Hope in Post Partum Depression

Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. Welcome to Hope in the Morning. I'm Emily Curtis, and joining me to host today is Robbie Dilmore. Hi.

Motherhood is said to be a woman's greatest joy. But today we're going to talk about how we can encourage women who experience postpartum depression. And the reality is that postpartum depression is more common. been We even know because a lot of women feel uncomfortable admitting that during this season that should be considered their most joyful season. they sometimes feel like they are in the deepest valley that they've ever found themselves in.

So joining me today is Tanner Shoesmith, and she is very graciously willing to share her story of what what motherhood looked like for her during her first round and um How the Lord saw you through it, just how He had His faithfulness and So, yeah, will you just kind of share with us a little bit about what your first pregnancy was like to start with that? Yeah, my first pregnancy, so it was very exciting. It was during COVID.

So as a teacher, I was teaching online.

So if I needed to go throw up because I had some pretty bad all-day sickness, I could just, you know, turn to the side. you know, take care of things. And it wasn't this huge ordeal. I feel like it was a grace of God to be able to be pregnant while teaching online because it made going through that first trimester so easy. And then as I had to transition into not teaching and, you know, being at home with my boys, it was nice to be able to just kind of drift into maternity leave instead of having to be in person teaching and doing all of that transitioning and being pregnant.

Yeah.

So were you like super excited when you found out that you were pregnant with your first son? Yes.

So my husband and I had been trying to get pregnant for six months.

Okay. And so when we found out that I was finally pregnant, it was like, wow. It was such a huge answer to prayer. Yeah.

And so I'm assuming that motherhood was something that you were really looking forward to and anticipating with great joy. And when when you had your son, what was that experience like for you when you delivered him and the the weeks the weeks following that?

So at 37 and a half weeks, my water broke at like 4:30 in the morning.

So I was like, okay, my water just broke. Can I take a shower? And like, so I called a friend of mine that I'm close with who is a doula. And I was like, hey, do I have to rush to the hospital? Or can I just take my time?

And can we just get there? She's like, oh, yeah, take your time.

So we arrived at the hospital around 6.30 a.m. in the morning. And then I delivered my son by 5.30 that evening.

So it was a really nice delivery. Even though it was during COVID, I knew two people in the hospital system.

So they were able to be with me as I delivered, which was just such a great blessing because it was like, okay, I know I'm in good hands. Even though it feels like it's a time where a lot of things are uncertain and, you know, there's this COVID virus out there. It was just a huge comfort to be able to have people that I knew around me. Yeah.

Yeah.

That for sure is. I mean, that's one of the things that I think a lot of people said, whether it was during delivery or hospitalization during COVID, it's scary to be in any of those unpredictable situations and not have a lot of familiar faces around.

So after you delivered your son, who was born healthy and beautiful little boy, what were the weeks following that like for you?

So I was more irritable than usual. Typically, women go through baby blues after they have their babies.

So there's like a lot of hormonal mood swings. And so I felt a great amount of joy because I had my baby. Nursing was great. Nursing was not hard. The lactation consultants kind of sometimes felt like, or I felt like they sometimes made it more difficult than it needed to be because it was pretty natural for my son and I, and it worked very well.

And then. Even though all of that was going super well, I was not bonding with my son as much, which was weird to me.

So I enjoyed spending time with him, but I didn't feel like I was doing a good enough job. I felt like I was a complete failure. I just kept. Feeling this ongoing sense of what am I, like, is this the right thing for me to be doing right now? Even though I knew that.

Like being a mom was all I ever wanted to be.

So it was really tricky for me to navigate these feelings that I did not expect at all. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that that is I think all all postpartum depression It takes you by surprise because it's not at all what you expect. Like you said, you were so looking forward to being a mother and. And all of these emotions come flooding at once. But then, when you're saying that you had a hard time bonding with your son, did it just, did it not feel like what you expected it to feel like? Is that kind of what you mean?

I feel like I looked at him and he looked like a newborn. Like, he did not look like my son, he looked like. a child. Like it just, I like when I had my second baby, looking at him, I'm like, okay, this is my son. I love him.

And I felt this overwhelming sense of like, I need to hold, protect, love you. With my first son, I didn't feel that level of fierce protection.

Okay. So it was kind of like, I know I should be feeling something and I'm not. It was like an absence of feeling and then also an overwhelming sense of guilt over not having those feelings. Yeah, that's a hard thing. And Robbie and I were talking before you got to the studio that I've experienced some postpartum depression too.

You and I have talked about that a little bit. But he has experienced it on his end as well. Not personally, but and you're also a pastor. And so you've dealt with these situations as well. What has your experience been like in counseling this, whether it's been in your own family or people in your church?

Well, that's the expectation that is unmet. And so whenever we have those, it's like, where can we go to get some reassurance? Because believe me, there's one person that completely understands this. And obviously, you can turn to God. But the other thing is just to recognize that it's okay not to be okay.

You know what? And I can see that, you know, in both you guys' cases, you'd think, man, this is the most ideal mom. You just look at your school teacher. You know, you've got all these other things going on.

So you had this expectation, right, that this was going to be, but it's okay. And so I'm really curious, when did you first realize, wow, this is more than just I'm not feeling it. There's something else going on with me. At my four-week appointment, you have to take that Edinburgh depression scale screening, and I lied on it. Like, they asked questions like, Oh, do you feel guilty?

