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Visit PRCUA.org or contact your local PRC representative at 336-776-7456 PRCUA Life. Protecting life through all its stages. All right for my YouTube channel, if not for God with Mike Zwick, just like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell so you'll be alerted when we have our next video. Welcome to If Not For God, stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. If Not For God with Mike Zwick, we've got Justin Newt back for eight. He's back for a fourth episode, man. I don't think we're ever going to allow him to leave the Truth Network, so he's done absolutely great. The show's been a real hit and wanted to say, man, this is, you know, I'm sure there are some people who are thinking, okay, we've heard you talking about casting out demons.
Yeah. We've heard you talk about healing. We've heard you talk about everything that's going on in the world, but there's, I'm sure there's some people who are saying, Justin, well, what do I do with all of this information? Yeah, I think a lot of people hear where I'm at now, where we are at now as a family, or they hear testimonies of ministers that have been doing this for 10, 20, 30, 40 years, and they compare themselves to that person, and it seems quite the stretch to say, if that's normal light, I don't know how I could ever get to that place. And, but if you talk to a lot of these people, you realize that every single one of them had a journey of getting to where they're at. We all have, we all didn't start where we are. The Lord graciously accommodated where we were at, if you will, and took us on a journey to get to where we're going. So I would say, number one, take a deep breath and start where you are.
Where are you personally? You know, even when the Bible talks about the gifts of the spirit, it tells you to utilize them in accordance to your level of faith, right? Hey, prophesy according to your faith.
Do this according to your faith. Well, I say the same thing, cast out demons according to your faith. You know, I guess one of the encouraging things, and you had talked about this before, was that the first time you went to cast out a demon, you didn't have an instruction manual. So Jesus told us to cast out demons.
Maybe I'm missing something. He didn't really tell us exactly how to do it, did he? He did not. And not only that, he did it different ways in different instances. He did the same thing with healing. And so you've got to ask the question, Jesus, why did you choose to do it that way? Why didn't you give us some kind of systematic approach? And I think the answer to that is, is that human beings, ultimately, whenever we see some kind of systematic approach, we have a tendency to rely on the formula as opposed to rely on God or the Holy Spirit, who is actually in charge of doing what's getting done. Now, he wants to partner with us, and he has given us his authority to do these things, but we have to always come back to the place of dependency on the Holy Spirit.
So that's why it can look different in different instances. You might, you know, have an experience like our first deliverance, where the Lord just gave me a word to speak, and the woman started manifesting. Well, ask yourself this question, what would you do in that scenario?
Would you just leave her alone? I like to hear different perspectives, so I listen to even some former Calvinist teachers or theologians that are not cessationists. They're continuous. They believe in the gifts of the Spirit, but they don't operate in them, you know, a lot. But there's even a testimony you can find on YouTube of John Piper actually running into a demonized person in a situation where they had to cast a demon on. They're like, we didn't know what to do. We began singing hymns, and this was his one experience. And so the one thing I think I don't try to listen too much to people that have had one experience or they just believe in it in theory and they haven't done it.
We wouldn't do that anywhere else in the world. Like, you know, go to a trainer and he's like, hey, first day never worked out my life, but I'd love to help you. I want to listen to that guy.
He's like 375. You're like, so, you know, I'd definitely be wise. There's plenty of plenty of people out there that have been doing it for decades. And of course, look into scriptures and see what that says. But listen, we can take away these people's experiences against the scriptures and learn from each other. And so that's what I say. You know, step one would, like we talked about in the end of our last episode, would be start looking in the scriptures and see if this is something that you see talked about in the scriptures a lot, which I think you will, and see if this is something that is actually commanded or is it something that's only merely suggested?
Yeah, I think it's commanded. I mean, they talk about it again and again and again and again, whether it's, you know, speaking in tongues. I mean, it's talked about in the book of Acts.
And so I don't understand how you would say, well, that couldn't happen today. Now, now that's one of the gifts where it says, uh, is does everybody speak in tongues? I think it's first Corinthians 14, maybe, um, or first Corinthians 12, but we are supposed to seek the gifts of the spirit, you know, and another example that I've had, and I told you this before I was at the pool last summer. Yeah. Not the time when the storm clouds went away, but we had the, a little sound box that said the truth network that Stu had given me here. And I was playing Christian music and all of a sudden a guy went up to the, it went up to the speaker and gave the middle finger to the speaker. Yeah. That's not normal.
Like people don't normally do this. No. Yeah. And I realized something was going on with this guy. And so he walked right past me, but he would not look me in the eyes.
