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Welcome to If Not Forgot. Stories of hopelessness that turn to hope. Here is your host, Mike Zwick. If heaven ain't a lot like Dixie, I don't wanna go. If heaven ain't a lot like Dixie, I just assume stay home.
If they ain't got a grand old apri, Like they do in Tennessee. Send me to hell or New York City, it would be about the same for me.
Well, guys, welcome to the show, If Not For God, with Mike Zwick. And the reason I sang that song. Is because a lot of times when people talk about heaven or when they think about heaven, Well They don't really think about it that much. They don't really talk about it that much. And I started to think about this.
And in my whole life, going to church my whole life, I don't know how many times I actually heard a sermon on heaven.
Now, I know I've heard it before, but I could probably count it on one hand how many times I've actually heard a sermon on heaven. And when I started to talk to people about what heaven will be like, You know, a lot of people, they think like Hank Williams Jr. Man, I don't know about that. You know, we sit on a cloud just kind of hanging out. And I remember a long time ago, I saw.
There was a cartoon, and it was the guy who was the guy's name he used to run around and try to catch that rabbit with Yosemite Sam. He was around trying to say your prayers, partner. Say your prayers, partner. Trying to catch the rabbit or whatever it was. And then one time they both died.
And they both went up to heaven, and they looked like they were bored out of their minds, and they looked like they didn't want to be there. And, you know, it's funny, I was preparing for this show, and one of the things that I saw is I was watching a series by Chip Ingram. Are you familiar with him? Yes. I'm not familiar with his teaching on eschatology, but I'm familiar with his narrative.
Right.
So, one of the things that he's talking about. Is he said, you know, my dad, his dad had gotten saved. And he said, son, he said, I really, he said, I'm really not looking forward to dying. He says, I'm kind of afraid of dying. And so what Chip Ingram did was he ended up.
Taking him. Uh, taking his dad, he brought him a book and it was called Heaven by Randy Alcorn. And he said, His dad slowly started to study heaven. And he said, After several months, because his dad was dealing with something like ALS, his dad actually told his mom, and he told him. He said, whatever you do, I don't want you guys to resuscitate me.
If you see that I'm going out, if you see that I'm not going to make it, he said, I'm ready to go because I'm ready to be with Jesus and I'm ready to go with heaven and I'm ready to go to heaven. Praise God. That's wonderful. And I've got Dr. Greg Hennett.
And Greg, you've got your book here, and it's called Revelation Notes, an inspirational commentary on the book of Revelation by Greg Hennett. And Dr. Greg, I think when people talk about heaven or when Christians, those who know Jesus, think about heaven, it should really be something that's pretty exciting. Oh, it should be the most exciting thing in our life. And really, you know, Mike, after we are born again and filled with the Spirit, the Holy Spirit's on a mission to prepare us for eternal life.
So we're really learning eternal life in space and time. And then, either at our passing or the rapture, we immediately step over into that realm. And we should not only be natural, but it will be our bliss. You know, David said, In thy presence is the fullness of joy. And the presence of the Father and the Son at the center of New Jerusalem, that is the core attraction, if you will, to heaven.
Well, and I think there's a Bible verse, Greg, and the Bible verse goes something like this. It says, I hath not seen nor ear heard. And it's basically people use that verse to say, well, there's just really nothing we can know about heaven. We know that it's good. We know that if we trust in Christ, we'll be there someday.
But I think they like to think, well, there's just nothing we can know about it, so we're not going to talk about it a whole lot. Does the Bible talk about heaven? Yes, absolutely. And just to pick up on what you just said there, Paul quoted that scripture, and then he said, but the Spirit has revealed to us. The things of God.
So he's saying that the natural man can't conceive of these things, but one of the missions of the Holy Spirit, one of the parts of the Holy Spirit's mission is to show us, in Jesus' words, things to come. And so he's been selective. He hasn't told us everything about heaven, but he's told us all the necessary information. And what's in there is beyond astounding.
Well, and Revelation chapter 21 really kind of gives us a glimpse as well, doesn't it? Oh, absolutely. 21 and 22 are all about heaven and gives us all just tremendous information about what that's going to be like. Yeah. What do you see?
