Jesse Rogers, ESPN MLB Reporter

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I appreciate it. You wrote this article today and in summation, pretty much Major League Baseball, after implementing multiple changes last year, the size of the bases and relievers, what they can do and can't do, they're considering implementing a rule where a starter has to go six innings unless he's injured or what have you. What are some of these other future considerations that they're thinking about as it relates to this potential six innings for a starter?

Yeah, I mean they're just kicking it around because they're on to what is next after last year's rule changes. Not that they have to make another set of rule changes, but they're thinking about the future of this game and all the pitching injuries. For example, how many times bullpen's are used now in games.

Remember back in the day, seven innings was normal for a start. It's all the way down to 2.5 innings per start now is like an inning lower than it used to be basically in the old days. They're also thinking of ways to try to bring offense back in the game a little bit more, although it's been pretty good this second half in general, it's been down.

So they're kicking around ideas. We know about the double hook DH rule, which is if you pull your pitcher early or whenever you pull them potentially, you lose your DH. That's sort of an incentive to leave your starting pitcher in there.

That'd be one thing they're kicking around. The size of a pitching staff is another thing they're kicking around. The less pitchers you have in a staff, the longer your starter might go, that kind of thing. The other thing is what I wrote about today, which has not been talked about a lot, is potentially asking starters or forcing starters to go a minimum of six innings.

However, there are exceptions to that rule. Obviously, if you get rocked, meaning maybe four or five or more runs, you can be pulled before six innings. If you throw 100 and 110 pitches, pick the number. You can be pulled before six innings. If you get hurt, you can be pulled.

The real idea behind it is to avoid openers, for one. Everybody has to train five starting pitchers to be real starting pitchers. Also, to take that analytical moment out of the game when a manager pulls a starter that's going well at 84 pitches and he's about to face the opposing lineup for a third time.

You know that moment where you all hate? That's what it's really about. In doing so, they hope to change the training habits of pitchers. That's why if they ever implemented this, they would give teams three years of notice. All the way down in the minors now, you're training guys to last six innings, to maybe pull back on velocity and work on your command. All these things that we used to see in pitchers instead of just max velocity, max velocity. So there's a lot behind it than just forcing starters to go six, which I think a lot of people took it as that. No, there's some layers to it.

A lot of it makes sense. I don't know if it could happen in practice. Jesse Rogers is joining us from ESPN.

I've been yelling about this for years. We don't have the outliers of the world who just go out there and get it. They're not allowed to and the pitchers aren't trained to. Is there a thought in your mind that there's even more of a trickle-down effect, not just from the majors down to the minors, but down to the youth level as well, where young men are going to train differently?

The answer is yes. That would be the league's hope. Now, I didn't include a lot of pitchers in the story because then we were going to go into the weeds.

And what I mean by that is it's all about money. If pitchers down in high school and college are taught that innings will get you paid more than strikeouts, they will train to last a long time. And that's why I even wrote in the article, maybe even incentives for pitchers and or teams that reach a certain innings mark for starting pitchers could make sense. If your starting staff reaches 900 innings in a season, maybe you get an extra draft pick.

There's ways to address this. And the same thing with pitchers themselves. It doesn't have to be this direct, but pretend like 180 innings pitch gets you a $1 million bonus or 200 innings gets you a $10 million bonus. All of a sudden, you will start seeing pitchers train differently. So whether it's incentivized or forced them to do it differently, they do hope there'd be a trickle down effect, but it has to incorporate the money aspect of it because right now, velocity and strikeouts get you paid a lot more than command and innings pitched. Jesse Rogers is joining us here, covers all things baseball for ESPN.

This is the Infinity Sports Network. You think about the changing landscape. You said this could potentially be three years out. Could it be a little bit longer than that?

Yeah, I mean, here's the point. If they ever decide to do it at that point, it would be at least two to three years out. So I don't think they're close. I'm going to be honest. I wrote the article because it's something they're kicking around and hasn't been talked about publicly much. But I don't think they're close to deciding that's the word.

