Helping Your Child Deal With Bullies

You just take back the power to be yourself. Isn't that what turning the other cheek is? It's not, okay, well go ahead and bully me some more.

It's you hit me once, go ahead with your thing, but you're not getting to me with this. I've got the power to be who I am. That's former teacher and author Nancy Rue on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller. John, right out of the gate here, I want to thank teachers for the job they do. We know it's a tough job, but we're grateful for everything. Teachers meant the world to me. I mean, so many teachers poured into my life, especially as a troubled kid without a mom and dad. They really helped shape so much of my characters.

Awesome. Our guest today has been there as a teacher and you're going to hear some of her gripping stories and I think a lot of us have dealt with those bullies that she'll talk about. I had a couple in my elementary school years, I think back to third grade, remember that? You remember that?

Well, I remember mine, not yours. But this kid, for whatever reason, he wanted to beat me up. I just was a target of opportunity, I guess, and I was faster than him, so he never really had the chance to catch me. You could outrun him.

Well, there you go. He probably could catch me now, but who knows? But I remember my sister caught wind of this and so she decided to stick up for me. She was probably 14 and I was, whatever, 9, and I remember running down Artesia Boulevard in Compton where we lived for that short period and she jumped out from behind this bush and decked that kid, stood over him and said, don't bother my brother anymore and he didn't. The problem I had is going to school and explaining why my sister had to stick up for me, but he was bigger and my sister was more his size, so I feel okay about it.

Well, going back, I mean, we're having some fun with it, but that can be pretty traumatizing and pretty difficult. Oh, you know you live in fear until that is settled, and thankfully my sister did get involved and settled it, but he was a mean sixth grader, sounds like anybody wants to know. But bullying can cut a lot deeper and have really significant scarring for the rest of your life and shape you in ways that are probably mostly unhealthy. Today we want to equip you and your child so that you can stand up and put an end to bullying. And Nancy Rue, as I said, is a former teacher. She had a lot of interactions with children, so she has some great insight. She's an author, she's written a number of novels for tweens, teens, and adults, and we're going to pick up the conversation with Nancy sharing some very interesting statistics. Hey, Nancy, I was taken aback by this stat that you provided us. 160,000 children on a given school day will stay home because they're being bullied.

Absolutely. That is breathtaking. Well, to put it in perspective, that's the population of Salem, Oregon, or Springfield, Massachusetts. That is sad. That's a whole town's worth of kids. Because you only see it as a parent, as a friend of a child, in onesies and twosies. You don't think of 160,000 children not going to school today because they're being bullied and they fear the environment they're in. And they're having physical responses to that.

Stomachaches, headaches, very real, you know, physiological issues because they're so terrified of the way they're going to be treated. Why, and I know you were a school teacher, that was a few years ago, but why did bullying crush your radar? Why have you picked up this cause and written about it, talked to teens and adolescents about it?

Why is this something you care about? The most amazing, for lack of a better word, stunning story, I think is what really tuned me into it. I was a theater teacher. So I tended to get the misfits and the kids who did and the fun people, the crazies, who didn't fit in anyplace else.

And so I made it a point to provide an atmosphere, an environment where they could be who they were and shine and have confidence. So my radar was out for other students who weren't in the program who didn't seem to have that niche. And there was one student whose name was Jake. I will never forget him. He wasn't one of my students, but he was best friends with one of mine. And Ming was Jake's only friend. And I would watch Jake in the hall, walking down the hall with a book in front of his face as if he were reading a book as he's going from class to class. So we didn't have to interact. One day I noticed the book was upside down.

So he clearly was not reading it. And I never asked, you know, just what was going on with Jake. I didn't approach him and say, so how you doing? His junior year, he committed suicide and his friend Ming was absolutely devastated. And we all sat down and talked about it.

And even at the time I didn't use the word bullying. I said, what, what was the deal? What happened to Jake? Was he always just, I don't know, strange? And it came out over the years that Jake was horribly bullied. When I asked my daughter who was in that group, what happened with Jake? She said, oh my goodness, they were terrible to him, especially the athletes and so forth, called him gay and just made fun of him all the time. And then when he came out to his father that, yes, he was gay, his father kicked him out of the house. At what age?

He was 16 years old and he hanged himself. And to this day, I still get this ache in my chest. Not that I could have saved him, but what if I had just said, Jake, what can I do for you?