Well, I just see when I'm reading this, and it really caps the entire biblical story. What we have in Revelation 21, 1 through 22, 5, this is the information on heaven, is if you want to boil it down, it's Eden restored plus. Eden is restored. And it adds many things, so many things that were not present in Eden.
So it's just awesome. And so, you know, God is preparing us for that time. The millennial reign of Christ, the thousand years on this present earth. There's tremendous parallels between the millennium And the eternal state. And so you have in the millennium the day of the Lord, the day when Christ reigns, and then in the eternal state it's the day of God, the day of the Father's reign.
And so it's an amazing story. We're being prepared for it. But just to add to what I just said, then it is capping the biblical story of redemption. And so here it's fitting, Mike, that after he has redeemed. Mankind thoroughly.
And of course, we see that finished at the end of Revelation 20 because all the redeemed are with Christ, and all the unredeemed are called before that great white throne to be judged for their works, and they're sent to hell, and they are punished with different degrees of torment for the different degrees of their wickedness in this world.
So there's no sinners left. Satan has been put into the lake of fire along with the beast and the false prophet. Only the redeemed are alive, and he's prepared this glorious, pristine environment for you and I, and our children, and our friends, and all God's people. to live in forever and ever.
So we see that redemption is complete. The creature has been redeemed. And now the creation. has been redeemed. And the Lord says, you know, Behold, I make all things new.
And he is rejoicing when he makes that statement in Revelation twenty one. I make all things new, twenty one five. It's just the great climax of the long saga of redemption. Yeah, and and I think You know, it is important. As Christians, for us to work on our lives here on earth.
Oh, yes. We want to have a good marriage. Yes. You know, we want to be able to have good fellowship with other Christians. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
We want to, you know, we want to be able to enjoy our lives. We want to try to eat healthy so we can live a long life and live a healthy life. Right.
This is our temple, this is our body. Yes. But I also think kind of on the other hand We've made those things the primary source of things that we talk about. A lot of the churches that we go to today, it's all about living our best lives now. Right.
But see, Greg, when I look in the Old Testament, when I look in the New Testament especially. I see that the Christians are not talking about the here and now as much. They're talking about where they're going to be and so Need of Hebrews chapter 11. It says, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report.
And it goes on to talking about faith and how all of these good things happen when we have faith. But see, What a lot of people don't Talk about as much as in the second part of the chapter.
Okay. And then in verse 23, it says, By faith, Moses, when he was born, was hid for three months of his parents because they saw that he was a proper child and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. By faith, Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter. And so in other words, Moses had it going pretty well. Moses knew Hey, I can have an easy life.
I can live my best life now, but Moses was looking in the long term. Yes, he was. Choosing rather to suffer affliction. We don't like to talk about that. choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season.
And it goes on to say, it says, They kept the Passover. Here it is. In verse 29, it says, By faith they passed through the Red Sea. as through the dry land as the Egyptians Uh and we're safe, we're drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down.
We love that. I'm going to keep going. Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness. We love that. But here it is.
In verse 35, it says, Women received their dead raised to life again, and others were tortured.
Okay, so Tortured. not accepting deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection. and others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, they were tempted, they were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, not having any money at all.
afflicted and tormented, of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and in mountains. and in dens and caves of the earth And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, receive not the promise God having provided some better thing for us. That they without us should not be made perfect. People love the first half of the chapter.
Things are happening, things are going really well through faith. Hey, we love to pray for that person and see him healed. Yeah. But see a lot of times as Christians We may have to go through some stuff. In this world, but if we don't Realize what heaven's going to be like, or if we, if our mind and our hearts are not focused on heaven or eternity.
It may be kind of tough to get through some of that stuff. Absolutely, because you know, this hope of heaven, this sure hope of heaven, is supposed to be a steady driving motivator, which not only fits us to see the eternal values while we're in this temporal world and go only for eternal truth and eternal values, but also, Mike, it gives us that power to go through adversity. It gives us that power to go through these sufferings that you just named.
Now, I would just add to what you just said: that was wonderful, what you just pointed out there: that these people, this world was not worthy of them. This world was not worthy of them. It was not worthy of them, yeah. And that's the way it should be. We should be living on another plane in the spirit while we walk in this life.
