BREAKING: High Stakes Talks Between Russia & The U.S.

This is Jay Sekulow. We have breaking news high-stake talks going on right now between the United States and Russia. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. What will tell you that President Putin is serious about trying to find a negotiated solution? Well, one thing is this, if we're actually going to make progress in these talks, we're gonna listen to their concerns, they'll listen to our concerns, and we'll see if there are grounds for progress. We want to hear from you.

Share and post your comments, or call 1-800-684-3110. To make actual progress, it's very hard to see that happening when there's an ongoing escalation, when Russia has a gun to the head of Ukraine, with a hundred thousand troops near its borders, the possibility of doubling that on very short order. And now your host, Jay Sekulow.

Hey everybody, welcome to the broadcast. We'll be taking your calls at 800-684-3110, and there is a major development, that is the escalating tension between Russia and its neighbors and Russia and the United States. And I say that because on Ukraine's border there are over a hundred thousand troops, there are bilateral talks going on right now today dealing with this very issue. In the United States, President Biden had a conversation with Vladimir Putin last week, where the report, the readout so to speak is what it's called, was said it did not go well. The United States is talking about significant state sanctions. Vladimir Putin's response to that is if there's a new round of sanctions, then we will in fact have a breach in our relationship. The irony of all of this is we'd removed the sanctions from the Nordstrom gas line that's coming out of Russia, which will serve most of Europe. That we allowed with no sanctions, while the President Biden decided that taking the pipelines here in the United States, he'd shut that one down, and he did. So I'm is inconsistent, but the problem is you now have a tinderbox literally going on in in Russia, in the region as we speak.

I want to go to Andy for this for a moment here. Andy, I think this Ukraine situation obviously is tense, but there is a unique history here and I think it would be good to kind of explain the history of Ukraine and Russia. Well I think we have to understand that Ukraine was, at least this is the contention that we're going to hear from Putin and from the the people who advocate the reassumption of the Ukraine into Greater Russia. It was the heart of the Russian Empire. Prince Vladimir in the 10th century, specifically in the year 988, had his people baptized and accepted Christianity from their pagan faith in the key caves of Kiev in the Ukraine. He sent out embassies to Rome and to Constantinople to determine which form of Christianity he wanted his people to take. And remember he is centered of his empire was in Kiev in what is now and what was then what we call the Ukraine. He went to Rome and the Romans put on a great elaborate mass for them and he went to Constantinople and the Orthodox put on an elaborate liturgy and when the embassies came back he said which form of Christianity do you recommend? And the ambassador said the Romans were very beautiful very nice they fed us well they had a beautiful mass but when we were in Constantinople and we went to the Church of St. Sophia we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth and he said well that's all I that's all I need to hear and the two apostles Cyril and Methodius set out from Constantinople and baptized Prince Vladimir and the key in the Rus in Kiev in the Ukraine. So for Putin that is the heartland of Mother Russia. But it is an independent country Wes, independent nation. And yet you know Putin made the statement recently repeated it from our previous year the greatest geo geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century was the fall of the Soviet Union.

His goal is to try and restore some of the greatness that he perceived back then so his motive is I can go back and be the strongman restore the old Soviet era kind of empire for Russia and I think that's part of his goal. All right we're gonna get into this by the way we have Rick Grinnell today and Mike Pompeo to discuss this our senior advisor for international policy and our senior counsel for global affairs so we've got a lot to talk about on this well also we come back from the break give me an update on the Supreme Court inaction and what that means we'll do a real quick update on that because we don't have an opinion in the case involving the mandates. We'll take calls as well Logan and comments. That's right our phone lines are open right now 1-800- 684-3110 that's 1-800-684-3110 to get your voice heard on the air we do a phone lines open. If you're watching on social media make sure you like this share it comment we'll get to some of those as well again and check out ACLJ.org.

