This is the Truth Network. Welcome to If Not Forgot. Stories of Hopelessness That Turn to Hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. The outreach over to the students at Elon University.
Once again, welcome to the show, Daniel. Thank you, right? Yep, you're welcome. We talked about in the last show. Number one, what is the origin of Islam?
And it was basically, from what I understand, that an angel came down to Muhammad, and then it went from there. After that, do they assimilate? in American society or in any society. And the answer to that is an astounding no. They, you know, Christians, we tend to use our Christianity and we want to use it by persuasion.
That's how we persuade people to become Christians. But if not, then that's their choice. But in Islam, I assume they probably try to first persuade, but then after that, they're able to use force according to the Quran. Even to go ahead and force their religion on other people as well. And so, one of the things that we didn't really get into, Daniel, on the last show is: is Islam the religion of peace?
Now, at the end of the show, I ended up saying. That the top 20 terrorist organizations in the world are all Muslim.
Well, to me, that tells me something. Yes, it does.
So, first and foremost, when we think about the nature of Islam, we have to understand what the word Islam means: it means submit.
So, and ultimately, not just submit to just God in general, it means submit to Allah and the teachings of Muhammad. And so, when we understand that, we better understand the Muslim mentality. And so, as I said in the last interview, to understand the religion of Islam is to understand the Quran, but to also understand the man, so the book and the man. And in so doing, we see that at the beginning. Aspects of Muhammad's life after over the period of time of him receiving these recitations that also became codified in the Quran.
We see that the early period, which is known as the Medina period, that there is quotes in the Quran during that early time period that will sound very. Congenial. It will sound very, you have your religion, I have my religion. Let's come together and let me persuade you why Allah is the true God. And.
The Christians and the Jews and the pagans, polytheists, why they have corruptions and why you need to embrace the Islamic faith. But then later on, When you track and you learn the history of the expansion of the religion, you see that for various different reasons, it's not defensive reasons. There were some defensive wars in Islam, but most of them were offensive wars, meaning that we're on the attack. That over time, the later surahs, which is the Arabic term for verses, the later surahs or chapters, sorry, ayah is the verse, the later chapters in the Quran are more violent and attacking the Christians, attacking the Jews, attacking the polytheists. In the biography of Muhammad, in one of the Hadiths, it quotes basically if there is the stones will cry out and will say, There's a Jew behind me, slay him.
In the latter days, they're very the Islamic literature, both in the later writings of the Imams as well as the. The foundations of the Islamic faith have a very apocalyptic nature to them.
So they're always talking about the last day and things of that nature. And so there are aspects, as I said in the last interview, that sound very Christian, that sound very Jewish, because they're taking from the Jewish and Christian scriptures and attributing them to their own religion.
Well, the Mom Donnie, and I don't know if you've recently heard this, the mayor of New York. He just said that if Netanyahu comes here, the prime minister of Israel comes to New York, he's going to have him arrested when he comes to the UN. You know, in the Bible, the Bible says in 2 Timothy 3:12, it says, Yea, and all who will live a godly life in Christ Jesus. Shall suffer persecution, it doesn't say we might. Uh, Jesus said that, and he's talking about this in the book of Revelation as well as in the book of Matthew and other places as well.
That if we're Christians, that we are going to suffer persecutions. And he said, If you're faithful unto death, he said, I will give you the crown of life.
So, maybe trying to understand where mom Donnie is coming from, he probably doesn't believe in the LGBTQ movement if he's a true Muslim. He probably is against abortion if he's a true Muslim, doesn't believe in alcohol, all of this stuff. But there is something in Islam that is called taqiyyah. Can you explain that? Yeah, so I think what you're referring to and wanting me to share on is this idea that Whatever advances the religion is the end goal.
So, there is, in my experience, I've experienced this directly. I've been to meetings where there are imams, Muslim leaders, that are in fellowship with liberal pastors, liberal Christian pastors that are at these conferences where they are celebrating LGBT and celebrating all these other things that are anathema to the religion of Islam as well as biblical Christianity. But they use that to their advantage. And so, whatever this idea in Christianity, we have this very strong idea and concept of being honest, being truthful, no matter the cost. In Islam, it's this understanding of whatever advances the cause.
