Your marriage can be healed. A hope-restored marriage-intensive from focus on the family can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days. We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage.
Discover more at hoperestored.com. That's hoperestored.com. The thing I've learned too is when I'm reacting to my children out of fear. That's my issue, not theirs. You know what I mean?
Like, if my daughter comes home and she gets a C on a test, and I freak out. It's probably because I believe that she needs to have a seat. with the intelligent people. And that's an idol. That's Dr.
Heather Holliman, and she joins us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Now, if you're parenting a middle schooler or you remember what it felt like to be in middle school and wonder, where do I belong? This is a conversation for you. I'm John Fuller. Yeah, that's the biggest no-brainer in the world. Middle school can be challenging.
I mean, middle school, were you terrified? Yes. I was terrified. I was overwhelmed. I mean, you don't know much.
You're putting things on backward that you'd never put on before. It's PE. It's all that stuff. You got to go to multiple classes and teachers. And that's not the social context of what kids are facing today with smartphones and, you know, being acceptable, all the stuff that really comes out in such a big way in middle school.
I'm glad we only do it once. That's kind of a gift, isn't it? But today we do want to talk to you about how to help your middle schooler, especially those girls who just are so vulnerable to those outside forces. And it's not their fault. It's part of growth and maturity.
You got to learn who you are. And so often you learn that from your environment. And then you have to learn who you are inside. What people are saying to you or taunting you with or teasing you. And we're going to have a good discussion today.
Yeah, for Christian parents, that identity in Christ for our child is crucial. And Dr. Heather Holliman is really positioned well to help us think this through. She's an associate teaching professor at Penn State and a speaker and an author, and she's written a number of books. She's a very popular guest here at the ministry.
We're talking today about a series of books for middle school girls. It's the Alita Brown series. And you can learn more about Heather and all the things she does and her other books. And this specific series for middle school girls at our website. Just stop by the show notes for the links.
Heather, welcome back to Focus.
So good to have you. I'm so excited to be here. This is going to be a great conversation.
Okay, here is the loaded question right out of the gate. If you're a college professor, I've talked to many Christian college professors, and they'll say, Give some story of a young man or young woman that is a little out of control in the classroom in some way. And I'll say, wow, what?
So you're seeing the product of a Christian home in maybe not so healthy a context sometimes. And they just go, yeah. And it's interesting for us as parents. You know, when your children go off to college, yeah, those college professors are seeing the product of everybody's hard work, right? That's right, that's right.
And, you know, I think the goal even here at Focus is to help parents to do the best job they can do.
So when that child shows up in your classroom, that's right, they're, you know, not just a students, they're good academically, but they're people of good character. They're people of good character. Yes. Speak to that moment when you're kind of assessing your class in the fall, the first week or two. Do you see that distinction?
I do. And sometimes I can tell parents who've raised their children to be curious, to be great conversationalists, to be polite, and to be grateful. It is a huge difference. Those students really shine. They tend to be really successful.
Students who write thank-you notes, students who will ask me questions rooted in curiosity, I love those, and I can tell. I'll say, hey, when you grew up, or did your parents teach you how to have a really good conversation and make a warm connection? That's so good.
So I love those. Those are great skills. Here's a Scary thought. What if the professors the first semester gave the parents a grade on their students? Oh, wow.
Think of that. Yes. And your ability to do that. But you know, in a serious way, those daughters that show up that really aren't that grounded in a strong faith. Right.
You know, maybe we've trusted the church will do that through Sunday school or whatever. Whatever reason, what kinds of things do they display and what kind of things are they facing because of that? Lack of better grounding in their faith.
Well, at least at Penn State, one of the things I see, and things that I actually research, are you see people that have a lack of purpose. And they also have profound loneliness and anxiety because they don't know where their footing is. They don't have that identity. They're not sure how to build community. I see those things a lot.
So, with the book series you've done, Alita Brown, you know, this is, I'm sure, an amalgamation of real true life experience and other things. But what inspired you to create? that character and then how does it reflect the real struggles that young girls face today?
Well, in 2015, I wrote the book Seated with Christ, Living Freely in a Culture of Comparison. And this was a book that was a profound moment for me, rooted in Ephesians 2. It changed my life forever. And so I went all around helping women get free from jealousy and comparison because they knew they were already seated at the best table with Jesus from Ephesians. How did you do that?