Do you feel like a failure? Do you have unwanted thoughts? And of course, the answer to a lot of those questions was yes, but I was like, I shouldn't be feeling this. Yeah.

I shouldn't. Like, there's no reason for this. I have plenty of support. My husband is, he has paternity leave, and he's been doing a great job supporting me.

So many friends and family members have been surrounding me with so much love. I shouldn't feel this way.

So, of course, I'm going to mark no and I'm going to lie on this. And so, the nurse who's doing my checkup was like, Hey, you barely passed this screening. You might just have some residual baby blues. If you keep feeling really kind of, you know, motherhood is hard. If it keeps like it's feeling like it's something that's difficult, go see your primary care physician and talk with them.

And so, about two weeks later, I was talking with a friend and I kind of just shared with her heart-to-heart where I was mentally. I didn't lie to her like I did on that little screening. And she was like, Yeah, that's not normal. You need to see a doctor, probably.

So, I went and saw a doctor, and I saw my primary care physician, and I started taking some medication to treat depression. I think what you said is such an interesting and important thing to talk about is the fact that you said I shouldn't feel this way. And so I lied on it because instead of writing how you were feeling, you wrote how you thought you should be feeling. And even within the church, I think it's so important that we have conversations like this. And that's why I'm so thankful, Tanner, that you're willing to open up and talk about this because.

Sometimes we put these expectations on ourselves of feeling like, oh, this is how I should feel. And so I better put on this mask that that is how I feel. But I've even even in what I experienced through postpartum depression, Man was at a foothold for Satan because there's so many. lies that he whispers to you and when it's left Unsaid? It can get very dark very fast because you know, I remember.

When I hit that, after my third son, I didn't have it after my first and second, but after my third, and honestly, I felt like I was more in love, don't tell the others, but I felt like I was more in love with him as a baby than I had ever been with any of my other ones. And yet I had for almost a year. That deep and didn't share it with anybody until it literally was like, I felt all the time like my kids would be better off without a mom than with me for a moment and started thinking of ways that I would take my own life. And finally, it was like I hadn't even told Brent or my mom, and they're like my best friends. And it finally was like when it got to that point.

Then he told somebody, but a lot of times you don't know how am I gonna be received. when I tell people that this is how I'm feeling. What kind of support did you get from your friend that you opened up to?

So when I was first pregnant and I was trying to figure out what the gender was, I had a gender reveal video done because I have family in Arizona and of course they couldn't come out to North Carolina to spend much time with us because COVID.

So, I did a video, and it was Allison Brown and her husband Micah came over. We had this great time doing the gender reveal. We learned that my baby was going to be a boy. And in the conversation following making the video, she just talked with me about postpartum really frankly and said, You know, like sometimes you might just need some help afterward. It might not be exactly what you think it will be.

And she kind of laid the foundation for it's okay to not be okay. Like, you may experience some things that you didn't expect once you have your baby, which I think is. Pretty true for all pregnancies. Any pregnant woman, you know, you might experience some things that you just don't expect after you have your baby. And you probably will experience some things you don't expect, you know?

And I think what a great friend because those are the conversations that you got to lay that groundwork for because you don't know what you don't know. what your experience is gonna be like, you know? Yeah, and for a lot of husbands, you know, they're trying to figure it out. You know, you're you're sitting there going, Why are they something's not right, but they're not talking to me and I don't understand and I don't understand and you know, you're So it's an interesting challenge, right? You're supposed to be your best friend.

Yeah.

But denial is...

Something that I assure you most husbands want. You know, let's just say everything's okay. This will be better tomorrow. Yeah.

And away you go. But I love the fact that you pushed into it. Right. Because I mean therein lies the real opportunity is Maybe I really need to you know, face this and So what did the doctor actually say?

So, when I first saw the doctor, they started me on medication. They said that it might take some time for it to kick in, but it should help you manage some of the intrusive thoughts that you're having. And get back to us if it's not, we'll check in.

So, the medication Wasn't, it was a very low dose, it wasn't as helpful.

So then they doubled my dose the next time I went in for a checkup with them. And then I was returning back to work.

So I thought, okay, I also started seeing a therapist. I'm seeing a therapist. I am taking my medication. I am returning to work because maybe, you know, I'm depressed because I haven't been working. You know, I've been with my baby all summer.

Maybe going back to work will be the little jolt that I need to get out of this.

So I. Again, going back to work and doing all the things wasn't as helpful as I thought it was. I kept masking all my symptoms because, you know, I'm taking all the steps to help treat what's going on. And about seven months postpartum, so I was first diagnosed at seven weeks, and at seven months postpartum, the intrusive thoughts I kind of just started caving to all of them and acting on some of them. And I ended up in the emergency room and was hospitalized for several days.

Wow.

So my husband took care of our little seventh-month-old while I was in the hospital. And that's kind of where. I came to a head with, okay, I have postpartum depression. Instead of looking at how do I end this, and so what a time to pause while we leave you on the edge of your seat to find out, okay. This is where it got to, but oh my goodness, you know, to the rescue.

