Getting on the Same Page Financially in Marriage

I realized that money was in fact in control of my life and I wept privately for the realization that I really was serving money and in love with money, not God. Well that's Chuck Bentley reflecting about the mindset he once had about money and possessions and if you're struggling with finances in your marriage, stay tuned.

We have an encouraging program for you today. This is Focus on the Family with your host Focus President and author Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller. John, we hear from so many married couples who struggle in this area of financial difficulty. I mean it's in the top three depending upon the survey you look at but financial problems are right there at the top and for whatever reason many husbands and wives aren't on the same page financially. You know so often we talk about our differences and how you're extrovert and you marry an introvert etc.

Those are general principles. I know that some people, some couples don't hold true to that and I acknowledge that but it's true with finances too. You usually have a spender and a saver and that creates great conflict especially when money's tight in the early years of marriage but it can take literally years to resolve that and to do better in that area. There are some simple things you can do to get on a better pathway and the earlier in your marriage that you do it the better off you're going to be for obvious reasons.

You'll have more peace in your home and we're going to explore those things with our guests today. Yeah Chuck and Ann Bentley have been married for over 40 years and they say it has taken them a long long time to work out their money and relational issues and they're very candid about their story. Chuck is the CEO of Crown Financial Ministries and has counseled thousands of couples about finances and together with Ann he's written this book Money Problems Marriage Solutions Seven Keys to Aligning Your Finances and Uniting Your Hearts and we have copies of that here at the ministry.

The links are in the episode notes. Chuck and Ann welcome to Focus on the Family. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Thank you too. It's good to have both of you. This is that common topic. I mean we do cover this from time to time regularly because it is one of the core problems that crop up in marriage. Describe for us if you will I mean the early years for you kind of paint the picture for the viewers the listeners about where the Bentleys were at early on and what were some of those issues that propped up in your marriage about finances.

Well they say out of your misery comes your ministry so I would say misery describes sort of where we were. We loved each other. We met and married very quickly. I ask Ann to marry me after six weeks of knowing her. Hang on a second Ann is that true?

Yes it is. What does your mom and dad think of that? Well I didn't really ask. We were still in college. I knew better than to ask. Right I'm sure.

Was that a shock for you though? I mean I'm sure you were in love and moving that direction but six weeks is a pretty quick moment to go okay do you want to make this permanent? We were yeah we were in agreement.

That's good that's good. But we didn't know each other Jim and we knew we loved each other and that's always held true. We've always loved each other but as you know opposites attract and then after they get married they attack and you know so I was difficult to live with and when it came to money I had a very stubborn view of it. So I treated Ann like I was the right opposite and she was the wrong opposite like we're totally different but my view was if she would just be more like me then we would get along.

You're classic. And I treated her that way for many many years I mean I expected her to become like me and so she lived under that sort of oppressive view of who she was and I don't think it allowed her to flourish it didn't allow her to contribute to the financial difficulties we were having. I was causing them she was trying to solve them but I didn't give her the space to do that. Well that's important describe for us your if I could say it this way your financial personality that might help us better understand you as a couple. So Ann what was your approach to money?

I grew up in a home with school teachers so we were savers and I never knew that we didn't have much growing up you know I was born in the 50s so. But money was tight. But I didn't know it Jim we just lived very frugally totally different from Chuck's upbringing and it didn't dawn on us until later in our marriage how differently we had been raised and why that had affected how we viewed money.

Well what was yours Chuck? Well she's the classic saver and I'm the classic spender I'm the big spender in the family I like to spend money I have big dreams big goals big ideas if it's got four wheel drive camouflage or any of those kind of things and I would want to buy it and I'm a risk taker I grew up in the oil and gas business that's my family background so when Ann and I married I was ready to take a lot of risks and she was always driving with her foot on the brake so it immediately caused conflict I really didn't even know how to save it wasn't in my world view that we needed to save money for the future it was we needed to invest and take a lot of risk. But this conflict went on for quite some time right? Years. I mean like a decade?

