This is the Truth Network. Is there power enough? to change somebody. who has been living the pride lifestyle the lgbtq lifestyle can the lord even make a change in them There is power in the blood. Power in the blood.
And I've got Stephen Black back again for a second show. Stephen, you're out of Oklahoma, is that right? Correct. Oklahoma City. And you grew up, as we spoke about in the last show briefly, you grew up and you were you had a, I guess, a difficult childhood.
So I really I even had a belief in God as a little boy, but unfortunately, as happens with many, and many of the men that I've ministered to all over the world. Is that a friend of the family was in this case was a uh uh a senior in high school and I was six. And he molested me. He was babysitting me. But it didn't.
And here's the thing about the development of homosexuality or even sexually promiscuity in people where they become sex addicts. Is usually abuse in the background. And we say the word molestation or abuse, and for many that conjures up pain. Or something terrible that happened that felt awful. And the reality is, is that most children.
do not view it that way. They they they they and abuse victims. The shame toxicity enters in with children Who, you know, their abusers are telling them how much they love them and that it feels good. And, you know, so that brings this all this distorted thinking. And that certainly happened to me, happened again.
Another man visiting the next-door neighbors from out of town followed me into the garage in a hot, hot Oklahoma summer as I'm putting up a croquet set. We have been playing yard croquet. And he closes the door, and I wasn't really paying attention as a 10-year-old boy. Jumps over the top of me and. Puts his hands on me and starts telling me because I wasn't wearing a shirt and only cut off.
Shorts with back then flip-flops, and we used to call them thongs.
Now we don't say that, they're flip-flops. Anyhow, he was like, he blamed me. And this is what abuse victim abusers will do to their victims. They'll blame them for the abuse and make them feel shameful.
So, a lot of therapy and counseling for people that have been abused is a need that was certainly a part of my history. And then, unfortunately, I had things, terrible things happen in high school. People led me, honestly, into a gay world I didn't even know existed. And then I met the rich and powerful as I was studying to be an architect, even in high school. And um and Came as ugly as it sounds, is came kind of like a boy toy to some very powerful and rich men in our city.
and uh and lived in that kind of dark life until age twenty two. And then the Lord saved you out of that. Oh, it was amazing.
So, a year and a half before that, and some people say, Well, you probably got saved then. No, a year and a half before that is when I started calling out to the Lord with my little brother, who was 18 months younger, had a set of twins 18 months younger, his sister too, my sister. Um He died in Germany on Mother's Day on at age 18, and it wrecked our family and it propelled me into those. Childhood pictures of heaven and hell. And I couldn't stop thinking about it.
And I started praying, you know, God, if you're really there, if you're really will, show me. And where is my brother Chris? Is he in heaven or hell? And then I was ripe for the picking.
So on February 6, 1983. I had been out partying the night before with a friend. We end up in their sister's house the next day. And I remember because it was a Sunday and I felt like I should have gone to Mass that day, but had been out partying. We went to their home.
And this incredible presence was there. And I didn't know at first what was going on. And they were all talking about Jesus in ways I've never heard. And I thought these people were crazy, honestly, because Jesus was talking to them. And I was like, well, Jesus doesn't talk to me.
I want to know how. How can you hear Jesus? And of course, his word and his perfect ways, they were dedicated Christians. And the ladies were all talking. They left the room and I was just there.
By myself with this man, his name was Steve too. And my heart started pounding, and I heard this voice: if you do not accept me tonight, you're going to die. And that's when I looked over at him and I said, Hey, um I need to know Jesus like you people know Jesus. And he came and he prayed with me and. I saw Christ on the cross alive, suffering, dying for me in that prayer.
And all my sin came up and out of me and went into his body, and I've never been the same since. You said you s you physically saw Christ? In my mind's eye. Jesus wasn't like in in in All Catholic churches, there's always a crucifix, right? And as we were praying, in my mind's eye, Jesus was alive on the cross and he was suffering.
As we prayed, and I could see my sin going out of my body and into his body. And that's what it says in 2 Corinthians 5:21, he who knew no sin. Became sin on our behalf, that we on our part, that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. And It is a miraculous thing that the creator of the universe would take incarnation and put on human form to be our sacrifice. And I totally understood finally for the first time that night and really put my faith in Jesus.
And then on the way home, Mary, my friend, asked me, So, does this mean you're not going to be gay anymore? And I, you know, I didn't know how to answer at the moment. I said, I guess it means whatever Jesus has for me. And that's when I went home and I literally have the old. Table, Bible.