I'll use panacea, meaning the thing that will solve several problems. But let's pretend like this offseason, they say that's our answer. Then they will at least give 25, 26 and maybe even 27. They will give pitchers and teams three years to get ready. And that means training habits can change. And then you maybe in two years, you instituted in the minor leagues. Right. And then in three years, you instituted in the major leagues.

So it's really a long term project. And the bigger picture thing is they are trying to address injuries, scoring and starting pitcher sort of prestige all at once. And there's other ways. Like I said, a smaller pitching staff might do it as well. Though any of these things, you could take the other side and say, well, that might increase injuries. An 11-man pitching staff, you might increase injuries. Again, the pitchers would have to pull back some. It's hard.

And I wrote this in the article. One of the guys, one of the executives said to me, you know, the genie's out of the bottle. You can't ask a guy who's trained to throw 100 to now pull back and throw 93. But maybe you can. I mean, in the old days, guys, even though Verlander holds something back for late in the game. So maybe maybe you can convince guys to hold something back and and pull off the 100 maybe in their sixth inning when they're almost done.

So there's a lot of layers to it. But I think it's an interesting discussion because, like you said, I want to see Roger Clemens versus Al Leiter or whatever. You know, I want to see great. I don't want to see openers. I don't want to see many bullpen games, if any. You know, but I'm older. Maybe young young fans don't care as much. But I think if you pay a good ticket to go to a game, good price to go to a game, you want to see a real starting pitcher in there and not three relievers. You know? Yeah. The days are gone. You know, give me give me Randy Johnson.

Throw him out there, you know, versus Curt Schill. I mean, we don't we don't have any of that. Any. Not much. Not much. Jesse Rogers is joining us. Are there any other potential adjustments or changes? I think all things considered, almost a year and a half following the big changes from last year, the clock, the bases, extra innings and what have you. Are there any other ideas that are getting kicked around by baseball to improve the game? Yeah, well, certainly that double hook DH rule, but I don't think that's going to happen. One of the executives mentioned maybe a five batter minimum for relievers. So we don't have the parade of relievers. And, you know, maybe you will leave your starter in longer because you don't trust your first reliever to get five batters out.

Right. And it will put a premium on good relievers that can pitch, you know, maybe multiple innings and things like that. So five batter minimum is a potential.

I don't think that's going to happen. I think they're there. This would be the one big thing trying to address pitching injuries along with pitch starting pitcher prestige. I think they're really happy with the big changes from last year. But if they could find a solution to the things we're talking about, they'd absolutely go for it. But, you know, other than that, no, they're not thinking about, you know, I don't know, 10 defenders or something like that. They know they made some radical changes.

This would be the next thing on the list, though. Jesse Rogers joining us from ESPN. One thing that we have heard about intermittently over the past several seasons and it has been tested out in the minor leagues is robo-umps. At what point I think this is inevitable, not necessarily to replace the umpires, but to certainly assist them.

At what point are we going to see this at the major league level? Yeah, it sounds like 2026, but there's a caveat. They're assuming they will perfect the system between now and then.

So let's just assume they do by next year. It's just something about the zone isn't exactly perfect. But long story short, there's some technical things about it. But I think if they go to the challenge system, and you know what that is, right? You get three challenges per game.

If you win the challenge, you keep it. If they go to the challenge system, we're all assuming the most egregious calls will be challenged and somewhat easily overturned. If they go to a full robotic system, every pitch called by the computer, that's a little tricky because the zone would have to change. They haven't perfected the technology to judge every single borderline pitch the right way. Hitters would have to get used to a new zone, more of a rectangle zone than kind of an oval that it is now. But the challenge system, you're only going to see a few challenges per game. It's going to be those egregious calls. And almost everybody in the game would rather do that than go to the full automatic balls and strikes.

So I think 2026, it will be there barring something that sort of derails it next year. So you feel it's going to be more so of a challenge system? I do.

