This is the Truth Network. Kingdom Pursuits, where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion. Together we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into kingdom pursuits.
Now, live from the Truth Booth, your host, Robbie Dilmore. Wow, how fun today on Kingdom Pursuits. God has given us, and even though He does him. Continues to amaze me at the amazing gifts that we have for you. Today, first up, we have Dr.
Douglas Small. He is actually the founder of an amazing Concept website ministry called Prayers at the Heart or Path. I like that. If you shorten that P-A-T-H, think about it. Prayers at the Heart.
And so welcome, Doc.
Well, thank you, Robbie, for having me. Yeah, yeah. I am man, when you go to your website, it would appear that literally, um, you know, due to what the work you do with college ministries, the prayers that are going forward, it it's showing how m just thousands are coming to Christ, right? I think this year, based on our partnerships and I look across denominations that we're on track to see about 700,000 people come to Christ. We were hoping.
For a million. But that is still a forty percent jump. in what we saw last year. That is really quite amazing. Just on 13 college campuses, we've seen 130,000.
kids come to uh Christ.
Well well, I say 13 college camps is in four cities, if you include four additional cities.
So they're they're really quite an amazing thing that's happening. And I one of the things we're trying to do is just quantify that.
Well, one thing's for sure, that should whet your appetite to listen to what God is doing here through Kingdom Pursuits. And then, second up, we have Dr. Sean Cordopasi. And he is the author of a book along those lines. It's called The Way Ahead.
And so The Way is a significant idea just to begin with, but The Way Ahead, I love it, Doc. Oh, thank you, sir. I'm so happy to be here and to be talking about the Christian guidebook I wrote on Jesus Christ and living today in a noisy, divided spiritual age. I didn't write it because I had all the answers, but wrestled with the questions before being reborn in 2017. And so I found uh My path, and I try to impart this in the book, was seeking a deeper Clearer, more courageous faith in Jesus, and who's fully God, fully man, crucified, risen, and forever our Lord.
Okay. Oh well, that's fascinating. Since I know you're a doctor Mm-hmm. It you know, most Guest that we have with a doctorate, or it's a seminary degree, what is your degree in? A theology, sir?
Oh, it's theology as well.
So, since 2017, I guess it's been enough years I'm too old to. That you were able to do that. That's amazing.
Well done. That's awesome. And so I'm excited to hear more about that book. Getting back to prayer at the heart again. Dr.
Small, if you could kind of, for our listeners, give us an idea. Essentially, The organization, how does it work?
Well, our goal, we started four years ago in Kansas. Literally at the heart of the nation. Uh we had uh eight teams. One came from the north, south, east and west. One team circled the nation.
One team came from South Korea. It was the first of eighty five teams that have come from South Korea to pray here. for spiritual awakening. The teams before they got to Kansas Stopped at every border, every little town and hamlet. They did 350 prayer rallies before they got to Kansas.
Why Kansas? We went to the geographic center of the nation. not to Washington, not to any bright spot, to just say to God in a cow pasture, there's a little park that marks literally the geographic center of the nation. The stops for your lot and your house are drawn from that stake. In the center of that field.
And so we stood there and we said, God, we've come for your eyes only, about 3,000 people representing every state. We desperately need a spiritual awakening. Then the goal was to go to every state and every county and every city. until there were thousands and thousands of continual prayer rallies outside, just crying out. to say God Washington cannot save us.
We need We need something on the order of a whit feel. Jonathan Edwards visitation. That gave the nation birth. It took a great awakening to give the nation birth.
Now we need one.
Now we need one to save it. Yeah, it's amazing stuff. And so how cool. And you're going to hear today through today's show lots of ideas that came out of that original meeting and how Again, prayer at the heart, especially for such a time as this, and our 250th anniversary is coming alive. And so, getting back to the way ahead.
Uh Dr. Kordaposi, can you give us just an overview of the book to begin with? Absolutely. It's a Christ centered guide for spiritual resilience. I also have a federal career in resilience as well.
So I was able to sort of integrate that all in. But I we think through faith The doubt uh scripture science and the trials of our time. And what I do in every of the twenty-one chapters and five sections that comprise the book was it's all meant to lead uh believers back to Christ. That's the goal. That's fascinating.
So The way you put that, to lead believers back to Christ. not necessarily Um people that aren't believers.
Well, I'd like to get them too, but I'm more concerned with. I'd like to give you the why, if that's okay. Yeah, please. I had a mentor, he's Baptist. Um he was you know, he he always said, Oh, yeah, crisis.
