Replacement Theology and the Promises to Israel

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So how exactly does replacement theology work itself out in the scriptures? It's time for the line of fire with your host biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the line of fire. And now here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. And welcome, welcome to the line of fire.

It is Michael Brown. It is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. I'm delighted to be with you coming from our studio today in Fort Worth at Mercy Culture, where I just taught at the spiritual leadership school. So this week I've had the joy of teaching my three days at Christ for the Nations, then one morning at Upper Room School, and now my two mornings here at spiritual leadership school at Mercy Culture.

So the same voice, but those who are watching different backdrop. OK, 866-34-TRUTH is the number to call 866-34-TRUTH. Any Jewish related question of any kind, anything ties in with the people of Israel today, the Hebrew language, Jewish custom tradition, you name it.

Anything Jewish related of any kind. Very, very happy to take your call as we do every Thursday, 866-34-87884. I, as I'm talking to you, those watching will know I'm doing something on my computer as I was pulling up my Bible software. It went into an endless cycle of, well, I don't even know how to describe it. And I'm trying to get it to shut down. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to restart my computer. You won't know a difference, but I'm just telling you in advance, if you're watching, that is what is going on.

Restart indeed. OK. You may notice. Those of you who are watching and you are acutely observant, you will notice that I'm wearing a shirt that I wore on Monday. How could you wear the same shirt on the broadcast the same week?

Well, one thing is radio. I could wear the same shirt every day and radio is radio and podcast is podcast. And hey, I'm your voice for Royal Saturday, my spiritual clarity, not your face, right, but I'm in the midst of a really interesting trip, so flew in Sunday night. I've got five days here in Dallas, Fort Worth. Then after radio tomorrow, I fly to Jackson, Mississippi, to Wesleyan Biblical Seminary to do be part of a scholarly conference all day Saturday on the Bible and sexuality. And then and that's a jacket and tie conference. So I've been in casual attire through the week. Then Saturday jacket and tie conference. Then I fly from there to Hawaii.

Yeah. Teaching at a school of ministry one day. Grads from our school have led that for years. And then three days with the entire student body at YWAM, everyone in the discipleship training program, they're teaching on moral culture. So we'll be actually broadcasting from Hawaii. Then we prepared some special broadcast to play when I'm in Hawaii. In any case, there's almost so much you can pack in your luggage.

So I've got three different settings. I've got jacket and tie. I've got casual that I've got short sleeves in Hawaii. So I thought, okay, I'm just going to bring certain things and wash certain clothes on the road. So here we are.

And those watching, that means tomorrow you're going to see a shirt you saw early in the week as well as background information. Okay, replacement theology, replacement theology. I don't work with anyone or interact with anyone. Biblical scholars, theologians, pastors, leaders. I don't interact with anyone who says of themselves, fellow workers, colleagues, we hold to replacement theology. They don't say that.

They don't hold to that. Those that hold to what I would call replacement theology, they would say it's fulfillment theology or expansion theology or transferral theology, but none of them would say replacement theology because they know that that's a bad word or supersessionism. But the church has superseded Israel, that somehow the covenants that God gave to Israel in the Old Testament now apply to the church in the New Testament, that what Israel was called to do in the Old Testament is now done through the church in the New Testament. And some would say, well, it's always been the ecclesia. It's always been the the the people of God. So the people of God is just a little different now. It's more gentile than it used to be. It was mainly all ethnic Israel. Now it's more gentile with some ethnic Israel and nothing's changed.

That's what someone argued. The problem is everything does change. Everything does change. And as I've been interacting with some precious men, love the Lord, serious about following Jesus, serious about the word, good scholars, and one of them said, I don't hold, Michael, I don't hold to replacement theology.

But you do. We may still differ on the outcome and how we interpret certain verses. But please understand that it is replacement theology. So, for example, for example, when you say when you make the statement that Jesus is the promised land, Jesus is the new Israel.

Jesus is the temple. Jesus is the promised land. When you make that statement, that is replacement theology.

You know, there are many Christians who teach that and Christian scholars. And, yeah, Jesus is the new promised land. So that to me is like telling a Jewish refugee from the concentration camps after the Holocaust and now making their way to Israel and telling them, oh, no, no, no, Jesus is the promised land.

That would just be like telling a starving person, oh, Jesus is the bread of life. You see, the reality is that there are promises that God gave to Israel that have never been rescinded. Even though my people have sinned, like the church has sinned.

