Lessons from a Homeschooling Mom on the Mission Field

The following program is recorded content created by Truth Network.

If you have a question about homeschooling, about training your children, about dealing with high schoolers, 866-34-Truth, 866-34-87-884. Before I bring Casey Miller on, I just want to remind you this is the last day we're going to do this on the air this week, but we have a special resource offer just available through the line of fire by calling. We haven't announced this on internet, we haven't sent out an e-blast.

This is something we're just doing where you can call in and take advantage of a special offer. My brand new book, The Political Seduction of the Church, which apparently is really hitting home, did a big live stream with thousands watching live last night and the gentleman hosting it said, you articulated what I have been thinking and feeling and I was concerned. I felt at times like I was the only one. That's what people are saying reading this book. It's that eye opening. The Political Seduction of the Church, together with my book, How Saved Are We? You'll read this book, it'll be one of those OMG things like, oh, that's the gospel. Oh, that's what we're missing.

That's why things are so far off. And when you realize it was written in 1990, the OMG gets even bigger. That book and my message, Holy Desperation, one of the most important messages I preached in my life, preached during the Brownsville Revival, Hunger, Thirst for God and Revival. That audio message, over $40 of resources for just $25. But you have to call to take advantage of this. So whenever you're hearing this, give us a call. 704-498-4673. If our phone lines are busy, someone will get right back to you.

704-498-4673. One of the great joys in my life is to watch those who have been in our ministry school, trained over the years, go out on the field, whatever field it is that God's called them to and bear much fruit for the gospel. It becomes an exceptional joy when I see the children of those people sent out and that we have served together with over the years. See, their children grow up and have godly hearts, passion for the Lord, solid grounding, and you know that the families are doing something right. Casey Miller, married to Eric Miller, who graduated from our ministry school in Pensacola, that family has been serving in the missionary field, the missions field in the Philippines for many, many years. And one of the things is when you meet the kids at every stage now, they're now in college and younger. When you meet the kids, you see these kids are grounded, these kids are solid, these kids are in love with the Lord, these kids are thinking kids, and Eric will always say that's because of Casey. That's because my wife, well she's written a book now, Casey Miller, C-A-S-E-Y, Homeschooling Through High School for Success from the Perspective of a Missionary Family. Let me tell you the title again. Homeschooling Through High School for Success from the Perspective of a Missionary Family.

You can get it on Amazon in e-form or hardcover or paperback. So we're going to talk about this book and about this family. Casey, welcome to The Line of Fire. Thanks for joining us today.

It's so good to be with you. Alright, now you are in a van with your family, right? You're going to be flying to Italy and then from there to the Philippines, is that right? Actually, we're going to Italy and then back again for the conference in October, the Fire International Conference, because that's where Sierra will be commissioned as a missionary to Japan. After that, we'll go together. So one of your daughters, I remember when Eric took her on a missions trip to Japan years ago when she was much younger.

Now, she is ready to go on the mission field to Japan. Now, Casey, you yourself were a Jewish believer. When did you come to faith? I came to the Lord really at the Brownsville Revival is when I really gave my life to the Lord and surrender. And I wasn't really raised with the Jewish beliefs or anything like that. I just went through a searching time through the Jewish beliefs to come to a place with Jesus. But ultimately at the Brownsville Revival is where we surrendered our lives to Jesus.

Right, so Eric has shared on this broadcast how God transformed him. How long have you been in the Philippines? In January, it will be 20 years.

Now, we've been stateside now for about two and a half years because of the lockdown and haven't been able to go back. But a total of 20 years, we've been missionaries. Right, so your kids were virtually raised on the mission field for the great bulk of their lives. And you've been a homeschooler. Who taught you how to homeschool?

Jesus? Actually, I had no background. In fact, I remember being in teacher college, I actually have a teaching degree. And I remember a class where they talked to us about those people, you know, those crazy people that would do this. And I never imagined that homeschooling would be on the trajectory for me because I thought those were those crazy people, you know. Amazing.

That's how higher education often looked at it for some years until they started to see the success. Now, I remember on a recent trip sitting with your family and was talking to one of your sons, maybe you'll remember the exact age he was, but he read my book, Our Hands Are Staying with Blood, and had these very serious, profound questions to ask me. And I'm thinking, wow, I'm expecting to be sitting across the table from an adult talking like this. Do you remember how old he was when we sat and talked? Oh, I think you're talking about David, and that must have been like five years ago. He was probably nine, maybe ten. Yeah, it was a few years back. And I remember thinking, wow, he's read the book, he's having this serious conversation.