But here, early in this chapter, it talks about Abraham, and it said that truly, let's see, verse 14: For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they have been minded, mindful of that country from which they came out. they might have had opportunity to return, but now they desire a better country that is an heavenly. Wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared for them A city. And so this is talking about the eternal city, the city that we were talking about here in Revelation 21 and 22, new Jerusalem.
And it says here that they were looking for this better country, this heavenly country.
So this is a corrective, and in some cases, a rebuke. To our intense nationalism today. Look, I love America. I mean, would you guys want to go anywhere else? I love apple pie.
I love apple pie. We love our country. We think, even with all the sin in this country, it's still the best country in this world and in history.
However, We have a better country, and we have to think about it. And so we don't want to be intensely focused on nationalism. You know, we want to vote for the best candidate and the cause that is supported by Christian values. Amen, amen, amen. But this is not our home.
This is not the end. We're passing through. this land, just like Abraham was a sojourner in Mesopotamia. We are sojourners in America. You know, Greg, somebody ought to write a song.
This world is not my home. I'm just a passing through. Go ahead, Greg. I think you missed your calling. I think Nashville is calling for you, Michael.
Right now, I just, don't you hear it, Jeff? I hear Nashville calling. Where is Michael Zwick? Calling Michael Zwick. But you know, this again, we need to preach on heaven, we need to teach on heaven.
And what it ha what that means is that when people come out of those meetings, And then they hit their next problem.
Okay, it's about the car, it's about the home, it's about the how much money they're making. Mm-hmm. You know, all those things are put in proper perspective. Yes, as you said. We need to apply our faith to meet those needs and come boldly to the throne of grace, as Hebrews exhorts us, but never with a sense of terror or panic.
Mm-hmm. Because, as you just told us before this program, who was that that you were speaking of? The man who said he was ready to go on? That was Chip Ingram, his dad. Oh, his dad?
Chip Ingram's dad. His dad, yeah. I mean, and so what ended up happening, did I tell him on the program or was that cut off? I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I can do it.
Chip Ingram, his dad. Was actually dying. And Chip Ingram said, Hey, you know, you're my son, you're a preacher. Right.
You should be able to tell me all these things about heaven. And Chip said, Up until that time, he really hadn't spent a lot of time thinking about it, talking about it, or whatever. And Chip ended up reading this book called Heaven by Randy Alcorn. And when he talked about it and he read about it, his dad ended up saying. I don't resuscitate.
I'm ready to go to heaven. And I really feel DNR is what they put on. DNR is what they put on the tag. I'm really ready to go because this world is not my home. And you know what?
The truth is, Greg, I don't care how good we have it here. You know how much money we have, how many friends we have. I mean, this world has so many problems. Yes, absolutely. I was listening to Sean Hannity several years ago.
I don't know if you ever listened to him, but one of the things that he said, he said, people think because I'm successful or I have a lot of money. He said, I don't have problems. He said, I got more problems now than I did before. Biggie Smalls one time said, he said, Mo money, mo problems, right? And I don't have that problem.
But, you know, anyways, so the thing is, is that, you know. I don't care how good we have it. This world has nothing to offer. No, it does not. It has nothing to offer.
And I think the only reason that we're really here in this world is to do the will of God. And it was in Acts 1:21. The Apostle Paul said, for me to live as Christ and to die as gain. And he actually, when he's in there, he's talking about it. He said, there's a part of me that I just want to go be with Jesus.
He said, but the only reason I'm still here. It is to help other people to come and know Jesus themselves. Absolutely, absolutely.
So he made a selfless decision, and that is a rebuke to us because in our day, again, perhaps it's because we have such a high material standard of living and America has such freedom. You know, we often, Christians, make selfish decisions instead of selfless decisions.
So your point is spot on. We are here for, I think, two purposes. One, to know God, to be redeemed and to know God. And the second purpose is to do the will of God. Do whatever he has called us to do.
Be what he's called us to be, a transformed life, and do what he has called us to do. To do. And every Christian has their own individual calling. We have one, Mike, we have one general calling, a universal calling, Romans 8:29, that we should be conformed to the image. Of his son.
