An Important New Book on Reaching Out to the Cults, then Dr. Brown Catches Up with the News and Your Questions

Would you like to know how to reach Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and others in the Colts will stay tuned for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by going 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown welcome welcome to the line of fire. Michael Brown and from Germany last night. All is well. By God's grace I am ready to roll and we are going to have a great discussion with Dr. Mark Spengler and his son Mark Stigler Junior their new book called shock the book, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't want you to read Josh McDowell says about this book called shock is a great apologetic resource to give you confidence and knowledge to answer many cults with truth and logic and in a moment tell you how you can get a copy of this book sent to you as our gift. If you have a question. You have a question you'd like to ask regarding Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons if you yourself are Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormon and you like to challenge the position of my guests. The phone lines will be open through this entire interview is number to call 866-34-TRUTH 8663 foray 87884. Now I know there's a lot going on in the news today of the Comey hearings, FBI, former FBI director James Comey. I have no idea if he's telling the truth or has been telling the truth. The president has been covered the truth.

I have no idea who's been telling the truth and end the leaks and what's real and what's not. So my prayers God bring the truth to light God bring the truth to light. That's my prayer in the second hour.

I will talk with you more about Islam and yes there are genuine peace loving Muslims that are sincere and devout, and there are genuine violence, loving Muslims who are sincere and about will talk about that in the second hour. But in this first hour and a focus on the Colts and reaching the cults with the message of Jesus to give you a little background to my guests and then we are going to dive into the discussion again. The new book called shock the book, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't want you to read. It was just a few months back I was ministering in California I was speaking at an in Israel conference with a number of key speakers from around the states and from Israel and some former Muslims as well powerful testimonies as well and I met a medical doctor their natural patches natural pathic medical Dr. Mark Spengler and he's written three books is very well known in the natural pathic medical profession.

Some best-selling books he's read, we begin to interact fan out that he and his son had a great love for apologetics is some more Junior student at Liberty University had a great love for reaching the cults a great love for getting the truth of the gospel out and would go on the streets and reach out interact with others and together they wrote this book called culture shock assembly.

A copy of it and out. I was thrilled with it of its comprehensive it's it's footnoted all the points are backed up, but it is clear it's understandable. It's useful.

It contains art techniques and hear the common attacks that you're going to get hit with and what about that the big subjects of controversy, the deity of Jesus the Trinity with the summary of Mormonism and Jehovah's Witness beliefs so it is a really great practical book and all this month. As you sow into our ministry with your generous gift of any size. Resetting this out as our special thank you gift come back. Spengler's Mark Senior and Mark Junior will join us.

This is going to be an eye-opening, edifying interest era. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks so much for joining us on the length fire ground fresh back from old 3 1/2 more delightful days of ministry in Italy and Germany almost week then back to Israel and Germany next week we should be broadcasting for those countries. As well, and been really looking forward to today's interview with Dr. Mark Stigler and Mark Stigler Junior so, for simplicity.

For simplicity, I will address them as Mark Senior and Mark Junior but it's great to have you on the air. Gentlemen, as we talk about your new book called shock Mark welcome. As you know what I just did Mark Junior I think I accidentally cut off your dad Mark Senior but will start with you Mark. Welcome to light a fire much with you, tell me how did you and your dad get this interest in reaching the cults reaching out to those Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, others right so when I was younger I would not Christian yet.

My dad often have cults over at her house and engage with them and you. She asked me to join in the conversation elderly interested that I wasn't born again yet I became born-again I would participate in street evangelism and of course I would run into the Jehovah's Witnesses with a stand on the street door Mormons on the bike and out engage with them and I would use some of my dad's expertise. When I was winking to them and we started witnessing to them together and we talk to them enough time that we can basically tell you verbatim what verses they would use to attack the divinity of Christ what their leaders have taught them in regards to the historical Christianity being corrupted and we are able to combat all that with biblical truth in history we thought hey the huge gap in the body of Christ. We talk to many Christians who cults before, but never actually engage with them so we want to help equip the body so they can spread the true gospel to these cults also help stop the subject's Mark Senior you're a successful, well-known Dr. author of 30 books you got a thriving medical profession, and yet you have this real burden to reach the cults as you some more Junior said brought them in to the home to speak in dialogue how is it that that you've developed such a passion for reaching these people with the gospel. Well� Kind of interesting time impressed by the group. The amount of effort they put in and evangelizing the article 3 have a genuine belief in what they believe. Have some admiration for the effort they put in. On the other hand, I see a lot of people join groups are how I call cultural Christian community have some knowledge of Christianity, but not much about a depth of biblical truth and these are the kinds of people end up often being.

These groups number to have spiritual desires, but without really knowing what they believe and why they believe it. They sometimes bent up in group like a Mormon third of equipment but so I had noticed the people have a lot of difficulty talking with people and defending their beliefs or to go to the next step in trying to evangelize him.

So what we what we try to do this book is first learn how to defend what you believe. Edward learned what you believe and why you believe it based on difficult truth based on history based on logic and to go to the next step which are Christians don't seem to do, and engage with people trying to show them the truth and let the Holy Spirit work through them hopefully bring them out of the works oriented in occult 50 will yeah more Junior we can easily say what's wrong with the cults and we might even look at beliefs of Mormonism and think how silly and Jehovah's Witnesses and they work so hard they have so little assurance. Yet, there must be some kind of appeal in these cults if they were so obviously wrong.

If the people were so obviously miserable, then why would one people join.

So what's your take.

Obviously each cult. Each group is different, but what have you seen as the major appeal of the cults that they use a Christ figure in order to at least pretend offer salvation. People find that intriguing any day that only their organization at the true organizations that make you feel comfortable or exclusive for the fact that they have a Jesus figure who offer salvation, but you're kind of a an offense part of a special group because during that minority that only knows the truth. I think that appeal to people yeah more senior anything you want to add to that. Yeah, I mean what I've noticed a few groups special with the Latter Day Saints or Mormon early alarm are born into the religion I have ever a lot of people are even Christianity.

So there's a big really kind of social group if you will look a lot Mormonism whether being of a large family work environment. There are tidy and very much socially and in humans you know we desire to have social connections that they both groups to a good job in helping people collect are valued and so there's there's the social aspect which I think a big aspect and with Mormonism farmer born into it are are necessarily exposed a lot to mainstream Christianity, but the Jehovah's Witnesses there's more of the militant aspect. They focus a lot on the end of the world are like on property and Armageddon. So there's some degree of beer, we find with Jehovah's Witnesses in terms of really focusing a lot on the end times and that seems to gather in a certain type of individual who may be not comfortable with the way the world if the government is an draws the people really focused on the end times, if you will, for the Jehovah's Witnesses isolate. Let's look this around every everything you say makes sense and is in harmony with with my interaction with cults. My understanding of cults over the years. Specifically, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons here. But let's flip this around it.

If if we were thriving in Jesus solid and the word walk in the spirit touching touching the lost around us. The last thing we think about is Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons is Mormons tempting us or pulling us away. There'd be virtually no believers leaving the faith and going the way of these errors.

What is it that that you sink is lacking today among many Christians that makes them more vulnerable to these cults, start with you more, Junior I think it's a lack of local understanding and you and I both know Dr. Brown that we don't study the Bible just again, had knowledge, and when debate but no God but it's important because only engagement is called Philco Christian thing Christian things like what you do know that John 316 says that Jesus is begotten to either created being right and Krishna never heard that before. To their caught off guard of the state of Ojeda to call the firstborn in Colossians 115. That means he created to. That's why you know the drill was when his organization is correct or the LBS similarity will actually attack the historicity of the Bible, though important lien of church history. The basic understanding of it and why we can trust the Bible because they'll say things like over the Bible been translated so many times you can't trust anymore.

