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It's the JR Sport Brief Show here with you coast to coast on the Infinity Sports Network. Man, there's so much going on in the world of sports that just revolves in in in deals with with gambling. I mean, we got this news earlier today. that ESBN BET was removing Penn National Gaming and hooking up with DraftKings. I mean, we've had professional athletes who've been suspended.
We've had legends arrested, guys like Chauncey Billips over, you know, ideas of, well, Gambling, potentially committing crimes. We have college, the NCAA has no idea what they want to do. With their athletes. Do we want to let them gamble? Do we not want to let them gambling?
It's just the world is blown up. at least the United States of America is just openly Brought in gambling to the table, and now they're trying to figure out how to regulate all of it. And it seems like it changes every single day. And joining us right now, welcome back to the show, is someone who can talk to us about all of this. Senior Editor from The Athletic, covering all things sports betting.
Welcome back, Hannah Van Bibber. Hannah, how are you? I'm good. How are you? It's great to be back.
Well, thank you so much. A little bit different than Mrs. Swift, but here we are, right? That's right. That is the nature of sports right now.
Hey, well, Hannah, I know you have a whole background when it comes to betting and this gambling aspect.
Well, first, let let's start here. For anyone who's not familiar, we know ESBN like a lot of the leagues, the NBA will get into that as well. They're going to be sitting in front of Congress soon. What's this deal with with ESBN Bet and them moving away from working with Penn National Gaming and now hooking up with DraftKings? Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so this is really a story about market share and kind of the like the bubble bursting or maybe the gold rush failing for some companies of sports betting. A lot DraftKings and FanDuel kind of form a duopoly. They have like over 60% of the market share of sports betting. And so ESPN went in with Penn to try to create like the third pillar. They wanted to have a 20% market share by 2027.
They made this $2 billion deal two years ago. And they have like a maybe a 3% share of the market right now. And so they just were not hitting the goals they set out to. And so they are folding the deal. early.
There was an opt out in three years, but they've agreed to opt out even earlier. And by December 1st, ESPN is shuttering the app, their ESPN bedding app. That will become the score, which is a pen brand. They already work with that brand in Ontario.
So you're going to see ESPN Bet still, but it'll be more content. And the DraftKings will become a tab within the ESPN app. They will be the exclusive betting partner. And it's really just they realize they, I mean, kind of in plain English, it wasn't going well trying to create their own.
So they're back with DraftKings, who they had to deal with before this Penn deal. Hannah Van Biber is here with us, senior editor for sports betting with The Athletic.
Now, we've heard that Penn National Gaming, Penn Entertainment, at one point in time they had a deal with Barstool, and that didn't work. And then they had a deal with ESPN, and we learned earlier today that that did not work.
So, what the heck is next for Penn Entertainment? I mean, they're a gambling company, they're not going anywhere. That's right. Yeah, they're not going anywhere. They're staying in gambling.
Although estimates say that they've spent more than $1.5 billion between Barstool and ESPN, which is in some ways a loss because those didn't pay off, those bets.
Sorry for the pun, didn't pay off. But they are going to be going back to focusing on their brick and mortar casinos, Hollywood casinos. And then as they also have iCasinos, which is basically like an app where you can gamble like you would at a casino, but on your phone.
So they're going to be focusing more on that. Their shares actually went up at first at the announcement today, I think because they were offloading. They were paying $150 million to ESP at every year.
So their shares went up and then kind of crashed after the DraftKings announcement. But they are going to refocus Their leaders say they're focusing on profitability this year and the things that they've always done well. Quote unquote.
Well, Hannah, we've heard, you just said it. Everybody's been kind of on a land grab to kind of get involved since the leagues have opened things up. Here in the United States of America, we're behind the eight ball. I mean, you could have gambled in Europe forever. And then here in the States, it's opened up so much so that we're kind of behind in regulation.
We've seen and heard. All the stories, guys like Damon Jones, who was arraigned today, giving information away in a different space with Chauncey Billips, arrested with the poker games and. We got the NBA, they're going to be in front of Congress. How are you guys making sure that the games are not rigged? What does any of this mean, and how difficult is it going to be to kind of reign the leagues and then maybe even some of their players in?
knowing that somebody's always going to try to get ahead. Yeah, it's a great question. And I think you really said it when you pointed out that it's kind of not a latent industry in the U.S. anymore. It's huge, but it's still so new.