Said again, your husband Eric said, that's because of Casey. So what have you, what are the keys? What do you put in your book, Homeschooling Through High School for Success? What have you learned? Basically, the book for me was just a journey that we've gone through that I felt like there were so many times I got to a dead end and I didn't know where to turn.

And of course, Jesus always gives us answers in those times. But I felt like that he told me to share the things that, the tips that he'd given me throughout the years. A lot of trial and error, a lot of crying, a lot of reaching out to other moms, but many times it was moms who hadn't been through the missionary aspect of it. So I felt like that was something, there were no books and no resources for those of us who didn't have libraries and things like that, that you would have in America.

We didn't have homeschool leagues and anything like that. So I also put a lot of that in the book as well to help those of us overseas who don't have the American dream right in front of us. Right. And there, there are plenty of missionary families all around the world. So they have the challenge of being missionaries in a foreign country.

Then added to that, the challenges of not having the normal educational resources that we'd have at our fingertips in America. Again, the book K.C. Miller, Homeschooling Through High School for Success from the Perspective of a Missionary Family. Let's just talk broadly, generically, beyond missions. What are some of the key things that you have found as a mom in terms of teaching and training your kids?

Obviously Eric's been involved the whole time, but I haven't read the book, but I've seen your family. I've watched, I've seen their fruit, I've seen their hearts, their seriousness about the Lord, their love for the Lord. They're, they're being grounded in God, passionate for Jesus, putting these things together, having a good head on their shoulders. What are some of the keys that you've learned?

Well Dr. Brown, I think it really is much more basic than we make it. Every day, no matter what we do, whatever the struggle is that we face, we always pray about it and we speak the word of God. What does God say about it? Everything down to you're having a struggle with your brother or sister and you're fighting and my kids will tell you to this day they're actually sitting in the van and I'm telling you they could say this first, peacemakers who are so in peace will raise a harvest of righteousness. Just reacting to every situation with what God says instead of my opinion or my own ideas or what I've even been trained when I was a kid, we try to respond with the word of God and pray over every situation. It really is that simple and sometimes I think we complicate it and try to be so perfect and we're just not, you know, but God is and He knows the answer to all these things.

So if you just have a number of key scriptural principles to go back to, that's, let's get you your bearings again, then from there bring everything back to God. Now Casey, how many kids do you and Eric have? We have five. And they range in ages. So Sierra's the eldest, she's 24 and Hannah's the youngest and she's 11.

So I'm thinking about, I believe, I'm remembering back to having a talk about schooling and future and things like that and Sierra was maybe two, so 24. Extraordinary, extraordinary. So when you have integrated spiritual with natural, it's overwhelming for a lot of people, you know, you've got a teaching degree but it seems overwhelming in terms of how to teach everything and juggle and you've got all the kids and some in school and class and isn't it overwhelming, isn't it like incredibly hard to juggle all this? You know, it really is overwhelming and it is incredibly hard and I think a lot of people give up because they think they don't have the intelligence or the ability or even the grace to do it. But I've always brought back to this story about Solomon where he went to God and he said, Lord, who in the world could ever lead this great people of yours? And he asked for wisdom. And there's multiple times, I've just fallen on my face before the Lord, you know, you would think with a teacher education that would be helpful but in a lot of ways it was actually detrimental because I learned how to deal with, you know, 25 kids in a classroom.

That doesn't work when you've got five different ages and five different grades and most of what I learned was not applicable to homeschooling although the actual academic material was helpful but as far as teaching, it's very, very different. So I would literally lay before the Lord multiple times and Lord, I need direction again and we would, together, Eric and I would pray over things and speak it out over each other. What's going on? What's God saying? So I think it's just really the basis is to constantly go before the Lord and redirect what is he saying for each individual child and the trajectory for each kid is different. So you start with one kid who feels called to Japan as a missionary and then you've got another kid who feels called to work with Abigail is actually in social work and she feels called to work with refugees and then you've got Jonathan who's on this pathway through engineering to try to help out tribes and other nations and help them to build wells and bridges.