You know, he's a great man. He's you know, good moral teacher. Uh, but when I asked him, well, you know, is he divine too? Is he did he? you know, fulfill all the things that were said in the scriptures.
He said, you know, hey, not so much. I don't believe that. And so I was taking this guy. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Oh, wow. active in his church, all all of that good stuff. And, um, You know, so I was taken aback. I was like, oh, well, I just took in seminary, I had just taken a Christology course. And I was like, oh, what's going on here?
And so I started looking into it, and there were a lot of surveys by evangelicals. who were saying, Hey, we you know, we good teacher, good morals, uh, all that, but uh a a sizable percentage didn't believe that he was divine. And so I said, Oh, that's That's unacceptable. I need to write a book. For believers that are tired, discouraged, worn down, I need to point them back to Christ and give the evidence and all of it.
why they need a guidebook. Having said that, I mean, if non-believers were to pick up the book and read it and develop a personal relationship, I would love that. But. But my point is to really fortify Christ on all dimensions. That's beautiful.
I think that's fascinating. And then God put it on your heart, and then He gave you. Um the guidebook. And so I can hardly wait to get deeper into that. idea.
And and so I'm sure doctor Small Uh you've seen that kind of faithlessness within the body as well. And I think I think the doctor's right. Only 62% of pastors, about the same number of parishioners, believe that Jesus rose from the dead. About 12% of youth pastors have a biblical worldview, about the same for youth pastors, but I think it's 37% of teaching pastors. 42% of senior or lead pastors.
4% of the businesses editors at the church have a biblical worldview. Ad Barna says now at the number of Christians in America. That have a truly biblical worldview, maybe as low as 4%. It was 9% just a few years ago. It's dropping precipitously.
So whatever awakening we have in America, It can't be a spiritual buzz. It can't be a feeling. It has to have a robust theology to it. like the first great awakening. And that's what we're missing.
revivals and awakenings and everybody's running to them here and there. But there are spiritual buzz and it's fluff. I'm a Pentecostal, but I'm weary of all the fluff. I'm weary of all the weird stuff. I'm really wanting to see us come back to something that is animated by the Spirit, but tethered to the Scripture.
Well, we've got to go to a break. You can see we're loaded for bear today on Kingdom Pursuits. We'll probably play some shenanigans here in a minute. when we come back, so stay tuned a whole lot more coming up on Kingdom Pursuits. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com.
Um Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits where we hear from How God takes Your passion and uses it to build the kingdom so blessed today to have with us Dr. Douglas Small. He's the founder of Prayer at the Heart. and Dr. Sean Cordopasi, the author of The Way Ahead.
But as often as the case in the second segment, you know, we get to play shenanigans. Dr. Small, you got to play this not too long ago, I think, with us. for the first time. And so doctor Cordopasse, this is just you know, our listeners are excited because they get a chance to call in and win to guess some of my somewhat dad jokey riddles that we have.
And so I think speaking of heart, And now the fun begins. Oh, I've been waiting for a long time. to unveil this next riddle. It's a very exciting one, Nick. I know you're excited.
Dr. Small, Dr. Kordoposty, if your heart lives in the danger zone, if your heart lives in the danger zone, what should you change all your computer passwords to? You know, you got a heart, it's living in the danger zone. What should you change all your computer passwords to?
This one's actually quite tricky, but hilarious. Got any ideas? I don't know. Dr. Corposi.
I have a clue of redemption, maybe? You're going to love this. Change all of your computer passwords to Kinney. Because then you'll have Kenny logins. And you'll be the highway to the danger zone.
Just saying. All your computer passwords change to Kenny and you'll have Kenny logins. All right, so this one's a little easier. Why don't your heart, your lungs, and your intestines get mixed up? Why don't your heart, your lungs, and your intestines get mixed up?
You guys are doctors. You should be able to get. I was thinking the same thing there to the doctor. Uh I don't know.
Well, they're organized. They're organized. Organized organized. I think God has something to do with that too. I like that one.
Yeah. Here? And so here this one's a little Out there too. But anyway, why do attorneys' secretaries file half-heartedly? Why do attorneys, secretaries file?
Half-heartedly. What do you think? Um Dr. Small, you got it? I'll tell you what, I don't know where you find these.
Where do you go to find these? I ask that question all the time, too. God gives me a topic like heart, and then I just start to unravel these. It's fun. All kinds of fun.