That's why you need to use our holy books also beat the gospel of bin Laden been easier restored to that's why organization with our profit have come in proclaim God's truth so need to have an understanding of of Christian history, especially a doctrine that is the deity of Jesus the Trinity. Why how one is saved and also basic church history how the gospel is been preserved in the Bible is in been preserved throughout the agent yeah absolutely so there's there's a lot of biblical and theological illiteracy among believers today. Generations past kids would've grown up being code catechized the learned foundations of the face to be more biblical knowledge. When students were graduating from Harvard University. The first graduation in the mid-1600s each student of the nine grads delivered an address either in Greek or Hebrew or Latin.

So we've we've come quite a long way up from there. Mark seniors as you look years now as a believer in serving the body of Christ in America. Are there other other holes other areas aside from biblical literacy that provide open doors for the cults to come in and lure people away.

Yeah, I think you don't like that illiteracy of huge by experience of talking to the average Christian.

They do not have a good understanding of basic Christian doctrine, but I think the other big aspect.

I fear not get a lot of churches rather be large or small. Passion passion for evangelism it very concerning the amount to the advantage of the knuckles on even a large purchase. So for example, an owner in Southern California and I could go to 10, 20 churches that have 2000 more members and you find out how many people are actually involved in evangelism on a regular basis and often counted on to and so the passion for evangelism, for some reason the desire to help the lost its concerning. I mean, it's not just for Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons. We feared for you know people are a gift and things like that to run the streets along the know hang on other Christians were involved in evangelism and are just seems to be a problem with the passion for evangelism and in reaching the lost. The lost of course to be negative diagnostic endorsement of Mormon and many other people, so this has to have come from Neolithic to the Holy Spirit reading God's word. So friends think of it, because we have lost our burden to go out to the world reach the lost.

Instead, we are getting reached by others pulling us away from the gospel is true and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown hey friends, this is Michael Brown and I am here by phone with Dr. Mark Stigler and Mark Stigler Junior co-authors of the great new book culture shock. The book, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't want you to read.

You know sometimes there's a book and it's it's really enjoyable to read. But you wonder what is it accurate is the information correct, then other books are tremendously accurate and detailed but there there hard to use and then other books give you the information but that will give you the how to do in other books.

The how to without informational. This book gives you all the above culture shock and Dennis Desousa says of the book. This book shows were Christian apologetics hits the road. The authors deploy provocative and interesting arguments to engage those who come from alien, sometimes outlandish theological frameworks. The result is a readable educational book that is a valuable addition to every Christians apologetic toolkit and lots of other great endorsements including Josh McDowell's whose I've mentioned, Shirley Ray comfort as well endorses the book. It is about 250 pages.

It sells for $60.99 per friends, your gift to our ministry this month to help us with our Jewish outreach and our outreach to all people including the cults will send you this is our thank you gift. This applies only in the state so your website today asked her to Brent ask a DR Brown.org your gift of any size want to send this to is our thank you book Mark Senior let's start with Mormons kit. Can you give me an overview of Mormonism. In a nutshell, it's chapter 3 of your book Mormonism in a nutshell salutes to the radio nutshell version out here well began in the early 1800s, multiport courage, Joseph Smith, who found her up Mormonism.

The first profit major profit and he was given a positive vision by God that all Kristin drumroll Christianity was corrupt and so needed be restored and go course. You want to come up with the Latter Day Saints doctrine and there they believe that they have the restored gospel and so only through their organization by belong to the organization following her only books which include the Bible and three other books can one attain salvation and have different levels of salvation nor of Mormonism with different aspects of her Joseph Smith their purple polygamy. Polygamy used to be a large factor in early Latter Day Saints church and with offshoots of Mormonism.

Now it still is involved, especially in Utah and in the West and if you could talk to her mom and they basically will tell you know there's some truth to the Bible, but it's been corrupted and our organization. We have been given by God, profit and restored gospel only through the long term organization being involved in organization following our tenants certain things that happened like in her temple. I listening to their profits. They have restored profit system. The bottle-fed note that type of property is obsolete now. Steve came. That's the key. That's the key to salvation telephone a very unique doctrine of God. Most people are unaware their concept of God is completely different than the Bible's father. Jesus just to briefly tell you and Mormonism. Everything is always existed there never was a beginning to the universe.

Matters always been eternal, and so in their theology spirit beings are created in the heavens through sexual relations between heavenly father and heavenly mother, and that creates the spirit beings which then can be actualized on earth through sexual relations between earthly men and women in those beings when I come to earth are basically being challenged if they if you will out to live a holy life, and if they do that all the commandments of the Mormon church in their doctrine and covenants and so forth. They can achieve godhood so and Mormonism really the goal. The ultimate goal, which makes it different from Christianity. The ultimate goal is to achieve a state of godhood are pretty much anyone in Mormonism Mormon theology will make it to heaven. Very few people go to hell matter what they've done. George given a second chance.

But in Mormon theology really the ultimate goal is to achieve godhood rather be a male or female. Now the meltdown advantage because they can have numerous lives in the heavenly realm know they Were relations with and so forth.

But the ultimate goal is to achieve godhood wears a Christianity. The ultimate goal is to glorify God and to draw enjoy him for eternity and Mark Junior with this idea that you need the book of Mormon and the additional revelations of the Mormon church guesstimates biblically illiterate. They don't realize that there are fundamental contradictions between Mormonism and the Bible do you find your own outreach Mark that it's practical to reach out and go right on the attack and show why Mormons are wrong. How would you approach Mormon or from only comes to your door. How would you approach that will I think that whatever you're witnessing to someone of a different religion that you start with the common ground like Paulding. Next, 17, as to the common ground in this case is that we both believe in Jesus as Messiah and we need salvation we start with that, but then we look to what is salvation and who is Jesus. And so what I would say is hey you know what we both believe in Jesus, we we need him for salvation. But what concerns me that the tunnel Mormon, but what concerns me is that your organization yet The organization on them. I teach is or should that Jesus was an exalted man is really no different than you and me, except that he thinly also, the Bible says that there's only one true God but your organization has taught that there are an infinite amount of God and we can all become one. One day, so this concerns me and can I show you the verses which shows the truth so using that kind of mode because demigods taught both of us that you don't want to go on the attack right away because I closed people off the we show each week proclaim the truth in love, you never compromise the truth but we have to keep our conversation centered around Christ and the gospel and more to you. There are videos where you are out on the street talking to Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, folks can see your approach firsthand. Where would they go to watch these. They can go to our website. Please tell me the truth.org and I can click on the Mormon or Jehovah's Witness tab.

We actually have audio conversation I recorded with both Joe's when to the Mormon myself engaging with them and also a breakdown of what verses I used so they can be the same approach, and one more question before we come to break told you, sir, currently 19. Currently 19 so planning getting to 20 pretty since the reason I bring that up is this to say, hey friends, you don't have to be 50 years old with four seminary degrees and three Dr. Sears and articulate young man. I was the will discipled by his attempt articulate father but some of us and hate. Let's just go do it. Let's just go retrieve. Let's get grounded and let's go reach people you say yeah but how do I get grounded get the book culture shock. The book, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't want you to read to find out how you can get a copy sent to you as our gift go to my website. Asked Dr. Brown a SKDR Brown.org we come back let's let's have a brief theoretical discussion with all Mormon pickup with Dr. Mark Spengler and Mark Stigler Junior when we come back. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 66342 here again is Dr. Michael Brown welcome friends. The line of fire. This is Michael Brown with my special guest Dr. Mark Stigler and Mark Stingley Junior co-authors of the new book culture shock. The book, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't want you to read at the end of the chapter on Mormonism in a nutshell, I'm looking at two very practical charts on page 61 and 62. Here's the LDS view versus the Christian view on God the father, Jesus, Holy Spirit, man, Satan, and their other charts like this throughout the book and in summary points for dialogue with Latter Day Saints. Is there call Mormon so so let's let's do this.

