Stories of Faith and the Unseen

Kingdom Pursuits, where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion. Together we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into Kingdom Pursuits. Now live from the Truth Booth, your host, Robbie Dilmore. A lot of exciting stuff to share with you.

I love how God takes your passion and uses it to build the Kingdom. And today we have Paul Renfro with us, and Rogelio—I'm going to say it, I hope—is it, am I saying that right? Rogelio from Magandavana Dam.

Pardon me? Yes, it is a pleasure to talk to you this morning. Yes, you are saying it right, Rogelio. Yeah, and you're with Magandavana Dam? Yes, I volunteered back in 2022 with the Israeli National Emergency Service System, Magandavana Dam. I'm Mexican, by the way, I just did some volunteering. Isn't that awesome? I think it's absolutely wonderful, and I understand you have an amazing story for the time that you spent with them, and for those who are not familiar with that organization, you know, we have the American Red Cross in Israel, since their, you know, symbol is the shield of David, which is what Magandavana means. The shield of David and Adam is what the Hebrew word for red, and so you put the three together, and you've got Magandavana Dam, and that's the Israeli Red Cross, so to speak, would be maybe an easier way for us to relate, and so what Rogelio, am I saying that right?

Yes, perfectly. He had volunteered from Mexico, which everybody can that wants to do it. He is actually a physician in Mexico, and he's, again, going to have an amazing story, and then I'm really, really excited about this. We have author Mark Lew with us, and Mark wrote a book, a very challenging book, actually. It's called Etched in Stone. Welcome, Mark.

Thank you, sir. And so, Mark, give us a little idea, a little taste of what that book Etched in Stone is about. It's quite a story. Well, there is the protagonist, Jody, who finds this stone in the Kalahari, of all places. Underneath some sand, they're doing some excavation work, and she finds some etching on it, and it turns out that there is this rather devout Jewish man who comes by and reads the etching on the stone, and it says, Na Vened in Hebrew, which is fugitive and wanderer, the mark of Cain. So, as she picks the stone up, she suddenly transported back to the Garden of Eden, and she witnesses the creation of Adam. So she understands that this stone has some, let's say, magical properties, and when she gets it out into the public eye, one of the people who sees it, he's a very popular podcaster, and his interpretation of why the stone was buried, and by whom, sparks pandemonium in the streets.

All right. Well, we're going to come in there and say, okay, you can see he's got quite a story, and there's lots of implication to what he's talking about. We're going to get into all that in the show today, and also, we have with us an old friend, Paul Renfrow. I've interviewed him a number of times at the NRB, and Paul has written a new book, Nobody Sees the Nations, and so, Paul, welcome to Kingdom Pursuits. Thank you. Thank you, Robbie. What a treat, and you know, it was so great to see you, even though we didn't get to talk a lot.

Your listeners may not know what an active interviewer and broadcaster you are. It's surprising you're able to breathe and eat while you're there, because you're constantly with somebody. Well, I'm blessed. I often feel like I have to pinch myself, because I meet so many fascinating people with so many fascinating stories and wonderful books that God's put on their heart, and God's put a new one on your heart, and it has me totally engulfed here. Nobody Sees the Nations. Can you give us just a little taste of what that is?

Well, sure. So, the subtitle is How Darkness Rules the Many Through the Few. It's book five in my now eleven-book Unseen series. And Dr. Michael Heiser really opened a lot of people's eyes with his original scholarly book, The Unseen Realm, followed by a shorter layman-level book called Supernatural. And he, from the evangelical community, brought over so many people with a new awareness of things, and of course you already had folks like Sid Roth and others. Did we lose you?

I think we lost Paul for a second, but hopefully we can get him back. And again, we've got a whole lot of stuff loaded for you today on Kingdom Pursuits. But getting back to Rogelio in Mexico, so how did you end up volunteering for Magandava da Dom? Well, that's an interesting question. I can put it in a few words that God told me, God opened me the door to be able to, first of all, learn Hebrew. Never in my life I thought about learning Hebrew or going to Israel, being in an ambulance, saving lives in Israel. I think that was a God-like purpose that he had on me. That was the reason I went to Israel back in 2022. So, wow, I mean, you just really felt this, like, God's in this. Yes, sure, sure.

How amazing to go to Israel just to begin with, to see all this going there, but to go there to actually save lives, which is kind of like why you became a physician, right? Kind of, yes, kind of. But that time, in 2022, I was really so distant with God. Very, very, very distant.

