Finding God’s Love in Marriage and Life (Part 2 of 2)

Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we'll return to an important conversation about trusting God for your life and your dreams, especially when those dreams have been delayed. It was a painful reality for me that I found myself in my early 30s, living in LA, unmarried, and really the whole dream of my life had been to be a wife and mom. Music was a tide me over until that.

And yet it had not happened yet. I'd been so public all around the world saying, you know, I've got this song, Wait For Me, about my future husband. And honestly, I think even my vocal issues that I had in large part were because when I would sing Wait For Me, it was hope deferred making the heart sick. I struggled to even breathe through that song sometimes because it was so vulnerable. What if this doesn't happen?

What if there is no guy? That's Rebecca St. James describing a painful crossroads moment in her life. And thankfully, as we heard last time, God did fulfill her dream to become a wife and a mom. And Rebecca's back with us today along with her husband Cubby to share more about their journey.

I'm John Fuller and your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly. John, we had a delightful conversation last time with Rebecca and Cubby learning about their childhood experiences and the extraordinary talent each of them showed early as musicians. Both of them were also committed to ministry. And as they shared with us, they faced some challenges along the way.

It can be difficult for Christians in the public arena and the public eye to live out their faith authentically, especially when everyone can see that your life isn't perfect and that you have struggles just like everyone else. But as you said, John, God is faithful. And that certainly was evident in the love story that Rebecca and Cubby shared with us last time. And if you miss the first part of our conversation, contact us to get an audio copy or check out the previous episode on YouTube. Or better yet, just download the Focus on the Family app so you can listen to all the content when you want.

Yeah. And Rebecca and Cubby's story can be found in the book that they wrote together called Lasting Ever, Faith, Music, Family and Being Found by True Love. And you can learn more about our guests and that book at focusonthefamily.com slash broadcast. Rebecca, welcome back once again. Cubby, great to have you here. Great to be here. Thanks for having us. And you were both committed to that concept of purity, which is great. You know, young couples that often can trip them up.

And in fact, I think you were part of True Love Whites, if I remember correctly. So, you know, that is a great goal. It's a very difficult one. You know, you're attracted, you're going to get married. And I think in the Christian context particularly, we need to stay committed to that.

Jean and I did that. But to stay committed to one another and not put one another at risk physically. And, you know, some people might even say, well, that sounds quaint, but is it possible? The answer is yes.

It just takes discipline. And it really is putting God first before you say, I do. What we talk about in the book is it's practicing faithfulness. So when you jump into marriage together, you as a Christian couple are jumping off this cliff of faith in God and each other. And I feel like when you've practiced faithfulness to each other before marriage, there's a beautiful sense of trust that is there.

Oh, you have shown me integrity and faithfulness before marriage and the trust for us. And we can only really speak for our own experience, but I feel was deeper because we had practiced that faithfulness. And in essence, I think the purity movement and I know some people unfortunately had a difficult experience with that. And maybe they were going through an experience of legalism. Maybe it was taken in their church to a certain degree that wasn't super healthy. But I think in the in the most lovely sense of it, purity is holiness, which we're called to all of us as Christians. It's not the legalistic application. It's doing it because of your love for God.

And he, I think, warns us and protects us from that. And so many, you know, again, so many couples that are in the courtship phase might say, well, we're going to get married anyway. So why wait?

And then they don't. You know, something happens and that happens to many Christian couples, too. So it's just a good thing to lay the foundation properly for your relationship, even though it's very hard. It's very difficult. But you can do it.

It's worth it. And I think one of the things, you know, whenever I would talk about purity, my goal was to always talk about grace, because I think that is also very needed. All of us make mistakes, all of us sin. We don't get it right. And we need to know that the forgiveness of God is there and that we can start anew today.

Yeah. And that's so true. And, you know, that's something, again, you know, I wobbled in high school. So I don't want to give that impression that I did it perfectly. But with Jean and I, man, we were committed to getting there and doing the right thing.

Cubby, let me ask you this, because we talked a bit yesterday about the idea of God knowing us, being known by Him. You have a skydiving example, which I thought was really good, about how you need to trust God, to trust specifically that He holds on to us. Now, that's obvious with skydiving, but what's the analogy? Yeah, it's something that we were kind of exploring in this book, just even along these lines of purity, because oftentimes when a Christian or even a non-believer hears the rules associated with Christianity, they can look at them as restraints. But like you said, they're not necessarily restraints. They're for our protection.

They're loving protection for us, for the betterment of our lives and our marriages and all those things. So in skydiving, I've had a couple of experiences doing that. My first experience was actually a solo jump, and in order to jump by yourself for the first time out of an airplane, you have to go through a pretty rigorous training session. Yeah, normally you go with a person on that first jump, but you did it the other way.

