Embodied Kabbalah: Jewish Mysticism for All People

This is Andy Thomas from the Masculine Journey Podcast, where we discover what it means to be a wholehearted man. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. This is the Truth Network. . Kingdom Pursuits, where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion.

Together, we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into Kingdom Pursuits. Now live from the Truth Booth, your host, Robby Dilmore. Oh, I cannot tell you the treat that we have for you today. I have long anticipated this actual show in so many different ways. I'm really excited with the guests that we have lined up for you today. I think you're going to be so glad. We also have a very impressive gift today, if you can answer my riddles. So we've got all sorts of good stuff coming for you.

So first off, we have with us Rabbi Matthew. Am I saying it right? Penak? Ponech.

Ponech. Oh, good. I want to get it right.

And so he is the author of Embodied Kabbalah, Jewish Mysticism for All People. And so should I say Shabbat Shalom? Would that be a good thing to say this morning right on?

Sounds like a great way to start. Shabbat Shalom. It is. So I have to, just to whet my audience's appetite, I have to say you have a YouTube video that I saw that was a six-year-old's explanation on shuvah. That was just like, oh my goodness, everybody needs to hear this. And I hope you could kind of, because I don't know that our listeners would know what shuvah is, if you could kind of explain what that is, and just so that our listeners would go, man, this is going to be worth listening to today. Absolutely. So shuvah is, it could be translated as repentance or returning, that when we make mistakes or if we wrong someone, shuvah is the process that we can go through to make that right.

And it also includes when we make mistakes between us and God or between us and our true selves. Right. Okay.

And so what do you— Would you like to hear the six-year-old explanation? I love it. I know. Oh, absolutely.

Fantastic. So I heard this from someone I knew many years ago who had heard it from his six-year-old brother, and it's essentially, the teaching is that we have a string that connects us to God. And when we make a mistake, or that same string connects between our hearts as well, when we make a mistake, it's like that string breaks. And so the process of repenting or returning or apologizing or doing that inner work to get back into connection, it's like tying that string, those two broken ends, back together. And what happens when we break a string and we tie it back together?

The knot means that the distance between the two ends is now shorter. The actual process of breaking and then repairing and reconnecting, it brings us not just back to where we were before, but even closer to God, even closer to our beloveds, even closer to ourselves. And that's the true meaning of tuvah and repentance in that sense is not returning back to neutral, but actually growing through that opportunity to heal.

Yeah. And you said in the video, and I think it's so true, that it's not only that way with God, but it's that way in other relationships. Because I can't tell you the number of people that we fell out of fellowship for whatever reason, and then when we were able to actually reach that point where we retied the knot, we were closer than ever.

Because, I don't know, it just works that way. Absolutely. If two people are willing to go there and be open and honest and vulnerable and keep love between them, the process of having that fracture, that mistake, can be tremendously healing. And you know you have a real friend, for example, not when you can just have good times together, but when you can go through the bad and work through it. And that's a deeper level of friendship. That's just beautiful. Again, I'm so excited to hear about Embodied Kabbalah, but also today we have, and I'm hoping I get your name right, I think it's Jeannie Rodriguez. Am I saying that right, Jeannie?

Yes, that's correct. Okay. And sort of a tragic story that you wrote on.

It says, bride killed on honeymoon, but hope survives. Like, wow. Yes. And this had to do with your daughter-in-law, I guess.

Yes, yes. Crystal was her name. And the book I wrote was When Hope Met Hopelessness. And it was an incredible time as far as when Crystal was dating my son, Victor. And we loved him like a daughter. And they went on their honeymoon. And the day before coming home, they decided to parasail together. And there was a malfunction, equipment malfunction, and they fell 80 feet, and they hit the water, and she died. And my son, it was in the beginning, they weren't sure if he'd survived.

And after six weeks of being in intensive care, he had been medevaced from Bahamas to Florida on to California. But it was such a catastrophic loss. Oh, yeah. So you can see, we are loaded for bear today on Kingdom Pursuit. And so I know you guys may not be familiar, but I always have to tell my jokes, and I have to give my listeners the riddles. So you've got to just sit through this and endure somehow.

But I'm sure you will. Oh, I do love this. I absolutely do. And I'm so grateful for you listening today.

And we have some really, really good, interesting riddles. So as I was thinking about the bride that was killed on the honeymoon, I hope you don't find this tasteless, but it's kind of where I went, OK? So speaking of bride, right? And feel free to answer this rabbi or genie, whichever one. You know, why should guitar players always marry guitar players? Have you thought about that? Is it so they can be in harmony with each other? Close, close.