Yes. Every Christian. Then, beside that, we all have a calling that Ephesians 2 talks about, those works which we were predestined to do before the world was, which we are doing today on your podcast. This is one of those works. When we're speaking about heaven, the Bible says that the works that we do, we're going to be rewarded for them in heaven.
Is that right? Oh, absolutely. This is an important fact. In fact, one of the last statements that Jesus makes in the Bible is Revelation 22, verses 12 and 13. And this is going to be very important for your listeners.
And now listen to this text. Behold, I come quickly. These are red-letter words. Jesus is interacting with John as John is receiving and inscribing the awesome revelation. And Jesus says to him in a parenthetic exhortation.
The book of Revelation has certain parenthetic exhortations.
Now, for your viewers, if they're not familiar with that term, it just means something which is as if it is in.
Okay, it's not adding to the ongoing story. It's something that the writer wants the reader to stop and listen, stop and consider as he's reading the story.
So here he's got something from Jesus who says, Behold, I come quickly. And my reward is with me.
Now, what does that tell us? That at his coming, And he does mean the rapture here because he's alluding to it in several places. He also alludes to it in Revelation 16. He said, Behold, I come quickly as a thief in the night.
So that's the rapture. And here he's alluding to it again: I come quickly.
So he says, I come quickly and Okay, that conjunction is adding the thought before to the thought that follows. I come quickly and my reward is with me. He's got something else to say. To give every man according as his work shall be.
So this is so important that we as Christians understand that every work that we do in Christ, we will be rewarded for it.
So we're talking about rewards that are merit based. Our salvation, it is grace-based.
Sola gracia By grace alone are we saved. Faith alone, but the rewards are for our works. And I want to say right now on this point: the biggest reward we're going to have. Is described in Revelation 22, and it's right here. It's verse.
Uh verse 4. and five. And they shall see his face. No one has looked upon the face of God in this life. They shall see his face, and his name shall be in their foreheads.
That means the character of God has been integrated into the believer's thinking. They're fully spiritually minded now, Mike. This is an awesome thing. And it says, And there shall be no night there, and they shall need no lamp there, neither light of the sun. For the Lord God gives them light, and they shall reign forever and ever.
So we will see his face, and the verse before it says that we will serve him, and his name will be written in our foreheads.
So that's the biggest reward you and I are going to get is to be in the presence of Jesus Christ, specifically access to the presence.
Well, and and one of the greatest things that I see in my life Greg, and I'm sure you've seen it, I'm sure that Jeff Hoover has seen it as well. Whenever I get depressed, whenever I get down, When I start to praise God, When I start to worship God. It changes the atmosphere. Oh, absolutely. And I've heard it said: I was in Asheville, North Carolina, one time talking to a lady about her insurance and.
And she said, Mike, she said, when praises go up. She said that blessings come down. Absolutely. And one of the things that I'm looking forward to when I get to heaven is doesn't it say that we'll be able to worship the Lord forever? Oh, yes, absolutely, because uh heaven is an eternal state.
An eternal state. And, you know, what you were just saying is Psalm 22: the Lord inhabits the praises of his people. And that Hebrew means is enthroned upon.
So that doesn't have to be corporate worship, Jeff. It can be, and I would say it should be. I would say the first application should be the believer's individual worship or in twos or threes in a prayer meeting. I want to encourage your listeners: when you have a prayer meeting, you have two or three people there, start it by worshiping God and praising Him. If you've got a board meeting, worship and praise Him.
I remember hearing A.W. Toser say, He said, on the boardroom of every church in America, these words should be placed in large letters on the wall. In everything. In everything by prayer and supplication, let your request be made known to God. In other words, board members, you're not in control.
Pray and seek the mind of God for your church or ministry. And again, open that time with prayer and worship. You see Paul doing that with the elders of the Antioch church in Acts 13. worshiping God there. They were seeking uh the Spirit's direction, and He gave it, you know, separate me, Saul and Barnabas, for the work unto which I've called him.
And then, Mike, you see him doing that in his lowest moment in the Philippi jail. And it for your listeners, I would I would just remind you, want to want to share with you that if we're not worshiping him on a daily basis, then will we get in some kind of a quote unquote Philippi jail? We might just do what Job said, what Satan said of Job, curse God and die. And what his wife repeated, curse God and die, you know, was give up, give up your faith. And many people do that.