That's right. And I heard you talk about that in one of your tests that demons, they don't want to look you in the eyes. They don't like exposure.
They don't like exposure. And then he walked right past. So I didn't know what to do. So I just started praying and I just started praying, praying, praying. The guy went into his car.
He got a, got some headphones or whatever, and then came back. So I guess if nothing else, we can start praying for people. Right.
That's absolutely right. And I think this, this is from our own personal experience. This is how this kind of developed, you know, that first instance that we encountered, there was another six, six plus months where nothing happened and we're still just processing and praying. And then another instance happened. And then in 2018, I didn't actually get to the point of this testimony, but we had a woman reach out to us because when we started meeting in these fellowships in the home, people were saying like, I need to be baptized. People were getting born again in pools and bathtubs and all this stuff.
And it started to spread. People are witnessing that even our family members. And you know, one of our family members reached out to us and said, I need to be baptized. And I've had every time I opened the Bible, it's baptism, baptism, baptism. So the Lord is leading me to do this. So he said, sure, we'll, we'll baptize you.
And, and so this was, you know, we had only seen one other experience of demonic manifestation. So we called up a friend of ours who is now an extremely close friend of ours because she's been through this experience with us. And we said, Hey, can we use your pool?
It was the middle of summer in 2018. And so we go in and we, uh, bring this woman into the water and something we do, and I haven't mentioned this, but we always do, whether you've been in the church for 30 years or whatever, whatever your background is, is we preach the gospel. We share the gospel with people. We share the truth of Jesus Christ. I don't care what, I don't care if you're a pastor, uh, because Paul would, would repeat the same thing. Paul would, would repeatedly preach the good news of Christ, because I don't know what gospel you responded to. And I want to make sure that, that, that it's a biblical gospel.
And also you have to be putting your faith into something. And so we shared the gospel with this woman and believe it or not, even though she had been in the church for 20 plus years, she was still harboring some unforgiveness and bitterness. And so that gave opportunity when we said, is there anything you want to verbally repent of?
Is there anything that the Holy Spirit is highlighting for you to get rid of right now? So she literally repents of unforgiveness that she has held for years. This has created this beautiful opportunity where she is, she is literally parting ways with, with the, the old life. And so we baptize her under the water. We bring her back up. This is where it gets interesting.
Instead of just clapping our hands, like we normally do, nothing against that, but just saying, oh, great, you know, this is amazing. We waited and we watch and to, and, and we looked at her and she started to kind of like squirm and she started to kind of sway back and forth. And I looked at my wife and I'm like, something doesn't feel right about this.
And so I looked back at the woman and I said, all right, I'm going for it. I said, you unclean spirit. I command you to come out in the name of Jesus.
This woman's mouth opens wide. Remember church go or 20 plus years begins to let out these terrifying screams. Yeah. And manifest a demon in the pool. Our friend who had had only one previous experience with a deliverance was sitting on the edge of the pool. And we're like, get in here. This woman, I mean, the demon's trying to take her down into the water. So we're having to hold her so that she doesn't go under the water. This is not your typical baptism, right?
But we're starting to see this more and more. Like I told to you in our previous conversations, the act of water baptism is, is, is, is obedience to Christ. And if we put our faith in the action of, Hey, uh, we are actually parting ways with the old life.
We're going into the grave right now. Your faith could possibly irritate something demonic that is inside. And we've seen that time and time again, create a manifestation in someone during the act of water baptism. That's what this did. So we prayed and prayed and prayed, commanded this thing to come out.
This is, this is one of the craziest experiences I've had. So this woman, uh, and I don't know where your listeners stand on the gift of tongues and all that stuff, but she had never prayed in tongues, never anything like that, but she had been asking for the gift of tongues for quite some time and she had just never experienced it. So we pray for quite some time, probably close to an hour, uh, you know, which most Christians aren't willing to do, but we were just going after it. And we, when there's someone manifesting in front of you, what are you going to stop and say, all right, having us good luck. And so we were just going until, till, till it, till it came out and eventually it did.
So this thing powerfully released everybody standing around knew it. She falls back into the water. I have to catch her. And then she begins to pray out in tongues and the gift of tongues. And I mean, I'm like, am I in the Bible?
So you think that would be enough, right? Our friend behind us says, look and turns, no lie, a dove flies down and lands on the fence of the pool. And I'm like, as she begins to pray in tongues and all of this stuff. So we had encountered experiences like this. And this is what I want to say to the listeners, just following and obeying Jesus and that willingness for us to step out and obey, I believe stirred God's heart to begin to put people in our path that needed help.
