Never Stop Looking Up in Your Marriage (Part 2 of 2)

For more than 25 years Monica suffered from an addiction to drugs and alcohol, fueled in part by her painful and shameful past. The thought would come to my mind that I had had these abortions.

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Call 800-AFAMILY or visit FocusOnTheFamily.com slash gift. And it's so funny when you first get married, you run hard. You go hard at it. You know, you're like, I'm all in.

I want to do this. We're going to be great. And then our spouse lets us down or drops us and they disappoint us. And suddenly we stop running quite as hard.

And we're afraid that we'll be dropped. And pretty soon you don't have either one running toward each other. That's Ann Wilson describing a really common challenge that many husbands and wives face in the early years of marriage. Now, fortunately, couples can learn how to turn back toward each other again and again. Ann and her husband Dave are back with us to share more of their rather remarkable marriage story and what they've learned along the way.

Thanks for joining us for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller. John, I'm sure when your girls were little, you read some of those princess stories to them, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, all the time.

Over and over again. Having two boys, I never read those stories. I don't think my boys... It's not too late. Should I bring one back?

No, I'm not doing it. But it is special, you know, what happens there with your little girls. And, you know, they begin to think at some age, I'm sure, about what it will be like to be married to Prince Charming and how much that husband in the future is going to deliver these incredible delights in marriage. And then you get married and maybe you get some of that, but then marriage isn't all that. And you might be living in that place right now where maybe you don't like your spouse. Maybe it's feeling like it's all done.

The magic is gone. Today's program is for you because you know what? It's not about being happy all the time. It's about committing yourself to the Lord vertically so that you can have the relationship with your spouse horizontally. And I think Solomon talks about it in Ecclesiastes 3, that God has set eternity in our hearts. And what's amazing about the Christian life is that we know we will ultimately get that fulfilled, joyful life in the next life to come. And that's what we're aiming for.

We can have much of it now in a relationship with Christ, but it won't be perfect in this life. And like most of us, our guests today, David and Wilson, have a marriage that wouldn't make a very good fairy tale. Well, I think it might, actually, because of that brokenness in their story. If you didn't hear it last time, get the download. Call us. We'll get it to you.

But they had some amazing brokenness, which proves God's redemption story in their lives. Yeah, the Wilson's co-host, Family Life Today, a radio program and podcast from Family Life Ministries. They're writers and speakers, and they've got a book called Vertical Marriage, the one secret that will change your marriage. Learn more about our guests and this resource.

We've got the details in the show notes. Dave and Ann, welcome back to Focus. Thank you. Glad to be here. And I was so energized about our conversation last time, because you touched on so many tender areas. And I so appreciate that openness and that vulnerability. I want to pick it up today, where you had another wake-up call on your 10th anniversary.

What happened? This is where the book came out of. I mean, it was a night where, when it happened, I thought, nobody will ever hear the story. It's a dark, dark moment in our marriage.

It's going to be a secret. Because if you had asked me a minute before that date, I'm taking my wife out on a 10-year anniversary, and I'm pulling out all the stops. Trust me, romance, nice restaurant. You did all the right things.

Oh, everything. And if you had asked me, okay, Dave, what's your marriage on a scale of 1 to 10? I honestly would have said, we're a 10. Probably, if not a 10, it's a 9.8, and I guarantee you, Ann, would agree, right?

Yeah. And I would have said, it's a 1, maybe a.5, which I was mad that Dave didn't even know how bad we were doing. But I was about to find out. We went out on this 10-year date, and, you know, I'm Mr. Romance. I give the waiter, Ann didn't know this, I slip him 10 roses, and I tell him, listen, when I give you a look, bring one rose at a time. So I look over, he lays the first rose down, and we talk about year one. And that was great, and I look at him, and he puts another rose, we talk about year two. So we did that for 10 roses. Wow. And most women right now are going, oh, my. I know.

I'm scoring, baby. If only Bob. If only Mark. John or Jim.

No, I wasn't going to use our names. And I do that every day, don't I? Yeah. But you're sitting there, Ann, thinking what? I thought, whoa, this is amazing. What a spectacular night.

He's gone all out. I was so impressed, but it had not been great prior to that night. Of course, we didn't talk about that in those 10 roses. It was nothing but good, and it really was sweet memories of 10 years. We had two little boys, little boys at home. And then as we're driving home, I had one more surprise that I had sort of conjured up, and that was the pull into the parking lot of the middle school that we had just contracted to start our church in this little cafeteria in this middle school.