For the religion is the principle that is the end goal. The end justifies the means, basically. And so. With that, one of the things that has been a reoccurring problem in Western culture is this idea of seeing that. Religious truth claims and ideological truth claims can kind of coexist together even if they don't don't.
Don't foundationally mix. And so there's these people out on college campuses that are like. Holding signs saying, like, queers for Palestine, or you know, queers for Amos, and things of that nature. But if they lived in those countries, People that identify as queer, LGBT, etc., wouldn't be living. I've read records, I've seen documentaries regarding their strong limitations and strong penalties for practicing sodomy and practicing those things.
So, whether Madani actually believes in the principles of LGBT, I don't think he probably does. I think it's whatever wins him the ability to have more persuasion and more power within his particular role But generally speaking, yes. The average Muslim, no one should come. at the position when you're talking to a Muslim or talking to anyone. or talking to anyone that That you have to always be on guard, that they're always trying to trick you or trying to deceive you.
We as Christians should. Be honest, be forthright, and should take people at their word, but at the same time. Jesus says to be wise as serpents, harmless as doves. And so with that, That's not saying deceive people, it's saying Be among many other things, it's saying Type. take honestly what their religion, what their beliefs say.
And so when you're witnessing to a Muslim or you befriend a Muslim, don't always assume that they're always trying to trick you or deceive you, but also understand that if they are consistent with their bel religion, that their religion dictates that they advance the religion and its belief systems no matter the cost. No matter the cost at all. And so we've talked about this a little bit before the show as well. But, you know, we will say, hey, that this is a, you know, that Islam is not the religion of peace. But then the skeptics, including you had mentioned the new atheist movement, will actually say, well, no, Christianity has caused more wars and Christianity has been very violent over the years.
How would you respond to that? Right, well, so. Christianity and the tea the the rel the The people who proclaim Christianity as the reason that they're going out to fight certain wars. Each war throughout history has to be taken. In its time, in its place, for the reasons that it was performed.
So, this isn't a cross-the-board statement, but Christianity and the teachings of Christ do not advance the idea that you subjugate people just because you want to take over their lands. The idea, Mike asked me this earlier. There's different beliefs on this, but one of the historic traditions throughout the going back to a lot of the early church fathers is the idea of just war theory. It's among many other things. The basic idea is that to stop evil, there is a time and place to protect the innocent, to protect the vulnerable.
And so, Christianity calls us to lay down our lives for the gospel, for Christ. But in so doing, there is also times and places where Christ calls us The scripture calls us in its entirety to also protect the innocent, to protect the vulnerable.
So when, say, in the In the ancient times, there were times where the early church was faced with being persecuted, being sawed asunder, as it says in the book of Hebrews. They laid down their lives for their Christian witness. But it also talks about discipling the nations. And so, one of the things, from at least my perspective, that ultimately when a nation Becomes Christianized, they should institute and have Christian laws and Christian principles.
Now, when the early church was in the Greco-Roman period, they were a minority. They weren't the majority. But If a Christian should be Believing in Christian principles, they also want to defend the weak, the vulnerable. And so for myself, There is different positions on this, but I do believe that If I was a a A soldier in Great Britain during the time of World War II, and my homeland was being attacked. First and foremost, my belief is to be a Christian witness and to share the gospel.
But I also believe that be At least historically, it may not really be today, but the English common law is based on Old Testament and New Testament principles about justice and mercy and biblical ethics. That when the Nazis were invading Europe and trying to subjugate people to their ideology and desecrating and massacring people and synagogues and churches, that I do believe that there is a time and place to defend women and children. And that is not the principle, though, that you see as the reason for jihad in Islam.
Some defensive warfare, but most of it is offensive warfare, meaning they are advancing their religion, not advancing their religion by force, not by persuasion.
So there's a difference. And I think some of the people today who are coming against Christianity or especially even Israel would point to what the U.S. is doing right now over in Iran. And I think, you know. But when you look at it from an outside perspective and you try to be fair about it, you can look at this and say President Trump did everything that he could do to try to prevent war in Iran.
But when we're trying to save helpless people and when we're trying to save people, and this was talked about, there are many Christians in Iran and other countries as well who are being suppressed by Islam. It was something that I believe President Trump did as a last resort.
Now, there are Christian denominations. And we talked about this before, who are pacifists.
