a fresh touch from God, and they'd all say the same thing. I felt like I got born again all over again. So you're saying apart from being in a church that's experiencing revival, apart from whatever's happening in Asbury and around the country, that God has been pouring out His Spirit, and you've been experiencing personal revival. Yes, that's how I came to faith.

Listen, in my late 20s, I was still on the streets, I was hustling and doing stuff, right? And the Lord started to pull me, just put it in my heart, right? Nobody knocked on my door, no passing, no Jehovah's Witnesses, no nothing like that.

It was a move that was organic in size. And I kinda was like, no, at first I was like, when I finally said, yeah, I just wanna sound arrogant, but I said, okay, Lord, but I got rules. I said, I'll open this book, but I'm not going to church, I'm not going nowhere. And then God took over. Yes, so James, what you're saying, and I want folks to be encouraged by this, thank you for writing in that personal word, something's happening, something's happening. That's what I've been saying for a month, well, I've been saying it, feeling it, believe me, for years, so this is gonna be one place, all over, the tide is rising, all over, God is moving. So here's someone individually struggling, hurting, questions, God, how can you be good? And all this suffering in the world, messes with his faith and his walk with God, and now something just starts happening. It's in the air, so to say.

You're gonna see it specially touching young people, mark it down, you're gonna see it specially touching young people. And those who've been the most skeptical and the most hostile, you're gonna be seeing radical conversions. Hey James, thanks for that, and keep pressing in, because this is the time to see radical change come. We've got to seize the moment.

I got an email or a text yesterday from an international leader, he's seen over a million Muslims come to the Lord, he has connections with Muslim leaders, even terrorist leaders he gets to interact with, it's amazing the connections that he has. And he said to me, I've just heard of 22 different locations where the Spirit's moving mightily. Something is happening, friends, let's seize the moment.

All right, back to the phones, let's go to Spencer in Florida. So we're off the topic of revival now, over to you, sir. Excellent, and just, can you hear me okay?

I can hear you. Excellent, so my question is related to the Shema. And in the Shema, clearly when he says, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might. And then Jesus, in the New Testament, says the greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might. And then he adds a word, which is mind. But I understand in the Old Testament, labab, heart, did mean thoughts.

To, I guess, admit my personal bias here. My personal bias is, I wanna say that Jesus added to the word of God because he was God. And he said he added the word mind in order to kinda make that connection, that Jesus was the, basically the fulfillment to bring us to a complete knowledge and understanding of God by the mind, by his word. That's my personal bias, but before I go down that road, I wanna make sure that I'm correct with that assumption.

Right, so I don't think the assumption is correct, actually. So just to break it down, so labab in Hebrew, labab or lab is heart, but it can also refer to intersect with mind. So bechol avav chavachol nav shechavachol modecha, but with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might. So when in Matthew 22, when this is quoted on the lips of Jesus, and all your mind is added in, it's just, it's an expansion. It's simply an expanding on, because you're going from Hebrew, it could be Matthew's edition there to clarify. You're going from Hebrew into Greek. So sometimes things are added because a word, like in Hebrew, if you're talking about really feeling it on the inside, you feel it in the kidneys. We'd say, well, I feel it in my heart. Well, it's different than the Hebrew heart.

So the anatomy can be different. So this is just a way of saying it's heart and mind. It's all of your being, with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your emotions, with all your will, with all your strength. It's just an expansion.

It's not because he came in a unique way that now we could love God with all of our minds. It's rather an expansion of the text. It's a further explanation. It's like a paraphrase to add this in, to say all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, all your being. Like I might expand on that. What does it mean? It means with everything you have, everything you are. So that's just Jesus expanding and clarifying. So I wouldn't read as much into it as you are.

I just believe it's him explaining the text a little more fully. But thank you, sir, for the call and for asking. Keep digging, keep digging.

866-34-TRUTH. We go over to Eric in Minnesota. Welcome to the line of fire. Are you there, Eric? Okay, Eric is not here. Okay, I don't know. Tell you what, tell you what.

Let me play a brief clip for you. Kelly Nugent and I have become good friends. Kelly is perhaps the loudest, strongest voice in America, raising her voice to warn don't transition children. Kids identify as transgender. Do not put them on hormone blockers. Do not put them on drugs. Do not, hormone blockers to stop the onset of puberty.