So. If you're an attorney secretary, you know, and you've got a lot of filing to do, you're kind of just going through the motions. Oh, going through the motions. Oh, that's clever. Yeah, that believe it.
So you knew at the end of those shenanigans, you would have a chance to call in and win today. And so. You know, this is your chance to call it with your answer to today's riddle. And so the Christian's heart. I don't know if you did this, but it could be intense.
That's because God tabernacles with you just saying.
So, your heart could be intense.
So, What was in the Ark of the Covenant? You might remember the Ark of the Covenant that was in the tabernacle later on in the temple. What was in that that is also in your heart? 866-348-7884 to call in and win. What was in the Ark of the Covenant that also happens to be in your heart?
Heart, 866-348-7884. And if they can guess that riddle, Nick. Tell them what they win. Absolutely. Yes, Shabina winning a prize from Arcana Pursuits Prize Vault.
We have back scratches, date of work calendars, and action comic Bibles that you are able to win if you know the answer to Robbie's riddles. Give us a call at 866-348-7884. Yeah, when he says these action Bibles, like I think I'm trying to think of the name of the ministry that prints them. These are thick, beautiful teenager Bibles. They're not really, they're illustrated similar to comics, but they are absolutely gorgeous and a real tool if you want a teenager to begin to embrace the Word of God.
And those are our action Bibles. But again, my personal favorite will always be the Kingdom Pursuits official gospel back scratcher. Yeah. They're bamboo now. We've improved them.
And they come with the beads, green, you know, blue.
So you can share the gospel as you're scratching somebody's back only available through Kingdom Pursuits Riddles. 8663487884. Essentially, what was in the Ark of the Covenant? that is also in your heart. You might remember what it was.
We would love to hear your views. Um getting back to Doctor Small, um You know, I'd love What you guys are doing, and I see the beauty of what both of you are doing. The prayer is so huge, and the idea of a great awakening and And that's the beauty of the the name of your website, the slash the name of your it starts out with that word prayer, because prayer is kind of where your faith has a chance to interact with God, exactly. It's the center of everything we do. You could say, but.
Praying, you consecrate your life by praying, you feel the Spirit by praying. Healing comes by prayer, wisdom, decisions. The whole Christian life, God has determined it in his own sovereignty. to dispense grace through prayer. and to empower faith through grace in prayer.
It is, you know, he is no Christian who does not pray, Luther said. every great, every great man of God. is known for his life of prayer. But we don't understand that. We think We think prayer is telling God what he ought to do.
We think prayer is about acquisition of things. when prayer is actually the context by which he transforms our lives. And A nation. You know, the beautiful thing about what you just said Dr. Small is.
I have a podcast I do with a rabbi in Jerusalem who's actually an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. Uh for real, not of not a um a Christian, but definitely a man of God in his own way. And it's called Robbie and the Rabbi, as you might imagine. Nonetheless, we're talking about this week about Pentecost, because Pentecost just happened a few weeks ago. And he can give you details about Pentecost that literally are mind blowing, especially when you understand the Hebrew behind them.
But one of the ideas that he had, which is beautiful, in Pentecost that relates to what you just described, It's the first offering that begins the idea of the counting of the Omer, which is what Pentecost is. or the first fruit. is a barley harvest And the barley harvest to that culture at the time, they used barley to feed animals. And it leads up to the final harvest, which would be on the day of Pentecost when they celebrate the first fruits. And in that one, you are supposed to make an offering of wheat.
So, the difference being that humans eat wheat, and what's this gigantic difference between a human? And an animal is simply potential. A potential with a relationship with God, a potential to become more spiritual and less. Animalistic. And so in even in this beautiful holiday, We see this potential to have this relationship with God, but it happens through prayer, right, Doc?
Right. And I love the rabbis come up with things the rest of us just don't see. They come up with little nuances and shadows that but really deepen the meaning of a of a of a passage. Pentecost is a harvest festival. It is an invitation to know God.
It's an invitation to come to the altar, which ultimately becomes a table. It's to taste his spirit, to know him. and to have him not from the outside in changing our life. But from the inside out, transforming our life. Everything changes on Pentecost.
It really is. It's not just a continuation of Israel. It really is the birth of something brand new. the birth of the church. And something spiritual, obviously, right?
I mean, you can't miss it. Yeah, the Holy Spirit, like, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's so beautiful. And so, Dr. Cordopasi, as you listen to all that, I'm interested in your thoughts.