It only got legalized about seven years ago or decriminalized. And so there's a lot of regulation that probably will be happening over the next months and years. And I think these scandals are sort of In some ways, we've always had sports gambling scandals. I mean, nineteen nineteen was the Black Sox scandal, right, where they threw the World Series.
So it's existed as long as people have gambled on sports, which people have done as long as sports have existed. But Um there's just more opportunity for it because of the proliferation of sports betting. One important nuance to it is that with regulated legal books, It's a lot easier to track. Illegal activity.
So the FBI was on this very quickly because a lot of sports books reported as soon as there was. Strange activity on like Terry Rozier's unders. There were all these bets that came in on his unders and like this. kind of random player, no offense. And they all were paying out consistently.
And several sports books flagged this immediately and that's what started the investigation.
So it's kind of like two sides of a coin, right? There's more opportunity for more people to try to rig the system in their favor, but then it's easier to track illegal activity as well and more protection for the people who are gambling.
So it's a bit of a catch-22, but I do expect to see a lot more regulation at the federal level and a more consistent level because sort of every state does it their own way right now. Yeah, well we know one thing that you can do now. Anybody can open up their phone. I mean we can go back uh more than a year. We got uh Jameson Williams who was you know pop for gambling on his phone.
Calvin Ridley you know gambling on his phone. We heard about Jante Porter throwing games so you know he can hit his under. Same thing with Rogier. Because there's so much access to gambling now with your phone and betting. Do you think that, and then the leagues are embedded?
You said it's a catch-22. The leagues are making tons of money now. Mm-hmm. Where is the regulation? Are we going to listen up, football fans?
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Call 1-877-718-5543 or visit morethanagame.nc.gov. Must be physically located in North Carolina. TNC Supply and app only. I'm Dr. Mary Claire Haver, and my new podcast, Unpaused, is the place for bold, unfiltered conversations about what it takes for women to thrive in the second half of life.
Listen to and follow Unpaused, available now wherever you get your podcasts. See a change in in what people are allowed to bet on? Is that not the only thing that you can try to uphold integrity where people don't feel they're watching the WWE NFL game that's rigged or NBA game? Yeah, there's so much discussion around where the regulation needs to happen. And some states have more.
Regulation than others. Like in some states, you can't bet on college games within that state, or you can't bet on college players. But there's a lot of conversation about, I would say, some of the main buckets of bets and regulation that's being talked about is something like setting bet limits on prop bets.
So player props is those like over-unders, how many points will a player score, or even a prop bet could be what's going to be the speed of the next pitch. And you can have these, we call them micro bets within a live game that just keeps people betting more and more. And that is one place that's being targeted to reduce or ban micro bets on the next section of a game. Setting limits on prop bets or eliminating prop bets for college players or let's say only allowing them for big stars who may be less likely to be involved because they may not need the money.
So no no prop bets. For college students, because can you imagine being in college and being offered like hundreds of thousands of dollars just to Like, call out of the game early.
So, there are ways that they're looking at what are the most vulnerable and easiest events to manipulate, and how can we regulate that? Like a missed free throw. We shouldn't be betting on that. That's so easy to throw.
So, there's conversations about that, around limits, and then, of course, around the way your money comes in and out of the sports book as well, and into your account, and how they track people who are quote unquote problem gamblers.
So there are a lot of areas to hit this, and there's a ton of research. I've been talking with a lot of people who are putting a lot of money. Different foundations, different government entities are looking into this and trying to do some serious research into the impacts and where we could really regulate and change things. Hannah Van Biber is here with us from the Athletics Senior Editor of All Things Sports Betting. You mentioned college students, and we've heard in the NCAA the past couple of seasons as the athletes have been able to make money and get their share of the pie in so many different ways.
They've been allowed now to gamble on pro sports. But now it's like, oh my god, that's a little too much, a little too much too soon. The NCAA is typically all over the place. What type of regulation could there be on these athletes? They can't gamble on games, can they?