And I can assure you, God, God shows up. And so we'll be right back with a whole lot more with Tanner. Do you have a testimony of hope? Perhaps you've walked through depression or addiction. Maybe you were diagnosed with a serious illness or have suffered the life-altering death of a loved one.

If you want to encourage others with your testimony, and share the light of Jesus. Visit hopeinthemorning.org and submit your story. Your story might be just what someone else needs to hear to find hope in their mourning. Are you in a season of seemingly endless sorrow? Is your heart longing for encouragement?

Join us on Hope in the Morning to hear powerful testimonies of how God is a light even in our darkest valley. We'd also love to pray for you. Simply submit your prayer request at hopeinthemorning.org. If you have a desire to encourage the hurting with the hope of Jesus, we invite you to join our ministry by giving a donation at hopeinthemorning.org. Episodes like the one you're listening to are only made possible by your donations.

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And today, what an episode, wonderful episode, you know, about postpartum depression and something that needs to be brought out into the light. I love the way you guys brought that out. you know, when it can come out into the light, then obviously God can begin to shed some light on some things. And boy, it really came to light right before we went to the break. If you can kind of take us, now you're now you're in the emergency room and everybody is like Oh no, oh no, oh no And so what happened?

So while I was staying there, my medication got tripled.

So that was actually helped a lot. I felt like I finally had some clarity of mind to be able to process what was going on. And in that moment, I began thinking, okay, what am I doing with the thoughts that I'm having? that keep barraging me? Am I trying to just Get rid of all of them?

Or am I leaning into the Lord and surrendering those thoughts to Him and letting Him direct what should be going on in my thought life? And so instead of trying to figure out, okay, how do I suppress this? How do I mask it? How do I hide it? Instead, just facing it and going, okay, how do I take all of these lies and Basically Put myself where the truth is and put those thoughts in light of truth so that I can.

Just keep moving forward day by day.

So instead of trying to end my depression, how can I live with this depression and live with it in a godly way so as not to just, like, I don't need to feel guilty. I don't need to feel defeated. I am in the Lord. He loves me. And so taking on those promises that He's given me, how can I rest in those instead of resting in all these thoughts that keep popping up out of nowhere that are just complete lies?

Yeah.

Can you give me an example or two of like a lie that was constantly going through your mind and how you combated that with truth?

So, one of the lies was, I'm not a good mom, and that I am worthless. And as a Christian, When we're called in Christ, there's no condemnation. There's no reason for us to judge ourselves.

So it was really difficult for me to stop criticizing myself. But I knew that Romans 8:1, there's therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

So why do I keep condemning myself when I'm a believer? And Christ has done so much work for me, what? Why is that even something I have to contemplate?

So that was one lie I kept telling myself.

So, whenever I started feeling that unnecessary guilt or failure, Romans 8:1 was super helpful. What What do you think was one of the catalysts of you feeling like you were a bad mama? Do you think that it was not, I mean, I'm assuming part of it is how you were feeling. But was there any aspect of that that was driven from comparison? I don't necessarily think it was comparison.

I think it was just a sense of. I should be happy right now. I should be super enjoying having a son. I shouldn't feel like I'm detached from him. I felt like I was.

Uh Dark spot in his life. I felt like I couldn't show up for him in a joyful way. And because of that, because I was tired all the time, as a new mom, it's exhausting.

So I felt like, well, I'm tired all the time.

So I'm not. I'm happy to wake up at 4 in the morning to nurse you. I probably should be happy to do that, but I'm not. I think there's just the challenges of motherhood. I knew I'd be facing them, but I didn't think that.

I would face them with an attitude of like, oh man. Yeah.

You're crying again. How do I help you stop crying? Yeah.

Well, and motherhood, especially as a first-time mom. Can be such an isolating experience. And that's another thing that is not talked about a whole lot. When women are pregnant, it's just, oh, you can't, I can't wait to see this baby and see you be a mom. You're going to be such a great mom.

But there is a loneliness to it because you're home a lot, because you have to, you know, maintain their schedule.

So you're home a lot. But then there's, The compounded loneliness of depression. If you find yourself there, you feel that much more alone in this experience because. You know, oftentimes we witness other moms and we're like, oh, they're back at church and they just gave birth three days ago and they look great and they're so happy. But that's not the case for everybody.

Um When you went on to have your second child, when you found out that you were pregnant again. What fears did you have to work through? in that pregnancy. A lot of times, women who have had postpartum depression occurs again.

So, I was a little nervous that I might develop postpartum depression again.

So, I prayed a lot with my husband. We talked about okay, if these signs start showing themselves, what will we do? What support will we try to actually get ahead of time? And then, also thinking through, okay, how can we be honest with each other about what's going on? Because the first time around, I just wasn't honest because it just didn't feel like if I was honest about how I was feeling, some people told me, Oh, you don't need to see a doctor for depression, you don't need to take medication, all you have to do is read your Bible.

Just read your Bible, and that should help you heal. And honestly, if I had just read my Bible, it wouldn't have hurt. But only doing that alone, like I needed to take care of my child, I needed to be able to have the space in my mind to be able to think properly. And without going to see a doctor or receiving medical help, I would not have had the ability to. get through depression, if that makes sense.

a difficult thing within the church to admit that You know These medications that we have today are completely helpful, and we put a stigma on it when so many people don't want to have cancer. But when they have cancer, you give them medication, you're that seems perfectly fine. But if somebody has an emotional d uh disease of some kind, whatever that may be, to get medication seems like it, you know, that should not have any stigma on it whatsoever. And yes, reading your Bible while the cancer's invading your body. It's not going to hurt.

