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Welcome to If Not For God, stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. If Not For God with Mike Zwick, we have our very special friend, Justin Knutback. The last show we did where he was talking about where he casted out, casting out demons, we actually had some really great comments. We had some great feedback from a lot of the folks who heard the show. And there were, of course, some scoffers. There were, of course, some people who were skeptical, but you know, it was interesting. What I was almost surprised about was so many people that I talked to who said, oh yeah, I know that, or I've seen that before that happens.
And so I had a lot of really positive feedback, but today we're actually going to be talking about the issue of abortion. We have Justin and his wife, Brooke Noop. They're out of Burlington, North Carolina, and they've got their own ministry where they pray for people.
They pray for demons to leave people. And it happens. I've seen it with my own eyes now, Justin.
So I'm excited about that. But today we're actually going to be looking at Joshua chapter 24 and starting in verse one. And it says, then Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem and called for the elders of Israel for their heads, for their judges and for their officers. And they presented themselves before God. And Joshua said to all the people, thus says the Lord God of Israel, your fathers, including Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor dwelt on the other side of the river in old times.
And they served other gods. Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the river, led him throughout all the land of Canaan and multiplied his descendants and gave him Isaac to Isaac. I gave Jacob and Esau to Esau. I gave the mountains of Sarah to possess, but Jacob and his children went down to Egypt. And I sent Moses and Aaron and I played Egypt according to what I did among them.
Afterwards, I brought you out. Then I brought your fathers out of Egypt and you came to the sea and the Egyptians pursued your fathers with chariots and horsemen to the Red Sea. So they cried out to the Lord and he put darkness between you and the Egyptians brought the sea upon them and covered them. And your eyes saw what I did in Egypt.
Then you dwelt in the wilderness a long time. And I brought you into the land of the Amorites who dwelt on the other side of the Jordan and they fought with you. But I gave them into your hand that you might possess their land and I destroyed them before you. Then Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, arose to make war against Israel and sent and called Balaam the son of Bayor to curse you.
But I would not listen to Balaam, therefore he continued to bless you. So I delivered you out of his hand. Then you went over the Jordan and came to Jericho. And the men of Jericho fought against you, also the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. But I delivered them into your hand. I sent the hornet before you, which drove them out from before you, also the two kings of the Amorites, but not with your sword or with your bow. I have given you a land for which you did not labor, and cities which you did not build.
And you dwell in them, you eat of the vineyards and olive groves which you did not plant. Now therefore fear the Lord, serve him in sincerity and in truth, and put away the gods which your father served on the other side of the river and in Egypt. Serve the Lord. And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your father served that were on the other side of the river are the gods of the Amorites and whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Amen. But when I read that, one of the issues that is central to us today is the issue of abortion. We had a huge ruling that came out this past, I believe it was Friday, and Roe versus Wade was overturned.
And I've heard that within 30 days, up to 26 states could outlaw abortion in their states. But a couple of the numbers that I actually saw was that in the year 2020, there were 920,000 abortions in the United States in 2020. And in the same year, there were 45,000 gun deaths. And over half of those deaths were self-inflicted gunshot wounds. And so people talk about gun deaths and how people are dying from guns and stuff like that.
But many, many more people are actually dying in this. And I say people are dying in this country from abortion. What makes the issue, I think, kind of central and personal to me is the fact that my dad and my mom were together in the early 80s. And my dad wanted my mom to have an abortion.
And my mom says, no, we're going to have this child. And so here I am doing the show. But my friends, Brooke and Justin Knoop, you guys kind of had a similar story about how you met. And it was what, 14, 15 years ago? Yeah.
Yeah. So we met at a club about 14, 15 years ago. A few months before I had met him, I was raised in church and I knew having intercourse before marriage was wrong, but I didn't really care. So I did a lot of that. And that was probably my biggest addiction was men. And I remember I was living with this one man and he kicked me out. And I realized like sex could not keep a person, a man in your life at that moment. And I remember praying to God, like, I'm going to be celibate until I'm married.
Can I have a restart? Even though I've highly destroyed, you know, that precious part of my life, I did really well for six months, which was a miracle for me. And then I met him. And then she met you, Justin. I actually was somewhere else with another guy for his birthday.
I was like his date, but then I saw Justin and I'm like, okay, he's cuter. So I'm gonna talk to him later that night. He got so intoxicated, he couldn't drive home and I kind of felt bad for him. So I took him home through great persistency. I was like, what's one more time and I'll start my valve over tomorrow. So I gave into it and then I'm like, thank God, I never have to see that man again. And then eight weeks later I find out I'm pregnant with his baby. So Justin, you got a, you got a text message.