So they can be in one accord. That's very close. Yes, I like that. And next up on the hit parade, why did the man play Sweet Caroline? You don't remember? Sweet Caroline, right?

Those of us who live in the Carolinas love it. And, you know, when he proposed, that's what he played. You know why he would do that? That's pretty exciting. It never seems so good. I love that.

I love it. Well, the real deal is he wanted to show off his Neil Diamond. And last, but certainly not least, why should you always go to the marriage ceremony?

If you run into one of these where there is a marriage ceremony between the TV repairman of some kind, you always want to go to that marriage ceremony. Do you know why, Christian? You got any ideas? Have no idea.

Ah, how about you, Jeannie? You got any ideas? No.

The reception is going to be awesome. I'm just telling you. All right. So, you know, at the end of the shenanigans, we'd actually have a riddle that you could call in and win. And oh my goodness, we have a prize for you today. If you can answer this riddle.

Okay, here it goes. So if you go to a Jewish wedding, which I highly recommend, they're spectacular, you will note that the bride will encircle the groom actually seven times. And I'm kind of guessing, I don't know, that, you know, just to make sure the groom doesn't feel cornered. You might get that later anyway. So with that, you know, which book of the Bible or the Torah, depending on how you like to say that, which book of the Bible do you find that the bride encircles the groom?

What book of the Bible would you find a verse on the bride encircles the groom? If you have the answers to that, guys, tell them what they'll win. They're going to win a pair of tickets to Wait Forest versus North Carolina, Tuesday, February 7. We're not kidding. We have Carolina tickets.

So Wait Forest, Carolina, like, oh, my goodness, you can go to that game. All you got to do and you might even have to turn to Google. I don't know what you might have to do to find it, but I promise you it's in the Bible.

The bride will encircle the groom. What book do you find that in? 866-348-7884. Of course, we're going to take the first caller.

866-348-7884, we would love for you to call in and win. And so, Rabbi, I love, love, love that verse. I won't tell what Bible, what verse it's in. Oh, well, we've got to go to a break. So when we come back, we're going to hear more from Rabbi Matthew Ponek.

I get it right. And Jeannie Rodriguez, as we are embodying Kabbalah, and we're going to find out about when hope met hopelessness. Stay tuned. So much more Kingdom Pursuits coming up.

You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the Kingdom. And we are beyond blessed today to have with us Rabbi Matthew Ponek.

Did I say it right that time? Rabbi Matthew Ponek. Ponek. Oh, my goodness.

My poor brain. And he's the author of Embodied Kabbalah, Jewish Mysticism for All People. I'm so excited to get into that, as well as Jeannie Rodriguez. And she is the author of When Hope Met Hopelessness. By the way, I should mention that both those books are available at KingdomPursuits.com. All you have to do is go there, and you can just click on the link to Amazon. And when you buy a book, okay, always remember to leave them a wonderful— I mean, people get so— You can imagine how God put it on their heart to write this book.

And so if you could give them a review on Amazon and that kind of thing, it means so much to that author. So I always like to mention that. But also, I would also mention, and how fun I have, Mitch is actually in Indiana this morning. So Mitch, you are on Kingdom Pursuits. Good morning.

Good morning. So what station in Indiana are you listening to? It is 106.5. Oh, cool.

I don't know for sure the letters of that, but that's the one I'm listening to this morning. Well, we thank you for doing that. So are you going to be able to come to the Carolina? It'll be worth it. I assure you, but it's okay. I don't know. I just like playing the research game. Well, I love it too.

So we will say, if you don't want those tickets, which is totally understandable, and I know somebody will, and so we'll just give it to the next caller, but we'll send you a special prize. Because if you have this answer, I'm going to be impressed. So I'm already knowing I'm going to be impressed because you called in Mitch. So, or what book of the Bible would you find that in? Joshua. Joshua.

That's interesting. Where do you find it in the book of Joshua? Joshua, I think it's right.

Okay. It talks about it being a symbolic show that he captured the heart of her beloved, just as Joshua captured the cry of Jericho by marching around it seven times. That is awesome. You know, that's not actually, there's two books in the Bible where it's mentioned then. And now you just taught me something. So it's, it's Joshua six.

