This is the Truth Network. Kingdom Pursuits, where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion. Together we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into kingdom pursuits.
Now, live from the Truth Booth, your host, Robbie Dilmore. Oh, what a treat. It is for me. I hope it will be for you as much as it will be for me. We have.
Somebody who shares a passion of mine. How does God take your passion and use it to build the kingdom? And some people have a passion for radio and for the truth network audience. I mean, it to say I have a passion for radio, okay, but you know. There's a lot of equipment in here, but that's not the big deal.
The big deal is you listening. Um you know, over the years I can't tell you the ways that I've been touched by the truth audience and their stories from calling in or letters that I received. You know, some of the most touching actually came from inmates. People that were incarcerated that had been encouraged by something, by a guest, or some phone call that we'd had. It's amazing the adventure that God has you on and the things that He continues to teach you if you.
or just obedient, right? God. Ask you to be on there.
So I have Mike Zwick. He's the host of If Not Forgot. And so Mike, you do, you share that passion. I do. And we were talking about when I got on the radio, but it's funny, back in, and I want to say it was what, 2019, I had a friend of mine named Tony Jackson, and we would always talk about the Lord.
And we actually met each other at a time where we were both going through a divorce. And so we kind of had that connection. We were going through that together. And one day I was kind of preaching to him over the phone. And he said, Mike, Mike, stop, stop.
I said, what is it? I was like, oh, he doesn't want me preaching to him. He goes, I want you to come on the radio tomorrow morning. And they have a show. It was, I think it was every Saturday morning.
They still do it. They did it. Nick did it this morning, right? Yeah. Every Saturday at 8 a.m.
And it was now try Jesus Ministries. 8:30. At 8:30. Nick's got, there you go. We're giving him a plug.
We're giving my friend Tony Jackson a plug. But every Saturday morning at 8:30, and I went on there, and they didn't know how it was going to go. I didn't know how it was going to go. And when we were done, they said, wow, that was really good. And I remember it was several months later, the beginning of 2020.
You talk about a time to start on the radio. It was like January of 2020, right before COVID. And I just felt the Lord was leading me to have my own radio show. And I ended up calling the Truth Network and I talked to Robbie. And he said, We've got a show for you at six o'clock in the morning.
And I was just about to do it. And a friend of mine out of where was he, Tennessee or no, Chuck Reese out of, he was out of Florida at the time. And he said, Mike, he said, you don't want to do that. He said, see what else they've got. And they ended up having a show for me at 8 a.m.
And on Saturday mornings, which is like prime time, man, perfect time. And I ended up doing it. And the rest was history, man. It was like the Lord just put all of these parts in place. And It's been one of the great joys of my life, you know.
And I you know Along those lines, I remember really well. Um You coming in. And we're talking about this radio show you're going to do. And I said, Mike, you need a name for your show, you know, something that people can relate to, something that would speak to what. your show is about.
And I said And you said, well, I don't know. We threw four or five times. I said, why don't you go pray about it? Ask God. And and you hadn't been gone maybe an hour or two.
Mm-hmm. And you called me and you said. Robbie, God gave me the name. It's awesome. And you told me it's if not for God.
And I went. Wow, Mike, that is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's funny because my friend Chuck Reese, you had mentioned originally, you said, do the Michael Zwick show.
I was like, all right, you know, I didn't know what to do. And I talked to Chuck, the guy who gave me the time to do. And I said, what do you think? He said, no. He said, nobody knows you, Mike.
He said, no offense. I mean, you're not like David Jeremiah or anybody like that. He said, but you've got to come up with the name of a show. That is from the Lord. And so we went to the Lamb's Chapel, and there was a guy named Brian Biggers, the pastor.
And he kept saying, he brought up one of the Psalms, and he said, If it had not been for the Lord, if it had not been for the Lord. I said, if not for God, and it's if not for God with Mike Zwick. And so I think that's the way that it should be. It shouldn't be all about Mike Zwick. It's if not for God.
And I just happen to be there as well.