Is that right? I did. I know we shared a portion of this testimony in the last episode, but yeah, I got a text message from her. She said, Hey, we need to talk, but I hadn't heard from her in eight weeks. And honestly, I was that type of guy at that time.
I was, you know, partier, heavy partier into women and all kinds of stuff like that pre-Christ. And so I knew what that meant. So she called and she said it. Well, you told me you had a test that day and you passed it. I said, well, I had a test that day and I failed. Yeah. I was in school.
I was in school at the time. So yeah. And so then I gave him the news.
So yeah. How did you take that? You know what, honestly, at that time it was surprising. But then again, I was like, how long can I persist in this lifestyle before it happens? And it was like, when it hit, when she said that I was like, well, here we go. You know, you can only take so many risks and chances. And the good thing, like I said, was that the way I was raised wasn't perfect by any means, but I was raised to at least when you mess up, take responsibilities for your actions. So we began to have that, that conversation. That's what led into the conversation of what are our options. Did the idea of abortion ever come to your mind?
100%. Cause I was raised in a Christian home, but I would say more religious home. My mother was not a spirit filled woman.
She just went to church and some things changed in her life because religion told her it had to change, but she did not have a true encounter with Jesus. And she'll just like five, six years ago when we got to deliver her in a bowl and my mom received the Holy Spirit and her whole life changed after that. So I was raised in that religious home. I also was raised in a family where if you got pregnant, you silenced it. Like my aunt had a child very young and was sent away to have the baby. And then it was put up for adoption. I didn't even know until this man was 40 years old that she had a child. So in my family, it was very shunned upon to have a child outside of marriage.
So 100% that was my first thought. How do I fix this problem? Because it was a huge problem. Cause I'm 18.
I'm trying to start a career. I don't know this guy. He has tattoos. Yeah.
And you know, one of the things that I was thinking about with, with you, Justin, when I thought about talking about abortion is that if, if, if you would have just gotten the abortion and never told him, you may have never come to know Christ. Is that right? That's right. That's right.
Yeah. Because that, that, that is a huge part of my testimony and it's not funny, but it's actually amazing is as our son grew up, he learned our testimony. And I don't know if any of you guys have experienced this before, but some people who have grown up in church and they they've had that good upbringing can sometimes get jealous of the person with the radical testimony. I'm like, I was, you know, an alcoholic on drugs. I'm a first-generation Christian. I came out of such a mess and was transformed. And when I was, when my son was old enough for us to share that with him, he was like, dad, well, I don't have a testimony.
He was six when he said that. And, and we thought a minute and the Lord put this on her heart. He said, I said, you know what, son, if it wasn't for you, you were the pivotal point that God used in my life. As I thought I had made this horrible mistake, turned into the biggest blessing because it was part of what sobered me and, and, and led me into conversion. So after, uh, after the baby was born, I had to sit back and go, okay, I got another life that I'm responsible for. I was still a daily drinker. Um, we were still making horrible choices, but now it made me stop just enough to go, okay, now my choices affect more than just me.
Uh, what do I really want to do with this? And it was just enough window to where the, the Holy Spirit could begin to plant seeds and begin to speak to my heart. And you said that one day you were walking, you were standing in the hall and the Holy Spirit spoke to you. Yeah. Yeah.
That's right. So I hadn't, I was 23 years old and I had never opened a Bible before. He asked me one time what the 10 commandments were, and I'm already like six months pregnant.
I'm like, crap. My mom told me to stay away from God. I knew the name God. I knew the name Jesus and kind of, yeah, I think he did something with a cross, literally like bare minimum knowledge. And I'm walking down the hall one day and as clear as day, not audible to my ear, but I mean, it felt like a, if a voice could penetrate your physical being, that's what it felt like.
And it said, Justin, you're the road you're walking down will lead to destruction. I remember I didn't, I hadn't opened up a Bible. And so I didn't know till later there's actually a scripture verse that confirmed later, but it continued. And it was like, I heard it once, but then it was just ringing in my ear for weeks. And like I said, we were visiting her mother's church and I tried, and normally after the service, they'll do like an altar call.
And I did remember that. I'm like, I don't remember what the sermon was about, but I remember that they would do an altar call. And I remember on this particular day, finished the sermon and I'm like, here it is. Here's my opportunity. I'm going to go talk to this pastor. And he says, all right, well, we'll see you next week. And I'm like, Oh no.