I haven't rehearsed this in advance but but I'm sure my guests have no problem doing this, but let's let's have a theoretical discussion. Let's just take three or four minutes and Mark Junior you are the Mormon Mark Senior you are the Christian let's have a little dialogue here. Let's start with you more to you. You knock at Dr. Stingley's home you're Mormon you can interact. Go ahead already. Well hello sir, my name is Elder Mark from the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day St., and I would love to share with you the restored gospel of Jesus Christ today woke great Elder, I'd be happy to talk with you and God okay with you I'd like to ask questions that are talking. I find it most fruitful for you and I unable to ask questions lower conversing or okay Debbie Debbie fine so have you familiar with the person of Jesus. Oh absolutely yeah Christian my Bible believing Christians will absolutely okay right that that's great. Well, so we believe that Jesus and God the father. Initially, the pamphlet here actually appear to one of the greatest men who ever lived a Joseph Smith to reveal to him the true gospel which which were sharing with you today. All you know what, I appreciate that it actually been showing up for if I do ask your question.

I mean, one of the boys wondered about because the Bible is one of your holy books right you do use the Bible.

That's right between believers and right and you believe it's the word of God, correct yes yes okay yeah because in the Bible.

The Bible is very clear that no one has ever seen God the father at any time yet here we are not the Joseph Smith saw God the father and human body so it contradicts what the Bible vessel it for a moment how you reconcile that with about will be wonderfully book the God the father, can never be seen yet. Joseph Smith saw him well as you know the Bible document changed throughout the ages. I mean it's translated all the different languages and also in the New Testament. Paul predicted that Christendom would be corrupted.

Sensory come in our profit come into restore this gospel okay with Your mind of the few questions on that note is not studied the history of Christianity. When I look at scholars who have studied the Bible pretty much on the fame wavelength faith faith you take the Bible we have it today.

It 99.5%, give or take .1 or 2%, the fame of the original so that's really what sets him apart from any other holy book is unique in that way. Are there certain aspects of the Bible that you been all the fee that have been corrupted you have any specific way that you know about will know but you know the apostle Paul did say that there be a falling away and to be many false teachers so we've seen that that the gospel has no spondylitis like Paul said, and all Joseph did was was restored at four. That's what we would like to share with you today. If you like to look at our pamphlet with the Charlotte let's talk further. Now remember Paul talk about in the future, which is true that Tonya would befall teachers in the church and that they should be dealt with.

This is occurs in any organization or in any organization.

But you said that the gates of hell was never prevailed in church so I think Jesus words at face value. Yeah I friends say that success today hey dear hold conversations like this in the book culture shock. Be right back. I file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown my guess they thought Mark Spengler. You may have some of his medical books he has written 30 books and is well known in the natural pathic medical profession. His son Mark Junior, who is a student at Liberty University and together they written for me, the most practical book I've seen yet. On reaching Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. Chapter 8 has sample conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and many of these youth you tell the way the going to go because Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are well trained in specific ways they don't know the Bible as a whole. That will necessarily but they know what they teach wealth and if you have the right understanding of what they're coming with other words, if you know the pitch that's coming your way before it comes. Then you got a much better chance of hitting that pitch successfully and in the book is well there, or witnessing techniques for Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. There is a comprehensive chapter on apologetics for common cultic attack so it it lists for over 20 different comment attacks. And here's the best way to respond again. The book culture shock. The book, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't want you to read more Junior Mark Senior thanks for that little dialogue. There are just through that you knew and you could do it without an issue with.

Trust me, I'm a significant let's let's keep going for an hour here but let's let's cover a little more ground Jehovah's Witnesses more Junior give us the beliefs history whatever is relevant about Jehovah's Witnesses. In a nutshell, as you do in one chapter in the book right so similar to the LDS church or Mormon church organization or the watchtower started in the early 1800s with a man named Charles Taylor, Russell, and he really did not like the idea in eternal hell or the Trinity. So he formed a Bible study, which was anti-Trinitarian, which eventually became the watchtower Bible and tract Society and that's what you see today with those magazine the data watchtower for wake magazine on it and so this organization teaches that there is only one God and one in one person. The Unitarianism whose name is Jehovah. They're very adamant that that is God's true name. Of course we refute that the book, but also that visa is the first creation of God. In fact, he is Michael the Archangel incarnate eye which obviously is a huge problem because that definitely anti-biblical so in order to attain salvation in the organization. It is faith plus work.

There is a striking pattern within the cold. 20 deny that the true God atone for sin and resurrected the work for your salvation. I truly believe that you have to have a special knowledge of God and that comes through being part of their organization and doing good work as honesty to keep for them is showing that Jesus is not a created being and salvation is by faith through God's great aunt do you find that you need a different approach. A distinctly different approach for Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons was at the same general approach this with different specifics for each group will both groups deny the biblical Trinity gone three-person the Mormon Trinity is three separate God but also might add, the Jehovah's Witnesses have their own Bible translation called the New World translation Bible with a takeout verses which clearly show that Jesus is Almighty God, such as John 11 and so in the book we show the body how to use their own translation to show that Jesus is God and so the approach is molar but yet be very careful in defining the word because like I said if you are the Mormon do you believe the Trinity they'll say yes, but the Trinity is three different God or if you asked Jehovah's Witnesses do believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the yes but their Messiah is Michael the Archangel, no similar approaches, but very yet. Be very careful in picking work hard so let's let's swap things here.

Dr. Stigler, you are now a Jehovah's Witness and you aren't knocking on the door of this young man's college student Mark Junior have a little dialogue if you don't mind sure hello Mark come from the kingdom. Paul down the block here for. Jehovah's Witnesses were to start spreading the news about you over the kingdom I was becoming to the earth. You have any Christian background, like you, I'm actually a follower of Jesus myself.

Okay, okay, good. We talked a lot of Christians redefine another just not aware that Krista dumb is really apostate, that the church is really our teaching know what the early disciples believed and taught me to skip. Example, if you wouldn't mind, you know, we talked a lot of Christians and they're not aware that there there worshiping Jesus, which the Bible doesn't teach you. You love Jehovah's first creation.

Let me give you an example came to Carol Bible here doesn't. John 316 as logical quote for the first for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, Jesus was created in Christians have been misled thinking that he God and so were just concerned about people like you and want you to come to know the truth and Jehovah has been using organization to bring people to the truth so that they can have salvation. That's interesting and I appreciate your concern but I should buy concern for you, because I heard you say that the term begotten. I mean created and at that verse that Jesus is created to let him looking here at John chapter 3 and you I don't see anywhere that explicitly says Jehovah created Jesus actually could do a word study of the term begotten means unique one monogamy. So just showing that we become a Christian you enter into God's family at as sons and daughters of God. But Jesus is set apart as God's unique son to be the Savior of the world ever might add. We both believe that Jesus is the Messiah right. Oh, absolutely. I mean absolutely Scripture is very clear that the fire definitely the cheapest agreement that great don't care. Looking at Isaiah chapter 9 verse six if you want. Turn in your Bible to the pretty cool prophecy about the Messiah felt kinda eerie read all first of all you got your organization teaches that there is only one true God.