What's the latest on that? Yeah, so it's been kind of a mess on that lately because the NCAA said they would allow athletes to bet on pro sports. Starting in November, and there was some backlash to that. If they do allow athletes to bet, I mean, I can see it going that way because there's the argument that you know people can do whatever they want with their money. In this country, but there needs to be some consideration.
Obviously, they can't bet on their own games, they can't probably bet on their own league. But will the NCA be okay with them betting on pro sports? I'm not sure. How that will go. I mean, they are moving in that direction now, but there's been a lot of backlash and questioning about it.
Mohanna, th things are so new. When I say new, we're talking about the past five, six, seven years. how long is it going to take for us to have regulation? As we both said, somebody is always going to try to find a way around things to cheat, to make money, to find the easy way out, to be quick. That's always going to be the case.
How long do you think it's going to take for us to have parameters? Sure, they're going to grill Adam Silver in a week or two, and people will try to yell at him and make it sound like they're doing something. When are we really going to get some real action here? Maybe. Yes, that's a great question that I can't answer, but I would say it will take it'll take years to get to a place where because think about how long it takes to put regulation through.
I think it's going to take a lot of research, people looking into the impact, financial, emotional, mental health, Of betting and then also looking at the best ways to do it safely because we do think people should be able to do what they want with their money. A lot of people are having more fun with sports when they're putting a little money on a game.
So, how do we enable that gamification of watching a game without putting people at risk or without putting the game itself at risk?
So, I think it's going to take a lot of research, but all of that is happening right now. I there's already been a few things, like the NDA has made a few changes about like players on two-way contracts or shorter contracts. You can't bet on them, prop bet.
So I think leagues will start figuring out what is best for their league, their players. And they're the ones who are going to have to put like their weight and their money behind pushing for these regulations. Yeah. Yeah. Even outside of that, Hannah, you bring up a good point, gambling on a guy who's on a two-way.
Yeah, he'd have more incentive to try to strike it rich than, I don't know, some guy like Steph Curry making God only knows how much money. He's halfway to being a billionaire. Is there any other. Direct impact for our listeners, for the consumer.
Somebody who wants to put down $20 hoping that it flips to $400. Like, is there any other immediate impact, or is this just. a a small, minor change they won't even notice.
Well, there's not really an immediate impact on what's going on with, you know, ESPN, with the NDA. I just think that it's in some ways good that this information is out there and that people are encouraged to be smart in the way they bet. Be aware of how sports books might encourage you to chase a loss. Don't do that. You know, set yourself limits.
Set yourself a separate account where you use, don't put extra money in after you lose a bet.
So I think it's really important that anyone who wants to have fun gambling on sports really learns about what are some of the risks and what is the best way for me to approach this in a way that doesn't put me at risk. Yeah, good thoughts.
Well, Hannah, we appreciate the time and your expertise. Tell everybody where they can follow you and all of your work with the athletic. Yeah. You can follow me, Hannah Van Bibber at theathletic.com. I'm also on Twitter and Instagram and sharing kind of insights and explainers on betting and, as you know, pop culture at as they cross over with the sports world.
Hey, Hannah, always a pleasure having you on. Always learn something, so we look forward to chatting soon again, okay? Always a pleasure. Thanks so much. Thank you so much to Hannah Van Bibber for joining us.
Covers all things sports betting for the Athletic. Get us on the entertainment side, too. All the talents in the world. Thank you so much to Hannah. Listen up, football fans.
You won't want to miss this. Right now, new Bet365 customers bet $5 and get $200 in bonus bets win or lose.
So you could turn that $200 into something bigger when you bet on Money Live, Spread, Totals, Player Props. $200 in bonus bets when new customers bet $5. I know where I'm going to bet from now on. Ever Ordinary at Bet365. Gambling problem?
Call 1-877-718-5543 or visit morethanagame.nc.gov. Must be physically located in North Carolina. TNC Supply and app only. Every now Then I richly And I need downy rinse tonight and I needed more. I came with the bed and the smell never leaves.
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