How Jesus Has Equipped You to Live a Radical Life (Part 2 of 2)

All of us are one side of the teeter-totter. One side is relational, the other side is relentless. You know, I'm a relentless side of the teeter-totter. Somebody says it's hot in here, I say it's hot in hell too, let me tell you about Jesus. My wife is on the relational side of the teeter-totter, right?

And she builds relationships over the course of time. But whatever side of the teeter-totter you're on is fine, as long as you ask the Holy Spirit to sit on the other side. That's Greg Steir describing how you can live a revolutionary life of faith by following the extraordinary example of Jesus Christ.

Well, welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller and we're really excited to have Greg back with us today. We are, John, and last time we had a fascinating conversation with Greg about what it means to live a radical life for God, the way Jesus did it.

And, you know, we talked about, yeah, but I'm not Jesus. And you can go back and listen to that, get the smartphone app, or come to the website. Wherever you can get it, we'll have it there for you.

Absolutely worth reviewing. And some of this ground we've covered. Unfortunately, it's so easy for us to get caught up in the cultural norms and expectations of our day. We just get into that rut.

I referred to it as the rut last time. Just, you know, we get married, we have the kids, we're working our careers, we're going to church on Sunday, we're loving the Lord. But God's calling us to something far more challenging is the point.

And it's to serve, to sacrifice, to fight and forgive, and to live by the Holy Spirit's power. I'm excited to talk to Greg more today. Yeah, there's a fullness of the Christian life that we're touching on.

And again, as you said last time, it was great. Today we're going to continue discussing some of the concepts that Greg has captured in his book Radical Like Jesus, 21 Challenges to Live a Revolutionary Life. And you can learn more about Greg and about Dare to Share, the ministry that he founded over 30 years ago.

And this book by following the links in the show notes. Greg, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Glad to be back. Yeah, it's so good.

You know, I was going to raise this last time, but I'll save it for the opening today. I had lunch with David Horowitz, who's not a believer, a secular Jewish man. But he went from being a real liberal to a real conservative, especially around the area of education and school vouchers and all that. But it was so funny, we were at lunch and he was saying to me, Jim, don't you know you're in an alley fight? And the opposition, they have switchblades and they're coming for you. I said, David, we're not stupid. We get that as Christians, but the weapons we bring into the alley are love, joy, peace.

And he goes, wow, those are really bad weapons. But that's the distinction. That's what we're talking about. That is how the world fights. And you see that in politics constantly, which is why it's so rough for Christians in that arena, because we're bringing an entirely different message.

Yeah. I mean, Romans 1 16, I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Christ because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes. And I think sometimes as Christians, as parents, maybe as grandparents, we underestimate the power of prayer, the power of the gospel, the power of God's word. And I think we have to unleash it through our lives.

It's interesting because in our last conversation, we talked a little bit about people. You know, well, I'm not Jesus. You know, how can I be radical like Jesus? I was a roofer for eight years before I was a preacher.

I wish I would have known that. I just got my roof. I would have called you.

I'd be there for you. And four years into my roofing experience, I was miserable because I knew I was called to be a preacher. And my boss, Kenny Sanchez, pulled me aside. He was a believer.

He's like, Steer, I can tell you're depressed. I know you're called to be a preacher someday. Everybody on the roof knows you're called to be a preacher someday, but you're called to be a roofer today.

So roof every house for the glory of God. And something shifted inside of me. I began to roof every house like it was a roof of Christ himself. Christ was roofing that roof through me for the glory of the Father. And all of a sudden everything became worship.

It totally changed my perspective. And so, you know, if you're listening to this and you think, well, I'm just a grandma, or I'm just a construction worker, or I'm just a doctor, or I'm just this or that. No, Christ is in you and wants to live through you and sanctify that job that you're doing for his glory.

Yeah. And I think right now, when you look at the culture and how we apply our faith in the culture, not just our own hearts and our own homes, but how we're out in the culture. I go back to that comment by David Horowitz, because I think, you know, in the church, we have to decide what we're going to fight for as well. So when you define radical, which I want you to do in just a moment, it's in that context of we're not talking about worldly radicalness.

We're not talking about out of control, toxic masculinity. We're talking about God-defined identity and application, which is love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, mercy, all those fruits of the Spirit that are come to bear on a chaotic world. But give us that definition of radical once again.

Well, I think radical is just being radical like Jesus just means taking Jesus seriously and literally and putting into practice what he told us to put into practice through the power of his Spirit who dwells inside of us. And when we do that, we become change agents everywhere we go, because it's Christ through us. And we seize those opportunities.