What do you know? It does not lay it out for sure. But basically it says that rabbi Benjamin black, I think, and the complete, uh, guy to understand Judaism says that seven circuits stand for the seven times in the Bible, where it is written when a man takes a wife and the bride also symbolically shows that she has captured the heart of her beloved, just as Joshua captured the city of Jericho by marching around it seven times. Joshua six is all they put.

Well, he's right. Joshua six is, is definitely where they marched around Jerusalem seven times. However, and I'm going to give it, believe me, this is an awesome answer and I'm going to go look at Joshua six again, but there's actually another book in the Bible, which people could call in that wanted to the tickets, by the way. And we'll just throw that out there because if you can mention the Bible verse, where it actually mentions the bride encircling the groom, um, we'll give those two tickets to you as well. But thank you so much, Mitch, and we're going to send you out a book.

So I'm going to put you back on hold and they will get your information. And so I know rabbi that everybody, we don't want to go into the verse where it actually is mentioned, but I would love your take on that custom. Well, uh, the, the answer that was just given, uh, I would, uh, the word in Hebrew for that kind of answer that where he, this, uh, caller was looking it up is a drash.

It means a, an interpretation. And yes, there was a seven circles around Jericho, but the, the actual, if you want to find where a woman in circles, a man that is elsewhere, literally in, in the Bible, but there's lots of interpretations that are given. You can find seven in many places in the Bible. So the way that I like to connect it, which actually the rabbi who married me and my wife use that our wedding was that when you get married, it's, it's like you're creating a new world together.

And so the seven days of creation are symbolized in those seven circles. So that's for me personally, how I draw meaning from it and how I, when I've done, uh, when I've helped, uh, with a friend's wedding recently, that's the intention I was bringing into that as well. Oh yeah. You get to do that.

I hadn't thought about that. That's really, that's really, really cool. And that kind of is a need to introduction into Kabbalah because I imagine that there are a lot of our listeners that have never heard that word. Um, but I know that, that, that it's a significant part of your faith, right?

Yeah. So Kabbalah is a Jewish spiritual tradition that was written down for the first time about a thousand years ago, but likely had threads that go back, uh, even farther than that. And what it's really about is understanding that there are many layers of our world between us and God. It's not just sort of all physical, all spiritual.

Kabbalah understands there's a ladder or a spectrum and people who engage with Kabbalah, one of the main things that's going on there is they're finding a way to be a bridge between a spirituality and physicality to not just have an enriching spiritual life that's transcendent, but also to be bringing it back home into their relationships and into their, into their lives, into their work lives, the way they're treating others. And it's really to be a blessing in the world is, is, is the goal of that whole past. Right.

And which is exactly what we're supposed to be. I would agree. Yes.

I mean, it's exactly to bring light wherever and however we possibly can. So, you know, that's, that's, that's really cool. So in your book, like when you, when you wrote it, you know, what was the, I'm sure there was something that you're like, man, I can hardly wait till somebody reads this.

This is going to be awesome. What, what would that be? Well, there's, there are schools of thought and you can find this in different traditions within Judaism without that spirituality can be seen as something that's used to escape the world. And when I was very, when I was a lot younger on my own journey, I was a teenager and I had traveled to Israel and I was learning in a seminary there without, unfortunately at that time, I didn't have much mentorship or guidance. And I, I, I found that I was, you know, I had a natural ability to have blissful moments and prayer and study and things like that. But what I didn't know how to do was keep my feet on the ground. And I, I actually got overwhelmed when I was there.

I mean, pretty dramatically. And it was, it was quite fracturing and difficult. And it took me a couple of years to really figure out what had gone on. And through that journey, I ended up kind of moving outside of my own tradition and looking elsewhere. And eventually I realized that there was this whole world of grounded spirituality that's kind of was created for people like me that we're transcending wasn't the hard part. The hard part was staying balanced.

The hard part was staying in relationship in a healthy way to this world. So embodied Kabbalah are specifically teachings from the last thousand years of Jewish spiritual writings that focus on the notion that it's really about integration. And it's really about that balance that we are not fulfilling of spiritual life until we can find a connection point between the world beyond and the world that's right here.

And so that that's a big part of it. But the other part, it's been subtitled Jewish mysticism for all people. A lot of these texts have not been translated before into English.

And certainly you can translate a text, but they're very symbolic and metaphorical. And so I've commented on it to open it up to people of any background who have an interest in this kind of spiritual pursuits. So I feel like really just opening the gates widely to this really amazing and quite esoteric or hidden tradition for a long time. And those are the two big motivations for why I'm putting it out there. That is wonderful.