But man, chemotherapy might save your life in the meantime, too. Obviously, God's going to be the one that heals. Both of them. But what I love what you said when I was listening. You said you got a hold of that, and that you took that thought captive, obviously, scripturally, and you said, okay.

That's a lot. Right? And often I find in my own life that I go, wait a minute, That's a lie, and then I can hang on to the fact that that's a lie. And that brings hope in the morning, right? There was my hope.

That's a lie.

So, what else am I thinking that obviously I must be under attack? Obviously, somebody else is whispering this stuff to me. This isn't real. And I'm not in a real place.

So, you know, God helped me find what's real. And I love that the way he described it was that the medication gave you the clarity of mind. to take that thought captive, right? That's beautiful. Yeah, I think sometimes we forget that we are soul and body.

And we were in fallen bodies. And, you know, I know that. things like medication for depression is what I would consider. A gray area within the church, some People fall on either side. And I think because of that, there are.

Sometimes situations where You feel like you don't wanna go to somebody because what are they gonna say? What are they gonna say if you? Really feel like this is what I need to get help, and then they're gonna feel like, well, that's not a godly. Response and I agree with you, Robbie, completely that sometimes, especially when there's so much going on and a As postpartum, a lot of it is in your body as well.

So it's going both places. But what goes on in our body can affect our soul, can affect our thinking. And, but sometimes you have to be able to quiet that noise in order to digest the truth. And I you know, I think that when we when we don't take the time to listen to other people's stories and understand where they're coming from, and we just we have a blanket theological statement for everything without the empathy of understanding where they're coming from, It becomes true. Truth without love.

And that's not helpful. Um I wanted to ask you, because I know you and I kind of connected on this topic because you had shared with me when Hope in the Morning came out the book that it was helpful to you in your journey of postpartum depression. Would you share a little bit about how that was helpful to you in that season? It helped me see that the problems that I was facing, the suffering that I was facing, wasn't necessarily always due to sin. Yes, there's sin constantly in our lives, and we're constantly battling sin.

so thankful to the Lord that He forgives us of our sins. But Not everything is due to just, okay, like I sinned and here's a punishment from God. And I feel like so oftentimes in the church, we just assume that if somebody's going through a struggle, there must be some sort of sin that needs to be overcome in order for them to get through that struggle. And so, reading Hope in the Morning, here are all these really wonderful Christians. And kind of like Job, all of a sudden, something is just handed to them in their lives that is not, it feels like it's not from God.

And yet, God gives us the ability to endure our trials. And so when I read Hope in the Morning, it was that focus of enduring a trial. The trials are going to be present regardless of whether or not we. Whether or not We're sinning, if that makes sense. The trials will come and they may not end.

There may not be an end in sight to them. But God gives us the strength to endure them. And I feel like reading that and learning that from Hope in the Morning, seeing other Christians go through even greater struggles than what I faced with postpartum depression was really, really helpful. You know what I think is cool when I look at both you guys. You know, you two tremendously gifted.

Individuals, right? Like, I would imagine that being an awesome school teacher, which you are, right, that felt kind of natural, and you just went right into it and you're like, of course, I can do this, you know, and God blessed you because it was your gifting, He gave you that. And the same thing with Emily and her ability to sing and do poetry and write and all this.

So, just naturally, this part of my life is going to be like that. And so you. You have that expectation, but it's a fascinating thing to me that God allows certain things like that in our lives.

So that we really end up Kind of on our knees. Yeah, yeah. But it's beautiful that We're willing to open up two real friends. And get real help from doctors that really can help you do it. I still think it's a power.

powerful story. could really benefit from medication that have that stigma, or they could really benefit from just telling the truth and and listening to what's going on. And so I'm so grateful for this show today. It's just I thought it was so powerful. Yeah, you know, I think as believers, their There's not one of us that shows up at church that isn't struggling in some way.

And as believers, it's like, you know, when you go through things like postpartum depression, That will humble you really fast because it makes you see that, wow, I cannot. I can't even control how I feel about this, let alone change it all. And I'm not the mom who I envisioned myself to be. I'm not able to do this on my own without any help. And, you know, it.

There's something so beautiful within the church when we can bring our sorrows. to one another. And say hey. I need help. with this and then Love one another and say, Let me carry some of that burden for you.

And I think that that is such a powerful thing to be able to share your testimony of how Christ helped you. how people in the church genuinely came alongside you. to lift you up. out of that pit. Yeah, well, I hate, man, that we're Out of time before out of show.

Yeah, yeah. But to say your story, Tanner has encouraged certainly me, I hope. If you have a last word for somebody listening right now that may be going through it, what how would you encourage them? I would just say that it seems like it's endless. um especially when you're depressed.

But There are certainly ways that you can endure and God will help you through that. And on the other side, you're enjoying your children, right? Oh, yes, of course. They're wonderful. There is an other side.

It is. It is. It's a hard thing to fit somebody's story all in there, but I think that I think hopefully, other moms that are facing this will listen to your episode and see, like, it's okay to get help, and you're not alone in this, you know? I think that that's important.