We've all sinned and fallen short. The church stands by grace. Israel stands by grace. In other words, the reason that God has preserved the Jewish people through the years is not because of Jewish good works, but because of God's mercy, the reason that God has preserved the church through the years is not because the church is good works, but because of God's mercy, we all stand by grace.

All right. And we all enter into right relationship with God through faith in Jesus the Messiah. That's the same for Jew and Gentile. So I live day and night to see my Jewish people saved. I grieve over Jewish friends and colleagues that don't know the Lord.

As sincere as they are, I grieve over them. So, yes, Jews and Gentiles are lost the same way, come under God's judgment without faith in the Messiah. If they reject the Messiah, they reject God's mercy.

That doesn't mean that the promises don't remain. Paul writes in Romans nine and says that he's brokenhearted. He has continual sorrow, unceasing pain for his people. He wishes that he himself could be cut off from the Messiah. Cut off from the Messiah if only Israel could be saved. That he would rather be damned if that could bring his Jewish people to salvation. Obviously, that's not the way it works, but that's how deep he was pained. And he says in five different ways at the beginning of Romans nine that this was his burden.

In other words, I'm not exaggerating a word. That's what he's saying. And his people, the Israelites, after the flesh, what does he say? Theirs are the covenants, theirs are the promises, not were, are.

This is something ongoing. The promises remain, the covenants remain. They are still given to the people of Israel. Paul writes in Romans three seventeen that the promise, which was followed by the law four hundred thirty years after, that the law cannot nullify the promise that was given earlier. So under the Sinai covenant, if the Jewish people obey and honor the Lord and observe the Torah, that he would bless them in the land, make them the head, not the tail. If they disobeyed, he would drive them out of the land and they would be cast away into different nations and and suffer that that would happen. However, because God made a promise, a prior promise to Israel, he can bring the Jewish people back whenever he wants. As he said in Ezekiel thirty six, after the Babylonian captivity and with a future for ongoing fulfillment, it still takes place to this day. I'm not bringing you back because your obedience. I'm bringing you back in your uncleanness, but because my name is being defiled. That's why I am doing it.

That remains. So you see, when someone will say very sincere Christian, though I'm not replacement theology, I'm fulfillment theology, and now all the promises are fulfilled through Jesus. All the promises are fulfilled. So God made promises to physical Israel in the Old Testament and they are now fulfilled spiritually through Jesus in the New Testament. He becomes the new Israel. He's the epitome of Israel. He's the new temple.

He's the new promised land. So everything's fulfilled through him. Obviously, there is no salvation outside of him that we understand.

There is no salvation outside of faith in Jesus, the Messiah. That remains true. That remains true.

But at the same time. At the same time, it is essential to understand that God gave promises to the physical people of Israel, to the sense of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, those who have joined the people through conversion over the centuries. And those promises remain the same.

Nothing has changed in that regard. That's why God has preserved the Jewish people around the world, preserved my people, even when we rejected Moses, the prophets, the Messiah. He still preserved us and kept us. And that is why after all these centuries, he brought us back to the land and is why he put Jerusalem back in Jewish hands, because the promises remain. If you say, no, no, I'm not replaced with theology. I'm going to push it a little further. So when God says to physical Israel, to the Jewish people in the Old Testament, I will scatter you in my anger, but regather you in my mercy.

Well, who is the you? Well, Jewish people scattered under judgment. Is that true?

Is that plain? Yes, we were scattered under judgment. Jesus weeps over Jerusalem in the New Testament. Yeshua weeps because we're going to be scattered and come under judgment. He even says it that Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. He prophesies that as well.

You'd be taken captive to all nations. He prophesies all those things. And I will regather you in my mercy. Is it the same you or not? If it's not the same you, then it's replacement theology. I've had Christian leaders say to me, when God says I will scatter you in my anger, that's the Jewish people. I will regather you in my mercy.

That's the church. I've had them tell me that and tell me they're not replacement. That's replacement.

You just replace the people or or how about this? I will scatter you in my anger. Who's that? The Jewish people. The physical scattering. Yes. And I'll regather you in my mercy. That means bringing the Jewish people back to the Messiah.

So in other words, the scattering is physical. The regathering is spiritual. That's another form of replacement. You're changing the terms.

You're changing the foundations. You're changing the covenants. God makes a covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. New Covenant, right?

