This is the Truth Network. Welcome to If Not Forgot. Stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. All right, this is Mike Zwick with If Not For God with Mike Zwick, I've got Pastor Dean Odell.
Pastor Dean, are you there? Yes, thank you for having me, brother. All right, man.
Well, we're going to get right into this because After, was it Artemis? Yes, Artemis 2 mission. People have been going back and forth on this flat earth thing and.
Some people say it's true, some people say it's absolutely nuts. And some people might even tell you to get your tinfoil hat off, is that right? Of course, the world thinks that anything that might be a little controversial or different from the narrative put out by the media and by government agencies, they think all of a sudden you're a conspiracy theorist. But not all conspiracies are just theories.
Some of the conspiracies are facts. There are real conspiracies in this world, and this is one of the biggest ones that Satan has ever put together, is to deceive the world about the nature of creation. Absolutely. And so, you know, one of the things that I look at when I look at all the videos and the pictures. that NASA had put out there.
My question is this, what about space travel?
Well, you know, first let's define biblical cosmology because a lot of people don't understand what you're talking about when you even say the word biblical cosmology. Um what that means is cosmology is simply the study of the nature of the universe, of the sun, moon, stars. What is space? What is above us? What is below us?
Is trying to understand the world. Biblical cosmology means that we have a world view. Of these things from the Bible. For instance, one of these things would be: you know, the scientific world says that. Uh evolution is how man came to be, that we Came out of the primordial goo and then evolved into fish, and therefore then to primates, monkeys, and then finally human beings.
But of course, even though science, the science world calls that the fact of the way it is, we've seen many holes punched into that theory. And Christians do not believe that origin story of man. We believe we were created by God in His image. Adam and Eve, and that's where mankind came from by God Almighty. And of course, that makes far more sense.
So, as you get into this, you know, we Christians either choose to believe the Bible as the inspired and fallible word of God, that every word is important, that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and it's profitable for doctrine, or we believe that a lot of it's just the words of men and they wrote down things that they didn't know what they were talking about. And so, biblical cosmology says we believe what the Bible says. not what the world system has to say about it.
Well, let me ask you this. What are some Bible verses that may point to the flat earth?
Well, okay. I mean, first of all, we have to look at what we're told. You know, the heliocentric view of the universe didn't come in until, you know, some say a priest by the name of Nicholas in the 1400s put it forth, and then Copernicus. Put it forth that instead of the sun, moon, and stars moving in a circular path over a flat stationary earth. Copernicus came up with the idea that, no, we are on a spinning ball and the planets are these balls and we're flying around in these orbits around the sun.
So the sun became the center. Of course, like Martin Luther and others did not agree with him. Martin Luther was a contemporary of Copernicus and he said he was crazy and had crazy theories. Um but the bottom line is that you know It comes down to this. You know, God talked about how he made the heavens and the earth.
In the Bible, and through people like Moses, and Joshua, and Ezekiel, and so on. And none of it is what we're told from the Big Bang heliocentric version. You know, they say nothing exploded about 14 billion years ago and somehow Created everything that we can see in the universe. But the Bible is very clear that God created everything, and Genesis 1 is an order of how he created those things. And what's very interesting is that they tell us that we're orbiting around The sun, you know, 66,000 miles an hour, we're orbiting around the sun, and yet.
The Bible says that he formed the heavens and the earth. On day one, he said, let there be light. And then on day two, the firmament. We'll get into that in a second. But he did not form the sun, moon and stars until day four.
So, you know, again, just that in itself is contradictory to the. mainline narrative of the science community. And then also the Bible tells us very clearly, God says in Job thirty eight, when he appeared and said, Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? And then he goes into explaining that the earth in verse 14, Job 38:14, that the earth takes shape. or took shape like clay pressed under a seal.
And if you look up all those words, you know, it's clear that he's talking about a signet ring or a seal of a king. Where they would take like a ball of wax or a ball of clay and they would mash it down flat with the imprints of the king's. signature or signet. And God says that's how he formed the earth. And then when you get into like Isaiah 42, 5, Isaiah 44, 24, Psalm 136, 6.