And their faith is broken because, Mike, they've never formed this habit. This is very important what you brought up. They've never formed this habit. Of praise and worship. It should be a Habit, not a duty, not a task, a joyous habit in our life.
It's a privilege that we can do this. And as David said, in your presence, Is the fullness of joy. can experience more bliss and ecstasy. Than in the presence of God. And David said that in the Psalms, so we know that's an earthly possibility.
That's right, that's right. That's right. We all have our go-to chapters or two verses. One of my go-to verses in the Bible, and really in the last couple of years, has been Psalm 150, and this is what it says. Praise ye the Lord.
Praise God in his sanctuary. Praise Him in the firmament of His power. Praise Him for His mighty acts. Praise him according to his excellent greatness. Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet.
Praise Him with the psaltery and heart. Praise Him with the timbre and the dance. And praise Him with string instruments and organs. Praise Him upon the loud cymbals. Praise Him upon the high-sounding cymbals.
Let everything that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise you the Lord. And I heard. It was C.S. Lewis one time who said this.
He said, The truth is, he said, it's not really that God is sending us to hell or whatever. He said, We're really sending ourselves to hell. Right.
He said, Because at the end of the day, what we're going to do, we have one of two choices. Lord, it's either thy will be done or it's my will be done. Correct, Mike. That's right, and that's why when Antichrist comes along, the beast, as Revelation calls him, in Revelation 13, he will simply be the embodiment. of all that the fallen, rebellious human race longs for and desires, the ultimate self man.
He embodies what they are living for. The spirit of sin. is fully manifested in this man who is uh who is of the spirit of antichrist. Yeah, and so there was a uh there used to be a yogurt place, and it was called Frog Yogurt. I don't know if it was.
Oh, yeah, I've been to one of those shows. It was fully rely on God, fully rely on God. I didn't know that. I'm capitalist, I'm conservative, I'm an American. Yeah, I do.
To the full extent, I really am. But at the end of the day, I realize that the difference between me and some of the secular conservatives, and there are some. Is that I fully rely on God and I realize that this world is not my home. I'm just a passing-through. You know, what I'm looking forward to is someplace beyond the blue.
And it even goes on to say in that song. I can't feel at home in this world anymore. You know, maybe the problem that you're dealing with right now. It may not be that you don't believe in Jesus or you say you don't love Jesus, whatever, but. It's that maybe you're becoming a little too comfortable with this world.
Maybe you love this world a little bit too much, and maybe you don't love Jesus quite enough. The Bible actually says, it says, love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. It says, if any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Right.
It's pretty serious, man. Yeah, and James says that to be a friend of this world. is to be an enemy of God. And what we have here is whose approval Are you seeking? Who who is it that you want to pat you on the back, Jeff, and say Wow, great, great job, or well done, good and faithful servant.
Is it men who have no relationship to God, who do not know God, men of the world? Yeah. Or is it Christ. Christ. And when it's Christ, then everything we do, Mike, will be motivated, as Paul says, as an act unto Him.
We will do it heartily from our whole being, as unto the Lord. That is as if Jesus said, Mike, would you do this for me? Jeff, would you do that for me? And so that's the way we should live our life. Everything we do, whether it's to people or in our ministry or in our secular vocation or profession, should be done as unto him.
Absolutely. And your book? Oh, yes. Yeah, Revelation Notes is a very, very thorough commentary on the entire book of Revelation. And I call it...
It's by Greg Hennett, G-R-E-G. Last name is H-I-N-N-A-N-T. And pick up the book. It's called what now? Revelation Notes.
That's one word. Revelation Notes, one word. Yes, oh, yes. Yes, and I call it an inspirational commentary on the book of Revelation, but I want to inform your readers, it is very. Informational and each text of the book of Revelation, every one of the 22 chapters, that I give you a grammatical, historical interpretation of the text first, then I give you an application of it.
So it's very useful for pastors, teachers. It would be a very, very helpful teaching tool.
Now, it's a large book, so. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, for my YouTube channel. If not for God with mighty witch.
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