I can almost guarantee you this. If you just open your heart, search in the scriptures and say, Lord, I want to help people. Every person that I've seen has done that all the sudden they get, you know, somebody from high school reaches out and they're like, Hey, I've been thinking about you or they run into somebody else. And then they open up about their life because now you are finally open and, you know, partially equipped to help people supernaturally with, with problems that you could have never touched with a 10 foot pole. And now in Christ, you are empowered to do so. So I truly believe he will begin to bring people in your path. He'll meet you basically.
Yes, you go out in the, in the authority of the gospel and the authority of Christ, but he's going to begin to bring people in your path. That's how it happened to us. And then it went from every six months to every three months to every month. Listen in 2019. So my wife got pregnant with our fourth child, 2019. We were doing deliverances almost probably six days a week.
Sometimes staying up until one o'clock in the morning in Alamance County. Okay. So I promise you, if you're open to this and you begin to tell the Holy Spirit, you begin to tell the God to use you, uh, you you've got a lot of work ahead of you because there's a lot of people that need freedom. And I don't try to convince, I really don't try to convince anybody. We've got enough people coming to us for help without me having to go out and chase people down and tell them they have demons.
If you don't believe it, I don't care. We just want to help the people that want to be helped. Well, and you actually said something to me, I think it was yesterday where you said, you know, we're to the point now where we, we, you're actually having to turn people away. You can't, you can't see everybody, right?
You wouldn't have a life. No. Yeah. Uh, we, we actually have, believe it or not, when I leave here today, this evening, we have one, uh, we've had to say, and people may have differences about this, but sometimes we'll schedule prayer time for people just because we're a busy family and stuff like that. So we're praying.
We have a deliverance scheduled for tonight this evening. Um, and then I had a guy from Louisiana just reach out to me, uh, last night, uh, through email, uh, asking for, uh, he needs deliverance. And so I actually have, how does that work if he's in Louisiana?
Well, well, believe it or not. And then, and then this weekend we had a woman drive down from, um, from Florida. So we've had people drive fly from, uh, Ohio, Florida, different places we've traveled up to Canada. And, uh, we've got some friends in Canada that have started a group, a fellowship up there.
And we, what we'll do is we'll go into a place and we'll have a meeting and we'll begin to just share the gospel, share what God's doing, and then we'll open up a time of prayer. And I'll tell you what the, the biggest thing to, to break the argument, Derek Prince will say this too. When he first got into deliverances, he came from a Pentecostal background, which I believe strongly, uh, from what I understand that Christians cannot have demons. That's the background he came from. And he was pastoring a church. Well, he had a, uh, his, his organ player was the first one to manifest a demon in front of the whole congregation.
And, uh, and they cast that demon out of that woman, the demon spoke out of the woman, you know, said, uh, he commanded it to say, what is your name? And it said lies. And you can find this testimony online. It's all, I think he said it's actually recorded.
The event is recorded. And he said, I never had to argue with a single person in that congregation. They saw it themselves. Matter of fact, uh, you know, if you go to the book of acts, acts two, acts two, starting in 16, uh, acts two 16, it says, no, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel. It says in the last days, God says, I will pour out my spirit on all people.
That's right. Your sons and your daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams. And I think we were talking about this yesterday too, where that, Hey, you're not forcing anybody to do this. You're not forcing anybody to believe this. If you're listening to this today and, and you don't want the gifts of the spirit, you don't have to have it. God gives us a choice. That's right.
He sure does. But you said it can also be pretty darn exciting too, right? Yeah, absolutely. It's a, it definitely comes with a cost, which I think following Jesus, like the Bible instructs us to do, as you mentioned earlier, comes with persecution. It comes with the cost. It comes with people looking at you like you're abnormal when you're just trying to be normal.
According to what the Bible says, uh, it does come with a cost, but it's completely worth it. I'll tell you what, that some of the most beautiful moments have been literally earlier in the day, we've had someone make up a rumor about us or, or say we, you know, we're unloving or we do something weird or something like that. And then literally after having you on my show, I'm not going to do that anymore.
Real experience we had a week ago. And I literally, we, we talked with a couple, prayed for a man and a man. He's actually ordained minister and no longer in actively involved in ministry, but he is he's ordained and we pray to stuff. And he's like, listen, I'm just open for whatever God wants to do. And I'm like, you're going to get free because he's like, I know what I have is tormenting. I know it's not of God.