It's so different. So we really have to hear the wisdom of the Lord day by day. Yeah and friends, I think one lesson, one takeaway is that none of us are really qualified, capable, doing things. One of the great revelations that it took me a long time to get and really got deeper in me a little over 20 years ago is God's strength out of my weakness. I start many days, especially in heavy ministry schedules, literally saying, Lord, your strength out of my weakness. I have gotten walking up the steps to a pulpit to preach and my words are strength out of weakness, strength out of weakness. Here's a mom who's had tremendous success raising the kids.

I mean, look at their hearts and their desire to serve and she's saying, should it go to God? Go to God, go to God. We'll be back with more in case you don't have the new book, Home Schooling Through High School for Success in the Perspective of Missionary Family. Stay right here. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire as I speak with our missionary colleague, Casey Miller. She and her husband, Eric, are dear to us here in our ministry. We've watched them serve the Lord sacrificially in many ways around the world, being based in the Philippines and their hearts continue to burn bright. They are a product of the Brownsboro Revival, radically touched and changed there. They went through our ministry school and God's hand is on them.

People say, what's the long-term, how long does that stuff last? Is it a lot of emotionalism? No, no. People were generally touched and changed. Casey's written a book, Home Schooling Through High School for Success from the Perspective of a Missionary Family.

Casey, what's different about molding and shaping a child that's five or six or seven and then continuing to influence a child that's 16, 17, 18? You know, I think the earlier we start the better, no doubt. But I also want to offer hope to families who feel like they started off wrong. In a lot of ways, you know, when we got saved, I was pregnant with the Brownsboro Revival when we got saved and we came to the Lord and we didn't know how to start off.

We made a lot of mistakes and even going to the mission field, I would take back a lot of the ways that I acted or reacted. But the reality is when we lay things before the Lord, he's able to turn whatever the situation is into something good and something amazing. So I just want to put that hope out there because as soon as I say the earlier you start, the better.

Someone's out there going, but my kid's 15 and I've messed up their life. But the Lord is about turning things around. He's about us laying it before him. However, I feel like it also needs to be pointed out that the earlier we start teaching our kids how to walk with Jesus, how to hear his voice, my husband will tell this story a lot of times, how he used to set Sierra down and just have her learn how to be quiet. She was real full of energy. As you know, she's a cross-country runner and she's just always been full of energy. But he had to teach her how to silence herself and he'd start off with like 10 seconds or something and then he'd set a timer and be like, yay, you did it. And then like five minutes, you know, like working her way up. And she does, she waits before the Lord now, you know, she's learned to do that.

But I think it's a process that we have to think of it more like as the mother of a runner, I think of it like a marathon rather than a sprint. Yeah. And have your kids learned to hear the voice of the Lord?

Can you think of any stories where they heard from God for themselves? Oh, absolutely. So Sierra is headed to Miyazaki in Japan, that's the city she's going to. When she chose to go to Regent University, which she's now a graduate of, she has an English degree to teach in Japan. So when she chose that university, it was the one place that didn't give any full tuition scholarships.

And we had no plan B because we're on the mission field, everything we would get in would go right back out. So we were like, there's so many other places here where you can get better scholarships. But she heard from God, so we didn't want to fight with her about it.

We're like, Lord, you got to do something here. So as we're going through that whole process, we find out that Virginia Beach where Regent University is, is what's called a sister city to Miyazaki, Japan. And there's actually a, like a garden there in Virginia Beach that's dedicated to Miyazaki, Japan. It was established in the very month that she was conceived, like literally nine months before she was born. So it's all these crazy signs that the Lord was just showing her along the pathway that we had to back up sometimes and say, rather than telling you what to do, we're just going to let you hear from God and then support that. And as we watched her go through that whole process, she started to want to go to Japan when she was 14. And it's been 10 years and she's had her face like Flint. And now she has a job as a elementary school teacher.

And she starts in May and May of 2023. And everything is falling into place. It's just been an amazing journey. You know, it brings it brings tears to my eyes here that I cannot wait for next month when we get to commission her and send her out, you know, remembering that from the baby in the womb. But distinctly, I remember sitting and talking with you and Eric and you're holding her in your arms and to see the progress to see the calling.

I mean, that's that's what we call lasting, wonderful fruit. What about what about this, though? There's so much social media influence. There's there's so many pressures. You know, any kid in the Philippines to where you've served can have a cell phone and can be seeing all kinds of things. How can we as good parents protect our kids from the wrong influences with without sheltering them so much that when they're out in the world, they're just destroyed by it because they're not ready is what wisdom have you learned? Okay, this is a great time to plug this.