We'll be right back. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values our freedoms our constitutional rights are under attack it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena and we have an exceptional track record of success but here's the bottom line we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms that remains our top priority especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn it's called Mission Life it will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists the ramifications of Roe v Wade 40 years later play on Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life request your free copy of mission life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift Welcome back to secular we will be taking your calls at 1-800-684-3110 that's 1-800-684-3110 if you want your voice heard on the air today we'll get to some of those later on so we've got a conflict between Russia and its neighbors and Russia in the United States high-level talks going on in Russia right now let me briefly report on what on this argument on Friday we gave you a live analysis of the Supreme Court argument on the Biden health care the vaccine mandate no decision has come down from the Supreme Court no stay had yet has yet to be issued which means portions of the law went into effect today the mask requirement if they're unvaccinated if you're vaccinating the requirement that you provide evidence of your vaccine to your employer the testing mandate which for unvaccinated employees which was a big part of this also was moved by the Solicitor General till February and so that doesn't go in effect till February Logan was saying how could they do that but I remember you asked that during the yeah they could just you know pivot and make an adjustment live during the hearing was pretty interesting the whole hearing is pretty interesting to see actually how much that they would give yeah when they even said what do you think there should be a stay and maybe there should be a stay it was almost the interesting mind game if you will to play with them well they are like you know the the she she binds the the Solicitor General binds the agency so when the agency moved that back that portion of the testing it binds the agency that's just the way the law is all right we're gonna get right back into this I want to go to fan Bennett in Washington because then you've got Wendy Sherman who was the of course one of the principal negotiators for the Iran nuclear deal who's leading the new the in the negotiations for the United States with Russia right now what what do you what's your expectations there you know Jay I actually think this is where the conversation needs to start when you're talking about diplomacy from the United States in because Wendy Sherman is not a stranger to any of us you mentioned a second ago that she was the lead negotiator in the infamous Iran deal the the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action so Jay we know what we're gonna get from her she's been involved in these high-stakes negotiations before my concern and the concern that I'm hearing from many on Capitol Hill is that when you send the same people with the same strategy you're going to get the same result and obviously we know what happened with the Iran negotiations and the deal that came out of that but Jay this is someone who is a hard left activist it's just that it's just the bottom line truth before she came into government service she was a director of emily's list which is our listeners know is a very pro abortion activist group here in Washington DC so I think the concern is even if you have you know maybe different room for differences of opinion on how these negotiations should look Jay I think leading with Wendy Sherman is a cause for concern those meetings started last night they're continuing today but I think it's probably the worst way to put a strong foot forward you know there's this whole discussion about Ukraine and it was as Andy said historically was part of Russia and then that separate but but Harry it is a separate nation-state it is but it's not necessarily a separate nation-state in the mind of Vladimir Putin and I think that matters Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared that the liberal idea has outlived its purpose he supports this claim by noting that the public has rejected liberal European policy stances on immigration open borders and multiculturalism so when we come to this issue we should note first and foremost that Putin is a man of principle and that the United States is led by unprincipled cosmopolitans who are prepared to make the same old arguments that have failed before with respect to Ukraine and I doubt seriously whether or not their arguments can be seen as convincing in the mind of the Russian government or the Russian people people are asking though so they're having these negotiations these issues Ukraine may be invaded what difference does it make to the United States I know that's on a lot of people's mind yeah well it changes the world order a lot as well as international boundaries but you know their perceptions are important and Vladimir Putin perceives the United States as as weak and divided and certainly our President that way he regrets deeply as a matter of fact on December the 23rd he made a speech in which he said he regrets deeply what he called the disintegration of historical Russia he is he is determined to build back some of that glory and his modus operandi is to use the excuse that somehow he is rescuing people in restoring order and we have sent mixed messages mixed signals over the years he invaded Georgia 2008 was no you know recommendations from us Crimea 2014 we have removed sanctions on the Nordstrom to pipeline so he thinks he can get away with this his desire is to cut the influence of the United States to curb NATO and to try and rebuild some of the esteem of historical Russians I do not I do not believe now maybe I'm wrong here but I do not believe that even this administration is going to curb NATO no no NATO is strong it's vital to the stability of piece of Europe and the United States that's why whenever Putin has tried to demand that we not enlarge NATO that Ukraine can never be considered for membership he even said he wanted to tell us which troops we can place in our own NATO countries in which weapons the United States and the Secretary General of NATO said those are non starters but we will not negotiate from that point Jake Tapper had on Anthony Blinken our Secretary of State take a listen to what he had to say so you say the u.s. will respond with massive consequences to any Russian aggression in Ukraine President Biden has ruled out u.s. unilateral troops on the ground what sanctions is the u.s. willing to impose and our u.s. troops as part of a NATO or international force on the table well first when it comes to consequences it's