So, what'd you say? Oh, most podcasts, like, because I was trying to find things when I was depressed, like to listen to, and most of them were like, I ignored the doctors and I took some supplement where I started exercising more. And it was like, I tried those things and they did that. Yeah, I think that that is part of even like when you have trouble nursing, it's like, just drink more water.

Okay, well, if you haven't struggled with it, you don't understand how actually discouraging that is to get that kind of advice because you're like, This, like, I'm on every supplement you can imagine, and I'm drinking all the water. I'm like drowning. And I'm reading the Psalms. Like, I got the Psalms. Yeah.

I could memorize them for you. Yeah.

But it's, it's just. Yeah.

It's like if people haven't experienced some kind of depression, true depression, not just them having an off day. It's very hard to counsel with empathy. And I think that that's an important side of Counseling, whether it's counseling a friend, like we all, as Christians, like we're all counselors, you know, some of us are certified, and some of us are not, you know, and um, but. when we can bring compassion and part of that means like Sitting still. And listening to someone's story and not rushing through and thinking, I got your answer.

You said post-proton depression, like, I got your answer, you know, like, instead of. Everyone's unique. Not every answer is going to be cookie cutter. And I think that's one of the things, even with the stories and Hope in the Morning, that you learn: like, there were multiple stories of child loss. By no means are any of the stories the same, you know?

And, um, But if people can sit with you and actually listen to you, if you have a close friend that's saying, Tell me everything. Tell me what you're feeling, tell me what you're thinking, what you're struggling with. then they they can actually be a voice of comfort and and reassurance to you. And like and sometimes we need people to come alongside us and like and speak that truth because you can't. When you're in those seasons, like you just are not in a good place to speak truth to yourself.

So, you need somebody else to speak truth, but if they don't know what lies you're feeding yourself. They cannot speak biblical truth to you in those moments, you know? Have you found that as a pastor that? that You counsel things that you've experienced differently? No.

Well, interestingly, it's very few things that you counsel you didn't experience at some level because. You know, Satan makes a great One of his greatest strategies is to convince us all that this is totally unique to you. Nobody else experiences this. You know, this is something that, you know. You know, you're strange.

You've got this problem. This is, you know, but no. Um No temptation is seized except that which is common to man, you know, as they say. But I would love to know, and I think it would be really helpful for men out there everywhere, what would you? Tell husbands out there would be the proper response to the situation.

I already heard that it's not about the nail. Have you ever seen that? Video clip. I don't know that I have seen it. Have you seen that?

You're laughing like you've seen it. Is it the nails, the hammer, not every? No, there's a nail in this woman's head. Oh, no. Oh, no.

And she's talking to her husband, and he's trying to pull the nail out, right? And she goes, it's not about the nail. And she goes, but I have this achy feeling, and I'm getting all these knots in my sweaters every time. And he's trying to fix it, right? Like every man, you know, just like.

I can fix it, I can fix it, you know, let me fix it, but. Yeah.

So finally he just, you know, it was like. That seems hard, you know, and she just goes, Oh, and she mouths but that's the deal. Can you really listen while you think you've got exactly the whole it's called It's Not About the Nail, if you want to watch it on YouTube. Yeah, I'll have to watch it. But nonetheless, what would you counsel husbands?

I would just say patience and grace. I feel like there's many moments. My husband did a great job of just extending grace to me if I was extremely exhausted because fighting off intrusive thoughts can be very fatiguing. Like, I don't know why it's so wearisome, but it can be. And so, I didn't really have any energy throughout the day.

And so, he would take on some of those tasks, like doing the dishes and holding the baby or changing the baby's diaper at night, just doing so many different things to provide and extend grace so that I could get some of the rest I needed when I. could rest, if that makes sense. Did you feel like rest on just a a practical day to day You know, form was one of the best tools you had for healing. I feel like sometimes all I wanted to do was rest. And so resting wasn't helpful, but it was a temptation to do it.

So I felt like sometimes I had to just get up and start doing something and get myself out of bed to get through the day. And sometimes I really was tired and I just needed to sleep. And in those moments, I would actually just fall asleep.

So that was also kind of an indicator that this isn't a normal form of postpartum. I'm really sleepy all the time. And my son, my first son, he. I don't want to. He started sleeping through the night around two months.

He was a little trooper. He does great with sleep. And so he was resting so I could get some rest, and yet I was still feeling. completely tired throughout each day. And so my husband sort of being like, oh, You're sleeping, you should be fine.

He was like, Oh, you're tired.

Well, let me step in and help.

So he was extremely supportive. Going off of what you just said, where you realized that because you were like wanting to sleep all the time, you thought, I think there might be something here. What are some of the other things that maybe some moms that are listening that think, I wonder if this is more than the baby blues or more than just I'm tired postpartum? What are some things that you would encourage that if you're having these symptoms consider talking to your doctor. Uh just just a lot of Unreasonable guilt.

So, um, if nursing isn't going as well, or you think, oh man, I should be nursing my baby every three hours, and it's been three and a half hours, and I have so feeling like you have to, um, just like an anxiety over what the baby is doing or, um, what you're doing for the baby.

So just level, like just unreasonable. Expectations and anxiety you have set for yourself.