Not Cubby, not my husband. Troy, my son's done it a couple of times, but he went with somebody attached to him. Right, which I've done that as well, but I was kind of bent on wanting to get my license, and this was the first step in getting my license. So I went through this seven, eight-hour training course, and basically just walking you through the process of surviving jumping out of an airplane. That's a good instruction book. Yeah, it's a good thing to learn before you jump. But a lot of it was focused on the mechanics of the parachute and how you strap yourself in and all the buckles and straps and everything to get you basically one with that parachute. And again, those are restraints, but restraints that I would not even think about taking off when I opened that door when it came time to jumping out of that airplane. And in a similar way, God's quote-unquote restraints or kind of these ideas that he's laid out for us are there for our protection.

They're the things that help us survive the jump. And in dating, you know, it could easily be looked at as a restraint to not do what the world does, but ultimately it protected us and laid that foundation of trust. So much of a loving marriage is based on a foundation of trust, and that trust is built through faithfulness, like Rebecca said. So it's basically becoming one with the things that God has called us to, becoming one with God in the process of preparing for marriage. You know, in that context, what you're describing is wisdom. I mean, in wisdom, I think now that I'm older, much older, I mean, there is greater wisdom with life experience. And the benefit is when you're in your 20s and you have enough wisdom to make these good biblical choices. Man, it sets you up in such a blessed way, and that's what we're talking about. It's not a constraint. It's a boundary to make you healthy emotionally, spiritually, physically. And what a great way to look at that.

But that is the problem. What age do you really embrace biblical wisdom for your own benefit? Hopefully from a really young age. And I think us now as parents, this is what we're trying to speak to our kids about, like the why of it. Like when we give you boundaries or, you know, kind of rules for living that we're encouraging you to follow, it's for your good.

And God's speaking that same thing to us. Absolutely. He's a father, right? Yes, loving father. When you first got married, and one of the big themes is the winter seasons, the spring seasons, summer seasons of life, and I love that context.

There are rhythms that God puts into place that we can see in his nature, as Paul says, right? Translate that into our own lives. So you speak about that in the book, and specifically, Kabby, you were in a great place with your career. I think Foster the People, the band you were with, was going well. And Rebecca, you were excited to be that wife and mom, and it was happening. But then describe going into what you said was that winter season. It was a really rough time in our lives. So I was dealing with infertility when we kind of launched into that winter season. Secondary infertility, because we had our daughter, and I'd gotten pregnant so fast with her, and I thought, I'm in the clear.

You know, my mom had seven kids, and no miscarriages, I'm good. And then I wasn't, and I miscarried twice in that time. And then at the same time, things changed with Cup's band. There was some betrayal of friends involved there for him. He had to part ways with the band, and that wasn't a choice of his, and it felt unjust at the time.

So we were just in this time of like, how do we even get our head around the curveballs? And I was also dealing with burnout, I think, from music. You know, I still loved Jesus, believed in everything I'd said all those years, nearly 20 years of ministry. But I just was like a skeleton. I mean, I had, I just feel like emotionally, mentally, and in some ways spiritually, I was just so depleted, because I'd been, I was like an anorexic in a way, still functioning, but just no, nothing left on my bones. Yeah, spiritual, emotional, mental, all of that.

Just so, so skin and bones. And I think that time was a time of us being tested that winter season, clinging to Jesus, and just going, God, we are, help us to trust in your goodness and faithfulness, and that somehow you can resolve and redeem this really hard time in our lives. Rebecca, speak to that moment. I mean, that had to be a real challenge.

And I don't want to brush over the miscarriages. Many people listening as couples have experienced that. More than I think we even realized. Gene and I did not have that experience, but you and Dina did.

We did. And many couples do have that. So here you were saving yourself from marriage saying, Lord, I would much rather be married and have children than have this music career.

And then this happens twice. That had to be so confounding and such a low place for you. Very.

Wow. Well, my dreams of family were, you know, I'd come from a family of seven. So just having one child was in my head not an option. But then my body won't work anymore, won't do what I feel like it's built to do. Like my feminine core is desperately hurting. His masculine core is in a place of desperation and great pain. I mean, we struggled to encourage each other even authentically during that time. Like, what do you even say to each other when you're in that kind of agony? It was really, really challenging.

Cubby, I mean, for the rest of us men are husbands. Did you find a way to help Rebecca emotionally and spiritually? Or did you just hunker down and get through those early situations?

It was a little of both. I think remaining faithful to the Lord in the midst of it was key to both of us despite the challenges. And I think probably the biggest challenge for me in that season outside of the obvious was it being marked by silence. It was a silence that I had never experienced before because the Lord had been very vocal with me up until that point. Pretty much at every turning point across roads, the Lord was exponentially clear on which way I was meant to go and what I was meant to do.