Do not do surgery on them. It is butchering kids. It is child abuse. And Kelly says, I know, I know, because I transitioned myself. That's what Kelly would say. When you see her, everyone knows Kelly as Scott. She sent me this clip the other day, and she's totally fine with me calling her Kelly. It's not an insult.

She is, she's the mother of her children. On the other side of the break, I'm gonna play this clip and then get back to your call. Stay right here. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us. In case you missed that number, it's 800-771-5584. So Kelly Nugent, known to the world as Scott Nugent, she and I became friends when she wrote an article for Newsweek as Scott Nugent saying, we need to reconsider what we're doing, transitioning children. It took two years to get the article, for someone to publish it.

It's up to date, it's annotated, it's documented. And Kelly said, hey, I'll work with anybody, regardless of who you are. And so I reached out and then Kelly got to know me a little, said, nah, your views, you believe in conversion therapy.

Those are the words that gays can change and so on. And now I can't work with you. And then felt bad, said, hey, I reached out my hand and said, I'll work with anybody. You're the first one that responded and I pushed your way. So we become good friends. Kelly's been on the air with me and she sent me this clip.

So again, the world knows Kelly as Scott Nugent and she's just seeing now different states passing laws. And I was touched by this and I just want you to see how important this is, how much pain she carries because of her going through transition was I made a terrible mistake. What did I do? I destroyed my body.

I cut my life down prematurely so my kids won't have me here in their lives. So this is raw, but here you go. So I'm gonna have a little bit of a breakdown. Four and a half years ago, we wrote, well, Fred wrote the first bill for South Dakota and it didn't pass and it just passed. And Nebraska yesterday, even though I was spit on by some of the protesters, we had everybody in the whole room fighting for these kids.

We had evangelicals, we had gay people, we had trans people, we had D-trans people. We're saving these kids, I'm telling you we are. Just keep screaming, please. Just keep it going.

We got Arkansas, we got Utah, we've got, Nebraska's coming, Missouri's coming, we're doing it. This is so wrong on so many levels. Thank you, everybody, I'm having a little break down. I just got the news.

This has been so hard. That's a courageous voice there. That's a courageous voice. Someone that did not wanna be in public but said, I must shout this out. This is someone who had sex change surgery that transitioned from female to male, which obviously you cannot actually do. We could transition from one sex to another. Shouting out, don't do this to kids.

Please don't do this to kids. And having even gay and trans activists standing together saying, don't do this to kids. People are speaking up, the tide is turning. We just must lead the way as the church, but the time is now.

And then my friend, Pastor Shane Adleman, been on the air with us numerous times. And a great voice for revival, for repentance. A great clear voice in America today. This is at a school board meeting, talking about materials, books that are being given out. He's telling me that great things are happening at the meeting, even atheists, people involved in school are asking for prayer. So here he's not yelling, shouting, because there's a lot of yelling, shouting. Shouting both ways. And I just want you to hear what he had to say. Sent me this clip just a couple hours ago. This is at the school board meeting as he's speaking up and calling things out.

Thank you, board, for your time. I have a little different perspective on the pastor here in town. I was born in Lancaster, lived here all my life, and I've been watching a lot of the school districts and the drama unfold the last few years. And I've wept with homosexuals and same-sex attraction. And so when we speak the truth and love, it's not hate speech, it's love. And I just wanted to springboard off of two things you said. California code says such and such.

When it comes to you in positions of leadership, and you are responsible for this, and I wanted to see who you individuals are, I've never been to a board meeting, and I didn't think this would actually come to our area, honestly. You, legal or lawful, is not always legal. Or I should rephrase that, legal is not always lawful. So just because something is legal doesn't mean it's lawful.

So somebody, the board, somebody can stand up to the state of California and say, listen, this is not right. We can murder children in the womb and we call that legal, but that's not lawful, it's not right. Also, separation of church and state, you have a Bible verse up there, the golden rule. And the public school system was founded to teach kids the word of God.

Now, Grant, I know you have to be careful in this area, but you can oppose what California is pushing. I don't think it's parental consent. I think it shouldn't even be allowed in the schools. What this is, it is actually a form of child abuse. This book, what you're allowing in the schools is a form of child abuse. It's mental, emotional child abuse.

This is not good for children. I counsel kids, we bury kids with fentanyl overdoses, heroin overdoses, cutting themselves. And you won't take that pain away because they need hope, not capitulation. All you're doing is you're giving in to something that will not help them. And so I would really want you to consider not only this book, but the future direction of the school district. What are we actually teaching our kids?