I was waiting for this opportunity. In chapter five of my book, I have to point this out, Dr. Brown, because number 15 in that chapter is the thing that we did with the era where we would we created a class where she would get on the line of fire, and she would listen to it. And then after she would write a journal of what she learned, and she created a debatable topic, and she had to debate on that topic to us and explain her perspective and her point of view. It was so beneficial to her because she was in the Philippines, listening to American topics, that she could understand how to how to engage the culture. So when she came to the US and was faced with these things, she already had a good set of tools in her belt, to be able to deal with what she was facing.

I would suggest that you get on Dr. Brown's show or you know, the line of fire and do the same thing. It was a great way for her to engage that I mean, that's that's absolutely amazing to hear that wonderfully encouraging as well. All right, listen, we just got a few minutes but take us through the contents of the book homeschooling through high school for success. So our listeners can know what they'll get out of this book when they get it. Okay, mainly the book was intended for families that have kids in high school, and it was intended to help them to get good scholarships. That was my main focus.

I want to see every kid who's homeschooled, who loves the Lord go to college for free. So I have all kinds of practical tips. But in the midst of all of that, there's a lot of encouragement, and a lot of personal stories. At the very end, I also have a whole section about third culture kids, that's what we call them, you know, they've been raised in a culture that's not their like ethnicity, but they really take on, say, for instance, Sierra with the Philippines, she really took on being Filipino, but there's an aspect of her that is very American.

So when she came to America, it was like, what am I what does this all mean and how the culture works, but that's in there as well. But my heart was really, mainly for those who have kids in high school, because many times that's when people give up with homeschooling. They feel like I can't do that.

And this is to equip them in that area. Excellent. So friends, Casey Miller, homeschooling through high school for success, from the perspective of a missionary family, you know, when I was getting ready for the show, Casey, I thought to myself, okay, I haven't read the book.

And obviously, I'm not a homeschooling mom, but the subject is of interest because we know so many homeschooling families for so many years and how it became a normal thing when it was just out there fringe originally. But I was thinking what Paul wrote to the Corinthians, the second Corinthians, and he said, look, you are our letter. And people want to find out about Paul, they look at the Corinthians, and that's a letter in terms of his ministry. So I've seen the letter of your lives of you and Eric, loving the Lord, loving each other, loving your kids, and now seeing your kids grow up.

And when I see things posted, you know, in Sierra, running, and then first going to Regent, now graduating, and all this, it just, there's a deep, deep satisfaction that I get. So I can't imagine the joy that you have of pouring in and seeing the fruit. And think of this, so many parents neglect pouring into their kids. Now, some do their very, very best, and the kids go through a period of rebellion. I understand that can happen. But sometimes our kids go through rough times because we didn't make a sufficient investment. And then as the years go on, it's so emotionally draining. It's so difficult to go through.

So plant good seeds now, it will make life much better in the years ahead. Hey, Casey, any last word of encouragement, especially to homeschoolers who are listening, especially to homeschooling moms, any last word of encouragement? Yeah, I just want to say that, you know, whatever it is that you feel that your weekend, whatever you feel like you can't do, that's the very qualifying factor is when we feel like we can't do it. There's not a single person I can point to in the scriptures who actually was successful in God, and they thought they could do it. I mean, you've got Moses, I can't do it, you know, and the one who thought he could, Joseph had to be taken through a humility pill to get there.

So I think just realizing that we're weak, and that we don't have the ability is the key to becoming like Solomon, God, I need your wisdom. So and I want to say this before we get off, Dr. Brown, I want to thank you from our family. They're all behind me and they're saying the same thing. Thank you for investing in our lives. Thank you for what you do. Our family benefits from that. Even at the Light the Fire conference, we took our three younger children and every single one was just blasted with just the power of God.

You know, after your message, they were so so encouraged. Wonderful. Well, we are we are in this together.

We are family and all of you. Make sure the kids know this bring great, great joy to my heart. God bless.

Can't wait to see you back in the Charlotte area next month. Travel safely. Thank you. All right. Bye bye.

Casey Miller. What a joy to talk to her. And I hope that encourages you, stirs you as well. We come back friends.

