Prayers You Won't Hear In Church

This is Peter Rosenberger and one of the reasons I wrote my new book A Minute for Caregivers is because I remember the sinking, despairing feeling of struggling as a caregiver. No one knew what to say to me. I didn't understand and others didn't understand me.

For decades I foraged along and tried to find my path through this medical nightmare that Gracie and I have endured for nearly 40 years. And I've learned to speak the language of caregivers. I speak fluent caregiver. No pastor, no counselor, no medical provider, no friend should ever throw their hands up and say I don't know what to say to that caregiver.

Because I do. Give them a copy. This book is called A Minute for Caregivers when every day feels like Monday. They're easy to read, one minute chapters that speak directly to the heart of a caregiver and you can get them wherever books are sold. A Minute for Caregivers when every day feels like Monday. Friends don't let friends caregiver alone. Welcome back to Hope for the Caregiver.

This is Peter Rosenberger. This is the program for you as a family caregiver. Glad that you're with us. Hopeforthecaregiver.com.

Hopeforthecaregiver.com. I've been following this guy on Twitter and so many of you all noticed the fact I was talking about it with my producer and Pat just loved his music and couldn't believe I was going to be able to interview him. And I was thrilled that he came on the show.

God love him for his lack of judgment. And this is Brian Duncan. You have seen this guy for a lifetime in Christian music. He had, he started off with Sweet Comfort Band back in the seventies, right around the Jesus revolution time.

Then he had this amazing solo career. He's got just, you know, Dove Awards, Grammys, you know, just all kinds of accolades. One of the greatest voices. I mean, I love your voice, bro.

I'm not just saying that. I really love your voice and it's a, it's a thrill to have you here, but you know what? He's also been jumping into the caregiver world. And so I wanted him to share some of his things. Plus I saw his book title when he was posting about it. And I thought that's a title I love and it says, dear God, really prayers that you don't hear in church.

That is something that I want to talk about as a caregiver. And that's something I wanted you all to be able to hear. So Brian, welcome to the program. Glad to have you with us. Oh, it's fun.

It's nice to meet you, uh, on Twitter and you know, of course I hang out there a lot, but, um, I wrote that book quite a few years ago. I just, just now put it on Kindle, but, um, I was asked to do a devotional and to write a devotional, like just a little short paragraph thing. And I, you know, I just couldn't be positive enough. I kept, kept turning it around and then pretty soon it was like more, well, you're, you're never going to hear this at church. Well, you know, you're never going to see this in a devotional either. Um, but you know, it became more, more, uh, interesting because it was, well, here's a prayer you won't hear at church, dear God, I don't like some of your friends.

How has it been received so far? Well, it sold pretty well when it first came out, you know, in heart, it was just a paperback hard copy. The publishing company was in Oregon and because they were the only ones that would publish a sarcastic Christian book. Uh, and you know, everybody else said, you know, sarcasm doesn't go well in Christian circles and I'm going, well, that's too bad because I'm a Christian and I'm a sarcastic, you know, it's how I've, you know, managed to keep my sense of humor through stuff that isn't quite, isn't going the way I planned. And so, you know, sarcasm is in scripture.

I don't know why people get this way. Sarcasm is in scripture. Elijah was incredibly sarcastic to the prophets of Baal. And I still believe there's a moment when Gideon was down on the threshing floor and they were all beset by all these people that were coming and attacking the children of Israel. And he was down there below, kind of below, you know, the ground level doing this and the angel shows up and says, Hey, old man of valor.

And he's down here kind of hunched down. And I still think that I think that sarcasm there. So I didn't think about that when, you know, there was some other place where, you know, they're talking about, you know, they were supposed to sacrifice the sheep or something. And I can't remember who was saying it in the Bible is just, it was all this bleeding of sheep that I hear in the background. You know, that's a sarcastic thing. And my favorite one from Jesus is, um, when a guy comes and he's wanting Jesus to says, if, if you can, could you just heal my son?

And Jesus says, what do you mean if I thought that was kind of sarcastic? I think there's a place for it. And I think also there's a place for prayers that you won't hear in church because unfortunately we've sanitized our churches. And so many people that are showing up are just beat up and they're, they're bloody and it's gross.

I mean, it's life is messy and icky. We owe it to others just to re to extend the same grace that we ourselves have received. So when you started doing these prayers, these are, these are real prayers in your life. This is how you were walking through your own journey. But yeah, they were, they started with, cause I was in counseling, you know, way before I married my wife and being in the music business will make you crazy and Christian music will make you even worse crazy.