Is that correct all that is true. Yes, the Bible very clear on that. Okay perfect so Isaiah chapter 9 I'll be using the King James valve because I know that's what you your organization you viewed it as brought to us a child is born in unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall be called wonderful, wonderful, counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting father, the Prince of peace something here.

Isaiah prophesied that the Messiah to become which is Jesus. Of course would be the everlasting or eternal God. So when you're when you tell me that Jesus created. I have to disagree, agree with you on the basis of Scripture.

And I'm afraid that something at your organization at pocket. Well, I'm looking for and I picked her up Jesus from afar is referred to as mighty God, but he's not the Almighty God. We know we believe Jesus yes he is a mighty God. But he's not God Almighty mean that there's a difference there so get this straight.

The one true God is Jehovah getting the Almighty right filled will using your organization's logic then Jesus must be a false God, because whatever is not truthful if you studied not the Almighty God. I can do that.

I said the problem help we go go one chapter over to Isaiah chapter 10 to get your thoughts on this.

Isaiah chapter 10 verse 21 says the remnant shall return even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God that's referring to Jehovah. Now we have two mighty God that mean Jehovah is a false God. Now a mom of a moment of silence as the Jehovah's Witness is starting to get stumped. I'm sitting here smiling and listening to this conversation. Of course, I've had almost identical word for word conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses over the years.

If you just to continue the what was going on. That was a dialogue between Dr. Mark Stigler, who was role-playing as a Jehovah's Witness and his son Mark Stigler Junior but you have these conversations laid out with all the background with what adapts and the practical application in their new book culture shock.

The book, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't want you to read Mark senior have have you had success over the years actually leading people out of the Colts to the Lord, are getting into really stop and think you know we have now we know oftentimes what you'll find a lot of proof to meet with someone and you know what you're talking about an eight can answer your questions. Are you able to refute their they're basically commanded not to meet with you again affect or make a note of your health and let organization never come back.

Your help. There really looking the people who are well-versed in the Bible form and usually meet with you about two or three times, and again, if you can review what they're saying. And Shawn the truth.

Their plight about it. They probably will want to be with you more. Our goal is to not tell claim to build a converter people course, we know only the oyster can do that but we are ambassadors of Jesus Christ. Eight and we wanted to give people the truth like a stone in your shoe if you will get them thinking. In my experience talking to people commodities group. It takes numerous encounters with Bible believing Christian elders are all part of this law awesome friends. You and I are called to also be part reaching the call to come right toward your lips. Be ready. The new book culture shock for Mark Stigler Junior and Mark Stigler, senior plan and it's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. We have our has gone with my yes, Mark Stigler and Mark Stigler Junior the new book culture shock.

Again, if you've missed any part of the interview.

This is a great new book 250 pages sells for 1699. Dr. Josh McDowell says it is a great apologetic resource to give you confidence and knowledge to answer many calls with truth and logic.

We like the book so much that this month for your gift of any size to help us in our ministry were especially our Jewish outreach were sending you this book is our thank you gift, go to my website ask Dr. Brown ask ADR Brown to a.org to find out more when we switch gears for a moment and and gentlemen. What impresses me most about the book is the father-son relationship. The like heart and and how you have modeled this so well for others, so I want to talk father-son for moment because many of our listeners my age in the 60s. Many younger just raising families. My largest demographic is probably 25 to 34-year-old sold. This is very relevant.

Dr. Stigler, how is it that you have ported your son in such a way in the midst of a busy medical profession and busy life so so as to really have discipled nurtured him the things of God.

What would you say just not about called specifically but generally as a dad talking to other Christian dads would you say to them for me five years ago just for my own investigation, research, and by the parlor or spirit Bible was true. It was God's word and we could trust and to the degree I want to know details and parts that I went to seminary part-time for many years to know to get a degree.

To learn more adapt my number one reason for that was to number one protect and enrich my family to pass on the truth to my family the best I could, because for me the number one thing my number one responsibility with their eternal salvation, and so hopefully you know I've been an influence on Mark my family and and when I would when he was younger, much younger I would actually have a cult, door and have them come in a few months really don't engage with famine and hopefully it it showed know the passion of evangelism and have some effect on yet and what do you mentioned that ready to be getting being younger that even being a believer yet see the calls coming home seen the way your dad dealt with them. What has impacted you most about your dad's example.

Obviously, God's for the passion in your heart, your your your articulate and clearheaded and in our great example to the younger generation. What most impact you by your dad's example. I think that the unwillingness to compromise the truth because when you talk a bit called or anyone really that they believe in Jesus or their Christian I'd eat it if they all you know you're good you believe in Jesus or you say you do at least. But we really if you really love others and care for them were going to invest a little bit will who is Jesus you what you mean by you believe in him because as you know, there are many people in this world that they believe in Jesus by either Leist or Fleck combined with the born-again or they have the wrong Jesus. I think that unwillingness to compromise the truth of the Gospels really made an effect on me. Your university right now she's got lots of folks is like heart and like mind around you, but you also know plenty of other young people college-age that that are not grounded in the face of young Christians today that Seymour influenced by the spirit of the agent by the word of God. What would you say to them right. Well I would say that the fact that Jesus is truly written should mean that spirit is making powerful changes in doing a work in your life and I'm talking about.

See the fruit of the spirit that his spirit should be producing a loving joint.

He so that you can truly shine your light and others will glorify God because your good deeds because it's not enough to just that they I intellectually get that that Jesus is the son of God obvious. If Jesus really is God's son and change your life, then others should notice and more senior practical question for you of your your medical practice. How far in advance.

Are you sometimes but all are usually 2 to 3 months to three months out. Okay you you got a video broadcast as as well. You written 30 books so your you're in demand in in your field, what would you say that other believers other hard-working moms and dads set him just too busy to get involved in Christian ministry and evangelism.

I got a full life, soccer moms, busy dads, would you say well I think they need to do an evaluation of their priorities in life.

I made my people give lip service that God is the number one priority. That was true and learning the truth of God's word and sharing it preaching at others would be a priority, so there really is no excuse. A minute or some degree, people can be involved in evangelism.

Of course you know her.

Our Lord commanded the great commission.

So in one way or another doesn't. Happy to read about looking like we do.

But one way or another.

Every Christian should be involved in evangelism your other supporting those deeply involved in a corner other nations therein. Danger or you yourself are directly involved in, but one where the other untrue follower will be involved in in preaching God's word so others can be safe that the fabled lost it, it goes along with having the heart of God. We just got about a minute and 1/2 more GE recently did outreach with your dad you have braking you went to New York City to share the gospel on the street so what would you encounter. You see much spiritual hunger out there. We did that was. It was amazing to see God work and bring people to us and the icebreaker questions we asked were actually very powerful. If you share a couple Freon yeah yeah mine of wheat weed out people hate you have any spiritual belief and almost no one we talk to the New York City that know every pretty much everyone at some type of spiritual belief is very open-ended and be like a followed up with who is Jesus to you and man. The majority of people knew that Jesus was the son of God, or that he is God and that he came to die on the cross person resurrected, though the matter of getting to the point of showing them that a candidate head knowledge thing, but after Steve that in repentance and faith in him as Lord stop.

That's an encouragement to people because we talk to Hessian America only cultural or nominal Christians to know what Jesus did, but they've not received him as Lord yet and Dutch things would you agree that the harvest is ripe. You know what I was actually quite surprised of all that concerned look on her exceptionally good but we talk to people from all different types of religions, including a lot of people involved in Islam, and we had a very good reception and wearable to show him you know Jesus you know was God in human flesh, and he is the true Savior and Bible is God's only truth, and we are quite apprised how well we received and we talk to different called Mormon Jehovah's Witnesses like Mark that a lot of cultural Christians, we talking and in a certain amount of APF diagnostics and we were more well-received than we thought and we always at some point got to the gospel. He told about the importance repentance and faith in Jesus Christ and in the vast majority people were willing to listen and engage avoid very small percent of people who have no interest so we did plant some seeds and it's not as hard as people think they just have to, you know, strengthen their faith and then God will provide all this is as possible.