So, yeah. I've always. Yeah. And how cool is that? You were obedient back then, but then again, you took a year or so off, and once again, you felt God.
nudging you to come back Do it again. Yeah. And you're obedient? Yeah. And so You know, part of the thing I've always thought that the reason why God had this show, Kingdom Pursuits, is to help other people see that when you're obedient, God asks you to do something, even though it may seem a bit crazy at the time He asked you to do it, because it seemed crazy to me, really crazy for me to get on the radio.
Tur ter tur totally terrified me. But man, oh man, the adventures, the things I think that I've enjoyed because I took... him up on it, right? Yeah. What are some of your favorite like moments on the radio since you've been able to enjoy this?
Well, I I tell you what happened right before I started my radio show. It was November the first of twenty nineteen. And I had finished up selling insurance for the day. And I was driving and all of a sudden there was a woman who Who was in the middle of the road and the sun had completely blinded me? She was 86, and I hit her, true story, with my car, and she flew about 20 feet in the air.
And I remember I got out and she was just like mumbling, and I just started to pray over this woman. And then the police came, the ambulance came, this, that, and the other. And one of the things that they told me was this: they said, you know, you go ahead and go. And, you know, when you come back, you know, we'll be in touch with you or whatever. And they said that over that weekend, I remember the Lord told me not to eat anything and to pray from 8 a.m.
until 5 p.m. And my son Christian was literally one years old. He was one, just over one. And that day while I was praying and fasting that this woman would live, he came up to me with a Bible and he said, read the Bible, dad. Read the Bible, Dada.
And so that was at a point where I started to read the Bible. I called the police officer on Monday. He gave me his number and I said, how is she? And he said, She's going to be okay. He said, On Saturday things were starting to take a turn for the worst.
But on Saturday something changed. And she ended up living. And so I realized that anytime that the Lord is going to do something big in your life, or my life, Robbie, or Michael's life over here. that a lot of times the enemy Is going to come in and try to cause havoc. But my Bible says that greater is he who is within you than he who is within the world.
That could have gone a lot worse. Who knows what could have happened? But I know the enemy didn't want me on the radio.
So, one of the things that happened is the fact that I'm even on here to begin with, and that the Lord saved that lady's life.
So yeah. And you know what's fascinating about what you just said is that you know, after Kingdom Pursuits today, well Be the radio show that James Banks does called Encouraging Prayer. And one of the main highlights of his show today is about a young lady that had that particular. verse tattooed on her arm. And why?
I mean, it will break your heart when you hear it. I'm not gonna sp Steal his thunder, but if you listen in encouraging prayer, it's just remarkable to me, greater is he. Right is a gigantic thing. But you brought up an amazing cool thing from my standpoint. I I remember Michael, your son, who happens to be in the studio with us right now.
There he is. Michael Jr. Different Michael Jr. than mu you know, but are you a comedian, Michael? Since you are Michael Jr.
Are you a comedian, Michael? He doesn't know. Hey, there you go. He may be. He may be.
But anyway, Michael has a story for us. We've got that coming up. We've got the diars coming up. We've got a lot of stuff coming up for you today. Of course, we're going to play shenanigans here shortly.
But when you think about just the coincidences and the coincidences, it's divine moments that happen as a result of what's God doing. And so You know, with the last few seconds What's another memory that happened as a result of you walking with God? I would say Ray Comfort. When he said to me, he said, when I go out on the streets and I'm witnessing to people, he said, I have to cover my eyes. I have to watch my eyes.
He said, because I don't want to be a hypocrite. And I said, if Ray Comfort has to do that, I've got to do that as well. You know, and I think to all of us is to know that nobody is more special than anybody else. We're all in this together, bro. We'll be right back.
You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits where we hear how God takes your passion. And uses it to build the kingdom. How fun today we have Michael's Wick, the host of If Not for God, comes on this station here in WTRU in Winston-Salem on 12 noon, right? High noon.
High noon. It's with If Not for God. And then we also have with us the drives. Caitlin and Derek, they are raised in a hallelujah at Pinedale Christian Church. Saturday, June 20th at 7 p.m.
I mean, that's pretty exciting. Really exciting actually, because you guys got a whole lineup of stuff, right, Caitlin? Yes, we do. Yes, we're so excited. We have Michael Farron, who has written songs for Michael W.