I'm going to do something I didn't plan on doing, but it's going to be one of these jolts, one of these holy jolts. We come back, I'm going to take some calls. So anything you want to talk to me about, phone lines are open. Any Bible question, any theology issue, political, cultural you want to talk to me about, phone lines are open 866-348-7884. But I am going to read to you from the opening chapter of my book, How Saved Are We?

Remember you can get the book. Plus my brand new book, The Political Seduction of the Church, How Millions of American Christians Have Confused Politics with the Gospel. Plus my audio message, Holy Desperation.

I believe this package of materials will really stir you, really minister to you. And it's special discount, but by phone only. So here's the number to call. 704-498-4673.

Get a few of the packages, give them out to your friends, give them out to your pastor. 704-498-4673. Call now, we'll be right back. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the Line of Fire, 866-34-TRUTH. Any random question totally off topic that you want to ask, phone lines will be open.

I'll be going to the phones shortly. Alright, when I write, I don't just write because I think I want to write something now and just put it out. If it's a teaching book, it's a subject I'm really burdened about or really focused on and feel it's really important that we get this right. If it's a book that's more of a wake-up call or a passionate book, kind of the prophetic side more than the teaching side, that I'm stirred, I'm gripped. And as I'm gripped, I then write.

I write out of that burden. And many people who read my books hear my voice speaking to them as they're reading and feel that same fire and passion. So when I wrote How Saved Are We, it was really during a period of time in the late 80s, early 90s, where God was burdening me more and more for the American church, in particular the American Charismatic church, but broadly the American church. And I was concerned about the gospel message. I was concerned about the level of shallow conversion and it was out of that, I was reading about missionaries around the world and it served with some people living sacrificially and it stirred me afresh what it really means to follow Jesus. Out of that, out of that I wrote the book How Saved Are We. And I want to read to you from the first chapter of the book.

Alright, so this came out in 1990. The American church at the end of the 20th century is experiencing a crisis. For years we have preached the cheap gospel and peddled the soft savior. We have taught salvation without self-denial and the crown without the cross. We have catered to the unsaved and compromised with the world. Now we are paying the price. Let me just interject. That was over 30 years ago.

How much more today? Our quote instant salvation message has dishonored God and deluded men. Our faulty seeds have produced a flaky harvest. What a pitiful crop we are reaping. As American believers we spend hours watching television but minutes watching in prayer.

I'm hungry for the sports page but have little taste for the word. Spend more money on pet food than on foreign missions. Love to feast but hate to fast. Welcome God's blessings but are wary of his burdens. Is this what Jesus died for? Is this our new life in him?

Stop for a moment and think. Anyone who spends more time playing video games and seeking God in prayer has no right to call Jesus Lord. Anyone who takes delight in today's perverted soap operas is serving another God.

Anyone who cannot die to sports for a season is worshipping idols. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him because friendship with the world is hatred toward God. First John 2 15 James 4 4. In reality, whose friends are we? It's time for some serious soul searching. What kind of born again experience have we had if it calls for almost no personal sacrifice, produces virtually no separation from the world, and breeds virtually and breeds practically no hatred of sin? How can we claim to be born from above?

Where is the evidence of our new nature? We call ourselves citizens of heaven, yet our hearts are caught up in earthly treasures. We sing, we are the people of God, but we are entertained by the worst of the devil's children. We claim to be dead to the world, yet we are more interested in temporal fashions than in eternal souls. Something is wrong with our salvation experience.

Bad fruits means bad roots. We say, just confess Jesus as Lord and you're in. He says, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Matthew 7 21. We say, just pray this prayer and it's done. He says, if anyone just wants to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke 9 23. We say, just come to the altar. It will only take a minute. He says, make every effort to enter through the narrow door because many I tell you will try to enter and will not be able to.

Luke 13 24. Who do you think is right? Well, that's some of the opening words of How Saved Are We. Remember to get the book, together with my brand new book, The Political Seduction of the Church, which lays out the high and lofty calling on us as Jesus followers. And then the Holy Desperation message, which I believe will really stir you to go after God and to ask for a fresh fire in your own heart, your own life, your own church.

So all the books together, over $40 of resources. So the last day we're announcing it on radio and you have to call in to take advantage. 704-498-4673.

So you save over $15. 704-498-4673. It would bless me to get this into your hands because I really believe these resources will bless you and will contribute to why we're here, which is to see the church healthy, thriving and thereby shining the light in the society, thereby serving as the moral conscience of the society. All right, let us go to the phones. We'll start in Westville, Oklahoma. Isaac, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, brother, how are you? Doing very well, thank you. Okay, so I do have a question.

