Answering Your Personal and Ministry Questions

The following is a pre-recorded program. Well, you know that I believe that the gifts and power of the Spirit, as mentioned in the New Testament, are for today as well. Many of you differ. We'll find out why today. Hey friends, welcome to the Line of Fire broadcast. We're gonna have a lot of fun today, constructive, edifying fun in the best sense of the word, as I'm gonna interact with some of you explaining why you don't agree with me on the gifts and power of the Spirit. I've had days where I've opened up the phones and said, hey, call in and explain why you don't agree with this or why you hold to this position or you differ with me on this. And some days we'll get flooded with calls. Some topics will get flooded with calls.

Others, people won't call for whatever reason. So I post it on Twitter and on Facebook. I already did this so don't respond now. I post it on Twitter and Facebook and I ask for responses. So I want to interact with these now because many of those responding will speak for you and I want to give you my feedback.

All right? I want to give you my reasons for believing what I believe. In my book, Authentic Fire, so I'm not taking calls today, so I'm not giving the number out. In my book, Authentic Fire, which was a response to Pastor John MacArthur's Strange Fire, written with respect and honor of a senior man of God and senior leader in the body with whom I differ on the gifts and power of the Spirit for today. In the book, I have a chapter called Sola Scriptura and therefore charismatic. Now if you're familiar with the term Sola Scriptura, it's a term that says that our faith is based on the written Word of God and not on outside tradition and not even on outside experience but based on Scripture. So as Paul says in Galatians 1, if I or an angel come and preach any other gospel to you than the gospel you've heard, then let that person, that angel, whoever it is, be accursed. And under the law in Deuteronomy 13, God said that he would test Israel, right, that someone might come who is a prophet or dreamer of dreams or a miracle worker and they might prophesize something or work a miracle and would come to pass and they'd say come follow other gods. No, God's testing you, right, so if an angel comes down with power and glory and everything in your room shakes and an angel says throw out the Bible, it's not God's Word and based on the Word, we're to rebuke that Spirit in Jesus' name. So get behind me, you don't have to say those exact words but you know what I'm saying, reject that as counterfeit.

Paul writes in 2 Corinthians the 11th chapter verses 13 through 15 that Satan himself comes as an angel of light. So it's going to be the same with false apostles, false prophets, and Paul specifically speaking there of false apostles, that they're going to come looking like real apostles, like the real thing, remember the counterfeit on some level has to look like the real. No one counterfeits a $3 bill because there are no $3 bills. So it has to look real in some way, it has to look authentic in some way. This has to have some resemblance, some deception in it that makes you think it's the real thing. No one calls you on the phone and says hey, I'm a con man and I want to steal all your money, will you give it to me?

No. The notorious stereotypical used car salesman of all, oh yeah this vehicle only had 4,000 miles on it, his grandma just drove it to church and that was it. Right, they got to have something that at least looks good to tell you that story, right? So Satan's going to come as an angel of light, there's going to be deception. 2 Thessalonians 2 talks about the man of sin, the antichrist working all types of counterfeit miracles. In the book of Revelation there are pictures of his demonic powers working counterfeit miracles. We know that the magicians imposing Moses were able to work some counterfeit miracles but they can only go so far, right?

The true miracles of God crushed theirs. But in point of fact there are counterfeits out there and there are many people who question the reality of miracles, healings today and they say well look, I'm the soul of the scripture, well I'm the soul of the scripture also. Which is why I embrace the gifts and power of the spirit.

It's why I hold to healing for today. I don't hold to divine healing today primarily based on what I've seen. I've seen some miracles and I know many others have seen many more miracles than I have of healing. But my primary reason for believing in divine healing for today, that we can pray for the sick with expectation of healing. And believe to see miracles taking place in our day is based on scripture, not experience, based on scripture. And what I found very interesting after I wrote Authentic Fires, I began to hear from people who said I have to admit I rejected the things of the spirit because of bad experiences.

Reading your book and that chapter in particular convinced me of what the word says, now I have to process what to do with that. Alright so here's what I tweeted. I tweeted this, please post here, I did this a week ago, why you are not continuationist or charismatic. I'll do my best to interact with your post in a coming line of fire broadcast.