Smith, the song Let It Rain that so many churches do. Ben Fuller, Black Sheep, Lauren Daigle, he's had so many cuts in the industry and it's really exciting to have him coming with us from Nashville. And then a local artist and his wife, Gray and Crystal Steadman, and they lead worship at Salem Chapel. And so it's going to be an awesome night of music and songs and stories behind the songs.
So, you're actually going to be raised in a hallelujah, it sounds like, right? Oh, for sure, always. And it's going to happen at Pine Dale, which is just an amazing church, right? It really is. That's where I grew up.
So it's not a good idea. Oh, yeah. That's where I was going there my whole life and we love when we get to come back and do events like this. Yeah, so this is coming. June 20th is about three weeks.
7 p.m. It starts. What do people need to do to get involved?
So there is a link on our website, thedrive.com. If you go to shows, it'll be listed under there, or you can go to Pinedale's. website, High No Christian Church. And you buy a ticket, and they have a special group rate. If you want to bring eight people or more, you get the tickets for a cheaper price, and it's just going to be an awesome night where we're going to have you.
you know, lots of songs and stories. It's very laid back, acoustic. Very intimate setting, which is really cool because you really get to just, you know, experience what it's like to hear how songs were written and why they were written. And it's just going to be an awesome night. Yeah.
We were looking at one. Yeah, so hang on for us a minute, Caitlin. I've got some other questions I want to ask you. But I've got Michael calling. Michael's calling from Lexington.
And so I'm very curious. Michael, what you got for us?
Well, I I have become really good friends with your guest there today, Mr. Zwick. This Wikipedia himself. Yes, yes. And um.
We had talked back and forth, and I told him, I said, if you're on, He had asked me in the past to share a testimony or something out on the streets. And I figured the one I was going to share with you guys today. was the one that happened several years ago when Fred Hage and I We're in Las Vegas, Nevada. Really? We were about two hours away.
Fred Hege was in the car business. I don't know if you know this, Michael, but the reason I'm in Lesbius. I know he's a good friend of mine. The reason I'm in Winston-Salem is because of Fred Hagee. Because he had the Jeep dealer in.
In Winston-Salem. He owned University Jeep Eagle, which was over on Peters Creek Parkway. David Neal bought that franchise. And Chrysler told him that he had to buy the other Chrysler franchises to make it happen. And so he hired me, because I had Chrysler experience, to come to Winston-Salem.
I met Fred back there. I had no idea he was a Christian. But since then, I've become a lot closer with him than I used to be.
So I picture you out in Las Vegas with this car dealer. Just kidding. And it was Fred and I in probably the worst. part of Las Vegas. uh around uh sunset.
Yeah. And we figured that we would hit the streets for a few minutes before we got in the car. to go to the airport to come back home. And we walked up and saw a homeless fella And I'll never forget this. His name was James Holliday.
And I had one of the the Gideon PWT's personal worker testament in my pocket. And I said, James, do you have one of these? And he said, no, I don't. I said, would you like one? And he said, I sure would.
He said, my mother has been telling me about Jesus for years, and she just recently passed away. Wow. Help in time of need in the front. If you've got any issues or anything in your life, You can go through this little testament and it will help you. God will provide the answers for you.
And I turn to the back cover. And the back cover is what we call the plan of salvation. I ask people, do you know what a GPS is? And most people will say, yes, it helps me find my way. I said, well, that's exactly right, James.
I said, um Would you read a couple of verses with me? And he said, You know, my mother wanted me to read the Bible. My mother wanted me to read the Bible with her, and I never did. And it was the Lord, it had to be. And the Lord said, Michael, tell him.
If he does not. Give his heart and life to Jesus. He'll never see his mother again. And I said, James, let me just let me just uh Tell you something. I said, You're not a believer.
You've never given your heart to Jesus. You want to see your mom again, right? And he said, Oh, yeah, and he started to cry. And I said, James, in the back of this In the back of this little PWT, John three sixteen, would you read that for me? And he read that God loved him.