I think cause you know, you're just, the expectation is that somehow you're flawless and you know, you twitch wrong and you know, somebody's got a problem with it. So, um, but I had some counseling and one of the first things that he asked me to do, you know, says, well, why are you here? And I said, I really don't know.

I just not doing well. And I don't even know what that means, but they said, you know, write a letter to God, just start and write down, dear God. And, and then don't even think about it. What's the first thing comes off of your head. And that was my first prayer was dear God, I don't like some of your friends.

And you know, that was about as refreshing a thought as I had had in a long time. And I started doing that on a regular basis. It was part of a recovery program that I was into, you know, the 12 steps was always talking about, you know, admitting your faults, you know, people promptly admitting, you know, when you're, when you're out of joint and you know, a lot of the stuff in the recovery program was, was the same kind of thing.

We admitted to God, to ourselves and to one other person, someone we trust. And, you know, I've discovered that sometimes, uh, God's the only person I've been able to trust, but, um, I started writing prayers. You won't hear a church because, um, I thought they were a little closer to when you're, when you're in recovery, you sit in a circle of chairs and you admit stuff, you know, you talk about what, what, what you did, what you didn't do. And, you know, I remember a counselor asking me, he says, and, and how did that work out for you?

Like, and then you, you started to realize you had to take responsibility for your own circumstance and that just kind of ruined everything. You know, it's hard to complain when you realize it's going to be up to you to find your way out with God's help, of course. But you know, it became a regular occurrence to just, what would I say to God right now if I, you know, I'm tired.

That's one of my number one things, dear God, I'm tired. Uh, dear God, whatever it's like, yeah, I'm sure you're going to do something, but I don't feel like your hands are my prayers. When you shared this with some of your friends, did it resonate? Um, it was hard to tell, you know, I'm, I'm around a lot of people when I, that are, you know, acquaintances and I've grown up in church circles where, you know, a lot of people, they feel like you're kind of watch yourself because they're, you never know who exactly is going to, uh, stop extending any kind of grace. There's certain lines that we all draw in the sand and sometimes we don't tell, tell our friends what those are. And so, I mean, a lot of times the people that I talk to in, in my Christian circles, um, I'm a little guarded. I'm telling you is you just feel like.

I get that. And I encourage a lot of fellow caregivers here to have layers of trust that you have with people because we tend to overshare. It's so up in our face sometimes. And we're so distressed that we want people to be able to listen to us, but most people aren't prepared to handle the level of stuff that we deal with. And I tell my fellow caregivers and myself all the time, it's okay to have stock answers or surface relationships, but there has to be that core group of individuals somewhere, whether it's in a recovery group, whether it's a trusted pastor, somebody, you have to be able to just say, here it all is. And you have to be able to throw up on the table with somebody and go through the big chunks kind of thing, but to be graphic about it, but you got to have that somewhere in your life.

Well, no, you know, even the things you're talking about in your book was astonishing to me because I'm going, wow, this is pretty refreshing. And you're on a level, uh, in the things that you're writing about and, and the, the specificity, there's the word, you know, uh, that I haven't even bridged, you know, you're talking, I've heard a little bit of your story and you know, you're the real thing. You're the real caregiver. I've been an assistant caregiver kind of my wife went through some really hard years. Um, and she's kind of coming out on the other side of it now, but there was certainly a time where, I mean, I wasn't spoonfeeding her or anything, but it certainly felt helpless to walk beside her and watch her have a stroke or, I mean, not a stroke, but to fall down and, you know, lose a temporary paralysis.

It was all a result of a trigeminal neuralgia. And so there was about four years where, man, I didn't feel like God was answering my prayers and stop wanting to talk to him. I'm going, well, I'm not talking to you. It's like, dear God, I'm not talking to you. Like, that's not a good way to go, but you know, that's been, that's been the case more than a couple of times. I think a lot for a lot of us, we, until we get down to that level of honesty with ourselves and with God, we're not going to have substantive conversations with either party. And that's what it did for me is that I, because I I've had, this has been over a lifetime with me that I've had to wrestle with, uh, coming to grips with a God that I manufactured and, and it was uncomfortable. And, but in his mercy, he has given me things that have brought me to my knees so that I could see him more clearly, not anywhere near what we're going to see one day, but clearer than what I used to have. And I had this thing of, okay, if I do this and I do this, and I had basically a doctrine of, if I just behave the way he tells me to, that he will give me what I asked for. And the only, the only covenant of works that we're saved by are the covenant of Christ works, nothing that I'm going to do, but we get that kind of, we lost that in the garden.