How's it going? Invited him to just be part of the theater lunch group. And ever since then, it's just bothered me. You know, looking at it at that high level view, Nancy, what is it in us as human beings that if you act differently, I mean, you're a theater teacher and you said it and, you know, that area attracts a lot of different thinking people.

I had to do theater as a general ed in college and I thought the same thing because I was more on the athletic side. I'm thinking, wow, these people don't fit in with the rest of the world. But that is okay. God has made us in different ways and people think differently and act differently. But why are we so, it's so difficult for us to accept people who act differently and think differently. It's fear. It's fear. And you would not think of a bully as being someone who is afraid, but there is deep down in there a fear of somebody who's different. So they might actually be better than me. I don't know how to handle that. That calls who I am into question. So insecurity and insecurity and fear, bullying came close to your own family, right?

Or it actually impacted your family, your daughter. What happened there? My daughter was a little bit on the tomboyish side and to this day she dresses more in a Bohemian kind of style. And so it was the big sweatshirts and just kind of brush the hair and go off to school. And on the day that she was going to have her picture taken in the sixth grade, um, she decided she was going to dress up. And so she borrowed something of mine and she did that. I don't know if you remember this, but that hairstyle with the bangs stood straight.

Right. And she borrowed a little bit of my lip gloss. She looked adorable. She went to school and she got there early and the two girls, Heidi and Haley, I'll never forget their names, the shining twins, you know what I mean?

And they made this big thing about Mary Jean. Do you have any mirrors in your house? You know, how do you have mirrors in your house?

Yes. I have mirrors in my house. Do you have mirrors in your house? And finally, Mary Jean said, yes, I have mirrors in my house. And they said, well, you couldn't possibly have looked in one of them this morning or you wouldn't come to school looking like that on the day that she did her best to look. And that was the beginning of a full out campaign to make Mary Jean's life miserable for her whole sixth grade year. But she didn't confide that in me. And this is key for parents because she was ashamed. She thought that was something wrong with her, that these popular girls would come down. So she kind of hid that from you.

What are some of the signs that parents should be looking for? I mean, if you could roll that tape back or that time back, there were some red flags. What were they? Right. There was the wanting to sort of disappear.

So she went back to the big sweatshirts and the hair hanging in her face. She did have her own friends in a family where you're watching your child doesn't seem to have friends. And yet, you know, this is a perfectly great kid.

There's no reason why this should be happening. There's a lot of alone time in the bedroom. Being a little bit snappy at home changes in personality, changes in their schoolwork, sleep problems, stomach issues. And that's true for boys as well as for girls. They tend to be angry about it, and yet they can't do anything about it. So that frustration means at home where you're safe, you tend to lash out.

And if that's not your child's usual MO, it's worth looking into. How did you deal with it then? She didn't share that with you. What unfolded for her? When she finally did, of course, I wanted to go up to that school and ring some little shining twin necks, okay? I went into full-bore mother bear mode. And Mary Jean said, no, no, no, no, don't do that.

It will get worse. And so we did together try to work out how are you going to handle this. And by this time, it was the end of the school year. She decided to just stuff it out. The next year when she started seventh grade, she said, you know what?

This year, I'm going to find my thing and I'm going to make straight A's from here on out. And there was just over the summer, she just had this boost of confidence when she was apart from them. Right, but it sounds like she had great resolve.

She knew what she wanted to do. What about that child who doesn't have that well to go to? They're fragile emotionally. They're changing.

They're not confident. Sounds like your daughter had confidence, which is key. She did. And yet even that didn't prevent her from being bullied.

Or feel the pain. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But her response was solid.

It was. When you have a fragile child, oh my goodness, the first thing we want to do is take them out of the school, go up there, talk to that principal, talk to those parents. What we really need to do is try to empower them.

Let's make the first step trying to handle this yourself with me as your ally. Now, if there's physical bullying going on, all bets are off. Right. If it's true. Safety.

Right. Safety is absolutely key. Nancy, what's a good script then for me as a parent? If I've heeded the warning signs, I've seen oops, something's going on. I need to have that conversation.

How do I do that with a school where the teachers already have so much on them? We keep it at home first and we really ask our kids, okay, so something's going on here. You want to talk to me about this? I'm going to listen. I'm not going to interrupt. I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm not going to ask you any questions.