So there are differences within Christianity, just as I'm sure there are differences in Islam, where there are some people who would call themselves Muslim, but who would never hurt a fly, who would not want to kill anybody or hurt anybody. But at the same time, I've also heard people say that if somebody is going to take seriously Islam, There are many verses that are in the Quran that do point to murder or to. Violent ways of taking over. And I've got a few for you right here. This one right here says, You will kill non-Muslims to receive 72 virgins in heaven.
Quran 9, 111. You will kill anyone who leaves Islam. Koran 2 to 17. The third one, you will behead non-Muslims. Koran 8.12 and 47.4.
Another one you will kill and be killed for Allah. Verse of the sword, Koran nine five You will terrorize non-Muslims. Koran eight twelve and eight sixty. Another one says to steal from non-Muslims. Quran chapter eight The Booty The Spoils of War and And the next one is to lie to strengthen Islam.
What we were talking about, taqiyah and deception, which is Quran 328, 354, 9.3, 16, 106, and 40, 28.
So they live by a different set of rules than we do as Christians. Yeah, that is true. One of the principles that I think is important.
So, as you were saying, Mike earlier, there is variations within the average Muslim you might meet on the street.
So, the average Muslim, some may not really be aware of what the biography, the sirah, or the hadith, the sayings and actions of Muhammad are, or even sometimes what's completely in the Quran.
So, one of the things that sometimes people misunderstand is that the average Muslim, especially one that grows up in Islam, they are similar in a way, and without offending any Catholics on here, kind of like many years ago, a long time ago, when before the Reformation, there was the Latin Mass, and people would go to the Latin Mass, recite the Mass and the prayers and the practices in Latin, but really did not read the Bible for themselves and only what was knew about Christianity based on what the priests said. variations of different sects of Islam. Yeah. Kind of sanitize, if you will, certain aspects of Islam. But with the rise, among many other reasons, the rise of the internet has given the ability for the average Muslim to look up, even if they're in the Middle East or even if they're in Canada, the U.S., to look up what the Hadith says on certain matters, what is the biography of Muhammad, what do they say about him and the teachings of their religion.
And so that is one of the reasons why I said earlier about the Salafi or the Wahhabi movement. There's different movements, different sects of Islam. But one of the things that we need to understand is. They have a very Um Apocalyptic thinking mentality, if you really get down to the bare bones, when you look, I actually have a copy here, but I won't read it for the sake of time. But I have a copy of the founding documents of Hamas.
And in those founding documents, you see that they're constantly quoting the Quran, they're constantly quoting the life of Muhammad, but they're all apocalyptic. They're quotations regarding the end of days, the last day, about the Ummah, which is basically the Ummah is this idea of the worldwide. People of Islam. Like we talk about the universal church, the kind of the Catholic, quote unquote, small city Catholic universal church. Theirs is the ummah, the worldwide people of Islam.
And about the in Islam, there is There's the aspect of what's known, and I won't say the Arabic terms, basically in English, there's the house of Islam, which is the lands that are conquered and subjugated to Islam. There's the house of war, which is the lands that are not subjugated yet to Islam that they see as needing to be subjugated and taken. And so there is, and then there's a small minority throughout history called the that they refer to as the house of treaty. But most of the time, it's the house of Islam, which is the lands under domination, Islamic domination, of the house of war.
So that is a clear principle throughout whatever the sect of Islam, that's a clear principle that defines how they see. Worldwide Islam and its relationship to other cultures.
So that's why I said earlier: ultimately, there will be some type of theos, some type of God, whether it's the idea that man is the arbiter of all truth, or that there's a God, some type of God, that defines morality, ethics, truth itself. Yeah, that makes sense. And one of the things that I thought about as you were talking was that. In Islam uh People will say we're the religion of peace. Even Prince William, I think, said that in some recent comments.
But When you look at it, I actually interviewed a guy who was a former Muslim. And some of the best Muslims to talk about Islam to are the ones who were actually in it. And he said, you know, we were talking about is Islam the religion of peace? And somebody said, well, there's some nice people and this and that. But this former Muslim asked a Christian, he said, Would you want to go and live?
over in Iran right now. Around a bunch of, would you want to go and live as a Christian in a predominantly Muslim nation? And he said the answer to that is no, because what I've heard that they do. Is that yes, first they'll try to persuade you, but if not, they will also impose a tax upon non-Muslims as well. Yeah, Zakot.