Really? Yes. And so, you go on this adventure, and you say that at the time, so I take it your sense relationship has gotten closer. Yes, sure, sure. And since I had this experience, I wanted to share with you, I had in Israel, since then, I have been very, very, very close with God.

Very close. I am really, really excited to hear that. So why don't we, you know, well, we've got a break coming up in just a minute.

We won't go too far with that. We're going to come back to Mark for a second while we wait to get Paul back, which, by the way, we're going to, here in a minute, we're going to do what's called Robbie's riddles. And for Mark and Paul, I mean, for Rogelio and Mark, you know, there's these dad jokes that my listeners are expecting, along with a riddle that they can call in and win.

So we're going to do that when we come back as well. But Mark, I understand that there is a part of your book that has to do with the relationship between Cain and Abel. Yes, sir. So may I start with the backstory? You can start, but we'll probably hit the break before we get too far.

But go ahead. So my veterinarian's a Coptic Christian, grew up in Egypt, very devout. So for our listeners that aren't familiar with that word, what's a Coptic Christian? They are Christians who, the seat of the power for the Coptic Christians is in Alexandria, not Rome, like the Catholics. Okay, so they're similar to Orthodox, perhaps, but not answering to Rome, so to speak.

Correct. Well, that's cool, but that music's telling me that we're going to have to go. So we can see that, okay, we're going to find this out from the Coptic Christian, and Mark's got that. Roselia and Paul Renfrow's back with us.

We'll be right back. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom. So blessed to have with us today Mark Lew. He's the author of Etched in Stone, and Paul Renfrow.

He's the author of Nobody Sees the Nations. And Roselia from Mexico, a physician in Mexico with Magandabad Adam, recently volunteered. I can't wait to hear that story as well. But, you know, when I was thinking about stone, you knew this was coming, right, Nick? So, speaking of stone, yeah, now the fun begins. So, especially right after St. Patrick's Day, it's time to play shenanigans, right?

Yes, it is. All right, so, speaking of stone, why, and by the way, any of you guys, Mark, Roselia, or Paul, you're welcome to try to answer these dad jokes. Okay, jokes are always enjoyable.

There you go. Why does nobody like a rich stone? Do you know that one, Nick? A rich stone? Why does, you know, I'm talking about wealthy. Why does nobody like a rich stone? Something with gold, I don't know. Something with rock.

It's because the rich always take everything for granted. Okay, got it. There you go. Now you know the game you're playing. It takes you a while. Okay. So, what would be on Batman's tombstone?

How would it read? Batman, you're familiar with him? His tombstone. We're talking stone here. And it was etched in stone, by the way. I knew you'd like that, Mark.

Yeah, no, I'm here to hear it, actually. It says, good night, K-N-I-G-D. Good night. I knew you'd like that. Okay.

That's going in my repertoire. Okay, there you go. And, you know, what did the kidney stone say to the man?

What did the kidney stone, Paul? I'm not hearing you. I'm just passing through. Oh, I like that. I like that. That would be good, especially if it actually did. This is more what it usually says to me.

It says, you're in trouble. Yes, yes. I thought you'd get that one, Paul.

I really thought... Yeah, I had to visualize it, but... You're going to like that. I bet you somebody gets this one. Okay. So, why did the ancients not use stones for their sundials? They didn't like to use stones. Why did the ancients, you know, speaking of ancient stone, why did the ancients use not... They wouldn't use a stone for their sundial. I didn't know.

It would always give them a hard time. So, I knew you'd like that. All right. So, at the end of those shenanigans, you knew I would have a riddle, or you could call it and win today. And so, here it comes.

We're trying to get our hotkeys going, but sometimes they don't work. There it is. Okay. So, when it comes to stones... Yeah, I was talking about you. Yeah, there you go. So, when it comes to stones, you have to say God is on a roll.

You just do. He always is. He is. In what book of the Old Testament did God roll away the reproach of Egypt? So, when it comes to stones, God is on a roll. In what book of the Old Testament did God roll away... Those were the words he used. And it was actually, you know, Gilgal, by the way, I would mention, which means a rolling stone. Sort of a rock and roll back there in the Old Testament. The reproach of Egypt.

He rolled it away in what book? 866-348-7884. And if they can call in and share that one, Nick, tell them what they'll win. Absolutely. Yes, you'll be winning a prize from our Kingdom Pursuits Prize Vault.