These gentlemen are great examples. Thanks for being all you will have to do this another time and thanks for your new book. God bless you, my friends, the new book called shock to get a copy go to my website ask Dr. Brown.org. The phone lines are wide open right now on the line of fire stage for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown Pampanga have a little fun.

Now I am this moment just on Twitter and Facebook just posting this.

My phone lines are open now 60 minutes call with any questions.

866-34-TRUTH 784 hey friends, this is Michael Brown freshly back from Germany and Italy a great trip.

There is Italy Friday afternoon and then spoke Friday night, three times Saturday twice on Sunday. Put some great meetings with some individuals privately, then flew over to Germany of furlough Monday afternoon, then spoke in Germany late afternoon Monday Monday night and then yesterday flew back so I had to prerecord some shows the last run I recorded from Germany that was before leaving the country there.

I hope you enjoyed the broadcasts.

I hope you were blessed by the content. I was blessed in preparing it for you but the phone lines are wide wide open.

That means you call me with any question under the sun on a bunch of things.

I'm eager to talk to you about.

Just had a great one hour conversation with Dr. Mark Stingley and his son Mark Junior on their new book called shock up but you call me with any question of any kind on any subject. What's so ever. As long as it's fit for Christian radio.

As long as I can be of help to you not to look at. I I want some sports and follow some sport so I could give you my evaluation of what's happening in the sports world, but that's not with the show is about.

And there are some subjects just in general that I might know something about that.

They're not relevant to this broadcast. So here are the parameters to be relevant to this broadcast line of fire and it's got to be fit for Christian radio. There are certain things you may be going through certain personal struggle. We just can't talk about in a public setting.

So if it's fit the Christian radio and it's of interest.

It relates somehow to the line of fire. We cover all whole lot of subjects here. The phone lines are open 866-34-TRUTH 784. I particularly invite you to call me if you differ with me on something or have a question about something and listen. I am not trying to set something up.

When I do this friends when I invite you to call if you have a difference if it's not like I'm a professional boxer and you're amateur and I'm inviting you in the ring with me or you real tough guy but you have a knife and I have a gun and said, okay, let's fight. Forgive these martial physical analogies and try to make a point is not that I'm silky, come on my turf were I control the mic and you don't know I'm saying I want to give you an opportunity within the parameters of our timeframe on radio and fairness to our listeners. I want to give you an opportunity to express a difference with me. Someone got my Facebook page of the day and said whatever this is, it's not asked Dr. Brown he avoids the question, I avoid the questions you you name of ministry you have a website and Facebook page and YouTube channel called asked Dr. Brown because you want to avoid questions you have a talk radio show are people can call in case you want to avoid questions you start most your classes with your students and any questions you want to ask when you're asked to do electronic college campus. You request a debate instead so that the other side can raise their points and if there's no more to debate you request. Open my Q&A after your lecture because you avoid quite no that's not me. Quite the opposite.

So I invite you to call so we can interact because I simply don't have the time to interact with everyone who differs with me online. I'd love to but but some of you can even interact with with everyone that in your circle in your circle is much smaller than mine, and I understand people's circles bigger than my follow, interact with them is probably not going to happen online so the phone line 0 we come back. I want to talk about Islam. Radical Islam and peaceloving Islamic yes there is such a thing as peaceloving as long the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the line of fire now by calling 866.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown have read my two latest articles one tolerance will not stop terrorism and the other that Canada is ready to raid your home and steal your children accurate no height, no sensationalism, accurate just telling the truth is to have a read these just go to my website.

Asked Dr. Brown, AES, Kd, or Brown.org before you leave the website if you don't get my informative weekly emails then please sign up before you go when you do will send you a real eye-opening e-book for free seven secrets of the real Messiah right if you got a question of any kind. Phone lines are wide open.

It can go from theology to politics to cultural issues to Israel. The translations of the Bible to challenge me on something I believe personally 866-34-TRUTH its 866-34-TRUTH 7884. Okay before I go to your calls. I am not an apologist for Islam. I don't think there any Muslims in the world who look at Michael Brown and think oh he's a defender of Islam. I am hated by many Muslims because I say that radical Islam violent Islam is a not the only but is a genuine expression of Islam.

I frequently have ugly one star reviews posted on my*Brown Facebook page or comments posted on YouTube from Muslims who are furious with me and saying I'm misrepresenting their faith okay I the I know that I'm hated by some radical Muslims. I know this for fact so I I am not a defender of Islam, and I believe that the greatest false prophet of all time was Mohammed most influential and greatest false prophet of all time and the most influential false religious book with its most certainly be the Koran, so I I am anything but a defender of Islam and and and I'm aware of the doctrine of Kia by which a Muslim could lie about something for an alleged higher religious purpose. By the way Muslim might say won't don't Christian Bible smugglers do the same thing. They lie about what they're doing in order to get Bibles M&A may come back with that I'm aware of the principle of abrogation by which the earlier peace loving, tolerant verses in the Koran or abrogated by the later violent militaristic versus am aware that a study class carpet for three years of study, side-by-side with devout Muslims reading in Arabic together. I'm anything but ignorance of these things. And yet, without question, there are peaceloving devout Muslims. They are not denouncing violent Islam for political purposes.

They are not denouncing violence Islam to be deceptive there denouncing violence Islam because they are devout Muslims and to them. This is a perversion of their faith and they can point to Mohammed and the Koran and their history and say that they are peaceloving, tolerant religion is. That's crazy. Look at the violence. Mohammed himself was far look at the violent verses like a divine history. I'm quite aware of that and I would say that violence Islam is also a genuine expression of Islam. However, I know for sure that there are peaceloving devout Muslims and they know their faith better than 99% of us know their faith and they would say that what these violent jihadists are doing is a perversion of their faith and these are both historic expressions of Islam and it bothers me when people started being duped, don't be stupid not to have friends I probably studied this issue more than most of those who attacked me for being stupid and silly study in the original languages is important. You really can't feel the Koran as you can read it inherent in Arabic but understand that on some level, particularly feel it feel its power. As you can read it and even. Chanted, and I certainly have experience interacting with those in the Muslim world and and can interact intelligently with Islamic literature and things like that so I probably study since in more depth than those who tell me that the only real a Muslim is a murderous Muslim. It bothers me though when we challenge the Muslim world. Well, if you're really peaceloving then denounce the terrorist attacks and they do this we completed this line that Timmy is insincere that to me is problematic so that limit.

Let me give you an example, I posted an article last night on my Facebook page. Imams refuse to give Islamic burials for London attackers."

Unprecedented move, and this article.

It was the Yahoo news William Watkinson for International business Times ever really seen one gentleman online him on tough PD who is very controversial in the Muslim world saying this is just another act of deception. I'm aware of that. However, I have no question that there are many sincere devout Muslims if you got to know them you'd find them to be very likable people you'd find them to be probably more devout in their lives 24 seven than most Christians, you know you'd find them to be appalled by these acts of violence and if you knew them for years. You find them to be genuine. All right, and defined them to have all their sources there. Quoting from an Islamic literature and beauty in Arabic, so here more than 130 British imams have refused to give Islamic burials to the London attackers because they believe their and their actions are incompatible with Islam.