I know it needs to go. I'm open to whatever God wants to do. We prayed for him. He began to manifest, uh, within minutes and, uh, fell to the floor and he did vomit. And, you know, sometimes it looks like that and he gets completely set free and I'm on the ground just weeping with this man, his tears are pouring down his face. And I mean, he is just crying, God, thank you.
Because he's been in bondage to this thing. He said this to me, he said, when, when he got delivered, he said, he didn't realize what it was like to have peace of mind. He said, my mind used to race thoughts all the time. So he dealt with insomnia. My mind was racing all the time. There was never a time where I didn't have thoughts bouncing in my head. And he's like, it's so quiet right now. I don't even know what to do. Cause I hear nothing.
He's like, I've never heard nothing. And then he begins to cry. And so when you experience freedom, true freedom like that. Yeah.
Yeah. You should know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Christ sets you free. The cross accomplishes everything, but sometimes there's an actual working out of those things that needs to take place. Otherwise the ministry of deliverance is irrelevant. If everything just happens at salvation, then just get people saved and move on. Nobody should be dealing with any kinds of problems, but Jesus and his apostles and his disciples and the early church operated in the ministry of deliverance. And we call it the ministry of the deliverance. There is no ministry of deliverance.
There's the ministry of Jesus and he cast out demons. So we should do it too. What is the next step for you? Is there a vision that you have a year or five years from now? Where do you see God taking?
Yeah. A lot of, a lot of people have this, this ministry vision, vision, right? They want to build their vision, but the Lord told us I had a dream very early on a few years back before we got into anything, because we were going to follow the typical, the typical ministry path, which is build your ministry, grow, grow the ministry and things like that.
But the Lord revealed to him, he's like, do you want to build my kingdom or your kingdom? And so I actually had a dream. And in this dream, I was walking up a set of steps and there was a, uh, this, this public figure at the top. He was symbolically in my dream. He was a public minister, somebody that everybody knows and knows as a speaker from the stage. And I go up to shake his hand and three times I try to shake his hand and our thumbs hit each other and we can't shake hands.
Like they just won't. And oddly enough, sometimes people talk about the five-fold ministry and the thumb represents the apostolic. So I believe that the Lord was saying like, Hey, there's, there's something apostolic that I want you guys to do, uh, here.
And if you try to get underneath a ministry, you guys are going to butt heads. Do you mean there's something I'm trying to do through you? But regardless of that, I remember he said, he said to me, he said, uh, uh, he said, well, we tried and he turned over and he walked to my left, his right. And he got on a stage and he began to preach and there was lights and there was a crowd. And I knew in my heart, I had to go to the right.
And when I looked to the right, all I saw was an open field. Okay. And then I walked down, went on the field and I woke up and the Lord showed me, he said, uh, he said, there's something I want you guys to do, and it's going to involve building from the ground up. And it's going to be something that doesn't look like the typical ministry model. But what I want to do through you is create a multi-generational movement that eventually your name may not even be attached to, but it continues to multiply outward because a lot of times in the typical ministry model, we're in addition mode. So we just add people to our ministry, but what we try to do is equip and train believers, send them out into their sphere of influence. Then they can therefore multiply outward. That's the model that we see in the early church in the book of acts. That's the model that we see in a lot of discipleship making movements, uh, overseas and in different places.
And those are the things that rapidly and organically reproduce. That's that. So when you say gold, do I have a set goal? No, I want to see people impacted by Christ. And I want to see, you know, what God has done through me or what, you know, what I've done for God impact generations to come. Uh, I don't want to just look, it's basically, it's going to be stuff that I can't measure. And that's challenging to me.
I'm sure that's challenging to a lot of us because we've always been taught to do it the way that other guys doing it with the lights and a church and a stuff like that, you know, but one of the things that I really liked about what you said on the way over here was you said, I'm not trying to control everything. That's right. That's right.
Yeah. I think, I think you can, in order to get, in order to get, uh, say if you use the illustration of cattle, you can either build a fence around those cattle, right. Or you can dig a well that they can drink from.
So that makes sense. That's the difference between trying to control a movement, trying to control people. I can keep people by trying to control and limit them and, and, and nitpick what they do, or I can introduce them to Christ in the, in what he commanded that to do that Christ would be the well that they'll drink from. And then that's, what's actually going to draw people into the community.