I do. I mean, rarely do you get the players, the teams, the league office, the players union all on the same page. And when it comes to this topic, including umpires, they're all on the same page. They all would rather have, even players, would rather have a challenge system because I think they understand the zone would change. And they have to get used to something new if it went to full automatic balls and strikes. So, yeah, I think everybody's on board with a challenge system. So, look, why fight that? If the league and the union could be on the same page about something, you may as well go for it.

Jesse, I know you know all about the league, but I know you are based in Chicago. How long are we going to watch the White Sox be bad? One year, two year, three year, four year, five year, six year, seven years, eight year?

How much more do you got to weigh to this? Yeah, I mean, probably four years. It's probably a four year plan. They do have some good pitching in the pipeline, but they don't have any hitting. So, I mean, minimum four years, minimum four years. They're going to trade for some young hitting when they trade Luis Robert, when they trade Derek Crochet.

And then you've got to let those guys mature. So, you're looking at a full on five year rebuild, maybe decent in four years. And that's if everything works. But they do have some good pitching in the pipeline. You can always fast forward your rebuild with good pitching, but they don't spend money.

And that's the other way to fast forward a rebuild, spend some money. So, we're not even at the bottom yet when you consider they're still going to trade Crochet and Robert more than likely. When they do that, that's when they've hit rock bottom. Well, Jesse, we may not even, well, I know we're not at the rock bottom of this year. Are they going to set a modern record for losses?

Yeah, I think so. I don't understand. I can't see the avenue where they won't.

I just don't. They just don't have enough. You know, Derek Crochet has been going to trend towards being shut down because of an innings limit. They already traded Fede. They just don't have enough. I thought they'd get a little boost with the manager change and, you know, they had to play the Yankees, so they actually won a game there. And maybe that boost will come, but I think they will set the record.

It's hard to see them winning 14 games the rest of the year. It just is. Oh, my God. Well, Jesse, let's end on a positive note here.

Your article was a pleasure. It was a dream, what you wrote, because I don't think Major League Baseball, I don't expect them to be that, what's the word, forward thinking. And it's a shame, if you asked me, that they've had to manipulate the game to try to get it back to its original kind of free-flowing form.

But I guess, hey, things change over time. In your heart of hearts, do you believe that in, I don't know, three, four, five years, baseball will implement this sixth inning? Or is it just an idea that they'll just rip to shreds and say, ah, no, no, forget it? Yeah, I'm going to say they won't. I'm going to say they won't. I think they will think hard about it, but they won't. But I don't know what they – they're going to try to do something. I don't know, you know, smaller pitching staff, as I mentioned a couple times, that involves, like, the union, because all of a sudden you have more hitters and less pitchers on it. And, you know, that involves the union in a greater sense.

So I don't know what the answer is. Maybe that double-hook DH, but that has problems, too. You know, Bryce Harper coming back from injury is your DH, then you pull your pitcher, you lose Bryce Harper. You know, fans pay a lot of money to see these players. So that's why, you know, maybe they will circle back to the sixth inning requirement, because I can't – I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel to fix these issues without something dramatic like that. But I don't think they're anywhere close to doing it. I hope that they do it. I wish that they would automatically do it themselves, as in the teams and the players, but we are so past that. I would not mind baseball going back to what it was, you know, 30 and 40 years ago, but, you know, who the hell am I?

I'm not – they're not trying to sell the game to me. Hey, Jesse, thank you so much. Where can people follow you, find your work, see the amazing article on ESPN? Fill us in. Yeah, ESPN.com. You know, I'm based in Chicago, so I do a lot of Chicago-oriented stuff, but also these big-picture things. And you can follow me at Twitter, at Jesse Rogers, ESPN.

Hey, Jesse, thank you so much for the time. Don't let the White Sox kind of ruin you, okay, and still love baseball. Too late. They've destroyed me this year, and the Cubs aren't much better, so let's put a tough year in Chicago. Well, at least no managers have fallen asleep in the dugout, so that's a plus. That's a win. You're right. Take care.