So if you feel like, oh, my baby missed a nap, it's my fault. No, your baby just misses naps sometimes.

So I think One of the symptoms that I wasn't expecting was hyperfixation on issues.

So if something didn't go well, like if during one day, like if I nursed my baby really well, but there was one nursing session that just didn't seem right, I would fixate on that one session and be like, well, I'm not good at nursing. I need to stop.

So hyperfixating on issues, feeling an immense amount of guilt for no reason, fatigue. There's a lot of different symptoms that go along with depression. And so it's kind of hard to, but those were some of the ones that really stuck out for me.

Okay. And that's kind of what made you realize This is something more, and I need to go get some help for this.

So, did you? You said you started receiving help at seven weeks, is that right? Seven weeks, yeah.

Okay, but you didn't, that was an ongoing thing, and you didn't necessarily get the full amount of help that you needed until seven months. Is that right? Yes, yep.

So, some of the intrusive thoughts I was battling were self-harm. and um suicidal ideation, and those started becoming overwhelming and out of control. And that's when at seven months I came to a head with those um intrusive thoughts.

So there were a lot of symptoms, but the intrusive thoughts were the ones that were really difficult to um to understand And Ask for help with because you know that thinking those things are wrong. Like even as you're thinking them, it's like this isn't right. But then you get so overwhelmed by those thoughts sometimes that it's hard. You just are so worn down by the lies that you tell yourself that it's hard to. overcome them.

Each and every single day to a full amount when they're wearing you down. And so I feel like that aspect of postperum depression is where, at seven months, I just needed to be on triple the dose of what I was taking. Did with the hospitalization, was that a decision that you realized I need to take myself to the hospital, or did your husband say, where I'm taking you to the hospital? Or what did that look like? That day, that morning, I went to work.

And I was sitting in a meeting with teachers. We were having a training, and I couldn't stop crying. I felt like the job I was doing was worthless. That, like, this tra what we were talking about as teachers just. Wasn't helpful because there's this pandemic going on, and all these things of, well, this is just not what we need to do right now.

I need to be at home with my kids. I'm wasting my time here. And then, um, One of my coworkers looked at me and she's like, You're just really sad today. Why don't you go home and and go to see your doctor? Because you just seem very, very not yourself.

So I came home and I um Just did not feel well. My husband was with me, and he's like, Okay, we're gonna call your doctor and go as soon as we can. I'm not leaving your side until we go. And then at the doctor's office, She the doctor I was talking to looked at me and she's like, What are you thinking right now? Just tell me your thoughts.

And so I was like, okay, I'll just tell you what I'm really thinking. And when I started talking, she's like, hold on, let me record this. And I was like, oh no. But I was like, no, I'm going to say it.

So I said what I was really thinking, which was. A lot, just a lot of suicidal ideation. And she was like, Okay, you can't leave here. We're gonna make sure that you either are going to a behavioral health center or the emergency department, but we can't let you, we can't let you leave without knowing that you have some support and care from here on out.

So, um, She talked with about going to Old Vineyard Behavioral Health, but I wouldn't have been able to pump there for the baby because I was still nursing.

So going to the emergency room, I'd be able to be taken to a part of the hospital where I could pump and receive treatment. and go from there. Wow.

I mean, you so you said that you were at the hospital for a couple of days. How long, once you left the hospital, did Your treatment. Continue. Probably so I left the hospital in October of 2021 and I was still receiving treatment up until um July of twenty twenty two, twenty twenty Yeah, July, like July and August.

So, I mean, I still kept seeing it.

So, I wasn't in remission until July of 2022. That's an interesting thing, too, because I think a lot of people, like, I know for me with my third son, because it had gotten to be almost a year, I was thinking, oh, this isn't postpartum depression. This is something else going on because And I don't even know why I thought this, but I thought, like, oh, postpartum happens in the first, like, three months. Like, that's what I thought. And so I thought, if we're past that, this is something else.

And, like, so I just didn't, didn't even think. to do that. But I think when you understand that your body has done that before, then subsequent pregnancies, there is kind of that fear there, but also you know going into it that you can be a little more proactive than you are when you don't know that that's how you're gonna respond. But I think that's another thing that is a good takeaway for the listeners to know that just because you're X amount of time out doesn't mean that it's not associated with that. And it also doesn't mean that it's like this quick insta fix, you know?

Not to mention that what she described to me was a beautiful Example it's not a It's hard to say that, but it was just, it was a wonderful example of The sliding scale of depression. Whether you're in Porse Pot or whatever kind of depression you got. You know, you start out with beating yourself up and you start out with, you know, Allowing lies to enter into the situation, and you get sad, and you get tired, and then you don't want to get out of bed, and all these things are classic to pressure. you know, whatever the situation is, but then all of a sudden Satan turns it. sticks a knife in you and says, okay, now let's end this struggle.

And these start coming on. Again, this is a opportunity. It's a cry for help that some people unfortunately are They get the stigma, and I don't know. Cry for help, tell the truth. This is what I'm struggling with.

Tell your spouse, tell your mom, whoever. You know, there's teenagers everywhere that went right in the middle of that. Yeah.