Absolutely. Yeah, because it's your journey. And so that's so practical with how God came along and helped you. Now you're going to show others that way, which is exactly what happened with you too, Jeannie, right? Because apparently you were in a situation like, oh my goodness, I can't even imagine your own son is in critical condition.

He's lost his bride. And so, you know, I know our listeners are wondering what happened. Well, it was incredible how not only the church came alongside. In fact, word got out so fast about Christo's death, within an hour, my pastor called me and told me he was having his assistant get his tickets to the Bahamas. And a friend came by and put a wad of money in my hand and told me that she knew we would need it. Friends started coming by and praying and crying with us and friends did our laundry. So we kept clean clothes for the trip. And one of the incredible things was when we were in the Bahamas, you know, they don't have the same equipment as the United States.

We are spoiled. When I was in the ICU, I looked around and the beds were rusted and there was like, a fly trap, you know, the kind that the flies stick to. Right, the fly tape. Yeah, that's it. That's a little disgusting. I understand.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying? But the doctors were so compassionate, the nurses were wonderful, but they got to the point where they're giving him blood, but they can't find where, you know, obviously there's internal bleeding, but they didn't have CT, you know, CAT scans. And so they suggested you to try to, you know, uh, medevac them. Medevac are very expensive.

So the closest would be Florida. It was going to cost almost $10,000. Let me tell you, Robbie, we are not rich people, but we had a credit card and we said, you know what?

We'll just charge it. But right before I remembered one of the, uh, my friends who I worked, I worked for the church, Bayside Church, and she had come by and she said, people are calling saying they want to help and donate money. So I called her up to say, you know, I don't know how much people have given. Oh, we're going to have to, we're going to have to leave there with how did God pay for the helicopter ride? And when we come back, we're going to hear more and, oh, we've got some, I can hardly wait for the next couple of segments of Kingdom Pursuits. I want to mention again, go to KingdomPursuits.com to find these books, both Embodied Kabbalah, as well as Hope, When Hope Met Hopelessness. We'll be right back. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom. And I just want to be clear, I'm really like shocked that somebody has not gotten these Wake Forest Carolina tickets.

Like these are gold. All right. And I don't know if you caught it that that the caller didn't get them. So there is a book in the Bible where it's specifically mentioned. And so all you have to do is tell us in which book of the Bible does the bride encircle the groom? 866-348-7884, 866-344, truth is the number to call in and when, because you may know that nobody has ever called in in the history of Kingdom Pursuits of the 18 years or whatever I've been doing this.

It was originally called Robbie's Hobbies back years ago. My producers are looking at me going, yeah, nobody's ever not won. So this is not hard. If you want these tickets, make it happen. I'm telling you, you're going to win.

866-348-7884. So Rabbi, one of the things I would love you to speak to, because I feel like so many Christians misunderstand this concept. And I think it's really, really helpful to understand the concept. It's really helpful to me, and so I would love for you to try to explain it from your perspective, is that a lot of Christians believe that when they hear the idea of 613 mitzvot or commandments, that the Jewish people do this out of a legalistic type of thing, like they do this because they feel obligated and all these kind of things. But what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I would love to get the correct view, is that actually there's a point of communion in doing what God asks you to do. And so just like what you're talking about through Kabbalah, that there's a connection, it's that string that you're talking about, that as you're actually doing what God asks you to do, that there's a connection between you and Him in the process of that, right? Absolutely, and I'll say two things, one is that Jewish people today, there's a real diversity of practice, and so I can speak on behalf of myself and maybe people like me, but there's many different understandings on this particular item, and how much people are beholden versus how much it's, you know, these are choices for how to live a good life, that kind of thing, but the teaching to me that really spells it out the most clearly, a teacher from a few hundred years ago basically took a word from Aramaic and said, this word is related to the word mitzvah, the word mitzvah can often be translated as commandment, but the word tavtah in Aramaic, very similar word, in its root it means attachment or connection, so he, exactly like you were saying in fact, Robbie, that he saw the mitzvah to the commandments as opportunities to connect with God, their inroads, their connection points, you know, if someone's in a marriage, they try to, you know, still go on dates and try to find time to connect, and you know, it's partly there are obligations involved in a marriage of course, but there's also, these are all connection opportunities, so when I think about something like Shabbat, or like studying scripture, studying the Torah, studying the Bible or any other text, I do it out of love primarily, I'm not worried about fear of punishment or following, you know, things incorrectly like that, these are opportunities to connect, so that's how I understand it, and there's a lot of people I guess who have alignment to my, to this point of view today that I'm articulating, but again, I can't speak on behalf of the whole group.