Islamic burials ritual provided to every Muslim, regardless of their actions in life, but the group is refused to conduct such ceremonies for their three mats for the three men who killed seven introductions by London Bridge and Borough market on Saturday, 4 June statement posted to Facebook that also named the imams, they said, quote, we will not perform the traditional Islamic funeral prayer for the perpetrators and we also urge fellow imams and religious authorities to withdraw such a privilege and and I been seeing comments in response on Facebook there lying. How could you be deceived, you're being duped you to have the guts to tell the truth like you kidding we post about radical Islam. Constantly we post the sources radical Islam for the Koran I guess and I'm hated by radical Muslims and I'm hated by other Muslims who tell me I'm misrepresenting their faith and not stop for a minute, why are so many Muslims upset with me for allegedly misrepresenting their faith by saying that violence Islam is a valid expression of Islam. If they themselves are all violence loving exhibit. I don't get it. Islam's rebound through its history. Yes, it has been. Here's another perspective for you.

Are you ready you're ready and really the phones momentarily. So hang on will get your call shortly to give you another perspective.

All right, when America was seeking to overthrow British rule right we were planted by the great and Great Britain were planted by England, and then we are going to fight against them with a lot of the fight come from from the pulpits.

There was even a saying that rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God and we engaged in a violent war with the British for our independence and we felt it was right in Christians largely participated in it and and some even led the way from the pulpit to the point of the recall. The black robed Regiment.

All right, so let's say let's have another scenario now okay let's say that there is a particular Islamic country that is fomenting terrorism and is it is exporting terror around the world. All right.

And they are killing Americans around the world and even launching assaults in America and we decide to go to war against them. There are many Christians in the military who believe that God is with them and that God is using them to fight against these terrorists leverage this is a just war. This is a just cause will Muslims many muzzles would feel the same way and they say no to what these terrorists are doing is not Islam at all.

That's a misapplication of the war versus the war versus would be if you are in a just war and you are now fighting for your country and for your faith that you believe that Allah is with you and if you die in the course of battle dislike from say a Jewish Israeli perspective. If you die fighting against Islamic terrorism you're dying for God's cause for the protection of the people of Israel that say you that's how we look at but a suicide bomber attacking men, women and children someone slicing the throats of of of people in restaurants and in killing polices and though that's that's not Islam it's a perversion of Islam blowing up people at a concert that's a perversion of the faith they sadden I believe it statement continued from the imams though at no time is it acceptable that such ruthless violence was perpetrated during the season of Ramadan in which Muslims worldwide focus of positive motion for a charity and cultivation of the character demonstrates how utterly misguided and distant. The terrorists are from our faith in the contempt which they hold for its value. I believe many sincere Muslims hold to peaceloving Muslims and their volatiles. Truth is the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown phone lines are jam announcement for you got a brand-new video is transformative for a man to want a real woman who have, but this one is the Bible infallible to my newest videos we can watch them go to Esther Gibran ask ADR Brown.org*Brown.org and just click on the digital library can also read my most recent articles as well there.

All I opening the videos and the articles, watch them, read them, share them with others and together let's lead the way in this gospel based moral and cultural revolution, 86634 was start in the morning not know we don't start Des Moines, Iowa. I guess Justin had to go out will start with Esther bond in upstate New York. Thank you sir for: the line of fire by doing well thank you. Okay, that could figure out my questionnaire converted And now I'm about to get baptized but I was already baptized as a child that now as far as I understand Esther bond know that doesn't quote count and you should be baptized now as an adult, but let me explain why this is very positive and not negative. Okay the baptism in Scripture is always a response to the faith the words its repent and be baptized the leave and be baptized, even when you have an example of a whole family being baptized like acts 16 it says that Paul preach the gospel to the whole families to the whole family so they all heard the message and they all responded at some point this got changed as a as a spiritual religious right where a child would be baptized so the just like a child is circumcised. A male child is circumcised in Judaism so say in Catholicism and other expressions of Christianity, then a baby would be baptized as being dedicated to God, but you want a believer than it was.

Not a response to faith.

Baptism did not symbolize the washing away of your sins because you weren't even conscious of sin. So everything that baptism was supposed to do, did not apply in that sense and therefore now as a believer. This is a a great thing that you get to do and it's also a public profession of your faith. You could not make a public profession as a baby and there plenty of babies who were baptized that never follow Jesus never believing God and therefore not right with God's baptism is not magic. The water is not magic, so by all means. This is something that you should do, but it's good to get an understanding of the purpose of baptism. Once you have an understanding of the purpose of baptism. Use it if course, I should be because being baptized as a child has has no relevance as a baby is the relevance again. It was not in response to your faith. It was not a conscious outward sign of the washing away of sin when even conscious of sin is not a public testimony, and it even says in Romans six that were baptized. It now means it symbolizes that we died with Jesus Eagle under the water. As the old Esther bond symbolically cure your radio believer now, but you go under the what is the old Esther bond and you come out of the water as the new Esther bond dead to sin and alive to God's will look at it as something positive that you get to do rather than another religious tradition that makes your earlier religious tradition null and void. That makes sense. Good at and it let me also tell you that when you are in other cultures and other countries. Baptism can take on tremendous importance.

For example, there are folks that we baptized in India and my friend Jesu partners were about to do the baptism they tell me this woman comes from a devout Hindu family and she's going to suffer a lot of persecution outages being baptized� That's the moment when when someone says they believe, and so on. Okay, the family gets upset that when they are baptized. That's the statement that's when something is being declared them loud and clear so let it be something of spiritual significance to you and the day of your baptism will be a day you remember the rest your life. You open that big. Something about a real heart yet goodwill you should pay it.

Let me just say this not only is it something it's good to do it's really command. It's a command that once we believe we should be baptized. So just make sure you understand the purpose. I think you do clearly enough in your response to me is so churchy I want to be baptized.

When can I do it at this it will be like you to go through this class to make sure you understand the basics of faith great. Whatever their procedure is, but the sooner the better.

And by the way, doesn't mean you're not saved today doesn't mean you not love by God at this and your sins are forgiven, but it means this is something very important in your walk with God and spiritual life. God bless you sir, thank you for the call of 866-34-TRUTH 87884.

Tell you what Richard, Ernest, Eric, stay right there.

I don't want to rush you. If I take your question now that I'll have a very short time to answer some stay right there as soon as we come back on the other side of the break. I want to get to your calls immediately. Hate friends.

The first hour we had a really informative injury in fact a lot of fun. I have my guest to role-playing Dr. Mark Spengler, his son Mark Singer Junior and I under role-play where one was a Jehovah's Witness and it was a believer or woman is a Mormon and the other was a believer and they went back and forth so they got this great new book out called culture shock the Jehovah's Witnesses norms don't want you to read Josh McDowell do I get an apologetics endorsement is the better person. Josh McDowell right.

Culture shock is a great apologetic resource to give you confidence and knowledge to answer many cults with truth and logic and it's it sells for 1699 which is great price.

It's about 250 pages long, super informative but super practical.

Amazingly practical, informative, and we want to sew it back into you when when they sent me a copy of the book. I liked it so much I should let let's let's do this as as you someone to our ministry, friends, and I'm really focusing a lot of time energy and attention on some major Jewish outreach projects both in writing and in particular on video to go all over Israel.

I mean some major projects as you someone to our work and help me.