And they are afraid to. Say this is what I'm really thinking, or whatever, or what are people going to think I'm nuts, or whatever the situation may be, where it's a completely I actually know very few people that haven't attempted suicide in some funny sort of way, including me. It's not. Unusual. And I love that you bring it out so that it's so clear for people to see, okay, now it's escalating.

And it's going to take something more than reading our Bible and praying. It just is.

Well, now, as Christians, that's part of why Hope in the Morning exists. It's like, how do we. in practical and intentional ways. serve other people? And how do we make it so that we A, have an understanding enough, like we've heard enough of these stories to know, okay, this is what this is what she said was helpful.

I'm gonna try that with my friend. This is what she said was a temptation. Maybe my friend's not feeling comfortable telling me this.

So maybe I need to go to my friend and say, Hey, I've noticed since you had your baby that you seem like things have been a little harder than you expected. Can we just, I'm a safe place for you to talk openly with and give them the opportunity because also when we can bring things to light, when we don't feel like we have to hide them. There's an aspect where it loses its power. Because now it's like, okay, it's in the light. Other people can help shoulder this.

Other people can speak the truth to me. But also, it takes away, it takes away the darkness, which is what. That's what Satan loves. He loves when we are alone and in a dark place. That's where he can do his work.

And that's not what we want. We want to expose everything to the light, including when we are feeling depressed, whether that is through postpartum or through life. And sometimes, you know, sometimes that's something that comes out of circumstances in life. But how do we as believers Go to them and say, I love you. I love you enough to slow down my hustle, which is like what an American thing to always move, move, move, you know?

But I heard something this week that I thought was such a neat. way of putting it, and it is that love and hurry are not compatible. And that is So, as believers, when we are supposed to embody Christ-like love, Sometimes that looks like you gotta stop what you're doing and see that your friend is in need or your family member is in need, and you've gotta be willing to get into the messiness with them and say, you know, like you said that your friend Allison did, be willing to sit there and say, let me cry with you. Let me tell you that this is, you're not alone in this, and that I will hold your baby. While you go get some sunshine or go to a doctor's appointment or whatever you might need to do.

And I'm assuming that. those days that you were in the hospital, your husband probably needed people to come alongside him and help him too, right?

So did he get to have, was he off work during that time of watching your son? No, he worked full time while taking care of baby. And so he did a phenomenal job. But I think that's one of the things when we looked back, we're like, man, we could have asked for a little bit more help. Yeah.

But it was just such a whirlwind. There was so much going on, and it was such a time of, you know, like you were talking about the escalation. It happened so fast that before you could even take a breath, it's like, okay, I think part of it is, do I want to ask for help? And if I do, how do I do that? How much time will I have to spend explaining the circumstances in order to receive the help?

Whereas, if I just go in and get this done and do what I need to do, um, By that time, Getting help. It's such a fleeting moment that I think by the time you receive the help, you may not even need it, if that makes sense.

So, you know, it gets back to what I want to find. I'm writing it down, by the way. I'm stealing that completely. Love and hurry, do not. They can't compatible.

Yeah, they're not compatible. Absolutely amazing statements. Yeah.

And so, so true. Unfortunately, you know, even this morning, I have to tell it on myself, you know.

So I go to kiss my wife goodbye, and I have my radio show on my mind and all this stuff.

So I just give her a little, she goes, No. No, that's you know, and I just think back to it. I think, wow, it's so true, man. I mean, you're the most important person. And I can't take the time to say goodbye, right?

Because, you know, you just don't know. But it's beautiful. I just. Yeah, you know, even when I heard that, I was thinking a little bit about the fact that. As much as we all hate to suffer.

If we can put on a Christ-like perspective, There can be a sweetness in the suffering. if it makes you slow down. And focus on the Lord. And there is something about that, like when you go through the loss of a loved one, or if you end up in the hospital because you have a health issue of any kind, whether it's a mental health issue or a physical health issue, you're literally forced to slow down. And it's like all of a sudden, I mean, I'm sure all of us here have experienced the loss of a loved one.

And it's like when you're in those dying moments or the funeral planning moments, nothing else is on your schedule. That's it. That is your focus. And there's something. Beautiful.

About that, of just being able to simplify because man, we do not live simplified lives. And I think we are missing out on a lot of things because we are just. bombarded with the hustle. you know, and even as moms, like there's so much to that. Of feeling like, I've got to keep this schedule, and I've got to get myself back in shape, and I've got to keep the house clean, and I better have a homemade meal cooked, and you know, and you know, and it's like during those newborn seasons, it's like you got to cook the meal and be the meal.

And so it's like, you know, it's like, it's, it's a lot. And instead of just, Even having the grace to allow ourselves to say, it's okay. to just slow down. It's okay to say, No, this is my one and only focus right now. It's okay to say no to commitments and even.

You know, it's like... There's a hustle sometimes, even within the church, of like, how many groups are you serving in? And.

Sometimes. Yeah.

But you know, it's like one of those things where it's like, if you. Mm-hmm. I think we sometimes forget that it's better to do few things well. than it is to do everything with mediocrity. But we want to do everything, you know?

And we want to be, we want to be seen as people that can do everything. And that's just not, that's just not what we're created for. You know, even God rested, and yet. we don't tend to rest, you know? But what what are some of those practical ways?