And then he read uh Romans 323 that we're all sinners. Yeah, we fall short. And he read 623 in Romans, and it says, For the wages of sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal life. And then I said One of my favorite ones, brother, if you would read Romans ten, nine.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, Brother James, you'll be saved and you'll be able to see your mother again in heaven. And I said, James, I know that's important for you. And I know your mother will be there with arms wide open. If you give your heart and life to Jesus. And then I said, I asked him to read one more, Revelation 3:20.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear my voice and call. and opened the door. I will come in to him. And I said, James, I said, this is a great time.
This is the day of salvation. if you would if you want to ask Jesus into your heart, I will lead you through that. and that brother Pray to receive Christ. And it was probably seven o'clock in the evening. And he said.
He gave his heart to Jesus and he said, Michael, he said, I want you to do me a favor. He said, I want you to. Write my name down. And I want you to pray for me every day. And he said, I'm going to get to Winston-Salem sometime.
And I want to make sure that I look you up. And Fred Hagee, God bless Fred Hagee, was over there praying his fanny off. And uh I told him, I said, James, When the Lord takes you home. you're going to be able to see your mom again. And I would say The the the the look on that fella's face And I'm looking at the Bible.
right now that I wrote in. James Holliday. And I wrote the date. The date is 1120. Twenty-one.
Twenty. 11.
So, Michael has he ever come to Winston-Salem? No, he never has. He never has. But I pray for that fella. And I prayed for that fellow for a very long time.
He never made it to Winston, and I don't know how to get in touch with him. Absolutely beautiful. And I was thinking, you know, as I was listening, as I was listening to your story, Michael, I couldn't help but think. Like man. Caitlin The name of your event is Raise a Hallelujah, right?
It is. And I was thinking, all of heaven, as you were finishing that story, Michael, was raising a hallelujah. Uh And what a divine appointment in such an interesting place, right? Yeah, and let me tell you something. It was dark.
I barely we barely Saw each other. Right? I mean, I almost walked by him. It's dark in Las Vegas, When it's dark. I'm telling you, especially in the dark.
It's dark when it's light outside in Las Vegas. That's right. That's right where you are. That's right. But Michael, I do want to tell you something and the listeners something that Fred Hagee once told me.
He said, We usually have a certain percentage of people who respond to the gospel. He said, But in the darkest of places, that percentage goes up of people who respond to the gospel. That's beautiful. That's right. Well, Michael, thank you for that call.
That is so awesome. He had Jesus on his heart and mind because his mother told him. Oh, I know. And she prayed undoubtedly all those years. I mean, that's it's just beautiful.
And she prayed for him and prayed for him and prayed for him. And uh, and God sent it on my heart. Yeah, He did.
Well, thanks for calling in, buddy. Thank you, Michael. And God bless you guys. Y'all have a wonderful radio. That's a great story.
Thank you, buddy. It really was.
So, God, God bless you. God bless you guys. God bless you. You too.
So Caitlin I I am very curious. Like, for the listeners that may not be familiar with your ministry, you guys did start out in Winston-Salem. And how did God get you and your husband involved?
So, you mean, how did my husband and I meet, or how did he get us involved with like? Church world. Either one. Whichever you think is more appropriate. Yeah, well, my husband and I we met we were set up on a blind date and so we started doing music.
We met in Winston Salem. That's where I grew up and he actually grew up in Thomasville. And we met, started dating. We've now been together 15 years. We'll be married this year.
And we've been together 18 years. April was 18. And You know, my friend who put us together, it's kind of crazy. She said, you know, I I feel like you guys are going to do music together and it's going to be like what you do. And I thought she was crazy.
But then we met and I mean the rest is what it is now. I mean we've been doing music together, released music the first time in twenty eighteen and we moved to Nashville in 2014. That is so cool. It's quite a story. Unfortunately, that music means we've got to go to a break.
And so, will you stay with us through the break? Sure.
Okay, great, great.
Well, we come back. We still have the other Michael besides this Mike, and then we have... Of course, got to play shenanigans. And so we're going to get to all that when we come back, plus the rest of the director. I've stored.
We'll be right back. That's right. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion. And uses it to build the kingdom so fun today we have a pair of mics.
And we have a bunch of mics in the studio. Yes. And then we've got Caitlin Drives. Don't drop the mic. Yeah, don't drop it.