Well, what happened was I'm telling women, look, your fight for a seat at the table probably began in seventh grade. Wow, yeah. And women would burst into tears. Tears and they'd say, I remember the exact moment when I didn't have a seat at the popular table. Men, too.
And so I was teaching for about 10 years on this idea of having your seat at the table because Ephesians 2:6 says, and God raised us up with Christ and seated us. With Christ in the heavenly realms. And I was teaching women this, and so many people said: if I had just known this. When I was 13 years old, that I'm already seated at the best table with Jesus. It would have healed that wound of rejection from the middle school lunch table.
So, my acquisitions editor, Judy Dungan, said, We really need to write Seated with Christ for a middle-grade audience. And it was actually my youngest daughter said, Mom, you can't write a Bible study, don't make it nonfiction. No little girl is gonna carry a book around that says, I'm excluded, I'm jealous. Good coaching.
So, my daughter said, What if you fictionalized it?
So, that's where this seat saved began. And it's about a little girl who starts seventh grade and realizes she doesn't have a seat at the popular table. It's based on my own experience, my daughter's experience. It's sort of a quintessential experience all over the world when you're 13. You remember the day you didn't have a seat with a popular girl.
Let me ask you before we go deeper into the book series, why is it so universal? Is it a point of growth? Is it so common that when you're 13, 14, it's just Awkward. Yes. Your life is awkward.
Your body is awkward. You don't know who you are really yet. Yes. It has to do with two factors, just in terms of developmental psychology. You know, you're turning 13, you go through, it's this adolescence period, but it is also the idea coming from elementary school.
You eat lunch with your class. It's not quite as stressful finding where you belong. It's that phenomenon of changing classes. You're going into the lunchroom. You don't know where to sit.
But even homeschool children, children who don't have a lunchroom experience, know, okay, there's a popular group, but I'm not invited. It's just, it has to do with where they are in that stage of development. Right around 13. Do you remember being in seventh grade? Yeah, those.
I don't want to go to those stories. The wound is deep. It is. You can ask people. Usually everyone has a story of a table they weren't invited to.
And I think in the guy context, today we're talking with you about girls, but the guy context is all built around physical. Ability. You know, I remember standing in a seventh-grade PE class, and this guy just nailed me. I was not looking for this. And he was talking about how boys become in and how they fill out.
And he was a rather hefty guy, a swimmer. And he clobbered me in the sternum while I was looking away, standing in a line. I mean, he cracked my sternum. And then he turned to the guy next to him and said, see, he's not filled out like us yet. No, you're right.
And actually, young boys do read The Seat Saved. I get letters from them. Is that right? They do. There is a primary female character, but there are boys that are going through their own struggles in the book.
But they tell me the young boy readers say it's all about how tall you are for them and if they make the team. Because seventh grade is usually when you start the tryouts, or at least in where we are in state college, that's where you're going to make the soccer team, the football team, the volleyball team. And that sense of rejection, they carry it with them their whole life. It's so true. The deeper stuff, though, is understanding how to communicate, especially as a parent, how do we build our Girls, up?
What are the words that we need to say that give them a sense of identity and purpose and that it's real to them? You know, so often you can discount it as a seventh grader. Oh, dad has to say that, or mom has to say that, right? That's right. I'm just thinking of those things.
But sometimes, as parents, we don't have a clear focus. On what is it I need to do to strengthen my daughter at this time of awkwardness, like building her confidence and building her resilience in the face of rejection, which most seventh, eighth graders are going to face.
So, how do you instruct a parent to be mindful of those things and then communicate them effectively?
Well, one of the most powerful things you can do with, think about eight to twelve-year-old girls, 13-year-olds, is bring them to God's Word. Ephesians 2 is the most powerful passage of scripture for a young person to understand. And my youngest daughter and my oldest daughter, when they were 12, I taught them, here's what Ephesians 2 says about you. And Ephesians 2, I think, if you're going to memorize any chapter of the entire Bible, if it's not Romans 8, it should be Ephesians 2. And when my daughter experienced her own lunchroom rejection, I just read that passage to her.
I said, Look, it talks about how much God loves you, that He seeded you. With Christ in the heavenly realms. And I said, It's really hard to imagine. Paul is most likely in a Roman prison. And he tells us again in Colossians, like, fix your mind there.
You're seated at the greatest table with the greatest king. I used King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table with her. I said, Look, you just got to picture it. I don't know what we're supposed to picture, but that's what Paul says to do. And it's a past tense verb.