I just want you to tell me the story. You may have to put some duct tape over your mouth, but you need to just sit back and listen and let them tell you the story. But you're being serious, sir.

I am being serious. Do not interrupt. Don't interrupt. Just let them talk. As a wife, and I'm sure you guys are both spouses, how many times have you just said, I need to talk to you about something and then immediately your spouse has the answer and it's just infuriating because you really just need to vent?

That's what they need to do in a place that's safe. Then when you respond, this is toughest for fathers when you have a son who's being bullied. It's tough for fathers not to say, well, don't be a wuss.

Get in there. Give back that bully, you know, what he's given you. Don't let him do this to you. And then of course, the shame just multiplies because then it's my fault, isn't it? It's my fault that I'm being bullied. So the first thing with boys and girls we need to respond with is, you know, this isn't your fault, right?

This says nothing about you and everything about those kids who are giving you a bad time. You are a good person. We're going to help you with this.

We're going to be your ally. And Nancy, you touched on this. What are those next good steps? You don't want to put your child in worse danger. Exactly. So how do you come up with the plan to deal with it tomorrow?

I think we need to look to Jesus for this because the things that we say to our kids are not things that ever came out of Jesus's mouth. The first thing we want to say to them is we'll just ignore it. Ignoring it is not the answer, but you don't want to engage in it. Okay. So you need to say to don't, don't say, Oh yeah, well then you're a, you know, and then we've got the whole thing going or why are you doing this to me?

Why are you so mean to me? Because then you're feeding the bully. So we want to say, first of all, please don't feed the bullies. Okay. So what do you say? Instead of saying, don't ignore it, you simply say, but don't engage.

Okay. Help them to find one-liners like, yeah, I'm a geek and proud of it. And then you walk away. It's always the one-liner and then you walk away. My very favorite one is really, you just said that to me. I thought you were better than that.

Kind of put it bright back on. Because what are they going to say? No, I am not better than that. The second thing to tell them is do not let that bully know that this is getting to you. It's one of those fake it till you make it things that doesn't go on forever. That's just the first step. And so with the so not okay program, which is between girls, we have part of our code is save the tears. You just say, really?

You really think you can get to me with that? Then you go to the restroom with all the other girls and then you cry. But you do not let that girl see you cry because that gives her power.

Then of course, we don't want them to always be faking it. We want them to actually feel like they have the power to be themselves. And so if you have a child who's really fragile and vulnerable, the long-term plan is to what do you like to do?

What are you good at? Let's get you into something where you can build that confidence. So it really doesn't bother you as much. You notice that I'm not saying we need to change the bully because we really can't. That child does not have the power to do that.

And that's putting way too much pressure. You have to stop them. No, these are powerful kids. You just take back the power to be yourself. Isn't that what turning the other cheek is? It's not, okay, we'll go ahead and bully me some more.

It's you hit me once, go ahead with your thing, but you're not getting to me with this. I've got the power to be who I am. Nancy, in fact, you speak to young people all the time and you were at a Faith Girls event and I believe a young lady came up to you and that caught your eye. She did. One of the things we did at the Faith Girls events was give away a free book to every girl who was there with her mom, even if she couldn't, so that if she couldn't afford to buy one, she could still come through the line and get one signed. And that was part of the deal is that at the end, every girl gets to come by and have a book signed. And sometimes you're talking about five or 600 girls. Oh, that will take a long time.

It does. And, but it's just that, you know, just that moment. Oh, and they're so vulnerable.

Oh, and some of them can hardly speak. You would think that I was, you know, Garth Brooks for crying out loud. So one girl I recall, she had that hang dog look, you know, the hair hanging down. She didn't want to make eye contact. Her mom said, well, go ahead, tell her your name. So I said, what year are you?

And I'm in middle school. I said, how's that going for you? And she just broke down. It's not good. It's not good. And she was just the typical target for no other reason than that.

She wasn't Susie trendy on trend was not her favorite prepositional phrase, you know, and you could see that there was so much in there and she was really hurting. So I said, you know what, forget those girls who are being mean to you. You don't need them. Okay. Let's work on you. You find out what makes you tick, what makes you awesome. And you just focus on that. And this is one time when I will say, just pretend that they don't exist.

You just work on you. And so the next year was a different town in Michigan. One of the close by towns, I think one was grand Rapids. One was, you know, Plymouth or something. And this girl comes through the line. And of course, I met a lot of girls. So there was no way I was going to remember names, but she had this look like I have got something I want to say to you.