Oh no. So I felt that kind of that rush of like adrenaline. And what do I do? I was in this moment and it just broke something broken me. And I chased the pastor down. I don't know if he's ever had that experience before where someone chases you down and says, lead me to Christ. But I didn't know what to do.
I had no, no religious upbringing. So I chased him down and I told him, what must I do to be saved? That's right. That's right.
Acts two. And I said, this is what's happening. I'm hearing this voice. And he said, son, I think, I think that's God speaking to you. And I'm like, well, what do I do? And I remember my response when he told me as well, that's great.
I said, I've done that about a hundred times at kids camp and churches, but it never worked for me. So like, good luck. Yeah. She grew up in that atmosphere. So I'll see her ear was just dull to that message.
I'm hearing it for the first time. And so two totally different responses. And so when you responded, yeah, it was, it was real. Uh-huh. It was, it was a hundred percent genuine.
Yeah. It didn't because nobody, it was the, the journey part was that there was, there was no immediate discipleship. Nobody kind of took me under their wing and told me what this thing looked like. Sad thing is he was calling pastors and youth pastors and none of them were like, Hey son, let me help you out there. Just like, yeah, I'm not really sure about that.
Or this is what my, I think. And then never touch base. And it just, that's, what's really heartbreaking about that. So that, that's honestly why our heart is so geared towards discipleship, intimate relationships and community to where people can learn practically what this looks like, because a lot of people out there it's, it's weird to say, but can be in the church 10, 15, 20 years. And you, you ask them things like, what are the great commission? How do you, how do you pray, do stuff like this?
And they're like, I don't know, because I felt, I felt stupid even asking because it's been so long and I was never taught practically what to do. So sure. You know, and, and when going back to, and it's Ty, your son who was born, yeah.
You know, Deuteronomy 30, 19, it says this day, I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curses. Now choose life so that you and your children may live. So you guys chose to have the baby. When did you get married? Was it before or after? It was after.
Yeah. Because we, he told me, I said, well, I think I'm going to keep the baby. I was raised by a single mother. So I knew how hard that was.
So that was a really big decision for me because I saw what she went through and I was a very difficult child. And but the one thing he said to me is he said, I can't promise you that I'll marry you, but you will never be a single mother. And so I took, for some reason, I just took that as facts. And I told my mom that and she's like, all men lie.
You can't believe that, you know? And he has tattoos, you know? And I'm like, yeah, you're true.
We don't know if he's going to be there, but just something was telling me like, he was legit. Yeah. So I decided to have the baby and best decision ever made. And then after we had him, the day he was born, he proposed to me.
Yeah. It was all backwards, you know? So he proposed to me the day he was born. And in that process, there was some lack of faithfulness on his part, which was really hard for me and things like that. But three weeks before we got married. So he proposed to me on July 27th of that year that my son was born. And then we weren't going to get married until November 6th of the next year. So over a year engagement. Was this 2008?
This is 2008. So 2009, November of 2009, we were going to get married because my grandparents were the only people we had knew that had been married one time and had stayed married and both of our families. So I was like, that date is the good, good date.
Might be good luck. That's what I was thinking. So we chose that date. And then after that, we were preparing for that. But then he had this encounter with God.
And like I said, he never read, like he had said, he never read a Bible. And so when he had this encounter with the Lord, he came to me and he's like, you know, we're living together and we're not married. So I'm either going to move out and we wait until November and get married then, which was, this was, what month was this?
This was in March. And I'm thinking this baby wakes up every two hours. No, we're going to figure something else out. Cause you're going to be here for that part.
Cause I'm not doing that by myself. And second of all I said, or he said, we can get married in two weeks when I'm off work the next weekend. So what do you want to do? And I said, well, I'm an extreme person. So I didn't, as soon as I, as soon as I read that, you didn't, nobody had to tell me, I'm like, Oh, this isn't right.
Let's just, I'll, I'll move out and then we'll get married. Whatever. I was like, it was just so, like I said, because I wasn't raising it.
It was just black and white. And I'm like, all right, let's, let's just do this the right way. And so we moved up the wedding and we got married two weeks after I, after I got born again. Yeah. Wow.
And so, you know, you know, when I read there's 920,000 abortions in 2020, and you've heard there's been over 60 million abortions since Roe versus Wade was legalized. You know, people hear a lot of numbers, but Ty is a, is a very special boy. Is that right, Brooke? Let me, let me tell you a story about him, actually.