Jeremiah 31 verses 31 to 34. I'm making a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. It is not making a new covenant with the different people, but a new covenant with the same people. Israel and Judah. How else is God going to clearly say I'm talking about that people, Israel and Judah? It is through Israel and Judah being a light to the nations. And the Messiah being the Jewish Messiah, which makes them the Savior of the world. It's through the covenant with Israel that now it goes to the whole church.

It goes to the whole world. But it doesn't displace Israel's role as the foundation. And then as if there was any question, I go to these verses over and over as if there was any question, we have Jeremiah 31 verses 35 to 37, where God says, no matter what happens, as long as heaven and earth endure, until you can discover the the borders of the universe, until you can plumb the depths of the earth, as long as sun, moon, star, as long as it's still here, my covenant with Israel remains. And he says, no matter what they do, they're always going to remain a people.

If that people that he was talking to, the physical people, if that now becomes the church as a whole, that's replacement theology, but that's what you hope to at least own it, at least own it, and then recognize the destructive, horrific effect it had through church history, the destruction of so many Jewish lives because of that wrong theology. That's my request. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

The line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. There you go. Yeah. Thursday, the sacred words of the Shema, Hero Israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is one. Let's often jump in ahead, ready to dive in, forgetting we've got our special Jewish music. You know, the funny thing, as I was talking to everyone that's watching on live stream, we're having an issue getting our stream up today. And some of you were seeing me without hearing. So we'll post all the audio later so you won't miss the broadcast if there's any issue.

But even describing the outfit with 99 percent of the people will never get to see it. Well, there we go. There we go.

All right. Remember, your questions must be Jewish related. Any question of any kind, that's tomorrow. So calls are coming in, but they're not Jewish related. So only Jewish related calls we take on Thursday. And by the way, don't try to make it Jewish.

If it's not a Jewish related question, save it for tomorrow. OK, 866-348-7884. So I want you to be I would love for you.

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So we got to meet and exchange warm words as fellow human beings, one to another at the at the occasion of my mother's passing. And he he told me to listen to me on the radio every day. And if he missed the show, he would get the podcast.

I remember ultra-orthodox rabbi called and said, hey, we disagree on this, but we're on the same side of these other issues. So we are really eager to get back on different stations around America where we can reach a much larger Jewish audience. So many people to this day do their main listening on radio. Podcast is huge. We're out there.

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No hype, no exaggeration. You're literally partnering with us to help reach Jewish people with the good news of the Messiah. All right. I've got a bunch more things to share with you. The Jewish Israel related of great interest, but we will go to the phone starting with Aaron in New York. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello, Dr. Brown, I've been hey, I've been listening to your show for a while, and I do have a question about the Brit Mall and press rights, the society and the circumcision.

Yeah. OK, so I'm Christian, but in my area, the medical community will not properly do the circumcision because they do it in the one to three day range, which is dangerous. Well, the local Moils will not do it until the second week, which is also medically safer, right, the eighth day. But I also would like to know, is there, like, a standard ceremony for the blessings or formulation for the blessings? Or does it vary based on denomination of Judaism?

There's basically a standard formula. There may be some customs that vary from an ultra orthodox bris, ultra orthodox circumcision to compare to reform. But as far as I know, it's basically the same formula that's that's recited the same words, the same prayers, pretty much used unless things change very dramatically with reform over the years, it's pretty much the same. Now, of course, as as a as a Christian, as a follower of Jesus, you are a child of Abraham by faith. And circumcision was never given as a requirement for Gentile believers. In fact, Paul resisted that, that Gentiles thought they had to be circumcised and obey the law of Moses in order to be saved. However, if you believe that just for safety purposes and hygiene, that it's best to to circumcise on the eighth day and the ones that are doing that are rabbis, I don't know which rabbi would do it just for a Christian for those purposes. In other words, if someone is a messianic Jew and they say, hey, we're Jewish and still Abraham a covenant, we're not doing it for salvation, but it's just part part of our our covenantal harmony. There are rabbis who have done those, even for messianic Jews, because they say, hey, it's still a Jewish kid, Jewish baby, and we want to do it. So I'm not exactly sure which rabbi would do it for a Gentile Christian who says, I just believe circumcision should be on the eighth day. Would you be willing to perform it?

But what they're saying, though, the Jewish prayers wouldn't apply. You know what I'm saying? The ceremony.

I did find one. Oh, really? But he gave us the option, since we're not Jewish, he gave us the option to just do the circumcision or if we'd like, we can also do some of the ceremonial aspects.