And actually remembered the mom. And she said, I have to tell you something. She said this whole last year, after you talked to me last year, that's what I did. And now I have all these friends. And she said, it turned me around. It's all it took was one conversation of saying, be who you are, in a society that says, Oh, no, there's only one way you can be.

That's a beautiful picture. And what you're giving that girl and what all of us as parents and adults, you know, our kids friends, if they need it, is confidence. And that hopefully is rooted in Christ. I love that statement.

Our confidence is in the Lord. And if you can get a child moving in that direction, then they're not looking for those other external, exactly accolades and things. And we have to make that concrete for them that the whole, Jesus did not say ignore it. Jesus did not say, hit back.

That's the old eye for an eye, tooth for tooth. Jesus did not say hate that girl for the rest of your life. Because then we get into the forgiveness part of the whole thing, which really does change things. If we're saying to our kids now, I know you, we don't want you to be best friends with these kids, or even try to be their friends. They're not people you want to be friends with. But hating them and wanting revenge and wanting to get back at them is not a Jesus thing.

And it's not going to help this at all. Because if we can talk about why, why do these kids do this? Something's going on in there. They're not just mean from birth. I've never seen a mean baby. And if we can talk to them about, let's pray that, you know, they'll get better, they'll heal.

Let's not wish them any harm. It does change the dynamic deep inside. Because that, of course, is, that's Jesus. And it's so good.

And I like tying it. If you think about it, that's exactly what Jesus did. He gave the one liners to the Pharisees. Okay, I'll answer that if you can answer me this. And then walk away.

That is really interesting. He never argued with them, didn't get into dialogues and debates. He just said something profound, bam.

This is how it is and walk away. Made them think about what they were doing. Exactly. As opposed to owning their shame.

And of course, they got worse, right? And bullies will temporarily get worse, because they're not going to like the fact that they're not winning. When that line has been crossed, we didn't address it fully. When should a parent head to the school to talk to the principal or the teachers?

And how do you go about doing that? That's a good question. I think the minute there's any sign that there's anything physical going on. So if you're seeing scratches and bruises and that are unexplained, or your child is saying, well, yeah, he did push me, shoved me and hit me in the stomach.

If belongings are missing, or grades have gone completely down the tubes, and your child is depressed, and we're talking in the room crying, sleep is not happening, appetite has fallen off, just don't want to do anything. They're being traumatized. They're being traumatized. This is PTSD that we're talking about.

Right. Then it is not just for your own child's benefit, but for every other kid at that school that this needs to be addressed. And what we really need to do is say, are there any other kids that are being bullied?

Because there is safety in numbers. And if we can bring in not just as a full frontal attack on the administration, but here's a group of concerned parents, if we can keep our cool, and we can simply say, here is the problem, how can we work together to solve this problem? And we need to request that the proximity of that bully or those bullies to our child be limited. There are teachers who won't move kids in the classroom.

You're just going to need to work it out. You know, you kids, especially girls, you girls and your drama. If girls are coming to the teacher, and if boys are coming to the teacher, then you know it's really a thing, they need to be paid attention to.

And it's, to me, that's the real shame, is that we're not believing our kids. Kids do not like to tattle. And when you say, okay, report alert, which means this is the time when we need to go to a grown-up, they go, I don't want to tattle. So we need to make this distinction. Tattling is done to get somebody else in trouble. Reporting is done to get somebody out of trouble. Oh, that is excellent.

I like that. Okay, so when the teacher has been told and nothing's being done, then yes, it's the administration we need to go to, and we need to have clear requests. Rather than you need to do something about this, it's what I would like to see is for my child not to have to sit next to these kids. I would really like for my child not to be put in a group, you know, to work. I would really like for someone on the playground or in the PE class, in the locker room where these things happen, to just be monitoring the situation. Because it really shouldn't be up to my child who's being victimized to solve this problem.

That just doesn't make any sense. Well, and I so appreciate that idea that as adults we tend to think, well, this is what happened when I grew up. This is part of growing up.