And I had kind of seen this progression through my life. And then suddenly I found myself in the biggest turning point across roads of my life. And I was met with just utter silence from the Lord. I was desperately crying out, Lord, what's next? What do you want me to do? Where's the plow?

What can I put my hand to and start working again? And it was just silence. And I think that hurt more than anything, just feeling like I was alone in it. But even in the midst of the silence, I knew there was purpose in it.

And I remained committed to continuing to seek God regardless of feeling like I was not getting anything in return. And I think making that a continued foundation is what carried us through. And even though we had very little to offer each other, there was still enough to offer and enough to connect.

And Rebecca speaks about the sixth love language being curiosity. And me just continuing to try and pursue her art in the midst of that pain and connect with her was ultimately what carried us through. But it was tough. Knowing that God was working even in the midst of the heart.

Even when we couldn't see it. Well, and that's true. I mean, the loss of the band and then the loss of children and your heart's desire. But you said something. I want you to relate this to the folks that are listening that are maybe in that same spot like right now. And you can fill in the blank what the circumstances.

It may not be that you're in a band and you lose the friendship and the position with the band or you lose two children to miscarriage. But whatever that might be, you said this, that you made the decision to stick with God. There are people and I know many in that moment. That is the the fork in the road spiritually in the depths of their heart. They're saying, I, I feel like the Lord is not blessing me. And if that's the case, I'm no longer going to follow him.

I mean, that is a transaction that goes on in people's heads. But you said you chose to follow him, even though it seemed like those blessings were evaporating. Just speak to that person, both of you who is maybe going through something difficult, who doesn't feel God's closeness any longer. I think standing on the truth of scripture in those moments, even when that doesn't feel like it's resonating in those moments. Ultimately, the scripture says that God's plans for us are for good, not for harm. Even when we're walking through the not so good, knowing that his plans for us are good can get us through and continuing to believe that and choose that.

And I think the other half of it is I think a lot of people walking through hard times or a crisis of faith or whatever it might be, might have a tendency to blame God for man's shortcomings. And I think remembering that God has no desire to harm us. He has no desire to see us hurt.

He hates to see his children hurt. He grieves with us and his plans, like I said, are for our good. And so remembering that it's not God bringing on this hard situation or causing this pain in your life, but he is using the hard situation to grow you in ways that you would not grow without the challenges. I think it's really through those hard times that we grow the most, that we experience the most self-understanding, and God reveals things in us and grows things in us that literally cannot be grown during the good times.

In the winter season, and it's what is happening in actual physical winter too. And I think back to a movie when I was doing some acting in L.A., which was around the time Cub and I met. I did a film called Sarah's Choice, and it was a pro-life movie. And there was a mentor in that movie that was encouraging the male lead in the film in this one scene to, in essence, be a man and marry my character because I was the female lead, this unmarried pregnant girl.

And it was just so ironic because, you know, I'm playing this unmarried pregnant girl in this film. But he was just saying, marry her, be honorable, show this character, rise up as a man and get to the great stuff. He was saying a lot of times people give up in relationships or in marriage and they don't get to the great. Like you've got to kind of get through the fire and, you know, through some of these challenging times in your life to get to the great stuff. And that's in faith, that's in relationships, that's in just so much of life. But hold on for the great. God's got great on the other side of this winter season.

Let's move to the summer or the spring. This idea that, you know, when you stay committed to the Lord and to each other, that there is spring. I mean, I would say that pretty boldly because I think we've all experienced that.

It's not that you stay in winter forever. But for that person that is in that spot, I think what I want to make sure we communicate is hope. You know, that there is hope.

And in that regard, you begin to see things turn. You know, you did get pregnant. You did have three children now, obviously. Your career with music, your voice, you recovered from those things.

Those are all those milestones. And Cubby, you got into directing and, you know, with the movie and other things that you're doing. So there became kind of a runway for you to feel the spiritual oxygen from the Lord.

Describe it. There was a moment. So I was kind of quietly retired from music in this winter season. But I had an offer come in for an event in Alaska. And my brothers were also a part of it. So the entire small band clan was there, us with our little three-year-old daughter, Gemma.

And still in this winter season. And during worship in Alaska, I encountered the Holy Spirit in this most life-changing, most instantaneously life-changing moment of my life. And the Holy Spirit fell in just an extraordinary way in my heart. And the audience was crying.

I was crying. It was just a really profound experience with him. And I left that stage a different person. Like, I knew spring had come to my heart. I saw my past differently. I saw my future with hope. I sensed that God had called me back to music in that moment. And immediately after that spring came to my heart, I did fall pregnant with our second daughter.

And then now we have a son too. And God has restored so much. But it was almost like that internal reality had changed. My heart had encountered spring. He had done a new work here. And then I started seeing the thawing on the outside.