Um Yeah, I mean, um Since we're talking about faith, you know, it's not a feeling, it's something You know, we need to know what we believe and why. I believe that Christians today, I've been a millennium myself, um, the other They're passionate for the truth. Uh but they struggle with life moving so fast. You know, everything's over scheduled, nonstop screens, constant noise.
So I recommend, you know, as a Christian, we slow down, silence the mind, and really listen. Because we're all on our own unique path. We need to make that choice: get baptized and follow Christ. Yeah, I love that because as we slow down and listen, which is essentially you're listening for God. And when you hear God, that's prayer.
Because that's the connection Um where you begin to have that relationship, it is a relationship. That that is not You know, like you say, like they sang in a great song. It's more than a feeling. If you thought about that, might be a great theme song for you. Because it is.
And I'll never forget one of the when I you know, I came to Christ later in life, Doc, and I was a car salesman, as many know, as I'm the Christian car guy. And My wife drugged me to this church that I did not necessarily want to attend. And the very first sermon I heard at a church that I anticipated getting bored out of my mind.
Well, you know, if I go to this, it's not going to be good. Instead, this pastor starts out with the idea. He says, If God is really God, You know, I don't know why you just jabber on in prayer because he already knows what's going on. He said, you know, you got two ears and one mouth. Do the math, right?
You're supposed to listen twice as much as you speak in prayer. And as he was speaking, and this idea of prayer that he unveiled to me was what Dr. Small was talking about: that this is God sharing with us, not us telling him all he needs to do. It's an opportunity to push into a relationship with something that's absolutely more than a feeling.
So we're going to be right back. I'm expecting calls about what's in your heart. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build the kingdom. And what a show we have for you today with Dr.
Douglas Small, the founder of Prayer at the Heart, and Dr. Sean Cordopasi, the author of The Way. Ahead. And so, you know, it's kind of neat for me to have Ah. two gentlemen that are so passionate about God got so much invested in it.
And so You know. Dr. Cortopasi, I'm very curious. Always I've found when God puts me on some type of a project like writing a book, which I haven't done.
Okay. I actually have written several, but I never have felt called to actually publish it.
So Um obviously you were. And uh so I'm I'm fascinated What surprised you along the way? You know, as you were doing your research and whatever, what did God teach you that you did not see coming? Writing a book, especially a Christian non-fiction guide book.
Sounds good at first. I'm going to admit, it was one of the most challenging things I've ever done in my life. especially working with the first A, trying to find a publisher, Secondly, after getting a publisher, you know, all the all the rewrites and and all of the things that yeah, it's got to be polished, it's got to be um of the highest quality.
So Um Yeah, I mean it's just it's a major it's a major commitment, but um you know I wouldn't I wouldn't trade a second. I was able to use some of my seminary studies for some of the content, but that was only to get it started. And uh You know, I kind of learned at the end that, you know, my writing was even getting better towards the end of the book and the process, I guess. And Yeah, but let's just uh It's a major undertaking.
Well, so was there one particular chapter that kind of like, oh, wow, like, man. Yeah. Which one's the same? Yeah, chapter ten. My uh so my grandfather was a professor.
Um and uh he Work to reconcile science and faith, and that's a tough thing to write about, especially if you have. Evangelical viewpoint, which I do. And so I was trying to write it in such a way that, you know, I just wanted to. Speak to um the evangelical community in such a way that it it sort of Pays respects to both the science and faith because I don't believe that they're enemies. I think truth is truth.
So that I really wavered over that chapter more than the others. Yes, sir. Yeah, and that's that when you dig into that particular part of the Bible. Um and you know God has a lot to show us on oh yeah. He's all about science.
That's he he invented it. Yes, sir. So, Dr. Small, what is that? How do you relate to that?
Well, if he's dabbling in science and faith, he's smarter than me. I'm just I'm just a simple prayer guy.
So uh I would like to, if I could, go back to his comment before. I think I think the stillness quiet idea, you know, though you were talking about the offerings. Uh Judaism, there are five basic sacrifices in the Old Testament, but the highest, the ultimate. is the peace or fellowship offering and in that offering The worshipper got back a portion. The altar became a table.
The slaughter place fed him. That's really an extraordinary idea. You really haven't prayed well until you pray yourself to peace. And you really can't pray. until you pray from peace.
Otherwise, you're just making noises at the noises of your own heart and calling it and calling it prayer.