You know, I have a lot of times people tell me, well, these crazy things happen to you. And I go, they happen to you, too. But you got to walk through the door. You know, doors are open all around us, conversations about Christ ready to happen. But we have to walk through the door. So I believe when we let Christ live through us, we start seeing every conversation, every situation as an opportunity to let him live his life through us.

Where is that lack of courage? I mean, and I've had it, too, when, you know, I'm thinking, OK, is this an opportunity, Lord? And I'm waiting for the Lord to say, yes, Jim, this is the opportunity.

You know, but how do you process that to say, OK, this will be safe. This will be a good time to say, can I talk to you about Jesus? Yeah, I don't know if there's a perfect like a I don't hear the voice of the Lord saying go, but I hear the voice of Jesus in Matthew 28 said, go and make disciples. So I am always trying to turn every conversation into something. So I use what I call ask, admire, admit. I ask questions. I get to know a person. I find out where they're at spiritually.

I admire what I can. Like Paul did in Acts 17 with the men of Mars Hill. And then I admit the reason I'm a Christian is I'm so desperately sinful.

I needed Jesus to save me. And I share my testimony and I share the gospel. And if they shut the door to that conversation, I'm kind. And I try to leave them a good taste in their mouth.

And if they if they continue to want to have that conversation, I just continue going down the road. Last time you alluded to the fact that you came from a family that was pretty violent, you know, and your mom was violent and her brothers were violent and you didn't have that that fiber. You didn't see yourself as a fighter. No, but you ended up in a high school boxing match.

You know, not to embarrass you too much, but I thought I'd bring this up since you wrote about it in the book. You know, it's funny because my whole family was worried about me because all of them were street fighters. I mean, the Denver mafia, the small downs, nicknamed my uncles the crazy brothers.

So when the mafia thinks your family's dysfunctional, that's not good. And I was more like young Sheldon in the hood. I was a terrified, nerdy little kid. I carried a dictionary with me.

I just did not have that gene. And all of a sudden I'm at this Christian school. This Christian school would make you box in gym.

And I got slated with this kid named Salazar who did not like me anyway. He's 20 pounds heavier than me and he knew how to box. And I remember we got the opponents on Monday and we box on Friday. And so on Friday, all during the week, I said, okay, how do I prepare for this?

I should have talked to my uncles. Instead, I rented the movie Rocky and I watched it every night. That'll make you a fighter. Oh yeah, I'm figuring, you know, and I'm shadowboxing and all this stuff. And on Friday, I look across the ring and there is Salazar with his headgear. And I all of a sudden realize I'm going to get killed.

I have no idea what I'm doing. This guy knows how to box. And then something shifted inside of me.

I was like, you know what? He can't box without a head. And if I hit him so hard, his head falls off.

He ain't going to be able to hit back. And something happened down deep inside. I found out.

I found a family gene. And I went out and I hit him so hard, his headgear turned and he couldn't see. And I hit him again. And I jumped on top of him. I think I was drooling when the... Like he was down on the canvas. He was on the ground and I wouldn't stop.

And you're still hitting him. And they pulled me off. And then after that, I kept chasing him. I'm like, come on. I used to call him salad bar. Come on, salad bar.

I'm going to get you. And from that moment on, nobody wanted to box me. Well, here's the thing that I realized is I wasn't a fighter, but I was. And so many of us don't feel like fighters.

We don't feel like we can fight. But all of us are called to fight against who? Against Satan. And where did Jesus do that? In Matthew 4, 40 days in the wilderness, 40 days of fasting. Satan tempts him with his best. You know, think of, you know, Satan come at him with his best shots, trying to knock Jesus out and make him unqualified for the cross.

What does Jesus do? Three times. It is written. It is written. Knockout blow. It is written.

Jab, jab, boom. Knocks him out because he had the word of God memorized. He had memorized scripture. Jesus was not born with the Torah memorized.

He had to memorize it just like every other Jewish kid. So my whole point in the book is let's be ready to fight. You may not feel like a fighter, but Satan is coming after you. Memorize verses of scripture. Whatever you're tempted with, memorize those verses of scripture and fight back. It is written.

Boom. You know, Greg, sometimes in our individual walk or if a person doesn't know the Lord, this concept in your book about wrestling with God. You know, I applaud people that shake their fist at the Lord when something really super negative happens in their life, loss of a child.