Just give us a call at 866-348-7884. We're really going to test you today. I'm excited to know who's going to get this one, because it's a little tougher than usual. In what book of the Old Testament did God roll away the reproach of Egypt? Okay. And so, when we left our hero... And we got all sorts of heroes in this one. Rogelio, I am dying to hear how God drew you closer there in Israel. Sure, sure. Well, first of all, I want to apologize for my English. It is not my home language, so I will try my best. Rogelio, don't apologize, because we love... Actually, it makes us focus more on what you're saying, number one. Number two, it's kind of cool that it was the Hebrew language that kind of drew you to Israel to begin with.

Because, you know, that's God's heart language from my point of view. And I think it's beautiful. And so that's even more the reason I'm excited to hear your story. So, go on.

Yes, sure, sure. Well, before I was sharing with you my story, just quick, I want to tell you that Marjane Tabirazon is sure an example of the doctor I want to be. The way they treat patients, the way...

I had this thought that when a population of a country or where the people are more close to God, they end to be more human with persons. And that is very reflected on the way Marjane Tabirazon in the pre-hospital area, the way they treat patients. I see it like a candle.

You see, when there is a person that has some illness or is emotionally bad, emotional down, that light of that candle, well, it can be a little bit lower than the normal. So Marjane Tabirazon keeps that light of each patient and it makes sure to be shining brighter. And that's why I think that's where God is present more in the land of Jesus, that is in Israel, Jerusalem. I was doing my volunteering in Jerusalem and, well, I had to say that since I arrived from Israel, I continued my studies here in Mexico in clinical rotation, internships here in Mexican hospital.

And not to speak bad from Mexican hospitals, but I was stuck in how here in Mexico we treat different to the patients as where I saw in Israel. And I think it's because of one phrase I read in Jerusalem, in Israel. I was once entering the hospital and I saw this wall. They had this writing saying that, he who preserves one's soul is considered as if he had preserved a whole world.

And I think the whole medical personnel… Oh, well, just slow down right there, Rogelio, because, you know, I'm just going to point out that it was etched in stone, right? And that's absolutely beautiful, right? And it's straight out of the scripture, right? He who sells one soul saves a whole world, right?

Sure. And I saw it everywhere. I saw it in every hospital. And I think that's the essence of why the medical personnel in Israel treats the patient and makes them comfortable, makes them happier.

And I think that's what it's like here in Mexico. We don't have so many people that treat a patient that way. And I think that is very remarkable and that speaks how God, when it's present in people, he can do miracles. Because I saw a lot of miracles in patients, in patient health. And that's the reason.

That's the reason. It's just right close to God. And so as you listen to that, Mark, I'm very curious. Yes. It was etched in stone, right? It was etched in stone, yes, sir.

You know, my daughter's a nurse and every time that I say buy, I say save a thousand, because saving one saves a thousand. I mean, not the whole world, but, yeah, that basic idea. It really is. It really is.

And it's absolutely beautiful. So we haven't had a chance to talk to Paul much about his book, because we lost his phone, but your book, right? Nobody Sees the Nations, which is right along the same lines, right, Paul?

It is. Well, I was thinking that as the brother was talking about the difference in the medical attitudes between Israel and Mexico. Now, the title of the book, the full title is Nobody Sees the Nations, How Darkness Rules the Many Through the Few. I'm looking at the table of contents right now and part two is entitled Nation Claiming.

What happened? God set it up at Babel when he divided humanity. It was the first time humanity had ever been divided.

It was after the flood. So the story of Babel is not just in there because of origin of languages, but also because it's the origin of ethnicity and the origin of nations, which is the Bible concept of ethnicity, not political. And so the kingdom of darkness, unable to keep up with human multiplication because the devil and his fallen angels cannot reproduce. So they claim nations.

Well, right now, let's use ethnic groups. There's 22,000 language groups on the earth right now. Well, the kingdom of darkness can keep up with 22,000, a lot easier than they can keep up with 8 billion individual people. And so that's the concept, but it's one that God set up. And you see this in the Old Testament prophets. So that's a little bit about it.

The reason it applies with what the brother was saying about Mexico and Israel is that this goes for America and every single nation, political nation, but also every ethnic group, also every language group. The kingdom of darkness has a principality assigned to ruling it for God's purpose. That's absolutely right.

That's absolutely right. So we've got to go to a break, I'm afraid, but this would be a great opportunity for you to dial 866-348-7884 and tell us in what book of the Old Testament did God roll away the reproach of Egypt? If you're interested in doing that, you can win something from our Truth Prize vault.

Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom we're so blessed to have with us. Mark Lew, he's the author of Etched in Stone. Paul Renfrow, the author of Nobody Sees These Nations, with more to that title, we'll get to in a minute. Paul Renfrow, the author of Nobody Sees These Nations, with more to that title, we'll get to in a minute. Paul Renfrow, the author of Nobody Sees These Nations, with more to that title, we'll get to in a minute. One more time, Paul? How Darkness Rules the Many Through the Few.