So that whole idea of stillness and peace is such a critical uh critically important uh piece of prayer.
So, Dr. Small, have you been to Israel? About three times. I I've I thought about going to live over there, but I'm not spiritual or smart enough or rich enough to do that. It's a different world.
So have you been to Shiloh? No, I don't think that's a good idea.
So what you just described, right, was the fellowship of the peace offering. And Shiloh, or some people would refer to it as Shiloh. It doesn't matter to me. You know, we don't really know how it's pronounced. But nonetheless, that is where the last.
I have been there. I didn't get your pronunciation, yes.
Okay. And that is where the tabernacle was for sure. Like, there's a few places in Israel, it's a little suspect. I don't know exactly where, where was the Ark of the Covenant, which, by the way, you're still call us at 866-348-7884 if you know which one of those is in your heart. But When you go there you're going to see these mounds of pottery.
broken pottery sh you know shards. And so the last I've I've been there you know, a couple of times. The second time I was there, Yeah. the guide that was with us says, Oh, well You know, when you look at this pottery, he picked up a piece of it and he said, You know, the reason that we know that this is the location of that the tabernacle was is that when they gave these fellowship offerings, You know, they would bring back their offering, the part that they were going to eat that you talked about, which is fascinating, that whole aspect of that. They would bring it back in these earthen vessels.
And then they had actually been touched. By the fire of God, because the fire that was in the temple had been kindled since God sent the fire down. And their job was to keep that fire going all those years. And so these pieces of pottery had literally touched the fire. that God had brought for the Israelites, right?
and they were blackened by that fire. And then he said, Yeah. You can have some if you want. We have billions, and so just feel free to take some of these home, right? Oh man, I grabbed up a bunch of them, but it's an amazing thing to actually hold in your hand.
a piece that somebody was making this offering. that it it literally touched the f the the fire of God And as you said, these people that were faithful To offer this back then, we stand on their shoulders to some extent. They protected the word of God, they did all that, and here we are today. It's amazing stuff.
Okay. Incredible. Leviticus 6:23, the fire shall ever be burning, it shall never go out. Exactly. And it is, by the way, in your heart.
And you being, you know, I could tell, Pastor, that you have all the faith. Um To help people catch that fire because it happens through prayer. From my point of view, it's one thing to study, da-da-da-da-da, right? But when you actually feel it through prayer, It it it's more than a feeling. Right.
Right. The presence of God is real. And it's transforming, it's comforting and discomforting at the same time. You feel close to God, and yet you can never fully know Him. It never fully understands or grasped him.
There's a difference. Israel knew the acts of God, Moses knew the ways of God, and it's knowing. that deeper, mysterious side of God. that begins to catch fire in our heart and change us from the inside out. And the beauty of it is, like you said, is people are praying for this revival.
And what you're seeing happening on these college campuses. As a result of prayer, When you meet some of these teenagers, I mean, you meet some of these young people, some of them are in their 20s, it's fascinating. Their love for God, their love, because they've actually been touched. They've had that relationship that you were praying for right there at Prayer at the Heart, right? I had one encounter yesterday.
I had a group of people in my house, and we were talking about. How do we move forward with this movement? And we Did a distant interview with a young girl by the name of Abby, and her goal is to win all of New York City a few years ago. A few years ago, I mean, she got just radically saved her, and now they're There are baptisms on the beach at Caughty Island, and there's all kinds of things that are happening. And she is just so effervescent and unstoppable.
She just doesn't believe that anything is going to stop her. We're going to see all of New York come to Christ.
Well, that really happened. Almost in uh in eighteen forty uh 1856, 1857. with the New York revival. The whole city was stopping at noon for prayer. and a million people were saved as a result of that.
Well, that's exactly what we're hoping will happen again. Wow, and young ladies like that to get the whole City of New York to stop at noon. to to think about who actually provided Break. That's so awesome. That is so awesome.
Exactly. So, how exciting that you're joining us.
However, you're missing out on this chance for the back scratcher. Just saying 866-348-6. 7, 8, 8, 4. You know what was in the Ark of the Covenant. It's not that hard.
You know, Moses was told what to do with it. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Yeah. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion. And uses it to build the kingdom.