It just popped in my head and I think I should share this. So we went a couple of years ago, went on vacation. It's how much of a special boy he is. We went on vacation and, you know, your typical family, your, especially if you're in ministry and stuff like that, you go on vacation, you're kind of off duty, you feel, but, you know, that's not true. If the Holy Spirit is working, you just follow his leading no matter what. So we sit on the beach and there's this huge family next to us.
I mean, there had to be what, 15, 20 people are sitting there and our kids are playing in the water and hanging out and stuff like that. And all of a sudden we see Ty wander over to this group of people and he just walks up right in the middle of them and just starts a question. So he had been reading about, what was the verse that he was memorizing? You can do as great as works as Jesus did. Yeah. Yeah. If Christ Jesus lived the same spirit that lives in you who raised, you know, raised Christ.
You'll do greater things. Yeah. Yeah. And so he goes and he goes, hey, did you guys know that if the spirit of God lives inside of you, that's the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, then you can, you can, you know, be like Jesus, you can do what Jesus did.
And they're like, whose kid is this? Like what in the world? Yeah. Yeah. And so little did we know that.
And he started talking to them about his experiences overseas, how he'd seen blind eyes open, all these things. And this mom sneaks over to us and she's like, are you this kid's mom? I'm like, yeah. And she's like, my daughter over there was adopted from Russia or the Ukraine or something. And she's like, she's got a lot of issues, but she really wants to follow Jesus. Can you help her? And I said, yeah, send her to, we're staying in this place right here. Send her here tonight.
This growing up, giving her life to the Lord, getting baptized and getting deliverance and this pull on our vacation because my son mentioned one thing about Jesus to them. And then she ended up going into missions and really cool story. So yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So Ty is very special, but Ty also with, so this is one thing I really want women to understand is when you pursue abortion, even the thought. So what happened to me, I went to a Planned Parenthood cause I wanted to know my options. And again, remember I said, I felt like I was choking while I was in there. I couldn't make a decision. I couldn't make a clear conscious thought. So I had to get out of there. So my son Ty is 14 now, but a couple of years ago, we started to see some resistance in him, some frustration in him. And I looked at Justin, like, I know it's crazy, but I think he needs some deliverance, but he's been raised in such a spiritual bubble for most of his life now.
Like why? And one night we were actually doing deliverance on another woman. And when he came into the room, my son was manifesting and I was like, that's not my child. His eyes are black. He's angry.
This is not normal. And so I looked at him and I said, you need deliverance. And he was like, no, I don't. And I'm like, he does not talk to me like that.
And I'm like, Ty, like, yes you do. And he's like, I said, I'll give you one month to seek God on this. And if he tells you in one month that you're good, then you're good. But I said, and if one month, if your behavior hasn't changed, we're going to pray for you. Before we could even get to that one month process, he came to Justin and he's like, I need deliverance.
And I need it. We were on the way to basketball practice. And oddly enough, the church I gave my life to Christ in was where the basketball practice was. And we pulled into the parking lot and he's weeping. He said, dad, pray for me now. Pray for me now.
Pray for now. And I'm like, all right. So I pull in the back of that church parking lot and pray for him and ended up, I don't know if you want to share what happened. He ends up getting radical deliverance, but the very first thing that Justin cast out of him was a spirit of rejection from the womb. And when he started manifesting, it was pretty intense. And he just coughed up this nasty stuff. And he actually recorded it because he knew I would want to see or be a part because this, you know, and so I was watching it and I just started weeping. I'm like, Lord, like how in the world? And he said, Brooke, the moment you stepped into that place to make a decision was the moment you rejected that child.
And it attached to him. So your sin as a mother and a woman has effect on that baby in your womb, whether you choose to keep it or not. But is there forgiveness and hope?
Yes, there is. But hope and life is the option, is the choice. It should not even, why do we even have the first thought? Can I keep it? Why is that even a thought in our minds?
But it's because it's an option. It's the one of the first things we think about, you know, so. It's interesting because I had gotten you guys to pray for me when I was at, when I was at your house a little while ago.
And, and one of the things that, that I thought about maybe that same spirit of rejection, because my dad didn't want me or whatever. And so I totally get that. But you guys actually pray deliverance over women who have had abortions, right? Very often.
Yeah. It's honestly one of the most common things you hear when a woman sits in your house and wants deliverance, because people are very quick to open up in the setting and in the environment that we have them in. It's just a very comfortable environment. I feel like we're really easy people to talk to because we've been through it all.