We were not able to do that anymore. And so I've had to come to an understanding, okay, I can't do this. I, I, I, I need a, it, it, as a friend of mine once said, it's hard to cry out to a savior that you don't think you need. So when I came face to face with that need, it's such a profound way.

It was like, okay, something's got to change. And that's what I do. And by the way, don't ever compare with my stuff because I don't want people to do that. Your pain is your pain. And it's an important thing to talk about. The, the good news is the principles apply across the board because they're rooted in scripture, not rooted in opinion. And I have found God to be faithful in this.

And I want others to say, you know what, if Peter found God to be faithful in his stuff, I'm willing to take a step of faith that I can find him faithful in my stuff too. And, and because your pain is your pain. And I, and I want to talk about that some more. When we come back, we're talking with Brian Duncan, go ahead and listen to his stuff. If you've never heard his stuff, go out and listen. If you're a fan favorite, like I am, then keep listening to it.

Cause it's, it's what a great voice, but we're going to talk some more. When we come back, this is Peter Rosenberger. This is hopefully the caregiver.

We'll be right back. Hey, this is Larry, the cable guy. You are listening to hope for the caregivers with Peter Rosenberg.

And if you're not listening to it, you're a communist. All right, welcome back to hope for the caregivers. This is Peter Rosenberg. This is the program for you as a family caregiver, healthy caregivers, make better caregivers. We're talking with singer, songwriter, author, and fellow caregiver, Brian Duncan. And we're so glad to have you with us, Brian, tell us a little bit what happened with your wife. I'm not familiar with what she was diagnosed with. It's pretty significant issue that she had to deal with.

Walk us through that. Number one, it took us probably eight months to even get a diagnosis. Nobody knew what was wrong with her. She just started having electric shocks in her jaw, you know, when she would eat anything. So she stopped. And then every time she would swallow, she would get these electric shocks and she stopped eating and she lost about 35 pounds in a month. And you know, just in horrific pain. Because her nerves were going off on in her mouth in her jaw.

And we eventually were in, I took her to emergency room, just to get her some intravenous feeding because, you know, she couldn't keep losing weight like that not eating. And it was actually an intern, we went to like six dentists and maxio facial surgeons. And it was an intern at emergency room that we sat for 12 hours to see that, that said, I think she has trigeminal neuralgia. And it turns out it's, it's more common than you would, you would think. But I was surprised that, you know, after six neurologists, we couldn't find somebody that worked with it that that actually did surgeries for it. And but you know, every doctor you go to is looking for his particular expertise.

And you know, so if if that's not it, then and they don't see it, then they don't know what's wrong with you. So but after four and a half years, we finally got insurance to cover USC Medical Center for what they call micro vascular decompression, which means they go into the back of your head with a, they drill a hole in your skull about a size of a quarter. And they pull your brain stem back and coat the the nerve in your jaw that's that's going off. And it's it's worked. And it got her off of she goes on huge amounts of what they call oxocar oxocarbamazepine.

And it took me six months to even pronounce it. But that stuff, you know, she kept going, the pain kept coming through. And so they would up her dose, that's all they ever did was just give her more pain meds till the point where the medication was killing her. She was having seizures, and she would fall down at temporary paralysis. And, you know, and we couldn't, we just couldn't go on with that.

I figured the surgery was $100,000 plus. And, you know, we just couldn't do it. But you know, at some point, she was she was suicidal a couple of times. But she, she just felt we've got to do something. So I mean, we look, how are you during this time?

I'm just dumbfounded. You know, at some point, I'm just on the sidelines, watching, like watching a train wreck, and, and not being able to do anything about it. And then we had a religious people that, you know, were would accuse her of, you know, not having enough faith, because we weren't healed.

And we have we ran a lot of healing types, you know, instantaneous transformations. And that didn't happen. And it often does it. And so I got a, I got really, you know, where I wasn't really talking to God much, you know, I certainly wasn't asking him to heal anything, because I'm going, well, you know, there's a lot of, obviously, there's a lot of small print, fine print in the in the prayer life, you know, ask according to his will, you know, don't ask to consume it upon your own interests or whatever. And I'm going, Okay, fine, whatever.