So fun today, really, really just honored to have with us Dr. Douglas Small, he's the founder of Prayer at the Heart, and Dr. Sean Cordipasi, he's the author of this book for believers. Like, I love this. I'd love His heart and what God put on his heart to to go after those that are looking to r to to you know jumpstart their faith it's called the way ahead again if you go to kingdom pursuits by the way kingdompursuits.com you're going to find we have both uh the book there you can order it right straight off amazon uh from kingdompursuits.com or you can go to amazon easy enough uh the way ahead's right there and of course the amazing website prayer at the heart the link is right there um which it's not hard to find just prayer at the heart but but anyway you can find it at kingdom pursuits again go to that website and oh my goodness get involved with what is going on with this movement of prayer at the heart and see what the resources are And for a lot of us in North Carolina, your number is a Charlotte number, right?
You guys are local. Yeah, we're actually we've got representatives in four or five states. Prayer wall of 40-some hours every week that are just praying for the nation. But I live As President Executive Director, I live here in North Carolina. Other leaders, one of our officers is in Oklahoma.
He's a denominational exec, another is in a charismatic Catholic. He's in Cleveland, Ohio, so we're really all over the place. Yeah, but I could tell you were a Qatar heel. I knew it all along. Anyway, absolutely beautiful.
So this segment is kind of short, I'm afraid. And so, Dr. Cortopasi, I want to give you an opportunity first to just share anything that you wanted to make sure you got said today that we have not had a chance to say. Absolutely. I appreciate it.
So, like I said, my book has several sections. Once once you've sort of picked up all the evidence and you you It's undeniable, honestly. And then, okay, so you've built an unwavering faith. That's great. But, and that is a wonderful thing.
But having said that, you know, that's not going to make life easy. We still need discernment. We have to constantly renew the spirit during phases of life with media distractions. cultural pressure and skepticism that's all around us.
So We have to keep going back to that foundation, which is Christ. He's the rock that we must build our lives around. Absolutely beautiful. Again, his book, The Way Ahead by Dr. Sean Cordopasi.
Easy enough to find on Amazon or go to kingdompursuits.com. What an opportunity to, you know, walk with Jesus through these writings. And then, again, Dr. Small, same offer. Like, what do you want to get said that we have not had a chance to say today?
So there's a wonderful guide on the prayer at the heart. Dot org website. Under resources. for a July the 4th Sunrise service. A July the 4th sunrise service.
It's an eight-page guide or so. It looks back at our nation's founding. It looks around where we are now. It looks up to God and it looks ahead. with faith possibilities what would happen If we had on the 250th anniversary of the nation, Another spiritual Awakening.
We're encouraging people to pull down that guide, print it off, use it personally. Use it as a family. Invite your neighbors. That's what Barbara and I are doing. We're inviting our neighbors to our house for a sunrise service.
There's cities that are doing it as a city sunrise service, congregations. We need to pray for an SON rise, a sunrise. over America. It's a unique idea. for July fourth or the July fourth weekend.
And I would just encourage people go to the go to the site Sign up and say, I want to be a part. of the Million Soul campaign praying for friends and family and loved ones that I know. to come to Christ before the end of this year. Yeah, it's so beautiful. And the idea of the sun coming up and they you know, so much happens in the east and you always see people facing east and whatever.
And the idea is simply it's a new day. Right, and the fourth of July would be the new day, right, on the 251st year.
Well, as you know, in the end In the Awakening movie, the real issue Ben Franklin asked about the crest in the back of Washington's chair. Right. Is the sun rising? Yes, you know that story. No, I do.
I I saw the movie and everybody, by the way, should see that movie. It's absolutely spectacular. But I no, you're exactly right. Is the sun rising on America or is it setting? And and beautifully God answered that for Ben.
But the real question for Ben in the movie, maybe I shouldn't just give you the spoiler alert, is is it rising or setting on Ben Franklin? Yeah. Didn't you think? Did you see that? Yes, you know, and there are scholars who said, I talked to one the other week, and he said, I'm absolutely convinced that in the end, he came to faith in Christ.
He tried to get Whitfield to go to Pennsylvania and make it an experiment as a Christian colony. Interesting. Wow, that's so neat what God did in those times, and He can do it in these. Again, as we grow our faith through books like. the way ahead and by opportunities to pray from the heart, prayer at the heart.
Um prayer at the heart is it.org, Doc? Thank you. Yeah, and again, we just are so blessed to have you guys on today. Thank you for that. And Thank you all so much for listening today.
You got a neat, encouraging prayer coming on with James Banks coming up next, and a whole lot more truth coming at you. I really appreciate you listening today. God bless.