And I figured any opportunity to give God thanks and praise would be a good thing. Yeah. And you could just ask him, hey, could you just tell me what you're saying? Right. And then you could say this is appropriate or not. Or you could just say, all right, even though this doesn't fit exactly, I'm doing this in solidarity with Jewish people.

Yeah, if you do it with that right spirit. Sure. So I don't need to know names, of course. But what kind of rabbi was it? What what background? I'm not sure. I think he's associated with the light of Israel. OK, yeah, I don't know exactly.

Light of Israel could be many different groups. Very interesting. Yeah. So there's there's not like some esoteric or mystical thing or some pronouncements that are going to be wrong or like, you know, bring in the dark side or Kabbalah, you know, whatever people might worry about.

No, it's just it's basic. It's beautiful. And sure, if he's willing to do it, wonderful.

And if you feel it's best for health reasons, why not? Yeah, and give thanks to God in the process. Sure thing. Thank you for the call, sir. Good. Oh, yeah.

I did find only a couple of formulations. Basically saying something to the effect of blessed Lord our God, King of the universe, who sanctified us with thy commandments and has given us a commandment concerning circumcision or something to that effect. Yeah, that's that standard. Many, many Jewish prayers begin with those words and you sanctify us through his commandments and then it'll go into various rabbinic tradition like light or the Sabbath candles or or things like that. So in that sense, you you are not saying that your your son is now being set apart and sanctified to obey the Torah. And this is his initiation into that as a child of Israel. But as however you interpret it spiritually, as long as, again, you do it with the right spirit. Sure, there's nothing like I said, it's an Israelite prayer. It's a Jewish prayer.

It's a Jewish inclusion. It's presuming Torah obedience and all of that. But if that's what he's if he's doing it in that spirit, you know, let him let him do it.

But that's for you to work out, you know, with your family, just decide what what should be said and what shouldn't said. The key thing is, you know, as far as salvation, it means nothing. It does not add or take away from someone's salvation. And there's absolutely no command for Gentile to have a son circumcised on the day. However, there's nothing wrong with it, especially if you believe it's best for health purposes.

And if a rabbi is willing to do it, more power to him. Excellent. Thank you. You are very welcome.

Thanks for the call. Eight six six three four eight seven eight eight four. So as I've been teaching this semester, the second year at spiritual leadership school about God's purposes for Israel and as they're reading our hands are stained with blood and they're shocked to see the history of anti-Semitism in the church. And and Luther's anti-Semitism in this church leader, in that church leader, and how the Jewish people were persecuted by the church or given choices by crowds during the Crusades of baptism or death and horrific things like that.

Some of them repudiated by church leaders, others in harmony with what church theology led them to. And and one of the students was saying, I just never knew this. Here I am in my thirties reading the Bible and studying those.

I never knew any of this. And I said, listen, I I've taught at leading seminaries in America. I mean, leading seminaries, everyone recognized leading seminaries with leading church historians, leading scholars, top people, people that their knowledge of church history is like literally a thousand to one of what I know in church history.

But this area, it's a blind spot. And I've asked these professors, at what point do you teach about anti-Semitism in church history? At what point you teach about Christastom's horrific seven sermons against the Jews. At what point do you talk about Luther's anti-Semitism? At what point do you give a Jewish perspective on the Crusades?

And and they looked at me sadness in their eyes. We don't we don't. So it is a massive blind spot that remains in the church. And that's why I keep hitting on this replacement theology issue. It still exists today.

Still here today. Needs to be dealt with. It doesn't mean you're an anti-Semite if you hold to it. But it does open the door to anti-Semitism.

It has in church history. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on a thoroughly Jewish Thursday, Michael Brown. Delighted to be here with you 866-34-8788 for any Jewish related question of any kind, by all means, give us a call if you're someone that disagrees with me. If you're a Christian who disagrees with me on this theology, or you think that Christian support of Israel today is misguided. If you are a Jewish person and you differ, by all means, give me a call.

866-34-TRUTH. I'm going to dive into Isaiah 62 in a moment. But first, a Hebrew related point. As I have studied down more of the issues of the Hebrew Israelites, so-called Hebrew Israelites, and getting ready for a debate that I'm scheduled to have, I believe it's March 23rd with a Sicari leader. So a radical Hebrew Israelite group.