Or not Zakot. Um That's the zakat is the the the the alms giving. The um Yes, there's a practice that the idea of There is a Taxation that basically, if you don't convert to Islam, that you will either be killed or you will pay a heavy tax. It basically is this idea that you can live in this country, but you are a second-class or low-class citizen who does not have rights. The jizya?
The jizya, thank you.
Sometimes my mind blanks there, but zakat is what Muslims do for almsgiving. But yes, the jizya. The jizya is this idea that. You can live in our lands, but you're basically going to have no rights. You can't build churches.
You can't practice your Christianity openly. Women do not have an ability to practice what we would see as biblical marriage, Christian marriage in the open in regards to certain practices. They're very restrictive and they. when it comes to Court decisions, many ways, kind of like in the first century, regarding the Greco-Roman perspective, they see a Christian as a subject of the Islamic state or the subject of the Islamic culture, and as something that can be and will be used. If it so desires for the proclamation of the religion, because it's a subject, it's not free, it's under bondage.
Wow, I mean, that's pretty serious. And so, if I'm a Christian, the only reason why I would want to move over to a Muslim nation would be to share the gospel. But that is a very important reason to go into it. And there are Muslims, I've heard, many Muslims, who are coming to Christ. And many of them, I've heard, are coming through dreams and visions.
Have you heard that as well? Yes, I have. And I definitely believe that God uses many different means to reach people all over the world, Muslim or Hindu or et cetera, through dreams and visions, through missionaries, reaching them with the gospel of Christ. And so I believe that we are called to share the gospel, whether it's in our homeland or in a far off distant country in the Middle East or in Southeast Asia or elsewhere. We're called to go to places that may be dangerous and we may have to truly.
Lay down our lives for the sake of Christ. I have friends that are missionaries in lands that it is illegal to be a Christian and it is dangerous. But I have seen God use them and their testimony. One thing, if I could real briefly share, Mike was sharing with somebody recently, and I overheard him mention about this idea of seeing the Christian witness, seeing the witness, that a non-believer seeing the witness of a Christian and how that can impact them. I have a friend.
who's a missionary. To the Islamic culture on the other side of the world, and he is friends with a pastor who knew directly the Coptic Christians that laid down their lives back several years ago. And one of the testimonies that came from that. One of the individuals, one of the Muslims that was there. For the beheading of these Coptic Christians, that he saw their witness, he saw their testimony.
and he did not want to follow after a religion that Of Islam anymore, and he was willing to bend his knees and to die with the rest of the Coptic Christians because he saw their witness and wanted to find that same peace and that same relationship with the one true God.
So even in the face of death, It's not just visions and dreams, though I believe that that is happening, but it's also by the Christian witness of them laying down their lives. is a witness in and of itself to the Muslim. Because in Islam Yeah, you can you'll die for for the religion, but to die w uh willfully and not just take the easy way out is is is a is amazing thing f to a Muslim. It is, and what you're referring to was in February of 2015, militants affiliated with the Islamic State kidnapped, tortured, and brutally beheaded 21 Christian migrant workers on a beach in Libya. The victims included 20 Coptic Christians, Orthodox Christians, and one man from Ghana.
And the story goes that as they were finishing up and as everything was going down and all of that, this man from Ghana saw the rest of them. And he saw how they would not deny Christ and how they lived for him. And so the plan of the Muslims was to get the man from Ghana. To deny Christ first, and then they figured that the rest of them would fall online. But then, supposedly, when they were about to behead him, He looked at them and he said, You see their God?
He said, It's my God. And he was the first to be martyred.
So, you know, the Bible says, If anybody asks you for the hope that you have within you, he said, Always be willing to give an answer. And so, we have that hope, we have that answer in Jesus Christ. If we finish up, I want to thank you, Daniel, for coming on today. Daniel Merrill from CrossX Change. You can go to crossexchange.org or go to CrossXChange on Facebook or Instagram and TikTok and follow them there.
So, thanks for coming on. I was thinking. All right, for my YouTube channel. If not for God with mighty wick. Just like subscribe and hit that notification bell.
So, you'll be alerted when we have our next video.