Well, God starts talking about how He formed the earth, how He spread it out, how He stretched out the earth. The word raka there means to stamp out flat. If you look it up, it's exactly the definition to be beaten out, to be stamped, to be pressed.
So the Lord gives us a picture of how he formed The errors And then, of course, Ian Uh what is it? Uh in Isaiah forty 22, where it says he sitteth upon the circle of the earth. A lot of people try to say that that means a sphere. But that's not what that word means at all. In fact, in the original Hebrew, We have in Isaiah 40, 22, it says he sits on the circle of the earth.
The Hebrew word is coog. And then in Isaiah 22, 18, he talks about a ball there. And the King James translates a word called a word, a Hebrew word dur, as ball.
So the Lord says he engraved a circle, Proverbs 8, upon the face of the deep, not that he created a ball, and never once in Scripture, not from Genesis to Revelation. Particularly in the Old Testament, does God ever use too the word dir or baal to describe the earth? It's just not the way he formed it. He says he formed it like clay pressed down flat under a seal. And that's if we're going to talk about the shape of the earth, that's exactly what the Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches Zechariah 1.11 and other scriptures that the earth is Still and at rest. That it's fixed. and immovable. That's what the Bible says about the motion of the earth, that it's not moving, it's not spinning, it's not flying. through this endless vacuum of space.
So the Bible has a very different view. Psalm 19 tells us that the sun moves in a circuit over the earth and returns every day to the place where it started.
Well, that would be impossible. in a heliocentric universe. And so people Christians are having to deal with that are we going to believe the Bible? Are we going to believe a government agencies like NASA or the European Space Administration or the Russian Uh The Russian Federation, formerly Soviet Union cosmonaut, are we going to believe all that? Are we going to believe the Word of God?
And so biblical cosmology says we believe that the Bible teaches a flat stationary earth That the sun, moon, stars are much smaller and move in a circular path over that, that the earth is covered by a molten glass. Firmament dome arch thing that comes down at the ends of the earth. And meets the earth, and that heaven is above that. God's throne sits upon the crystalline glass firmament, as Ezekiel 1 says. and that that's where the third heaven is.
And that Earth is You know, our atmosphere is created by that firmament like a terrarium. And then under the earth. Uh is Hell and paradise, she o And that is the three-tiered system taught by Moses and Joshua and Ezekiel and so on and on by the prophets. And of course, one of the great theologians of our day was Dr. Michael Heiser.
He was one of the theologians behind Logo Software in his seminary classes. He plainly and clearly and accurately taught that the Bible teaches a flat. non-moving, non-rotating, non-flying. Stationary, a flat stationary earth covered by a firmament dome. And he went through the scriptures, it's called Hebrew cosmology in his class.
Unfortunately, Dr. Heiser, like many Christians who choose to not believe the Bible, instead believe government agencies like NASA, he said, well, you know, they just didn't understand and know what we know today, and they just wrote what they knew.
Now that's a serious conflict because We believe, true Christians believe, that the Bible is the inspired, infallible Word of God, that we must not live by bread alone, but by every word of God, is what Jesus said. and that all scripture is given by inspiration of God. We either believe that God had men put exactly down what he wanted, every word of Scripture. Or that men wrote the Bible by their own intellect. And if we do that, then we really destroy this one of the foundational truths of Christianity because you know the The prophecies of the Old Testament are the ones that, you know, the 300 prophecies plus in the Old Testament point to Jesus being the Messiah, his death.
atoning death on the cross, his resurrection. I mean, we know who Jesus is and what he did for us by the scriptures. The gospel is preached by the scriptures. And believing that they are not just the words of men, but the inspired words of God. That's what's important here.
Yeah, and so one of the things that I was wondering about, I mean, is it You've got gravity, right? I mean. Yes, well, here's the thing about that, okay, we can get into all this stuff, but like for instance, the theory and just remember, it's the theory of gravity. Um the theory of gravity um that put out there are we could call Newton's law and the equation of universal gravitation, right? Even some of our top physicists, scientists, astronomers.