No two decades. Okay no and I think that you know there's a realism in that I appreciate that being the case because these aren't things that you can kind of unwrap easily and then put back together and during this time I mean twenty years of being married to a spender when the dollars weren't necessarily there how did you how did you approach things I mean how did you go to Chuck and say honey we got a problem? Well I was raised in a church going home but I was biblically illiterate and by the grace of God some women invited me to a Bible study and it's where I first started learning what God said. How many years have you been married at this time? Oh goodness I think I was thirty when I started it was in a Bible study at that point we had baby number two we'd been married nine years. Okay so nine years in which you know you should have some maturing signals there but here you are in this Bible study and what happened? And then it wasn't immediately but several years later an older woman said and she didn't even know that I was going through anything she was talking to a group of us and just said you know it's not wise to nag your husbands she said it's always better to just pray first go to God with it ask him to work it out. So that moment I mean that woman said that and then you thought about that how did it change your behavior? I start praying I just took it to the Lord. We went through a lot of financial pain Jim I went on the course that I thought was best for us and so I would make investments or decisions that didn't work out and we would live on the financial edge and it was it made Ann feel very insecure and looking back I see why she was trying to get my attention but I was just too stubborn to listen I think I had that mindset of I need to have the answers and I don't need to ask anybody for help. So I was insular I was trying to figure everything out myself I wasn't listening to her and unbeknownst to me she had just sort of given up and she was praying for me that God would get my attention and what's interesting Jim is even though we had a lot of financial pain I would just double down. You know some people go through financial pain and they say okay I'm not going to do that again I would just sort of keep that. Well that's your risk taker attitude yeah I'll get it all back.

I'll get it all back. Well your solution was to just make more money. Yeah my always I mean my was driven by more and more would solve the problem and quite frankly I really thought it would. I thought the more successful I became the happier Ann would become and little did I know the more successful I became the unhappier she became and I didn't know how to solve that problem. Let me ask you in that regard that's really interesting because I think most men would have that sense that equation how did that revelation then come to you that that was not working your formula was not her heart's ache. I'll tell you a story Jim that really made it so apparent to me we went out for our wedding anniversary I think it was around 20-21 years and we went to our favorite spot our favorite restaurant and we're having a great celebration of our marriage and one of my clients walked into the restaurant and out of the corner of my eye I saw him standing over there and I looked at Ann and said excuse me and I went over and started talking to my client and I was super excited that we were you know going to do a deal soon and when I came back I didn't realize it had been 15 minutes and Ann was crying in the booth and I didn't know why she was crying. Let me guess it was your anniversary. It was our anniversary and I had put the deal and the more and the and I was telling her how excited I was and I really did not know why she was upset but I had put all of that above her.

It's a perfect expression Chuck of exactly a guy's attitude right? I'm doing what this should make you happy Ann. Sure. Bringing home more bacon but what did you want that night? What did you want to hear?

I just wanted time with him. Yeah and I didn't see that and so that was the sort of exhibit A of where we were. Was that about the time then you went to the crown financial I mean how did that what was it that you went to and when did that occur and what was the timeline? Well think about this Ann had been praying for me 10-11 years. Wow.

And this crown class is announced in our church bulletin. Hold on can we back up? And she tricked me into it. Can we back up? This is always dangerous the wife says let's back up. I need to back up because Chuck came home one evening and said Ann I want you to pick out our new house I'm going to pick out the cars.

He was in a business that he assumed you know that he was going to make a lot of money within the next year. That was my red flag. We had a major issue and so when I saw that our church was offering this crown course I thought we need it now. So you called the leader.

Wow. And well first she asked me if I would go and I said I'm too busy. And so she's trying to get me to go and so I just said OK if they have it on Sunday night that's the only time I have available. And I thought that would be sort of the compromise where she you know would think I'm trying but it's never going to happen. So I called the man who was organizing these classes and he said Ann I'm sorry I only have one class available it's on a Sunday night. And here's the catch anyone who agrees to attend will lead another group. I said oh of course we'll do it. So there was no way I was asking Chuck because I knew what he'd say.

Yeah it would be a big no. Right. Yeah. And so here I am. I'm going to a class.

I don't know that she's pre agreed that I will lead one after we get through it. And I was totally obstinate. I was arrogant.

I wasn't interested. I thought I knew Jim. I thought I knew what the Bible said about money. I grew up in church and we started opening the word looking at the scripture. And by week six of that Bible study I repented of my idolatry of money. I realized that money was in fact in control of my life. And Ann had not been able to help me see that but God did. And the Holy Spirit convicted me as if I had committed the most heinous of sin against the Lord. And I wept privately for the realization that I really was serving money and in love with money not God. And that's what changed everything. Chuck I want to pick up on that because that's a profound moment and we need to understand that I'm sure there are men and women that are listening who maybe they came to that precipice but they didn't spiritually crossover. You know they didn't feel that conviction quite the same way. How did you find that humility in that moment to say kind of like King David I am that man.

I am that man. You know Jim I've never met anybody else that I've known in my life in all these years of doing what I do that have repented of idolatry of money. It was something unique to me and something I didn't know was happening. And Ann didn't know how to describe it but she sensed that was my problem. And it took the Lord to reveal to me that that's really what was going on. My heart belonged to money. And Ann wondered why I wasn't the spiritual leader of the home was because I was worshipping money.

I did my devotion with the Wall Street Journal. That's how I lived. And once the scales fell from my eyes I just immediately saw that we had to start over from the inside out.