We were about to start in three or four months, Ann didn't know we had just signed a deal to do this, so I thought, we're going to pull in the parking lot, midnight, nobody will be there, we'll pray that God will do a miracle and turn this school into a church and it will grow. And then I thought it would be fun just to go parking. You guys know what I mean by parking? A little making out. I think I do.

And he was all about the parking part. That's a good blend of spiritual and natural, but which was more important to you? Ask my wife. She knows. I'm not sure we prayed. I don't even know if we did pray.

You are a very vulnerable person. I must give you credit for that. But Ann, what are you thinking at this point? Well, I really did think, like, this is an amazing night.

However, we had not been doing well at all. And I felt like, Dave, I thought you were aware of that at the time, like, oh, he's really making up for all this because he was gone so much. And I look back thinking, how could I be so naive? But I should have seen all the signs. They were there fighting, yelling, I'm going to meeting after meeting, I'm leaving her to raise the kids and put the kids to bed. But I'm compartmentalized.

I'm like, that's a whole other thing. We're doing great. She loves me. We talked tonight, all this. So I actually think this night's going to end with us making out in a Honda Accord, which is a bad plan from the start. But I turned to kiss her that night and she turns her head. And I honestly was so naive, I thought she didn't know I was trying to kiss her.

There's no way she doesn't want to kiss me. So I try again. Because I am Mr. Marvelous. Exactly. Am I helping you there, Anne?

Yes, thank you. That's what I thought. Oh, so he goes to kiss me and he says, is something wrong? And I didn't want to bring it up that night.

Just because I thought he really is trying so hard right now and I don't want to bring it up. This isn't the time or place. But he kept pressing me. And so finally I said, yes, there is something wrong. I've lost all my feelings for you.

I have nothing left. Yeah, that was boom. And he was shocked, especially because he thought we were 10. Right. I can still hear her saying those six words.

Chapter one of the book, six words that changed everything. Because I was shocked. I mean, I honestly didn't know. So I just looked at her like, what do you mean you've lost your feelings for me? And I knew enough at 10 years of marriage that you listen. And so she started to share.

And this is where it got miraculous as Ann started to share what those words meant. I heard the voice of God. And not an audible voice.

Just the Holy Spirit who lives in me. Can he speak? Yes. And he sort of didn't nudge me. He shoved. It was two words. Shut up. Wow. It just was an outside-in thought.

Yeah. It was just a vertical enter into this car. It was like shut up, which meant just listen. Don't interrupt. This pattern would have been to interrupt her, defend, prove her wrong.

That's what we did when we fought. Again, I didn't know that then. And so when God said shut up, I didn't say a word.

I just leaned over and listened. Which I was surprised by that. Because I thought, and this was the pattern. A lot of people in marriages have patterns that they go into. I would say that to Dave, like I feel like you're never home. You're not here to put the boys to bed.

You're just all alone and you're not invested in us. And he would get mad and defensive and prove to me that I was wrong. And so I was expecting that to go to the same place that evening.

But he was quiet and he just listened. And so I said, I started out so angry that you weren't here with me. And then my anger turned to bitterness and then my bitterness turned to resentment. And now I don't have anything. I don't even have hope that we're going to make it. I'm not saying I'm leaving you, but I'm saying we're just totally isolated.

And I have nothing left. Well, and I wanted to ask that question because you had to be thinking the D-word at some point. You know, should we get divorced? For the benefit of the listener, how close were you to entertaining those thoughts?

I don't think that... I wasn't making any move, but I did feel a sense of hopelessness that it wouldn't get any better. And I just thought, this is us. You know, Anne, and specifically this is for you.

When you're the spouse that feels like you're the only one in the game, you're the only one trying, what advice do you have to keep going your left foot in front of your right foot emotionally? And then, Dave, I'll come back to you. But even after that night, what made you get up in the next day and say, okay, he's trying a little? I think it is what ended up happening. My response was a result of what Dave did next, which was crazy.

Yeah, this had never happened. But I heard God say one more word. And again, I didn't hear an audible voice, but a very strong impression from the Holy Spirit living in me. And it was one word, repent. And I heard it three times. So it was really interesting because I'm listening to Anne, sort of this horizontal human relationship, marriage relationship, and yet this vertical connection with God is very strong.

And here's the thing. I'm a preacher. I'd preach repent. I know what it means.

I know the Greek and the turn and go the different direction and change your life. But I knew, and so God, so intimate. In one word, I knew exactly what God meant for Dave Wilson.

Right. Repent meant I'm lukewarm, and I was. I was your pastor, speaker, going to the word of God to get a sermon, not to be intimately in love with my Savior, which I had done for decades, you know, sitting with him daily. I wasn't having a daily devotional quiet time. I had done that.