The sooner you post the better, thanks. I did that on Twitter and then I did that on Facebook. So I'm just going to read through some of the responses as they came in and I understand that any of these people responding if they called in or if they had their own broadcast could articulate in much more depth. Right, they could say much more than what they're saying in a tweet. So I'm not claiming that they gave the best fullest argument they came, this is the primary thing that they tweet.

Right, that's what they're communicating. So Kyle said this, Charismatics often de-emphasize scripture and boast of visits to heaven, angel visitations, head jerking, twitching, physics of heaven, healing on command. Rarely hear of suffering on the cross, too many verses are taken out of context, rarely are spirits tested, need more balance.

On the one hand I agree with a lot of that, on the other hand I would absolutely say some of it is overstated. For example, I know a handful of people that speak of visits to heaven, but it's certainly not the norm. Remember I've been in this in Charismatic circles for the better part of 50 years, right, there was a season where I was not in Charismatic circles as much for a few years, right, for four or five years. Otherwise, 51 years in the Lord now going on that, I've been in Charismatic Pentecostal circles, all right. So I know a handful of people who speak of heavenly visitation or a regular basis, it is certainly not the norm in the circles in which I travel.

Angel visitations, I've never had an angelic visitation that I was aware of, that too is fairly rare, all right, fairly rare. Head jerking, they don't boast of head jerking or twitching, even the head jerking thing. I've seen that here and there. The one prominent example in the Brownsville Revival that Hank Hanegraaff, when we became friends, he said, I'm genuinely concerned about this woman's health, a woman named Valerie in the Brownsville Assembly of God. And she was in the choir and you just see her head shaking like that the whole time. And Hank said he talked to a doctor about it, he was genuinely concerned. He didn't think it was real, certainly didn't think it was God.

I mean, didn't think it was really from God, I should say, and was concerned. So I asked her about it. And she said that she was a believer, but was living in rebellion, I believe was living with a guy. And she got in a bad car accident, she was a school teacher teaching children with special needs, if I recall, or at least she was getting her master's degree to help teach children with special needs. And she got in a bad car accident and her neck froze as a result of it. So if she had to talk to you, if you were next to her, she had to turn her body because she couldn't turn her neck at all. And God was dealing with her to repent of her sin. The night that she repented, she was instantly healed. And as a sign, her neck began to move and moved like that for years when she was in services and felt the presence of God, pain free and injury free and trauma free.

So interestingly, it was a sign, whether you like it or not, that was her story. But people boast about head jerking, yeah, I've been in plenty of meetings where people are quote, twitching, but this is not, no one's boasting about that. Physics of Heaven, that's one book. I would dare say that if you talk to 100 million, did a representative sampling of 100 million Charismatics around the world, and asked how many are familiar with what's in the book Physics of Heaven, you'd find maybe one out of 100, maybe, if that many.

To me, that would be a very, very high number. Healing on command, yeah, we do believe that we pray in faith for healing, absolutely, because of scripture, because the explicit teaching of scripture to do that, in particular James the fifth chapter. Really hear of sufferings in the cross, too many verses taken out of context, really your spirits test it, need more balance.

I absolutely agree with these other concerns, Kyle. Absolutely, that often we don't have a good theology of suffering. We don't have a good theology of the cross and how that applies in our lives. I don't see scriptures de-emphasized. I see Charismatics in the word a lot, preaching, teaching, out of the word, but often with bad methodology, and often things are taken out of context.

Now of course, everybody does. Everybody has error that other groups can expose. But yes, more balance is needed. But that's not a reason to reject the things of the spirit, that's a reason to say let's deepen the Charismatic Pentecostal movement. That's why I wrote, for example, in 1991, Whatever Happened to the Power of God as the Charismatic Church, Slain and the Spirit are Down for the Count. That's where I wrote 2018, Playing with Holy Fire, A Wake-Up Call to the Pentecostal Charismatic Church. That's why some of the correction in the Authentic Fire book, that's why the prophetic standard statement that we put out a couple years ago, Bishop Joe Matera and I, and then with many other signers, putting that out.