Right. And you could kind of see where you're going with the title of that, like you said, that there's principalities and powers, and they're assigned, as we see in the book of Daniel, as you described, different ethnicities or nations, depending on how you want to look at that. And it's really, really amazing. And so this book, is it a novel or is it nonfiction? It's a Bible study, essentially.

And Robbie and the listeners should know that in all the books of my 11 book Unseen series, which they can obtain on Amazon by searching my name, Paul Renfrow, they can also go to ParadigmLighthouse.com, which is my website. But all my books are at least, at least two fifths of the word count are actual scripture citations. And I did not want to start writing books. I'm in the financial business.

I've been doing it for 30 years. And when the Lord first gave me my first table of contents, I said, I don't want to write a book. I don't want my head on the chopping block.

I could be wrong. And all the objections, like Moses in Exodus three, the Lord said, put my scripture in the book. And that way people can interact directly with me and I'll lead them and to get you off the hook.

So that's what I do. And because what do I want? I don't want to be right.

I want people to interact with God Almighty. And I know what I know. The listener is going to know more.

And we're all growing together. And so I don't need to be right. I just need to be faithful. And of course, I try to be right.

I don't want to minimize it. So remember, in Ephesians 6, 12, Paul said, we don't wrestle against flesh and blood. That's what you usually hear. And it's what we usually use to when we have hostility from other people, individuals we might know. But let's just take that part out and just put the sentence together without it. We do wrestle against principalities. Now this is way over my head, way over yours and all of us.

Why? For the very reason Jesus gave, blessed are the poor in spirit. So here we have these ancient beings that predate humanity.

They've had many, many lifetimes to practice their corruption and deception skills. And here we come along. We start off our life dead in spirit, thanks to Adam and Eve and their fall. And then we have to be born again because Jesus said, flesh gives birth to flesh, spirit gives birth to spirit. So now as believers, we're spirits. And how are we going to, but we're still immature. I mean, we're great maybe compared to somebody that's not saved.

But golly, you know, we have these enemies. And then here's Apostle Paul. He wasn't shrinking back. You know, he said, we're wrestling.

And so we don't need to shrink back. The Scripture exposes the habits. For instance, in the table of contents. Well, just because we got a lot to talk about today. But, you know, speaking of those enemies and those things, you know, I can't help but think of Mark's book, Etched in Stone. And I'm sure you can relate, Mark, in that that's a lot of what ends up happening is who would have thought that Cain's brother would become his enemy or vice versa?

Here's what's interesting that I found. So I read that past the Genesis 4 numerous times, and there was something in it that didn't quite jibe in my own head. So I started asking people about what purpose does this story serve?

And I got so many different answers. Pride comes before the fall. There is a it's the first indication that there's a violent and maybe even vile instinct, not instinct, but nature to man. I got things like, you know, he reacted quickly by and so the more the moral here is to let things settle for a moment before you react. I got oh, and then, of course, there's well, Abel offered his lamb and the fat thereof and Cain just grabbed some vegetables because he was the farmer and Abel was the sheep herder.

But none of these, I don't know how to put this, none of these really seem to satisfy the tale in my perspective. And then I met with somebody who said, oh, no, actually, the meaning is that the lamb's life is more valuable because he's a higher being, he's more sentient than a vegetable. So God said, Abel, your offering is worthier, more valuable than your brother's.

And then, of course, Cain reacted and slew his brother in the field. So I wrote a story, not because of the lesson and not because of the moral, but because of the variations of answers that I got from different people. And I said, what if I offer a version that most people don't necessarily agree with or haven't necessarily thought of, it's not a question of agreement, it's not like I'm right, everybody else is wrong. But biblical learning, a great deal of it comes from one generation to the next. So whatever interpretation your parents, your teachers, your church has regarding this one moment is what you adapt as your belief.

It's what you adopt, not adapt. And so I offer something different. I offered the version that Cain slew his brother in righteous anger and unrighteous anger, as the case may be. But the story goes someplace unexpected, it's exciting and it's interesting at the very least. And it's not to disprove the Bible and it's not to say, you know, Scripture is, what is the word? Errant or something?

Yeah, Errant. On the contrary, it's because I got so many different versions and so many different answers, I said, well, then let's open this up and see if we can offer yet another one. All right, Mark, well, I'm going to jump in here right there, because that's just really cool, right? And so I think that most authors, right, as they work through a manuscript, God's going to work with them to help them isolate the question. In other words, anybody that reads the Scriptures, in my opinion, has got to go into a conversational intimacy with God to say, what does this mean?