That my parents have at my office. This thing was like six inches thick. This thing's big, and it's from the Vatican and the Blessed Pope version of the Duway Catholic Bible. I mean, where does one go to find truth in that? But Michael, I literally prayed over that book.
And where my parents' priest were trying to seduce me, and all the more reason to come to Mass. I flipped open the Bible and found Leviticus 18. Verse 22, where it says, Man shall not lie with another man as he does with a man, as he does with a woman. If he does such an act, it's detestable or an abomination. And I didn't even know what that word abomination meant, except that I could just.
Sense that it meant something really, really terrible. And I got down and prayed after I saw that there was another verse, 20, chapter 20, verse 13, and I saw that I should be put to death. I was kind of angry. that man it was here all the time. And I didn't know, and it was in the Bible.
I got down on my knees that night and I said, God, I. I don't know how to change, but if you can change me here, I'm here, I'm yours. I've never been the same since. Um, did all of the desires leave you at that point? Oh, no, of course not.
I was a sex addict and I had to learn to die to myself. Thank God, though. I never did acting out again. Um And so grateful for decades of sobriety, but doesn't mean I couldn't have or given the right situation and even had some propositions. But when you have accountability and boundaries, It's a wise thing, you know, because it keeps you safe.
A wise person knows his vulnerabilities. And so that's the only thing keeping, you know, the fear of the Lord was a firm foundation for me. There's so many things that God did in my life, but that very night, He warned me if I didn't accept Him, I was going to die.
Well, by the time I married my wife three years later, Um More than half the people I knew in the gay community were dead. And even so, even after I got married, there were times when I felt somewhat tempted. But as you keep your mind pure and as you keep your mind away from pornography and lusting and away from bad environments, you actually can see and sense the cleansing power of the grace of God and being able to take your thoughts captive and not identify as something perverse and broken, but to actually bring on and take on the identity of Jesus Christ and what He's given us. Yeah, I know.
So I'm a long answer, but yes and no. I mean, did I ever go back? No. And am I going to go back? No.
Could I go back? Of course. Anybody can go back. Yeah, I mean, the devil will take you out any way that he can. But I'm looking at Ephesians chapter 6, verse 10, and it says, Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.
Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand. Against the schemes of the devil. 2 Timothy 1:7 says, For God gave us a spirit, not of fear, but of power and of love and of self-control. 1 Corinthians 16, 13, be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. In Isaiah 40, 29, he says he gives power.
To the faint, and to him who has no might, he increases strength.
So there is power in the word of God. We have authority in the name of Jesus Christ. And I wonder if some people, Stephen, if they just don't know the power and the authority that they have in Jesus Christ.
Well, I certainly didn't when I was a new believer and even learning how to walk out.
Now, my situation was a little bit extraordinary in that I had an encounter with God.
Some people don't get that. And then I was a part of the revival movement in the full, what was called the fullness movement in the 70s and 80s. Out of the Southern Baptists, where a lot of people got filled with the Spirit of God. A lot of miracles happened, worship was restored, a lot of amazing things. Like James Robinson recently passed away, he was a part of that movement.
And I was a part of that. And so I got to actually see some miracles and the power of God that really ruined me for the glory of God. In that I was, when I say ruin, I mean I wasn't going to live any other way. There's no other way. Like when the disciples said in John 6, you know, Lord, you're the one who has eternal words of eternal life.
Where can we go? You know, when they were talking about eating his flesh and drinking his blood, Jesus said, You know, are you going to go away too? And he was, um, you know, and I think he's asking a lot of us: are we going to go away too when the pressure comes or the persecution comes? Because it's going to come. And so I just, I'm so grateful for the word of God.
My testimony has been he sent his word to heal them and to deliver them from their destructions. Psalms 107, verse 20 is a life verse for me because he sent me the law. And the law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul, making wise the simple. And I was so simple. I was so broken.
The law of God came in, convicted me of sin, and revealed to me the treasures of the fear of the Lord, having that and understanding that, and even praying for more of it that would keep me from evil and to destroy these demonic strongholds that I have. And every person I've ever ministered to that has dealt with sexual sin has dealt with demonic strongholds. As you mentioned, Ephesians 6, well, verse 12 tells us. That we have an adversary, our wrestle is not against flesh and blood, but against demons, all kinds of demons. And that's why, when I got set free, my pastor had given me 2 Corinthians 10, which says the weapons of our warfare are not.
Carnal, they're not of the flesh, they're mighty through God, to being able to pull down the strongholds, to being able to have a clear mind, clear thinking, especially in your identity and sexuality. It is, and I'm reminded of the power of God in 1 Corinthians chapter 2. And. As you pull that up, and you know, it starts in verse one, and it says, And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God, for I determined not to know anything among you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling.
