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July 13, 2022 8:30 am
Join Mike Zwick as he interview famous radio Host Dr. Michael Brown to discuss his new book "Revival Or We Die".
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If not for God with Mike Zwick. We have our very special guest Dr. Michael Brown. We had him on several times and I absolutely love his books you read a book recently about revival is that right Bible we die greatly only hope I tell you what you talk about timing of this we, if there were ever a time in the United States were we needed a revival. It was definitely right now, but Dr. Brennan got saved in the early 70s believe in a Pentecostal church and you got your PhD and you actually became skeptical. I believe for a while of a beat eking in tones are some of the other things that were going on, but then you said something happened in 1982 that right yet I was on my way to my PhD work at New York University in your literature along the way and my college grad studies like church circles, things changed my perspective those very committed believers are committed to the word of God very committed to reaching out to Jewish people to induce myself with good news, but I left my first love in terms of the deep intimacy and daily devotion that I had committed believer. I left that that early intimacy at first love, and with that seeing something to seem flaky.
Some of the Pentecostal circles relative became very skeptical of the gifts of the spirit for today. Actually bought a lot of books and read things to do my best to convince myself of the cessation of this position that like feelings, not for today. The tongue prophecy when opportunity but interestingly the more I study the more I realized they couldn't make a good case against these things for today is the law where protecting the Pentecostal charismatic server the real deal is something else going on, but in the meantime and 82, the Holy Spirit began to convict me of my pride of my lack of intimacy with God on a daily basis of my my theological arrogant guy I knew so much and I know the languages etc. he began to deal with me and draw me back to him and I had to get this pursued him earnestly just to be with him more time with God and to humble myself and repent of my sin, my carnality, my flesh Holy Spirit began to move in my heart and life and showed me the different church, the view was super active in social causes. We were taking in refugees. We help the poor in our communities. We were pro-life we were really lacking in the power and presence of God and God show the report of the spirit in the church any work through me. I was one of the younger elders in the bottom and we had an incredible outpouring listed three months and six days. I mean people encountering job deep, deep repentance and turning him getting a fresh love for Jesus and the word they never had before the empowered by the spirit of people were touched and healed and it was a remarkable season during that season.
I read books by Leonard Ravenhill why revival parries in revival praying and God stirred my heart for revival and 83 my heart that that I would be part of revival it would touch the world is crazy is that sound that became an all-consuming hunger and thirst for years. I saw him for a mighty point not recall holding revival in your church like we do self holding revival next week. If you can hold it is not a revival special meeting.
I knew that there was something ago limited doing a great job and way connected with Leonard Ravenhill and David Wilkerson men of God like that with the truth even deeper in the Lord and then 96 Colby to serve as a leader in the Brownsville revival rose and I witnessed what God did for the next four years of people came from literally around the world hundred 30 nations lines would form in front of the building at 6 AM to get into the 6 PM open doors to the services started 756 hours every single night of more than 300,000 different people responded to the altar calls over five year period. Today we have missionaries serving around the world.
The downfield over 20 years that woodcuts in the revival and went out to take that fire around the globe.
So my heart beats for that and I know of a greater level of ever seen it that there must be an unusual powerful divine visitation that touches the church of America from the church of America touches the nation.
Without that Lucia absolutely and and I think I heard you say that there were people who were standing in line for the service and were getting saved before they even went into the church. Is that right yet. That's absolutely what happened in effect 11 young lady who served as a missionary to Tanzania came to revival, thinking she was just going to go to the beach teenager when she came that her mom could hate but throughout Pensacola the great beaches there, little knowing that before certificate.
Would be to services for a few days about elixir part of the morning clock long ago that you think you're on vacation log of the beach is asleep in the beats that are most likely up at five in the morning so here she is with a lot of attitude standing online before lights out she's born again at the going for ministry school serving as a missionary in Tanzania. Then we actually heard directly from the people that were standing online and the presence of God's own tentative people worshiping and talking about Jesus that they actually haven't find a quiet place fall to their knees, leaping and repenting before they got the building we heard from one warming firsthand your testimony that is she was driving by the building. One day without any thought of God suddenly she became conscious of God as she drove by.
She then became deeply conscious of her own sin and then right there in the car began to weep and got right with God, the born again while she drove by the building we found out subsequently with sugar testimony. While it's revival or we die a great awakening is our only hope.
You know, one of the things that I was thinking about deservedly talking about revival revival what can happen in this country.
If there is no revival so it is no revival what that means is that the church continues to limp along in a compromise statement.
Thank God for believers on fire. They cover churches that are of fire. Much of the church of America is deeply compromised, rather than a change in the world. The world changed us rather than a shining light in the darkness the darkness is entered into our mixed so if we are not standing as the moral conscience of the society. If our life is not shining brightly.
That means were going to continue to have moral and spiritual deterioration in the church.
That means that that the chaos in the anarchy that looks loosing will only increase the division will only increase.
Look what we have to debate the definition of what is a woman. I mean, what in the world has come to our society. No problem with that deeply confused with it when people are outraged and and vandalizing pregnancy license because they no longer have quote the white to abort their baby what what what happened to America ready.