I know you said that you that you and your husband discussed how you wish looking back that you kind of had asked for more help, but what are some of the best ways that people can jump in and serve During a season of postpartum depression or even just depression, you know, addressing it more broadly. I think just um Do helping with the daily tasks, because I feel like the daily tasks even feel like they can be difficult to get done, but they're things that are kind of just they make your home environment, your en environment around you more welcoming.

So having a cooked meal. Just taking time to go on a walk with you. I feel like so many of the women who came alongside and walked with me and talked with me, because I wasn't getting out of the house much, but taking a walk around the neighborhood and talking with women who I felt like I could be genuine with and openly just kind of discuss what was going on and how my day was. And if I mentioned something like, oh, you know, We've been eating quesadillas 24/7 because that's all we're cooking right now, because that's all we have time to make. You know, they would show up with a meal.

So, and then I think that moving forward, I wish I had shared with more people: okay, this is kind of like what my husband and I enjoy as a meal the most because that would have been, guys, I feel like there were so many people asking us, What can we do? It was hard to communicate all at once.

Sometimes it was just exhausting to say, This is what we need. Right. So, um, Just showing up and helping with dishes. You know, if you see something in the sink and just doing a dish was super helpful.

So just seeing a household chore, just kind of, it's hard because I feel like. People, you can't expect them to do things you don't ask them, but the people who were most helpful in that season were the ones who showed up and just did things without my husband and I asking them. Yeah, that's one of the common themes actually in the book Hope in the Morning is that you know people will say, What should you not say? And I would say the number one answer was don't say let me know if you need anything because exactly what you just said, like They don't know exactly what they need, but it also is tiring to think through what are my needs.

Okay, who said that they could help me? I guess I need to text so-and-so that they can help me with this, and I should text so-and-so that they can help me with this. But instead, it's like that's such a takeaway as the church is like. Look, proactively look. What can I do?

How can I serve them for a mom, or say, a new widower, or situations like that? Housework is huge for a new widow. Yard work is huge. And just like it's so much more helpful to say, Hey Tanner, can I come by on Tuesday or Thursday with a meal? Does your family have any allergies or any foods you don't like?

So much easier. You know, like you don't have to think through every little thing, but you're giving them some options, but not a lot. Fewer options are better. It's like, that's why Costco does so well, right? The fewer the options, the better you are.

But also, I want to say one more thing with what you had just mentioned, which is that with the women that you felt comfortable. Telling when we, as men or women, when we are willing to just be honest about our struggles. you become the person that people feel comfortable with because it's like, okay. I know that they've struggled with these things and so You feel You become a less threatening person if I wanna I'm just going to throw it out there like that because there's some truth to that. You feel like, okay, they're going to.

They're going to be compassionate. with me. And it doesn't mean that there aren't times that we need Instruction. that we need admonishment But man, like even when I went through the counseling class at our church, I think you can correct me if I'm wrong, Robbie, because sometimes I get it wrong, but I think it's in Ephesians when it talks about different ways that you deal with different people through counseling. And There are seasons for admonishment and situations.

When someone's in the middle of their grief, that is not the time for admonishment. That's when they need to be encouraged and built up. And then later, when they're at a place, then that's when you lovingly. admonish with the word. But not when you don't kick them when they're down.

And sometimes you don't know, man, if I tell this person what I'm going through, is it going to result? in my valley getting darker. You know, or are they gonna be are they gonna come and shine light? on my darkness. That's what we want to become.

That's what we hope is the equipping aspect of this show: is that how do we become Truly the hands and feet of Jesus. What does that look like? What does that look like to be gentle? What does it look like to be filled with love and compassion in a practical way? And sometimes it looks like doing someone's dishes, folding their laundry.

mowing their lawn. You know, those are ways you can tangibly love other people. That's crucial that we learn to do that. Yeah, you can be more right. For men out there, you know, we often in the mask on journey, we talk about it.

Bleed first. Be the first person to come out and say, you know, I'm really struggling with this. And you'll be shocked how many people are struggling with exactly the same thing. But, you know, we're made. Perfect through our weaknesses.

You know, Christ is made perfect through our weaknesses, and where I'm weak, he's strong. And if you get that backwards, you know, it becomes. a really difficult place to have a true friend.

Well, it becomes self-centered. Instead of Christ-centered, it becomes, I'm gonna pull myself up by my bootstraps because I should be able to do this. And it's like, We are so weak on our own. And I feel like the older we get, that's actually one of the beautiful things. Becoming older is like you realize you are weaker, whether actually physically or The Lord matures you to see.

Where you're spiritually weak, and those are things that, like. We gotta pass that down and make it so that the people that are in their 20s are willing to say, I don't have it all together. I don't need to have it all together. And they're We're only truly strong when we admit our weakness and find strength in Christ alone. It's beautiful.

She is, I would say, Tanner.

Well, Tanner, we so appreciate you coming on and talking about this. I think it was a very important thing to talk about, not only for those that may be struggling with this, but also to. to know more readily, like, how do we love? One another because scripture tells us that we will be known that we belong to Christ by our love for one another, and so. Let's do that.

Let's do a good job of that. And so I really appreciate you coming on and just helping us learn how we can love each other better. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting. Equip those who walk beside them and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor.

Please visit hopeinthemorning.org. Your donation helps keep these stories of hope on the air. and helps tangibly meet the needs of the hurting.