You know, I'm a grammar expert. I was obsessed with this idea.
So I said to my girls, I said, When you walk into the lunchroom, I want you to be able to say, I'm already seated at the best table with Jesus. He chose me for his table. And then you can kind of look around and invite people who maybe don't have a seat to come to the table.
So that really mattered. Just using little phrases like, you're already seated at the greatest table with the greatest king. It was so powerful for my one of my daughters that she even wore a necklace for years, even in her high school graduation picture that said seated on it as her core identity. Wow. That she is seated.
And that matters because you go through rejection all your life, high school, college, it doesn't end.
So, the other thing you can do as a parent is use what we call family mottos, even things that rhyme. Our favorite family motto is: Every rejection is God's protection. It's deeply theological. You have to believe in God's sovereignty, His goodness.
So bring them to Ephesians 2. In my book, I have an older mentor that speaks into that. And that is helpful because sometimes parents need another community member, maybe an older person in the church. I really believe in the power of mentorship. It can't just be the parents always speaking into the lives of teenagers.
So if you're someone that's older, take a younger person out to coffee, and you can be the one that introduces them as well as the parents. Dr. Heather Holliman is our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And we're talking about this really cool series of books for middle school girls, ages maybe 10 to 16. Heather?
Well, it's designed for 8 to 12 year olds, but a lot of older girls love it, younger girls read it.
So, yeah.
So, get a copy of the whole series, the Alita Brown series, from us here at Focus on the Family. Go through with your daughter, help her understand some of these concepts, and just drive home. Her identity in Christ. Get the book from us here at the ministry when you click the link in the show notes or call 800 the letter A and the word family. Heather, again, I didn't raise girls.
I have two boys, so it's always fascinating to me to talk to parents like you two that had girls. But in that context, I probably have some. Stereotyping in my head. I mean, I just haven't had the experience. But I would think young girls, that popularity thing, huge.
Acceptance thing. I think I'm pretty good at coaching a son in that direction. But even with what you're saying, one of your daughters really getting it, having a seat at the table. For the parent that maybe has done something like that, but that daughter has not grabbed on to that, you know, and they're still struggling with the popularity problem being accepted. It's such a longing in the heart of that girl.
How do you begin to try different things to make sure that they're not going to find a different solution for that longing in their heart?
Well, one thing I wanted to address in the book is what happens when you do get a seat at the popular table. And what my character learns is it's not what she thought it was. She'd actually rather be with the nature club. You know, she'd rather be with the people that are out looking at mushrooms in the Pennsylvania forest or something.
So it's about understanding how God made you. And there's kind of like a quirkiness to her, and she knows she's not popular, but she ends up finding great friends. And she doesn't enjoy what the popular girls are doing. And so there's that moment. where you really get to talk to your daughter, okay, what would it mean for you to be with the popular girls?
What do you think it's going to provide for you? And then in the third book of the series, the character actually does become popular. And so she has to deal with how stressful it is, how it's not what she thought. I appreciate that. And Heather, we...
We had three girls after two boys.
So, when the girls came, I was a little blindsided because some of the emotions they experienced, and they came out oftentimes in behaviors that I read as behavioral and performance, not emotional at their roots.
So, give us some practical tips how to deal with. The outburst or the you know the huffy walk away and slam the door. This applies some of that this applies to both boys and girls, but girls particularly, how do we show up in those moments? And what's a good way to demonstrate that unconditional love that God has for them that I desperately want to give them? But oh my goodness.
Well, the best advice I ever received was to stay really calm. You guys have heard it, that be the non-anxious presence. And Ash and I, my husband Ashley, we've learned to just ask really good questions and stay curious and not be impacted by someone's big emotions. In fact, some of them, I sort of appreciate the passion and the intensity of that age group. And just to ask good questions, like, tell me what your biggest stressor is this week.
Like, tell me what's, but you have to phrase the question in a way that shows that you're really curious, you're ready to listen. That's why Ash and I care so much about helping people have better conversations in their family.
So the other thing I recommend, and I know you may have wanted to talk about this, is helping young girls develop. A journaling practice. That's a good idea. I can't wait to tell you all I've learned about helping young people. It's not a diary, it's sort of a journaling practice that helps develop their spiritual life, and it's the best mental health practice for anxiety and big emotions.
We're here. Why don't we just get to it? Do you want to do it?