not just us who's been saying this the g7 the leading democratic economies in the world made clear there'd be massive consequences for renewed Russian aggression so is the European Union so has NATO and we've been working very closely with all of these countries in recent weeks to elaborate those to come to agreement on the steps that we would take together in the event of renewed Russian aggression the event of renewed Russian aggression there is renewed Russian aggression right now this isn't this isn't in this in the face of possible renewed Russian aggression the Russians have amassed on the border with Ukraine over a hundred thousand troops including heavy artillery so that's happening now now here's the problem Europe could say all they want Andy about you know we're really upset with Putin doing this but they need the natural gas from that pipeline that Russia controls that's right and they're not going to do anything that jeopardizes that I think the Americans have to realize that we don't always look to our European allies to form our foreign policy our foreign policy should be formed molded and shaped based upon America first and not upon a European concept Rick Grinnell has said this time and again and former ambassador to West Germany don't look to the Europeans for as the great supporters and allies that you think that they are because they're weak reeds and weak feathers that you're relying upon look to America and this is something that I doubt that this President has the fortitude to do I don't think that Putin would have done what he is doing and under the prior administration whatsoever but he finds solace in the fact that as Harry Hutchinson correctly said you've got an unprincipled cosmopolitan is as President of the United States and you don't have a person who takes America first as his predecessor did you know be interesting to get Rick's position on this because Rick in addition to being the ambassador to Germany also served in the United Nations for ten years and of course was the director of national intelligence then there's a lot of discussion in Washington about the impact on this but we've had a pipeline here that was shut down by this administration and now we're you know Europe is depending upon of course Putin's pipeline so you know whatever they do is going to be muted well to underscore the point that Andy was making and my guess is that Rick will echo this sentiment as well I mean I don't think Russia believes this tough talk Jay I mean there's reason for them not to and President Biden can say all he wants that there will be severe consequences and that they're gonna start with economic sanctions look I I think we've said in the past yeah I mean economic economic sanctions are a good place to start they're a proper place to start but if they don't get the desired action if the if the target of those sanctions does not come into compliance you have to be willing to take a tougher stand now clearly the economic stations that have been on and off in different places have had an impact on the Russian economy but Jay they have not gotten the desired result in this conflict with Ukraine and I think if you ask Vladimir Putin Putin do you believe that President Biden will lead the world will lead the g7 in taking a more strenuous action should you continue to ignore it I think he would say absolutely not of course not I mean I think that I'm not saying that that's maybe the President will and surprise us and will I don't know what that means though that's the problem what does that actually look like because as you said Wes this affects the entire world order people in the United States you need to worry about this if Russia's in an aggressive mode that's not good for the country our country yeah it destabilizes the world you know and and he will come in and and use whatever you know opportunity has to to disrupt things and to recreate you know Russian power this is a very volatile time in Europe we have Rick Rinnell it's gonna be joining us next our senior advisor on international affairs and national security so he will be advising his next very interested he is the one who said consensus negotiations like this consensus approach to governance is not a necessarily a good thing yeah we have a lot of people watching right now so if you don't mind share and then we appreciate if you're watching on social media we have a lot of people listening obviously to the radio if you have a question or comment I know this is kind of a big topic a lot of people are wondering why they should be should care we're kind of breaking that down for you a lot of people are watching I think to get informed but if you do have a question or a comment to make you'd like to make it to our host on the air give us a call at 1-800-684-3110 it's 1-800-684-3110 we'll be taking your phone calls in just a minute also check out the great work of the ACLJ and ACLJ.org available also all of our video content our daily blogs great content from people like the panel you hear today Mike Pompeo, Rick Rinnell all on our website ACLJ.org we'll be right back only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life we've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn it's called Mission Life it will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists the ramifications of Roe v Wade 40 years later plan Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift the challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values our freedoms our constitutional rights are under attack it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena and we have an exceptional track record of success but here's the bottom line we could not do our work without your support we remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms that remains our top priority especially now during these challenging times the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today ACLJ.org Welcome back to secular we are taking your phone calls at 1-800-684-3110 we have obviously on the show right now coming in live Rick Grinnell is joining us right now yeah Rick I think one of the obviously we've got the situate the negotiations going on between Wendy Sherman on the United States side and then the deputy foreign minister for Russia over the situation in Ukraine and some of the other areas in that region now one of the questions that is being asked and I think this is one that we all want to know the answer to is what happens over there why should Americans care I mean because there are people are saying well you know this is their regional problem this is in the u.s. problem how do you answer that look I think that that's a fair point right we we certainly don't want to be dragged into wars the America first idea is to say what is our interest how does America how are Americans impacted by these decisions and I think that the reality is is that this is in Europe's