What does this mean right here exactly? And so it's really cool that part of the way you work that out is by working on that manuscript. And I also see the same thing in Paul's story.

So there you are in Mexico and you're trying to work out this new huge difference you see in essentially the way that the Magandavada dham approaches medicine versus how you approach medicine and what's the difference. And that's beautiful. Well, we have all three and we have Ms. J now is going to answer to the riddle, so we're going to get her when we come back. And so this next segment of Kingdom Pursuits should be really exciting. Boy, I'm intrigued about all three, all four now. We should be right back on Kingdom Pursuits.

Stay tuned. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom. Oh, such an amazing show today we've had with Rogelio, with Magandavada dham, Paul Renfro with his book Nobody Sees These Nations, and Mark Lew with his book Etched in Stone, which, by the way, you can find all those at Amazon, or you can find them under their names.

Mark Lew or Paul Renfro and, again, Magandavada dham, very, very prominent there in Israel. And we also got Ms. J calling in with the answer to the riddle. We're going to get to that. But Rogelio, I would love to hear your story. We don't have a whole lot of time left, but by all means, can you share it?

Sure, I can. Just very, very quickly before I mention the story. In my ambulances, I will talk about how the multicultural and multi-religion medical personnel were on the ambulances. We had Arab Jewish me that was Catholic Christian. It was a very beautiful mixture of culture, religion and tradition. We were making sure that we were there on shift for everybody in Israel.

You can find more about that information at savinglifeinisrael.org. I'm going right now to share my history, what happened to me, what made me more close to God. I met a guy in Israel. Before that, there were many things in my life that were not correct or right. But I kept looking for God. I kept searching for Him, seeking to Him and talking to Him. And I like it because I was doing my ambulance shift in the Jerusalem city. I like to, after the shift, go to the church of the Holy Sepulchre. And I went one day after one shift.

I went to spend, all the shifts, to spend the rest of the afternoon at the church, just listening, talking to God, being there. And when I was inside in the church for about, I think, an hour, I saw this very noticeable man entering the church. He was wearing white robes, a wooden stick, a big white bread, long straight white hair. He was barefoot and he was with a very friendly facial expression. It didn't look so bad, so you could think, oh, he was homeless.

He looked special. And well, after an hour, I was being in the church, the church closed. So the person in the church said, okay, bye-bye, we are closing the church. And I was sitting outside the church and I sat outside and I saw this man again, and he was approaching to me. And as he was approaching to me, he asked me in Spanish and in a very gentle manner. He spoke to me as if he had known me all my life. And he asked me two questions in a row, three questions. The first question and the first thing he told me was, why did I was so distant from God?

And I did not have a word to explain. I told him, yes, I have been very, very distant. And then he asked me the second question, why did you come to Israel? And then I told you what I told you in the beginning of this interview. I told him, God spoke to me. And the two questions, it wasn't a question, but he told me, you must come back to Israel again.

And we talked like 20 minutes. I gave him the promise to renounce to the things in life that are not of God. The things of the world.

Those things are not useful to keep the gods back. And I said to him, I will promise you that I will follow God now into one. He told me, I know the priests and the church in your hometown. I know all the churches in the world.

I know a lot of languages. And in the middle of the conversation I had with this mysterious man, I remember seeing a cat come from out his under feet covered by the white tunic he was wearing. And then this man, I don't know where he got food from.

I think it was like tuna. And he fed the cat with his bare hand. And he continued to talk with me.

And then the cat disappeared. We kept talking. I do not remember more about the conversation, but he never told me his name or anything about him. He just told me. He was there for me to ask me those questions. And then he said gently, goodbye. And he left as I saw him walking out the street.

And he was never the same. Oh, I hate we ran out of time. Because I guess Ms. J's got an answer to the little witch I would have told you is out of the book of Joshua. Judges, excuse me. No, it's out of the book of Joshua.

That's where Gilgal was and their approach to that. So she's got that. We're going to send her the prize.

But again, the books that we're talking about, Etched in Stone, Nobody Sees These Nations, and that amazing story. Thank you so much for Joe. Oh, that made my day to hear all that. I would love to have all of you back on again sometime where we have more time to get into it. Magen David Adam there in Israel. Thank you all so much for an amazing show. Now stay tuned for Encouraging Prayer, followed by The Masculine Journey starts here now at 12 o'clock. Thanks for listening.