Yeah, we got Caitlin Drives with the drives, right? That they're going to be at Pinedale Christian Church Saturday, June the 20th at 7 p.m. That's amazing. We're going to hear more of her story here in a minute, but it is Kingdom Pursuit, so we've got to play a little shenanigans. And so, you know, with that whole idea of if not, what do you say?
Speaking of Ifnahat. Funding game.
So Caitlin, have you ever played shenanigans? I have never played this.
Okay, well, this is your first time. The way it works is. And has Michael Jr. ever played Now, for you being an upcoming comedian based on your name, this is your opportunity. But anyway, so what we do is we tell some really bad joke riddles.
Okay, so here we go. And you hear this first one, you'll get the idea.
So, why or what's. Blue what's blue, Nick? and not very heavy. What's blue and not very heavy? Nick, you got an idea?
Mike? Michael Jr. Blue and lavender. Yeah, blue bird. Light blue.
A blueberry? No, light blue. Light blue. Did you get that candle? They're light blue.
Is it the sky? No. No, light blue. Alex. The joke.
Come on, it's a little bit funny. My dad jokes. I like it.
Okay, alright, alright, alright.
So. Mm-hmm. How does Mr. Ed the horse respond? You remember Mr.
Ed from You don't remember. He was a talking horse back in the day, okay? And how does he respond when he goes into a restaurant and the hostess greets him? Hey Mr. Ed.
Hey Mr. Ed. How does Mr. Ed respond? Did you see Mr.
Ed Caitlin? Yeah. I did not. Oh, no. I didn't see it either.
I'm sorry. But he's a horse. A talking horse. I remember somebody saying, why the long face? If you're a horse, but I don't know, you know.
A horse is a horse, of course, of course, unless you. No, it doesn't matter.
Okay, but anyway, what he would say is. Please. Hey, Mr. Head, you know, you're in a restaurant. Hey, Mr.
Ed, you're a horse. What do you eat? Hey. Ah, you got it. I knew you would come.
Oh well, we're struggling today. What's dark? Better yet, why is dark spelled with a K and not a C? This is a good one to you for you, Michael Jr. Why is dark spelled with a K and not a C?
What do you think, Michael? Take a guess. I don't know. Um Mm. Because you can't see in the dark.
Ah, you can't see in the dark. All right, well, you knew at the end of those shenanigans, and those were some bad shenanigans, the worst I've had for a while. We do have a riddle that you can call in when today at 866-348-7884. All you got to do is tell us what is not, since we're talking about not, what is not the longest verse in the Bible? What is not the longest verse in the Bible?
866-348-7884. If you can do that. Nick, tell them what they'll win. Absolutely. Yes, so we win a prize from our Kennedy Pursuits Prize Valley.
If you know the answer to Robbie's riddles, give us a call at 866-348-7884. We have action Bibles, Date the Word calendars. We have so many books that are coming out. Yeah, we have the Gospel Backstratcher. Gospel Backstratcher, yes.
Complete with beads so you can share the gospel while scratching somebody's band. All you gotta do is tell us what is not. The longest verse in the Bible, 866-348-7884. If it seems really easy, you're right.
Okay. We were hoping you'd call in and win.
So getting back to. Caitlin. Yeah. Yes. So now you guys move to Nashville, what happens?
Yes, so we've been in Nashville fourteen years and chasing a dream out here. But I think how we tie into like the church world is we've always kind of lived that line of we love country music and we love Jesus. And we write about everything, and I think that's the beautiful thing with country music: you can write. And you can sing about everything. It's very story based.
And so You know, through the years, we've put out some songs where we sing about Jesus. And then the idea with this show, Raven Hallelujah, is just to honestly like connect the the Nashville writers world that So many artists here in Winston-Salem and the surrounding areas. There's so much talent there. And we get artists that come to us with the different things that we've done and they're like, how do you release a song? What's it like writing in Nashville?
And so the idea, we started these rounds in twenty twenty three to just kind of explore that with people there. And we come back and do shows A couple times a year in North Carolina, and these are just so special because you really do get to see, you know, the heart behind. You know, why songs are written and stuff you hear on the radio. Like, we have writers coming with us that write these songs that are on Christian Radio. And I think that's the beautiful thing about life is you live it and you write songs about it if that's one of your gifts.