It wasn't the money that would solve our financial problems. We had to solve them as a couple together. And so we started just rebuilding from the very very basics of our marriage. After 20 years of marriage it started fresh.

And we were just talking this morning before we came here. It's been a miracle. God did a complete transformational miracle. And I would say apart from my original salvation repenting of the love of money has been the most transformative thing that's ever happened to me. Yeah. And that transformation. I mean you prayed for nine ten years for that moment to occur.

It has to be a little surreal. Is this really happening. Is he really making that change.

Is he. You know are we going to move in a better direction. Something that you know in your heart you were hoping for. How did that feel to hear Chuck talk about his sin in that way after you'd been praying for him for so long. I mean were you hesitant or were you embracing or were you both. I was just grateful because I saw the faithfulness of God at that time.

Yeah. It was an emotional time for both of us. And we were surrounded with people who were praying for us at the same time in that crown group.

I mean he got on his knees in the group and wept. So you know it took time. There were big changes. I think I was pregnant with the number four at the time for boys. I was emotional anyway. Well I just I so appreciate that honesty because I can imagine it came with a bundle of good and bad thinking OK is this really going to be a change or is it going to be a few days and then back to normal. And I'm sure at times it's a roller coaster ride because those are what Jim I think for me it was all good. That's good to hear it was all good.

Yeah. You know Jim I'm reliving that moment because not only did I repent before the Lord but I needed to repent before and for treating her the way I did. And I began to accept her.

I realized she had been right and I'd been wrong. And I grew to so deeply appreciate her willingness to persevere through my arrogance my stubbornness my demanding my way and sort of living on the edge. And I it's like I looked at her one day and I thought oh my goodness you're exactly what God knew I needed.

I needed you to be complete. And she had just persevered long enough till I realized what a wonderful beautiful godly asset that she was as my wife. And that's why we wrote this about marriage because we were just really operating on half of the horsepower of our relationship because she was excluded from helping man. And once we came together everything changed dramatically. Our intimacy our ability to get along our financials change.

I mean we you know we weren't in financial trouble but in a sense we were because we were I was so far off of God's path that I was going in the wrong direction. And that and that's what brought us back together as a couple. There's so many elements here the stubbornness of man's heart. And what I appreciate about what you're expressing there has to come a breaking point. And that's what intrigues me about your story your ability to zero in through your idolatry through your pride.

God gave you that ability to see what was true and you realize it and you go wow that is my heart. Let's move to the practical help. You had seven keys to uniting in marriage and we're not going to be able to cover them all in a few minutes here but let's start that and then encourage people to get the book which is great. It's a quick read money problems marriage solutions seven keys to aligning your finances and uniting your hearts.

I mean that's pretty bold proposition but let's get into it. The first was peacemaker. I think that I was avoiding peacemaking and we realized that as long as we stayed in conflict we would never make progress.

And so we came up with some ways to practically put that into action. I tell people if one of you is a peacemaker you'll survive your marriage but if both of you are peacemakers you'll start to thrive. And so we came up with the first to apologize is the bravest first to forgive is the strongest and the first to forget is the happiest. And so we sort of had this little thing going of who would apologize first because you know it's so interesting how hard it is to apologize when you've offended each other. So even today when to apologize I have to go away and think about it before I want to apologize. It doesn't come naturally. Well and you want to make sure it's true.

I could tell that you and Jean have very similar hearts. You want to make sure if you apologize it's coming from the core of my being. It's not superficial. So the baseline is we started to make peace with each other so we could attack the problem. Secondly I had to go through a redefinition of prosperity. This is the second financial priority. The second priority because what had happened to me is prosperity was how much was in the bank account and it was all external. The next bonus, the next investment, everything that I considered prosperity was wrong. Ann's definition was in the home. And so we went to Jeremiah 29 and looked at this when you get to the famous verse, verse 11 you know that everybody says you know they want to claim as I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord plans to prosper you not to harm you and plans to give you hope in the future.

Well it says before that here's how you do that. You build a house, settle down, plant a garden, eat from your own garden, marry and have sons and daughters. And he says then pursue prosperity in the city where I've called you, stop listening to deceivers, then I'll prosper you. Well prosperity was in our family Jim. And we flipped over and started to see that God said if you marry and have children he will prosper you. And so there was an apologetic for marriage. Young people today think that if they live apart they can do better financially.

All the data says no. In fact people do better financially if they do get married than any other living arrangement. And so we wanted to redefine what we believed prosperity was according to scripture. And that changed my focus completely to being in the home instead of out of the home. Right and again you've covered one and two. Three, discovering life's purpose. You're touching on that as well I think in that regard. Well we realized money was not our purpose.