We live here in Westville. There's a lot of crazy charismatics out here and a lot of them come up to you and they're trying to prophesy over you and a lot of them, their prophecies don't come to pass. So I'm trying to find out where you can find out in the Bible, however, in 1 Corinthians chapter 14, verse 3, when it talks about prophesy, prophesy prophesy, and it says, but he that prophesy it speak unto men, to edification and exhortation and to comfort.

It doesn't say anything like, God's gonna bless you give you a new car or, you know, I had this one pastor. So this couple he backslid and he was smoking meth. And he said the next time or God still I mean, next time you smoke meth, he's going to kill you. And he was clean for a bit and went back to it. This guy's still alive. So like, how do how do we justify that?

Or how can we? How does that make sense? You know what I mean?

Yes, sir. So there's a lot of flaky stuff out there for sure. And there was flaky stuff in Paul's day. Look at all the abuses Paul dealt with with the Corinthians, but he didn't deny the reality of the Holy Spirit and neither are you. He didn't deny the reality or importance of the gifts. In fact, he starts his letter and commends them for not lacking any spiritual gift, right? But they had all kinds of problems, moral problems, doctrinal problems, abuses with the gifts. And it can get so bad that Paul had to write in 1 Thessalonians 5, don't despise prophecy. Because sometimes it's just, that's flaky, that's weird, that's wrong, that's false.

It's easy to write the whole thing off. So he says, don't despise prophecy. Don't put out the Spirit's fire.

Test everything and hold fast to the good. So the verse you quoted, 1 Corinthians 14, 3, lays out the general purposes of prophecy, right? The one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation, or the word encouragement could also be translated exhortation. So that's the general purpose of prophecy. It can obviously have correction in it, but obviously its main purpose is going to build up, strengthen believers. So there are times when we have to warn, but we better believe that we know that we know that we know that we are speaking on God's behalf. As one of my colleagues has asked me repeatedly, does it bother you that people are claiming God speaking through them when he's not? Isn't that taking his name in vain? On a certain level it is. And there have been rare times where I have been gripped, I mean gripped to the point of tears and burden and weeping, where I've had to go warn someone, if you mess up, if you keep going back to this, it could destroy your marriage and your life, only to see it happen.

It's grievous, it's painful. But we don't do that lightly. We don't tell someone, God's going to come through, I know you're going through a crisis, God's going to come through and bail you out. We better be sure that the Lord is really speaking, otherwise the better policy is to go up to someone and say, I have this on my heart, can I share it with you and you test it before the Lord? Or would you take it to your pastor or elders and test this? Better to be humble, better to say, I feel this is the Lord, is this relevant for you? I was ministering to a couple, it was a presbytery service where different leaders were laying hands on people that were being set apart for different ministry functions, and I distinctly had Isaiah 62 on my heart, which is raising up a call for Zion and Jerusalem, and I said to them, this may be completely out in left field, or this may be something very relevant, but I just want to share with you what's on my heart, which is I see a real calling for you to be advocates for Israel and really be connected to Israel and Jewish ministry, and I spoke more to them, talked to them afterwards, I said yeah, we've always had a burden for Israel, we just didn't know what the expression was, and then other people came up to me and said, oh yeah, they have a clear Israel calling, they just don't know exactly what it is, so that was encouraging to hear, but as strong as I felt it, I still felt, let me submit it to them. So, if someone comes up for you, especially, I understand you have a lot of cities where you have a lot of graduates from ministry schools, they can tend to accumulate a lot of folks that are looking for an outlet for their calling, you know, and if you come walking by, they're going to prophesy to you, so that can even increase some of the flakiness, but I've had people that seem weird, that definitely were not in the kind of people I'd want to fellowship with, but God's used them to speak to me prophetically, so I've learned not to despise the packaging, I've had things spoken to me that seemed really out there, but then God kept laying it on my heart that there was truth to it, and I saw the thing come to pass, but biggest thing is your own relationship with God, testing everything by scripture, and if the Bible does not directly address it, it doesn't directly speak to that situation, then you give it to the Lord, if it stays in your heart, if you feel there's something to it, and it really is a true word, or you share it with other friends, and they say that resonates with me, then you say, all right, Lord, if you're really saying this, I want to take hold of it, but key thing, don't despise prophecies or put out the Spirit's fire, but test everything and then hold on to the good. It's easy for us to get cynical with bad experiences, that's what we need to avoid, but cynical is just as bad as gullible, those are two extremes to avoid, all right? So do you believe real quick that you're mixed up with prophecy?