neighborhood but unfortunately we've been pushed into this corner where we have really bad choices and that's one of the things that I think Donald Trump gave us with an America first agenda which was the ability to not get put into the corner where Russia is on the border of a European country we've already seen what they've done with Crimea because the and look this goes back Jay to the fact that there wasn't a credible threat of military action from the Biden team there was a credible threat from from Trump and so you have to ask yourself why is it that North Korea and China and Russia begin to test the Biden ministration in ways they never tested Trump and the answer goes to the fact of what what world leaders have said to me personally which is quote we just always didn't know what Donald Trump was going to do so we had to wait you know and that in lies the credible threat of military action one of the issues that comes up and I'm gonna play this sound is is Vladimir Putin trying to reestablish basically a Soviet Union take a listen this is Jake Tapper interviewing the Secretary of State former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said a few years ago that what he believes drives Putin is a desire to restore the old Soviet Union do you agree I think that's right I think that's one of President Putin's objectives and it is to re-exert a sphere of influence over countries that previously were part of the Soviet Union and as we said that's unacceptable we can't go back to a world of spheres of influence that was a recipe for instability a recipe for conflict a recipe that led to to world wars and Rick so that sounds tough I mean it sounds like we're not gonna allow this we don't want this to happen meanwhile President Biden shuts down the pipeline here removes the sanctions on the Russians for the pipeline there and and then we're trying to talk tough at the same time and it doesn't work look at talking tough after a series of weak decisions is ridiculous I mean here Blinken is talking tough when he's been put in the corner but what has he been doing over the last nine months he hasn't been talking tough he's been acting weak and that's the whole problem that I have when when people say in a very real and right way which is why is this current crisis in Ukraine our problem it's our problem because we've allowed the United States has allowed themselves over the last year to have Russia bully into Europe because we've been ignoring the issue just like Obama did around Ukraine just like Obama did around Syria right when you show weakness don't be surprised that you're in a corner having to choose between two bad decisions and that's why I think we get charged up we get angry because of the slippery slope Jay because what does this mean next year where are we showing such weakness that our enemies are organizing and others are organizing against us so that next year we're gonna find ourselves into a world crisis mass all because right now we're acting weak and and let me just finish by saying this here's an act of weakness that we're doing right now sending Wendy Sherman in to negotiate I mean come on how many times do we have to learn that she's a terrible negotiator she negotiated with the North Koreans and got out maneuvered they they took the food aid that she offered and didn't do a single thing that she said that they were going to do then she was the lead on Syria she was the lead on Crimea with Russia I mean every single time we put her in in an Iran negotiation she is the weakest negotiator possible she cares too much what the other side thinks of her and so the idea that Wendy Sherman is the tip of the spear for us I fear that we are sending another message of weakness I to me it was it's shocking it's I call it's like Obama 2.0 it's like they got promoted in this administration it makes it worse but this is the this is part of the problem these are the people that are doing negotiation Colonel Smith has a question for you I'm not optimistic Rick that that the outcome of these talks that begin in Geneva are gonna have gonna have a good outcome but you know Putin has presented a draft agreement and in that he says we can't have any NATO troops in any country previous to what we had in 1997 and that basically he's going to direct NATO deployments I think he knows that as a non-starter and that he he really is not sincere he's probably using this as a pretext to say I will go ahead and invade Ukraine anyway how serious do you think this Russian blueprint is and is is it simply a pretext for invasion yeah look this is another frustration because we're we've allowed ourselves to get in the situation where it's a bad decision and a worse decision and now we have to decide and give you know foreign policy critics have to give their opinion on these two issues and and the reality is I have to start the answer by saying I never would have allowed us to be in this position over the last nine months I wouldn't have given Russia all the weak signs and the pipeline and so you know it's infuriating that we're in this position of two terrible decisions but let me just answer the question and that I think Russia and Putin are very real about jamming us because they believe that Biden is weak so I do believe in invasion is a very real possibility I believe that they're all alternative or ultimatum that we have to choose between backing down or fighting with them because we're too close to former Soviet states and that they want to have their glory days back I think that's really real but again we shouldn't have to be in the position of negotiating at NATO to back down because Putin is saying I'm gonna start a war if you continue this March I don't want to stick Russia in the eye I don't think that NATO needs to be doing that but NATO exists to make sure that Russia doesn't rise and we need to be able to make tough decisions on the climb so that when we get to the top we're not faced with two terrible decisions like we are today all right this is just out just now it's this coming from the New York Times it says quote after nearly eight hours of intense talks the u.s. pushed back on demands it said were non-starters while Russia said there was no reason to fear an escalation of tensions with Ukraine and then Russian this is Russian officials said that they told their American counterparts that they had no plans to invade Ukraine in a series of talks that lasted nearly eight hours there's no reason to fear some kind of escalatory scenario escalatory scenario yeah and they'll say this is a province they'll say this is a success Rick thank you for for being with us we appreciate it we're here for another 30 minutes it's great to have analysis by people like Rick Rinnell part of our team could really give you the inside of what's going on here but like you said yeah look the other way and it's gonna go away it doesn't all right back with morning yeah we'll be right back with more another half hour of secular live you're watching right now stay tuned if you're on a radio station that doesn't carry make sure you log on and watch us on Facebook YouTube on aclj.org former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is going to join us in the next half hour of this broadcast but here's more to the ACLJ we have these experts as part of our team for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at aclj.