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power. We've seen a lot of preachers who have fallen into sin over the past few years, and we've seen several preachers who have been in sin for a long time, but it's just come out. And the Bible says, You can be sure of this, that your sin will find you out. That's right. I'm not an advocate of having to rake someone through the coals if they have a moral failure or whatever, and they fall down, they get back up.
But anyone, which I think the Lord is really. Doing He loves every single person that is getting exposed, even Alan Chambers. And, you know, people have asked me: do I think Alan can be redeemed?
Well, Until we take our last breath, I I think a soul can be redeemed. But Unfortunately, yes, I do believe. That there are people that will get so jaden, so hardened, they won't ever come back. And that's a scary place when I look at Second Thessalonians 2, where people can literally be handed over to demonic spirits and be damned forever. And so, you know, I think it's really important to look at all these fallen ministers That God is doing something in Actually, cleaning house, but also Desiring to bring restoration to these people, to their families.
And that's what I've seen in ministry. I've seen many times when there was a failure that God wanted to bring healing. But even these people that had unrepentant behavior, the reason why they're getting exposed. at a national level Well, some of it's been also vindictive, you know, but I will say. The majority of these leaders, they were unrepentant.
They kept a secret for years. And kept on sinning.
Well, of course. I mean, I. Concerned about Ravi Zacharias, you know, he He died at the end of his life, and it doesn't appear that. You know, he was totally repentant.
So I, you know, God knows. And he knows the heart, but the fear of the Lord. Is the beginning of wisdom. And Mike, I say this all the time. If you don't have the beginning of wisdom, which is the fear of the Lord.
You don't have any wisdom. Yeah, and I think every, you know, everybody wants to be a preacher now, whether it's on the internet or social media or have a church or do this or that. You know, people, I think people want the authority and they want the power and they like people listening to them. But James chapter 3, verse 1 says this. It says that, my brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
And it says, for in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man and also able also to bridle the whole body. And so one of the things that I look at is this: that, you know, when I see that, it's like we've got to be careful if we say we want to be a teacher because it says right there in the book of James, it says that we're going to receive a harsher condom, a harsher judgment. And so we've really got to be working with the Lord. And especially, I see, Stephen, like you were talking about Alan Chambers, because from what I see, if you're the leader of that kind of ministry and then you go into rebellion, that means.
Means not only are you yourself falling away, but you're leading others away from the cross of Jesus Christ as well. And I did, and he did. And I've got a recording I've got on my website in Alan Chambers' own words. And in a video, he's literally speaking at a lesbian church in California, talking about his assistant, and literally told him to go and be gay. Mm.
And so, you know, God covers it all. It's a really perverse teaching. You know, he even quoted saying, well, you know, I'm a Southern Baptist, and once saved, always saved. And so, you know, taking the doctrine of eternal security in Christ and perverting it with the OSAS. You know, I just think it's really sad that people do that, you know, when the reality is that the scripture speaks to this very clearly in many places.
And um So, yeah, I mean, if you've got an unrepentant secret world of sin. Which here's the thing that people don't understand. It didn't happen in a vacuum. I mean, you know, even in their own confession, they had. Um, you know, continued to stumble in pornography.
and and and you know unrepentant sexual behavior And then, when you find out years later, okay, this was ongoing sin. And you mix that with really terrible teaching like Clark Witten's oversight of antinomianism, which I mean, it's like the teaching of the Nicolatians. I mean, it's Gnosticism. It's like it doesn't matter what you do in your body. You just go sin because, you know, it's not the body that matters, it's only your spirit.
And this was the teaching Jesus said, I hate this teaching. I hate it. Yeah, and there was a group of people around the time of the Reformation. They were called the Libertines. Have you heard of them?
Uh I have. Yeah, and they actually believe in antinomianism as well. And they said, because of our freedom in Christ, we can live however we want to live. And so I would say that most churches probably don't teach that today. But unfortunately, I've seen some pastors who preach, they say, and Charles Stanley was one of them.
He would say, well, if you're gay, he said, if you've been saved, then you're going to heaven. He's now. Go ahead. Yeah, no, that's right. I mean, Charles Stanley and now his son, where's Andy at now?
I mean, he's all the way completely, you know, gay Christian and practicing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's okay. It's heresy. It is, it is.