I was just too busy running from here. So when I heard repent, it was like, you're lukewarm. And I remember this thought in the car. I grew up in a church where I thought a lot of people were lukewarm. And I remember thinking, I'll never be that.

I'll never be that. And here I was face to face with, you're just distant from me. Your prayers right now are help me prayers. Help me preach.

Give me a message. Help me. And so in one word, I knew all of this, which is crazy. This horizontal marriage is never going to work until I'm number one, until you go vertical first.

I knew all that in one word. So I'm listening to Ann, and yet I know the answer is not going to be found horizontally. We do need to talk. We do need to work this out. I do need to hear her heart.

But I also knew this is never going to work until I go vertical. And so as Ann finished, I just said to her, I said, I need to do something right now. You don't need to do this. I need to do this. And I need to do it now. And I felt at the moment I needed to be in a posture of full submission. And I don't pray all the time on my knees, but I wanted to be on my knees.

And to this day, I don't know how I did it in the front seat of a Honda Accord, but I got on my knees. This is some kind of night. Yeah, this is some kind of night. It's not going anywhere I thought it would go. It's going to a much better place, actually.

Yeah, interesting. And so I just got on my knees, and I pushed the driver's seat back, and I just turned around, and I just prayed out loud just for me. And I said, Lord, I repent. I'm lukewarm. You're not number one.

I know what you say about hot and cold and lukewarm. And I'm that guy, and I don't want to be that guy. You need to be number one in my life where you've always been and you aren't right now. I'm number one.

My career is number one. Make me the husband, the dad I need to be. God changed me to be the man she deserves.

Amen. And I thought, okay, now we can talk. And I turn, and she's on her knees on the other side of the car. And that's what you asked me previously, and that's what I was going to say, is that when Dave started praying, first of all, Proverbs says a gentle answer turns away wrath. And so when he was gentle in his response, my defenses automatically came down. And when Dave started to pray this prayer, I instantly was convicted. And the conviction was I felt like God was saying, Ann, you've had your eyes so much on Dave that you've taken them off of me. And I felt like he was saying, I never equipped Dave or made Dave to meet all of your needs.

That's my job. And you have been looking to him to meet all of your needs, and you need to come back to me and put your eyes and your focus and your life in my hands and quit trying to find your happiness only from him. Because I really thought if he would just get his act together, we could be great. And I had my list.

If he would start doing this or that, we would be great. And God's saying, you have no control of your husband. Your job is not to control him. Your job is to seek me first. And so that's what put me on my knees in the car. And I said, Lord, I've made Dave Wilson and my marriage an idol.

I've put it in front of you wanting that to make me happy. That's your job, God. And so I repent, and I offer my whole life and my marriage and all that I am to you. And here I am. And take us.

We can't do this apart from you. Wow. I mean, this is such a picture of what is right and good, what the Lord wants in marriage.

And it's this amazing night that you had. And it would be nice to guarantee that both spouses would do that. Yeah. But there's not. And I think that was the key point here because we have counselors here focus on the family. You, the listener, might be right there. You're going, this is our marriage. My guess is that a majority of Christian marriages are right here.

I think it's normal for all of us to suffer a bit in this area because we get moving and life's demands appear. And we neglect each other, and we neglect that relationship with Christ, just like you so beautifully have illustrated. And I'm telling you, if you need this kind of help and resources, we're here for you. That's why supporters support this ministry. So if you're in that spot, don't hesitate.

Get help. Your marriage is meant to reflect God. And sometimes it's broken.

That's okay. God knows that. He also knows that he can repair it, just like he's done with Dave and Ann. Yeah, and we urge you to contact us.

Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459. And when you get in touch, ask about the Wilson's book that we've been hearing about these past couple of days. The title is Vertical Marriage, the one secret that will change your marriage.

And you can learn more in the show notes. Dave, again, this is so good. And Ann, your response to it, your willingness to hear the Holy Spirit in your own heart.

Because I think a lot of times, and I think wives particularly, there's a righteous anger that you can get. And it is all him. And if he would just do better, we would be better. And Lord, isn't that true?

Yes, and that is true. Let's work on Dave together. Beautiful night.

Beautiful 10th year anniversary, although it was a disaster. I'm not even going to ask the most obvious question. No, it didn't happen. But let me go to another soft and tender area. And Dave, again, so many men will relate with this. You were battling with anger. I mean, that's been part of your story. I believe your dad walked out at a young age.