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today aclj.org you keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever this is secular and now your host Jay secular so there's high-level talks going on between Russia and the United States right now Russian officials saying don't worry we're not going to invade Ukraine meanwhile they've got a hundred thousand troops and heavy armaments on the border if you're just joining us we had Rick Rinell on he's saying they're basically saying to the United States we'll just look the other way we're gonna be joined in the last thing with the broadcast by former Secretary of State now our senior counsel for global affairs Mike Pompeo to discuss this all of this is happening simultaneously there was one question that I had because obviously you worry about instability and the question is if in fact Russia were to invade Ukraine and China were to invade Taiwan what has the impact economically know those I threw a different one in there scenario than what we talked about during the break because you add the China Taiwan Taiwan situation to it and you may change the equation but what do you think from a long economics perspective as a professor the impact of that would be well first I think if Russia invades Ukraine that invasion will be over within 24 to 72 hours that's number one number two I think Europe will continue pretty much as normal because they will continue to get their natural gas supply but I also think that if China invades Taiwan this could have a ripple effect throughout the economy because it could affect for instance access to chips and semiconductors and those things may have a long-term adverse impact on the US economy so I think the second invasion would be more important in terms of disrupting economics what you've seen Colonel Smith you've seen these statements coming out of the summit don't worry we're not gonna invade Ukraine meanwhile they got a hundred and twenty thousand or so troops there and heavy armaments China's threatened Taiwan they consider it part of China what's yours I mean if the Russians were to invade Ukraine what happens yeah thank you great good yeah they would I think it would be a longer and bloodier fight than when they took Crimea because we have armed Ukraine with some offensive weapons but when Russia says you know don't worry we won't do it you can't really take that check to the bank you know Nikita Khrushchev and I date myself who was the premier of the Soviet Union once said promises are like pie crust they're made to be broken and that is part of the Russian geopolitical mentality so I don't think we can really take their word you know that they will not invade Ukraine I think they will it will be a long bloody fight it will be ugly at the same time it will strengthen NATO and and we will build strength with NATO in the in the countries that border Russia now but I think personally he is going to invade I think all of this negotiation and talk I think it's a pretext I think he intends to invade Ukraine and I think he thinks he can get away with it and Andy you were just at our offices in Strasbourg the European Center for Law and Justice but the sense is I mean I think it's pretty clear that the Europeans need that natural gas they need that gas pipeline and that's controlled by real yeah that's right the Europeans are not going to be our allies against a Russian invasion of Ukraine they don't care they're looking at their economic interests and they're not looking at the interests of the United States and my fear is that nobody's looking after the interests of the United States least of all the President of the United States again an unprincipled unprincipled globalist a cosmopolitanist is looking to make sure everybody likes him that's why I put Wendy Sherman up there as the negotiator because she wants to be sure that everybody likes her that's not how you negotiate from that sort of a position but back to the Ukraine situation Putin is saying that we're just going back to the status quo at what it was under Peter the Great and Catherine the Great I don't know that we're trying to re-establish the Soviet Union we're just trying to re-establish the czarist Empire the reason I say that is because there is a Christian overlay to all this that didn't exist in the Soviet Union he has the support of the Russian Orthodox Church he has the support of the people as Harry Hutchinson said if he takes over the Ukraine Europe is going to go on as always yeah I mean this is the the when they say Logan that there are you know there's all these negative consequences I mean I you look at and you wondered yourself really I mean the problem is it destabilizes a world order and that's what you got to understand here and that matters to the United States Mike Pompeo former secretary it's going to join us in the last segment this segment we're going to take some of your calls and comments coming up that's right give us a call right now 1-800-684-3110 if you're on hold stay on hold we'll go we'll get to you 1-800-684-3110 we'll be right back the challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values our freedoms our constitutional rights are under attack it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena and we have an exceptional track record of success but here's the bottom line we could not do our work without your support we remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms that remains our top priority especially now during these challenging times the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today ACLJ.org only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life we've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn it's called Mission Life it will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support and the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists the ramifications of Roe v Wade 40 years later play on Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift welcome back to secular we are taking your calls at 1-800-684-3110 that's 1-800-684-3110 go ahead yeah I just want to say to those that may be joining us just for the second half hour we it's we're not ignoring what happened at the mandate argument case on Friday it's just there's no opinion that has been issued we were there was an expectation of a of an administrative stay and then probably opinions today there was neither administrative stay nor opinions today so