You just got to thicken up your skin and go for it. That's not a good excuse for adults. It is not. And whenever I have a group of parents in a room, I will say, raise your hand if you remember learning about fractions. Maybe a couple hands go up. Who was your fifth grade teacher? They're muttering to each other and say, who remembers the name of the kid that bullied you? Bam, everybody's hanging up. Everybody remembers that. And then I will say, how many of you were affected by that for quite some time? You would be amazed. And the way they say those names, oh yeah, it was Linda Sharer.

Oh yeah, you can just hear it still in there. I have seen moms get tears in their eyes. Recently, a writer friend of mine was looking for an agent because he's written a book for boys about bullying and he's shopping it around. And this agent said, I'm sorry, I just can't take this on because I was bullied so badly as a kid. I don't even think I want to be in proximity to. Oh my goodness. Yeah, we're talking about in that sad instead of, you know what?

Yes, I would really like to get this book out there. He's still being intimidated. Nancy, we can't end the program without talking about Linda, who you just, that fictional person you just mentioned. What if you're the parent of the bully? That's a tough one.

That's really a tough one. But there are warning signs, first of all, that your child is a bully. Don't wait until somebody complains because then you are on the defensive, right? So the first thing I would urge parents to do is look at your kids and be around when they're with their friends. It's a little bit harder when they're teenagers, but you know, there are opportunities and watch how they treat the people they call friends because if they're sniping at each other and your daughter is always the one that says, well, then go home. If we're not going to do it my way, you know, there's a click going on. You watch your son and how maybe he's got his cronies that follow along.

Those are some warning signs. If your child at the dinner table has nothing kind to say about anyone, look at that dinner table, by the way, and see what kind of example you're all setting. One of the things I try to do is to ask my kids at the beginning of every school year and remind them throughout the school year to befriend people that don't have friends, you know, sit with somebody at lunch that is all alone. And that's part of your faith expression.

That's what Christ would want you to do at this age. It's something you can do and go out of your way to look for somebody who's an outsider. And, you know, you can make a profound difference that way because 30% of kids are either bullied or are bullies, which leaves 70% of the kids who are watching it happen and they don't know what to do. They're the bystanders. And those kids are afraid they're going to become the target or they get it in their minds, then we're going to form a group.

It's going to be like the Revenge of the Nerds or something. It's kind of that group thing. And it's like we have to learn how to break out for the right reasons and not think that way.

Nancy, Roo, it has been great. To talk with you about this. You know, I'm reminded of 2 Timothy 1 7 for God gave us a spirit, not a fear, but a power and love and self-control. And that's what you have alluded to today. The one liner, the coaching of your child, go ahead and role play.

Let them be the bully, play the part, respond with the right words. Those are all really good things to do. And I so appreciate the time with you and to be able to discuss this really important topic. Thanks. Well, thank you. And I appreciate you taking this issue so seriously. And it's an honor to be here. And I hope we've helped some parents today.

We heard some great wisdom from Nancy Roo today, and this is focused on the family with Jim Dilly. I trust that she did help you become aware of the scope of bullying and why it's an issue and also equipped you with some practical steps you can take for you and your child to stand up and put a stop to it. John, I think it's easy to think that maybe bullying today wasn't what it used to be, you know, but I think it's pretty similar. The only difference now is you have social media that can add weight to it, especially for girls. I think there's a lot more bullying that occurs for girls today than maybe what occurred 40 years ago. But my goodness, I mean, it all has tremendous consequences for us emotionally, spiritually and physically sometimes. And here focused on the family, we want to help you through the ups and downs of the parenting battles. And this is one that many parents encounter, and that's why we're covering it. We do feel strongly about putting an end to bullying and helping equip you as a parent with resources like an audio collection of some of our top episodes to help encourage you and your child. In this free collection, you'll hear more on the topic of bullying, as well as ways to nurture your child's purpose and passion, popular guests like Dr. Kathy Cook, Dr. Kevin Lehman, who deliver very practical help and hope as you seek to develop your child's sense of worth and identity in Christ, which is critical.

And again, this is absolutely free. Go to the website. You'll find the details in the show notes. And while you're at the site, be sure to check out our newly revised Thriving Student podcast. We have a new season and you can kick off the new school year by learning how you can help your child succeed more effectively. And tomorrow, Dr. Greg Jantz takes a look at the impact that trauma can have in your life and the ways that you can heal from it. Trauma ignored creates more trauma later.

Yeah. It's always worth walking through it. On behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Dailey. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Watch the first episode at RVL Discipleship.com.