And we're scheduled to debate who the real Jews are, the Ashkenazi Jews versus the so-called 12 tribe chart. I have to be candid. I'll just be totally honest with you. I've rarely in my life, with all the debates I've done, with all the people I've encountered, all the groups I've interacted with, I have rarely in my life run into stuff this bogus, this bizarre. I could make a better case from me being Santa Claus incarnate performing Elvis Presley tribute concerts. I can make a better case for that than some of their arguments. I mean, beyond belief bogus. But when people believe that and that's what they've heard and that's what they've taken in. And quote, evidence is presented to support it. Many times it's very hard to reach people that have been that brainwashed or would have a severe level of hatred towards me as a white person, just like they're whites with severe level of hatred toward blacks or towards Asians or towards Jews and each group, they're haters in every corner. We understand that.

Haters everywhere. So if they just see for some, if they just see a white face, they're not going to listen at all. Or others, if they just see a black face, they won't listen.

If they see an Asian face, they won't listen. So there's prejudice. There's hatred. There's bigotry, discrimination on all sides.

I understand that. But there are many, many others who identify as Hebrew Israelites or those influenced by them in the Hollywood sports or different things that will be more open to truth and then maybe even some of the real hardcore ones when they see the extraordinary error that they'll be more willing to to to think about it and consider, OK, maybe these views are wrong. And then ultimately the goal is to get them into real saving faith through Jesus, Yeshua, the Messiah. The the key, the key thing, though, that that I've been looking at there, their whole so-called L'Shoah and Kodosh, the Kodosh, that their version of Hebrew. I don't think in my life I have ever run into anything more impossibly, ridiculously, absurdly, unbelievably wrong. I mean, the level of wrongness is such that going on Hebrew, because he was one of a number of Semitic languages, that for them to be right, every Semitic speaker in the world to this day. So everyone speaking Arabic and dialects of Arabic, everyone speaking Aramaic dialects, using Syriac in their church service like the Syrian church, every Hebrew speaker around the world and every Semitic speaker or writer in human history, including every ancient cuneiform inscription, Akkadian, Babylonian, Syrian, these different things, Phoenician, Punic, and Moabite inscription, you know, every Semitic speaker throughout all history, every Semitic speaker to this day, every grammar of every Semitic language, every map with Semitic names, every transcription of Hebrew in the New Testament and in every other language around the world through all history. They're all wrong. And this new revelation that somebody allegedly gets earlier in the 20th century about the right pronunciation of Hebrew, that one's right, I mean, it's hard to imagine.

It's hard to imagine anything more cult like, anything more absurd. That could well be one of the reasons that the Hebrew leader that said, hey, if you're giving open door to debate, I'm a leader, I'll debate you. Well, he declined debating on the real pronunciation of Hebrew. It could be he was savvy enough to I don't know.

So I'm not saying, but it could be he was savvy enough to know. That's not an argument you could make. But it's not it's just as well, we disagree with your Hebrew pronunciation. It's every Semitic language. It violates every single rule of morphology and phonology.

It violates every single rule of grammatical construction. And I mean, it's it is so mind bogglingly wrong. You think, how could anyone believe it? But hey, if you believe, for example, if you believe that everyone who is not over six feet tall and white, that they are actually an alien incarnate, that they are shape shifters. And and the more people deny it's real, it's real. So we've got to pray for a spirit of deception to be lifted off people. It's one thing when I debate a rabbi is Jesus, the Jewish Messiah.

And we're going back through what the text said. Here's an argument here. Here's an argument there. We're Calvinist versus an Armenian. You're having a debate or Protestant versus a Catholic. You're having a debate. So obviously I have views and convictions and all these things. But you're having you're having debates on different issues.

And you get your argument. You get your argument when it comes to Hebrew. And this this alleged Hebrew pronunciation, there's no debate. There's there's no more debate about that than that. I'm a human being speaking to you that I have a nose that I have.

There's no more debate. However, for the sake of those people in deception, you come with truth. But there's got to be a lot of prayer behind it, especially when you have these strongholds of deception. And then when you mix in the hatred and the bias again with any group, with any group that has it, you get deep into white racist hatred of blacks and denigrating, but they looked at black Americans as a lower class human being there were white Americans who weren't even hateful people. But in their theology, in the mindset, they're African, they're lower status in class, and that opened the door to all the horrors of slavery and segregation because people were dehumanized.

So that it happens. Tragically, it happens that the extermination of Jews in Europe, they were looked at as parasites and pariahs and subhuman. And you get there, you get rid of them to save the culture, to save the world. So this hatred can go in all kinds of different directions, but it can be overcome by a lot of prayer, perseverance and speaking the truth.