Yeah, I was seven years old. I mean, so I can relate to that. I had an alcoholic father who left when I was five. So you end up, you know, you're wandering as a little boy thinking, what does it mean to be a man?

And unless you have good mentors, which thankfully I had a couple, football coaches, et cetera, that could help straighten my life out a bit. But anger does reside in the hearts of many boys and young men. What was your battle there? You know, it's interesting, again, I'm so clueless to what's going on.

Thank you. I mean, I can't believe now looking back, but it all came to a head in the kitchen when I blew up at something Ann said, I can't even tell you what it was. And I'll never forget her response, though, was she just flipped her hand like this, like, there you go again.

I'm never bringing anything up. That's what you do every time. And she turned.

And this sounds crazy. I literally go, what are you talking about? I do not. And she's like, exhibit A, you know, like there it is. Look in the mirror, right? And it was one of those moments where I went upstairs. And again, I have little boys at the time and I go into my little office.

I had a bedroom and I had an office up there. And I just sat down and I said, OK, God, am I really like an angry guy? And I felt like he's like, yeah. So long story short, and I tried to capture it in the book, is I did a study on anger. I preached on anger. And it wasn't for the congregation.

It was for me. I was like, where's this come from? What's going on? I remember when I did this series months later, I literally tied an extension cord around my waist and had it dragging around the stage. And that was one of my big learnings is anger is plugged into something. It comes from somewhere. And for me, that was a new thought.

I was like, duh, now, but it's like, yeah. And so I didn't even know there's three types of anger and there's all kinds. But, you know, there's anger that's OK. It isn't out of control. It's sort of related to a specific situation.

And I had some of that, but I had the other two that were really bad. I'd never heard these terms. Displaced anger. What's displaced anger? It's anger you have in this situation that's displaced from another situation.

And I remember reading and studying. It's like, how do you know if you have that? Well, you can do this on a scale of one to 10. Should you be angry right now? Yeah, probably a three. You're a nine. Why are you a nine when you should be a three?

Oh, you've got to trace that extension cord back and say, OK, what is this plugged into? And I often found that there's displaced anger. You hear, you know, he comes home and he kicks the dog. He's not mad at the dog. Right.

So mad at him when it worked. And road rage is displaced anger. Something's going on in your life you haven't processed.

Wow. And I didn't even know that anger was a second emotion. You know, that I was really good at anger, really bad at hurt. I don't come home and cry. I go angry. And so those learnings. And then I had this third one.

This was big for me. Chronic anger is like displaced, that it comes from somewhere else. But it isn't like something happened this morning or this week.

It's buried five years ago, 10 years ago. Well, Jim, you know. Yeah. I didn't know till that moment. Oh, my gosh, I've got chronic anger. And a chronically angry person, it can snap any moment.

It's like zero to 10, boom. And everybody's like, what just happened? Right. That was me.

That was what Ann was trying to say that day. Like, every time I bring something up, that's what you do. And I'm like, no, I don't.

Yeah, I do. And so I had to trace that one back. And it's a long story, but I realized I had never forgiven my dad. Yeah. I was still angry.

I'm 33 years old. And I'm still having consequences in my marriage today, even as a dad. Buried decades ago. And I had to go on a journey. I talk about it in the book of forgiving my dad, which was impossible to do without God's power. And God took me on this journey, and I can sit here today and say, I'm free.

And it's such a beautiful story. But you've got to be in touch with those things. You've got to begin to ask the right questions.

Why am I reacting this way? Some people might call that a trigger, right? Right. When your spouse says something, boom, you go to 10. All of a sudden, you're attacking.

And it's healthy to take a look at that. But let me get a little more into the tools that help a marriage do better. In the book, you talk about divert, withdraw, abandon.

Describe those terms. You know, that was something that changed my life. I heard Rick Warren say this years ago. I mean, decades ago.

Before he hit it big. Before he was purpose-driven life Rick Warren. And he was talking about your spiritual walk, and he just used these phrases.

I'm a guy that likes alliteration and phrases. I'm a preacher. And he said, divert daily, withdraw weekly, abandon annually. And it's really just a daily rhythm, a weekly rhythm, and an annual rhythm. And he was talking about, okay, if you're going to walk with God every day, you divert from your schedule. Your schedule's packed. Yeah, don't be so type A you're locked in.

Yeah. Carve out 15 minutes, 30 minutes, five minutes, whatever. We know it as a devotional quiet time, whatever. He's saying, do that.

You've got to cultivate that discipline and rhythm. Here's what we did in the book, because I thought it was interesting. Those same things are true vertically, but they're also true for your marriage relationship. It's like every day you need some time to talk to your spouse as well.