What will happen next. Deep divisions that will the politics of race is over so many other things only get worse. So I would. I would say that the only alternatives are one of complete moral and spiritual collapse, leading to absolute chaos and anarchy in the society or to the dividing up of America. We have pro-life states versus pro-abortion states and then end up dividing and willing to be the United States of America or without going to be a superpower of being subject to all kind of attack we might be so much in financial debt that they were unable to sustain a strong army.
Anything can happen. The bottom could fall out any worse case scenario if there is no major revival in the church in the coming years and decades almost any unimaginable negative scenarios possible yet you know right now for a lot of us, we say mean things don't look good in a and and were glad that Roe versus Wade was a waiter was overturned, but we think that's just the beginning of what needs to happen but you said this is not the first time, where things may have looked pretty bad for us in the United States is matter fact I heard you mention there was a 1966. Time magazine cover. Can you tell us about that. Yeah, and then will go before that in American history. So the 1960s, the counterculture revolution got caught up in the whole drug seeing in six drugs rock 'n' roll Eastern religions to slip through the nation and it was a time of rising godlessness and throwing out a lot of fundamental values that we take for granted before in time magazine at AA which was very influential at that time major national publications front-page cover story and and for the first time they had no picture that start is God dead April 1966 June 1971 cover story. This is a hippie like looking picture of Jesus in their across the top. The Jesus revolution, time magazine, recounting the z-axis. It is an edifying read Time magazine recounting the miraculous work of the spirit.
All these people getting radically dramatically say forget it. I did in 1971 the Jesus revolution is God that no you can go back into the 1700s in the days of the colonies in America, which in many ways, with some of the goblins Thompson America were were created by Christianity was required in different places and it was just assumed that you would be in church and leisure family.
According to biblical principles and and yet there was backsliding that took place in one minister commenting on the state of things in 1700 said religion lay as it word dying in America and then what happened the first great awakening in America's radically impacted you have after the Revolutionary war, a time of great backsliding came to America and James had little or documented great revival in story that you can go to different college campuses in America and not find a single professing believer on the campus you could find almost all the students that sign up for the foul language club and yet the Christians that met keep their meetings in a coded diary listening. Find out what they were actually doing in America and what happened. The second great awakening beginning in the early 1800s transform the nation's same thing before 1857 1858 prayer revival, and of course as part of the proof of that meant emancipation of slaves uses follow-up. But before 1857 1858 tinted Morgan is a picture of much of America atheism entourage sexual morality on the rise of different types of alternative religious expressions, entourage, and it sounds like much of America today and then the prayer revival change.
Think that's why the title of my book is revival will be God because it is urgent. It is when things get to a place we deflected the point of no return of Chief Justice John Marshall around 1800's of the church is falling too far to ever be recovered in America that that's the state of desperation.
You get to when you cry out to God is revival is not one of many alternatives.
One of many possible things that could take place either revival or obesity collapse absolutely need one of the things I thought was the when you said that lady drove by the revival and she is the Lord convicted her and that God can do it any way that he wants to is matter fact I heard you tell a story about Charles Finney walking into a factory yet so one of the great Finney story the place call cotton mill. This was when the whole group dramatically and powerfully in the land and we are the places were for was ministering to people knew who he was. Word without about Carlson and he walked into factory is a believer's brother-in-law around the factory district, get a tour and one woman had displayed adjustable comment to her friend infinity. Just looking at the direction he had these QC eyes and suddenly the fear of God fell on her.
She began to weep and mixing convictions fell in the factory and one by one. People began to weep and cry out in the sea pretenses. Better take your people sultans run the factory.
They shut things down and God slip through the place in these accounts so real and so impossible.
Then we saw things it seemed unreal and possible when the Holy Spirit was poured out in Pensacola that take place.
We got so many testimonies of extraordinary things and the pastor would be touched in the revival and go back to his home church in England the war in Tennessee wherever it was in and it was now Sunday morning and any get up to begin the service. Mixing these weeping uncontrollably because he so conscious of God's presence.
People have in Isaiah 6 encounter they become aware of the vicinity of scrap he hasn't done anything yet, but the presence of God was with him and that's what we must have teach and preach the word work faithful, load the disciples, day by day by day where where the conflicting presence of God where where is the consciousness of God that makes us understand how far we are from him how great his mercy is and how we need to flee across absolutely and you know I read about George Whitfield and they said that she was such a great speaker. This if he could speak if it was Benjamin Franklin said this, that he could up to 30,000 people could hear him and he would make these great speeches and they were powerful this that the other but what I see now is that there are so many times that we look to the preacher whose the great war writer who can make a great speech choose who somebody that knew this sounds good or it's popular. Whatever. But there was also another guy named Jonathan Edwards and he was not such a great speaker. But something happened in his church.