Okay, please. Because I actually shot a picture of the prep that outlined that because I wanted to share it with my boys. Oh, it's been life-changing for me. It's a journal practice that I've been doing for the last 40 years. It's rooted actually in social science research and mental health practices.
You teach young people to begin with five things they're thankful for. They can do this in five minutes. Five things they're thankful for. The gratitude research is undisputable now about how good it is for your brain. And then you have them write down five things they're worried about, five things they want the Lord to help them with.
And what you're doing is helping them connect with the presence of God who can daily bear their burdens, who's actively involved in caring for them. them and cares about their well-being. But that way they get it in the journal. Here are five things I'm stressed about.
So for me, it was my math test or I'm nervous about this boy, whatever it is. And then you write down five people that you're praying for that you want to bless or maybe needs a blessing.
So for a 12-year-old girl to take her eyes off herself and think about other people is profound. And then the journal I designed, it's called the Sit and Saver Journal that pairs with the second book. It's really about how to then record some things you're learning.
So it's not like you're writing long sentences. You're just taking a moment to begin a reflective practice. And I really believe in the power of reflective journaling. It's again, it's not a diary. Nobody's writing long entries, but you're just kind of writing down things that you need.
And what I love is. I think the greatest way to grow a child's faith, what I actually learned from Focus on the Family, was to keep a prayer journal, to see divine activity in your life. God heard. And you know, you said something I wanted to follow up. with you on is that's anxiety.
You know, you it's C D C Center for Disease Control. There's so much research right now. And you're in it in the college setting. I mean, C D C, the last report I saw, 15 to 25 year olds, 50 percent Of that group, and I did the math, it's like seven million children in that age group, yes, who are. Depressed or have anxiety or suicidal thoughts.
From your perspective, seeing and being so close to that age group, what is happening to our kids? I mean, I'm obviously not an expert in the psychology world, but I think it has a lot to do with the immediacy of the phone, the non-stop information. It's this over-stimulation that they can't do anything about. They know everything bad going on, but they can't do anything about it.
So it's just this rumination of things. I also think the loneliness epidemic helps create that anxious sense of, I don't know how to talk to people, I don't know how to be bonded to people. I also think we've stopped letting kids be out in nature. There's a lot of factors, but I would say the best intervention for that, I believe, is things like the journal, things like getting, you know, trying to get your kids out in nature. Those are things that calm the nervous system down.
Yeah, it's not complicated. Right. And maybe talking about reducing, especially when that child is in junior high, kind of reducing FaceTime and with screens and such. Right. Try to control that so their appetite's not out of control.
Right. That's why I love that writing middle grade books, getting kids reading again. It's so calming and joyful just that they can read and then talk to you about what they're reading. It's wonderful. It's so true.
The thing I've learned, too, is when I'm reacting to my children out of fear. That's my issue, not theirs. You know what I mean? Like, if my daughter comes home and she gets a C on a test and I freak out. It's probably because I believe that she needs to have a seat.
With the intelligent people, and that's an idol.
So, one thing I love about the whole seated with Christ idea is, even as I got older, I fought for a seat at the table. I thought I have to be attractive, I have to be, I call it the three A's: achievement, affluence, and appearance. If I am attractive, wealthy, and high achieving, I will have a seat at the table.
So, I'm able to tell my girls, this is my issue. You, you are living the life God wants you to live. You do not have to achieve to have a seat at the table. That set our family free. Wow.
I mean, and I speak, you know, to all different churches and different cultures, and I can usually tell. If the community there values achievement or values the pursuit of wealth, because that's what they want most for their children, rather than this kind of intimacy with Jesus where you're living out the end of Ephesians 2, which says that he has good works prepared in advance for you to do. It's a stronghold in my life. I had to be separate from it. I appreciate that, but you think of those rich zip codes and the things that those kids are struggling with.
It's because we as parents are missing the core things they need. Right. They're going to have the nice car, maybe the beamer to drive to high school. Right. All those things are in and of themselves not evil, but it's the heart.
That we as parents have to develop. Right at the end here, Heather, I'm thinking of the mom listening and going, wow. Yeah, I haven't done that well. I haven't done this well. How does she like recalibrate and and Really, get an idea of what are the good things I need to be connected with.
with my daughter.
Well, the best thing you can do as a mom is be Really honest about your own experience with Ephesians 2 because you can pass on to your daughter things that Jesus is teaching you about having a seat at the table. That's the best thing where you're just sharing your own life. Here's what Jesus is teaching me. That's what her mentor does. And, you know, with that age group, it is a lot about jealousy.