But I think some people say, well, you know, okay, you're saved. You said a prayer, you're making it to heaven, but you know, you're going to lose some rewards when you get to heaven, or you're not going to have this, you're not going to have that. But I don't read that in the Bible at all. And I feel like if you're teaching that, Then that's a slippery slope, and you're leading people astray, and God's going to hold you accountable for that. Absolutely.
And they get that, you know, the burning up of, you know, trying to present, many of them take 1 Corinthians 3 and present the idea of carnal Christianity. And one of my mentors in the Lord years ago, you can still find it out there, Bob Phillips, preached a, I think, a three-part series on carnal Christianity back in the 80s that was just a scorcher message and used the scripture so eloquently to show that that was not about an advocation for carnal Christianity. That's actually a person who is stumbling around in their gifting and not really just kind of like the servant that Jesus, you know, the parable. of the talents. And you know, they they some of them thought you know that Jesus was gonna be a hard taskmaster, or some people they don't they don't really do anything with their salvation.
That is not an advocation that you can live an idolatrous, sexually immoral life. Carnal and being a Christian when the Bible literally contradicts itself them by saying you will not go to heaven.
So, First Corinthians three cannot be promoting the idea of immoral. Carnal Christianity, which you're right, Michael, that's what some people are teaching out there. Yeah, and there's other pastors I know who may believe, hey, you should live a righteous and holy life. But A lot of them just don't talk about it. They want to talk about how God wants to bless you.
You know, they'll talk about death and life is in the power of the tongue, and those that love it will eat the fruit thereof. And I saw a clip the other day of Jesse Duplanis, and he was bragging about how he had a 40,000 square foot house and that everything that he touches turns into gold or whatever it is. And where is the talk of repentance? I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I um I certainly question some of that, and I fear for people.
Who won't live frugally and actually have more of a desire to, and I'm not opposed to nice houses and having things at all. I'm not, you know, taking the vow of poverty. We live in a very modest home. The Lord has always provided for us. And I think that we need to steward.
in such a way that Is going to bring glory and honor and the advancement of God's kingdom. And I really don't think that these mega-million-dollar pastors. Um Well, they'll probably be the ones in 1 Corinthians 3, or not even in heaven. And that's that's kind of scary to say. I mean that people can get all the way in In their mind and souls to become reprobate.
But one of the most alarming passages is Second Thessalonians chapter 2, in context of the last days in which we are in, that it literally says, because they did not believe the truth.
So as to be saved, God will send a deluding influence over them, and that they will be damned forever. And I can't see the um Um the fruitfulness in living in such opulence. That That when you have, you know, I'm something special when you have people right just down the road that don't even have food or clothing.
So, anyhow, I, you know, there's always going to be the poor around us. But to live meagerly, I'm not advocating poverty. I'm certainly advocating the idea of being responsible. And maybe God does use and certainly has. I mean, we know that Solomon, even in his reigning days, Blue gold dust in his hair.
Did I think that pleased the Lord? I don't. God does allow some of his men to have some wealth, but they will be held accountable with how we did and didn't do, what we did and did not do in the body. All of us. And so That's where the fear of the Lord.
That's you know, the other verse, you know, in 2 Corinthians chapter 5, as well. We've been quoting the whole passage. In verse 9 through 11. And Paul literally is telling, warning them, you know. I know what it's going to be like.
We're all going before the judgment seat of the Lord. And he says: therefore, knowing the terror of the Lord. And it is a terror. Like John. In the revelation, when he fell down as a dead man.
Some people think waltzing in front of the presence of God, you're going to not have that effect.
Well, I had a near-death experience, and it was terrifying. Especially when I saw the fire of God. Absolutely terrifying. And if you don't have a soul that's living in Corum Deo, And in other words, centeredness with repentant in your thoughts and feelings and desires, you probably don't have a relationship with Jesus. And if your eye is more on money, which we know that the cares and the worries and the pleasures and the entertainments of this world.
According to the parable of the sower of the seed, choke out the fruitfulness. And I think it's only that 25% that produce some 30, 40, 60 fold, 100 fold that are going to be in heaven. Not the ones who fall away, not the ones where Satan ate the seed out of their heart.
So, you know, it's a narrow way. Jesus warned us, even in that, in the Sermon on the Mount, it's a narrow way that leads to life. Yeah, you can tell I like preaching them on these things. Yeah, and we're running out of time, but if people want to check you out, it's stephenblack.org. Is that right?
That's correct. And Stephen is spelled S-T-E-P-H-E-N.
So I want to thank you for coming on again today, Stephen. Yeah, thank you. God bless you. If not for God. All right, for my YouTube channel.
If not for God with mighty's wick Just like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell. Oh.
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