But keep your heart open. I mean, God can take that shaking fist, but then you've got to trust that he's going to speak to your heart at a deeper level and speak to that idea of wrestling with God and how God is all in for that wrestling match. You look in the Old Testament, look at Jacob wrestling all night with the angel of the Lord, which many theologians believe that was, you know, Christophany was Christ, you know.

And they're wrestling all night. And he's like, let me go. And Jacob says, I won't let you go until you bless me. And he even touches his hip and wrenches Jacob's hip and he still won't let him go.

I won't let you go until you bless me. And finally he changes his name. And from that moment on, Jacob walked with a limp, but he walked with a new name. He wrestled with the Lord and came out changed. I think of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane.

I mean, he wrestled for three hours. He was bursting blood vessels in his prayer, looking for a clause in the atonement contract. If there's any other way than dying on a cross, being separated from you, feeling your wrath, you know, make it so. And at the end, he taps out.

Nevertheless, not my will, but yours. He taps out. He submits to the father.

And he takes on the cross, wrestling with the father. And I think about this. I think of my daughter, Kaylee. I'd go on these trips. I would travel.

I'm a travel and evangelist. And I come home and my little five year old daughter would say, Daddy, let's wrestle. And we would wrestle, you know, and I, you know, fake, you know, WWE to the ground. She would win.

I would win. But she was, you know, she would do this. And when she turned 12, I came home from a trip. She's like, Dad, let's wrestle. And I took to my wife and I'm like, Dad, she wants to wrestle at 12.

She goes, it's just her way of being close to you. And she started struggling in middle school with debilitating anxiety, like to the point where she couldn't sleep. She would come in. She was, you know, tears. We brought her, got her to counseling, went through all the stuff.

And I said, you know, Kaylee, perhaps anxiety is God's way of saying to you, let's wrestle. And she began to write music. And she would pour out her heart to God and her anxiety in the form of music. And she began to pray. She's in the word. And to this day, I mean, she's a she's a freshman in college. She's serving the Lord. Not that she never struggles with anxiety ever again, but she has been brought close to the Lord as a result of her anxiety.

Instead of pushing her away from Christ, it pushed her to Jesus. Yeah. And so the wrestling match. Yeah, wrestling match with God. Greg, another challenge of the 21 challenges, and we're not covering them all.

So people can order the book and, you know, get them all, which I would strongly encourage you to do so. But another one is proclaim that we should be bold in our witness for the gospel. That makes sense sometimes. That's our struggle with the Lord, right? Lord, do you want me to be stronger?

How do I be stronger? That's fair. But you have a remarkable story about a fifth grade student named Vicki in the school. What happened with Vicki that should encourage all of us? So my wife, public school teacher for 30 years, and she could not, you know, jump up on her desk and give the gospel. She could do it once.

It'd be her last day of school. Right. Right. But she knew how to seed conversations. And so she set up a debate between Vicki and Dan. And Dan was the evolutionist kid that was atheistic. And Vicki went to our church when I was a pastor.

And so I trained all of our church from elementary school through senior citizens how to share the gospel. So she stood up and she was going to debate. They were having debates and they were debating on creation versus evolution. And Vicki represented creation and she laid out the, you know, the case for creation. But she laid out the gospel in the midst of it. She said, hey, God created us to be with him and our sins separated us from God. And sins cannot be removed by good deeds. But paying the price for sin, Jesus died and rose again. And everyone who trusts in him alone is eternal life. And life with Jesus starts now and lasts forever.

That's actually a gospel acrostic that we train students in. And so she laid the gospel out. Well, Dan started making fun of her. The kids started making fun of her.

She began to weep. She said to my wife, Mrs. Dear, can I go in the hallway? And so she grabbed her backpack, went in the hallway. My wife thought, well, to collect herself.

Right. So she rebuked Dan and she rebuked the kids for making fun of her. She set up the next debate. My wife walked out into the hallway and she was shocked at what she saw. Vicki was on her knees with her Bible open, tears streaming down her face, interceding for Dan to come to Christ, for all her fellow students to come to Christ.

She wasn't embarrassed. She was broken for them, for them that they did not know Christ. And today, her and her husband, by the way, are missionaries. But I want to tell you that the power of proclaiming the simple gospel message.

You know, I've used this illustration and I've heard other people use it. If we had the cure to cancer and someone had cancer, we would not hesitate. You know, we would tell them out loud with words, here's the cure. We would get on the radio.

We would travel the world. We would share with strangers and friends and neighbors the good news that we had the cure to cancer. We have the cure to something infinitely worse than cancer. And our friends and our family and our neighbors and our grandkids and our kids that don't know Christ are headed somewhere infinitely worse than death.