For me it had been. Making a lot of money is not your purpose in life. Money is a tool to support your purpose. Your purpose is to glorify God.

Yeah that's a great position and you know I hope people are absorbing that. We're gonna again I apologize we're running through these but get the book. I mean that's the main point here. Number four was God's philosophy of money.

Quickly describe that. Well Ann had a philosophy of money coming from her frugal background. I had a philosophy of money coming from a risk orientation and we couldn't agree.

No way we could agree with each other. But we realized God has a philosophy of money. We decided to dedicate ourselves to knowing what the Bible said about money and that's what brought us into unity. Number five was respecting your spouse's personality. Certainly have described that how that evolved for the two of you. But I want to double down as a risk taker in marriage Chuck.

It's really critical that we get to know our spouse as best as we can and to respect the differences not attack the differences. Yeah for sure. Well we realized we were we were opposite in every possible way.

But that was good when we realized that that could be an asset that helped. Well I put Ann in charge of paying the bills Jim. She's the detail person. Yeah.

In fact there's a Harvard study that says if one of the people in the marriage is picky and detail oriented you'll do better financially. Like put them in charge. Well that's Ann. She's detail oriented and I started to bring her in and take advantage of how God wired her. We never are late on any bill now.

When I was in charge we were always late. Right. That's interesting. I mean go with the strengths of the couple right. Whoever does whatever best. Number six was create a unified financial plan.

What are the basic elements there. Well first of all we decided to make giving our highest financial priority Jim. We flipped over the idea of from how much could we accumulate how much could we give away in our lifetime.

And we have lived that out which is totally contrary to the way that we used to think about money. I felt like if you could trust God then it would work. He would help us make it work.

And he did. Yeah that's good. All right the final key to make marriage and finances work is establishing a process that ensures success.

And I would imagine you're starting from spiritual success and then working down. One of the things you implemented was called red light green light. And I love this. And I think every couple should do this because it's so simple but effective. Well and I'm going to describe some of it and I'd like you to describe a little bit of it and maybe tell the story of how we need examples. Well just real quickly what happened was when we were trying to make a financial decision we set a threshold of $250 or more if it involved a spending of $250 or greater then we would both need to agree. Well what would happen if Anne didn't agree with me then I would just debate her until she did.

And she just got so tired of that. So one day she said look let's use the stoplights. If I say red then it's no we're not going to do it. If either one of us say red if it's yellow we're going to wait and pray and just trust the Lord. If we're both green then we'll go ahead and do it.

Very simple but very effective. You know again these are all great things that we've talked about and your honesty has been wonderful especially your 20 year struggle to do better. I mean what if we as Christian couples had that attitude about every area of our life. You know Lord I'm giving this to you. Help my spouse. And then that revelation that comes at some point you being faithful in that prayer and then your spouse going wow I just you know the Lord just shared this with me.

What do you think. Oh I've been praying about that for 10 years. But in intimacy in finances in how we deal with in-laws how we deal with friends as a couple. Those are all the stressors and how how we get along as couples can stress us out rather than it being a thriving environment which is what we want couples to have. It becomes contentious and so many young couples today give up so early and I'm thinking of that couple that's in their late 20s or 30s and that wife is beginning to pray but she's withering like a flower that's dying and she's not willing to stick with it till God answers that prayer. And my heart breaks because we get those phone calls every day and our hope restored marriage intensive is filled with couples like that.

This is the last hope they have. And I would just encourage you as a couple if that's where you're at contact us. I mean this is a winsome way of how to get through financial difficulty but there are some serious solutions here that Chuck and Ann have described in their book Money Problems Marriage Solutions Seven Keys to Aligning Your Finances and Uniting Your Hearts.

I would say that's the Lord's call for all of us as married couples to unite our hearts and to behave in the ways that he would like us to behave. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for sharing the story. Thank you for having us. Thank you Jim. Thank you John. And we hope that you'll follow up and get a copy of this great book as Jim has said Money Problems Marriage Solutions.

We do have that. And when you get the book from Focus on the Family you're investing in our efforts to strengthen marriages and to save babies and to help parents raise thriving kids. It's all available at our website. The link is in the episode notes or call 800 the letter A in the word family. And if you're able to help focus on the family financially we sure would appreciate that either a monthly pledge or one time gift. If you can make a contribution today we'll send that book to you as our thank you for joining the support team. Once again our number 800 the letter A in the word family.

And on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. God wants true disciples ones that think like him talk like him walk like him disciples that bring Shalom to the chaos of this world. Pursue that path with the RVL Discipleship Series. Bible scholar Ray Vanderlon will give you the tools to understand the Bible more deeply and inspire you to be a passionate follower of Christ. Watch the first episode at rvldiscipleship.com