Uh, but then you don't have to stay. So this is, this is the way, if that doesn't make sense, this is the way that I look at it. When Jesus talked to, I don't know how much, how much time we have, but when, when Jesus, uh, talked to, I believe it was Nicodemus, he was talking about being born again. And he said, if you don't understand the physical things, how are you going to understand the spiritual things that I'm speaking of? Right. So I think in certain things, there, there is, is purpose in creation. There's purpose. God displays his attributes through creation.
Right. So this is a question that I had for God. What do you, what was the family unit really, uh, created for? Why did you design the family unit? Like you did like a mother and a father and a children. And then what happens when the children grow up? Do they stay with mom and dad? Do they invite their spouse in to live in the home?
We would call that an unhealthy home. That would be out of the ordinary, but actually what happens is you raise up children, you send them out to start their own families. And that's actually the original commission of how to reproduce and fill the earth.
Right? What if God was showing us something about how the church was supposed to work in that way? What if as leaders in the church, we're actually supposed to write, raise up children in the faith, equip them, send them out to start their own families and how successful we are as parents would not be based on the growth of our ministry and our personal success, but it would be measured by the success of our children, of our disciples. So once I figured out that, once I started measuring my success based on the impact I have on other people and not my own personal ministry, it drove me in a different way. When you do things for unselfish reasons, you tend to get more excited about it because it's not all about you and having to build up my ministry or whatever. And then you know that you're doing it for truly benevolent purposes.
Yeah. It relieves a lot of pressure too. I don't want that pressure. I served in ministry at a church too, and we were very small and we even led worship for a youth group. And I taught from time to time there and the pressure that I put on myself to perform, and we've met this with other people that have come out of, say there were worship leaders at one point, there's this pressure that they put on themselves to perform because if they don't perform, then God's not going to be able to move or whatever.
I'm like, once I start feeling that type of unhealthy pressure on myself, I know that I'm depending too much on myself. And so I just want to depend on God and utilize a healthy structure. But the purpose of the structure is meant to keep people, to help people stay on a path of pursuing Christ. It's not meant to control people and keep people under my care, under my authority. When I look at what was happening in Jesus's day, and maybe even in the first century, I'm sure it was a little bit different than maybe what we see a lot now where it wasn't just about coming to some church building on Sunday.
They were actually going out. Matter of fact, Jesus said, he said, and I like where you kind of take the pressure off of yourselves because he says, you go out to a certain town, he says, don't even take anything with you. And he says, anybody who will not listen to you, shake the dust off of your shoes or off of your sandals. He says, it'll be worse.
It'll be easier for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that city. And I think when you're doing it to truly help people, but also saying, hey, look, I can't control how they're going to react to this. And I think you even said before, hey, if somebody doesn't want to listen to me, that's fine. But that you still go out there and you share the truth of Jesus Christ, but if they don't receive it, you've done your part. That's right.
Absolutely. A lot of this, we learned on the mission field too. We went out and we're like, so we were using a type of evangelism in a model of church on the mission field that seemed to be working fantastic, and it was really good for organic growth, spontaneous growth. Listen, the church, the church is organic, it's living, it's alive, right?
So it should reproduce like anything that is alive. But why, why when Jesus says, I'll build my church, right? He commands us to go make disciples and says, I will build my church. But what we do is we say, no, I'll build the church and we'll make discipleship a program.
He said, no, no, no, no, no. Why are you working backwards? So the typical, not, not, and this is not, this is just saying, hey, let's work with some different ideas to see if we're doing this the biblical way. We have a business mentality.
Okay. Which means that we have to create the structure first. And then we fill the structure with people in programs. Jesus said, convert the disciples first, build the structure around the disciples to facilitate them. Not the other way around, which is why we run into a lot of issues and we end up having to run a lot of our churches like businesses instead of an organic family. Remember going back to the idea of a family, a family is a, is a, is a mom and dad that are, are, that, that have the time and that care for their family and stuff like this. And this is not, I'm not saying this as criticism.
I'm just saying this is, is maybe we can start to talk about these different ideas of what, what can work for actual organic growth. Like we've seen in the early church. Absolutely. And Justin, I think we're, we're just about out of time. I'm so glad you could come on today. We've done four shows who knew. And, uh, you know, if people want to check you out, they can go to unshakable kingdom.
You can search that on YouTube. And so you'll find our channel. We've got an email address on there. If you want to reach out to us personally, you can also find me on Facebook under my name, Justin Neup, K N O O P or on Tik TOK. If you're into that kind of thing under the same name, there you go.
If not for God. All right. For my YouTube channel, if not for God with Mike Zwick, just like subscribe and hit that notification bell.
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