We have to share the cure. And the cure is Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again. And if we place our faith alone in him alone, we are born again. We're saved. We're delivered from hell, the hell that we're headed to, but also the hell that we're going through, apart from Christ.

That's so good. Yeah, that is proclaiming the truth of the gospel in simple terms. Greg, talk about how that message, that simple but profound message, resonates with today's teens. I mean, you've got a whole ministry to activate teens to share. What are you seeing in teens today and what kind of impact is Dare to Share having right now? Well, we've been training teens for 33 years all around the world to share the gospel. And what I'm seeing is a generation that is waiting for a mission and a challenge. You know, we do a thing called Dare to Share Life where it's a global day of youth evangelism. We had 45,000 teens in 100 countries trained, equipped and mobilized in one day for the gospel. And I want to see that turn into 450,000, you know, 4 million. And let's raise up an army.

I think so many times we're playing so much defense. We're so worried about losing our kids. I'm like, you know what, we need to give our kids three things. Dr. Kara Powell says every teen needs three things, identity, belonging and purpose. Well, guess what you get in the gospel? Identity as a child of God, belonging with the people of God and purpose with the mission of God. So if we help our young people have their identity in Christ, their belonging with the church, the people of God, and then put them on mission, you know, like if your teen or your grandkid goes to a public school, they're a federally funded missionary, right? And if they go to a Christian school, they can rally other Christians to go out and share the gospel. We need to put our young people on mission with the best news ever. Are you finding that courage in the younger people?

I am. Yes, they're waiting for this. Everybody talks about why teenagers are leaving the church and people after they graduate from high school, they leave the church. They've left the church a lot earlier.

They've mentally checked out. They stop going when their parents make them stop going. With the exception of this, if they go to a youth group that gives them mission and a purpose, then they stay. And not only do they stay through high school, they stay after they graduate because they have a mission. And that mission is to go and make disciples of all nations.

Think of Jesus. He was a youth leader. In Matthew 17, Peter, Jesus and the disciples go on the Capernaum, but only Peter and Jesus pay the temple tax. Crossroads that with Exodus chapter 30 verse 14, the temple tax was for those 20 years old and older. So all the disciples are there, but only Peter and Jesus pay. So if I'm reading that right, Jesus was a youth leader with one adult volunteer, right?

Peter and one rotten kid named Judas and no budget. And with that youth group, he changed the world. So we need to mobilize our kids, our grandkids, our youth groups to share Christ and change the world. Stop playing defense. Start playing offense. Let's mobilize. Yeah, proactively.

I love it. The last challenge that we're going to cover is Rise. But again, people can get the book for all 21, obviously. But in that context, it's how we live for Christ and through that resurrection power that Jesus and the Holy Spirit provide us. You have a kind of fascinating analogy that many Christians use jumper cables to spark their faith. Now that I'm thinking, OK, how's Greg going to get from jumper cables to a spiritual application?

But give it to me. Well, we've seen it at camp or you go to a conference and everybody gets fired up. They put their jumper cables to the pulpit and they get pumped up. But then when they leave, they kind of lose that energy and wind down and then they need to go back again to church. Or to that next conference or to that next camp and get fired up again.

And then they lose their energy and come back. We need to realize we have the steady current of the spiritual electricity of the Holy Spirit. He dwells inside of us. And we need to learn how to plug in. So be a spirit charged super saint. Right. Instead of a jumper cable Christian.

Don't just depend on the meetings and excitement, but plug in. So in a Tesla context, be the power unit. Exactly. Not just the recipient of the power. That's it.

We'll talk in EV terms. Anyway. Hey, another incredible story that you share in the book Radical Like Jesus is very personal. And this is probably where we'll have to end. But in your own marriage.

Yeah. You and Debbie, I think you were fighting as you described it. And tell me what was going on there and how does this all apply to our very close relationship in marriage? You know, I, I married way out of my league.

You know, I was a I was a trailer kid, apartment kid. My my wife, you know, came from a very godly family. She's relational. I'm relentless. I'm very consumed.

I'm a very focused guy. And I was pastoring a church and doing dares share at the same time. So I was gone every weekend. I was gone every night doing church stuff on the way to a Bible study one night. We got into a raging argument.

This is three, four years into our marriage. And I'm like, put on happy face. We got to go in.

So we go in. Thank the Lord. I'm not leading the Bible study. The associate pastor, Pastor Green is. And he goes, you know, tonight and my wife's still upset, but she's quiet.