So as we get into these debates in the future, really, really pray that God would open hearts, open minds. Okay, with that, I'm going to go back to the phones. Let's go to Andrew in Mayden, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Are you there?

Andrew is not there. All right, let's try to go to Nathan in Charlotte, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. Thanks, Dr. Brown. How are you today? Doing great. Thanks. Good, good, good. Real quick.

I have two questions, and then I want to get off the phone and listen to what you have to say. I have a friend at work that showed me some videos of ultra-Orthodox rabbis. You were talking about the bris earlier, sucking blood out of the wound. Have you ever heard of that? Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's an ultra-Orthodox practice. And then the other thing, I'm going to let you talk when I'm done after this, but he also believes that the earth is flat, and he uses verses like Psalm 104-5 to say that because it talks about the foundations of the earth and it talks about the earth being fixed and immovable, that that means that the earth doesn't move, like it's not in orbit and it doesn't spin. And I know that you understand the Hebrew and the Greek, so I was hoping I could get off the phone and just let you talk about those two things for me just quickly. You bet. Surely.

Thank you for the call, Dr. Brown. Yes. So number one, number one, there is an ultra-Orthodox Jewish practice where the circumcision is performed and the blood is literally sucked, sucked out. And it is frowned on by many other parts of the Jewish community. I see absolutely no basis for it whatsoever in scripture. I see no reason whatsoever why it should be practiced. But it has been something that's been practiced obviously to outsiders. It's horrific and weird.

And what is that? And then ties in with all types of other libels and lies and false accusations against Jewish people or rabbis. But in certain ultra-Orthodox circles, it's considered the right thing to do and the best way to do things and keeping with Jewish law. But there is controversy over that.

But yeah, it is a practice. I'll get anyone to do that. All right. Have you ever cut your finger? Then the first thing you do is you you Laker, you suck the blood, right? So it's the same kind of thing. Now, some of you have never done that, but I've done it over the years.

And then I remember, oh, you shouldn't ingest blood. It's not a good thing to do. But in any case, it's that same kind of thing, except with circumcision. To me, it's a bizarre practice. I see no basis for it whatsoever. So I'm not going to argue the why of it.

But yeah, it does exist. Okay. If you want to try to read verses to say this, then you have to deal with, say, Isaiah talking about God sitting on the circle of the earth and who in itself means circle, or you have to deal here. Let's go to Psalm 111, for an example. Okay, Psalm 111. And it says this. Oh, let me get the right verses here. Hang on.

Do I have the right text in front of me? Okay. Lord is in his holy temple, Lord is on his heavenly throne.

He observes everyone on earth, his eyes examined them. Okay. Actually, no, it's another verse I'm thinking of. Sorry, but you have all kinds of poetic descriptions.

Sorry about that. You have all kinds of poetic descriptions in the Psalms where God has the earth on pillars, sitting on pillars. You have all these different descriptions. They are metaphorical.

They are spiritual pictures. When it says that the earth cannot be moved, the same way as the righteous cannot be moved, it's not talking about physical motion. It's talking about that God has established things and what he has established.

They're immovable. The fact that you have the Bible speaking of the circle of the earth means that you can't make an argument based on, oh, then it means it has to be spherical. Well, then what about the things that say the ends of the earth?

It simply means it's observable language as far as the eye can see. Unless you believe that the sun goes around the earth, not only a flat earth, but you believe that the sun goes around the earth, then what do you do? An Ecclesiastes says the sun rises and the sun sets. Or here, let's go to Psalm 19. Okay, let's go to Psalm 19 and look at what it says there. It's speaking of the sun in the heavens, God has pitched a tent for the sun.

It's like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, like a champion rejoicing to run his course. It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other. Nothing is deprived of its warmth. Does that mean that the sun is going in a circuit around the earth? Or is this just an observational language and poetic language? So please don't use the Bible contrary to how it was written and what it was intended for.

And don't throw out all scientific observation based on a misunderstanding of scripture. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again, it's Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome back to the line of fire. Those of us just joining us on the live stream that had video, but no audio, our apologies, but we'll post both on Facebook and YouTube later today. Our team will get up the audio from today. So everyone that takes this in via YouTube or Facebook will get the whole broadcast to you and you'll have the entire audio that you can listen to and enjoy. For everyone on radio podcast, like what was the problem? So, yeah, this just happened. Some streaming issues today. All right.