I'm, you know, I'm done praying. And I really felt that way for and I didn't realize the bitterness. I mean, it didn't, it kind of sneaks up on you. You don't really know why you're angry. You're just angry. And, and boy, you find out really quick when somebody says the wrong thing to you and you go off. It's like, Oh, well, look at there. I'm not as healthy as I thought I might be.

No, you get pretty bristly. And your, your nerves are raw. And, you know, when your wife is getting to the point where she's suicidal, I mean, these are, these are not insignificant things. And as her husband, as her caregiver, as her friend, as her life partner, you know, you're sitting there watching this thing, like you said, it's a train wreck and what do you do? And I I've had those conversations. That's why I love the title of your book. And that's why I wanted to have you here because I, I couldn't say the things to other people that I was feeling.

Yeah. I remember being in a hospital room with her one time when she was just groaning for hours on end, she couldn't even articulate the words. She was in so much pain and I was just so angry. This, this dark cloud was on me and I'm looking up at the ceiling of the hospital room and I'm just, are you hearing this God?

I mean, does, does, does this work for you? You know, I mean, I tell you what, God, if you heal her, give her, I tell you what, give her a couple hours relief and I won't tell anybody that way. It won't work your will for her suffering.

And I mean, I was having that. So does that fit into one of your prayers in the book? Well, you know, those, a lot of those prayers didn't, I didn't write those prayers when, when I was going through this. So there might be a, there might be some more prayers. I have a podcast that I do called nutshell sermons and they're, they're sarcastic devotions is like two minutes long. I also do, uh, uh, audio versions of prayers you won't hear in church. And, but I'm going to probably start doing some new ones. You know, the first one I wrote, uh, that isn't in the book is dear God. Uh, what I meant to say was like, um, you know, I forgot who was in charge.

And, um, so I mean, I think that those things are going to keep going. I mean, my prayers are different now than they were even 15 years ago. Well, I think that some people feel like unless we pray in King James, it's not really an authorized prayer. And what changed for me was understanding that the Holy spirit is interceding for me and groans, not even in words and groans that I can't even understand. And I thought all creation is groaning in Romans that says this, I'm part of creation. Gracie's part of creation.

We're all groaning. I remember sharing this in an interview with someone during COVID and Gracie was the first person in our County out here to get COVID in Montana. And people say, how did she do this?

When did you get it from an elk? I mean, cause we live pretty remotely, but she got it when she went to a prosthetic appointment and she was pretty sick. And the reporter was asking me, it was Shannon Breen from Fox news. And she said, how are you dealing with this? I said, where I live, everything is beautiful.

I mean, I look out every window and there's just nothing but a postcard. It's so beautiful. But scripture says it's groaning, but it's beautiful, but it's groaning, but it's beautiful, but it's groaning. And I was not at odds with that juxtaposition of beautiful and groaning, realizing that this is not going to be resolved until he resolves it when he wants to resolve it, when he does this. And I don't have to fight with him about this. I can trust him. And it always goes back to the cross for me, because if he, or what he did at the cross, and I, and I told somebody I've come to understand sin is a bigger problem than we think it is.

And the cross is a bigger deal than we could ever imagine. And, and that's when I was able to say, okay, I'm going to leave this unresolved. And I started shaking hands with ambiguity.

Okay. As you guys have walked through this, what, what has changed in you? One thing's for sure is that there was five years where she was unconscious a lot of times, sleeping and the medication would knock her out. And, and I was alone. I mean, I'm in, in the room with her, but I'm alone. And, and I felt bad because, you know, I felt like I couldn't ask for anything. I couldn't ask God for anything for myself, because that felt really selfish for some reason. And, you know, now, you know, we kind of thought everything would go back to the way things were, but it's, recovery is a nice process, but you know, it doesn't mean you're back to 100%. And there's, you know, there's ongoing groans if you want to put it in your terminology. So for me, you know, we're trying to get reacquainted with each other because man, for a long time, there wasn't deeper conversations. It was all on focused on getting through pain and trying to find the right prescriptions and the right doctors and just a nightmare of, you know, on the phone and just exasperation with insurance companies and all of that. Do you feel like you had to get reacquainted with yourself?

Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm, I still don't know what to say about where I'm at. I know I eventually turned my, my, my isolation into a sense of entitlement. You know, I started to feel like I deserve something else, you know, and it's like, that's how you find addictions, you know, like, you know, well, I, I'm going to just do this because I need a break or I want to escape. So, and that, that's a path that goes to hell in a hurry.

We are all vindication specialists. Yeah. And that's exactly where I, I, I started justifying things for myself because, you know, things that I don't imagine that God would be really pleased with me with, but I'm just going, yeah, but I deserve, I deserve something. And maybe it wasn't even that sometimes it's just like, you just want to escape. You just want to find a, a way to not think about what's happening. You know, you've just had enough reality for one day. I understand. And I, I sadly have been there.

I've had ample time to make every kind of mistake you can make as a caregiver. So the things that I have butted my head up against and feeling, and I think I love what you said there about the isolation, what it turned into was this entitlement. And I think isolation, we saw this at COVID on a global scale, but caregivers understand this intently, um, that when we are isolated, that's when dark things overtake us.

Oh my, and yes. And I want audience members that are listening right now to understand this is not, if you're there, this is not an indictment. This is two caregiving husbands who were led out of that and into a more honest relationships with ourselves, more importantly with God and, and now with others. But we got to start having some honest conversations about what it is that we've believed out in our core and that there's nothing like taking care of somebody with impairments and disability and horrific illnesses and pain to bring out the crud that's in our soul. Cause it's there and God, and God would, God wants it out in his mercy. He's going to give us things to squeeze that out.

My father has a saying that God will pop things. Listen, we got to take a break. We're talking with Brian Duncan. This is Peter Rosenberger. This is hopefully caregiver.

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This is Peter Rosenberger. This is the program for you as a family caregiver. Hopeforthecaregiver.com. We're continuing our conversation with artist, author, songwriter, and fellow caregiver, Brian Duncan, who is joining us to share his journey through these things and also to talk about a book that really caught me when I saw this. Dear God, really?

Prayers that you hold here in church. And I really, I understand that. And I love what you said, Brian, that there were people that were kind of standoffish about the title and some people didn't want to do that.

But I gravitated to that and I believe this audience will as well because we're there. But talk a little bit about what this has done with your music, with your performing, with COVID, with everything else that you guys have had to deal with. Number one, my wife was in real estate and, you know, she had a job and I was in music and I had a job, but then she got to where she couldn't even drive a car because of the medication. And, you know, she would have these attacks that were just unpredictable and she, she had to stop working.

So I mean, there goes half of our income. Then COVID hit and I was out of, I was pretty much unemployed, you know, cause you couldn't do concerts. Boy, we were in a place, but occasionally I would get some things that I could do, but then I was afraid to leave. I was afraid to leave home cause because of the medication, sometimes she would fall down. You know, she fell down on several occasions where I wasn't right there beside her and bled all over the kitchen. And then she tried to clean it up so that I didn't know.

Then it was a panic. If I left town for two days, I would call around to my neighbors and, you know, and, and set up a schedule of people to call and check on her. And her daughter, her daughters were always, they're pretty close by.

And one of her daughters would come over all the time to check on her. It was like, man, I was afraid to be out of the house. And so, I mean, we were, we were in a stuck place for a long time. Where are you now?

I mean, not physically, I mean, I know you're in California, but where, what's next for you? I started the podcast, Nutshell Sermons, which is doing really good, but it's, you know, it's short. It doesn't take a lot for me to record. I don't have to do arrangements and write songs and hire singers and musicians and all that.

It's real simple. And so, I mean, we just play on it. No, well, I, on my podcast, I've been posting songs that didn't make the last record. Um, there are songs that I've, I've got probably three hours worth of music that we never got to record. Do you ever play live on your podcast though?

No, I don't. I used to do the stuff on Facebook and we, we did several, we did, uh, concerts on stage it, but it was just enormously time consuming to get dialed in and set up and ready. And then you'd play and, you know, Facebook, you couldn't tell who was there.

You know, we tried a couple of other apps, but spent a day and a half getting all that stuff set up and it was like, nah, this is not going to work. I just stopped doing that. You know, at some point you just, I've got a lot of friends that have been laid off in recent years and found themselves after 33 years of doing what they did, um, having to start over from scratch and not even know where to start. So I'm not the only one that's been there place where you're going.