And that is one of our gifts. And we love telling stories that you know, point people to Jesus, but kind of in a sneaky way. You know, we sing we sing in bars, we sing everywhere, we sing in You know, he's gone on tour with different artists, but we're never afraid to sing about Jesus. And I think that's the cool thing about what we do and why we started these rounds is, you know. Our hallelujahs are, everybody has a different one.
You know, we all walk in with different stories, and everybody walks into a church building every week with different stories. We can all celebrate our wins in life and our losses. And when we have loss, we celebrate it and we talk about it with other people, you know?
Well, Caitlin, you said you like this is Mike, you said you like country music, right? Oh, yeah, that's what we do, brother.
Well, you know, we've been on the radio for a while, and you've never even called me by my name. Hey, that's a good joke. I understood. No, that was one of my favorite songs by David Allen Coe. But my wife and I, we like a lot of country.
And I don't know if you've seen this, but there are a lot of country music artists who have actually crossed over and have done some really good gospel music. And I know Alan Jackson has done that, and I'm sure Randy Travis is another one. And they've done some really good gospel songs.
So, yeah. I mean, even now, I mean, it's been for years. I mean, you know, we're in a show that Dolly Parton produced. Called Threads, and we've been on tour with that. And she, her whole show, I mean, she sings about Jesus all the time, and she has a whole Hymns album.
I mean, it's been a thing for so long, but even more now, I feel like people are wanting real and they want, you know, people. Want Jesus, even if they don't know they do. But you know, if you have a song that is just about life and what you've gone through. that points people to good and to hope, which is Jesus. Then you've won.
I mean, you're walking alongside people no matter where they come from and what walk they're from. And that's like our hope with this show that we do on June 20th. I mean, is just to gather people and to be real and sing songs about life, you know? That's pretty much it.
Well, and Caitlin, I, you know, I thank God for unanswered prayers. But thank you so much for calling in today, Caitlin. Thank you for what you're doing in Winston Salem. God bless you. You guys keep up the great work.
Thank you. Y'all too. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Thanks.
Bye-bye.
Okay. So Again, getting back to We got Michael Jr. and uh So here You know, it's he's sort of a Mike Zwick in training. But you did have a story, Michael, you wanted to share, so we don't want to miss out on that. Go ahead.
Yeah, so when I was um when I had a sore throat one time uh, my dad prayed for me and I And within a few seconds It was healed. Jesus healed you. Isn't that something? And Michael, let me ask you this: How many times have you seen Jesus either heal you or your brother or your little sister? Um I don't know, a lot.
A lot, yeah. Oh. It's an amazing thing when you think about it, Michael. Almost every time we're healed, guess who the great physician is behind it? But the nice thing about praying about it is you get to feel that partnership between you and Him in the midst of all.
all the healing that goes on, right? Because believe me. I've been the recipient of some of that great job, Michael. And he's like I said, Mike's Wick in training.
So we got one more segment coming up. If not for God with Mike's Wick, stay tuned. You're listening to The Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Kingdom Pursuits, where we hear how God takes your passion. and uses it to build a kingdom.
So fun today we have Two mics. In the studio with all the mics that we normally have in the studio, of Mike's Wick, if not for God, with Mike's Wick, actually. And so. We were talking about before you know, earlier in the show. How amazing it is when you answer God's call to go do country music in Nashville, or you answer the call to do whatever it is God has you to do.
He takes you on these amazing adventures. You get to see some amazing things. What are some of your other favorite radio moments of things that you've seen as you had a chance to serve God through? You know, broadcasting.
Well, you know, I remember at one point, Robbie, I had wanted to have all the big names on, and we had a lot of them. We did a lot of the shows together. We did Ray Comfort several times. We did Dr. Michael Brown.
We did, we had, what's the guy's name from the church? I can't think of his name, but he has an accent. He used to come on in the mornings here. But I would have all of these names, and I said, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. And then one time I was spent, one day I was spending time in the secret place, and I said, God, I've got all these big-time names who are coming on my radio show.