Now it's probably over 900 signers around the world, many of them denominational leaders, movement leaders, church leaders. So absolutely, absolutely, yes, yes, yes, we need more discernment. Our horrible track record with the COVID prophecies, getting that wrong, and it's gonna dissipate by Passover 2020. And then the terrible failure with the Trump prophecies, so little discernment among so many in the body. Yes, I'm aware that major prophetic movements like Bill Hammond's and those with, Bill Hammond, those with Cindy Jacobs never prophesied Trump's re-election. I'm aware that Bill Hammond's guidelines would have argued against even making prophecies in that way. But the loudest voices that were heard, and many of them, were wrong, and millions of believers were deceived by them.

The worst deception I've seen in my life. So yes, yes, yes, more discernment is needed. More being based in the Word is needed. There are flaky things done in the name of the Spirit. Yes, I agree.

But that's why I just wanna see the movement deepen. God forbid we throw out what the Spirit is doing because of the errors of others. Is that what Paul did with the Corinthians? Did he throw out the things of the Spirit, or did he commend them for moving in the things of the Spirit? 1 Corinthians 1, 7th verse, did he commend them for those things? Verses 6 to 7 in that context there.

And then does he bring serious correction and say, now get it right. So that's what we need to do. Embrace, embrace what the Holy Spirit's doing. And get deeper in the Word. Get more grounded in the Word and Godly character. Learn from the errors. Don't let it just be the non-charismatic critics that come with the correction. Let it be the charismatic that come with the correction because we love the Word, and we love the Spirit, and we love Godly character. Alright, we'll be right back.

I'm interacting with posts on Twitter that I'm gonna go to Facebook and the next part of the broadcast. But here's what JD posted. I'm not completely sold on cessationism, but continuationism gives me pause. One, not convinced modern glossolalia, speaking in tongues, is biblical tongues.

Interpretation of tongues appears non-existent. Two, in the Bible, times of miracles seem to come in waves. Perhaps there will be an end time one. Well, JD, first let me suggest that the last hundred plus years has been a time of great outpouring of the Spirit. That around the world the Pentecostal Charismatic Movement has grown from literally a handful of people to well over 600 million. Some have put the number even higher.

And yeah, I know there's a mixture in that number in different ways. But just in terms of those who believe in the gifts and power of the Spirit for today and profess to be followers of Jesus. And that if you look at Randy Clark's book, Eyewitness to Miracles, or you look at Craig Keener's two-volume work on miracles, or the one-volume condensation just sharing miracle testimonies. You'll see that God's been doing amazing things around the world for many years now in ways that we did not see in previous generations. So I would say that there is something happening and even more is going to happen. In fact, excuse me, I personally believe that one reason for the housecleaning, one reason for divine judgment on charismatic excesses, one reason that these errors are being exposed is because God is wanting to pour out the Spirit in unprecedented measure. But the wineskins are not ready.

The vessels are not ready. We need to deepen our character. We need to deepen our walk with the Lord.

We need to deepen our discernment. And by the way, some of you are saying, well, if you believe in divine healing, how come you cough sometimes? Because I live in a body in this world and we're not going to see 100% perfect results in this world.

And maybe I need to take care of certain things better. But either way, let me ask you this. Doesn't the Word say that we died to sin and we should no longer live in it? Right? And there are verses, you know, I no longer live, but Christ lives in me and you died, your life is not hidden in Christ with God.

Do you ever struggle with sin still? Right? I mean, we're in this world.

These things happen. But as to your first point, not convinced modern gloss with all these biblical tongues, so how would you know? How would you know? In other words, Paul says to the Corinthians about speaking in tongues that no one understands you, that unless an interpreter is present, no one can understand. So it needs a supernatural gift, someone with a gift of interpretation, that you're speaking mysteries in the Spirit to God. So how would you test it? Right?

How would you test it? To me, the test is, Jesus said, if you ask your father for bread, he won't give you a stone. If you ask him for fish, he won't give you a snake. If you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more would the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?

Right? Luke 11. So, and I just quoted the last verse, Luke 11 13. So if that's the case, and I say, Father, I'm asking you to fill me with your Spirit so I can glorify Jesus, and that I can be more strengthened and edified so I can serve this dying world. And you begin to speak a language you've never spoken before, and as you speak, you're edified and built up. And it's not something that you're making up.