we're gonna take phone calls at 800-684-3110 let's go ahead and take a call all right David's calling online to hold for a while David thanks for holding you on the air hey David hey thank you very much no I was just I'm trying to to contain myself regarding all I've been hearing about the weakness that we've been showing yep but when you were talking about how they took Crimea and if they take excuse me I'm Ukraine so why wouldn't why should the Europeans not worry maybe they'll go want back the Baltic States and Poland and maybe East Germany yeah you know with look I mean the German Republic would be now as one of the strongest economies certainly strongest economy in Europe and is a world-class economy I don't think that's where they would go but do they look they sent troops in with me Vladimir Putin is showing what he wants to do he sent troops in was it yet last week the Kazakhstan to Kazakhstan because they were having instability in the government right right and he uses that as his method you know of operation that I'm going in to help promote stability he's not going in to promote stability whether it's in Crimea in eastern Ukraine or Kazakhstan or wherever but that's that's the reason he uses his real goal is to diminish u.s. influence to curb NATO and to make Europe more dependent on Russian energy and to you know really enlarge the Russian sphere of influence that is what he is about and left unchecked Jay that's what he will do the other thing that concerns me also though we mentioned Taiwan and the possibility of China invading do not put it past our three big adversaries to cooperate strategically so that about the time that we're dealing with Russia and Ukraine China will invade Taiwan and Iran will come forth and say they have their first nuclear device there is there is a the real danger of strategic cooperation between these three countries so so I'm gonna go to fan on this quickly here and then fan as far as what Congress is looking at here on any of these Foreign Affairs Committee national security what are you hearing in Washington right now on these well I think though you're hearing a first of all the echoing of concerns you just heard from Wes you heard it from Rick earlier in the in the broadcast in the event of multiple invasions Jay I mean there are no great options there aren't we're not suggesting that there are but in order for you to have any options whatsoever you have to have a commander-in-chief who the opposing side or the adversary believes would act I think these committees Jay even on the Democrat side I will say this is not just a Republican thing I think even on the Democrat side there is not a belief that this President is willing to take another action Rick Rick called it no credible threat from the United States and I think that's true Russia does not believe that the President will act and the proof of that I do think when is Wendy Sherman leading those negotiations so look some of these committees Jay they might convene hearings they might take testimony but look this ultimately comes down to the commander-in-chief it's not something that a congressional committee can override no no it's the executive branch and here's what's interesting this is just released the New York Times again there's a readout on the conversation so this is what Wendy Sherman said Andy today was a discussion a better understanding of each other and each other's priorities it was not what we would call a negotiation okay then what are you doing there I mean if we're not negotiating with we're sitting down there just Molly coddling each other and just stroking each other to make each other feel good that's what Wendy Sherman wants she wants the other side to like her she wants everybody to like her because that's what her that's how she's been trained she's an elitist leftist person who's taken the position under Obama and now has been promoted under Biden you know and into this position would you want her negotiating a car deal for you I wouldn't even want her to buy a car for me much less negotiating something as basic and fundamental as what as what our relationship with the Russians are over Ukraine I think it's an absolute travesty to have her as the negotiator and when you when you read that thing from the New York Times and says we're just we're just basically feeling each other out here to see how we feel we're not really negotiating then what in the world are you doing there well here's what here's what they've the deputy foreign minister for Russia said we don't see an understanding from the American side of the necessity of a decision in a way that satisfies us and what they're talking about when they say a decision in a way that satisfies us is a de-escalation not of Russia and Ukraine but of NATO Harry that's what they're talking about so when you say does this involve America yeah because we are the biggest sponsor of NATO and NATO has helped keep stability in Europe well I think your analysis is sound I think it's also important to keep in mind that the pursuit of a better understanding which apparently is Wendy Sherman's objective is not a principled objective but it is a perfect metaphor for the unprincipled behavior of the Biden administration in Afghanistan on the US southern border and throughout the world we have sent a clear and unmistakable signal to our adversaries now is a perfect time to strike against American interest all right let's take a call people are calling John is calling California online one John you're on the air hey John hey you know I'm a big a big believer in strategists in history and in chess and and my my thing is Biden's track record on any of these issues is in the toilet but my bigger issue is the fact that you know they know what we know they know if they put troops there our attention our energy is going to focus on this issue but what's China doing it are they in Afghanistan are they moving in to take over the lithium you know yes in Russia they're sick of thieves okay they're they're working together now against America the more they can kill this nation take away our freedom and they it's almost like they put Biden in office because he knew he was so well I'm not going to get into who put who in office but I will tell you where I agree with you you know don't take your eyes off of China Wes for a moment not for one not just because of the possibility that COVID originated in intentionally in China which I believe that the evidence is showing which has created world havoc and no Supreme Court decision as of right this moment but also the fact that China is being very aggressive on what their intent is absolutely they're aggressive militarily economically politically and it seems that no one is checking China on this and again the thing that unites China and Russia they disagree on many things but they are united in their desire to diminish the United States influence and