Like Neil deGrasse Tyson, Michio Kaku, and others admit and say that they don't know what it is, what gravity is. What's interesting is that I had an engineer friend of mine out of Sweden, a brilliant man. Pointed out to me one day that if you look at the equation for Newton's universal law of gravitation. And you compare it to the Cologne's equation, Cologne's law of electromagnetism. They're the exact same equations, except that cologne can, in experiments and in the laboratory, cologne's law and experiments can be duplicated.
So I think gravity is better explained by electromagnetic charges, electrical charges and magnetism. And buoyancy and density versus some mystical force that somehow. Uh can hold the ocean to the earth, but but not a butterfly. You know, so you know, but that right there, you know, we've discovered too, as you move up in altitude, you get different electrical charges that start pushing back down on you.
So again, I would go to the buoyancy density issue of electromagnetic charges in our atmosphere pushing down upon us. And of course, each different, like a butterfly versus a human being, having different electromagnetic. charges, we react different to this. To this force of electromagnetism. And what's interesting is here in Alabama, where I live, we have the Huntsville Space Center and Redstone Arsenal, where a lot of stuff for the space program is done and and was done you know in the Saturn V and going back There is actually a lab at Redstone Arsenal, a NASA lab, and it's called the Buoyancy and Density Lab.
And it's got very intricate and very sensitive scales, and they weigh everything. Because it's very important about their weight ratios and density ratios when they put a capsule. Up above 73 miles in what I call the ether realm. Not space, but they put those up there and they have to know because the ether. Is a superfluid.
It's a gas superfluid. Interesting, it gets very dense at 73 miles. And they've learned how to insert capsules out of rockets into that area there. And that's why they really focus on buoyancy and density. Uh versus um Versus the theory of gravity.
You know, Neil deGrasse Tyson with that. He was asked, what is gravity? He said, we don't know. I mean, so that Tis tells you right there, like, we don't know what it is. Yeah, let me ask you this.
Why would they go through all of this trouble to lie to us about this?
Well, listen, the book of the. We have to believe, number one, as Christians, if we believe. The Bible, number one, is the inspired, infallible word of God. And we believe that there is. that old dragon, the serpent, the devil, Satan, the adversary, and he has fallen angels that work with him and demon spirits that work with him and people that worship him and work with him.
The Bible tells us very plainly in Revelation 12. Verse 9, it says that Satan deceiveth the whole world. And that verb there, that Greek verb tense, this present tense, Greek verb, where it says deceiveth means he's doing it on an ongoing continual basis right now in the present. And That it's ongoing.
So the Bible talks about Satan deceiving the whole world. And one of the number one issues that has created the most atheists and agnostics and so on. Is that once NASA started their alleged space travel and, you know, Yeah. stuff back in the in the 50s, late 50s and early 60s. Um They began to create this whole idea that the Bible's account of creation.
is not correct. And what the Bible says about the sun, moon, and stars, about the shape of the earth, about the universe, is not true. And because we have you know, pictures from space, or we have traveled up there.
Some, you know, very few, mind you, have done that. Um and so I just tell you people all the time Satan has used this to discredit the Bible. And that has led many people away from Jesus and walking in true faith. And that's what Satan's about. And he's invested a lot in this deception.
That's come through NASA, and a lot of people don't understand that NASA was formed. By Former milit Nazi officers, SS officers. Operation Paperclip is very well known now that over one thousand six hundred Nazi scientists were brought over here. Many of them were put into the system that formed NASA because they were building the V two rockets for Hitler. And a lot of those SS officers were high level Vrill society Satanist.
And we just turned the keys of the kingdom over to them because we wanted them to build rockets and weapons for us. And that's how the space program was founded, and also by a high-level Satanist in the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. And that's where our space program came from. And all our first astronauts were high-level Freemasons, which Once you reach a high level of Freemasonry, like the 32nd, 33rd degree Freemasons, Are revealed to them that all their oaths and rituals lead up to one thing, and that is understanding that they worship and follow Lucifer, Satan, the devil. And that's where their loyalties lie.
and Buzz Aldrin and all of them were clear Freemasons. But here's what people need to understand. NASA was part of the. CIA The purpose of NASA, the real purpose was not alleged space exploration. If I've looked through.