I mean, you're consciously not making it up. You can pick up a book and start reading it while speaking in tongues and realize, wow, this is coming from another part of my being. Wouldn't that be the best proof? Anything could be manufactured, but the same in Paul's day. People could have been, you know, doing scat singing, ba-da-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-da, but you know, and claiming it was tongues, right?

Anything, people can make a claim. So it's a fair question, but again, go back to what the Word says. And the Word clearly says these things are to continue until Jesus returns, and we see him face to face, and we should earnestly pursue them.

All right, let's see, Donald, that's a cute one. Well, I'm just gonna sit this one out since I first thought your tweet said constitutionalist, charismatic. Jules, why aren't you charismatic? Just for the same reason I will not criticize people who believe in Yeshua Jesus and worship on a Saturday or Sunday. It will not make for them more Christian than someone who does not, just like Paul was telling everyone you do not need to do the works of the law, no advantages. Okay, if I rather understand you, what about Paul earnestly desiring and telling us to earnestly desire the things of the Spirit, and talking about the importance of the Holy Spirit in his own ministry?

Why would he be emphasizing that if it isn't an advantage? In other words, if someone is operating the gifts of healing, and people are miraculously healed in Jesus' name as a result of which they realize he's risen from the dead, and hear the gospel and repent of their sins and are following the Lord, isn't that a good thing that God is doing that we should want for others? So one charismatic leader said the gifts are for others, so shouldn't we want it out of love to serve others? When I pray for God to manifest himself more powerfully, I mean, it's not so people say, Dr. Brown, you're amazing, wow.

No, it's quite the opposite. It's so they won't see me, they'll see God working through me to his glory. Edgar, though I become more open to the idea of the gifts still happening, I'm not yet convinced of the arguments of my continuationist brethren to apply in the 99.99% of cases in this part of the world. I'm more open in parts which lack of easy access to God's biblical revelation. Note when I say the gifts, I'm talking about the gifts that make it a controversy between continuationists and cessationists. Of course, I believe that God still gives us gifts of the Holy Spirit. Right, right, so clearly, the debate is not does God still save today?

Does God still transform today? Does the power of the Spirit work for sanctification? No one's disputing that among us as believers.

The dispute is is tongue still for today, or prophecy, or can we pray for the sick with expectation of healing? So I appreciate that, your openness, and I can't speak to what you're saying in terms of 99.99% of cases. So let's talk about in other parts of the world. Often, that's where you hear the greatest testimonies, where the gospel is being preached for the first time. I was reading, oh, some months back, a pastor in Nepal, which is a Hindu nation, saying that people would bring to the church those that couldn't be cured by the hospital.

And often, you know, you're in places where there's not the best health care either. And they would bring them to the church, and they'd pray over these people. And when they were healed, the whole family would become Christian.

They'd realize this is real, Jesus is alive. You see, we're just supposed to believe the Word. The Word tells us that Jesus heals today. The Word tells us to pray for the sick. The Word shows that as a pattern in the Book of Acts. And we're called to have that ongoing demonstration in the church, according to James Jacob, the fifth chapter, right?

So these things should be happening according to the Word. That's why I pray for the sick. If I was to write a theology of healing based on my experience, I would say, on rare occasions, God heals cancer. God heals people who are physically disabled, blind, unable to walk. On rare occasions, He does that. Many, many, many times, He removes pain. He heals more minor diseases. And lots of times, He doesn't respond to our prayers for healing. That would be my theology of healing based on experience.

Based on the Word, I set the standard much higher. But, Edgar, thanks for your honesty, and let's see here. Eric, the charismatic gifts, sign gifts in particular, are associated with the verification, authentication, and new revelation. In light of Hebrews 1, that was a past activity that passed away at the same time that the Jewish ion passed away. That is the destruction of the temple age. Okay, number one, the promises to Israel remain. The promises to Israel remain. The Jewish ion has not passed away.

God forbid. In fact, after God gives the new covenant in Jeremiah 31, verses 31 to 34, keep reading verses 35 to 37, where he emphatically says, no matter what happens, no matter what Israel does, as long as there's a sun and moon in the sky, as long as the earth is still here, my promises to Israel remain. To paraphrase what's there, it's laid out incredibly clearly. And Paul explicitly speaks of the future, national turning of the Jewish people, and says that although they may be enemies for the gospel's sake, now they're beloved because the fathers for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. That's what Paul says.