866-34-TRUTH. Oh, all right. Maybe the stream's not working either way, either way. Don't want to take more time in that. I want to come back to the question that was just raised. When you are reading history, you're reading a historical book. Syrian school, you're reading history. That's one thing. Then you go to another class and it's a novel. And it's just something that people made up.

Okay. Now you go to another class and it's English literature and it's poetry. So each one is a different genre. We understand that when you're reading the Bible, you've got historical narrative. You've got prophecy. Prophecy is not just history in advance. I mean, prophecy is not only speaking to the people of that day, but then the spiritual insight, but also about the future. But many times it's in visionary language. Many times the images are a little different than average history.

It's not as simple as just reading a headline. And then you have apocalyptic literature, like in the Book of Revelation or parts of Daniel, parts of Zechariah. And in that, you've got these various beasts and characters and things portrayed in these vivid colors and everything.

The end of the age is kind of filters in with that imagery. So you interpret everything as it should be interpreted. In other words, the literal interpretation of poetry is different than the literal interpretation of history. It's different than the literal interpretation of prophecy because they're each different genres.

So it's important to understand when you're reading poetry, that it's poetry and it's painting a picture and it's telling us. So the idea of the Earth not being moved. Well, we know all gravitational forces and everything. And then the Earth is being hurled, in a sense, around the sun at a certain rate of speed. And it's the law of gravity that keeps things from shifting all over.

So that's what's not being moved. And what it means even more than that, because they weren't even thinking about the Earth hurtling around the sun, because that was not the concept in the ancient world. And if the Bible made explicit statements that the sun goes around the Earth, then much of the world through much of history would have thought the Bible's wrong, because we all know that the sun goes around the Earth, not the Earth goes around the sun. That's what people would have thought, because we didn't have that understanding. The Bible's not addressing that.

It's not going to make a scientific statement there. When it's the Earth not being moved, it means it's going to stay here. It's staying here through history. There are earthquakes and storms and all this, but because God purposed that the Earth's not going to be moved, the Earth is staying right here. It has nothing to do with the geography of the Earth.

Is it flat or is it round? Nor is it addressing the issue of whether it's stationary or going around the sun. But the Bible uses observational language. The four corners of the Earth just means as far as you can see in each of the directions, north and south and east and west. That's what's being spoken about there.

But it's not something beyond that. And again, in Ecclesiastes one and then Psalm 19, which I read, it pictures the sun going out and a root around the Earth. Then it goes back to its kind of goes back in its cave, so to say, or in its house.

And then it comes back out. And then obviously, depending on where you are in the world, the sun's over here in one place and hidden in another place. We understand that to be the case.

But if you don't have that picture, just from where you are, it goes around here in the circuit and that's where it runs. It's just it's observational language. It's poetic language. Well, then the Bible's not true. No, it's it's absolutely true.

But don't take it to mean something it doesn't mean. You know, if you're reading the sports scores in the newspaper, that's not that's not an editorial piece. That's not an op ed. And if you're reading an op ed where someone is giving their opinion, that's not the same as as the stock market where it's given you. Here's the data.

This stock is worth this or that. So to read it literally means as it was intended to be read. And then again, I can give you different poetic pictures.

One is saying this and one saying that because I'm at the majesty of God and who he is and his oversight of the creation. So let's let's not make it say something that it is not saying. All right. Okay. Now, you know what? I'm just looking at the clock, I'm not going to take any calls. So I'm not going to give out the number once more either. Just a quick reminder. We are really excited to get out to my newest book.

Why so many Christians have left the faith. It's really interesting. The moment people see the cover, they love the cover.

It's a great cover if you haven't seen it. But the contents are really gripping because this is a reality. On the one hand, I'm seeing everywhere I turn young people flocking to church services with my own eyes, hungry, going after God, serious about God, not just in ministry schools and church services, coming to prayer meetings, fasting reports now that the spirit fell at Asbury Theological Seminary yesterday and the chapel started in the morning and went till midnight. And now hopefully the next day something's going on. I shout a note to Craig Keener and he got back to me and said, yeah, this is he said we got there maybe eight thirty last night, something like that.

He said they left close to midnight. So maybe even going on through the night and reports God's broken because there have been some historic revivals at Asbury. And have I been telling you, have I been telling you, you've been listening for many, many months, something's up, something's up. There's a fresh wave coming.