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of declassified documents via FOIA request. And what you discover is that the purpose of NASA was to build. High altitude. reconnaissance vehicles For the military, so that we could fly over very high as possible, fly over the Soviet Union at the time, China at the time, Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And they went through a series of developing planes that could fly higher and higher, like the U-2 spy plane.
And then we needed the SR-71, and then we went to the Space Shuttle, which really was about, again, it was a reconnaissance vehicle that only reached about 200,000 feet. And all this is in the declassified documents.
So, you know, I present all this. I presented all this over the last 11 years in.
So many two-hour sermons, I can't even, I've lost count of how many hours. But I even remember the code name. I found the official top secret code name of the space shuttle was Isenglass. And it's all described what it was for, and so on. I'm not knocking what NASA does for the military and for high altitude reconnaissance.
Satellites are deployed above 73 miles in the ether. Via rockets and open nose cones. All of this is this information in the National Reconnaissance Office. Documents, and even NASA admits that the first satellites that they put up were connected to Mylar balloons. And we know balloons don't work in a vacuum chamber.
So again, what they've told us space is and what it really is are two different things. and what satellites are and how they operate. Those things are real, but they're not like what they tell us.
So I've done my research, and what I'm saying is, I've documented all this. I wrote a book in 2019 called Like Clay Under the Seal. where I give all the documents. I show the URLs. I give screenshots from the CIA reading room and the Freedom of Information Act from the National Reconnaissance Office from the United States Army, Navy.
And here is something that will blow your mind. I have a whole two-hour program on declassified. NASA, manuals, documents, Army, Navy, on down the line. But I'll give you one for instance. There's a .NASA manual from 1987.
NASA document 1207. Anybody can look this up. It's called the derivation and definition of a linear aircraft model. And what they're talking about is how mock aircraft fly over the earth. In the summary?
In the middle of the manual. And at the conclusion of the manual, it says these words. These are NASA's words, not mine. that these rigid aircraft fly over A non-rotating flat earth. That's their words.
And these are documents that Mm-hmm. for years were not public. But now through the Freedom of Information Act, we have You know, millions and millions now of documents. And it takes time. You have to dig and find them and all, but.
I found dozens of documents that admit that the earth is stationary, flat, and not, you know. Yeah. Not like they tell us. Please show.
Well, you know, and what was interesting to me is when I tried to Google Flat Earth. I did not see both sides. I only saw one side. Yeah. Well, that happened.
Let me tell you what happened. In when this really exploded on the scene, this is not really new. There was a movement in the early 1900s. Um And there were a lot of books written at the time about the biblical cosmology, flat earth, back then. And then of course things kind of died out, but it never really went away.
But what happened was when this exploded on the scene in 2014, 2015, and really took off in twenty sixteen, seventeen, was huge. In fact, a friend of mine that worked for the European Union uh to he was a computer geek uh that uh was hired by the European Union to to uh discover how much control Google had over their uh internet systems there. But he said, and he showed me way back then how Flat Earth in those years was the most searched thing on Google, and they tried to bury that. It was exploding, so because of the Nikon P900 and P1000. High-zoom cameras that were allowing people to find out that they could see too far for the alleged curve.
And so that caused an explosion of this. And so what happened in 2018 Um Congress, they had a meeting with Google and on, and this is all documented. And basically, Congress ordered Google to start censoring the flat earth. uh videos and uh articles and things of that nature.
So 2018 the censorship began and just to give you an example of the censorship. My video, The Bible Does Say Flat Earth, had over a million views. It had been shared. It had been mirrored in different accounts, had hundreds of thousands of views. I mean, there's no telling how many.
Views that video had. And when you typed in, Google, when you typed in Bible and Flat Earth. My video would be the first thing to pop up in Google. This is twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. But when the censorship hit, you could type in the exact title of my video and it would not bring it up.
And they begin major censorship at that time. I had a YouTube channel of 24,000 subscribers. And because of these things, and plus, you know, I ran for governor of Alabama, and they immediately terminated my channel. I've been extremely censored. by the media just simply because of this.
It's something else. While we're on that note, we have run out of time. But we're going to do one more.
So make sure to listen next week. All right, for my YouTube channel. If not for God with might Zwick Just like subscribe and hit that notification bell.
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