I'm on the front lines of this by God's grace help me reach the lost sheep of the house of Israel that I want to send you this. This applies where it were able to do this within states. Okay to send you is my thank you gift this 250 page book called Troxel how you do it you just go to my website Esther to Brown.org ASKDR Brown dog Ward just go there and you'll see right on the homepage. Your gift of any size I want to send you this is a thank you just pray Jewish which are able to do, and many standing together really enable us to make a difference and and I'm looking at a question. In fact, Ernest start with your question we come back about is the Jewish revival anywhere around the world give you report that update that fact doubling next week I should be broadcasting from Israel just got home from Italy and Germany got home last night Tuesday night and Monday night a leave for Israel for couple days in Germany can for a couple days and hopefully broadcasting from both of those countries as well. We will be right. I can't wait to get your calls set.

It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 66342 here again is Dr. Michael Brown how how does this have happened looking to headline on the house. Watch dog Ward 3rd London Jihad murderer told time please.

I'm going to be a terrorist and had no trouble entering the UK how does that happen. I address this issue in my latest article that tolerance will not stop terrorism. You can read it@askeddr.brown.org also read a real shocking article about a new law that was passed in Ontario and province of Ontario in Canada that lets you got a boy who believes a girl eight years old and use apparent say sorry son you're confused when I can accommodate that.

But I can let you wear dresses or call you Sally instead of Sam.

That child could be taken away from parents and raised in a different environment.

No I'm not kidding you.

Those my latest articles you can read them and asked her to Brown.org I'm freshly back from Italy and Germany and the phone lines are wide open with any question of any kind whatsoever that you want to ask me. So let's start in Syracuse New York with Ernest welcome Sir to the line of fire call.

I was curious if you're aware of our Jewish revival happening anywhere in the world. Yes, a small yes and a large no by a small, yes, I mean without a doubt, there are places in instances where God is really working in Jewish people are coming to faith in unprecedented numbers, the large no is that by and large around the Jewish world there was still either great resistance to ID the idea of Jesus being the Messiah or great indifference to the idea of Jesus being the Messiah. So let me give you the negative them back to the positive. I've been sharing the gospel with my fellow Jews for over 45 years now since soon as I was born again and generally speaking the same obstacles have to be overcome. The same resistance exists. The more religious and educated Jewish person, the less interested they would be in Jesus and the rabbis have known for decades and attracted some of them for decades or consistently for years and they still don't believe in Jesus the Messiah" option. Evan turned turned my view that he is the Messiah and along with that there was a great outpouring looks golden Jesus people move in late 60s early 70s where many Jews around the world who were in a spiritual search came to faith in Jesus, the Messiah, me being one of them. We haven't seen that happen the same way on a wide scale on the flipside, Sir.

Some of my friends involved in Jewish evangelism or seeing large numbers of Jews come to faith larger than they've ever seen Phil doing outreach in Israel, though doing outreach in Canada were in Florida though get a crowd of over thousand Jewish people coming in and have the vast majority respond to the gospel.

None of us have ever seen anything like this and more and more because information is more available were hearing from religious Jews who are secret believers or who are secret seekers so think of this is a picture Sir there are more and more showers of rain coming down.

There are some pockets of thunderstorms, but we are waiting for the thunderstorms to be coming down all over. Also the positive side within the nation of Israel if you went back 6070 years. You literally find a handful just a handful of Israelis who were believers in Jesus the Messiah. Now you've got all 15 to 20,000 messianic Jews, including maybe a thousand or more nativeborn Israelis. That's wonderful but that's still a tiny fraction of what we believe will happen, it will come to thank you sir for the question. That's my evaluation and I'm so excited with the open doors we have now in Jewish ministry come back to that before the broadcast is over will be right back. Thank you for the colors. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown to the line of fire. Michael seven the number to call open the phone lines for any question under the sun. The want to ask me and I want to get to as many as I can let us go to Austin Eric, welcome to the line of fire. Hi Dr. Brown I think you have me on my question is about your your view on Islam. It sounds like you have a similar condition. Dr. James White and that the sources corresponds to be contradictory. Some people filing so that a Muslim could be vacantly coffee found on the tradition at their peaceful or violent. They can all do either one. Valid sort of way. About accurate and extolled by witnesses not challenge you anything, but just violent. I was curious if you would ever invite someone like they liked it. Water Jim Simone on pecan to give an alternative view to that that that view of Islam was at the something that you yes yes since yes your accurate in the way you represented it.

Yes, Dr. white and I hold to that simile. By the way, I only sign on the house that similarly, when I interviewed him about it because with all of our discussions we had never discussed that that aspect in detail and I was actually just thinking of the devil about David would specific you and I'm in touch with Sam as well.

Some, but I just am a David that I got have on the air and I just posted one of his articles about Mohammed on my Facebook page, so you absolutely, and I was just interacting with another well-known apologist who reaches out to Muslims and he said to me, and he's much more of a scholar of Islam than I am in the same with David with much more familiar with Islam than I am, in terms of just devoting years to the to the sources and and having more interaction that he said yet is no question the Sutter apologist. He said there's no question that there are many, many peaceloving Muslims in the two point back to their traditions, but he feels essentially that those traditions contradict their views so just speaking today right them will go back in time but just speaking today. Eric I believe that a Muslim can be a peaceloving, sincere, devout genuine Muslim effect. This could be my next article. Yes, there are sincere devout peaceloving Muslims. They can look at the Koran they can look at the example of Mohammed. They can look at their history and they can say we are peaceloving, our religion is a religion of peace. We don't like war anymore than anybody else. We repudiate the actions of the suicide bombers and terrorists and they can be absolutely true to their faith is instant. Outlying there not she is just trying to pull the wool over your eyes and they want to spread Islam around the world the way we want to spread the gospel around the world. At the same time I believe that radical Muslims and the Osama bin Laden's of this world can point to the Koran can point to the example Mohammed could point Islamic history and say that they have the just cause infighting against unbelievers wherever they find them and that would include slaughtering men, women and children on the streets of London just as it would include fighting other Muslims in Algeria that they considered to be apostates so the question is which is the original and real Islam. In my view both are valid expressions of Islam, although without a doubt Islam goes the way of violence very easily and has a history of violence as opposed to the gospel, the teaching of Jesus the New Testament we go to very different direction. So, may be if I David would on he could make a very strong case that Islam and I have noticed other scholars on Christian scholars who hold to this view, that real, genuine, authentic Islam is violent. I and so they could make a good case for and I would not necessarily argue that I would simply say that for Muslims for hundreds and hundreds of years, including today, you can be peaceloving, you can be tolerant of other religions and and you can say that you deplore what Muslim terrorist, during, and even those it would be a bit more militant would still say okay to fight in the war for all law is one thing to go and attack innocent people or to blow yourself up at a concert is not as long so they would reject that as well so he I know we could interact on this further.

But does that answer your question adequately. I think you great, great, and so this is a discussion that will continue and look for some of these folks particular David, I just almost last night I just got back from Germany little tae bo skin and email them last night say hey buddy, how is it I've never had Joma show let's let's do it right. Thank you sir, 86634 choose, let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina Dena, welcome to the line of fire paintball. I wanted you to know that I RFA church properly.

A black thank you.

I'm so glad you made and their wonderful thing that got air that I have a customer that I cleaned house for I'm the very next morning after listening to you brought up about her gay daughter.

He recently got married and how she and her husband have been looking for a church that that she heard a lot of anime for the way she feels that Gaither treated or talked about in church and we had a very good session with how one thing you said that like me to reach out and resist God enabled me to tell her all their your daughter action are contrary to the word of God. Everyone deserves love and respect, and she accepted that discussion. I am so glad to hear that is great, great to hear this, a Raleigh first assembly great church in Raleigh invited me up and asked what I talk about the church and homosexuality.

And we we invited our listeners in Raleigh, North Carolina come out so wonderful.

Reach out to the with compassion resist the agenda with courage. She got the message Pastor Don I am so pleased to hear that. Thank you for sharing.