Yeah, that is so good. Did you talk about that together? Like, those drops of oxygen, those spiritual drops of oxygen, did you start recognizing them as a couple?

I mean, we really did. Because that week up in Alaska was pretty remarkable for both of us and definitely a turning point. And for me, it was the moment that the silence was broken that God started speaking. And there's a verse that talks about men perishing without vision. And it was almost like I was dying on the vine without knowing where to look or what to do. And suddenly God breathed this life of inspiration again. And it just filled me with purpose and passion and excitement for the future. But when that silence was broken, I really heard the word running, which initially didn't make a lot of sense. But in that winter season, I think a big part of my practical nature was rising up and just saying, I want to do something that makes sense because I'd spent so much time in the arts world.

And in the arts world, A plus B very rarely equals C. And I just wanted something that made sense. And so there was a lot of pursuing things outside of what may have been my giftings. And so when I heard this word running from the Lord, it was like, well, what does that necessarily mean? And when I sat with it and prayed through, it was very clear that God was saying, I'm running from or you are running from the thing I created you to do.

I want you to lean back into the film and the music and things like that. And with the acceptance of that word came just that inspiration and life and vision and purpose again. And peace.

And peace and an overwhelming amount of peace. And it was so fun for us to be able to basically take a step back and talk about all the work that had gone on over the course of these few days. Separately.

Yeah, separately. Like this was going on in her internally, me internally. We hadn't talked about it.

We hadn't talked about it. And it was my 40th birthday right after that Alaska event. We went to my 40th birthday and we were walking on the beach and talking about what God had been doing in both of our lives separately. It was amazing. It was a miracle.

One of the most beautiful things about that and something that I think may offer a bit of hope, I think oftentimes we look for the tangible thing to bring us out of the hard seasons. For both of us, there was no tangible evidence that we were leaving this winter season. It was literally a spring that was birthing in our hearts because of the moving of the Holy Spirit, because of the way God was speaking to us. It's not like she was pregnant. It's not like a job landed in my lap. It's not like we had this thing that we could hold, that we could count on to bring us out.

It was no. Spring was dawning in our heart because the Holy Spirit was moving and speaking. And then the physical stuff followed. There were jobs.

She did fall pregnant. But the dawn really, really began to show itself because of what was happening internally and the Holy Spirit. The goodness of God.

I'm really curious about your perspective. When we were in our early 40s, I had an opportunity and I really sought God on it. And I thought, oh, I want this.

Do you want this? Just address this matter of waiting for God. But also you have to do some things in life.

You can't just stop and wait passively. So where's the balance there? I think you're hitting on something that is so key to our culture today. And I think we have bought into this idea that feelings have to rule and that if we're not feeling it, then probably it's not right. And you just hit the nail on the head with the idea that sometimes we just have to choose the right honoring thing. Even if our feelings are going, this hurts and this is sacrificial and this is hard. Sometimes we just have to choose the marriage even when it's, you know, challenging. Sometimes we have to choose to serve our kids sacrificially even when that's hard. Sometimes we have to choose faith because we know it's the substance of things hoped for.

It's not necessarily that my life is turning out exactly perfect like I planned it or what like I thought it should be. Sometimes we just have to take the next right step that is honoring to God. But our feelings are sometimes going to be internally going, ow, this is hurting. Does it need to really hurt this much?

Is it is it wrong because I'm hurting so much? But sometimes the right thing. I mean, think of Jesus at the cross. The right, the most right thing that has ever happened in history that changed the entire landscape of the world and history was the hardest thing Jesus ever had to do.

But it was the most right thing. That's a profound comment from Rebecca St. James, who, along with her husband Cubby Fink, have been our guest these past two days. And we certainly recommend you get a copy of their book, Lasting Ever, Faith, Music, Family and Being Found by True Love. It's a good read and very encouraging about what it means to live by faith and trust God, even when your circumstances don't seem to be working out the way you plan them to go. And I think you'll find it very helpful for your faith journey. And we can send you a copy when you make a monthly pledge of any amount to focus on the family today. And we really need ongoing support from people like you who want to help equip Christian marriages and families to be a strong witness for Christ in today's culture. A monthly pledge is a great way for you to partner with us in ministry, providing the fuel that we need to build a biblical foundation for families and single adults to live on. Yeah, we're looking forward to you sharing whatever you can with us, either a monthly pledge or a one-time contribution.

Every little bit helps. So please call today, 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459. Or you can donate and get a copy of the book, Lasting Ever, when you click on the link in the show notes. We also have information for you online about our Loving Well podcast series. It's just in time for Valentine's Day. New season eight has episodes to provide you with heartwarming love stories and practical help for your marriage. Check it out. It's the Loving Well podcast hosted by marriage experts and colleagues, Greg and Aaron Smalley. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Visit us online at smalley.com.