It is a lot about your appearance. And so just tell your daughter how the Lord has helped you in your own journey. And that's the best thing you can do. But a little girl, a 12-year-old, is not too young to understand Ephesians 2. Yeah, it's a beautiful passage.
And ask her, say, what do you think it means that God raised us up and seated us with Jesus? Do you think that makes a difference in your life when you picture yourself there like Paul did? And the final quote in the book that a lot of readers love comes from the Hayden Planetarium. And it just says this: All seats provide equal viewing of the universe. No matter where you sit, you won't miss any part of the show.
So, even and Paul wrote that in, you know, Paul wrote Ephesians 2 in prison.
So, if you're jealous of your rich friends or you're jealous because your best friend is really beautiful and you don't feel attractive, just remember you're seated at the best table with Jesus. All seats provide equal viewing of the universe. You're not going to miss anything. And I love the verse from Psalm 34: that those who look to him are radiant. Their faces are never covered with shame.
You can tell your daughter she is radiant. She never has to worry about her appearance. I love that verse. And that appears in the second and third book of this series. And it's so affirming, which is what a young girl needs so much.
Heather, you bring it every time you're with us. I know many moms and dads feel inspired by your message to help nurture their daughter's identity in Christ. And just let me say thank you for being with us. Also, let me turn to you, our listener. Focus on the family is here to help you and your family to thrive in Christ.
That's our mission. We want to equip you, mom and dad, as you're raising the future generation. We have a whole library of content for you, articles, programs like this one, video series, you name it. Our parenting team works tirelessly to stay ahead of trends and create the content you need to have as a parent. A great way to encourage your daughter is with a subscription to Brio magazine.
It's packed with inspiring faith-based articles and practical advice on culturally relevant topics. But we're always sensitive to the parents, so trust it. We also have Heather Holloman's Alita Brown book series, which includes three books, This Seat Saved, The Disappearing Seat, and The Elite Seat. A fourth one is coming later this year, but we have those three books in a bundle that you can get started on. And I can't think of a better way for a moment.
mom or dad to help their daughter discover who she is in Christ than read these books, which will reinforce that. And the best part is then if you read them together, you can discuss the themes of identity and being sent by God and to encourage your daughter to share her faith with her friends. When you give a gift of any amount, we'll send you that bundle as our way of saying thank you for supporting the ministry and doing ministry through focus on the family. Let me share this note from Emily, who wrote in and told us this. I am a 41-year-old, soon-to-be first-time mom who is just beginning to explore my identity in Christ and develop a deeper hunger for God's word.
That is great. My husband and I have been married for two years, and we're preparing to welcome our first child. We're eager to learn how to build a strong Christian home as we grow together in faith. Focus on the Family feels like a wonderful place to begin that journey, and I'm excited to explore the resources your ministry offers. Oh, that is really wonderful to hear.
Well, it's hitting the bullseye. That's what we're trying to do. And Emily, we're happy you discovered Focus on the Family. Just let us know how we can best help you. People can call.
You can text, write, do whatever, however you can get in touch with us. Go to the website, and we have ways to hear from you in that way, too. When you donate to Focus on the Family, you're helping folks like Emily and many, many others strengthen their marriage and raise their children in positive, healthy ways. But this kind of ministry is only possible because of support from friends like you. You can provide that much-needed help when you do your ministry through Focus on the Family.
So please donate today. Yeah, our number is 800, the letter A and the word family. 800-232-6459. Donate and get your bundle of those Alita Brown books and also learn more about our Brio magazine. And we've got all the details about these and other resources in the show notes.
And coming up next time, a conversation with Olympic champion figure skater Scott Hamilton. I was sick, I didn't grow, I was the smallest and the weakest, I was this, I was that, I was a loser, I'd fallen all these times, I'd embarrassed myself. But what I started to figure out was that every single one of those Failures was a spectacular learning opportunity. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Sprinkle some love into your marriage this month with the Loving Well podcast from Focus on the Family. I'm Aaron Smalley, and I host the podcast with my husband, Dr. Greg Smalley, and our good friend, John Fuller. We chat about how to put Christ at the center of your relationship, deepen your love, and have a marriage that truly thrives. Listen today at focusonthefamily.com/slash lovingwell or wherever you get your podcasts.