Darrell Bock No, I absolutely love that, because the point of, if you do love somebody, right, you're gonna do what you know they want you to do, I mean like, or you, you know, you're gonna be willing to, you know, lay down your life and whatever reason, you know, to some extent to do that, including, and I love taking the time to read the Torah, because there you connect with God in such beautiful, amazing ways, and that's happened, as clearly as you've had an opportunity to share and write this book, and I know that you, Jeannie, have experienced that as well, but we have Scott, who's in Winston-Salem, and he wants to win these tickets, and we want him to win, so Scott, you are on Kingdom Pursuits, good morning! Scott Well thank you, Scott, I'm so glad, so what book of the Bible would you find that the bride encircles the groom? Scott Well, I'm saying Ephesians, because they mention that a lot, Ephesians, the bridal this, the bridal that. Darrell Bock Well you're right about that, so we're gonna give you the ticket.

Scott There's no doubt that the bride is mentioned in the book of Ephesians, I think if I'm not mistaken, the bride's probably mentioned in, out of the 66 books, at least 66. So absolutely right on that, but however, just so that those wondering what Robbie was gonna say, and I know the rabbi Matthew knows this as well, it's in the book of Jeremiah, where it says that actually the Lord is gonna do a new thing, the bride encircles the groom, and so it's a spectacular picture from my standpoint, and so Scott, you win, and enjoy the game, buddy! Scott Go deep! Darrell Bock Go deep! All right, all right, so I know our audience is also just sitting there on the edge of their seat like, oh my goodness, what happened, how did your son get it paid for, Jeannie? Jeannie Yes, well, in fact, as it turns out, the church, enough people donated that it actually comes in 9800, but the most incredible thing is how the community came around, because the story was on the front page of the Sacramento Beat, and the Automobile Association of Greater Sacramento saw it and wanted to do something for them, and they ended up paying for the, you know, it was four and a half weeks later, a total of six weeks, where they medevaced him from Florida to California, and that was $25,000.

Darrell Bock Isn't that amazing? You know, I don't know if you're familiar with my story at all, Jeannie, but I was in a horrible car accident and almost lost my left leg and had all sorts of interesting things along the lines of what your son went through. I was diagnosed with cancer that same fall, and as God came to my rescue in so many different ways, one of the things I know he was teaching me is how much I'm loved, because there were so many people that poured out, you know, that I, and honestly, I never would have done all that people did for me. I don't, you know, that was what just got my attention, like my Sunday school class came out and built a wheelchair ramp on the back of my house, and all these people came to the emergency room when I came in at one o'clock in the morning, and in fact, the hospital said, what church do you go to, because man, when you guys show up, you bring a crowd, you know? And I'll never forget all these things that happened, but you really, I can see it is the point of hope, because God teaches us in the time of crisis, man, he's got resources, right?