And what? What do you think, God? And I felt like He told me in my spirit, He says, I never told you to do that. And so, you know, I think a lot of times we have to search our motives. But there was another time, and this has probably happened two or three times, you and I have talked about this, where it started off as If Not for God with Mike Zwick, stories of hopelessness turned into hope.
And then it came, then later on, it became about current events or about, you know, the latest trend or fad or, you know, what about Israel? What about all these other things? And those are good subjects. But I noticed that it got away from its original intent. And I realized that the purpose of If Not for God with Mike Zwick was to share stories of hopelessness turned into hope.
And so now I'm actually looking at bringing on people who have had those stories. There's a guy named Travis that we have a Wednesday night prayer meeting with. And, you know, just a couple of months ago, he was on drugs in the streets. And the Lord radically set him free. And now he is on fire for the Lord.
But he's also out there handing out tracts, sharing the gospel in the streets. And that is a story of hopelessness that has turned into hope. And I've seen so many stories like. That one of the stories that you probably remember: there was a girl named Nicole, and she was a pro-life lady, and she had had, I think, two or three abortions. And you and I, we had had her in the studio.
And she had abortions, but she realized that Jesus would forgive her from those abortions. It's not the unpardonable sin. But she went out for years and actually goes out to the abortion clinics and encourages other young women not to make the same mistake that she made. And so to me, salvation is not just about getting saved yourself, although that's a big part of it, but it's also about sharing that good news with others and sharing the hope with others. Go ahead.
No, I'm but another of my favorite, we were at the NRB, and that the woman that didn't used to be a woman or was a woman and then wasn't, and that was one of my Like, man, I couldn't even believe it. Yeah, transgender to transformed was the name of it. And it was Laura, Laura Perry, I think her name was. Her name probably still is Laura Perry. She had transitioned from a woman to a man.
And there was only one surge. She didn't have the main surgery done, but she had all the other surgeries done. And she said that one day that the Lord came to her and she said it was in the kindest voice, in the quietest voice. And he said, Is this what I would call you? Is this the name that I would call you?
And she would call her name Jake. And she said, No, Lord, it wasn't. And so that was her final piece of where she went. And she transitioned back to a woman. And so nowadays, in 2026, you can talk about this stuff.
And, you know, we have the right people in office and stuff like that to where we can talk about it. But during, you know, 2020 to 2024 or 2012 to 2016, if you talked about a lot of this stuff, I mean, you could be beaten up or even worse. And so it's, you know, sometimes we have to stand bold and in the faith, but. But on the other hand, like the Lord spoke to her, we also have to do it in a kind way because you can share the truth, but if it's not in love, people aren't going to want to listen to you. And you can share the love, but if you're not sharing the truth, then you're missing out a part as well.
And one of the beautiful things about her story. was her mom. who continued to pray for her and continued to just be kind to her in spite of the fact that obviously she was making choices that were driving her mom cra I mean, I can't even imagine what her mom thr went through. But it was the same thing about the man, Mr. Holiday, that Michael talked about.
You know, it was his mom. that was praying. And and and James Banks He talks about when we pray for our children, we're actually making... you know, deposits in heaven that last eternally. You don't know when those prayers are going to be answered.
That In whatever way God chooses to do it. But when we are praying for our children, you know, we get a chance to see that firsthand. We w it When we see people come to Christ or turn their life of sin into something else, from tragedy to triumph, so to speak, or from a test to a testimony, however, it works, it's really cool that just think it is. And I remember when I started selling insurance, we would have these meetings every week, and there was a guy, Vance Davenport, who would always tell us all this stuff. And then one day I came up and I started sharing all this stuff that he shared with me.
And he said, Oh, you do listen. And so everything that we tell our kids when they're younger, whether we realize it or not, they are listening. And the Lord is listening when we're praying as well.
Sorry, Robbie. No, don't be sorry. I'm grateful. I'm grateful you came. Certainly grateful for Caitlin being with us today.
Again, that's happening. It's Saturday, June the 20th at Pine Vale. And right now, you've got encouraging prayer coming on. He's going to talk about the greater is he. It's an amazing story.
Stay tuned for that. Followed by, If Not For God, with Mike Swick. It's coming on at 12 o'clock. Thank you so much for listening today. God bless.
Thanks for having me on. God bless you.