capabilities China is intent on becoming the world's only remaining superpower those twin threats are very very real very very large and you take that and you throw in also Iran and all that's going on there with their nuclear program we are we are on the verge of a true international crisis regarding these three countries and our response to that is key and critical you know I think that we we we engage in this with danger if we are not very specific as to where this could go this is an interesting comment from Rochelle on Facebook what would the Trump administration be doing probably not much because I don't think Russia would be invading Ukraine possibly I don't think the Chinese would be going into Taiwan because projecting strength this was a famous quote of Benjamin to Israeli it's he called it diplomacy as war and when and they understand power strength is power and that they the he and he was talking by the way about Russia at the time and the Baltic Baltic region that was under such a turmoil and he said they understand power diplomacy can be war Andy but you have to have a diplomatic position that has a consequence in our consequences where we lifted sanctions on the Nordstrom gas line so that the Russians who get gas to Europe while we close down our own pipeline here while he closed down our own pipeline here that's our strategy yeah good strategy let me tell you diplomacy without the threat of death without the threat of the exercise of power is not diplomacy at all I go back to the fact that I don't think any of Biden's advisors have ever read a history of the Second World War or what led up to it who went to Munich to see Hitler Chamberlain went to Munich to see Hitler Hitler did not go to London to see Chamberlain that was a show of weakness Chamberlain comes back waving a piece of paper having sold out the Sudetenland and Czechoslovakia and saying we now have peace for a time or in our time depending on what you think he said when he got off that airplane don't they see that you cannot concede to an enemy who is a dictator who is a totalitarian and get anything out out of it in the end that is good don't they read history books don't they understand that that's not how you negotiate you don't go over there to feel him out Chamberlain goes to Munich to see how Hitler feels and they said and have coffee and tea upstairs and they chitchat and he walks away having sold out the checks that's the same thing that you're seeing with Wendy Sherman that's not negotiation yeah unfortunately that's what she said it's not a negotiation she said it's not what we would call I'm reading what her the readout of this is she said today was a discussion a better understanding of each other and each other's priorities it was not what we would call a negotiation so she said it not a negotiation like you said Andy and what are we doing there I mean it's not a negotiation they want it they want to impact NATO that is what the goal is here and they will go into the Ukraine to try to do that because they know at the end this administration will do nothing I'm not advocating by the way that we get into some armed conflict I think that's a mistake too but there could have been better sanctions it's gonna been better better thought out I think it's a failure of foreign policy Logan coming up Mike Pompeo yes coming up senior council with ACLJ and former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will be joining us it'll be a fascinating conversation to say the least if you want to see some of his great content some of Rick Grinnell's great content all the panel you've heard today go to ACLJ.org only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive and that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life we've created a free powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn it's called mission life it will show 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remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms that remains our top priority especially now during these challenging times the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today ACLJ.org Hey welcome back to the broadcast everyone and we are joined by our Senior Council of Global Affairs and what an appropriate time for that to be Mike Pompeo former Secretary of State Mike thanks for being with us I want to get your analysis Wendy Sherman just said in this discussion between Russia and the United States that's going on this is what she said today was a discussion a better understanding of each other and each other's priorities it's not what we call a negotiation and of course we rhetorically ask the question if it's not a negotiation what is it? Boy Jay it's hard to know if I assure you that Vladimir Putin is there trying to exercise coercive diplomacy right his team has gone with a very clear mission a very clear objective they know exactly the things that they're prepared to give up in exchange for things that the Putin wants I hope our team is armed with the same level of specificity but the discussion that just wanders around the room talking about history or talking about what happened what they anticipate that's already taken place the leaders have done that they should have come with a set of clear outlines of what each side was prepared to do in order to achieve an outcome that made sense for their own people I fear Jay that when I hear and I saw I saw Ms. Sherman talk about de-escalation it is almost always decide publicly calling for de-escalation that is losing because is prepared is prepared to cave because they're asking for something that they're almost certainly not going to achieve from Vladimir Putin Mike what do you think the objective of Vladimir Putin is here I mean we've got a hundred and twenty thousand troops now at least reported to be on the border of Ukraine including heavy armaments you were in the military you don't put heavy armaments there I mean it could be it's just a show of force but what do you think the objective is is it is it the de-escalation he wants a de-escalation of NATO or is there something else yes he's trying to limit the capacity of NATO to build out democracies on his borders we it's not just here we've seen this in Georgia and Abkhazia we saw what happened to Belarus now several months back where he supported the dictator there we now know the Russians have sent folks into Kazakhstan this is Vladimir Putin and his his vision for recreating of some understanding about his near abroad in the Soviet Union he's going to use coercive power real power not sitting at a table in Geneva to demand that the by the ministration of NATO give him precisely what it is he's seeking more influence in those places and the ability to influence those economies ultimately to help build out his oligarchy and make Russians safer and more secure at the expense of the West one of the things I'm concerned about I know Colonel