I'm not sure what it looks like going forward. The book's nice though. And I'm, you know, I finally went, do you enjoy writing? Do you enjoy your new, your new life as an author? You know, I mean, well, it's not new because you've been doing this for a while. This is not your first book. No, I've written a couple of books.

I mean, they're short. I haven't, I have a really short attention span. I, I won't read more in two paragraphs at a time. It's just, you know, don't make, and don't make me click away from whatever app I'm on to go listen to something else.

It's like that stuff drives me crazy. Now, if I can't see it right now in a flash in two minutes, then I've got other stuff to do. So, well, that's why I did with, with my book. I just did these one minute chapters because I know my fellow caregivers, we got, there's just no way. I mean, I, I can't, I don't have the luxury of sitting down to read like I used to.

And I listened to a lot of things on, on audio books and sermons and things like that and music, but I'm always on, on Bluetooth with my earpiece because I'm always doing the laundry or whatever. I tell, I tell people, I said, this book is okay to read in the bathroom. I know, cause that's why I wrote it. And so my publisher said, we've never had one turned in on a scroll before.

Glad you used two ply. Well, you know what? I, I do a lot of stuff on Twitter. You know, I keep trying, most of my friends are on Twitter and the people that follow, uh, my book, uh, prayers you won't hear at church or on there. And I post, I, I did another book called spoke to God and you know, it's like five second devotions.

That's what those are. I kind of wrote that from just being on Twitter. Cause you know, you've only got a couple of sentences. It better be good. Better be now.

A little bit of time we have left. I want to ask you about one chapter in your book. Are you on speakerphone? I absolutely love that. Tell me about that. Well, you know what? I just started to, you know, I, I'd always hear back, you know, the rumor mill would just chew me up and going, where did you hear that? You know, it's like, and then there, the thing is there were things that would get out that were true, but they didn't have all the details. But you know, no, I remember just thinking, is somebody in your office, are you on speakerphone? Cause you know, there's people that know my stuff that I don't think they should know. You know, that became where the, the joke was, is God on speakerphone. Cause you know, I think some of those angels are in the room. So maybe somebody's yeah, somebody's talking after the, guess what I heard about Brian and then you have to explain it. Well, I love that.

And I love, I look, I want to just set my audience with some of these titles. When can it be about me? My forgiveness.

Is it working? I need you to kill someone. I need you to kill someone. You're you're not following my plan. I mean, these are candid gut level on us.

Yes. It's sarcastic, but this is anybody who hasn't had some of these things. I promise you, you haven't heard enough. You haven't struggled enough because when you start getting down to the, in the muck and Meyer of life, this is what's down there. And it's so refreshing that you have brought this up to the surface of this book. And I just want to encourage this audience to go out to understand that here's a fellow caregiver who understands his journey, who understands a lot of the things that we deal with as caregivers of watching. You've heard him say he was isolated, helpless, frustrated, lonely, entitled, all the things that there are hallmarks of us as caregivers. And you know what? He's lived to write about it.

He's lived to laugh about it. And you know, can I say one other thing too, is, you know, everybody's horrified. Sometimes if you say something just outrageous, like, you know, dear God, my, my forgiveness isn't working, but you know, I learned that in, in, in a recovery program too, that when you say it out loud, it takes some of the sting out of it. And you know, when I started praying real prayers and I didn't waste 30 seconds saying our father, we just come before you now and go through the whole rigmarole, just cut to the chase. You know, God speaks to me in unfinished sentences all the time.

When you say things out loud to God and maybe to one other person, it removes, it takes away some of the power that it has to, to, to, to keep you ashamed, to keep you that's, that's the best word ashamed. You know, I, I can't fix it. I can't fix you. And you know, you start to loathe yourself because you, you're not powerful enough to change anything. And, and then watching somebody else that you love and not be able to fix anything for them. It's, it's a devastating sometimes, especially late, late at night in the dark when you can't get anybody on the phone. Well those, those are the times when I say I'm having a conversation with a ceiling fan, you know, this is an audience that gets that, Brian. And I want you to know how much I appreciate you taking the time to open up your heart a little bit and share these things. I'm telling you it resonates with this audience. I know myself, I know as a caregiver, it resonates with me.