Something's up. And to me, it makes perfect sense because we've really messed up much of the church in America. We've really messed up. We've had so many scandals. I don't say that to attack or throw stones, but we've had so many scandals.

We've we've gotten so divided, hateful towards each other. We've had stains on us in the evangelical community and in the charismatic community and then ongoing issues, those of Catholic background and so many stains and issues and the failed Trump prophecies and on and on and on. And a lot of people just had it and walked out. And even covid exposing a lot of weakness in the church in different ways. And many people just dropped out and have never gone back. It's like, hey, who needs the fellowship?

Who needs to be in a building or in a house with other people? And there's just it's been a bad season. And we brought reproach to the name of Yeshua, the name of Jesus. And a lot of people have been hurt and a lot of dropped out. And it's it's really to me out of the ashes of that. We've gotten so political and so on out of the out of our failures that God, this mercy is we've humbled ourselves and cried out. Many have been praying for decades for an outpouring. So we've been praying 24 seven in their communities for an outpouring. God's moving the Holy Spirit's at work.

Things are happening. It is so important that we understand why people are leaving and understand the conflicts, the issues with sensitivity and then understand how to reach and how to help. So remember, if you yourself have struggled, if you're struggling with the faith, you've left the church. This book is for you. If you're going through deconstruction, you may have a whole chapter is deconstruction healthy. This is for you.

Or or if you have you have a friend, a loved one that's struggling or that's fallen away and no longer believes, this book will help you to understand them and reach them. So here's a number to call. This is this is exclusively through us. You can order anywhere online to get the book. It'll be out next month. But to get a an advance signed, numbered copy. So it's exclusive. It's only through our ministry.

Here's a number to call. Eight hundred five three eight fifty two seventy five. That's eight hundred five three eight fifty two seventy five. So I will personally sign each one. They'll each be numbered. So someone has book number one, number fifty, number one hundred, number two hundred. We just do it with the first printing.

It's kind of a custom that we've gotten into that we enjoy. And it's a way also if you're supporting our ministry work, our outreach. So you can go to our website and order AskDrBrown.org, AskDrBrown.org, just just click on store.

You can preorder or you can call eight hundred five three eight five ask. So I want to throw something out in closing that I have thrown out before and I've gone through this text before. But for those of you who say, no, we're not replacement, we're not supersessionists. We don't have replacement theology.

It's fulfillment theology. But OK, go through Isaiah sixty two, especially the first eight, ten verses where God appoints watchmen on the walls of Jerusalem and and and says, give me no rest until I establish Jerusalem, the praise of all the earth. Now, ask yourself when Isaiah spoke those words, when God spoke those words through Isaiah, what did they understand? Did they understand physical Jerusalem? Did they understand that city? Did they understand it was a Jewish Jerusalem? Did they understand those things?

And and when it was passed on through the generations right up to Jesus and the apostles, did they all understand it a certain way? And that we were to give God no rest. The beautiful Hebrew must keep Ray Adonai, those who put the Lord in remembrance.

Give him no risk. Give yourselves the rest and give him no rest until he establishes Jerusalem, the praise of all the earth. If that no longer means literal Jewish Jerusalem, exalted by God is the praise of all the earth. Isaiah two, all the nations will come streaming to Jerusalem and the millennial kingdom to learn of the God of Israel. There'll be no war. And Isaiah eleven, the knowledge of the glory of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the seas.

All of that will happen. If it is no longer talking about the city of Jerusalem and the Jewish people, then your replacement, if you say, well, that's the church or it's the heavenly Jerusalem or it's the spiritual people of God or what, as long as it's no longer in your teaching, that that is a prayer that God will establish Jerusalem. That city as the praise of all the earth, obviously is the Jewish people turned to Messiah and welcome Isaiah. Excuse me, Zechariah twelve, Zechariah fourteen, as the Messiah comes and sets his feet on the Mount of Olives, returning just as he left Acts one and Zechariah twelve.

They look to him where they pierced. If it's not talking about that, if it's not talking about a Jewish Jerusalem welcoming back the Messiah, Matthew twenty three thirty nine, the Jewish Jerusalem must welcome him back. It's not talking about that. If it's no longer Jerusalem, if it's the church or the heavenly Jerusalem, then just own it, your replacement theology, your supersession. Own it, if that's what you're holding. You can argue for it, but please own it. We'll be back taking calls on all subjects tomorrow. Another program powered by the Truth Network.