So turn off the TV and talk. And that's what happened out of our 10-year anniversary story, is we had this great homecoming with God, but then we were living out the now what questions, like how do we go from here. And my feelings did not come back automatically. It took some time to develop those and to go through that.

So we kind of put these things into practice. Like we need to catch up every day just for a few minutes of saying even this question, how are you doing? Which I didn't want to ask.

I didn't want to hear that answer. You're shy of that, right? But there was a rhythm that we started to talk.

And then the withdrawal weekly is simply the Sabbath principle. You need to rest spiritually, but you need to date. As a couple, you need to date. Spend time together. Yeah.

And so we decided we've got to intentionally put this in account. It doesn't have to be a Friday night, a lot of money. It can be a lunch.

It can be a breakfast. But once a week, spend a couple hours, and that's where we really sort of dove into, so how are we doing? How are we doing in our marriage relationship?

And even just, I know that in a marriage, it's easy to stop pursuing one another. And so for even, I told Dave, just ask me, Ann, how are you? And so Dave's so funny. He's writing it down like, okay, I'll ask you, how are you? I can't believe I wrote it down, but I was like, that's how clueless I was. And I really think what happened to me and us is I got lazy.

Me too. You know, it was like, it's almost like you lose your first love. And it's interesting, I just preached on this. You go to that passage in Revelation 2 where he says, I commend you for these great things, but you've lost your first love.

And what's he telling him to do? Repent. Heard that word before. And do the things you did at first. And I realized, man, when we were dating, when we were newlyweds, ah, pursue, pursue, pursue.

And then you get lazy. And how do you get that back? A lot of couples think, well, I got to get that feeling back.

I don't know. Do the things you did at first. What did we do? We talked every day. We dated. We forgave. We had fun too.

Married couples stop having fun and doing fun things together. And so I honestly had to go after my marriage like I do anything else. Like, do I want this?

Let's go. If I want a new body, I get up, I work out. So it's daily, weekly. It's so true. It's once a year, a retreat, a porn into ourselves as well. And you know, I am hopeful that we're all hearing this. I mean, the couples that are listening, maybe your husband's not with you. Maybe your wife is not with you and you need to sit down and listen to this together.

And I hope you do either listen to the podcast or get the CD from us, what have you. But I want to ask you, Ann, because I think you've got the answer here. Um, that woman that feels like there's no way, this sounds great, but you know, Dave had some major epiphanies that I'm not seeing in my man. What about that sense of hopelessness? If we go back to that moment and Dave had not turned around in the Honda Accord, that's a great word picture. And he had not prayed that night.

He would have looked dumbfounded at you. Like, what do you mean? We're a 0.5.

We're a one. Um, and it went darker and you drove home in silence and you got to the house and turned your back to each other in bed and you didn't talk. You got up and continued the routine. Speak to that wife who's experiencing that.

Yeah. I would say don't give up on Jesus. I think it's, and don't give up on what God can do in your marriage. Cause I think I was at that point of feeling hopeless, like God, even you can't do this. You can't even resurrect this. But the fact that Jesus was resurrected from the dead, God resurrects dead things.

And so I would say this, I wish I would have done this sooner. Keep your eyes on him and on you. Him being? God. Yeah.

Not your spouse. Yeah. That's what we do. Yeah. That's what I was doing. I was looking at Dave's flaws instead of looking at God's greatness. And I know some of them are going to say, I've tried that. I've done that.

Things aren't changing. I would say keep pursuing God. And I love what one preacher said this and I thought, Oh gosh, I wish I'd have heard this. He said, your spouse should know and understand how much God loves them by the way you treat them. Wow. That was so convicting to me. Like if your spouse doesn't even know God or acknowledge God or even want to have anything to do with God, the way you treat them and love them is an act of worship to God when they don't deserve it.

Well, that's true. What a powerful statement by Ann Wilson. The way we treat our spouse and love them, even when they don't deserve it is an act of worship to God. Well, we're so thankful for Dave and Ann Wilson and the insights they've shared with us today from their book, Vertical Marriage, the one secret that will change your marriage. We'll gladly send a copy of that book to you when you make a gift of any amount to focus on the family. That's our way of saying thank you for partnering with us to strengthen and encourage marriages today through your gift of any amount. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family.

That's 800-232-6459. Or donate and get the book by checking the show notes. Coming up tomorrow, a fascinating conversation with a homicide detective about how crime scenes can actually teach us important lessons about life and faith. Thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. to a child or fostering family that needs your help. Learn more at WaitNoMore.org