Do I believe what? That some people could just get word of knowledge mixed up with prophecy. Yeah, yeah, in other words, God shows me something, maybe he shows me that you're sick, I turn that into a prophecy that you're going to be healed, or God shows me that there's a financial need, I turn that into a prophecy that you're going to succeed or something like that, so God may give us information supernaturally, but what do we do with that? Maybe we're not even supposed to say anything. Maybe it's just for us to know that and to pray.

So I think sometimes, yes, it's true, the Holy Spirit gifts someone and they get information, they get revelation, and now they want to put an interpretation on it, or put a nice little bow on top of it, so be careful only to speak what God gives you to speak, be careful not to put your interpretation on it. Hey Isaac, thank you for the practical questions, I appreciate it, we'll be right back. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Let me encourage your friends, visit our website AskDrBrown.org. My latest article is entitled when, quote, masculine Christianity becomes unhealthy and even dangerous. I absolutely believe this is a time for Christian men to be courageous, to be real men, to be godly, to be strong, to lead, to protect, to have backbone, to be uncompromising, to be men of faith and character. I absolutely believe there is a critical need for that, that there is a machismo Christianity where the stronger and tougher and meaner you get, the more like Jesus you are, the nester you are, the more anointed you are, and we're gonna fight back, and it becomes even militarized and gets completely off gospel topics.

That's dangerous and unhealthy. So I lay out the contrast there, what we really need versus a fleshly version where Jesus gives us an outlet for the flesh. So read that on the website AskDrBrown.org.

We still do have seats for our Israel trip as we were able to open up some additional hotel rooms and get a second bus, but the sooner you register, the better. That's all at AskDrBrown.org. Alright, let us go over to Texas, Sid, welcome to the line of fire. Yes, thank you, thank you Dr. Brown, thank you for all that you do for the culture and for sound doctrine. I appreciate it.

You're very welcome, sure thing. Yeah, I have a question, it's in regard to the Hebrew words neshama and nefesh. What are the differences between these two words? I've heard them, they've been defined as speaking of the soul or something like that.

Yeah, so, it's a question I have to think carefully so as to answer in a way that will be edifying to you and our listeners as opposed to get into a technical discussion that wouldn't be helpful. Let me first say that Greek definitions, as we have in the New Testament, are a little bit more specific in terms of kind of dissecting human nature between body, soul, and spirit. Those distinctions are a little deeper in Greek. Hebrew is a bit more generic and can even be a bit more holistic in expression. You have the word ruach in Hebrew which can mean spirit, wind, or breath, just as pneuma in the New Testament can mean spirit, wind, or breath, but there is more about the spiritual nature of man in the New Testament relating to being a pneumatic of the spirit than there is in the Old Testament.

The spirit will come upon people and empower, it's a little different dimension. As for the words for soul, so primarily nefesh in Hebrew as well as neshamah, so we'll concentrate on that in a moment, and sukay in Greek, there are a lot of similarities between those words. They can just mean people, you know, 3,000 souls can mean 3,000 people, but also soul in terms of our inner being, our consciousness, the inner as opposed to the outer. And soul, nefesh, the Hebrew word nefesh may have originally come from the word for neck or throat. You even have, for example, Jonah in the Psalms talking about the water coming up to the nefesh, meaning up to the neck, or yoke being put on the nefesh, that means on the neck. And the best way to understand how the word evolved in its meaning is from throat, neck, to that which comes out of the throat, the breath, and then the breath signifying the inner life, then the inner life being the nefesh, because it's also related to the verb for breathing, being renewed and refreshed, all related to that same root. So, what's the difference between nefesh and neshamah? Neshamah does not have those other meanings that relate to neck or throat or anything like that. But as far as the essence of the words, neshamah and nefesh are very very similar, I could have started there, excuse me, very very similar. Neshamah perhaps could be a little closer to the inner spirit, and nefesh just the inner soul, so the life itself, the word nefesh can just refer to that as being the life, say animating life in an animal form, as well as the inner spiritual being, so it has a wider range of meanings, neshamah is more specifically the inner being, it can relate to breath as well, but more specifically the inner being, but when they're both used, if you're contrasting body and nefesh, or body and neshamah, almost synonyms, if you're fine tuning the differences, neshamah a little bit more could lean towards the spiritual essence of man, nefesh just the inner life force of man.