Is that right Jonathan Edwards date to be the greatest theologian and philosopher in American history date is works or studied in depth. Yale University has the many, many, your multi volume project of the works of Jonathan Edwards which scholars annotate comments and interact with them anything but a Bible Belt fundamentalist ghetto Bible thumping preacher and dog begin to move in his church, the Holy Spirit was poured out mightily and then he was asked to bring a message in Enfield, Connecticut. This is in the summer of night of 1741 and I redid the people went to the church. It was considered to be godless and very very apostate so the believers in the neighboring village was so burdened with Franco because the new goblins moving but they thought God like this pass Enfield by committee spent the night in prayer before Edwards spoke their and from what I think he had previously delivered the message but it didn't have the effect it had that morning is the famous message that he brought sinners in the hands of an angry God and he read the message the manuscript and he read the message verbatim of film almost described as now I can verify out these details that he was nearsighted so held the manuscript close to his face and then in the other hand, he had a candle to light.
Light things up better in the building. In any case he wasn't running around, jumping, shouting, would say that so as he's speaking about the sinful state of view of humanity and how we are just hanging by a thread from falling into the fires of hell. It became so real that people begin to cry out, literally, in the meeting that according to the reports there were live marks and scratches on some of the pillars in the church because people were clinging to the pillars, with they slip into hell and these reports have been widely circulated, but it brought tremendous pen sometimes repentance come out of an account with the love of God. Sometimes that of encounter with the fear of God. Sometimes the depth of the ablation of our own sin overwhelms sometimes in productive ablation of the mercy of God, that overwhelmed this time it was that that the revelation of human sin and divine judgment and III spoke for a pastor not far from Enfield in 1989 when I was finishing my first book on revival and he said when he was doing research for his masters thesis. He looked into what happened to the community. He went into the. The libraries that are archived from that day and he actually took me by where with the church building will building out the little house like a small boulder with an inscription on about what happened that but he said that when he did the research because it was summer time that people at the windows open in their home and for days after the meeting. You could hear people groaning and moaning and crying out in their homes, the conviction was that deep and it lasted for days. This is what happens when God's movement such as the temporary emotional high.
It's not just getting people worked up for psyched up instead specific conviction goes so deep he can last for days or weeks or years.
The people who were transformed off and transformed in a really really lasting way. That's awesome and you know when looking at John 114 it says in the word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth that I think God for his grace. I think God that he forgives us for our sins, and he doesn't and we can go back to him again and again. I just asked for forgiveness. Unfortunately, there is many people many churches in the United States today there are only talking about grace in their leaving out the truth like I keep hearing you talk about repentance in these revivals transforming the revival of the depth of any revival will be determined by the spirit of repentance that is obtained that that might happen. Repentance prepares the way for the coming of the Lord is not browbeating condemning repentance is people turning from sin to God.
Repentance is God have mercy on me, save me from my sins and without repentance is revealed. Revival God is not coming just to add in more blessings all let the Lord this coming touchy with the new blessing Nono repentance is getting to the root of the issue. Repentance is getting to what's wrong it would be like going to a doctor you got a poison toxin in your body that's destroying you. So the doctor gives you all pain pill or the doctor gives you something to help you sleep better.
You didn't address the root problem. We often try to do our church growth, teaching in our seminars and is is basically how to put icing on the cake with poison as opposed to it. Let's get the poison out and let's get something healthy and life giving that that's what has to happen and with revival. God is not coming just to little cherry on top top of something that's really wonderful. He is coming to say something that is dying, he's coming to transform something before it's too late coming to visit us before judgment of ex-wife of famous prayer of from the book of Habakkuk, a prayer which is really a prayer for revival. Habakkuk 32 ends with a laugh. Remember mercy and wrath remember mercy.
So revival is saying something is terribly wrong. God is coming to set things right and seek him and cry out to him and look at who visited everyone say habit so much to pray for America.
I remember the words of the evangelist Gypsy Smith from for many many years ago he was asked how he pray for revival and he said I draw a circle on the ground. Take a piece of chalk out. I draw a circle on the ground that I stand inside that circle and say Lord, revive everything in this circle that's how we pray for revival that would start absolutely managing one of the things that I that I heard you talking about is that you said in years past, you would have little groups of people who may have been praying for revival, you'd you'd see it here and there but you said now you're seeing more more. Is that right on not seeing it on the level that I know we must have it for the nation and I'm not seeing anything that comes anywhere close to what was happening in Brownsville during revival, at least in the state. However, think pocket one more pockets all over America people getting desperate.
More more crying out for years there's been day and I prayer in different places which is very very powerful cost of worship and prayer going up to the throne of God. So something is happening unseen pastors that are willing to go forth and really preaching the gospel of holding back going up to God in prayer and fasting and people are coming to the Lord. Believers again cut short. It's a pocket.
The pocket. Something happened. I'm personally expecting how the fired holy fires break out all over America is my prayer that the book will probably die what will help stoke these funds will help create a hunger in the hearts of God's people critically deciphered out a big duplicate happening revival will bring them to see personal repentance and restoration of first love and then we'll just put in front of them all. God can do it again so little by little here and here and here I'm thinking, desperation, hunger, recognition needs must double Phyllis according to the Holland revival recently around the ground on the passage of NASA ground on homicide buyers pray for my YouTube channel. If not from God with Mike Zwick.
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