Is it something that's gonna help them or hurt them? And this is a very strong topic. Very strong topic, what we're dealing with here with our kids. And it demands a very strong challenge, a very strong rebuke, and that's why I'm here. To just, number one, let you know we support our leaders. I know it's a hard job, trust me.

I've got a lot of enemies myself. But you are held, you are going to be accountable for what you allow into our schools. And somebody needs to stand up and say, this is not right.

We cannot allow this. Yes, it might cost you friends, but times change. Truth does not. We need men and women to stand up and begin speaking the truth in love.

That's the key. I can say I love all these groups here. I truly do. But I can speak the truth and say, this is not right.

When did love speech become hate speech? It makes no sense to me. So thank you. And remember, this is, this is California. This is not the friendliest territory. He's going against the grain there. But when you've got, say, a book that kids are reading in kindergarten to help them understand that maybe they're a boy trapped in a girl's body or a girl trapped in a boy's body, that is child abuse.

That is sending confusion. And you know what we discovered over the years is that it's important to go to the city council meetings and school board meetings and be witnesses, but ultimately to bring about change, you need to get righteous people on the boards. Just like people have their own agenda, they vote, right?

It's democratic society. Well, let's vote for people that are gonna stand for, we believe are right values, not to try to get everyone in the school to become Christian, but to say, let's keep the things out that don't belong. So we're always gonna be bringing that to your attention as we stand for a gospel-based moral and cultural revolution here in America. And the transformation will come out of a revived church. As the church gets healthy, the nation gets healthy.

It is that simple. And that is a theme that I live with 24 seven. And that's why you hear about it so much here on the line of fire.

All right, let's go back to the phones, changing subjects again over to Samantha in Toronto, Ontario. Welcome to the line of fire. Yes, thank you very much.

You're welcome. So my question relates to Deuteronomy 21, verses 10 to 14. So it says, when thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, and seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and have a desire unto her, that thou would have her to be thy wife, then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head and pare her nails, and she shall put the raiment of her captivity from offer, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month. And after that, thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou shalt have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whether she will, but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou has tumbled her. So my question is, you know, Israel was not to take foreign wives. It was a pretty exclusive command.

So why was this allowance made? Yeah, so obviously all of it would sound very harsh to us today. The first thing is, normally in a war like that, she would have been killed. So it was Mersa and her not to be killed, and then God is still calling for mercy on her if the person is released. But it's a great question in terms of the other part of it, in terms of taking foreign wives. In this case, the understanding would be that she would become part of the people of Israel. That has to be implicit, that she would leave her old life behind and become part of the people of Israel, because normally when you're intermarrying with foreign wives, you're intermarrying with a foreign culture. You're intermarrying with the people.

Well, that's now been severed. In other words, that enemy has been vanquished. People have been killed. This is a survivor from that who's now joining the people of Israel, and obviously if she didn't conform, then the man could divorce her or couldn't sell her. He's already been with her, so she's been defiled in that sense. But your question is a totally fair question, and you just have to make an assumption that in a case like this with a vanquished enemy, that this woman would now become part of the people of Israel, just like Rahab the harlot did. Obviously hers was willingly. Her nation was vanquished, but she was spared and became part of the people of Israel and even part of the lineage of the Messiah. So we have to assume it, right?

Otherwise it would be a violation, marrying the foreign wife. So it would have to be, she's obviously like a Ruth or Rahab who would now become part of the nation, part of the people. Can that be implied in verse 12 where it says she shall shave her head?

I know some commentaries say that. Yeah. That was a symbol that she, yeah.

It could be. It's also a sign of mourning. In other words, that's why she spends a month lamenting her family because they've all been killed and have been separated.

The other thing is Israel could take slaves from the foreign nations. And not everything under the law reflects God's perfect desire. Like divorce was not his perfect desire, but that was part of the world in which they lived in an accommodation. So even the idea of let her mourn, give her time for that, whether it symbolizes conversion or acceptance of that, it's possible, but that would not be a normal conversionary practice. That was more a practice of mourning. And with it though, there is a new beginning as well. That's a great question. Normally people ask the humanitarian nature of it, but great question. And if I dig up anything else culturally of interest, I'll bring it up on a future broadcast. Hey, thoroughly Jewish Thursday coming your way tomorrow, ready for all your Jewish related calls. Be blessed. Another program powered by the truth network.