Yes, yes, and even though we were, keep in mind, we had spent eight days in the Bahamas and then headed back to Florida and was there for like over four weeks, people were sending packages to Victor to keep his spirits up as far as his, and they got, he loved the Oakland A's, and they had one of the pictures called him, Ryan Reynolds called him, it was incredible. I mean, it was incredible, we couldn't believe the things that were going on that really lifted his spirits, people doing fundraisers. So I gotta ask the same question I asked Matthew, you know, because I want people to buy your book because it's going to be great, all right? So when you were writing the book, and again, don't spill the candy, just tell them why they need to read it, like what did you write about that you can hardly wait till people see this? Well, you know, in fact, there was a few reasons why I wrote it, it took me years to even get to the point of writing it, but I'm one of those who lost a loved one, that I want them to know it's okay to grieve, that it's a process that lingers, and you can't speed it up no matter how much you try, but they need to sit in it for however long, and it's okay to cry, and it's okay to be mad at God, you know, he's big enough and strong enough, and he can handle it, but for them to know that he's always with them, even when they're angry with him. Oh, that's, yeah, yeah, and you know, oh, I got a great question for you Rabbi, when we come back along those lines, we only have a short period of time, but what a treasure it's been to be with you guys today, we're going to be right back, one more segment of Kingdom Pursuits. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the Kingdom, and again we have poster children for that today, and no doubt we have Rabbi Matthew Penock, every time you make a mistake and we talk about it, our relationship grows closer, I'm thankful for it. Okay, and Jeannie, thank you for not just, you know, whatever, anyway, he is the author of Embodied Kabbalah, which is there, Kingdom Pursuits, as well as Jeannie Rodriguez with the bride, excuse me, when hope met hopelessness, but anyway, Rabbi, as she was talking about this, and I would love to speak to you about this, is that grief is a process and it takes a long time, and there's a couple verses in the Song of Solomon, and those who know me well know that's my favorite book in the Bible, and I know I'm drossing out like crazy here, but I just would love your view, is that when she says that our bed is green, right, she says the beams of our house are cedar and the rafters are cypress, that those trees grow really slowly because of that, their rings are very close together, it makes them phenomenally strong and phenomenally able to take on weather and all those kind of things, and it speaks to the process of your faith, that if you grow steadily and over a long period of time, you end up like a tree which is righteous, right, that goes up, you know, no doubt, and those close rings give you the strength that you can only get, you don't get it by just jumping in there and growing real fast, do you, Rabbi? Yeah, absolutely, and in fact, I would say jumping in there and trying to go real fast usually creates a backlash, because everything happens in its own time, in its own season, and it can be overwhelming to feel like something's happening really slowly, that can be very painful, grief does take a long time, one of the teachings about the Shabbat, about the Jewish Sabbath, which I think is fairly universal, is that we can, like if someone is walking with a limp, for example, on Shabbat, imagine if that person could walk perfectly straight, that yes, they would never give up trying to walk straight, but if they never got that taste of what it's like to cross the finish line, then they might give up hope, so the slow journey which is essential for our integrated natural development as human beings, we can also find times when we can find wholeness within that and punctuate that, whether it's on one day a week or it's just moments of peace and prayer that actually we need both, feelings like we're going at the right pace and building those rings layer by layer, and also feelings like the world is beautiful just the way it is and I am whole and it is whole, and together that makes a really sustainable path. You know, that is absolutely beautiful, because that idea of Shabbat is taking a rest and reflecting, right, on what God's done for, you know, this week.

If we didn't do it, you know, you just passed on the opportunity to put a ring down, right? Yeah, and to tap into all that's right in the world and all that is there to be celebrated. The book of Psalms, chapter 100, verse 2 says, you know, serve God with joy, and I hear stories that both of you and Jeannie were telling about having people visiting other people who are sick.

I mean, that's one of the commandments that we have is visiting the sick, but it can be an incredibly heart-opening, helpful, joyful occasion, and so I think it's about finding the way to bring love and joy into all of those moments. It really is. It just is, and you know that's the heart of God, I mean, it's just, right, I think it's fascinating the word God in Hebrew is, like, very similar to the word love, right?

Well, yeah, I guess if you were to try and pronounce the unpronounceable name, it would sound pretty close, actually. Yeah, it just, it's really a beautiful thing, and I'm so glad, I cannot tell you how thrilled I am. I got a chance to talk with you today, Rabbi and Jeannie, but we just got a minute or two left. Can you give us a nice word for our audience to make sure they go out and get Embodied Kabbalah? Yeah, absolutely, if you're looking to find a treasure trove that has yet to really hit the world, all about finding these wonderful connections between people, dealing with sadness and grief, but also learning how to celebrate in a really whole way, and living a balanced life, Embodied Kabbalah is an accessible tool for your library.

Again, it's at KingdomPursuits.com, but you can just look it up under Embodied Kabbalah, pretty easy to find. And Jeannie, how about you? What's something you wanted to get said today you didn't get a chance to say? Well, as my book title, When Hope Met Hopelessness, I was truly hopeless in the midst of our devastating loss. But with God's grace and timing, I rediscovered his hope. And I wanted people to know that eventually their pain will go. And one day they will find themselves smiling as they think of a sweet memory of years past. And whether they are currently smiling or still sobbing, God is there with them, and that he hears their cries and invites them to lean into him for comfort.

Oh, absolutely. You know, that is a remarkable thing that your testimony, right? What you have experienced shows so many people. So thank you for both of you for the courage to step in there and do what you felt God led you to do to write these books. And so for those of you listening, if God is telling you to go buy these books, you just go to KingdomPursuits.com and click on that. And we're just grateful that you're listening. We are so grateful you're listening. You got so much truth coming at you. You got Encouraging Prayer, followed up by Masculine Journey, and then Man Up with Nikita Kolov, The Russian Nightmare, he's coming at you at 1230. So much truth coming at you on the Truth Network. Thanks for listening.