You know, one of y'all were talking about that. It's easy to relate when you've been through it on. I tell people like, you can't tell me anything either I haven't done better than you or have or have been confessed from others. And so they open up and that one thing is always the last thing or the thing that has to be like pride out of their mouths because they can't speak it. And I'm like, why is that? Yeah.
Why is that? And it's because normally with these situations, like we've when it comes to abortion, many things can be attached to that shame and security, a spirit of murder we've cast out of a woman because that's what it is. Whether you realize that or not, you are taking the life of someone and you don't have the right to and it's premeditated. It wasn't an accident.
You know, you chose this. So that is a spirit of murder. And a lot of women who have experienced this, they deal with anger towards the other children they may have conceived after because they're still very angry with the choice that they made for one child or child after whatever the case may be. But to give you an example of a specific instance, we're praying for a woman and this is, you know, we preface this with this doesn't mean because we give this example, if you've done this, then you automatically have this.
That's not the case. But we're praying for a woman and this is the thing the Holy Spirit brought to our attention. And as soon as we exposed it, as soon as we called out what it is, she immediately had excruciating pain in her gut, in her stomach, almost like a knife carving in just by calling out that action of what took place. And we were able to pray and pray and pray and pray.
And this thing just completely released off of her. And the crazy thing was, is a lot of those feelings, that aggravation, that shame, the feeling, what we've heard the most out of anything is a lot of women will deal with, they say, I've repented of it. I've asked the Lord for forgiveness, but I don't feel forgiven. It's something that constantly feels like this black cloud over my head and they never seem to get over it. And so that was that spiritual aspect of the enemy holding it over their head. And once he was removed from the situation, all of a sudden they're like, I feel like something is lifted off of me. So it's a huge part of that starts with confession because anything kept in the dark will torment you.
So just confessing brings some type of relief and freedom, but then sometimes deliverance needs to take place because it's just rooted deeper than other situations. So yeah. I think this past Wednesday I went and I saw Justin cast a demon out of someone and I told Robbie Delmore, the Christian car, and I said, I've seen it with my own eyes.
It's real. So, uh, but, uh, Justin, you, you've got a YouTube channel and it's called unshakable kingdom. Is that right? That's right. And Justin has a new YouTube channel that has absolutely blown up.
This guy's got like 22,000 views, 19,000 views. So the name of the new show is called blessing boys. Is that right?
Yeah, that's right. Um, and you know, to close this out, I wanted to read something real quick. I was, when I was praying about this and thinking about it, one of the things that I thought about is it would be, it would be really easy for us not to talk about this subject.
Um, you know, this is what people consider a controversial subject. Um, but I do believe that we're coming to the place in America where I believe we're going to see persecution and I believe we're going to see intense persecution against Christians. And I think one of the things that we have to do, just like when I was reading Joshua 24 at the beginning is choose you this day whom you will serve.
That's right. Um, and so we have to, we have to choose to make a stand for what's true. And so I'm gonna read something that was, uh, supposedly written down just before a missionary was martyred in Zimbabwe and this is what he wrote. I'm now part of the fellowship of the unashamed. I have Holy Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made.
I'm a disciple of his. I won't look back, let up, slow down, back away or be still. My past is redeemed.
My present makes sense. My future is secure. I'm finished and down with low living, site walking, small planning, smooth knees, colorless dreams, tamed visions, mundane talking, cheap living, and dwarfed goals. I no longer need prominence, prosperity, position, promotions, plaudits, or popularity.
I don't have to be right, first, topped, tops, recognized, praised, regarded, or rewarded. I now live by faith. Lean on his presence. Walk by patience. Lift by prayer and labor by power. My face is set. My gate is fast.
My goal is heaven. My road is narrow. My way is rough. My companions are few.
My guide is reliable. My mission is clear. I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, deluded, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of the adversary, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity. I won't give up, shut up, let up, until I have stayed up, stored up, prayed up, paid up, and preached up for the cause of Christ. I am a disciple of his. I must go till he comes, give till I drop, preach till I'll know, and work until he stops me. And when he comes for his own, he will have no problem recognizing me. My banner will be clear." That's somebody who's not backing down.
And Justin and Brooke Noop, you guys aren't backing down either. Thank you so much for coming on again. Absolutely. My pleasure.
If not for God. All right. For my YouTube channel, If Not For God with Mike Zwick, just like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell so you'll be alerted when we have our next video.
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Whisper: medium.en / 2023-03-28 22:47:36 / 2023-03-28 23:01:17 / 14