I am praying that might hurt a preparatory people analog with it. I'll be reaching out part in light which is part of that accident and had on my mind for years and years and something that you might shed some light on it when when Jesus was reviewed by Peter Peter that you now are back from you to go to the cross and I and keep it. You can praying that they behind me Satan offered us a rest, not the things of God appeared like when trying to prevent him from being crucified. Yeah, clearly at the crucifixion, it would seem like yes I don't remember you Dena. I don't remember anyone ever asked me this question and it's a fabulous questions okay number number one certainly to the extent Satan understood God's purpose through Jesus. He would want to forth that that's that's clear and it says this in first Corinthians chapter 2 that none of the rulers of this age knew God's hidden wisdom, if they had known that they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

In that sense we know that Satan was complicit in the crucifixion of Jesus, and fact that she's the one that interest Judas Iscariot. It's a Satan entered him to betray Jesus. So Satan is certainly complicit in the Messiah's death on the cross either blinded to God's purposes or just so consumed with murderous lust that he had to take this opportunity to kill Jesus because he was he was spiritually blind you.

You may have understood God's purpose. He was still blind to it and almost like a man that commits adultery know is going to lose everything but but he can't restrain his loss that could be part of what's happening but I look at that, the statement that you just quoted, which we have in Matthew 16 Mark eight and Luke nine where Peter says, far be it from you, Jesus, to go to the cross and Jesus rebukes them, and as a Satan speaking through him. I look at that is more the satanic mindset and worldview, which is that going to the cross is the wrong thing for the Messiah to do is the Messiah supposed be the king is going to rule and reign. In other words, the human way of how you take over the world. The human way of how you dominant remember Satan's temptation to Jesus in the garden in Matthew four and Luke four that if you bow down to me.

I'll give you the kingdoms of this world, so anything to bypass the cross and I would say there are two different ways of looking at it.

One is.

That's the first strategy on going to set you up to bow down to me and do it my way. The way of human strength in human wisdom and and I will be your ruler and and you will be the world ruler, but I'll be over you and that failing then Satan is complicit in the crucifixion of Jesus or Satan always wanted to kill Jesus. From the moment he was born and this was just the satanic worldly mindset that wants to bypass the cross that Jesus was reviewed. Thank you though for the question. I'm almost sure I've never been asked before her plan and the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown ghost back Michael Brown here with you on the line of fire.

It's go to Thomas in Florida. Welcome certain line of fire. Yes, go ahead.

I was on Thursday and getting into the music between break. I was wondering they were used to.

I'm in elevation and the proper name. How can he tell looking at the Eucharist and included the name and wanted an abstract idea. It's is to two different words pronounced differently and spelled differently, but if you did know Hebrew, you would know that is so salvation is the issue and it has a final H okay issue with a final H the way spelled in zebra hay and Hebrew in the name Jesus in Hebrew is Yeshua, and it has a final IN so they are spelled differently issue with a final IN an issue with the final hay in the pronunciation is slightly different they are from the same root, namely salvation but one of them also incorporates the divine name Yahweh, which is then it in the name Yehoshua Joshua found there and shortened form and then that name get shortened to Yeshua, which should be like Mike and Michael so Yeshua is a short form of Yehoshua Joshua both related to the same root for salvation ripping you Shaw but are two different words to different words pronounced differently and spelled differently you Shaw salvation and you Shaw Jesus. So that's how you tell the difference. The spelled differently and there pronounced differently, but you are very welcome. 866-34-TRUTH let's go to Steve and Torrington, Connecticut. Welcome to the line of fire.

Dr. Brown hey look, the next time you're in Connecticut you gotta thought on Instagram or twitter stops I can get my friend my Jewish friends together in the hey you can always check my itinerary on the website asked Dr. Brown.org it's always listed the go ahead, here's my question in the garden, Jesus prayed and said that let this cup pass from me and I fascinated by that.

I know that Jesus knew the will of God for the Messiah knew his father's wealth of the Messiah will you know for his life that the Messiah would be cut often and bear them into the world and he was an extremity and humbly asking black.

He was asking God to change his will when he knew already that it was in the written word right, and I'm not saying you did something wrong. I'm just saying how how can that be how how can I say right. How can Jesus say he knew from the foundation of the world that he was can be crucified son of God do that. The synagogue came into the world for the express purpose of dying on the cross for our sins and he knew that always.

That was his destiny.

That's where he was going.

He lived to do his father's will.

How could he then, in the garden of Gethsemane scissor anyway. To avoid this and interesting. I was just having interaction with your brother very literate brother about this very subject and he raised the same question I I would say there are two possible answers.

One answer is that were misunderstanding the text that he wasn't praying when he said it let this cup pass from me there was some other cup. Some claim that it was that the cup of dying before you even get to the cross. I don't see scriptural evidence for that. That was some other cup and he was saying if possible let this cup pass from me. The other interpretation who have always read it is that he is fully God fully man that he knew what faced him in the physical crucifixion was terrific, but it was the spiritual burden he was about to take on that was so overwhelming dying for our sins and carrying that on his shoulders and that he has a human being just said okay I know what's ahead and I'm here to obey. Is there any any other way to get this done and the answer was to be no which is God's way of showing us that there's no other way and that if there was another way to save the world, which is also an indication that there is no salvation outside of thesis if there was another way to save the world could have been done but there wasn't. That's my understanding that many find that unacceptable and I understand that the arguments and say there must be another thing he was praying about which case, keep studying and see what you come up with a thank you for the question Steve. Speaking of speaking Jewish friends I I am really stoked. Very soon we are going to begin recording videos, TV programs exclusively specifically for outreach as we did have Hebrew captions.

I would be looking at footage of interviews with Israelis from secular Orthodox to be interacting with those interviews and then talking straight to his race in English but with Hebrew captions about Jesus the Messiah about the state of their soul and they can be broadcast in every home with cable TV in Israel, the largest potential audience we've ever had.

And of course will be put on intranet as well which we praying for that project and if you want to stand with us today go to my website. Asked Dr. Brown.org in your gift of any size I want to send you a really great practical 250 page book called culture shock. The book, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't want you to read.

It is my gift to you for your gift to help us in Jewish outreach. Good asked Dr. Brown.org help us today all right.

Got a couple minutes left a Charles in Reynoldsburg, Ohio times will shortly.

Please dive right in front. I swear that I'm not really individual to go to Europe and heretic writing like that put our ministry is beginning to use the lot.

I even like their children information and even correct me if I'm wrong but I thought maybe on a recent show he may have said that you don't agree with everything thing that they keep my sharing of what specifically if that's the case that you may not agree with what you listen.

I appreciate your spirit and the reason for the call. If you haven't listened to my interview with Bill Johnson then just go to the website asked Dr. Brown.org and click on the digital library and just type in Johnson and you'll be able to listen to my interview with Bill Johnson on the 45 minutes long and are a raise questions that others have raised for me about the ministry and bear in mind that there are plenty of good ministries right don't agree with everything and there are ministries that are completely off that I reject is knocking from God. So I I respect Bill Johnson.

I believe he and his ministry doing a lot of good to have some areas of difference. So those areas be one would be the feeling sometimes that there could be a contrast between the God of the Old Testament, the God of the New Testament would be one of the will bill Johnson's lover. The Old Testament made it clear on the broadcast. But sometimes you could get that impression of I would say that there is a blind spot regarding the role and purpose of Israel, which is major and that some might take his teachings have a kingdom now. Emphasis is if the church facilitate oversight do not believe he believes I tell you what I got picked this up more maybe on Fridays broadcast because were at a time here. Be blessed