Smith may want my is got a question for you too but one of things I'm concerned about with this West and you can talk with the secretary of this is you know the Ukraine populace has a significant we don't know what the exact yeah we're reporting 50% of pro-russia I don't know if that's the number but all of that plays into this yeah it does this is complicated very very complicated I'm wondering mr. secretary you know what do we what can we bring to the table that will actually deter Putin and stop this potential invasion because many people believe that because of his demands concerning NATO that he knows we're not going to agree with that and so as to pretext that he will invade what are the things we can bring to the table that might get his attention so that he will not invade and secondly if he does and personally I think he will what should our response be so there are so many things we can do that increase his cost but we've not demonstrated any willingness to do them right when he when he had permitted from his soil our pipelines in the southeast of the United States to be shut down we did nothing when he now is becoming one of the primary providers of the resilient level natural gas inside of Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline when you see the Democrat Party talking about shrinking the defense budget those are the things that Vladimir Putin fears right we we raised the defense budget we were beginning to re modernize our nuclear program we wouldn't give in when he was breaking treaty rules there are so many things that we can do that make it clear it's just going to be too costly for him that includes of course arming the Ukrainians giving them the tools that they need to push back and make it expensive to make sure that Russians will have to fight and die if they try to do what they did in Crimea those are the things one can do to change the calculus the math for Vladimir Putin today the administration's not demonstrated their willingness to do that I'm gonna play a sound bite that we played earlier and that is a question I think was from Jake Tapper to secretary your your successor and Secretary of State and that is Anthony Blinken who was asked the question and coming up something Leon Panetta said about a Vladimir Putin basically trying to build back a greater Russia take a look if you would take a listen to the question and answer and I want to ask you a comment on it former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said a few years ago that what he believes drives Putin is a desire to restore the old Soviet Union do you agree I think that's right I think that's one of President Putin's objectives and it is to re-exert a sphere of influence over countries that previously were part of the Soviet Union and as we said that's unacceptable we can't go back to a world of spheres of influence that was a recipe for instability a recipe for conflict a recipe that led to to world wars so I want to get your sense of that mr. secretary do you agree with Leon Panetta and Anthony Blinken secretary of state now that objective would well could well be the return to the old style Soviet Union I think that's definitely to I was suggesting when I talked about him trying to re-exert power in these nations that are on the border of Russia look they've got a decreasing population they are largely resigned to being a country that depends on fossil fuels for nearly all of their GDP they know they need to continue to exert economic pressure and political control of the countries on their border in order to maintain their grip on power inside of Russia itself Putin's been pretty clear the greatest catastrophe of the last century was the dissolution of the Soviet Union well I think he knows he can't put it back where it was these countries aren't coming back in the same way that they were in the Soviet Union I think he wants to extend his influence in his capacity because he has deep economic and political interest in achieving that Mike for the for our listeners here in the United States we have listeners all over the world but in the United States why should Americans care yeah this is really pretty straightforward there's the there's the values that America has always tried to help the human rights issues making sure that countries get to make decisions for themselves but there is also a central notion of the rule of law that matters an awful lot to the United States we don't let nations use military force to cross sovereign boundaries that's why we care about our southern border right this is American sovereignty that we want to protect and it's important this idea that each country gets to make decisions for itself that the Ukrainian people and you're right there are many of them that would like to be closer to Russia fair enough that's what that's what they should do through their democratic institutions in Ukraine they should they should work that out we have to make sure that the idea that you can use force you can use military you can use power to subject peoples not in your country is stamped out and forever rid from the world we think of ourselves the United States is not having to that at any risk but our friends and allies our partners whether that's in Europe or Israel we know that the idea of nation-states being able to make decisions for themselves without military force being used to suppress them is really important I've got to ask you this we only got about 30 seconds left but I need to ask you this you I know you're a tough negotiator and you served our country so well continue to how tough are the Russians and their negotiations you've done it very tough they know what they want they know that they are prepared to take real risk to go get it I saw this in Ukraine when we were still talking about Crimea I saw this in Syria when we're trying to figure out how to get the Iranians and the Russians out of Syria they're real tough okay all right we appreciate it Mike Pompeo former Secretary of State senior counsel for global affairs at the ACLJ thanks for being with us and folks let me just say you heard today from leading experts in the world about these topics and they're part of our team here at the ACLJ so your support of the ACLJ makes that all happen I get a huge thank you 2021 was a great year we have some major initiatives for 2022 that we're going to be unfolding and a lot of will impact both domestically and internationally so this is we have an opportunity for some real growth again your support of the ACLJ makes that happen in ACLJ work for decades now the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms defending your rights in courts in Congress and in the public arena the American Center for Law and Justice is on your side if you're already a member thank you and if you're not well this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life-changing work become a member today ACLJ.org