Right. And he's like, tonight, instead of going to the Bible study, let's go around the circle and see how we're all doing. I'm like, oh, man.

Finally gets to me. He goes, hey, Greg, how's it going? I go, you know, just pray for pray for my wife and I said, I'm gone a lot. We're trying to find that ministry life balance.

You know, I'm spending it. And it gets to my wife and my wife, again, is more of an introvert because how's it going, Debbie? She goes, not good. And everybody looks up.

They're like, what? She goes, my husband's gone every weekend. He's gone every night.

He does nothing left for me in the tank. We got in a fight on the way over. I can't take it. I can't fake it anymore.

My husband's a jerk. And like, you want to do this right now in front of God and everyone? She's like, yeah, well, let's get it on. And so we start going.

We start arguing. Everybody thinks it's a skit. They think it's some sort of skit.

It's not a skit. And Pastor Green, the associate pastor who'd been ticking me off in staff meeting anyway. He goes, you think you're all that, the president of Dare to Share, the pastor of this church.

You're nothing if you don't take care of business at home. I go, you may be right, but I'm about to kick your rear. I stand up. I charge him. Everybody in the small group is like, whoa, I love this church.

It's like the UFC. And I get right in the middle of the room and the Holy Spirit hits me. It's like I hit a wall and I fell to the ground and I knew he was right and I knew she was right. And I wept for 30 minutes straight, which led to another awkward moment because nobody... I was the pastor. Yeah, what do you do with that?

Like, do we call it a priest? What's happening here? That they all laid hands on me and prayed. I'm telling you, it was the most embarrassing, humiliating moment of my life. And it saved my marriage because there was no more hiding. And the older couples in the church took my wife and I under their wing. They discipled our marriage and poured back into us. We've been married for 34 years now. And every marriage there's a waltzes and there's a tangos. Ours is a tango. You lead, no I lead, no kiss me, no dance.

You don't know what's going to happen. But we are happily married. And it started when I was crushed in the middle of that Bible study circle. And I learned what it means to be a radical like Jesus in my own marriage. Yeah, that's amazing. It's amazing now. It was very embarrassing then. Yeah, but how refreshing to have that moment, even as embarrassing as it was.

The fruit from it is obvious. And I'd love to meet Debbie someday. She sounds like she's in the studio audience.

She's got some spark. Well, we'll get her side of the story. There you go.

It's nice that it's in a better place. You know, I've heard from people that when we talk about arguments here at Focus, people will respond and say, Christian couples should not argue. I think actually, no. There should be some arguing because we're humans. We're going to have disagreement.

And if we're not getting that out on the table, there's probably something far deeper and more sinister going on if you're just saying yes to everything and sucking it up, so to speak, and just not giving your spouse honest feedback, even if it hurts. I agree. I call it fight through to breakthrough. Fight through to breakthrough.

Fight through to breakthrough and really work it out without stuff underneath the surface. Well, how about this? Radical like Jesus. It's a marriage book, a parenting book, a salvation book.

Man, this is great. Twenty-one challenges to live a revolutionary life. Get a copy. There's challenges within each chapter. And like I said, I'm going to take this home and Gene and I are going to take a look at these challenges and read those chapters.

Something you may want to do as well. That's what Greg said he and Debbie did. And churches are also using this in their Bible studies, right? Yeah, we have churches using it in our Bible studies. Some churches are doing it church-wide. It's exciting. So that is great. Greg, thanks so much for being with us and for allowing the Lord to pin this through you, a wonderful resource.

And I can't wait till we're together next time. Thanks for the privilege, Jim and John. Well, get a copy of the book Radical Like Jesus when you donate generously to Focus on the Family today, either a monthly gift or a one-time pledge. And we'll say thanks for being a part of the support team by sending the book to you. You can donate and request the book when you call 800 the letter A and the word family.

That's 800-232-6459. Or stop by the show notes for all the details. John, let's also mention Coming Home, a great PDF download that people can access. And it really explains what it means to become a Christian, soup to nuts. And we'd love to get that in your hands.

Absolutely free, of course. We just want to encourage you to explore that relationship with Jesus, which the three of us have encountered. And as Greg said earlier, it's like bigger than the cure to cancer.

This is the cure for your eternal life. And we want you to at least get a chance to read that and think about it. Yeah, and you can access that article on our website, and the link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive and put Christ's love at the center of your relationship. Listen to Season 8 of Loving Well right now, wherever you get your podcasts.