When the psalmist says, Barhi nafshiyat Adonai v'chol kravay, it's shame code show, Psalm 103, bless the Lord, oh my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name, but he's really saying it's all of me, everything inside of me, all of me, go ahead and bless and praise God. The nefesh sometimes is just, if it talks about my nefesh sometimes just means me, me, so a little bit different than this idea of body, soul, spirit, in a separate entity, it's more the inner life when we think of nefesh, so I've said a lot, maybe you can ask something more specific if that doesn't answer, but there's a lot of overlap in short between nefesh and neshamah. Well I'm just wondering, so when you, the makeup of a person, like their spirit, soul, and body, would, in a sense, that would be the makeup of a person, a spirit, soul, and body? Yes, so that is one way of expressing it, in other words, that's how it's expressed in 1 Thessalonians 5, 23, and then Hebrews 4, 12 talks about the dividing between soul and spirit, so I do believe that if you really want to define us clearly, we are trichotomous, that we and our ultimate essence are spirits with souls which express human consciousness housed in a body, so our inner being is spirit and soul. Others just look at us as dichotomous, that there's the inner being and the outer being, and then of course the emphasis in the Hebrew Bible is just we are one person, but I believe the right way to break it down is spirit, soul, body, so spirit, our innermost being that is born again when we come into new life in Jesus, soul is our consciousness, and that works together with our spirit for human functioning, and then the body is where we are housed, so we'll get a new body, but it will be our spirit-soul that goes in the world to come. English can refer to soul in that way, but not in as precise a way as Sukkah in Greek. Neshama in that sense would be more, if I wanted to say body, soul, spirit, I might say body, neshama, spirit, if I was talking in the Hebrew Bible.

Okay, okay, thank you very much, I appreciate it Dr. Brown. Yep, sure thing, and I apologize for the over-wordy answer, it's just when I get asked Hebrew questions, certain things I've thought about and studied, it will stir a lot, I'm trying to sift through what's going to be most helpful for you. By the way, by the way, Judaism will make certain distinctions and find certain essence in the Shema, I don't know that I find all of those distinctions in the text. Okay, I want to come back to something, I read from the opening words of my book How Saved Are We, and you might say, are you saying salvation is by works? Are you saying that praying a prayer is not enough? I'm saying that being born again is something radical, and real, and definite, and if it happens by just, Jesus save me, help me save me, you realize, and yourself, fine, but it is not just saying a formula, that's the point. Alright, repeat after me, say these words, but just repeating words, walking down an aisle and repeating words doesn't save anyone, unless there was a genuine recognition from the heart, I need saving, I need forgiving, what are we being saved, are you saved? Saved from what?

Saved to what? What does it mean to be saved? Can I be saved and do my own thing? Can I be saved and say, well I don't want Jesus as Lord, I just want the benefits of heaven?

No, of course not. No, we're not saved by works, but we are genuinely saved. We are brought from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light, from death to life. We are brought from Satan's power under the power of God. We are bought with a price, and we went from serving Satan to serving God. We have been set free, not to sin, but from sin. So how saved are we? We'll lay out what it really means to follow Jesus, I believe it'll challenge you, I believe when you look at the missionaries and the people that God has used and how they live for God, it'll make you think, wow, my life can count, my life can count! And I don't have to be full-time on the mission field, I don't have to be a pastor preaching from the pulpit, I don't have to have a big social media following, living for Jesus, my life can count, and I can honor the master. So remember, just want to mention this one last time, this is by phone only, call 704-498-45 4673, my brand new book, The Political Seduction of the Church. I don't know that I've written a book that was more urgent and timely when it came out and people reading it, while what I'm hearing is actually beyond what I was expecting to hear in terms of how the book is speaking and how much people are saying, yes, I've been feeling this, thank you. The Political Seduction of the Church, how saved are we? And the Holy Desperation CD, a message that will really stir you to go after God. Call now 704-498-4673, if lines are busy, just leave your info, we'll get right back to you. 704-498-4673, needless to say, each order helps support our ministry work, helps us reach more people. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.