And I'm very grateful that you took the time on this today. Brianduncan.com is where all of this stuff is and you can get his book. It's available on Amazon. Well, you know, it's the best place. Can I just say, um, if you get, if you get the book, you can go to Kindle and uh, you type in, just type in Brian Duncan, spell Brian with a Y and prayers you won't hear in church. Brian Duncan, prayers you won't hear in church and it's on Kindle and you can get it there. And I'm going to link it in here in the podcast as well.

Cause even, even the Brianduncan.com thing, there's two of those and then there's a, there's a couple of pirated Brian Duncan's that I don't, I can't figure out how to get rid of. And so, you know, it's easier to find me there or on nutshell sermons.com. I'll make sure I post all this in the podcast as well.

Please do take advantage of this and go out. It's a great resource. It's, I think it'll make you laugh, but it'll also let you know that in that isolation that we feel as caregivers, you're going to find somebody who's been there. And like I said, he's learned to laugh about it. He's learned to write about it. I appreciate you very much for being on the program today, Brian, we have to do this again.

Well, you know what? I appreciate what you've written and you know, because of the things you've been through, which is, you know, a deeper, uh, experience than I've had, is that you have some incredibly clear points of view. I mean, you, your stuff cutting through the chase is like, wow, that he's got, you've got a sense of clarity in your book that I have not yet found.

I mean, I'm still going, what's wrong with this picture. I would thank you for it, but it, it, it's not me. I've seen my work.

I need a better savior than anything I've done to the table. And, uh, but I, I think the time I've spent with it has helped me. I've stared at this mountain for so long.

And these are things what I wrote in my book is kind of like what you do with your book, Brian. These are things that I wish people had said to me for the longest time. And I, I floundered and I didn't, I didn't know where to get it. I didn't at church. Nobody knew what to say.

People didn't know what to say. And that's got to stop. And you have helped give a vocabulary to people who don't even know how to pray. That is a gift, Brian.

That is a real gift. And we're going to have you back on. We're going to talk some more, but you got to go. This is Peter Rosenberger. This is hope for the caregiver, hopeforthecaregiver.com.

Brian Duncan, brianduncan.com. We'll see you next time. You've heard me talk about standing with hope over the years. This is the prosthetic limb ministry that Gracie envisioned after losing both of her legs. Part of that outreach is our prosthetic limb recycling program. Did you know that prosthetic limbs can be recycled?

No kidding. There is a correctional facility in Arizona that helps us recycle prosthetic limbs. And this facility is run by a group out of Nashville called Core Civic. And we met them over 11 years ago and they stepped in to help us with this recycling program of taking prostheses and you disassemble them. You take the knee, the foot, the pylon, the tube clamps, the adapters, the screws, the liners, the prosthetic socks, all these things we can reuse and inmates help us do it. Before Core Civic came along, I was sitting on the floor at our house or out in the garage when we lived in Nashville and I had tools everywhere, limbs everywhere and feet, boxes of them, so forth.

And I was doing all this myself and I'd make the kids help me and it got to be too much for me. And so I was very grateful that Core Civic stepped up and said, look, we are always looking for faith-based programs that are interesting and that give inmates a sense of satisfaction. And we'd love to be a part of this.

And that's what they're doing. And you can see more about that at standingwithhope.com slash recycle. So please help us get the word out that we do recycle prosthetic limbs. We do arms as well, but the majority of amputations are lower limb.

And that's where the focus of Standing With Hope is. That's where Gracie's life is with her lower limb prosthesis. And she's used some of her own limbs in this outreach that she's recycled. I mean, she's been an amputee for over 30 years.

So you go through a lot of legs and parts and other types of materials and you can reuse prosthetic socks and liners if they're in good shape. All of this helps give the gift that keeps on walking. And it goes to this prison in Arizona where it's such an extraordinary ministry. Think with that. Inmates volunteering for this, they want to do it.

And they've had amazing times with it. And I've had very moving conversations with the inmates that work in this program. And you can see, again, all of that at standingwithhope.com slash recycle. They're putting together a big shipment right now for us to ship over. We do this pretty regularly throughout the year as inventory rises and they need it badly in Ghana. So please go out to standingwithhope.com slash recycle and get the word out and help us do more. If you want to offset some of the shipping, you can always go to the giving page and be a part of what we're doing there.

We're purchasing material in Ghana that they have to use that can't be recycled. We're shipping over stuff that can be. And we're doing all of this to lift others up and to point them to Christ. And that's the whole purpose of everything that we do. And that is why Gracie and I continue to be standing with hope. Standingwithhope.com.